Guild Wars 2

My experiences on Cond d/d roaming.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Better-Cond-DD/first#post5792638

Would use shadowstep on bandit’s defense slot, but you it is ok since you profit to cc people as much as possible on top of caltrops.

“fleet shadow”?. You chose this by mistake i suppose?

….massive bleed spaming…. no cleanse can stop.

the only counters…. aoes attacks that still melts the thief …

Dora I run this build… (you can see on the thread ‘’better cond dd’’)

I was talking about the cond DD that runs deadly arts and focus on poison.

But if you said the higher dmg spells on cond thief are just top of iceberg (venon and imparring). I will assume you are facing a very oriented bleed build.

If thats the case, the bleeds stacks fast but they have sort of low dmg with very long duration, if you time well your cleanses you can remove a kitten ton of bleed stacks on one cleanse, and will take some time to build up again.

You could also try (as I said on my thread) to pay close atention and time your attacks and cc to force not optimal use of utility for stun break/immo cleanse.

Do not stay/run over calltrops. Most of the dps you are having trouble with could come from stepping on those tiny stars on the ground, while you are worring about the malabarism…

And finaly the most efficient and accessible way of shutting it down was already said by you, aoe.

If so, than you are right this build means you won`t get a free lootbag or points unless you have aoe, and if you do "that still mets the thief’’.

Keep in mind us Cond DD have to chose to kitten ourselves by one of those 3 ways and the choice will end up beeing a major flaw on our build :

1: Don`t have deadly arts : our poison is kitten, sacrifice a great portion of dps and pressure, also cond burst becomes a lot weaker.

2: Don`t have acro: so must use withdraw, so to have Endurance refill you will use signet, that and 1-2 stun break on utility that have literaly the longest cd on stunbreak on the entire game. This makes extended battles and team fights way harder.

3: Don`t have trickery: Less pressure on steal/dodge, Less initiative to deathblossom or whatever you would like to use it, also no acess to confusion to cover for more important cond.

Once you understand how those builds work it will become manageable even without aoe.

Indeed we can already see such players falling on those traps.

They synergize very well with the whole concept you created.

Some people fall so hard on well placed traps, I can even see us /cough/, I mean, thiefs guild elite doing a lot of dmg on such ambushed enemys.

I would use Don’t Stop instead of Upper hand because of 3sec Int CD on Upper hand (we probabily can only get 3-4 points of initiative on a fight)

Pain Response instead of Vigorous Recovery to get cond cleanse that we don’t even need to activate for more gorgonzola survivability agains cond builds. (probabily have enough vigor just with feline grace+bountful theft?)

Otherwise seem well rounded imo.

Would keep on low profile tho, you wouldn’t like it getting nerfed so quickly would you? ; )

The critical strikes trait with cond traits at the same time seem sort of op because will tricky the enemy into not knowing where the dmg is actualy comming from, very smart!

….and those mechanics combo SO well with zealot gear.

Very good… 10/10 I don’t think I can suggest improvements at all.

Also, most players have been successful on countering thief by using this strategy:

Tora.7214:

None of these “tips” will help you agaisnt the increasingly popular perma evasión d/d condi daredevil

Well, if d/d + d/d, with energy sigils and agi signet+withdraw (or dd-heal+other stun break+acro traits) you can get something sort of perma evasion.

Still can countered by cleanse. Don’t need to be a very spammable strong cleanse either, just cleanse after he aplys the Spider Venon/Imparring Daggers and he will turn into a very friendly malabarist for at least 20 seconds.

Not saying it is weak build, just very easily counterable. (on wvw guards/dhs and “stone” eles/tempest sometimes just ignore me until I get tired of trying and go away)

IGN: Le Blossom
Thief Type: Artisan
Server: Dragonbrand
Experience with thief: Some sPVP but mostly expecialize on WvW roaming/scouting.

It is ok to log in now.

Got online just now. Think problem is solved.

Quoting from my e-mail:

GM Exalted Lord Googly Eyes (Guild Wars 2 Support)

Nov 24, 17:40

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us! We are currently aware of the issues with the login server and are working on getting it back up as soon as possible. We’ve got our best people on it, but unfortunately we don’t have an estimated time that it will be up and running again. We would ask that you be patient while we sort things out.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,

GM Exalted Lord Googly Eyes
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://help.guildwars2.com/

Quoting from my e-mail:

GM Exalted Lord Googly Eyes (Guild Wars 2 Support)

Nov 24, 17:40

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us! We are currently aware of the issues with the login server and are working on getting it back up as soon as possible. We’ve got our best people on it, but unfortunately we don’t have an estimated time that it will be up and running again. We would ask that you be patient while we sort things out.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,

GM Exalted Lord Googly Eyes
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://help.guildwars2.com/

/\ Quoted from my e-mail.

GM Exalted Lord Googly Eyes (Guild Wars 2 Support)

Nov 24, 17:40

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us! We are currently aware of the issues with the login server and are working on getting it back up as soon as possible. We’ve got our best people on it, but unfortunately we don’t have an estimated time that it will be up and running again. We would ask that you be patient while we sort things out.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,

GM Exalted Lord Googly Eyes
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://help.guildwars2.com/

Quoting from my e-mail.

GM Exalted Lord Googly Eyes (Guild Wars 2 Support)

Nov 24, 17:40

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us! We are currently aware of the issues with the login server and are working on getting it back up as soon as possible. We’ve got our best people on it, but unfortunately we don’t have an estimated time that it will be up and running again. We would ask that you be patient while we sort things out.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,

GM Exalted Lord Googly Eyes
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://help.guildwars2.com/

TheLastNobody.8319:

Nephar.3746:

both chill/alacrity should affect ini regeneration IMO, but i dont know how this could be balanced in pvp.

No no no no no no no. If chill affected initiative, thieves would probably just be absolutely destroyed. just making it so initiative can be affected by alaclarity would be enough.

OR. If they made it so it was affected by both chill AND alclarity, then if argue for making it so when thief swapped weapons they would have their initiative refilled at least partially.

Problem is, changes must follow some logic. Like Initiative beeing affected by buffs/debuffs that affect CDs. So if Alacrity, than chill and slow surely comes in the package.

Fixed a bug when thief’s initiative system was not affected by Chill or Slow. Now when under those effects initiative will not recover for the whole effect duration, additionally when the thief uses a spell under this effects he will now take damage per initiative spent as properly intended.

Obviously because Thief is so meta people on EU won’t play because would be too meta for them. They are taking a more casual aproach to make things interesting.

So. Has been a while since I answer this.

Well I´ve been using cond DD a lot on WvW roaming and the results are very good, i mean VERY good.

After playing WvW for a while (following some advice from you guys), I don’t ever think I want to Spvp again.

On wvw, our mobility has more purpose as we can be distant and fast eyes for our commander, our scouting is very important, I never felt so useful on Spvp as on WvW when some commander make a decision of WP back or going for a somewhat risky objective, stopping a whole zerg from what they are doing, and changing his plans, “just” because my scouting provided a “turning tables” info.

And I do that while picking and slaying stray zergers, lost players, other roamers and scouts, or the backline of enemy zerg.

I win lots of 1×1 and 1×2 per day, even won some 1×3.... also LOTS of times I can get into a 1×3, kill one of the enemys with bursting cond+elite stomp, than run to safety after.

I rarely roam with someone, and when I do it is another DD (not cond).

I advice anyone who likes DD to stop Spvp and go try the same as me, for me it completely changed my experience as a thief player, could be the same for you.

I’ve been able to 1×1 anything, realy, and I almost never lose on 1×1, when I do it’s because of severe outplay for a way more experienced duelist (most of them are thiefs)…

Sometimes I lose to people that strike very precisely on the time between dodges with high burst dmg (some med guardians I faced were very good on this, not DH, guardians) , and that’s realy hard do avoid. But happened only like, once a week or something… and when it stomps me: “ok, dragon/phoenix finisher… fine by me losing to this guy, even more ok if it is a good thief player”

Sometimes I encounter people that are sort of “immune” to cond, like some very tough guardians and diamond skin eles or auramancer tempest, but I think power builds would have to just ignore/run from some very tough guys anyway(?).

Also once on a while Ive been unfortunate enough to face a very good reaper duelist, when that happens there is almost nothing you can do to take him down… but on those encounters I just shadowstep away, Steal on another enemy or an sentry to make gap, spam dodges and run, etc… You can also lure him to near one of your sentry and there maybe you have a chance at killing him.

Well, where i’m going with this?

On my experience, we are very strong roamers as DD, we have the mobility that allow us to pick fights and leave it when on disadvantage, and we can 1×1 and 2×1 easily on that cenario. The new elite, while it is good on spvp fells amazing on WvW, when you have so much unorganized zerg fights, a faster (and sightly more difficult to interrupt) stomp will probabily make at least one of your ally raly back to combat.

For now i’m running this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAoY4Yn8lCFNhlOBemCkmiFYCrrwkESUzhwSYKU7PFAKAA-T1xHABkt/wsPAgy0LMi6P1pEEgTCQRK/CAgAwMn5Mn5MnZpAqSZF-w

(Still deciding on going full Dire or remainning half Carrion, viper would not be good as our cond are realy kitten long duration, we need cond dmg)

Whats is important to kill someone is abuse the immobilize from the neddle trap (on heal), panic strike and imparring daggers, (or if you are power, basilisk) as a lot of people you fight are trying to either close gap or run from you and get to their group on WvW.

Would add, that if you are playing cond you MUST hit imparring daggers… if you hit all the daggers the enemy will die on like 5 seconds. But if he dodge the daggers you will have sort of long duel 10-15 seconds more.

You could use SB with very good results, for more scouting and aoe for attacking zergs from wall or on huge fights… probabily would be better overall I admit.

But I rather use d/d d/d because I way too often engage on 2 or 3 enemys, and this weapon set helped me on those fights much more than SB.

Sorry for my dh-brained english (not first language) and please add your own experiences and tips on wvw thief will be much appreciated.

Gramp.7482:

Arent thief one of the highest, if not the highest single target dps? Whats with all the thief are weak threads lately?

Every class are qqing that their own class is weak. Just play what u freaking enjoy. Every class is weak every class needs a buff

Couldn`t be more accurate, everyday when I play my thief someone whispers me and say ‘’Hey man could! you help us on this raid with your super nice dps? Also if you could carry me on spvp because thief is just so usefull to everything on this game!! Wish my shiro had this dmg!!’’

And I fell bad when this happen because I know it is all because my class is just better than anyone elses, I just spam vaults and HS while everyone dies because my class is just so much better.

Ps: No.

No, i`m not trolling at all.

And I`m not saying “Rev is perfect and his build has no counter and everything you try will fail because is op.” That would be just silly.

I played from 0 to 80, and IMO felt godlike, also stated WHY that felt this way…. whats the problem with that?

I should keep quiet? It is my experience and I felt this way, we can discuss it of course, or you can not discuss it if you want. No problem on either.

Also i`m NOT suggesting any way of nerfing it, i`m just doing my part, that is providing sincere feedback on my experience.

Now about personal answers.

Misguided, thanks for your opinion.

You are right about most popular build not having cond cleanse, but glinth heal spells heals from cond ticks, if you are using a cond build (like I do most of the time) the heal can reset the fight turnning 3 secs of your cond burst into healing negleting most of your dmg.

While leveling sometimes normaly on tyria I remember a episode on story mode when I had to kill recently turned undead Apatia on the top of a tower. On this specifc instance I learned that spamming (not stupidly of course) pain absortion could negate all my troubles with cond dmg without having Jalis heal to cleanse them.

‘’This is not reliable for spvp!’’ Hmm not realy talking about that. Pvp is just a part of the game (and not the primary focus of it either).

Talking about my experience on how the class was godlike while leveling, and how those conclusions on the class are each day proved (even today) while I roam on wvw.

Leodon, thanks for your answer. Idk if it fells different from killing a mob with rapid fire from 1500ft with a ranger. I’ve never touched a ranger would be lie if I pointed any unbased difference between those two.

Maybe you missundestanded what I said?

I`m not talking about my lvl 80 herald on queensdale ‘’lvl capped to lvl 9’’ oneshotting something… i`m talking about my rev while still on lvl 9, with only the normal starter and first instance gear being able to oneshot something of its same level.

And no, or course not lvl 9 mobs do not get oneshooted by just about any classes on those phases of stating the game.

Why would you say something like that? If you realy think this is a fact, please test it. You will notice realy clearly this not the case at all.

Also I got though the whole scaling of my leveling experience, but you just pointed the first impression I had when I oneshooted a mob. Well… if you read carefully you will noticed I didn`t based my opinion on that, just my inicial impression that got confirmed by playthough as revenant.

Revenant is unfinished? Could you please link the thread where you got this info? I realy didn`t know that, so if you could be kind and point me a Dev saying that Rev is still on development phase I will remake this topic considering this.

Even so, if it is still unfinished, maybe thats what they need to finish, constructive feedback, as I`m providing from my gameplay experience, and not about tournaments but how It fells to play it from 0-80 and personaly I think this is more important than tournament balance issues. (normal players are more numerous and should be the company focus imo)

Lxghostxl, thanks for you answer, even beeing this sort of answer I will still consider it.

No, as I said not trolling.

“I don`t know why so many people says revs are OP?” Yeah, but no… you do know very well because everyone knows what is the reason people think it is op.

It is because rev can do more thing than other classes, and do then well and on some cases better than classes that can only do one thing.

This isn`t hard to get, it is very understandable and I think any rev would know this.

Seemed more of a random rant than something that you do actualy considered and formed your opinion.

You could dissagre with it tho.

I didn`t said pve Revs are godlike, I said, from my experiences, it felt that way.

Well to be fair, i didn`t soloed dungeons or field bosses (you are refering to event champion mobs? if so, yeah I actualy did solo some, but did this on other classes too)

Those are your requeriments for something to fell godlike on pve 1-80 content? Well, maybe you should do your thread about your experiences… than you could use words like ’’godlike’’ with your personal take on then.

I already told on the topic why I felt this way, how I jumped on the middle of invasion of mobs content on story… on claw island I felt like risen were there only for mallyx amusement.

‘’how long you will keep fooling around with your weak argument’’

Well sorry but can`t provide you a precise timespan right now, I don`t know how long I will keep going on my very extensively explained feedback on my experiences against your fallacy bombardment. But probabily not long.

Asher, thanks for you answer. But, did you read the thread?

I somewhat agreed with what you just said, at least to a part of it.

Not going about Rev very good dueling potential, not this that maked it fell op imo.

Is more about how much different things a Rev can do and how much it exceel or at least is very good contestant with the more especialized class that can only do one of those things.

Please take your time to read the thread before answering or just skip it if felling lazy, as I also said on thread.

The Topic is not against Rev actualy.

I play Rev also (but main thief), and while looking at their forum noticed this guy claims, first I laugh hard at it, then after that I starting thinking if people will always be like this regardless of class viability or “overpowerness”.

But I shared with you guys most for the Irony on it, for the lols.

I mean, one could say some Rev skills are bad, or need works, one could also point lots of examples on game to try to make the first claim a valid one.

But the fact he pointed our class, the class that most suffer from being nerfed, with an very situational feature that most DD don’t even know we have, the ones who do also know is not a reliable reflect, won’t you think this is Ironic? xD

Idk if it explained why I did this Topic, is more than a Attack on Rev forum. Its food for though while also beeing a joke. (As I see it)

It is amazing as there are realy a few things that rev can’t do that could be used as examples…

But the fact he used DD reflect on AA almost makes me thing he is some thief trolling on Rev forum.

Then he just said this.

Almost looks like trolling.

We are such spoiled kids asking for balance all the time on our perfectly viable class.

Realy, some other Classes have REAL BALANCE ISSUES.

Proof on Attachments.

Just talked to my cat about it and he confirmed this info as legit.

Ever considered killing everything else thats is not cond, and when facing cond builds rotate between blocks and shield and glinth heal to avoid cond ticks and aplys until you can sword 3 kitten out of people?

Because I run cond builds and most of times that is what successful revs do to kill me.

Longest text ever, if you are felling lazy, go watch some youtube videos instead (don’t say I didn’t warn you)

After reading a threat about a guy complaining that Rev has no access to reflect I just first laugh, but then I though… what if this guy is not trolling?

So this is my story on a Rev that is not a “80 tome of knowledge” but instead a rev that played from lvl 1 to 80 killing mobs and doing story and events (as I always do with my characters)

I maxed herald few weeks ago, but I have the same impression as I had on lvl 9 when I instakilled a centaur (lvl 9 also) with a single UA.

“Isn’t this too much?”

While I played my Rev on pve leveling normal content I realy felt like godmode…

While exploring, shadowstepping from mob to mob using shiro shadowstep on such a low cd felt godlike alone, aside from being able to kill (or take 80-90% of the health) of any “not champion” mob with a single sword 3 key during all early and mid phases of my leveling.

Then I leveled till 80, played some HoT content, got full elite spec, etc…

But still keep this opnion.

Don’t you guys fell the same?

Or maybe you prefer to hide it so that your new character continue to fell like Batman? Because idk I realy like my herald, invested a lot on her style also, but I wish my other classes weren’t so much weaker than her.

Think about the things that Rev have at their disposal, and if you won’t agree with me, say why is that, I hope I won’t need to go into details and numbers because that would just be stupid, you guys play Rev and don’t need to dwell on denial, right?

I have the strongest (by kitten far) single target dmg of all classes I’ve played… with assassin/berzerker split I get 92% critical chance while on fury (could get higher or just more power if wanted, but I like crits). the fury on heal trait gives you enough time with Imp Ods to realy hurt something or most of times kill it. (specialy with the dmg from shiro heal)

I have a strong aoe, unfortunaly i’m not much of an aoe type of player, but while leveling (especialy story mode) I faced a lot of content when the aoe dmg was needed, I was using only hammer at first and it was already strong, but “okish” strong.

But when I started spamming Mallyx jump on mob groups, oh boy… that spell is just insane (Why does it hit that much on power build? oO), Well, for me it trivialized all “huge invasion of mobs!!” content.

I ll give a point to “it is balanced” team now, because I felt that Ventari was indeed very weak on solo play, felt like I absolutely needed his traitline to be a viable legend, and jalis seemed so better on increasing survivability without demading that I sacrifice one spec (on earlier levels with only 1-2 spec, ventari felt unplayable)

But then again, if traited (no sure of that) would not be op that the same class that I play so offensively can build celestial and be a very strong group healer ONLY when needed just by changing a legend? No? Realy? Ok, well realy though it was. My bad.

Imo other classes seem to have 2-3 ways of doing the same thing, just different methods, while rev actualy does 2-3 different things, while beeing extremely good on each if traited (only one trait line) for it.

My mesmer, for example, If I want sustain and cleanse, I would have to build fully arround it to and use mantras, including 2 grand traits on different specs so thats 2 specs… well if I want cond build I must have illusion, if not I already lost depcetive evasion so power shatter will be a lot harder to play.

To get one thing, you have to sacrifice a lot for it…

With my thief the same happens but even worst… thief has to choose only 1 “attack pattern” (or “engage strategy” if pvp/wvw) and build everything else, traits, runes, sigil and utility spells around it…

See the difference?

Back to Rev.

About Jalis, he is not op imo… he is fair, the problem is he beeing on the same class that stacks so much might and 40% fury that always, and group heals, and outruns anyone on the whole game… (maybe beside SB DD, that only moves sightly better than rev, while rev have all other things on the game).

And about Herald… well… just too much of sinergy with any other legend like it makes the Rev better than anyone on that chosen role that the first legend focus…

My conclusions are:

Traits are too forgiving… everything you spec will be ok and will do just fine assuming you don’t go like “salvation/retribution” mallyx/shiro.

Too few weapon options… especialy when you consider the only ranged weapon is hammer. and power>sword, cond>mace… so, unless we are going hybrid we don’t have MH option at all.

OH weapons are only 2, and both are not interesting… OH is, ok another block and this very strange skill that I may use for interrupts maybe? when you need your energy for imp ods, engaging and dodgin+breaking stun you are probabily not doing strange back teleports with pulls. (suggestion, make it a 2 chain spell, one shadowsteps back, the other one pulls, that will make it a nice disengage spell with option of reingage with interrupt)

Axe… the first spell is realy redundant with phase transversal… and it is a power one, not so good for cond, while the second is cond that combos well with mace build but sort of lame on power build… Idk what suggest here realy…

Thats it… hope this will be usefull for some dev or even you guys complainning about not having reflect (lol, I always laugh at that)

So guys thanks a lot for the feedback, after working some more on the build I realized the same issues and answers you guys posted.

When I did the math the scavenging runes deals more dmg even on the long run because the bonus from “just more cond dmg” aplys to bleed AND poison instead of more especialized runes… also it took me the burden of having to always apply poison or always aply bleed using the other one mostly to cover.

Freeing me to use Calltrops (the utility) that doesn’t aply poison or Spider venon that doesn’t help bleed beeing both effective, widening my options for single target or going point control depending on the match.

And if we consider the fact that someone will always cleanse poison and/or bleed before 10 seconds it becomes MUCH better than cond duration runes.

I´ve dropped refuge for the agility signet and woah that is so much better, using refuge was playing with 1 utility less and now using the signet I realized this.

For now I’m testing malice signet for heal because death blossom and dodges hit 3 times so maybe worth it(?), but on early testing i’m already missing the dd heal.

Maybe the agility signet, energy sigils and dd heal would be too much? (idk tho, maybe one can never have enough dodges) especialy when dodge=dps.

One more question that I have, what you guys think about Trappers Respite + Resourcefull Trapper VS dagger trainning + panic strike?

That first option could solve our problem of more diferent conds to cover for the important ones, aplying vunerability. Might stacks will not be wasted either.

If viable, was thinking on shadow trap on the refuge slot, could work as a gtfo portal and also an engage tool if previously set on point.

As for point control we can go from clocktower “balcony” sides to a point if needed. (tested) works ok on legacy of the foefire from middle to any other point previously set, but spirit watch confused me because i’ve seen it working and it not working on almost the same places (mid to sides / sides to mid).

(probabily because of elevation?)

Need you guys opnion on it to be sure of its viability on a more point control focused build or maybe for a wvw port?. (losing the signet could hurt too much the duel ability)

Thanks for all the aswers as they realy help me with those insights, wish you conddevils luck on the mists o/

So, I was building my DD, and always liked cond build.

Played some games with normal cond d/d (krait runes and caltrops on dodge) and it was ok… then I though, What would happen if I run Deadly Arts instead of Trickery.

Well it seemed very very strong for me as I just activated spider venon, F1 someone and then spammed dagger 3 and dodges and ocasionaly heal or imparing daggers and people just died strangely fast and blink away and runned like crazy.

And I was “omg these people are running from me? This is so exciting!”

I won some 2×1 that I didn`t had a clue of what I was doing until I saw both of then downed. o-o. Like spaming dodges and dagger 3 on top of a reaper’s cleaves and aoe while was someone shooting me arrows with his bird trying to bite me.

Check the numbers and types of cond on the spells. (death blossom does a lot of things now)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn8lCFNhdPBemCkmilWCrbx8E2CznwV4LULAcAWAA-TJxBQBGc/hldKAAwTAwLlBAA

Ok, now to be sincere i`m low rank and still learning, so I maybe that was just luck on like 5 games at a row(?), also probabily everyone playing those games were low rank too, so this is the time someone says “that explains it all you noob, l2p, stupid build just follow the meta”. (Just don`t)

The only person who took me down 1×1 on those 5 games was someone running that DD staff 5/bound dodge build, and he played significantly better than me so i`m totaly ok with that.

I would like you guys, more experienced thieves, to tell if it sucks somehow, or if is realy interesting and has high tier potential or wvw potential.

Feedback on tests would be very much appreciated.

The refuge is there for reviving and for engaging from stealth, as the surprise effect of a thief suddenly appearing seems to make huge difference on my rank (lol) due to low reaction times, but for higher tier I think it could exchanged for anything as I barely used outside those situations I just said.

Thanks.