Guild Wars 2

stof.9341:

Lanthrudar.1437:

I don’t want to ‘break’ the Thief class, but bring them more in line with the capability’s of other classes. They seem to have more than their share (compared to some who have practically zero) of disengage abilities, ro we want to make sure they are balanced in the scope of the game. The two examples above are the most unbalanced int he class I think.

It maybe has to do with the fact thieves got the worse HP pool in the game, only matched by elementalists and guardians which both have a much easier access to toughness type buffs, protection and spamable heals making them the two most common bunker classes.

Thief is the squishiest class in the game by far.

That’s what Toughness/Vit armor is for. They use the stealth to get into close range and then pound people down quick. You think the thief is squishy? Try Ranger once someone can sneak close. The Ranger has exactly two stun breaks and the fastest recharge is 30 seconds on one.

Again, keeping the target but allowing them to be stealthed would let them set-up or run as needed, either that or ANet needs to revamp their entire targetting system, because frankly when it’s mob on mob, there’s no way to know where you will auto-target, and trying to click someone abusing culling and going invisible isn’t “skill” it’s poor class design mechanics.

blakkrskyrr.7413:

leaving the target on the thief? really? that completely defeats the purpose of the stealth.

Really? And here I thought the idea of stealth was to break combat for them and give them the option to set up the next attack or run away.

Can any other class cause an attacker to lose them as a target with a class mechanic? If not, then why do we allow if for thief? Doing what I suggested above would still aloow both items mentioned:

A. set up next ‘sneak’ attack
B. run away if needed with a good head start too

Heck, you could even add a third:

C. Cause the use of stealth to “break” them out of combat

But if you added option C you’d have to basically ensure they only had 1 stealth ability in the entire class and it be on a 30+ second timer. Otherwise you’d have the weapon swapping, ‘teleporting’ thieves that are in WvW now and it would be even more broken because they’d get auto-health regen, etc.

Shardain.6947:

1. As already stated, all loot goes right into your inventory

2. Have siege display who placed it OR have an option to report the person that placed said siege when you select it. Because someone building useless rams in walls or the edges of the map so your server can’t place any useful siege shouldn’t be a thing that happens.

3. At least be able to deconstruct rams when they are not in use or after your server has captured the tower/keep they were placed at. Would drop a portion of the supply used depending on the health of the siege upon deconstruction. Can’t be abused to deconstruct useful siege, or siege that is being manned at that moment. Removes siege that has already outlived its purpose and makes more space for siege to be placed elsewhere.

Although 3 could just replace 2 really.

Number 3 above, 100%..

Allow us to deconstruct any Ram’s inside a position and the supply to go back into the base, even if that provides above capacity for the supply in the area. Cap this at 5%-10% (depending on size, smaller are’a have higher cap) above max to prevent abuse of stockpiling extra supply.

We shouldn’t be penalized because one ‘spy’ from another server drains supply form a defended position because we have zero way to kick the person doing this out of the battleground or attacking them. So it’s not even realistic to IRL when you could at least try to stop someone sabotaging something like that.

1. People “sticking around” after they are dead.

A. Add “Auto-re-spawn” feature where someone will be kicked to the closest friendly re-spawn point within 10 seconds of dying unless being actively rezzed.

B. If not this then allow opponent players to force this action. i.e. “finish them!” would then transition to “kick them to the curb!” or whatever was appropriate to allow players to get this done.

2. Thieves stealth healing suicide mezzer’s, part of #1 above.

A. Remove all stealth revives.

B. When a player is in a downed state/dead they are 100% visible on the map. No downed state should prevent this.

C. ‘Fix’ mez (or is it ele?) downed state so they can *never go through a portal or door in gas form, that’s 100% broken because they can jump into the middle of an attacking group, AOE, then even if downed, can still escape right back inside.

3. Remove Jump Puzzle from the WvW map, or at the minimum, Remove ALL commendations from the chest!

A. Have other ways to obtain siege with a cap to prevent abuse, i.e. the server has a chest that spawns siege for every X places they control but can only spawn X pieces of siege per day and no player may loot more than 1 item from the chest, etc.

B. If the goal is to have a PvP type area with a JP then move it to it’s own area, with seperate vendors to provide attack/defend pieces of equipment with building materials auto-restocking internally.

• Extra credit: Either raise the base drop rate for commendations, or lower the % damage done to player that allows you to qualify for it. Right now, unless you’re heavy DPS you may not get a lot of these, and there is much more to do than simply attack out there.

eindigen.1275:

—

Let’s talk about the state of Thieves at the moment as well. If asked, many players would say that Thieves dominate the PvP environment as a whole. Their damage output and ability to reset a fight whenever they choose gives them extreme versatility. While this could probably use some toning down, especially to the amount of stealths we see during combat (which can turn into stealth-spam rather than a finesse to managing skills), I would think it’s safe to say Thieves are in a pretty good spot. Overall, they have a niche playstyle, particularly for those who like stealth-heavy combat and the ability to pick and choose which fights they want to start, and which fights they want to finish. Needless to say, it’s an acquired taste, and it feels pretty different compared to many stealth-heavy classes from other MMORPGs, but the Thief in this game has a unique style to it that fits with the style of combat the game is aiming for.

—

How about this to “fix” the thief. What’s the problem with the thief in combat? The fundamental issue? Not that you can’t hit them, but that you can’t see them and you automatically disengage (i.e. ‘untarget’) them.

So simple change.. When a thief goes into stealth they do not become de-targeted. Stealth in this case acts more like ‘protection’ that other classes get, for X seconds, and it represents how tough they are to see, but really, unless they use something like a “smoke bomb” which should blind them as well, you really wouldn’t have someone disappear right in front of you.

So now we’re balanced. the Thief would have something more akin to an ‘evade’ ability, that would immediately stop all attacks against them, but other players would be able to engage them again as soon as this wore off. I think that most of the people I know that complain about stealth would find this agreeable.

Now something I think is worse than stealth is combo activating that “jump 300 feet” ability they have and they can run at full speed. Really? Who thought that was balanced. They can literally jump out of range of a rifle and longbow in less than a second and then repeat this to get even more distance ahead in less than 5 seconds (seemingly, I didn’t clock it).

So how do you fix that? Hmm, put the ability on a 30-45 second timer to represent it’s power as an opener, but don’t allow it to be abused in PvP or WvW.

Other alternatives include:
- Let it be spammed but shorten the distance to maybe 450 or at most 600, enough to get out of melee but give ranged attackers a chance to continue the assault.
- Immediately lower the run speed to non-modifiable (no buffs, food, etc would affect) base combat speed for 10-15 seconds after the leap. This would represent the leg stain it takes to leap 30’+ through the air at once. (* the same could be done with the warrior or any other class that has a ‘leap’ ability*)

I don’t want to ‘break’ the Thief class, but bring them more in line with the capability’s of other classes. They seem to have more than their share (compared to some who have practically zero) of disengage abilities, ro we want to make sure they are balanced in the scope of the game. The two examples above are the most unbalanced int he class I think.

Not meaning ti hijack the thread, the post I quoted illustrated fairly well how unbalanced perma-stealth would be for a thief otherwise and no disagreement from me for that.

I’d say to keep the puzzle PvP but take it out of the WvW section.. Too many people want to do the JP when there is a queue to get into EB and then they want siege placed inside to defend against other players. You get siege from the puzzle, you should be able to place it yourself, of course then you burn supply that people need to repair and upgrade towers, keeps and supply depots..

If they want to keep it in the various battlegrounds then have something strategic in it, remove the commendations so you only get serious players out there, or make it a seperate zone not counting against attendance in the BG itself.

GekoHayate.2451:

TC is trebbing SM at the moment. But to stay in line with the terms of our super secret anti-SOR alliance, it is a friendly treb that tickles instead of doing damage, and it fires hugs and rainbows instead of boulders.

Later we are having a toga-party in the Red keep. SOR can’t come, its super secret alliance members only.

But don’t tell anyone!

Wait, they made a treb size ‘Brony’ weapon like the legendary shortbow? Do you have to wear humiliation pink and use a focus that looks like a star-tipped wand when you fire the treb too?

covenn.7165:

Pesonally I like that TC is playing for second instead of first. It means we constantly have our back against the wall fighting both of you primarily. 600 kills before I lost my sigil stack this evening. Thanks.

Are you a thief or mes? Currently seeing a lot of thieves and culling combined = not much fun.

pot.6805:

tkalamba.2541:

Veltoss.9135:

I really hope TC/SoR focus more on each other and fight for second this time around rather than putting so much focus on BG. You guys won’t win that way. :<

Technically wont win focusing on each other anyways. The idea of focusing on the leader is to deprive them of getting the potential points they need. If we ignored you and went after each other, it more or less means you can do what you want. It makes no sense to focus on each other.

Doesn’t make sense for SoR because you are already in 2nd and want to keep it that way. BUT it does make sense for TC if they actually want to progress and move into 2nd place. Afterall, you have to be 2nd before you can become 1st. TC ignoring SoR only helps SoR hold 2nd place while it guarantees that TC will stay in third.

Well no.. If SOR and TC both only attacked BG, BG likely wouldn’t hold first. Your faulty logic may fool those with low IQ’s but some of us do have a brain.

How do you drag someone out of first so someone else can step in? Overwhelm them. All SOR attacking TC does is guarentee BG will win, again. Something apparently SOR doesn’t understand the concept of either…

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Ian Smith.8690:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

I would like to mute all sounds from that bell so I don’t have to hear others play it.

I don’t care if you paid gold or real money for it, I don’t want to hear you play it.

I wish to know where you complainers of said bell are going that you are subject to such vicious spamming. I have yet to experience this. Once in a while I find some playing with it but nothing so far where they just maliciously play it to annoy others.

SoS border land. A player was spamming the bell the whole time. Didn’t swing a weapon, just stayed on the commander and spammed the bell. Commander is my guild leader. Player spamming was not in my guild.

Not fun when you are defending a tower, or a patch of dirt for that matter, when someone else is spamming the same note and not doing anything else but spam that same note.

Hrm, maybe the person with the bell was just letting everyone else know for whom the bell tolls? Bell trolls? Was it a cowbell sound by chance? Cause, you know, we can always use more cowbell…

covenn.7165:

Lanthrudar.1437:

Dao.8156:

BG still holding strong for as late as it is.

Not sure what SoR is doing. Playing for second place perhaps? Dunno, the strategy does not make much sense to me. It seems SoR has a chance at first if they push BG down during their off hours.

Looks like SoR is content in trying to play for second and keep TC down. And this when BG has almost double the score of TC and SoR already have…

A hint for all the SoR folks.. Why exactly are you continually not hitting on BG when they are so far ahead? You’re making it easy on them by antagonizing your potential partners and letting BG bend us both over.

This isn’t what is happening. Unfortunately your perspective gets skewed when the only person responding to your actions in game is SoR. I guarantee you SoR spends as much time fighting BG as they do TC.

Point being, why? Take the effort you’re expending against TC and use it against BG and what happens? BG goes down. Sor, by fighting against TC when we’re both down almost 1/2 in points against BG, guarantee’s that BG will win again.

So yes, in essence, SoR is fighting for second place because the only way they stand a chance to close the gap on BG and actually win, is to not fight the only other group that is also fighting BG.

I guess if SoR is happy with always being the brides-maid and never the bride they can keep right on doing what they are now.

Dao.8156:

BG still holding strong for as late as it is.

Not sure what SoR is doing. Playing for second place perhaps? Dunno, the strategy does not make much sense to me. It seems SoR has a chance at first if they push BG down during their off hours.

Looks like SoR is content in trying to play for second and keep TC down. And this when BG has almost double the score of TC and SoR already have…

A hint for all the SoR folks.. Why exactly are you continually not hitting on BG when they are so far ahead? You’re making it easy on them by antagonizing your potential partners and letting BG bend us both over.

Smoke.8910:

And 16 hours in we already have a locked thread in the matchup. I’ll take it as a sign of a tough fought close match.

Actually that’s forum trolls more than anything, but the match was great until 4 AM EST, which is when I finally went to bed!

CRrabbit.1284:

Tried new build today in wvw for a few hours, 87 kills, 1 death(and it’s due to d/c).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBlYDbkoKxOyyyi1OQ0UwJJ9e0qY1eniR5/Te1jWB;TsAgzCmo6x0joHbPuek9saYsx+DA
The healing power is FTW, my ranger kept repairing the gate (with ROA and sometime healing spring) by ignoring all meteor showers casted from outside, my HP never drop less than 75%. My pet seldom died, I just stand 3000 range away buff myself(so the pet will get it too) and watch my pet finish target 1 by 1. It’s little bit boring but I have to say my ranger has better survivalbility than my bunker guardian in wvw…

Link is bad, try again? I assume you were inside with pet outside? Otherwise no way to get 3000 range.

Longbow and shortbow still need the same attack speed, that of the current shortbow auto-attack (#1). Longbow has it’s place with longer range and a bigger AOE (which can easily be dodged in PvP or WvW), but shortbow does conditions like crazy.

So have them both attack the same speed, and for those concerned with #2 for longbow leave it the current speed.

Casia.4281:

Bouncing EG1.
And buff fumigate. EG3 is actually awful.

Make it happen!

Have #1 be an AOE like #1 is for pistols. It doesn’t have to be huge, but if it AOE to hit close mobs, especially when used to auto attack after launching #2 (exilir F) they’d all be slow and it would provide extra “oomph” to help balance it’s close range ability.

EG #3 is good actually, but the range needs to be 750 or 900. The EG is a ranged support, with #4 an “oh kitten” option when the enemy gets through the CC/support options it offers. As such, make #1 an AOE (or fast bounce like the axe for rangers, not the slowass #2 “miss most of the time” for EG now) and boost range to 750-900 for #3 and the EG would be nice all around I think.

Penguin.5197:

After reading the engineers class balance philosophies and raging and being frutrated, then calming down a bit, I decided to write down points on why getting damaged reduced should not be another cost to pay for versatility, since we pay enough for that already. I hope when arenanet developers read this they take it seriously.

Before that here is their philosophy on engineers one more time for people that may have missed it: “The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.”

And here is what we pay for it already:

1. Our tool kits are already paid by not being able to weaponswap: What comes natural to other classes we cannot really do, but its made up by a semi variety of kits. Other classes like a warrior are easily versatile on the battle field, where they can easily switch between short and long range weapons without having a damage penalty on their weapons. So use having versatile kits doesn’t seem too special.

2. Every kit cost a utility slot to use: Unlike ele’s attunements, which are innate and free, we have to choose carefully about what kit to use because for every kit we use, that is one less utility available.

3. Much of our versatility is too unreliable: I assume our versatility comes from being able to do what other classes can do such as copying a warriors stability or a thieves’ stealth, but when its all rolled up into one skill, you got a 50/50 chance of screwing yourself up. Same for many other effects in our elixir group. I get the reasoning that they wanted to make some sort of gamble build, but in reality its too unstable, could never see it be used in professional games. Imagine if half the time a thief wanted to get into stealth they just made themselves literally a bigger target to hit and thats what engineers have to go through continuously. Or how about throwing down an elixir for stability in hopes you wont get knocked down from fractals harpies, only to get invisibility? At least the harpies wont get to see your character fail miserably.

4. Being able to cast boons on allies is already hindered by radius size Most of our boon share comes from thrown elixirs, and when their radius size is as big as Jump Shot, our boon support capability suffers. Seriously try landing a projectile that takes time to get there on a group of jumping , running and dodging allies. Other classes with shouts that you don’t even have to target and bigger area of effect fields do it way better. I say that because of this part in their philosophy “use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight.”

So to the developers: In conclusion please look over the engies again. We already pay enough as it is we don’t need changes with a mindset set on damage reduction penalties too

The part of that stance they mentioned about intentions for the engineer was that they said the ELE was the "king of versatility " and yet the ELE has AOE’s, long range, short range, and more overall damage..

I don’t get why it’s ok to limit weapon damage for ENG when another class has even more versatility compared to us and we have all these limitations, and they want to add more..

If they want to limit ENG to kits then have the kits inherit more than the sigils, or have all sigils on separate timers so two can be active at once without having to try to swap (which we can’t do unless kit swap counts as a ‘swap’). Have the kit damage boost based on rarity of the main weapons, or pull the stat’s of the weapons equipped, or scale the damage of things like the EG scale more. Why doesn’t EG damage scale with points into Alchemy? I mean WITHOUT picking the trait to boost damage 15%? 15% is great for Flamethrower but EG damage is pretty low, especially if you consider Elixir F (#2 attack for EG) lobs through the air, allowing it to be easily dodged, instead of being shot more like a beanbag from a riot gun. If it shot as fast as the tranq dart and couldn’t be dodged it would be much more useful.

One reason so many people used grenades was you essentially had two-three attacks each time they hit. If the other kits had comparable damage to grenade, and not damage that took 5-10 seconds to effect (all the conditions) or were static damage, i.e. bombs/mines, you’d see people using them more I think.

Awesomesauce.9528:

…Sometimes people just say, “screw it,” and attack…. FA’s just doing what it naturally does….the fallout of the parade is friggin’ hilarious though, lol.

Yep, condensed that to the relevant points. And you’re exactly right! It is hilarious, the results, they are funnay!

phaneo.4597:

Ok, let’s not again derail this thread, and this is a request to all the sides.

To change everyone’s mood:

appledainty.8127:

Hello! I just wanted to make some small requests of my fellow players.

If you are from CD you probably think of me as the mad red pirate that toils endlessly alongside a dolyak in an endless quest to upgrade All The Things.

If you are from FA or TC you probably think of me as that squishy blue ranger toiling endlessly alongside a dolyak in a hopeless quest to upgrade All The Things you are just going to take anyway.

My fellow CD players, I would ask that if you should see me walking alone beside a slowly plodding dolyak, that you please toot your horn or otherwise put a speed burst on as you pass to assist my efforts. It is for the good of the server!

And ye nemesis of TC and FA, I ask that if you should see me toiling all alone with a dolyak, that you wave at me before you stake me to the ground.

Love,
Team Dolyak & Fluffyhooves

Jayne.9251:

Personally I think we should all make a big 3-server marching parade with Appledainty at the end of this week and walk with her and her Dolyak.

Let’s try to make this happen!

This was a great idea and fun.. For about 5 minutes, and then some FA ‘players’ and I use the term loosely, started attacking everyone.

I propose this.. CD and TC combine to strip FA of every tower, camp and fort for the next 24 hours until the reset. Maybe this will show FA the consequences of poor sportsmanship.

To any FA players who were not involved with the poor showing of your fellow server mates; I apologize for being caught in the middle, but unfortunately these FA members who decided to attack everyone simply reinforced the poor opinion your server already has.

Let’s take down FA in a blaze of glory.. Split their items right down the middle, half blue and half green, what do you say CD?

:)