Here is a sample of the petition that I am building. Please give it a look and provide feedback on any portion of it. I will not be ready to submit this petition until I finish the skill list and finish balancing their interactions.
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- Redo the weapon skill system: make the left side of the bar customizable.
-Add 2 new skills for each slot, for each weapon. 58 new skills per class.
(The ideas is that each slot can be chosen to have a skill that reflects a specific quality: such as Damage, Control or Support. Although control does not necessarily mean immobilization, an support does not mean a solid heal. For example, a sword is currently set up for conditions. You would be able to instead set it up for more of a suppot role with Melandru’s Strike which grants buff/heal, or Igneous Rage which may grant a small daze. I am still fine tuning skills, and so these are just examples pulled out of my aft. I want players to be able to take up multiple types of play styles within their class. Guardian will still be better at support, but Ranger will be able to provide a different form of support other than just those silly spirits.)
-Add 2 new skills for each slot, for each underwater weapon. 20 skills. (Water skills would be balanced independently because obviously, they are only used under water.)
-Add 47 new PvE only utility skills to each class. Obtainable through jumping puzzles and dungeon completion, as well as Survivor Title completion.
(This will promote far more current-game and end-game exploration and play-ability.)
- Lower cool downs on utility skills by approximately half of their current time.
-Add a dueling system.
Give players the option to be “Ready to Duel.” While this option is selected, the player may give or receive duel challenges and has an icon next to their name. Players can request to duel other players. If a player denies them, they cannot request again for 30 seconds; however, the play who denied the request, may then request to duel the play that they recently denied. This will make it so you can still duel with people that you accidently duel with, but will not be harassed to be dueled by someone. When this option is turned off, no players may request a duel from this player. A duel would spawn a impassible dome around the players, similar to Shield of Absorption. The dome will not be visible or effect anyone’s mobility except the dueling players, the same function that you see when you harvest a node. This is to prevent obnoxious domes popping up everywhere you go…
That is fine Premixed. I’m not asking to have this be Guild wars 1. I was giving you an example of previous variety.
The aim for this is simply an increase in skills, not a Warrior-Guardian-Theif-etc mix. The idea behind it is allowing players more opportunnities to experient with different roles. Damage, Support, Control, without being limited to a specific weapon. And to be able to do so in multiple ways. Nobody wants to spam the same skill all day.
So to clarify. No W/A. xD Warrior will have only warrior skills. But there will be more warrior skills to choose from at any given time. Make sense? You are still a warrior. You are still unique. But now you can stand out from other warriors who have the same weapon as you, in more ways than you currently can. And you can now also create you own skill bar, making your game even more enjoyable. You are now YOUR warrior, not just A warrior. Make sense?
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
Stefandawson, I think you may have actually dealt the Final Thrust to future “this is a new game” posters. Thank goodness!
Stefan, do me a favor and don’t get into a drunken brawl with any Dwarves until we finish this development with Guild Wars 2.
Last time that happened, you disappeared till I beat Guild Wars 1. xD
I guess my whole point of this is, the way we choose skills has been set, by design and explained. I totally agree there is no where near the amount of skills to choose from or combinations. By design.
Combat speed, skill downtime are valid concerns and easily tweaked, assuming they can be balanced across the board.
Welcome to the Darkside. xD
I’m not saying things must come now, but do you at least see that in fulfilling these points, they cannot hurt the game?
Premixed, he is addressing everyone else not you. I’ve have countless people try to yell at me for this being a new game. Not targeted at you.
“You are safe.” xD
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
AT Stefandawson, AYEE!!! THANK DWAYNA! ANOTHER INTELLIGENT BEING!!!
“Guild Wars 2TM will draw from the game mechanics that made the original Guild Wars one of the most popular online games ever and will add a fully persistent world.”
I honestly don’t feel like they drew anything from the mechanics except the names of the skills. LOL. Hence this freaking thread.
Thank you for pulling that up. I didn’t even think to look for that.
The access to 15 skills at a given time quote is referring to 5 weapon skills times 2 weapon sets, plus heal, utility and elite.
You make a choice on each weapon slot, plus you make a choice of the 5 secondary slots. Thats the equivalent of 7 slots.
I havn’t played guild wars 1, but from what I gather just reading this thread, the weapon in GW2 is acting like the Elites did in GW1. They form the base of your build, and you’re given skills to compliment the intention of that base.
Sir. You have earned a cookie. That’s probably the most intelligent thing I’ve hear anyone say on these forums. My question to you now though, is: What purpose does the Elite Skill now server if the weapon is an Elite equivalent?
You have earned great respect from that comment. You are the first (counter?) argument I’ve seen with something of true value.
I would still have to say, the the sheer volume of skills available in Guild Wars 1 allowed for a far greater amount of bar-creation.
So, since you have not played Guild Wars 1, the best way I can try to explain it to you is this:
You have a primary profession with a Primary skill, which basically gives you a unique identifying (Trait), if you will. The primary skills gives you access to anything from, more energy, lower skill energy cost, better healer, energy upon enemy death, armor penetration, energy on critical etc. So, if I want to take advantage of those Primary, I must be the profession that has the primary attribute.
To step things up, any profession could use any weapon, but you have to make your second profession the profession capable of wielding the weapon you wanted. So, Warriors have Hammers, Swords, Axes, etc. Welllll, I want my warrior to have daggers, so I make him part Assassin. Make sense? (You could also just wield any weapon you wanted to, because it looked cool… even if you could not use it effectively. Kind of sucks not being able to walk around with my Dhuum Scythe on my ranger.)
Now that I am W/A, I can use either my Hammer, Sword, Axe, Daggers, Shield. And my primary attribute will be armor penetration. So although, I do not have to use my primary attribute, it can help depending on your build. If I am seeking to kill light-armored targets, I do not need armor penetration. Make sense?
Since I am part Assassin, I also have access to ALL Assassin skills. So, I can now shadow-step to my foes, bash them with a Hammer, etc. Or, I can use my Daggers and destroy heavily armored foes quickly. Because Dagger mastery is not a primary attribute, and it increases my chance to hit twice. So now, I am this tanky, but very powerful mass of W/A against heavy targets. My trade-off is that Warriors have slower energy regeneration, and I do not have many ways to gain energy. So my build must now be made to compensate for whatever points I chose to neglect. There will always be a strength and a weakness. A solid Assassin is squishy, but deals heavy damage to lighter targets. I can be A/W and use the Warriors hammer to knock down my target, and unleash a deadly fury of my double-strikes.
Now, between my Warrior and Assassin professions, I have a total of 400 skills. These skills, while they cannot be swapped in the match, can be swapped for free at any time that I am in a town or outpost. If I want to modify my build in any way, I can learn from my errors and do so once I win, lose or… leave. Now, as a Warrior, I can be more than an Assassin; I can use any of the other 9 professions. So, assuming each profession has 200 skills. I can use up to 2000 different skills to make my build. (Some professions have less skills, the actual total for all classes is 1235) So, thing about that. Even if 235 skills were incompatible with your build, you still have 1000 skills to choose between for that 8 slot bar. (Which, is a Risen-ton of combinations.)
You could use any weapon you wanted, and skill you wanted. You could make a Warrior that used water magic to freeze is foes, fire to burn them. You could make your warrior throw spears at people, FRENZY MENDING, etc etc etc.
Now, if you compare that to Guild Wars 2, the only thing that currently out-shines the Guild Wars 1, is that you can change your weapons out of combat. But think… Can you imagine, having to walk allllllllllllllllllll the way back to town, just to change your skills? That would be stupid. In thus they HAD to make weapon swapping out of combat allowable. Otherwise you would leave the game on the spot because you would sure how truly limited you are.
Your weapon swapping out of combat is no different than my swapping in town, because the second I left town, I was always in combat.
I hope this helps clear things up for you.
I’ve clearly been spoiled for Guild Wars 2 by playing Guild Wars 1, what in the world was I thinking?
lol. I can’t even enjoy PvP on other games after Guild Wars 1. lol. Apparently Guild Wars 1 made me a bitter perfectionist. xD Every game I play… “Not Guild Wars.” It needs a commercial.
Good thing Guild Wars wasn’t also a first person shooter, or I’d have to live in a hole the rest of my life.
I think it’s funny that people hate on Anet for having small server issues, but they leave the entire skill system unchecked with the excuse: “It’s a new game, what do you expect?” LOL. I dunnnooooooooo, maybe the same thing you expect.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
All your examples and changes are referring to Guild wars 1, but you say you dont want to make it the same.
Correct. Sorry, getting a little tired. It is getting late.
You understand correctly that I do not want Guild Wars 2 to become Guild Wars 1. However, I do not want the developers to throw away some of the aspects that make the previous game enjoyable. Make sense? New ideas are great. I am a huge supporter of change. But when you take out the key components that made a game successful, and replace them with new elements that are drastically below par, that is where I feel the need to step in and say: “Hey, that’s not right.” The skill system is the only thing I have huge beef with. The dynamic event system needs to just be less repetitive, that’s an easy fix. Just takes a little love to branch them out like they did with the dungeons.
Yes, you are right. I will admit that Guild Wars has had it’s fair share of time. But I’ll bekittenif some half-aatxe skill system is to over-take it and claim to be superior. I am seeking to improve the game, not from the bottom up, but from the key elements that are missing love.
Wait until I compile all of this into an abridged version, then we can actually start caring about how many people agree or disagree. Then we can take a poll and see how many people actually want or would like to possibly see these changes implemented. If the outstanding vote is against it, so be it. I will accept my loss. I will not give up my cause, but should the poll weigh in favor that this system in perfect, I will acknowledge that fact as so.
As of right now, this is a discussion to help people from both sides add information regarding the subject. That is why it urges me when people come here and post “You are wrong” with nothing backing it. This isn’t a child’s play fight. This is a mature thread, for people looking to improve the game as a whole.
If someone comes here with data against my points, I will effing hug you. I am seriously, expectantly waiting for someone to shoot me off this ‘High-Horse’ that some of you think I am riding. You have no idea how happy I would be for someone to actually put in a little elbow grease and do research against me. I would freaking love you forever.
relax bro, give the game a year or so, im sure u’ll have plenty more builds available. long story short, GW1 was not a good pvp game. it really wasnt, objectively speaking. making constant comparisons to a horribly balanced pvp title does not help your arguments.
That honestly depends on your opinion, but many vets and myself beg to differ that it was a great PvP game that required attention to details and lots and lots of teamwork. The game being horrible in your eyes do not make it horrible in everyone else’s eyes, and therefore my points are still valid.
Also, lol. READ UP. <3 I have said several times. I am not seeking an immediate fix. In fact it says it on this same page, I’m pretty sure. “I am perfectly fine with these points being implemented in a future update or expansion.” I don’t know how many times I have to post that till people start paying attention.
Another main point, is that the developers who made the game should have though deeper about how long someone could use the same skill repeatedly until they got bored.
You are trying to insist that there are 15 skills for the characters life? you can change weapons and utility skills whenever you please out of combat.
My point is, assuming you have 5 skills per weapon, generally speaking. And 3 weapons (not including underwater.) You have a total of 15 ‘static’ skills. You can swap weapons, but you can never swap the skills? Make more sense? I hope that clarified that for you.
In Guild Wars 1, if you only have 5 slots, you could fill it with numerous chains, combos, skills, etc. Given that in the original, chains were not compact. Even with that being said, there were far more total chains, and skill options available to a player than there currently is.
You currently get 1 chain per weapon. So, that is 9 skills. Correct? And then (assuming off hand doesn’t change for the simple point of a demonstration) you have 4 more skill slots that never change. In Guild Wars 1, those 5 slots could be filled with chains, single skills, skills from other professions, etc.
I am really truly honestly, not trying to shoot you down. And I do greatly appreciate having a mature conversation/debate with you.
Also, I do not fully understand your post, as I already went over the theoretical “out of combat” equivalent for Guild Wars 1. Please clarify and illiterate. Thank you.
Stefandawson, “Anger will never overcome ignorance. Clarity of mind is the only peace in unsettling waters.”
Just leave him be to boil in his own pot. We have made out points; he can move on or tantrum on his own time. He is just an attention seeker who will get no more attention. Amen.
“You seem to find yourself overly important.”
Nope, but sadly, unlike you I am putting in effort to improve the game. And I am doing it in a productive way. I am not sitting here trying to troll people, like you are. I am doing my research before posting, an taking other people’s ideas into consideration when they provide valid input. The sad part, is that people with counter-arguments simply have no supporting evidence.
Nothing has been ignored. Please re-read the above content until these facts settle into your head. Everything has been simplified for you as much as humanly possible, and I cannot spoon feed you any longer.
Your ignorance is bliss. I have nothing left to say to you since everything you have left to say is extremely illogical and irrational. Good day to you sir, and may your future endeavors be full of epicosity.
Any further posts by you will be completely disregarded.
Now, the only thing I ask is that the moderators make sure that you do not turn this thread into a hate-thread. So that it may remain productive.
Thanks.
Next article:
“That means you have access to 15 skills at any given time” (… for the rest of your life) lol.
Others and myself would much rather have static skills in combat and have more variety to change things up. I’m sorry, but 15 is a joke. I could come back at you with: “Because Guild Wars 1 was an instanced world, being in town was the equivalent of being out of combat. Even with just 5 slots available, I could come up with far over 50 combinations. Oh wait. Combinations? You mean to say that they aren’t just static forever? “That’s right sir! You have a nearly unlimited number of skills and combinations! You are no longer bound to using 15 skills for the rest of your life!” Oh sorry, my world was in reverse for a second.
" to those players who either aren’t interested in the deck building aspect (or are just not that good at it)" “To people who don’t care to customize their game, or suck at it.” Youuuuuuu meannnn someone who is too lazy to make their own build, or simply sucks at making it? Practically word for word, from YOUR source. <3
“One of our designers did the math and the possible number of combinations is in the millions.” Can you say Trillions for Guild Wars 1? xD
“you can just choose to play with the people who happen to be around you while you’re out adventuring. This is made possible through shared goals, and dynamic content” Again, I am fine with an open world, yada yada yada, learn to read, etc etc etc. Guild Wars 1 forced you to be social, otherwise you couldn’t get through some places. Just saying. (Till Heros came in, or unless you were a boss at flagging Henchmen.)
As for the last statement: “Players will be unable to change professions in Guild Wars 2. We’ve designed each profession in the game to be very distinct and different from each other, and many of our game systems take that into account.” I think that qualifies for being put up in a poll. Because as far as I’m concerned, most of the skills across all classes are nearly identical, other than the name and animation. There are slight differences, yes, but nothing that really defines each class as being truly different. However, Elementalist weapon skills, Turrets, etc… I will say, are very nice ideas for the game.
Again, media hype is not research. Please research more before posting. I look forward to your future response. Hey, I may seem like a [duck] now, but truth be told, everything I’m saying is spot on. And you have still yet to prove me otherwise. In face, I just used your own post against you. Touché sir. Touché.
Your college professor would slap you for using a blog as a source. What has this world come to? Why is valid research no longer important to people? Are Facebook, Twitter and Blogs seriously the only source of “intelligent” information that people read nowadays? Does anyone here actually sit down and think about things? /facepalm
You want research and evidence?
Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto
Third paragraph – “Guild Wars 2 is the perfect game for Guild Wars players, but it’s not just the same game repeated again”Nine GW2 Follow Up Questions with Eric Flannum
The entire first question dedicated to this exact issue. Back in May 2010!
Yeah, too bad you did not read what I just posted. If you are going to repeat yourself on an assumption that you made up yourself, I’m not even going to respond to you. It would be a waste of my time to converse with someone who has assumed and is hell-bent to uphold their preconceived assumptions, despite everything pointing against their silly claims.
“You execute the same strategy over and over again, just augmented over time with better and better gear. After a while it starts to feel like you’re playing a spreadsheet. Combat needs to be about making creative choices, and it needs to feel immediate, active, and visceral. Combat needs to be about making creative choices, and it needs to feel immediate, active, and visceral. " Oh look! Traits! Oh look! The whole reason of this thread! Because others and myself got pulled into the media-hype and were hugely let down!
“GW2 adds even more possibilities for distinguishing yourself in combat. Now you can choose a race, and each race comes with unique combat abilities, such as the Norn’s ability to transform himself into a bear.” Oh looks, racial skills aren’t in PvP and you get like what… one?
“What I covered here is just the tip of the iceberg.” Actually, that is the entire ice-cube. (;
That entire article is nothing more than media-hype. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that. lol. I can think of a million ways to tell you how absolutely amazing my shirt is right now. All of my exaggerated talk does not somehow magically make my shirt some super-hero outfit, despite how much my text may imply it.
" game companies don’t have to just keep making the same games over and over again to be successful." Funny because Guild Wars 2 is a conglomeration of every single MMO on the market. xDDDDDDDDDDD
So how about your research round 2? I look forward to another good laugh! Sorry, but a media-blog is not research. I really can’t believe you seriously tried using a blog as a source of viable research. xD That is like, the frosting on the cake, that fell off the party-hat-wearing Dolyak.
Actually, he’s right. You did ignore his point.
He said that you want Guild Wars 1, and this is not it. This is a different game.
Someone doesn’t need to write out an essay to tell that this clearly isn’t the game you were looking for.
Also, the devs have their hands full with the current amount of trait/skill/gear combinations and balance. Your idea is too farfetched to even blink an eye at.
Whatever makes you content to believe. Farfethed you say? Impossible you say? I’m possible. If you wouldn’t happen to notice simply by reading, I am saving the developers countless hours by doing research and formatting skills, events, and end-game for them. lol. This requires no use of their time in present tense. If you would read the thread, you would also see that I mentioned having this content possibly added in a further update or expansion. There is plenty of time from now until then to take these ideas into consideration and implement them at a later date.
You posted before I had a chance to type my response, and that is fine. I will simply tell you both to look up.
As to being impossible, I personally believe that one can accomplish anything if they put their mind to it. It make take countless hours of work, often going unrewarded in the least, but it can happen. If the developers ever truly agreed with any portion of what I am posting about, they could and most likely work in their free time to add such content, if they felt compelled to do so. And that is my intent, to compel them to do so. To stress the significance of these points.
It is people like you that I can see freaking out when staff members introduce the “Commando” class on April fools; Something that they made on their free time… And you yell at them for wasting your money and their time? Psh.
Stop trying to come up with pathetic comments about, “This isn’t Guild Wars 1,” “Learn to play,” “Stop whining” or “This is not your job, it’s Anets.” …Or even “You are wrong.”
If you don’t have anything constructive to post, don’t waste you energy typing a response.
Veritech, First off, there will always be Elitist groups no matter where you go, that require that everything be done a specific way because “This way is the best.” To my personal experience, most of these players do not know their head from a hole in the ground and have no basis of their opinion other than the fact that they are comfortable with what they currently have and do not want to stray from that zone.
Another factor, was that many Elitist groups used builds that were generally able to be used easily with repetition and practice.
For example, a WoH monk is fairly simply to run once you get the hang of it. WoH monks, as you may well know, were all over the game. They were fairly well balanced, and worked well for a variety of environments. This was true for other builds, but people were just too lazy to sit down and experiment. I however, greatly enjoyed the that option of creativity, and am thus seeking to bring it back.
I however, like to be creative and find new ways to make effective builds. I came up with a monk build, that on most condition, provided me with a near endless supply of energy and MASSIVE heals that I could spam. The build also contained, mostly-perma anti-melee. I can guarantee you that you have never seen this build before, as I am pretty darn sure that I invented it. Yes, it was VERY high micro, but it was WELL worth the effort.
I highly anticipate your snide retort.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
Please do give me examples of the role variations you speak of, (and demonstrate how they are superior to Guild Wars 1), as I feel that I have provided sufficient data counteracting that statement. It is very clear that the type of damage or trait setup you have is defined based on what weapon you use.
The trait system needs a complete rework, not just spice. Unless you like your soup with nothing more than water and oil. They put together an idea and left it half-completed. Traits in no way refine your character, they simply add minor bonuses to the stats you’ve already chosen, mainly based on the weapons you have equipped. This was also covered previously in the thread.
The main point of this thread is to bring up the creation and development of larger skill pool, that will allow players more creatively, and less repetitiveness in their combat. Simply adding 5 skills to each of the slots associated with each weapon would accomplish this.
The second point of this thread, is to stress the need of a larger pool of utility skills and lower the awful 2 minute long recharges that allow you to use most skills only once in each combat situation. Because this, in no way promotes dynamic, critical thinking in combat. It promotes stagnant kiting and healing, mixed with infrequent and inadequate dodging.
The third point of this thread, is to promote more entertaining ways to acquire skills, such as completing jumping puzzles, finishing dungeons, using combo fields, etc. This would allow people great current-game and end-game opportunities, allowing for them to expand their possible skill-bar into more enjoyable, more unique styles. This would also make it so that players who have completed the game, not have new things to do. New skills to seek, acquire and use.
Now, just to be clear a second time. I am in no way dismissing anyone’s opinions, unless, as has happened countless times before, you bring me a statement with nothing to back it up. I have spend countless hours accumulating this information and posting it, (although not in the most beautiful format) for all to read. And then people come around arguing against the clear data I have provided with nothing more than: “You are wrong.” And honestly I laugh a little inside. You are telling me, someone who has done research and posted it, that I am wrong, when you in turn have done nothing more than express your un-educated opinion. Or, have expressed your educated opinion with no proof that you know what in the world in you are talking about. Which, by the way, ends in the same result: Your statement meaning nothing of any kind of value.
This is a constructive thread. If you have nothing constructive, or informative to say, you may as well not even post.
Now, as before, I kindly ask you, and everyone else to come back when you have done research, and post your counter-argument with your results against my proposition.
Thank you very much for your time.
You want Guild Wars 1, updated. You dont want Guild Wars 2. You want another expansion. Exactly the same formula, only new content. You expected this and are bitter it is not to your expectation.
Not at all. That is actually already covered in the thread. I was, and have always been looking forward to the sequel of the game. With the understanding that it would be entirely different. I however, was not expecting them to drastically reduce the skill required to play the game, nearly all tactical concepts involved in team-work, nor was I expecting the ocean of skills to be reduced to a shot-glass full of water. I was expecting as much work to be put into this game, as the previous game.
I have known full well since the original talk about Guild Wars 2 that it would be an entirely different playing field. I have also already stated that I see GREAT potential in this game, and that overall it has a lot to offer. It simply needs love and devotion.
The dynamic events are repetitive and need nothing more than someone who will sit down and expand them: Bandits will not just attack the same farm over and over, they will block trade routes, harass villagers, infiltrate other building. By expanding the dynamic events, in such a way, the game will feel much more alive, and thus far more enjoyable, even on repetitive completions. The events will overlap and branch out, exactly the same as how dungeons currently work. Although yes, it is the same dungeons, their are multiple outcomes based on whether players succeed or fail on a specific part of the event tree.
The skill system is amazing, minus the fact that it is dry and repetitive. The movements involved in combat now allow for so many options that were never available in Guild Wars 1. I do greatly admire and appreciate that. However, even with that addition, the skill recharge has been significantly raised to the point that players can no longer be involved in fast-paced combat for more than the first few seconds of the fight. After an allotted time, your skills are all cooling down, and your dodge bar is empty. This leaves room for nothing more than fleeing and healing, give that you are not being dragged back and forth by your foes or countlessly interrupted on your 1 healing skill.
As to clear roles, I would have to argue against that. There are no roles. You are all the same thing with a slightly different flavor. That has been acknowledged since release. Support is a must on every player, as by yourself, you are simply not able to heal your entire team, put out enough damage to take out a boss, etc. Your work is directly linked into everyone else’s effort. All of you, as a whole, are 1 role. Apart, you are nothing. That is another thing that has been stressed since release: All players will contribute equally.
As for character creation, I feel no different from my importance as a Hero from Guild Wars 1. Sure, I have more options for my hair, but that does not mean I am any more or less important based on how many shades I can dye my hair. Now, on my personal opinion, the identity you have is not noticeably defined. I am a generic hero, exact I look different from other players. As is true with other games. The interactions that I have with NPCs seem to do nothing more than give me slightly different, non-game-effecting speech options. As far as I know, the cinematics do not change, you ultimately come out the same in the end. Now, I do realize that you can choose to, say, defend one place instead of the other etc, etc, and that is cool, and makes me feel more involved, but it is in no way a must to make me want to play the game. The story was captivating (to me) enough to play it regardless. Having these options does make the game more enjoyable. Those options are also something I am very pleased to have introduced to the game.
Missions still exist, they are called Storylines. :P The only difference is you no longer have the need to bring Heros or Henchman along in order to complete this. This was to make the game more available for casual players. And to make your role seem more important. When you travel with 7 other people, doing the same mission, generally speaking, you feel that your value is diminished, as someone else could be doing more work than you.
Open world, although I admit that I was wary upon the initial mention, I do greatly enjoy this new addition. The instances still exist, but overall it is nice to meet a few new people while traveling, and to make friends while resing downed explorers. I do however feel like the game is less social, because everyone is running past each other on their own goals, compared to friendly chatting during the downtime that they look for a group. This, is something that I am perfectly fine with as well, even if it is a completely different playing field.
I am fully expecting you to dismiss this like you have with everyone else who doesn’t think your way.
I’m sorry to hear that you have that view. It is pretty clear upon reading what I typed, that it is not blatant “shooting down” as you seem to see it as. I have actually done research and provided documentation detailing my beliefs. All counter-arguments that I have seen thus far have nothing behind them, and by all means that gives to the right to assert that thus far, the information I have provided is correct.
You are more than entitled to your own opinion, and a fully respect that. But as with everyone else, I ask that, in order to clearly define why you are against my points, you provide counter evidence.
You will notice I have provided countless skill examples, combination examples, solid data, skill bars, et cetera. I kindly ask you to do the same. Yes, it requires work, Immense work, and time. But in order for your counter-arguments to have any weight what-so-ever, it is a must.
Also, I have already gone over the fact that due to time restraints, I have had not time to fully organize this thread. I really wish I had, but I have a life outside of this thread, and it takes lots of time to preemptively organize these threads. I spend my (usually) very little free time I have to post in these threads. I realize that the texts can get quite hectic, thus is what happens to many people. When this thread is filled with more information, from both sides of the spectrum, and when I have the time, I will be able to organize this into an easier to read format. Thank you very much for reading through it, as I do greatly appreciate it, even if it troubles your mind to have to deal with it’s chaos. Hopefully, in the near future, I will have this thread organized into the easy-to-read format in which you seek. Keep in mind though, that any additional data or input will be hectic upon original submission and will need to be gathered and refined again, exactly the same as it’s previous counter-part.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
To any moderators reading this, I want to let you know, that although I am not finished with the skills and the maps/pvp formats and dynamic events, I am currently compiling and abridging the current information provided in this thread, into an easier to read format. Thank you for your time.
Sorry but I disagree with most of those. The game needs skill variety badly. People should not have to grind for skills either, it should be enjoyable. Please view
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Improved-Combat-Skill-system/
Control F, search for “Sword Examples.”
[Free argument] The game needs a much larger variety of skills. 3-5 more per slot for each weapon. And about 30 more utility skills. All of these need to be included with the original hero creation.
and
[Other Argument] Skills should be obtained in a non-grindy, fun to play way.
Examples being:
Skill combos-
Shooting an arrow through fire – Burning Arrow
Doing a Shiverpeak jumping puzzle, unlocks a skill/chain at the end, not just a vita.
Completion of a storymode dungeon would award a related skill.
Please view my post for more information.
I actually do not support many of those ways listed, but I will post on that thread.
To Premixed,
Due time my time restraints, I have to go run errands.
I have however, quickly gone through and bold-ed several points that I did not previously cover. In time, I will progressively re-organize information and make it easier to access and read. Up until that point, please be patient and realize that this is a much larger task and time consumption than you may realize.
I completely agree with you 100% I rarely play guild wars 2 because of it.
May I suggest making a petition rather than making a forum?
That is the hopes. First I have to make this thread, and have people contribute their ideas. To make a movement, I have to make sure everyone is on the same page. Please tell everyone you know to come and place their commentary, for or against the points that I have provided. The more people that contribute, the more fully I can organize an abridged version to submit to Anet.
With a large enough community, you can accomplish anything. Even if that means we just have to overwhelm them. I am trying to do this in a friendly, productive way though, rather than doing a public stunt or demonstration. I want Anet to know that these statements are from our heart and not some rage-machine.
If you would be kind enough to spread this thread around, or even link it in your signature, that would be greatly appreciated and would greatly help to promote this movement. <3
Dang, that is like an essay. good luck having people actually bothering to read through that. (I know I had no inclination to)
I’m sorry that simple text deters you. In school you learn something called skimming. Basically, as you will notice, I bolded the main points of each portion. If this is too hard a taste for you, I am pleased to inform you that in the future there will be an abridged version in which all items will be bullet-ed rather than in essay format. Because this is currently a discussion, not a simply bug fix, you cannot expect anyone to simply list point by point. Why? Because then you have people coming with no no clue what they are talking about, trying to shoot down everything as if they understood any of it. At least you were honest enough to say you didn’t read it. Many others will come here and pretend like they read it, then make commentary as if they actually understood any of it.
Now, on top of the bold-ed ideas, you will also notice that there are categories. Given that they are not beautifully refined at this point in time, but for anyone with even half an interest, the text has been organized in a way that is easy for most to seek what they are looking for. Let your eye slide downward toward the text and make commentary on anything you feel that you have relevant information to respond to.
So, either you just don’t care, which is fine. You are in the same hole as others Or you simply are lazy. Either way, that is fine by all means as well. It is not unlike countless others who cannot spend 5 minutes intelligently skimming through text.
Next time you do your homework, do not read the whole book front to back looking for one sentence. Skim, usually looking for bold-ed topics, or obvious points of interest and within that section, look for something pertaining to what you are looking for.
If you are here without caring, you might as well not even post if you have nothing to say that contributes to the discussion. I apologize for the bite, but in all ways this is true.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
In a way, I feel like I am doing your job. And I’m fine with that. I’ve spent countless hours of my life fooling around designing games on my computer, scrapping them and remaking them. At least now, even if it never happens, I am putting my effort toward something that truly matters. Something that could potentially change the course of many people’s gaming future. If you want a game to defy all games, stop trying to become other games. Guild Wars 1 broke the mold, and now you are breaking the game. You are now nothing more than a conglomeration of other games that have been released. I have no idea why you thought standing out, meant dressing up like everyone else.
I can say that I, myself, never log onto Guild Wars 2 anymore, other than for testing purposes. Although that is quite frequent, based on the amount of work I have to do. I want you to know that I despise every second that I am connected to your servers. Seriously, from the deepest part of my hard. From the sappiest speech I have. “I was one of your biggest fans.” I remember as a kid, always wanting collectors edition. To, throw my money at you for making such a great game. Come now, I buy collectors, and now want nothing more than to throw your game in the trash, if nothing more than symbolic disrespect for the lack of care you put into the creation of this game.
To your environmental artists, you are out of the fray. You have done a SPLENDID job at making your maps, PvE and PvP alike. You have thought hard and long about the design of each and every zone.
To your server technicians, coders, etc. Bravo. Although many people somehow miss the obvious updates and whine. You have done an amazing job at keeping the game up and running, an running smoothly. You really have.
To the people who designed the skill pool, functions, dynamic events, removed the true call function, removed the pvp formats, removed the skill needed from the game, removed the progressive difficulty and the need to truly work together…. You all have been placed at the lowest place on my list. For other companies who have made games similar to yours, at least they did not know any better. You knew what made you strong, and left it sitting. In face, you put a paper bag over it’s head, hoping it would never be seen again. (That is partly untrue, because you still keep Guild Wars 1 alive, and I do greatly appreciate that.)
I want you to know, that I would put in countless hours to theoretically develop this game into a more enjoyable, more productive use of time. Even if things never change. If they never do, I will be sitting right here, that thorn in your side. Reminding you of the things you could potentially do differently. Things that, although (now) require a lot of work, can be done, and would cause your game to skyrocket in sales, players, enjoyment, and longevity.
But until then, expect me to discourage each and every person that I see, stranger and friend alike, to never even considering purchasing your game. Or, at the very least, trying the game before they buy it, so they can see how horribly boring and simplistic it is. And go spend there money on something actually worth the money.
The only thing I can honestly give you a high-five for, is not taking on the heavy-greed oriented companies like Hi-Rez, (I know this portion of the post may be removed.)who overprice everything in the game in attempt to make a buck. Hi-Rez is another company that destroyed a game I loved. Tribes 2. And after their forums because nothing more than a haven of ignorant fan-boys, I left. And have done the same thing to them as I will do to you, should you never fix the error of your ways. I’m talking negative promotion up the wazoo.
To everyone who has read through this entire post, whether you agree or disagree: Thank you for taking the time to be a productive member of the still current, development of Guild Wars 2. Yes, the game will always be in development. :P Because ,(Not so much anymore) overall I (used to) think they care(d.)
Places like Fort Aspenwood, havens for all who loved their share of PvP has been reduced to this. With how you have your game currently, expect the same in the near future. As, I know, personally, I will be a huge contributing factor. Now, given people will be entertained up until they finish their personal story, maybe some lore, and each event once… It will take a while for everyone to get to that point. But as soon as those are all finished, expect to lose players. Expect to lose your fan-base, your lovers, your followers, and all those who valued you as a reputable company.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
@LanceHavenbay.2067, I could LITERALLY sit on vent for hours with you reminiscing of the golden age of Guild Wars 1. (Yes, that is an invitations) I LOVE Guil wors, you just don’t even know, best game hands down. I’m truly hurt by the direction they took this game.
I’m not even sure if anyone from the gw1 development staff even helped make gw2, seriously, can we get confirmation on this? Why did they feel the need to remove everything that was Guild Wars, from guild wars2? not just remove but crudely cut out with a dull rusted spoon…
Everything you said was dead on. I’ve asked myself the same thing, about whether or not the original developers made Guild Wars 2. Because, honestly, after Guild Wars 2 came out, I am now ashamed of the company that I used to love. Like you said, skill has been taken out of the game. The few tactics involved only play a small portion of your actual effectiveness in the game, unless you MUST flank, or immobilize a foe who is near a zerg. Watching skills has been removed. I mean… That would up the skill curve, if there was actually ever any skill worth rupting. Rupt the heal right? It is a pretty obvious animation. It’s like your guy raising his hand saying: “Ok! Hit me! I’m healing!” I’m fine with that. Am I fine with the fact that most of the time I am in organized pvp/dungeons I spend half my time being dragged or knocked in various directions? No. I mean, half the time I spend being dragged before I even get a chance to get up. The tactics of this game are now immobilizing your target. The second you do that, they have no way to counter anything you do. At all. No dodging, no nothing.
In Guild wars 1, I ran pretty much the equivalent to what I have now. Condition damage with cripples, a pet (and no heal.) I made use of strafing in Guild Wars 1. I would dodge out of range of pretty much everything I could to compensate for my lack of healing. And you know what? Even with the slow health recharge after exiting combat, I still managed to do well enough to regenerate my health enough to take a few more hits and do my duty.
In Guild Wars 2, I have a very well balanced mix of Toughness, Healing, Condition Damage and power. I have 1/3 my potential power, but having a maxed pet makes up for it. I run sword and shortbow, and can put up impressive damage on light and foe alike, while dodging better than most because of the use of my evade skills in conjunction with my +50% regen dodge rolls. But guess what? Kd and immobilize spam, seen pretty much everywhere you go…. You are dead. No question. At least in Guild Wars 1 I could put something into my build to prevent the obnoxious kd spam or control hexes. I could bring a warrior defense skill, Shroud of Distress, ANYTHING. Control skills aren’t meant to be solid game breakers. If you get blackout, sure it slows down your progress in your role, but it doesn’t ruin the whole match. The only way to get completely shut down was to not be paying any attention, or to have someone else have a bar dedicated to keeping you down and nobody else.
I’ll take you up on that offer once I find time. I’m mixing in my work and coaching and other errands. That and trying to make as big as an impact as I possibly can toward Anet. Because they haven’t just pushed me away, they have pushed many, MANY loyal vets away. Speaking of which, I’m forming a guild back in Guild Wars 1, trying to bring back Fort Aspenwood and Random Arenas. The pvp formats will be able to pretty much be guild run. <3 Meaning, if we get 16 active people on at once, we can do guild-scrims, FA style! If you are interested, let me know.
As for your caps edit… xD At least now I know someone from Anet is actually going over this. And I hope you are reading this too: I am spending countless hours of my personal time, creating skills for a game you already released. I am doing research endlessly on subjects that you should have already taken into account from 7 years of the previous game. Guild Wars, is by no means, Guild wars. No anymore. You have completely destoyed what it was, and what it stood for. Torn down the walls of my childhood, and I seek to rebuild them. I am not telling you to make Guild Wars 2 back into it’s previous form. I do understand that things do change with time. But for you to remove every single trace of your success? I hope you are ready to lose all of your followers as well. When I am finished writing the call system, skill list, pvp formats, pvp maps, dynamic event chains, title effects, costumes, etc etc etc…. I will be sending you one huge email detailing every aspect.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
I like the system having skills tied to weapon hand. I’d like to see a system where you can pick and choose somewhat like gw1 though.
for example: a sword might have 12 main hand skills and 12 off hand skills. you can pick 3 main hand out of the 12 and 2 offhand out of the 12 for your bar.
it keeps the flare of the current system, but allows the customization we crave.
If they did this alone, the game would DRASTICALLY improve. Even without more utility skills. If they added more utility skills as well, the game would be epically awesome.
…Then they would just need to fix the death system and end-game rewards such as titles, dungeons, etc.
Having “the best” gear was linked to accomplishment originally. Yes, some people just liked to brag, so what. It was more a matter of, if you had this max gear, you could get the job done better. That is what made you valuable.
With the model from Guild Wars 1, it was no longer about having the best gear. The level cap was 20, and all weapons had, generally the same stats. BUT, you have the ability to stand out of the crowd by making your very own builds, new combos, new ways to harass or heal, new ways to enjoy the game. You could create combinations that got things done better, or in different ways. You were on equal playing grounds, but at the same time you were able to be above them because you hand-built your build. You have the same skills that anyone else had access to, but you put them together more productively. That is what made the game enjoyable. When you sit here, knowing that you are in no way different from anyone out there, that your space as a character, as a person, is not more important than a simple, generic:" Hello, how is your day?"… how does that make you feel?
I spend most of my time working, or coaching. I am a very outdoorsy person. But When I come inside to relax, I do not sit down at my laptop hoping to press 1 repeatedly, or to do something simply for the sake of doing it. I want to be part of a community, I want to have a role that is important, valuable. You removed that from the game, and therefore my desire to play it. Honestly, the only reason why I stick around is because I see the great potential that this game has. Sadly, you gave me a glass with nothing in it but an idea and asked me to fill the cup for you. I’m generous, I have no problem with that. But it really urges me that you aimed for such an over-simplified game. Especially if you want a competitive player base… Is this a joke? You make everything the same and expect it to be competitive? Your game is like… two monks with 0 energy wanding each other to death. The only way to stay alive is to strafe repeatedly. (Dodging old-school.) Woah woah, hold on. Time to get my necro! (Wands) Warrior! (stab) what aboutttt a BOW! I can kill him with a bow! Sure, slight different from damage. but if you remove our skills, and our ways to truly stand out. That is what you have reduced this game to. Add slightly improved graphics, with more polygons, and make strafing more visually appearing… and vuala! Naked wanding! Aka, Guild Wars 2! I’d love to see that as a competitive E-sport. I should make a video. (;
Now, my end-all be-all response to Guild Wars 2’s model, of making everyone the same:
If you do research on organizational balance and adaptive infrastructure, you will come across these trends. I have quoted the following as they are not my own words, but do accurately describe what I am trying to say. You will find many sources of the same general wording.
“Successful teamwork depends on the right balance of people working toward shared objectives, with a supportive infrastructure and mechanisms for resolving any organizational conflicts.”
“This development requires a balance between an optimal level of risk and interdependence. Perhaps somewhat ironically, some minimal level of risk and interdependence are necessary to create opportunities to demonstrate trust. Without any risk or interdependence, trust is not necessary. " Without trust, there is no need. In the Guild Wars 2, there is no way to build trust or be value as a player.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
To Hieronumous,
“While I disagree with… well, pretty much everything here, I’m glad you put so much thought into it. Granted, it makes me feel a little guilty when I casually dismiss it, but it was an entertaining read.”
Thank you very much for taking the time to read everything. Perfectly fine that you disagree. I cannot thank you enough for actually reading everything and THEN telling me that you disagree. That is just as meaningful as someone telling me that they agree. The way I look at it though, “It can never hurt to make it better.”
To the rest of you, agreed. Nothing wrong with allowing players to pick whatever weapon they want, and giving them skills to accompany each. That does not have to be game breaking either. With the current system in place, I can honestly say that I believe a larger variety would not unbalance the game. The game is already very heavily weighed on needing to work as a team. Variety works hand and hand with that without forcing people to fulfill static roles. Because lets face it: The system currently in place removes needing specific roles, that means that there also are no roles to be played. Everyone is a fulcrum. Sure, you have ’balance…. ’ Why? Because there is nothing on top of it. You sit stale. You never change. You are this single, unimportant character. You are a mindless number. You have no sense of purpose in the game, and thus for some, no reason to play. The central point to keeping a games vitality intact, is keeping a constant flow of ideas and gameplay that is ever changing. In the new model introduced by Guild Wars 2, the one thing that keeps games alive and kicking, has been removed mostly, if not entirely from the game.
Now, to claify: The system in Guild Wars 2 currently removed the need for having specific healers, dps, etc. Those roles are spread across the board. HOWEVER, along with this, they also removed any and all variables. Without these variables, it is no longer fun to experiment. When you exhaust your already limited supply of skills, you have nothing to do but move to the next class. Then what? When you get there, you realize that many of the skills are nearly identical and that you are just doing the same thing with a different color tie. This grows old, very quickly.
I’m sorry Arenanet, but no matter how much you brag that your game is dynamic. It is anything but. You have made a game, in which everyone must enter under the understanding that everyone must run at the same pace, wear the same clothes, eat the same food. It is nothing more than a glorified marathon, in which, upon completion, offers nothing more than a “Hey, want to do that again?” There is no incentive, no reason to continue. Removing instances has not removed the spam of lfg… I see that just as much now as ever. You had many great ideas, and terribly failed at executing them. You, of all people, I had expected much harder thinking involved in making a game. You simply cannot make everything the same. You cannot remove incentives. People play to be rewarded. People work to buy a house and cool things to put in it. Nobody works just for the sake of taking up time. Or maybe some do? Maybe that is your new player-base? People who just play with you take waste their time? Sounds like that obnoxious person who only texts you because they are bored.
I do not work because I want to be better than anyone else. I work because I enjoy being able to buy new clothes, new games, have new things to do. Your game, is like my world in reverse. You work for nothing. You work with no end result. The only thing you have is “I have this title and you do not!” Yah, and I have a sticker that says “I’m with stupid” and you do not. Does that make me awesome? A little bit. But not enough to really matter. If I work to buy a nice care, fine. Dang right I’m going to show it off. Does this mean I am better than someone else? No. Why? Because everyone else on my street has a different car. All slightly better or worse, looking and performing slightly different. Some are for racing, some are for cruising around looking cool.
What is your game metaphorically? That little beater that everyone is forced to drive. The best they can do to make it stand out is get a little air-freshener with the words: “God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals” as if that means anything. At least in my world, I always had a reason to try harder, or to change my tactics. If someone’s car took off faster than mine, I could either match their acceleration, or have comfort knowing that I could beat them on the long stretch. And there are so many cars out there, that I will always be changing how I deal with it. Sorry for the analogies, but I am really trying to make this issues easier for people to understand.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
It really would would help yours, and everyone else’s case to do research and post it before making a comment with no basis behind it.
Now, in regards to being condescending, honestly, I could be hostile, but it would be a waste of time. It would not make people any less ignorant. That proof is all over. Now, what I do do, is get a little tired of having to repeat myself to people who are posting in a thread without reading anything about the topic they post on. Yes, if you don’t read a thread and post a response, dang right I’m going to call you on an ignorant comment. I owe it to you, because you make yourself look silly and uneducated, and I really don’t think you want to look like that. I have said time and time again, please read and research before posting, as it will only represent you for the better, and show that you have a clear understanding as to what is being discussed.
Leave out your childish comments and bring back results. Thank you.
Yes, some skills are used more often than others. Why? Well, honestly, some skills were designed better than others. But the main reason, is that many people seek specific roles. As in, the want the build to do something very specific, and are too lazy to come up with their own way and would rather use what someone else already came up with. Perfect example would be people using PvX wiki solely. It is meant to be a guide, or a place to get a sense of skill combinations. Many people used it as an be-all end-all. That is part of the reason why you see so many of the same builds, not because one is better than the other. Especially in Guild Wars 1, there was literally a counter to everything. WoH Bonetti Monk? My beastmaster would tear you up, or at least make you very very vunerable. (That is where teamwork comes in.)
Please notice that Elites in Guild Wars 1 define the build you use. Guild Wars 2, the Elites actually aren’t even needed in the build. Sure, they are helpful at times, but they really serve no great purpose. The skills in Guild Wars 2, have very few synergies. You can inflict direct conditions, maybe shoot an arrow through fire… but from what I have seen, the skills(or at least most) do not directly effect one another.
9 of these builds, I made completly on my own, through experimentation and personal playstyle preferences. I loved being a minion master that the monks loved to play with. <3
To Algreg, as full of little fanboys(that is condescending) this forum has become, most people who come in and make posts either: A: Have no clue about the topic they are posting on. B: Don’t care that they don’t know and post anyways just to feel cool/special. C: Don’t care to take the time to research and make a valid point.
So, if that was an attempt to troll. You failed. I would elaborate but it is really not worth anyones time. Rather than make snide comments, please contribute productively.
Now, because of this comment:
“even though there were a million skills in GW1, the variety was not as great as you imply. Only a few top notch builds were played for every class and many skills were very similiar apart from name and visual effect.”
I beg to differ on variety. *And yes the skills were similar, many were meant to serve similar purposes with slightly different effects, which in term altered how the build worked. *
Please pull up examples of what you mean.
Example that I have:
Make a foes bleed: Hunters shot is a standard recharge, low energy, bleed only effect. Barbed Arrows makes your arrows bleed any target you hit. The tradeoff is that it has a high energy cost and -armor while activating. Screaming Shot deals direct, extra damage along with bleeding, with the exception that is has a range. Melandru’s Arrows is an elite skill that is pretty much a conglomeration of those skills. It’s trade off is that it must strike enchanted foes to give the damage bonus. This is how an elite skill should behave! It should enable you to run similar functions at improved rates, for a small trade off. It being Elite, means that it is a more powerful skill than normal. And it is. Not rather than, choosing between 3 skills, you can (for the most part) use all 3 skills at once. The downfall, now you cannot use another great enlite skill such as Poisoning Arrow, Crippling Shot or Broadhead arrow. So to obtain those effects, you must use normal skills such as: Pin Down, Concussion Shot or Poison Signet. Each of which is less effective than it’s elite counterpart. This was te beauty of Guild Wars 1. Skills actually mattered in regards to how or what you used in your build. And you had options. MANY options. So, before you tell me that the game has similar skills, I will tell you: “Well yeah, but at least they aren’t all THE SAME like in Guild Wars 2.” (;
I have went and specifically made a small list of different skill combos that you can make with one primary profession in Guild Wars 1. I only put up skills that I myself have used in PvP(Mainly FA) with outstanding results. Keep in mind, if you add PvE, there is an ever larger variety of builds. Farming usually does not have many different builds, because to farm, you, generally speaking… Have to exploit the game mechanics/location. This requires specific skills, with little wiggle room on average. Examples would be DoA, MTsc, MQsc, that farm outside of D’Alessio Seaboard, etc.
Sorry the list is so small, I have things that I need to get done tonight and am trying to squeeze forum time in as well.
Sorry Aleiro, apparently I missed your post from long ago.
“I never used some skills, moreover all the warriors I saw were using my same build.”
There is something called meta, which moreso is a description of people’s tendancies to want to be perfect. In an environment where people develop builds, they will more often use skills that they see others use. If a player sees an effective build, they will most likely copy it, or take it as a primary format. Now, when you throw publicized events such as GvG, many plays will aim to reflect the “effective” build that they saw used. And in a counter to that build, another build will spring up to fight against it. Those builds will remain meta until someone comes and breaks the chain. That is always how it works in any game you will ever play, regardless of the genre. It is built into many people, to want to follow by example.
Cookie cutters are not even mentioned, and I strongly frown upon them because they are only effective within a very small scale of play. It means 1 quick kill, and then a long period of inactivity or largely reduced effectiveness. As you become more survivable, you lower the damage or defense, defending what you are substituting. I feel this is becoming especially true in Guild Wars 2, … dungeons aren’t pvp butttttttttt you knowww what’s wrong with that picture! xD
“It all comes down to what I have been saying in many posts like this, adapting to a new game, not making the devs adapt the game to you. "
My response to that: My view is based solely on the fact that my view was developed almost exclusively from Guild Wars 1. The developers made a sequel, and took out many key elements that made Guild Wars 1 fast paced and creative. Evolution is what is supposed to happen. Guild Wars 2 is that kitteny offspring that looks cool, but has lost it’s motor skills. This can be seen in far more than just the skill functionality. See call targets, and other mentions above.
“Still you only have 3 utility skills to choose, can’t use more than that. Even if they give you the 280+ skills to choose from you can use 3” It is simple math. Having more skills means having more combinations, thus a larger skill pool will be very beneficial.
Seras, I agreed completely. Level design I would give a 10. I mean, I create 3d environments for a hobby and manually test glitches etc. The map makers of GW2 spend their time VERY wisely. There are so few errors, and believe me, I check. xD Storyline I would give a 9. It WOULD be 10, but I do not like my character just standing around shifting his weight on his heels the whole scene… Pvp, taken from my GW1 past, I would give a 4/10. Amazing ideas, cool animations, poorly planned functions, TINY skill pool, Elites do not define anything, they are just a buffed up utility, weapon skills are static and bland, oh anddddd traits are not role defining, they are just little bonuses to what you already have… weapons never change, weapon skills get boring because they never change. Sure, w/e, I have a bow too. Cool. Now instead of hithithit, I can spam bleedbleedbleed. They need to review what they have and consider new skills with different funtions to make the game less repetitive.
To Rhaj, they need to add more skills to PvP as well. That is where the game is hurting the most. As least PvE has events and puzzles to make your mind have some sort of process going on other than 111111 kitekitekite.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
I went ahead and took Syouke up on his/her offer last night.
Thank you for the list Rtytuyi, I will keep you in mind should I have another guild space/time available.
-I’m pretty picky about the people I involve myself with. I usually seek people who are positive, upbeat and friendly like myself.
-Jade Quarry guilds only, please.
-The larger, the better. Close knit is a MUST.
-I like to talk
-I like to make friends.
-I honestly do not like having to deal with the immaturity I see in many guilds and am looking for people who know to act with dignity. I’m not looking for a stale, “Sir how do you do sir, would you like some sugar? -Yes, please thank you sir.” Strictness. I would like to be in a guild with well-mannered humans. I love to joke with people, talk about things that make no sense, etc. But blatant trolling or disrespect inside the guild a no go.
-Looking for a PvE focused guild, but am perfectly fine doing WvWvW as well.
-Time zone does not matter. It is nice always having someone to talk to when I log on.
-I am a GW1 Vet, have been playing since release.
-Playing with other GW1 vets would be nice, but I am more than happy to introduce new players to the game, if you can handle my nostalgia and GW1 commentary. (;
-If your Guild also plays GW1 still, that is a plus.
-I am 21, currently work, am a traceur in my spare time and play Guild Wars mainly for relaxation.
-My GF plays GW2 as well, although she plays less often than I because she does cheer etc.
-I have Vent/TS/Mumble, but often do not use it unless it if very important for the task at hand. Why? Usually when I play it is nighttime, or early in the morning and my roommates would hate me. xD
-I will pretty much ALWAYS be on my ranger. Don’t expect that to change.
-I am pretty critical in regards to the development of Guild Wars 2, as I am STRONGLY in favor of a better skill system, more complex dynamic events, more armors etc. If you accept me into your Guild, be prepared for hearing me talk about ideas for theoretical skills, PvP maps, events, etc. If you don’t want to hear that, you don’t want me.
-I would be VERY happy to find a guild with similar views in regards to talking about ways to improve the game, without necessarily saying “THIS GAME SUCKS,” because I do greatly enjoy this game. Buttttttt it needdssss some(LOTS) work.
-I love to make GW2 comics using screenshots, hosting scavenger hunts for Guild members are regarding the winners, and other various activities.
-I would make a dance video but my little college laptop can’t handle it. );
-I look out for my own. I am a very compassionate person and often put other people above myself, expect me to always be helping out, I enjoy it.
-I am pretty awesome. Everyone loves me, I love everyone. Win win.
-Oh, and I am in several other guilds that transferred from GW! I would be more than happy to represent your guild 90% if the time. The other 10% being me talking with my old time buddies who I do not currently have contact with in :O real life.
It’s very easy to make a thousand useless builds in GW1.
They wanted GW2 to have fewer builds, but have them all be at least playable.To add variety they introduced the Trait system.
At first you could pretty much put any Trait anywhere!
…but it just made everybody pick the best traits. The GW1 problem.
For every useless build you make, I can make 5 useful ones. And you are horribly mistaken if you think “everyone picked the best traits in Guild Wars 1,” because there were multiple, as in 10 or more counters to every single build on the market. There was not best.
You want to run the “OP Grenth Derv?” Fine, I’ll run Soul Bind, Parasitic bond, Soul Barbs. Cya kid. Or I can simply snare you and walk away and laugh as you -99% movement speed walk around the map not getting a single hit, etc etc etc.
If you would read the above articles, (so tired of telling people to read before they write) you would see that we already touched on that fact that traits do not add variety in Guild Wars 2. They give minor bonuses to what you already have. That is obvious to see. And if you really want to fight me on that: You cannot even place traits unless you have the stats using them.
Please read the above thread before you go and type about something that has already been covered. Do not come and post like you have a valid argument when you have nothing more than a comment that someone else has already made, and been shot down for. This thread is supposed to be productive, not pages full of “Sir, please learn to read.”
Also, as mentioned before. Please come with conclusive RESEARCH regarding any points that you would like to make.
Sincerely,
-Lance
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
Enough said. She is very… bleh. No emotion, no concern, no authoritativeness. Just plain, simple bleh.
The voice over should have her sound strict, if not harsh. Assertive, direct.
Sorry if it came across as a rant. This is just something that is very important to me and it bothers me how much has been neglected. That and I have people coming on here, not reading anything and trying to blindly jump around, acting like they know something.
Silver Chopper, I think you touched on something that I missed: The underpowered Elites. Exactly as you said it, was perfect. Bravo.
Lack of variety does not need to mean, stale, empty, lacking in nearly all aspects. As I said previously, having significantly less skills is fine with me. I understand that part of it. But having 100 skills, all of which are nearly identical across the board… That is the part that I am not ok with.
Hopefully in time they balance it, and hopefully they come across this thread on at least take into consideration that they skipped over a few very important details.
“and there’s your answer. GW2 will therefore be somewhat less customizable to accommodate proper game balancing.”
Somewhat? You meannnnnnnnnn approximately 1200 skills less, and almost a full minute longer recharge on nearly every skill? That seems like more than somewhat. Seriously, please look up, read. I already went over the fact that we do not need, and I am not asking for a Guild Wars 1 skill list. I already stated that 3, count them, 3 alternate skills, per first 5 slots, would make the game far more diverse and enjoyable. This would not overbalance the game. Not in the least. You are about 1200 skills less. Considering how well Anet worked under pressure with balance, some 1319 skills, they would do just fine with a net total of 300 skills. The game would be even more competition friendly, PvE would be more fun as well, and people would not get bored weeks after release.
Anddd that who point of having a beta is to have people help you test. /facepalm
Please read what I type carefully: 1/5 the skills of Guild Wars, would not be enough to throw the game out of balance, but it would be enough to make the game far more enjoyable for all.
" reason being, you can counter just about everything through proper positioning, dodging and avoidance, i.e. the use of your physical environment." isn’t this why Crowd Control spam is so rampant? /yes
So, overall, you are telling me, that to make something enjoyable, it must be simple and mindless? Funny, because that’s what most people aim to avoid.
Also, because of the way Guild Wars 2 is setup, you cannot make your entire bar the same as you could in Guild Wars 1. You have weapon slots and utility slots. Guild Wars 1 did not. Therefore, if you choose support skills in your weapon slots, your utilities better match it, or assist it, because that is what you traited for/gear up for. If anything, you’d just be more balance. You don’t have that hectic, “Oh hey I can do literally anything with my bar” anymore. That degree of exploitative customization has been removed. Thus, your argument is invalid.
so youre basically comparing a fresh, brand new MMO with completely new mechanics to something that has been out for SEVEN years? are you seriously expecting complexity right off the bat?
Well first off, this isn’t “Brand new.” This isn’t just some game thought up on the spot. The lore, the characters, the system, are all brought over and ‘refined’ from the previous game. So technically, this is supposed to be an upgraded 8th year.
Yes, I am expecting complexity right off the bat. They have, as I said, 7 years to design skills. I am actually, currently working on a project that converts all GW1 skills into GW2 playable skills. It really is not that complex, nor time consuming. The mechanics are not new, they are new to Guild Wars, if you exclude dynamic events, which really just need to be expanded so that they are not repetitive… that is common sense.
The whole point of this thread is that, they removed every single trace of what made the game customizable, and replaced it with a 70 skills list, which all classes being pretty much that same effing thing with a different look. Look up for examples on things they totally skipped out on, which would have only benefited the game, should they have kept them: Call system, chat system, pets evolving, etc.
Many highly-competitive base are either over-simplified combat systems, or simply based on maxing gear and dps. Guild Wars 2 tried to stray from that and ended in: Everyone is equal, in nearly every way, minute skill list, pre-made builds.
Guild Wars was so hard to balance BECAUSE of the fact that is was so customizable. People were coming up with new builds left and right, using them, exploiting them, figuring out ways to devastate their enemies. Such is the way of truly competitive games. Thinking, strategizing, planning your skills. Now, take that customization level, and times it by the high playerbase. That is a lot of things to keep track of. So I totally understand wanting to cut it down a bit to manage it better, but taking a gallon of juice, filling a shot glass, and dumping out the rest… is stupid. You threw away all the other fun, if not important parts of the game.
Oh and, attacks per second. About that: Guild Wars 1 had many ways to function, aps, control, defense/reflecting attacking, shutdown, which was usually VERY little damage and above all that, the placement really matters. Where were you, how were you moving. With the current mechanics, dodging does not accomplish much. It runs out, and there is a lot of kiting involved. The only time you ever NEEDED to kite in Guild Wars 1 was if you did not bring a single heal, you were trolling and wanted to make the RA team rage, or you were still learning to make a balanced build.
Yes. After 7 years they better get their stuff straight. Besides, they said they wanted to make everything perfect before release. They could have taken the time to plan it better. I would take 1 person, only 2 months to devise a GW2 equivalent of every single GW1 skill in the game. Testing it? That’s what beta is for. That’s what stress tests are for.
They have a viable platform right now for sure, problem is, without more fun involves, it will die. It is the initial hype, till you release you’ve completely run out of things to do, and you are sick and tired of using the same builds day in and day out.
Always having something to do: As a caster class in Guild Wars 1, now more than ever, there is always something to do. Whether that be healing, protecting, or casting defensive spells on them.
For example: Gust is your ’combo field" for melee kd/“swiftness.”
There are these types of skills and effects already in Guild Wars 1. Please do your research before you post. This ideas are not completely new. They are refurbished. They collected everything into a pile and ended up getting confused and throwing out the good stuff along with the bad stuff.
In no way is GW2 perfectly balanced, especially in turns of Crowd Control. Sure, they make the list of skills tiny, so there are less challenges to encounter, but that in no way implied balance.
Guild Wars 1 was balanced, but it was hell to manage it. And after years of managing it, expansions that added new skills, it got progressively harder and harder to maintain that balance.
Guild Wars 2 has great ideas, it does not need to become Guild Wars 1, it just needs to start thinking intelligently if it wants to thrive.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
I also forgot to say: As a previous fanbase, I do have say in the game development. I have contributed in stress tests and other developmental factors of Guild Wars 2. That and the whole “I sunk money into the game by buying collectors to help support the game.”If nothing else, even if you feel it is ‘not my right’ to tell Anet how to do your job, fine. I feel it is. :P Same way I tell my president how I want them to run the country I live in. Sure, I can’t make the decision, but I can organize a community to support and develop improvements.
This is my job, and I take pride in it. If you like to just sit there and eat what you are fed, fine. I will be cooking gourmet meals.
Anet is very good at listening to it’s community, (although, I am seeing that doing this too much can be bad) because in large, I believe that humanity as a whole, is growing more simplistic and ignorant. But that is just my opinion. (;
I organized this thread, spent my time and mind-power to put together well thought out and researched information.
Also, there is a larger unhappy community than you seem to acknowledge, which is why I created this thread in the first place. Most people do not express their thoughts because they feel that nothing will come of it. That is where I come in, researching and displaying information that they can you, for or against my own personal views. That is what the forums are for. Games do evolve over time, and hopefully I can help to promote that evolution to be what I and others view as other.
If you disagree with my points, and would like to research and create your own thread detailing why Guild Wars 2 PvP is indeed, in fact, as great as you say, I would be happy to read it. Keep in mind that I am constantly doing research and will most likely counter-debate your points with my own information.
-Sorry, had to go pick up my bike from the shop.
To Nerva: That is fine, you are totally entitled to your opinion as well. I would like you to add constructive feedback though, rather than the generic: “It is great. Don’t listen to these whiners spiel.” And my opinion is based on the fact that I have played Guild Wars, full heartedly since it’s original release. I have earned 50/50 from playing rather than farming, (for the most part) and have PvPed every single day since release. In every form of PvP, in all roles except Dervish and Paragon. In comparison to Guild Wars 1, it is an utter and blatan fact that the skill system in Guild Wars 2 is terrible. It can be calculate by math, skill options, customization factors, weapon choices, pvp formats, etc. I have provided countless examples above, as have others. Please read, or reread the above thread and respond with your researched retort, and not just a simple “I disagree.”
While I do respect you opinion, I cannot look at you with any significance unless you can place something on the table other than your glass of water.
Combo fields? Have you played an ele in Guild Wars wars? Have you seen the recent update? Guild Wars has combo fields. It is just direct, and usually local to your build. These synergies have been present since release. Maybe not as BIG and obvious as it is not, but they were there.
Examples:
-Knock down if hexed: You necro teamate hexes, you kd.
-Blind if burning: Fire ele burns them, you blind them.
-Teleport and deep wound on low health: Augury of Death, call target and place mark, have team spike target, on low health you finish the job with an unexpected physical spike.
-Ward of Weakness: Pop it and have physical allies attack the target, even once to inflict weakness.
-Chilling Winds: Run air magic and place hex, have a water ele now place hexes on the foe for double length hexes.
The other thing you have to remember is that Guild Wars was designed extremely well, and didn’t need little ‘heart-parties.’ You build could be changed and developed for so many purposes it isn’t even funny. You could create endless combos, chains, etc. Guild Wars was a truly customizable game.
I can clearly state, as a fact that Guild Wars had a far greater level of customization for your build. That is obvious, just from looking at the sheer number of skills, not even factoring in team synergies, or stats.
I hate to be a jerk, but please do the research before you comment. I have not brought up combo fields because they are insignificant in terms of general functionality and livability of the game, they are just a cool little bonus to make the game slightly more fun.
Guild Wars 2 isn’t a bad game by any means. They put a lot of effort into the world, especially level design. But they severely lacked in many other systems. Again, please read up, as I listed things that they specifically neglected/ignored.
(edited by LanceHavenbay.2067)
Seis, please check out this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Improved-Combat-Skill-system
The thread contains a LOT of information, but overall the point is: There are very few skills in Guild Wars 2, no customization, no player uniqueness, builds are predetermined, traits have little value.
Make sure to post a respond and spread the thread around, whether you agree or disagree.
i regreat buying a game when the original was actaully alot better.
in PvP
Posted by: LanceHavenbay.2067
Wack, check out this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Improved-Combat-Skill-system
Yes, everyone runs veryyyyy similar builds, because our skill list sucks.
My character name is very complex. xD
It is from a book that I was writing, and from my own personal beliefs. There is much more to it, but that is the basic of it.
All guys, I have names reserved but I only ever play one character. My human. As someone else said, I design my character like myself.
To Skolops, I agree. Don’t get me wrong. I do enjoy the game, but it is getting old reallllyyyyyyyyy fast. There is not nearly enough diversity, especially in end-game and PvP. There is no creativity, there is no sense of “this is my build.” I have specifically made several unique builds in Guild Wars, never used by anyone but me. See my image. Guild Wars 2 does truly involve not much more that kiting, and spaming skills. I mean, yes, you do have to move… I’m not saying you are just standing and pressing 1… even if at times that is what it is… The idea for the system is great, the execution of the system is poor, if not disgustingly lacking. I could farm faction on Guild Wars 1 and not get bored, because I could always make a new build. Even on VERY structured play-styles like SpeedClears, I would constantly make my own variant of the SC build. I made a MTsc ranger with the Elite Scavengers Focus, worked great! I enjoyed it, it was my own. Guild Wars 2? No matter where you are, you have the same skills as 3/4 the rest of the people with your profession. It is stupid.
I have to say that I too miss the GW1 style elites. In other games that I’ve played in the past, there’re always those few skills that are OP but are balanced by a ridiculously long CD. That’s what they did in GW2 with elites and that’s fine. But I liked the idea behind elites in GW1 better. Not necessarily that they were so strong, but that they were so unique and build-defining. However, it seems Anet is doing that now with traits, something we didn’t have in GW1.
EXACTLY! Perfectly said! Except, the thing is, the trait system is just a glorified attributes. Attributes affected weapon damage, skill damage, defense(sheild), energy, energy gain on death(necro), energy discount(Expertise), how long your knockdown was, your critical rate, the length and effectiveness of conditions, how often you double strike, how much you healed for, etc. The list goes on for a long time. Traits in Guild Wars 2 are about as important as having a bystander monk in PvP give you +5 damage Strength of honor and Judge’s insight. Sure, it helps a tiny bit, but it is really nothing more than slightly increasing the build you already have, which is directly chosen for you based on what weapon you are currently using.
In the link I posted:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Improved-Combat-Skill-system/
I go over these differences and the impact they had, compared to the insignificance of traits and skills now. I keep hearing people say that Guild Wars 1 didn’t have traits… And for the most past, it seems to be coming from people who never played the first game, and do not realize how many fields of play Attributes truly affected. The Backbreaker Sin is a perfect example of spreading your attributes to completely change the purpose of the build. Same goes for Crit Scythe Sins. Traits to not do this. Not in any way, not in any form. Not even close. Traits now, are about as important as putting on 1 Superior rune. Sure, it increases you effectiveness… Does it define you? Eff no. Can you function without it? By all means, YES.
For those of you who have no played Guild Wars 1: Play it. Read my thread, get better knowledge about the previous skill system and please review the things you post before you post them.
I know for rangers specifically, you really only have 3 Elites in PvP. And they take FOREVER to recharge. Where is my Poison Arrow? Cripshot? Burning Arrow? Poison arrow was what, a 2 second recharge? (Sorry, don’t have a chance to look atm) It wasn’t Op, but it was affected based on you build. Guild Wars 2 does not have this. It is bland, it is stale.