Guild Wars 2

You know, i am ok with HB. If anyone has played a warrior, it is actually a pretty balanced skill. It hits very hard, but roots the warrior in place, and if you want to combo it with haste you will take 50% more dmg.

Now Heartseeker is just wrong. Finisher, only 3 initiative, LEAP TO TARGET, and bonus dmg the lower your target’s health gets. wrong wrong wrong.

Thank you for the video showing us how much more dmg and utility the thief has compared to our class!

yes, right now Mesmer and Thief are the two classes inherently better than the others. Even their downed state abilities are better >.<

People realize that thief is a HIGH dps class, and we know their dps is > pretty much everyone else right now, even without heartseeker.

What we hate is that heartseeker creates a situation in which you can not KITE the thief, and in which you die literally instantly when under 50% health. (insert screenshot of 2 heartseekers hitting for over 9k dmg total).

-Balance Changes: Thief/Mesmer – Please ^^

Actually, i would disagree. Take HB for example. This ability will RIP Ele/Caster/Ranger if the warrior lands it. BUT, the fact that they are self rooted allows the caster/ranger a chance to counter the attack.

On the other hand, look at Thief heartseeker. This ability RIPS RDPS, while at the same time eliminating the RDPS’s ability to kite/counter the thief. That is why it is a broken ability and needs to be looked it. So i would say, keep HB and self rooting abilities they way they are, they create a balance between high hp/defense melee chars and RDPS.

Just wanted to throw this out there: just because a thief loses to someone, or a certain class can counter them, does not mean that their abilities are not out of whack and need to be adjusted.

For example, the fact a thief can 2 shot anyone almost instantly when they are at 50% health is OUT OF WHACK. Even if they did 0 damage until a target was 50%, that is still far out of balance with the other classes in the game.

Don’t worry bud, thief nerf will be in soon enough.

What is SPAMMABLE on any of those aformentioned classes that will hit for 4.5k a hit and will LEAP YOU to target?

hit the nail on the head Jnaathra.

I tried out thief as well, same story. except i spent a little more time learning the class and holy crap. awesome ranged burst (unload), spammable interrupts, heartseeker flying me to target and dropping insane dps, haste + poison+ thieves guild = O.O.O.O.O.O!!!!
And of course when things go wrong, stealth, stealth, teleport, full initiative again and repeat the wtfpwn.

Let’s see that guy with 50% health who has been fighting an epic battle with another class for the past 30 seconds evade my steal + heartseekers. gimme a break. the class is broken. Even my guildie who mains a thief is trying out other classes because he is convinced they will be nerfed into the ground.

good post OP. i think most of us can agree with the majority if not all of that.

good points, would love to see an update for balance on thief/mesmer.

I think it should be pointed out for those theifs defending their class: Yes, you may burn all of your initiative on your first 5 heartseekers, but your other attacks still hit JUST AS HARD OR HARDER than most other classes auto attacks when combined with haste/poisons/thieves guild. took a little over 9k dmg from 2 heartseekers last night. There just is NO excuse that a class can put out that much dmg, that fast, for that little of setup/skill or penalty. You cant even KITE thief.

That being said, the downed state in water is horrible and SOOOOOOOOOOOOO slow to kill people going “invulnerable” repeatedly at waterline.

I like the sharks, and i love the water combat on that map. go figure =)

The simple answer is yes. Mesmer and Thief currently are outperforming other classes without any large offset or penalty in another area.

You can try to hold onto your FoTM OP class/skills all you want. The problem isn’t that these skills are killing us even when we dodge. The problem is these skills are GROSSLY better than any other class. 2 hits of heartseeker for 9k dmg. There is NOTHING i have that can do 9k dmg in two hits, much less that is spammable, and will LEAP me to my target.

i rolled a mesmer, lvld to two, went to the dummies, looked at each attack, and then went and SPvP’d. The class is inherently stronger than many other classes for very little skill.

so what do i do when the thief lands 2 heartseekers for 9k dmg and i am dead because i was half health? do i not worry about those 2 first heartseekers?

Oh wait, that is right, NO OTHER CLASS IS PUTTING OUT THAT MUCH DMG, THAT FAST FOR THAT LITTLE OF INVESTMENT.

/thread

Thief and Mesmer are currently too powerful when compared the other classes.

does heartseeker kill someone 100% of the time? no. Can 2 of the 5+ heartseekers be countered with evade if you happen to be at full endurance? yes. The problem is the other 3 heartseekers not to mention the X amount that come as initiative ticks(or ramps depending on spec) back up. Couple this with the fact that thieves guild, auto attack, poisons, HASTE, and other abilities are still playing a huge factor and you have a very lopsided DPS class.

Interesting thought about thief and dmg. I am in the same boat, let them have their high dmg builds, but either 1. Take away their mobility/utility with those builds, or 2. Make the time between high dmg bursts on par with everyone else (they wait on initiative, we wait on 2 min CDs).

Well, you are the minority, as the majority WOULD complain about empty, lifeless environments if it was the opposite. Look at MMOs ranging from DAoC to WAR, to Aion/Rift for examples of QQ about not enough happening.

If a thief is only spamming heartseeker, you dont have to worry. But a thief using heartseeker amongst his other abilities, especially when he got an immobilize off… (thieves guild, haste, poisons, etc), you dont have many options as a ranged player. There is simply no way to kite a thief, the only option you have is a long duration root/immobilize such as entangle on ranger. You can not use snare or knockback, as they have 4-5 heartseekers worth of initiative to use, and even then their initiative regens during the fight. Combine that with the fact their ranged abilities will hit just as hard as anything else (and probably harder *cough unload *cough ).

If you don’t land this though, a good thief will certainly kill you, and if you manage to somehow turn things around, he will simply stealth out and hit you again with full health.

axe/warhorn + shortbow.

Warhorn for shout (speed/dmg) axe for initial bleed/snare.
Shortbow has the same range (without traits) as longbow, and deals higher dps than longbow on a single target. Combined with Quickening Zephyr you can 100-0 a player from behind within the 4 seconds of zephyr.
The utility on shortbow is also much better than longbow, as you have a full 1,200 range snare, as well as an evade shot that will give you speed when it hits. There is also an interrupt shot that will also stun if behind target.

If you are just looking to plink targets and not really kill anyone, or to just zerg around, then longbow is actually quite nice. You get to see numbers popping up over a group when you AE them.

hope that helps

Wait a minute i thought thief was only dps, no survivability…

Oh wait…

Opening WvW overflow maps would go a LONG way. Do not include them towards the point calculations, just LET US PVP and enjoy siege/xp/etc.

Thief is currently out of balance when compared to other classes.

Guardians can spec very defensively, but that is their niche. they give up a lot to be that spec, as opposed to thieves who still retain a lot of utility and mobility while putting out unmatched dps without much setup or skill required.

Sadly, the potential of a thief is VERY high, and so an average player will be very strong/borderline OP on thief, while a skilled player simply out performs any other class counterpart.

The thief damage is > everyone else. Certain classes get some hard hitters like HB, but that isnt at all comparable to haste + hs spam on a 50% or below target. or popping thieves guild + haste + poisons + attacks.

The problem isnt that thieves are good at dps, it is that no other class compares. I wouldn’t even have a problem with a thief if they were JUST about dps. but they are not. They are VERY mobile, the can NOT be kited (HS alone closes gaps, not to mention teleports, steal, and the fact they can swap to a 900 range weapon that hits HARD). They also can simply stealth out of fights, and come back fighting strong. Their utility + dmg burst and SUSTAINED DPS is just so high compared to everyone else.

Just because thief can be countered, doesn’t mean that their skills aren’t inherently better/have a higher overall damage output without much required by means of setup or skillful play.

great first post, 100% agree.

If we were to use an anology to math, playing an elementalist is like having to do Calculus, while playing a thief for the same results is like counting numbers. The amount of difficulty and skill that is invovled is so much higher on the elementalist, just to get the same results. I have played Ranged DPS Caster since DAoC (War/Aion/Rift) and tried to make Ele work, but they simply pale in comparison to the potential of the other classes when putting a skilled player behind the wheel.

It was really bad before, i have noticed an improvement.

Warrior / Thief / Mesmer put out some very high burst DMG, however i would submit that only Thief and Mesmer have inherently more potential than most other classes. Warrior is very strong by comparison, but thief and mesmer are simply above the rest.

queue times can be crazy. It would be great if they opened up WvW overflows of the borderlands. Take away all contribution but leave in xp rewards. bingo.

In the end all we want to do is PvP/have fun.

Yes we care about contribution/competing against other servers, but i’d rather be able to actually PvP/have fun over sitting in a queue.

I think warrior is one of the few really balanced classes right now. They can spec for high dps, or high survivability.That high dps comes at the cost of mobility and is hard to land (HB, etc). Pretty much Warrior is the most balanced class at the moment imo.

Mesmer and Thief are the two classes that currently have a higher potential than the other classes. Enjoy!

Heartseeker + haste + %50 or below dmg bonuses = out of balance with other classes. If you took away all initiative abilities, the thief would actually play very similar to most other classes as far as consistent dmg output. However, combine their ability to do unparallelled burst , as WELL as their ability to stealth, along with their mobility, and the class needs to be brought into line with the other classes.