Guild Wars 2

truthishly.9513:

In the past two or three days, I have had an abysmal win-loss rate. Up until then, I managed to hover between 48-52%, which I assumed was fairly normal, given that I queue solo most of the time. Since the leaderboard was reset on Saturday, I am now 28-44. I know I haven’t gotten suddenly much worse than I was before, but I have felt overmatched significantly more often than before, and I’m wondering if the reset or something else affected my MMR, or if there was some kind of change to MMR itself. I did recently rank up to bear, I’m not sure if that would have an impact, but I’m getting increasingly frustrated with imbalanced matches which, for whatever reason over the past few days, have seemed overwhelmingly in the opposing team’s favor. I don’t play for leaderboards or reward tracks or increasing rank. I just want to have fun, evenly matched fights that, even in a loss, I can at least learn something from, and it’s pretty hard to do when your team is getting rekt right from the start seven out of every ten matches. Beginning to feel like all really is vain…

Sorry for the delay, I’ve had your game history up all day just waiting for me to respond.

I don’t believe your issue is premades. Of the 72 games you played, only three had you stacked against premades (11111 vs 311, 11111 vs 311, 2111 vs 32). Every other instance involving premades also had your team with an equivalent premade.

I’m at a loss to explain your losses. I’ll keep an eye on your account over the next few days to see if anything stands out.

Matchmaking does not know about or operate according to win/loss streaks or account averages.

There may be some merit to adding logic to bust up streaks, but it isn’t a planned feature afaik.

Sorry for the delayed start. I had technical problems last night and couldn’t do the work as scheduled.

Both leaderboards have been cleared and new data should begin being submitted in less than 4 minutes at 2:30 PM PST.

No. I’ll be sure a notice is posted when we enable thing.

I don’t know if and when that will happen though now that we allow profession swapping.

William C.6195:

Out of interest, what does “did not have the UI resources” mean? Did you run out of pixies making pixels?

The developers needed were busy working on things that had higher priorities, and with what time they could spare they would not have finished in time.

We do plan to show the odds of winning as part of the final ladder when it’s released. We simply did not have the UI resources to get anything out in time for the test ladder.

Solstice.1097:

tichorum.2415:

So we had a test season. Now we’re having an “off-season”. What exactly is the difference?

the test season had rewards. the off-season is just a leaderboard for our own enjoyment (those of us who care).

at least that’s my take

Basically this. After we look at the data we may change some things, without notice, just to watch how the resulting data changes.

Gob.3964:

With there being a grace period now, what’s keeping us from queueing from open world?

The two aren’t really related. We’ve been talking about queuing outside the lobby, but I’m not sure if or when we may change that.

brannigan.9831:

Surely you will be making changes to the rules and scoring at some point if you don’t want this to continue to be a bad joke. You can’t have people having to play 800 ranked matches in a month just to be able to have a decent chance of getting in the top 20-50 of the leaderboard. I don’t consider myself more then an average player that tries to play the right way but I got high enough on the leaderboard to consistently get a lot of matches with some of the clown shoes that grinded there way to the top 100 by playing an over-whelming amount of games and they were some of the worst players I have ever been forced to play with quite a few of them.

Yes, it is very likely we will be making changes and running another test season.

I’m busy crunching numbers right now and writing a ladder simulator so we can see what the results would have been with different rules. We won’t be making any changes until this is done and the team has time to go over possibilities.

I have no timetable for you.

Microsoft Xp.9438:

For the professions swapping does the 1 min timer count for the time allotted before the match? Some of us are still running old O.S. =D and it takes a lil longer then a min to swap but typically I can be in at match start or slightly before.

Honestly, the back-end server that powers matchmaking also tracks disconnect time but is ignorant about the game’s actual state. It doesn’t know when the game goes from that ready-pending state to actually playing. We could add that, or we could have it implied through other data sent from the game server to the back-end, so I guess it doesn’t really matter.

I’ll run it by the team about not counting disconnection time until the game starts.

I’ll double check this with Josh.

Edit: It looks like the original blog post says 20, but I’ll still follow up on this.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-improvements-to-pvp-and-the-ladder-test-season/

Solstice.1097:

And to clarify, the grace period starts from loading into the map, correct? The ‘waiting for players’ segment is not exempt?

The time it takes you to connect the first time will not be included in the cumulative disconnection time. However, if you haven’t connected to the game at all within 1 minute grace period you will be marked as a deserter.

If you disconnect at any point, include the “waiting for players” segment, it will be included in the cumulative disconnection time.

klarkc.3754:

The LB will be reseted?

Yes. I will add that to the post.

Solstice.1097:

And no penalty for profession swapping either? (assuming it doesn’t take you more than 1 minute to log back in) ?

Profession swapping is allowed, with no penalties. This isn’t a policy change, we just don’t feel we can enforce it at a quality level we are comfortable right now. No ETA on its return.

Solstice.1097:

Also, is the 1 minute cumulative or consecutive? Example someone swaps toons and it takes them 35 seconds, then they swap in match again later and it takes them 35 seconds. Deserter?

Cumulative. One disconnect for 1 minute is treated the same as 3 disconnects that are 20 seconds long.

We will be putting the ranked arena into off-season ladder configuration on Saturday at 1am PST. All ladder aggregates (points, wins, losses) will be reset, and the leaderboard cleared, shortly before the ladder begins. This will not reset your account aggregates.

There are no rule or scoring changes, but we may make changes at some point.

Also, effective immediately, the disconnect grace period has been increased from 30 seconds to one minute.

Rewards are not automated (yet), because of this they need to be pulled from the database, verified / spot checked, verified again, and then sent off to Customer Service who will then distribute them.

This can take some time, and I believe CS has a backlog they’re churning through.

Shockwave.1230:

What about Profession based MMR?

It will probably remain disabled (but still being tracked) until we add character locking back.

Saiyan.1704:

Wait a minute there sparky, so if some one pulls the plug on themselves to purposely dc for 30s, they have the option to switch characters when they log back in?

I’ll just spell it out.

We are no longer locking you into character.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Justin ODell.9517:

Wintersnight.3061:

If we DC during those 30 seconds…can we come back as a different character?

Yes

Does this count as a loss though?

No, not if you’re back in time.

Wintersnight.3061:

If we DC during those 30 seconds…can we come back as a different character?

Yes

Hag.4605:

Just want to add another question:

If i get a DC in the end game 495-100 and i was in the winning team, do 30 sec grace period will give me a win or still i will lose because i didn’t log in fast enough?

If the game ends before the grace period is up, it does not count as a disconnect.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

another question:
does it count us as logged back in when we choosed our character at the character selection screen and is logging into the heart of the mist?

No, you must be back in the game instance.

Morwath.9817:

Because someone has to feed Premades. Working as intended.

It’s actually the opposite. The reason we’re seeing more duplicate professions is because I had to tone down matchmaking scoring for duplicates and boost scoring for party size to reduce the number solo vs premade matches.

Arvid.3829:

Justin ODell.9517:

If you play with a party, you will never lose ladder standing because someone else on your team, but not in your party, deserted.

If you play with a party, and someone on your team deserts then everyone in the party will take a full loss worth of ladder standing regardless of outcome.

Justin, the way it’s written now these 2 points directly contradict each other. I assume you mean for the second one:
If you play with a party, and someone on your PARTY deserts then everyone in the party will take a full loss worth of ladder standing regardless of outcome.

You’re right. Thanks! I edited the post to fix that.

Ekelon.7041:

Sorry Justin. I know you all had good intentions, but it doesn’t seem to have panned out as well. I am still impressed that Lexi managed to put in 800 games in the span of 4 weeks.

It was an experiment. We learn, we grow, we continue. I believe we’re going to do a postmortem on the forum about it soon where we’ll share what we found.

NeXeD.3042:

imaclown.1628:

…

I second that.

You know that doesn’t count, right?

infantrydiv.1620:

…

I re-read the posts, I think your right, I did misread your post.

I’m going to bring up the ‘party has deserter but won’ scenario with the team.

infantrydiv.1620:

Don’t think I’m following your train of thought, but:

Shouldn’t matter, if 4 players win vs 5, they always deserve a win, and in addition, the people on the 5 team deserve -3 leaderboard points for managing to lose 5v4.

Sorry, I should have elaborated. Having multiple accounts is the bane of the dishonor system. Anyone can create multiple accounts to easily avoid dishonor.

Much like imaclown.1628 aka NeXeD (that’s against the code of conduct, by the way) uses multiple accounts to manage forum infractions.

The thought is that cheezers and exploiters aren’t going to care if they break one rule or two, if they want to do it they will do it. So we have to design around them.

Lux.7169:

But according to your theory, dishonor will deter this sort of behavior in and of itself, so then why implement a double punishment? Dishonor on a team-mate + a loss even though you won 4v5?

Multiple. Accounts.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

If someone in the party DCs and the team lose, they receive the full loss (which is what happens under the current system anyway).
If someone in your party DCs and the team wins, the remaining members receive a win.

In this scenario, someone in the party DCing does not guarantee that the other party members won’t lose ladder standing, because they still lose it if the game is lost. This however gives leeway to teams that are winning 300-0 before a party member has a powercut or something similar.

That does seem to satisfy the concern, I’ll pass it along.

infantrydiv.1620:

What if someone on my team, in my party, DCs for longer than the grace period, but I win the game 4v5 regardless?

Full loss for ladder standing.

Someone on the team mentioned that, I think. The theory is if we allowed this then people would have someone D/C in the beginning just to guarantee that the other party members can’t lose ladder standing.

infantrydiv.1620:

Wait…ranks as in “I’m a Dragon rank.”? I don’t think anyone wants those factored into any match making system if that’s the case.

Yes. Read the forums, this is important to quite a few people. :P

Bedrax.3294:

plz for god sake, remaster the mmr calculating system it’s just too broken, no names to the top.

I assume you’re taking MMR to mean leaderboard position. They are not the same.

I have audited the actual MMR code, as have others. I have also spot checked it many times by looking for top players and comparing their MMR to the average. I have also randomly chosen samples and reviewed their MMR progress over the course of a few days to check that it matches what is expected.

style.6173:

You really need to stop using ranks. Use only actual gameplay results. If someone has no gameplay results, then let them start at the bottom and work their way up.

Personally, I ignore ranks, but include the information because more than some feel it’s relevant.

Lux.7169:

style.6173:

Justin ODell.9517:

If you DC and do not reconnect within the grace period, yes.

This is to discourage groups from leaving the match early to invalidate a win for the other team.

I really hope that you aren’t saying that the winning team does not get a win if someone on the losing team deserts. That makes no sense.

I’m hoping the actual implementation is like this:

1. If you win the game and played until the end, you get a win
2. If you win the game, and deserted, you get nothing
3. If you lose the game and had a deserter, the remaining team members do not get a loss or negative mmr
4. If you lose the game and WERE the deserter, you get a loss and negative MMR. Ideally, I’d even make it so they get a double loss.

It doesn’t need to be a net sum zero of wins and losses.

+1

To clarify, I am not using party and team interchangeably.

If you play solo, you will never lose ladder standing because someone else on your team deserted.

If you play with a party, you will never lose ladder standing because someone else on your team, but not in your party, deserted.

If you are the deserter, no matter who wins, you will take a full loss worth of ladder standing regardless of outcome.

If you play with a party, and someone on your party deserts then everyone in the party will take a full loss worth of ladder standing regardless of outcome.

You will only earn ladder standing if the losing team did not have deserters, with the assumption that the game wasn’t a valid challenge between teams.

If both teams have deserters, the game does not count for ladder standing at all.

The point in emphasis is probably controversial to some, but we feel it is necessary to prevent exploits, and permissible because of the grace period.

Edit: Clarifying two points.
Edit 2: Corrected the emphasized text with what was intended. Thanks, Arvid.3829.

Brigg.6189:

Actually that’s a fun idea. Could you publish any stats about classes and their win rate, mmr, or ranks?

Maybe, but it may not be accurate.

Lishtenbird.2814:

The first thread was posted in the General Discussion (“PvE”) subforum and got its attention there. Why it was moved to PvP section – no idea (because it contained “PvP” in the title? similar things happen quite often, threads get moved/merged based on the “trigger” words in the title and not the actual contents), but it was, and now the attention of the local inhabitants moved from the “click-bait” thread to a “support your game mode” thread.

Heh, maybe we’ll get this thread moved to general discussion then. }:|

Solstice.1097:

Well in that case… you didn’t ask for suggestions but here is one anyway >.<

1. Announce the season start date just 1 or 2 weeks in advance.
2. During those 1-2 weeks have a pre-season meta achievement where wins earn extra rewards and maybe even a chance at a precursor or maybe a special limited time reward track
3. When the season begins, revert MMRs back to where they were on the day it was announced.

Or a more simple alternative – during the period from when it’s announced until when it begins, a person’s MMR can not drop more than 5-10% from where it was when announced.

Suggestions are always welcome.

I make it a point to pass along the ones that aren’t something we’ve already considered.

lvis.3824:

Would it be possible to display such information in the leaderboard ? ( Matchhistory )
Or is it just to much effort ?

It’s very cool from you that you check peoples match statistics if someone thinks he might has a bugged account, so the information about all this in there, but you have to check “manually” .

I think the community would really really apreciate it if more detailed information was shown.

I think the intent is to make this available in some fashion, but I have no timetable.

Shhhh… if no one notices we can keep it this way.

Solstice.1097:

I assume MMRs will reset at start of a season if W/L does as well.

No, MMR is tied to the arena not the ladder season. We know about the potential for tanking before the beginning of the season, but I don’t believe we’ve settled on a solution yet.

Aowys.9420:

I disagree and yes todays update . match where you win by 200 points or more is a blowout in my mind each game so far win or lose have been blowouts and yes i solo que .

it seems if i go by the finishers that the matches are not by rank .it would oh so seem that the system is matching classes .

I am not trying to be mean .

If we go by your metric, you had 3.

The first was all solos but counted as buy because the enemy team had a deserter. The ratings were very slightly in in your favor, but rank was in their favor.

The second was the one I mentioned.

The last was all solos and you lost, but you had both the rating and rank advantage.

Can you give me a little more detail that that?

So far today (and I assume you’re taking about today’s update) you’ve had 1 blowout. It was all solos, and had even ratings and ranks.

glock.6590:

And what about the wins/loses acccumulated before the big PvP patch? Will you merge them with the current games next season?

Do you mean your account aggregates? We are currently planning (afaik) to show only ladder season specific data. So everyone starts at 0/0 at the beginning of a season.

Blackwyn.8127:

I’m sorry but I still feel like it didn’t answer my question. Are you referring to when the PvP map starts loading that the system acknowledges you as back or when it starts loading the Heart of the Mists map? Cause when you dc and get back in, it usually loads Heart of the Mists first and when that is fully loaded, it starts loading the PvP map.

So the system acknowledges you as reconnected when it starts loading the Heart of the Mists map or when it starts loading the PvP map match that was chosen for the match?

Oh, sorry. It registers when you connect to the PvP map.

If this takes longer than we allow, please remember we have to balance this number against the players still in the game that are now at a disadvantage.

Blackwyn.8127:

Could I get a bit more clarification on this please. Loading into the Heart of the Mists map takes about 1min – 1min and 30 seconds for me and then it starts loading the PvP map which usually averages at around 25-30 seconds.

So I get dced, go to char screen and get back in and it starts loading the Heart of the Mists map for me. Is this when the system acknowledges your ‘return’ to the match or when the PvP map that you got starts loading?

You register as connected before you finish loaded, but we can review changing that number if it is too low for a significant number of people.

Lishtenbird.2814:

“Most of us don’t care about PVP” – 55 replies, 1365 views.
“Most of us don’t care about pve” – 3 replies, 86 views.

Draw your conclusions.

First one sounds like click-bait when posted in the PvP forum.
Second isn’t all that controversial in the PvP forum.
/conclusion

I haven’t PvE’d in quite a while, usually just to open containers that were incorrectly set not to open in the lobby. I’m usually doing solo ranked, unless someone asks me to party.

Laserbolt.6731:

I assume the leaderboard continue to automatically update?

No, it will stay at it’s current position until another season begins.

Lux.7169:

So it’s officially closed and any progress now is just for fun?

Correct.

Nyspar.6103:

Am I the only one who was under the assumption that the leaderboards would reset after the test ladder?

Also, anyone know when I will get my mini Llama!!!!

No, they will not reset. We do not currently have another test season scheduled.

Rewards are still being processed, and have not yet been sent out.

Cynz.9437:

When will they stop being about farming ranked and actually about skill/wins? I thought it was supposed to change this patch. Why even bother doing ranked atm unless you have no job/school/life and can commit whole day to do ranked?

The test season is over, as we said it would be. If any changes come, we will announce them before the start of another test season (if we have one).

I’m not sure why you expected anything different.

Bugabuga.9721:

So, will we see solo players advertise “Will desert for 1g” when match goes badly?
Because “- Matchmaking ratings will not be updated if a game has player desertions.” and “Losses will not count toward the leaderboard standings if a teammate outside your party has deserted” — basically to offer losing team to erase the loss for low-low-price of 1g

Potentially, but it should be limited by dishonor.

Dishonor grows exponentially the more you gather. 16 minutes the first time, then +47m, and then +1h 24m the next time. That’s not exact because there is a time decay component but I think you get the idea.