Guild Wars 2

aydenunited.5729:

I would have preferred you left like you promised.

No worries, uninstalled tonight. Would love to reinstall at the first sign of a balance patch. Until then, enjoy!

Mesmer, thief, guardian… there are no other classes.

Nice video. Thanks for the share.

After SPvPing to r20 exclusively playing Ranger/Elementalist/Warrior, i felt very good against every class. I felt that Guardian/Mesmer/Thief were exceptionally strong when good players were on them, but the majority of them were pretty doable.

Then i decided to roll a thief. OH MY GOODNESS. For anyone who wants to be a high dps /high survivability/mobility class… RE ROLL NOW!

This class is amazing. When i first started, i felt kind of weak compared to my Ranger, as i was learning the class. I could 50%-0% someone like nothing with Heartseeker, and felt somewhat solid with my abilities to teleport/stealth. But over the past while of learning this class something happened. I began to feel INCREDIBLY POWERFUL. (except for some guardians/mesmers… dang you two!!!)

The sad part is i don’t think i will be playing my Ranger/Warrior anytime soon. I like my Ele for group play, and i synergize so well with our guild Guardian when it comes to support. But as far as anything i was doing on Ranger/Warrior, i am just SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL on thief. I guess i will have to wait and see what the first balance patches do, who knows maybe Ranger/Warrior will get some sweet love. I don’t know though, even with a nerf or buff, i still feel like i have so much more on my Thief right now as far as options in fights.

Anyways, anyone who is looking for a change, or just wants a kick-kitten class, try out the thief, they are good times

Judges.4527:

Props to the OP for speaking the truth. We have a list of Necromancer bugs stickied on the necro forum. It’s reached over 100 bugs at the moment.

The balancing in GW2 is SO sad. I really hope necros don’t get the Paragon treatment from GW1….

Thanks. Honestly, i just have no desire to play GW2 right now. Either i feel slighted because of the class imbalance with THE HOLY TRINITY, or i feel pushed to roll one of these classes because they are inherently better. Either way i may just give up the game until something is worked out.

THE HOLY TRINITY!

UptheIronz.6732:

i’ve been playing the game since the last 2 beta’s i can tell u this

thief while its true they deal a lot of damage , they die just as fast , so no problem with the class in a balance point of view , that’s how they are designed

mesmers on the other hand i can’t say it’s working as intended i play the class by the way done hundred of tournament and i rarely die , although u don’t have to to nerf decoy to fix it , an easy fix is to reduce mesmer base health point 24,5k is a lot reduce it by 5k and the problem is solved , mesmers are balanced again

Except thief doesnt die fast… maybe if they just stood there they die as fast as anyone else.. but right now, they have stealth, teleports, blinds, etc that make them far more durable than most classes.

Again, it isn’t about not being able to counter/kill thief/mesmer/guardian. The problem is they do EVERY ROLE BETTER. There is no class you can play outside these three that you wouldn’t inherently be BETTER OFF by playing a thief/mesmer or guardian.

We don’t need an explanation of how to fight a thief. We are just fine at that. What i want an explanation of us is WHY do thieves have HIGHER DAMAGE OUTPUT that not only hits harder HIT FOR HIT, but is also SPAMMABLE, LEAPS TO TARGET, and gives BONUS DAMAGE when the target’s health gets lower.

As Yukishiro already said, don’t look past Thief/Mesmer/Guardian for any role. These 3 are currently the best at anything you are looking to do, hands down. Picking something else is just kittening yourself/team. For point defense, Mesmer/Guardian both will do the trick.

It isnt about counter play. For those of us who play purely SPvP/TPvP there is only one conclusion: Thief/Mesmer/Guardian are simply stronger than the rest of the classes. Plain and simple. Can other classes stomp them? sure. But that doesn’t take away from the FACT that they outperform the other classes. Thief DPS > any other class , Guardian defensive capabilities > any other class and Mesmer Utility > any other class.

It isnt a question of “this class kills me, nerf them” it is a question of “if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential”

lol love it. The Trinity is so fitting=P

It isn’t about these classes being OP and needing to find counters, the problem is that these 3 classes OUTPERFORM any other class in ANY role. You want to be DPS? Play thief, nothing will match your DPS and ease of dealing DPS. You want to be TANKY/DEFENSIVE? Guardian is the best option. You want the best all around DPS/Utility/Defense? Play mesmer. Confusion/Pets/Stealth/Teleports/Group Haste/1200 range attacks…

People aren’t mad they lost to these classes, or that we can’t beat them. That isn’t the case, we win some we lose some. It is however COMPLETELY OBVIOUS and BLATANT that they are OUTPERFORMING any and ALL of their counterparts.

Yea, i can’t imagine this isn’t on their plate… i would love a “stomp” style ability so you dont have go through killing someone 2x everytime in water.

Not only is the dmg on Heartseeker unparalleled hit for hit (2 hit = 9k dmg? umm ok!) it also attacks VERY fast, LEAPS to target, and is SPAMMABLE up to 5 times without pause, and then one needs only wait LESS THAN THE NORMAL CD time on a normal class to start using it again.

yangshindo.1527:

confusion is really strong right now.
But the Mesmer nerf is coming.. I’m sure.

Let us hope.

9k dmg from 2 illusinary sword attacks…

Ok yea, people still aren’t getting the point of the thread. It is not about being overpowered. It is about Thief/Mesmer/Guardian being the highest potential/most viable classes to play for any role you want to fill. In other words, whatever you are doing with your class, the thief, mesmer or guardian does it BETTER.

As a ranger i do very well against thieves… unless my CDs arent up, in which case no kiting will be able to keep the inevitable from happening ^^

People are still missing the point of this post.

The point is NOT that you can’t counter a thief as X class.
The POINT is that Thief can do more damage and have higher mobility than any other class. Period. You will not be hitting 10k backstabs, or 9k heartseekers (which in turn leap you towards your target and are spammable). You just wont and cant.

You will NOT be able to take as much damage as a Guardian as any other class (Ele comes close). You will NOT be able to spec your warrior , engi, etc to be able to Tome, Bubble, buff, etc to the same extend that a guardian can.

You will NOT be able to have the same presence as a mesmer through sheer dps, confusion (the actual ability), teleports, stealth, and debuffs. There is no class that can match it. Someone said ‘look at necro, they can get just as many pets’. Thank you for the perfect example, those pets dont do anything near what the Mesmer’s pets do.

The point of this thread isnt that these classes are unbeatable, or that there aren’t counters. The point of this thread is that if you want to play at max potential for a given role, you will need to roll one of these 3 classes currently.

Mr. Big, where does a necro fall into this? Who should play a necro and for what purpose that isnt achieved BETTER by playing one of the top three classes? Who should play a warrior when they can play Guardian? Who should play any dps class when thief will outperform their dps and mobility?

This post isnt about whether a class can be countered, etc. The post is highlighting the fact that these three classes OUT PERFORM any other class in these roles. As such, there is simply no NEED to play any other class at the moment outside of these three.

Shadowgurke.5813:

Mesmer is the best 1v1 class, thats the point of the Mesmer
Way to kill them? Kill them very quickly, but you will most likely lose to a good Mesmer

Except they don’t JUST excel at 1v1. They lose nothing in a group fight, and in fact outperform most any other class in a group fight as well.

[edit]<< People don’t seem to be getting the point of this thread and are going off on “L2P” and “I kill X class easy” tangents. The point of this thread is that if you aren’t playing one of these 3 classes, you are not reaching the same potential you would have by playing one of the three instead. Please actually read the OP before commenting, thanks!>>

Currently these three classes completely outperform any of the other classes by a large margin.

Thief – Damage output and mobility far surpasses any other class.
Guardian – Defensive ability far surpasses any other class.
Mesmer – Utility (Pets/clones/illusions, stealth, teleports, confusion, debuffs) far surpasses any other class.

As it stands, unless you are playing one of these classes, you feel subpar in the role you have chosen above (or even in a hybrid of roles above). Yes you can still accomplish your role, but you would have been better off to pick one of the three classes above. That is simply how it is at the moment in TGM Wars 2.

Any word on when you will be looking at either buffing existing classes up to the same levels, or bringing these three classes back down to where everyone else is?

while this isn’t necessarily true, as you have a lot of noob guardians… i would say yes, good teams that stack up on Guardian power tend to dominate.

So the question is, how do you actually do on a different class other than the most FOTM OP class at the moment?

Thief can put out insane dmg without being glass cannon. Their teleport/stealth abilities alone will give them plenty of longevity in fights.

Honestly, mesmer is the one class that has me considering shelving this game. mediocre mesmers, whatever. Good mesmer = /facepalm

^this. Warhammer had to switch this, i think it will happen here as well. at least i hope so -.-

Keep in mind you can “deposit collectibles” on PvP skins that then can be accessed by ANY character on your account. So that chain may not be usable by your caster, but you can use it on your warrior.

Access the deposited gear through the PvP Lockers.

So far it sounds like there is no counter. Mesmer’s REPEATEDLY and CONSTANTLY apply confusion through their own attacks, as well as through pets that apply this condition. And they don’t just apply confusion and stand around hoping you are going to kill yourself with it. They are still dishing out HUGE numbers (9k pet crits) from their pets as well as potentially very high dmg themselves (quickness, etc).

Confusion is much worse than a bleed, bleeds tick for 50-150 dmg, confusion is hitting myself for much more. Stopping my attacks means that the mesmer’s pets aren’t dying, and that there is no pressure to force him to stop dpsing and to roll/heal/stealth/teleport.

I was hoping there was some secret out there, some trick that someone had found to help me not feel like Mesmer was just a complete BS class, but it appears that is not the case.

This is a poorly thought out idea, as you are only looking at it from your class’s perspective (that does not share this mechanic).

You are thinking the grass is greener. Initiative is currently MUCH MORE POTENT than the CD system, as most classes have very mediocre dmg abilities and 1 strong ability that is on cd. So in theory we can spam 2 strong abilities between two weapons and then switch back to weapon one after weapon swap cd.

Thief on the other hand can spam 4-5 strong attacks (PW/HS/Unload/etc) and within a second of regen can hit it again. This is not taking into account all of the initiative building traits, INCLUDING initiative on weapon swap.

So i would argue that thief is completely favored in the number of times their strong skills can be used , not only in burst/spam fashion, but also over the long run.

Thank you for pointing out how blatantly overpowered the initiative system is.

Mayama.1854:

About confusion, you basicaly say condition mesmer should only do minimal damage. Thats what you say if you apply it to the only class in the game that really uses confusion as a weapon.

Look a condition mesmer, like all mesmers is build around giving the enemy multible bad choices. If you would have played gw1 you would know that. A mesmer is designed around making the enemy a nervous wreck. A well played mesmer gives you only one choice to not take damage and thats running away.
Take a condition mesmer for example, he spawns phantasm that apply tons of bleeds and stacks confusions. That is his strategy to fight you. The problem is that the confusion will hurt you if you attack the phantasms and the phantasms will hurt you if you do nothing. Multible bad choices, the class is designed tokitten you off. It is its job.

Ayestes.1273:

Besides, confusion? Condition removal is easier to come by then confusion, and very few professions can put up confusion. None of them can keep up a meaningful amount of stacks for any decent duration of time.

A condition mesmer can but its like 50% of his damage, asking for a remove of that condition is like asking a warrior to give up his sword.

Wait, so you are saying it is OK to have a class that you’re only PROPER choice when fighting it is to RUN AWAY?

/facepalm

Mesmer is a good 1v1… and 1vX… and good group debuffer and good group buffer (group haste anyone?)… and does good dps… and has good survivability… and group port…

Guardian is a good capper. i think they are strong but fine.

Thief is a good roamer… and insane dps… and insane mobility… and can chain stealth out of bad situations… They are by no means “squishy”. The common defense is “focus them down and they die fast”. Well, that holds true for ANY non-tanky class, and even then…

The reason so many people are playing these classes is because they are inherently better at MULTIPLE aspects of what other classes can do.

Hmm, sheathe weapon, good idea.

And yes, confusion kills me VERY quickly if i attack through it, so that is not an option…

I suppose i will just have to chalk it up to : You can’t beat a well played mesmer?

Mesmers are OP, i just hope we aren’t overly nerfed. just a little nerf will do^^

I would say when you do master an elementalist, they are still just even with a mediocre player on mesmer

Because Thief dmg is > that of most classes and they aren’t any squishier than the rest of the classes either. They have more mobility/utility through stealth/teleports and can initiative dump, then stealth/reload and come back at the CD based classes.

Almost identical to what i run, however i took marksman to 30 for 6 sec of invuln (i felt like protect me was WAAAY too spotty). I also run longbow and open with rapid fire and then switch for the weapon swap boons. (i just swap in horn out of combat for speed).

I think HB is a perfect example of a BALANCED skill. Hits very hard, but as others pointed out, it can be countered by all classes and the warrior is left planted in place, on CD and ready to get ripped.

Thief/Mesmer on the other hand have abilities that have no downside. What is the downside to a Spammable finisher that increases dmg as the target’s HP goes down, and LEAPS the player to his target? What is the downside to using an attack that not only does damage/inflicts a condition, but also spawns an illusion that will do all the rest on their own?

I am just curious as to what people are doing to counter this skill. Currently Mesmers are the main source of this spell, however Engineers are a close second (Ele has it, but it is hardly if ever used).

Personally i am aware of when this spell is put on me however, i have yet to figure out a “proper” counter.

I have the choice to clear the spell with condition removal, however, against a mesmer this is folly as there is sure to be another 1-2 stacks coming.

Which leads me to my current strategy of holding my fire, which causes problems as i have to spam my escape button to try and stop my auto fire, which leaves me doing NO damage to the opposing player, as well as having a menu in the middle of my screen.

I wonder what other people are doing? The Mesmer has enough damage output from himself as well as his illusions that i HAVE to pressure him/kill illusions or i simply will die myself. But trying to fire through Confusion is a surefire way to die a very fast death.

Thoughts?

I really like this map. It is one of my favorites actually. I find the water combat to be a refreshing change of pace, and i like the way the other two control points have highground that are led into from the spawn (rocks by the beach, platform by the docks). I love the shark mechanic because it adds a dynamic to the water fights as well. Seriously, i do not understand at all why people are complaining about this map. Do you want a flat, open, 2 point map or something? o.O?

LOL. i had seriously been thinking this whole time that there was a new “internet kiddie” slang that i just hadn’t caught onto yet /facepalm

entangle is one of the ranger’s only root abilities atm outside of pet skills. It is on a 2 min CD.

When i saw the colored armor in the beta, i thought it was just a beta thing. i was pretty surprised that it made it into live game. please allow us to dye!

I still think it hits too hard at lower percentages, but i’ll take this above nothing.

I think Mesmers are VERY close to be in order with other classes. Their combination of confusion (which comes from multiple sources and can stack) + strong dmg output (1 illusionary attack hitting for 9k)+ multiple stealths (stealth still allows the caster to start casting before they fully become visible) just makes them unbalanced when compared to other classes.

Thief is very close to being a great dmg class with high mobility (teleports/stealth). The problem comes in their ability to spam a finisher that hits for 9k+ when the target’s health is low and that leaps them to target. Anyone who says thief is squishy needs to take into consideration that hp/toughness is not the only form of dmg mitigation. Teleports, Stealth, and blinds are all very effective means of dmg mitigation. Again, i am ok with them having a combination of high dmg and high utility, but giving them dmg bonus on health% and a leap to target… that is just giving them too much in one ability.

So far the hardest single hits i have received are from Heartseeker and Mesmer pet. Both of these have 0 drawbacks to the reward they receive. Compare that to Warrior HB (self root), Elementalist (requires combinations of area targeted skills) and oh wait… guardian, ranger, engi, necro dont have any single abilities that burst that hard…

A lot are jumping on the mesmer/thief bandwagon.

Stealthing for killing blow is part of the strategy/utilization of the thief’s skills. Now as to the class having blatantly unbalanced skills like Heartseeker, that is another question =) Also , thief attacking for 1-3 seconds while still in stealth before their target actually sees them, that is something to be concerned about.