Guild Wars 2

I use Channeled Vigor… but I though a lot about all the options

I tryed Dagger Trainning + SoM but I felt it leaves me with no options of retreating from a fight or trying to block line of sight, ressing people, or well, lets just say it pressed me to do certain plays and I felt bad about it.

I also played with withdraw a long time but I use acro because of no SB so withdraw is a bit less needed, I realized more heal from channeled vigor and more endurance (+beeing able to not run agility signet) seemed better…

When I tryed channeled vigor I considered using trappers respite and felt very confortable with the way it plays, I used to run spike trap on my P/D cond thief pre-hot on wvw roam so I realy like trappers respite.

When I started using it I noticed the immobilize could help me get a garanted imparring daggers+venom and that combination would usualy kill the opponent.

If not, they would at least take the enemy to the treshold to trigger Panic Strike, chainning a lot of Immob that gave me free time to aply the venom stacks.

I learned I could also benefit from heal>steal to lay a trap on the enemy’s feet and Shadowstep+heal to the front of my enemy to deny his escape, then I just married to the concept…

The rest of the build is based on that… if the enemy manage to cleanse the burst, of course I ll start DB spam but nowhere near as powerfull as a krait runes+SoM DB spam… mine is more of a tatical delay until I can setup other burst or reposition with steal or simply wait for cds while dealing some dmg.

I like it a lot for pvp as it is sort of unexpected high cond burst… also on wvw (I use dire there) so I can 2/3v1…

if you like female characters as you sounded to you should realy do human… they are gorgeous.

Chars thiefs are clumsy imo, they are too big and makes no sense for me… also chars are not ‘’dark or sexy’’ they are or majestic or cute… well because they are lions or kitties lol.

Sylvaris are slaves to mordremoth you should make a class that has free will (trolling but i`m racist to plant people, the only cool sylvari is canach)

Asuras seem to have the most interesting storys, human story is kind of boring… if you like asuras I ll go as one because beeing a asura is a advantage for a thief, because beeing small helps a thief, makes you slightly harder to notice and select.

(about the Lyssa confound you!) is not only to humans… all classes greet to nothing from time to time, is barely noticiable.

Sorel.4870:

fumcheg.1936:

So you suppose other ppl must care and build their game around you just because you don’t want to switch to a normal class (most probably because you don’t know how to play other classes)? Well you DO deserve the attitude you get.

I’m sure, since we’re talking about ranked, that you play the game with a competitive mindset. If that’s the case, yes, you need to adapt to what your teammates are playing. If I have a necro on my team, I am ready to peel for him when he gets focused and CC chained. If I have two DH, I will try to provoke large teamfights rather than 3-node scrims. If I play thief or shatter mesmer and I have a shatter mesmer or a Glint/Shiro revenant on my team, I’ll roam with him/her to quickly burst node holders. The list is long, and being a good soloq player means having the tools (including playing different builds/professions) to adapt to every comp you get. How do you expect to win? By zerging mid? How is it working for you so far?

Change your mindset, practice, and try to understand how conquest works. Understand that the main difference between you and good players is not in pressing your skills, but in effective rotations and carefully picked fights.

Oh: and if you respawn, you’re not forced to always go mid :P

This.

babazhook.6805:

Another sigil to consider again is draining. It does 1100 damage and gets you over 1000 life. This great for a Condi build trying to bust down diamond skin and if you got some interrupts in your build can really throw a kibosh in an enemies rotations.

Now you get that in on an impact strike chnain and manage to pull of an interrupt , you can boost the damage there niceley and get some healing in. It akin to a mug in some respects.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Leeching

actually 975 but thats a lot if you consider that it heals you too for the same value… I think I ll use it on my build, probabily will burst nicely along with the Scavenging Runes Heal proc (I use it just when I respawn so I ll have the proc on my first attack).

thats 2K dmg on top of everthing else you will cast… I think it could easily pierce diamond skin if you are running carrion… idk about my dire build but I ll certainly try it, beeing a cond burst build this suggestion can realy work nicely ^^

(i`m already using double d/d for the energy sigil so might as well use another ‘’on swap’’ sigil)

If by rifle you mean any weapon with consistent 1200 range gameplay, then yes I would quit if thief don`t get rifle.

But I would be happy even throwing snowballs at people if it would make me viable at something while also giving me some 1200 range solid gameplay.

Well today I was on my Dh and died on wvw to a stealthed trapper cond thief.

I got realy angry because I died almost instantly to double spike trap+ steal cond pressure… It took literaly less than 3 seconds to down me.

Then I realized that If I played better I could’ve F2 cleansed immobilize and more 3 cond and smite-cond 1 more with my heal (dealing dmg to him in the process and healing myself probabily to 100%)…

So despite he beeing cheesy as hell with a very easy build to play I died ONLY because of L2P issues.

Unfortunaly not many people think like me and they rather hate the cheese cond thief forever instead of learn something from it.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

What? Thief is good at something?

• Writes angry letter to Anet

Dear Anet,

Something something something stealth, something something no counterplay, too mobile something something, 5k backstabs. Highest condi cleanse in the game please nerf

Sincerely,
Naruto245xxx Sasuke ooh Cheeha

lmao at this.

/\ I’m a Thief and I’m offended.

Xillllix.3485:

if it works then it must be nerfed to uselessness

Are we talking about thief now?

Also this stuff of 4 Diamond + 1 Amber team is hard to believe, wtf using 50% division no matchmaking criteria?

like… realy, what? why?

people will always forge the criteria if there’s way of doing it… on league people come as far as paying challenger (legendary) players to make a noob account and going climbing with the person out of bronze and silver leagues…

But you know what happens shortly after?

1: The guy drops everything back to bronze, because he is bad.

2: The guy managed to realy learned a lot from his challenger teammate and now he continues to climb on Gold league alone… but on this case this guy now could easily get Gold on his own since he learned to play enough to keep Gold league. (so he payed for teacher, not a carry)

my point is… people WILL exploit the criteria if they can. Even if it costs money… even if it demands more effort than to get good and rise the ranks normaly (yeah people are strange).

So you have to be realy careful to make a anti-exploit criteria.

There should a good counter to bunker strategy actually.

right now there is nothing wrong or risky about having a bunker on your team.

is more like you absolutelly need 1-2, and a team with 3-4 is ok too.

Bunkers are a build strategy and like all of those it needs some risk on doing it and a lot of risk on over doing it.

One funny thing is that league of legends old systems had the same problems.

So anet didn’t had to commit those mistakes again, other games had those issues first and learned the hard way how to correct that. (or some of it)

On league they made that to advance to next division you will be paired 5 times against teams that are also advancing… and you MUST win 3 of them.

Also If you are at 0 pips and lose 5 in a row you will drop to the division below, your next 5 games will be promotion games… and if you win 3 of them and get to the next division (again) the system would “admit he made a mistake dropping you” and give you a 10 match immunity from dropping. (or something like that)

Dropping divisions mechanic or limited people on Legendary (or even on diamond) would solve this issues.

Most games have this… only a certain number of people can be on Tier 1, and to enter this tier one you MUST drop someone to tier 2 and get in his place, by beeing more sucessfull than him.

This makes the legendary even more meanningful and makes the other pools larger…

But yes, dropping divisions is a must because some people are Amber material so they shouldn’t climb to ruby unless they learn how to play as good as a ruby player would be expected to.

And if a ruby player is playing very badly, at emerald level game, performing last everygame and lossing most of his games, he should drop to emerald…

(even for his sake of dueling battles that he can enjoy and try to win while learning, not having to learn from defeat only seem more fun)

muscarine this is not a issue.

e-sports has always been like this… to climb you have to be so good that you make a difference among those bad players.

This way communication and leadership skills also count as beeing a better player.

Team competitive games are like this… you have to be omfg better than the others to climb out of the “elo hell” you got into.

And the more you play without doing so… the more you 50/50 more consistent your w/l becomes so more efficiently the system it will pair you with 50/50.

You have to be very good, than you will rise.

To rise fast on e-sports playing a lot won’t do…. you generaly have to study the game, get better at comunicating and predicting enemy team behavior while getting better at general duel to be sucessful.

Shylock.4653:

jomir.1958:

after some time the good players and premade teams move further/faster up the league, the casual and not-so-good players will stay in the lower divisions.

That won’t work. As soon as the better players have moved on to the next division the other start to win and follow. So better players move faster other slower. But in the end everybody is in the highest division.

What?

People will lose pips from losing you know?

If the 5 of your team are 1 pip higher, 5 other guys that lost will necessarily be 1 pips lower… meanning that to climb you have to be better than someone (the guys above you), and you will lower this guys and drop them (if you can).

The pairing should be based on the person ability. (a formula to determine this would be w/l ratio 75% + 25% some algoritm that somehow detemines if the person helped his team more than the others, including bunkering tactics)

Than reset everything and remove all check-points (you could leave Amber checkpoints on tiers for the starters)

We need to look at a diamond and know that player is a diamond ability player, right now I see a diamond player and think: ’’look! some ruby paired with a amber guy and ripped though the leagues! cool system!"

Guys you know what the problem is? You guys want to progress… like leveling or pve.

This is what is wrong.

There is no progression on e-sports, there is just improving as a player, and ranking up as a result.

You should be stuck on the same place you are losing and winning 50% until you somehow discover a way to play better and force wins…

That is until you get stuck again… and learn something again, this is the only progression e-sports have…

people get stuck on bronze V on league of legends for years… YEARS… because they are not good enough to climb out of it.

And I’ll tell you more… ranking up is easy as kitten now. On other e-sports ruby division rules apply since the first game you play ranked.

Double Trouble is not so simple as Urejt says.

Tutorial of holding MMR:

1: Get theif, a build that you are not very confortable and skilled with.
2: Right on the start go straight to far, and die to the person standing there.
3: Start speaking on map chat something about someone beeing cheese.
4: Ask you teammates on team chat "what are you guys doing?’’
5: Try to determine what is the point that the enemy team is commited to hold, and start suiciding there on 3×1 and 4×2
6: If a ele bunker your home, by all means you should fight him for 10 minutes if needed because home is very important so take your time as long as you need.
7: Profit

Urejt.5648:

thief is bad. u must accept that. What i dont accept is giving up at the begining just becouse of thief

Yes, and still a very good theif player is better than an average another class imo.

Actually ive seem some very good thief players that carry games viciously from time to time… problem is, they are less than 10% of the thiefs, so if you ask some thief to reroll, you have likely more than 90% chance of beeing right.

That frustrates thiefs that are good enough to pull off, and imo ANY person that has very good awareness and decent thief skills can carry low rank games.

Imo below ruby division no one loses because of a thief… they lose because someone, maybe the thief, and others on the team, are bad (not unskilled but don’t know how to make their team win, just don’t know what to do or how to do it)

They often get 2 points, attempt to capture far, lose a fight there by overcommiting and snowball that losing mid, than they start to suicide on mid and far splitting forces until the enemy team gets 500. After that they blame the thief.

Is not about winning or losing, is about the message that a better world can be achieved.

More violets, I say. Less violence.

are you trying to get us nerfed?

Yes… unhindered non-combatant would help to reach every point even faster…

I just though using d/p because we have 50% move speed on stealth, also stealth help us avoiding combat as much as possible.

ANet knows Theif is like a buddhist monk that surpassed all other classes, thiefs are too awesome and evolved to hurt others so he uses his wisdom to win the game instead of stupid violence.

Thorns #6 effect has an 10sec internal cd tho… so you will reach 100 cond dmg only on the pos-10 seconds fight.

The pro side is they have no limit (unless there is a limit but unwriten), so on long lasting fights like against roamming groups that could get higher than Scavenger runes.

While I agree thorns would work nicely with dagger trainning I wouln’t run dragger trainning unless you like SoM

With SoM build, you will want to hit a lot more times to keep alive and also not use the heal active… so probabily thorns+dagger trainning works nice on that build.

Mine is more of a cond bursting style… with trappers respite, imparring daggers, venom and the scavenger runes proc beeing the tools I use to quickly end the fight. (if this fails I proceed to normal db+lotus dodge spam)

You guys think dash is best for wvw even if running cond? Idk seem like giving up dps that we already don’t have much to give up, we also would lose the torment cond and a easy cripple.

I run lotus with acro to have a decent switfness uptime but I could try to change to dash+trickery if I see that I can still kill people without lotus but with more cond pressure on steal and more ini…. it could work.

You see… meta is something that professionals players are using consistently, I have no idea why casual pvp players would think that they should use the same thing if they are NOT doing the same strategys or having the same progression, rotations, calls, understanding of the game and ability that a professional player supposedly would.

Professional players plan a team comp that fits a gameplan, a plan for that match that hopefuly will be good against what the other team would likely run as their plan.

They don’t pick cond Rev because is the best rev build possible… they pick because is the best for the way they play and for the plan they will try to execute.

Just to make my point more clear I would like to tell a League of Legends history as a example:

something like two years ago pros on League discovered ways they could rotate their bottom lane players to Top lane very fast without sacrificing much presence and growth, this strategy was beeing used, among other reasons, to try to ensure a 2×1 against players that picked very strong 1×1 duelist or very weak 2×1 duelists… to somehow cripple the developement of the enemy team.

This of course led to a meta when pros started picking top champions that could also 2×1 very well, at cost of 1×1 potential and/or growth potential.

Because they couldn’t risk building for 1×1 and beeing surprised with a 2×1 waiting for them… (or even 3×1 most of the times)

This prevented this bot/top fast rotations because they just weren’t worth it against champions that could deal with this 2×1 cenario.

People outside the pro scene, would just pick the same champions and argue they were the best because the pros were playing and winning with it.

But this was NOT the case, the pro would certainly want to get more 1×1 and growth potential on their top lane player if they could, but they couldn’t risk beeing screwed by this strategy…

But this strategy couldn’t and was never used on casual because it took way too much team coordenation and awareness.

So people on casual were picking meta champions that were actually bad choices… without realizing it.

I don’t know if GW2 pro choices are made on top of such complex aspects of gameplay, but I would certainly like to think they are not only picked because “they are op”.

If i’m right about this, each class and build choice on pro scene (while it is probabily a somewhat solid build regardless of a gameplan) has a reasoning behind it that doesn’t apply to us.

Without this the pick is suboptimal.

I’m tier 5 sapphire and been climbing easily (2 tiers per day) with meditrapper dh… a choice that I think is way better for solo play than a full bunker build.

Just saying all this because I realy hate this meta bs, and have reasons for it,

if you think I’m wrong the GW2 pros simply pick something ‘’because is op’’, than this game is certainly way too simple to be taken seriously as a competitive pvp rpg game. (unfortunaly could be the case)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV4ansMBlOh9NBePBkmilhCjLAMBqAdrgRwYaO/9/OgA-TJxHABf/QAWqMQ47PAwVAAA

So guys I was thinking about making a joke thread , because has been a while since we had a good one, but ended up making a very interesting build instead.

Trying to make a joke about we having to avoid almost every fight and beeing able only to decap free points on a bunker meta gave me this idea: A build that could be successful abusing our few remaining strengths on spvp.

Your strategy will be rotate far > home > far > home forever, making sure they have to keep at least one person to bunker far, if they don’t you will get far and home points and leave your team 4×5 and sincerely hope for the best. (I’m not kidding realy)

On lord map you can also try to open the gate if you have enough dmg to break it (feedback on this would be appreciated) , and hit lord once, only to draw enemy team atention to lord (gtfo after tho or lord will kill you) , than you get back on decapping game on far and make sure you do this as often as you can, so they will have to check lord everytime and it will relieve pressure on other points.

If your team is losing on team fights always and there is a bunker on home or far than you get to mid! is team fight time!!!…. your purpose on the team fight is to watch it very closely (use stealth if you need to).

That is until a friend of yours gets downed, thats our time to shine my friend, jump the enemy with steal (don’t fight the enemy tho because you have no dmg or interrupts) and very fast start ressing your ally, the invisibility will hopefuly be enough to prevent the stomp.

And with this runes and amulet you should be tank enough to survive the aoe spam and ress the guy. (On theory)

You can also use the refuge, if there is no Herald, Scrapper or another reveal spell it should work greatly to your team advantage… That is, unless your teammate keeps breaking stealth with his downed spell 1 and gets stomped anyways. (well at least refuge has less cd on this build)

Use strategical analysis to determine what will be your best point rotation because your function is solely making sure they will need to bunker far and/or home 100% of the time.

You pressure their team by punishing them everytime they chase or badly try to rotate points.

They will have to check lord, and they will have to repair treb every kitten time as you get there over and over while your team hopefully can survive the 4×5 for this work at your team favor.

Other possible runes would be Runes of Mercy if you are realy into ressing guys and less into bunkering for a somewhat limited time the durability runes+soldier amulet will supposedly help you.

This is only theorycraft that came from a attempt to troll, but seem pretty solid imo considering that is what we do anyways, so might as well be very good at it?

Opnions will be very welcome to try to develop this monster even further.

The Decap Seeker Thief.

Dayra.7405:

I would not help to fix the yellow-dot. With F2P-accounts and a lot of people owning multiple occasion-accounts anyone that want to spy can do so.

You are mistaken. Its a bug and fixing it WOULD help.

Despite other ways of exploiting the system, every exploit method must be corrected, even if it needs to be corrected one by one. Each one of those fixes HELPS to a larger cenario where you can more and more often have a nice gaming experience.

is like winning and losing is only a factor that slightly improves the chances you get pips.

An Example would be:

IF YOU WON A MATCH:

Roll 1 d-six. If you get number 1, you lose 2 pips, 2 means you don’t get nothing for the win, 3-4-5 means you get a pip, 6 means you get 2 pips and roll another dice (that could even result in you lossing the pips again)

seriously now, I think the idea is good design the problem is the way people are manipulating it or misleading (sometimes not even on purpose) it by playing with amber/emerald guys significanly lowering the comp total “division count” (has the same value as the mmr).

The game trys to match people with similar ods of winning based on leagues and mmr, and that can already fail hard when people put a amber in the middle of a diamond premade.

But that gets even more scary when it mixes with this background system that allows unbalanced matches with customized rewards.

So… things like… Diamond+Amber fights ruby-emerald…. ruby-emerald team loses and lost 2 pips… and get angry because there was a kitten diamond on enemy side.

Yes… but that amber (he is diamond player too on a spare account) is faking the total “league count” of the system.

No joke… it is real and its not new. Is just even more real than it was before.

I realy like gw2 community because they are very pacient and acceptive comparing to other games i´ve played.

But this is obviously totaly not working as intended.

You see the yellow dots for guilds are made for pve maps, they don’t NEED to be implemented on all maps, its not “all or nothing” you know? They could program so that the dots wouldn’t appear on EoTM.

The dots are something to help guids communicate and enjoy guild activities more easily, and thats good.

But eotm is people vs people and makes no sense we being able to see the enemy team.

This is obviously screwing up strategical aspects of the eotm gameplay, anet doesn’t wants that, IF they wanted, they would make the map revealed so the strategy would be totaly based on seeing the enemy, like chess per example. And reading all this denial of this blatant fact is realy "wtf?!?!’’ for me…

I know you guys are caring and pacient people and you love the game, but bugs can’t be forgiven and treated this way, they have to be hated.

maybe the bound dodge because of burst from pistol sneak attack? Ive seem some guys chainning stealthed p1 > unload and going back stealth shortly after seemed very nice and dynamic way of playing.

(also the stealth could give you more of window to use venoms on a good moment, not having to use them asap to not die without using them)

This supportive venom stuff is realy worth it? or is something that you like and realy wants to do it so you make it work? (one can make almost anything work if you play good enough and know to pick fights)

I think you could be more sucessful with a solo duelist aproach, using that “combo” I said.

Guess it depends… if we are talking wvw, you are using staff+d/p? than dash… because roamming without bow and dash would be lame. (you could run acro for switfness/some cc invul tho)

But if you have sb+d/p or sb+p/p… than i would go bound because of the leap finisher, stealth in-out helps a lot on 1×2or3 on wvw.

Imo you should go for Scavenger runes.

I say this because most of our cond are 8 sec+ duration, a time that we actualy don’t need to extend even longer, by that time we most of times already downed the person or got cced and died.

IF people suffered all seconds of imparring daggers + BD spam cond pressure they would surely die, but they don’t, they cleanse it. (while they can)

With cond rev being a meta choice I figure most people would be returning their cleanses to the skill bar so hardly a thief will suceed to use his whole cond long durations before a cleanse washes it away, making pure cond dmg increase better than cond duration.

Scavenging runes gives more cond dmg, a bit more DPS with leeching 2 times, with a bit more survivability.

I use this and specialize on cond bursting opponents, by doing Steal > Trappers Respite > Venom+Imparring Daggers. In my experience this play can finish people off quite quickly.

If you are going for cond duration runes and a more lasting fight plan, trying to make the opponent use all the cleanse and still killing him after (like Krait). I would propose also using Frailty sigils, to add another cond for cleanse, this way your long duration bleed should be a bit harder to get rid of.

Edit: Only now I realized he is talking raids, not pvp or wvw roamming that I just assumed would be the only place a cond thief is possible.

Well.. so imo you realy shouldn’t use cond thief or even thief on raids, raids is a 10 guys thing so you probabily should be using the strongest thing you can to realy help the other nine, not think of only your fun.

But if you MUST play thief on raids, you should go berseker for dps role as some bosses seem very dps capped and thief still has a suitable dps if thats the only thing a team needs.

Well as I see… there is no Special skill when you eq only one weapon.

The ‘’only mh sword 3’’ skill is actualy the sword 3… that gets transformed by dual weilding something.

thats why the ‘’only 1 weapon’’ skill always sucks, because it gets improved by the second weapon dual weilding mechanic.

WOW suddenly I understood what he realy meant.

Thiefs on pvp are totaly insane.

Because you need to be totaly insane to play thief on spvp!…. now everything makes sense.

Well now that I see what you meant I agree 100%.

And I agree, thief is insanely not picked on the leagues.

Insanely not usefull to out team on most aspects…

very insane on pvp indeed.

Yeah it is insane to be actualy capable of killing someone, and beeing almost as strong as some other class, not very handicapped from start.

But yeah if you were used to play thief on pvp before HoT I can understand why you would be beating almost everyone right now.

Main thiefs are usualy more skilled than most other players because of every play of pre-hot thief having to chain 2-3 spells+combo fields to do the regular dmg of other classes plays.

This sort of thread could make Anet think we don`t know what we are talking about when we ask for buffs.

You should fair and describe both skills as they are truly used…. refuge gives 4 second per pulse, we can often easily get 10sec or more of it, what do you hope to acomplish by saying it only gives 4 second stealth?

You could compare the fact that if thiefs are taken off SR you will instantly waste a 60 seconds CD… Idk if gyro stealth resets if you manage to do the same with a Eng.

But to be balanced, should happen just the same as both skills have almost the same idea of intended usefulness.

That beeing said, Sneak Gyro is still way better than SR and it is on a class that doesn`t have stealth as one of the core mechanics and could already defend itself very well before it had it.

So, very unbalanced imo regardless of your way of trying (poorly or not) to say it.

I think if you create another character (any) and realy pay atention on the game tutorial as you level you will understand every mechanic and aspect you are not understanding now.

This in the only reason that you are having so much trouble and thinking the learning cliff is so high, it is not… can`t be compared with EVE online.

Elementarist can be said to have the hardest gameplay of all GW2 (even more for a new player), so maybe if you create another more simples class, and pay close atention to tutorials and explanations while you are leveling, when you go back to your ele you will love it.

best regards o/

Well maybe a thief could deliver more DPS than other class, but then it would need to survive for at least one whole second.

While I agree there is no need of even more cond cleanse Pain response would be better than Fleet Shadow.

1: It gives regeneration on every fight, cond or not.
2: Even if it only cleanses one stack of bleed, its still helping you survive.
3: You have no stealth besides dagger 5… that you won`t probabily even use because you are cond build and etc…

Why are we even discussing this? Fleet shadow is useless for you and you know that because you are an experienced thief…

o-o, so if you disagree I will assume you are trolling and stop falling for it.

That beeing said, good luck nice build btw. o/

Serious Thought.5394:

Good work there Dev. However, we need to put a .5 cast time on all Daredevil Grandmaster traits. Get to it.

We appreciate that you are happy with our efforts on balancing the game.

We are working non-stop to make you sure all Thief players can enjoy the ultimate challenging experience on a MMO, and we sincerely apologize if we delay on noticing any build that might be exploiting unintended synergy on the traits to become viable, we also guarantee that those issues will be taken care on our next nerf list.

Thanks for all the support, best regards from Kaliny Kittenvelopment Team.

Fixed a bug when bound dodge was getting interrupted on rare occasions.

Now it has a 0.5sec casting so that enemys can properly interrupt it as intended.

With that changes we hope other classes have more counterplay against “dodge-spam” sorry we took so long on that one.

messiah.1908:

can you elaborate why?

Well I could try…

Because F5, realy useful portal mechanics, efficient cond shattering that works on defense and offense and mesmer team support on general (like time warp, wells) are things that requires some fast decision making and predicting on other players (ally and enemy) behavior.

Edit: I was trying to say mesmer gives way more space for strategic uses of cds, and faster fingers won’t realy help you on those decisions… this is why I think a cond chrono would be a more strategical choice.

And I was talking about that when saying “skill ceiling” and l2p issues.

While Rev cond pressure is easier and herald support is somewhat afk material for most part.

Well as main thief, the problem is not evades/blocks/dmg, we are ok with thiefs and mesmers on that sense.

Is the way my mesmer have a lot more options on team support and defenses, while my thief main attack was backstab that got uttely destroyed and our main defense was stealth that now meta builds have “reveal”.

We could find alternatives to attacks and alternative to defense on dodging now on DD. So each of those are not completely terrible at the moment, just bad.

Pretty much thief have 70% things that mesmer has on attack/defense sense.

The problem is that mesmer have the same possibilities that thief does while having team support and utility.

So…
Mesmer = Batman
Thief = Normal karate teacher.

I also have a secret build, but mine have 100% win ratio, you guys are close to it but will never find out because is a secret build that I will never tell anyone but I assure you it has 100% win ratio, can aply 30 stacks of confusion/torment/idk, bleeds on 2.32 seconds!.

Yeah!

…Ok.

Back to topic. I think if the question is about cond pressure and nothing else, than Rev would be better, also easier to play.

But chrono has very kitten high skill ceiling… every loss or fail on role attempt could be due to l2p issues.

Josh XT.6053:

No I want all of that stuff removed because what does PvE content have to do with Players vs Players?

In a boxing match, does a boxer get to go up to a dog and kick it to gain more points? No, they don’t, because it is a player vs player kind of match..

Poor dog…

They could sell it from gems tho…

That would open the possibility of someone buying ONLY one elite spec and not the totality of HoT if he doesn’t desire to.

Also would open the possibility of farming gold like a maniac than exchange currency for gems and get your favorite character elite spec without buying HoT, while still beeing kittenning hard to obtain it.

I Play cond DD (played cond Thief before HoT) and I can’t make celestial go below 90% to start cond bursting, not dire/carrion or ravanger can do it (used all 3 for long time)

My perplexity dire mesmer (now chrono) also can’t get a celestial ele/tempest below 90%, he will outsustain and cleanse all.

That beeing said my favorite two builds are totaly unable to kill “tanky” eles.

AND I don’t get angry when I encounter then, as they also can’t kill me on neither those 2 classes, on WvW I’m used to dueling then for 1-2 minutes than just stand and do “salute” emote and leave… every ele I faced until today agreed on this stalemates and never followed me either (on wvw)

Imo conds are strong and I think there is no problem on existing ONE hard-counter to dedicated cond builds.

If you think about it DH/Reaper are still tougher to face, and they don’t have diamond skin (lol).

Pain response helps a lot on my experience, think you should take it unless you plan on going for d/p on a weapon set.

Pain respons also gives regeneration… and somehow Escapist is not enough cleanse to completely negate cond pressure. (Idk why, 1 cleanse per sec makes us think it would)