Guild Wars 2

You would want to have the initiative regen faster from my experience.

I know what your experiencing. There have been times where I go for the stomp and a thief will escape but still close enough for me to re-target him while in mid stomp. Although I’ll be at a further distance, the stomp will still go through.

It does seem a little broken in the fact that sometimes my target has escaped but a simple re-targeting of him will cause him to get stomped from a distance.

I had to log on and try this out to see what happens.

I switched to S/D and not P/D for testing. When I attack a mob and go stealth (leaving no conditions on mob) the mob maintained it’s health level (75% health) and instantly attacked me when stealth wore off.

I also kited the mob far from it’s starting point. The instant I went stealth, the mob instantly started to regen (rather slowly) as it ran back to it’s starting point, not attempting to attack me when I came out of stealth. I didn’t re enter combat. The mob reset.

I kited the mob far from it’s starting point again. The instant I went stealth, the mob started to regen and head back to it’s starting point. When I came out of stealth I could still attack him and do damage that would cause the mobs regeneration to stop and damage to take, but he was still heading towards his starting point.

So in conclusion, if you take a mob far enough away from it’s starting point and cease combat, it resets like it should. This is correct in the fact that if you get in a bind, you can and should be able to outrun most mobs until they reset.

On the other hand, it doesn’t seem right that I can take any mob far enough, stealth and cause them to cease attacking me and then just beat them down while they are attempting to reset. The mob would stop regenerating health if attacked while running back to it’s starting point, but would not attack me again until it reached it’s starting point.

If you enjoy the PP build, try out the PP/SD build. It works great in PVP and also PVE. But you could run with PP/SB also.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/P-P-S-D-WvW-Video-Something-Different/

ZLE.8293:

I pity all the “Omg Stealth Stomp” whiners…The time will come, when they will realize that Black Powder is roughly 1000 times better for stomping and reviving…

agreed

vespers.1759:

because thieves are not fun to fight. they are gone every 2 seconds and then they reappear, backstab and then are gone again.

when they are losing they just stealth and you never see them again. no other class requires as little skill as a thief and has the potential for griefing other than maybe mesmers.

Ahhh, that must be it, because you can’t figure out how to fight against a thief so that clearly means thieves are the players lacking any skill…. tell me that’s not a L2P issue…

Causic.3798:

Lofat.2406:

TNoD.8143:

As a thief who has other level 80s, I don’t have a problem with thieves because I always know what they are doing while invis and I look for the auto attack animation change on hit. Thieves are not invincible when invis which is what a lot of people tend to forget.

Conclusion: if you hate thieves, play as one, learn how they think and then you can destroy them.

Spot on! It’s a L2P issue like I’ve said all along.

Disagree, it was definitely a culling issue.
Now thieves are not nearly as menacing.
I used to have to run since they could kill me before I would see them but now I think I can take on (or at least put of a fight with) any thief that isn’t amazing :P

Disagree… It was and still is a L2P issue. You’ve just probably gotten better and stopped running away from them. I haven’t noticed it being any harder or more complicated with or without culling. The only thing I have noticed is that people are still complaining about thieves. If it’s not culling, it’s stealth, if it’s not stealth, it’s backstab or something else.

Just keep damage going. Bleeds, poisons, etc… The minute there isn’t anyone targeted and they aren’t taking any damage, they reset. An easy way to do that is to switch to SB while your in stealth and drop a poison (#4) on them. You will stay in stealth, they will keep taking damage, and they won’t reset.

You won’t find much burst or direct damage from a P/D build. P/D is after all a condition build. I’ve tried to alter it to a burst build but the burst just wasn’t there. For the gear you would get, mixed with the traits you would get, you’d be better off DD/SD/DP/SP or even PP. D/P shines as a condition build thus lacking any real punch besides conditions.

PP is good for dungeons, but it lacks any AOE. With a PP dungeon build you better keep on your blinds and spam unload. It gets boring fast. SD-SB is fun in dungeons and also fun in WvW roaming. I put up a vid of my PP-SD build for WvW. It could be altered to run dungeons when your not doing wvw.

Probably won’t always crit, but I’m sure he was running a GC build with high crit. Glad you got your answers. Most people come on here and qq about the op thief that just stomped them and how it’s totally unfair they can’t just push the win button against thieves. You had an honest question about it.

Playing a thief you’ll come to understand anything and everything we do is either considered OP, newbish, or unfair. Just play to your liking and as long as your having fun with it, who cares. Like Alex said, “People who complain about thieves being noobs are generally noobs themselves.” When they say stuff like that, just toss em a /laugh and proceed to backstab/HS them and enjoy the kills.

You could always just add shadow step to your utilities if that’s your main reason for liking Sword.

You could go S/D or S/P if you want to handle more than one at a time. With the S/D you’d still be able to Cloak and Dagger to stealth for when you need to get out. Infiltrators strike is very good as it will allow you to teleport to a mob but shadow step back if you need to get out.

Here’s a quick build I put together for S/D or S/P to give you an idea.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cF33R;0RwV0-J5VOkd0;9;4JT-J-02-01A;118x

Thieves are viable for dungeons. Make sure to bring a SB for AOE and use your blinds.

You shouldn’t have been harassing his Ram…

in a 1v1 it just comes down to your preference as both builds are capable of 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, etc…

I prefer the 20/0/30/20/0 build. I don’t use Shadow Refuge anymore. It feels like a wasted slot in this build. For utilities I go with:

Hide in Shadows – Obvious heal/stealth

Spider Venom – Goes great with the traits, excellent for added damage in condition build

Blinding Powder – This has a lot of benefits over SR. It’s an instant stealth/blind. Sometimes I’ll hit it along with spider venom and then instantly get a quick shot off to apply bleeds/poison very fast.

Signet of Shadows – Obvious for the 25% speed increase, but what most people fail to use this for is the instant blind. Great for when you need to avoid damage and you cant dodge or stealth.

Shadow Refuge has more benefits if you’re running with others but I usually go solo. I like the instant stealth and free blind that blinding powder offers much more than SR. Anytime I see another thief use SR I switch to bow and drop a poison and then an immediate cluster bomb. They usually fly out of there as soon as the cluster bomb hits. But most classes will go in the circle of SR and start swinging or knocking you out.

Best advice I can give you is to watch videos, see what P/D thief styles you like best and start out by copying what they are doing and how they are playing. After you get it down, then start experimenting with your own touches to the build and style. Most thief vids show you what gear/traits they are using.

I run with a 20/0/30/20/0 build currently. It includes venoms and has great survivability.

TNoD.8143:

As a thief who has other level 80s, I don’t have a problem with thieves because I always know what they are doing while invis and I look for the auto attack animation change on hit. Thieves are not invincible when invis which is what a lot of people tend to forget.

Conclusion: if you hate thieves, play as one, learn how they think and then you can destroy them.

Spot on! It’s a L2P issue like I’ve said all along.

Just cause you throw a hammer doesn’t mean you will hit them. I’ve noticed sometimes that if I stealth and go for the stomp while in front of them, they can hit me with a hammer. I’ve also noticed that 9/10 if I’m behind them (closer to their head) when I go for the stomp, I don’t get hit.

That was an issue until I started using Roll for Initiative. It’s a life saver and will also ensure you have an unload ready after you use it.

Neither S/P or P/P give me much of a problem. But having played P/P I think there is room for improvement. I don’t recall the last time I ran into a S/P in wvw though.

What is your current build?

Sure, the thread is

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/P-P-S-D-WvW-Video-Something-Different/

It’s a pvp build. Different but works great. There’s a vid in the first post. Enjoy.

Dee Jay.2460:

I honestly don’t think it’s good design.

The problem is it renders many other effects like Swiftness obsolete as they prove to be a very minor boost.

It also has this addicting nature that playing without it feels clunky and slow.

It also sucks that it takes up one of our already very limited utility slots.

People may argue that you have a choice, but it’s not the good kind of choice. It’s a choice between playing slow-mode and what you’ve become accustomed to.

I’d much rather have a trait that grants a passive 25% speed and pick another active ability.

I agree, you become accustomed to having it. Even on my other toons I feel slow now. But having it as a trait that grants it as a passive is a great solution DeeJay.

They could also make the active a little more interesting.

I always use it, it’s an instant blind.

Hexiom.1396:

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. When I did my research, I saw a few WvW builds that didn’t really spend points on SA, so I figured I could get away without it.

Anyways, I updated my build to this:
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckzzc9cMlvFMMlvFM0pxf0zcVaqM08khT70z7kir7070M7kNs70V7ofD70m8ofY

I personally enjoy mug a lot, but I see why Feline Grace would be very useful. Maybe I’ll try both, and see what works best for me.

Also, Lofat, could link me to your video? I’m curious to see how that turned out.

I think I’m probably going to focus on Burst damage then, because I think I can use it in all facets of WvW. I maintained my equipment as it was before, except for the amulet and its jewel.

Sure, you can view the thread at

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/P-P-S-D-WvW-Video-Something-Different/

Enjoy

For starters you should max out the trolling traits in the QQ tree. You should take these three to maximize your abilities…

“Mommy I got beat by a thief”
“L2P”
“QQ wont make it better”

Additionally “Sore Loser” is a must have utility for anyone utilizing the QQ traits and for your Elite it would be silly not to take “Trollstorm”

Hope that helped.

So you want burst/survivability/condition in your build? You either choose burst or condition. If you like condition damage, you have to give it your all and work your build around condition damage. You can have survivability in burst or condition though, but it works best with 30 in SA.

I did a vid on a build that worked great in zergs, and was excellent when I wanted to roam. It consisted of P/P – S/D. Just remember, you can roll with a zerg regardless of your build.

But choose either burst or condition, can’t have the best of both worlds on a thief.

Bleeds.4029:

I have six 80’s, one of which is a thief that I am learning to dearly love (thanks Lofat for the p/p build!!). In the interests of keeping it real. My guardian with 3200 (and some change) armor has been backstabbed in excess of 8k. Maybe it’s rare and random, but it can happen. Combine that with 5-6k steal, and 6-7k CnD and things get out of hand quickly. Does it happen every time to my guardian? No. But it can happen. It makes armor feel utterly useless. Then again, all my 80’s have run into the bull rush/100 blades attack and without a stun break immediately (if at all) it is ridiculous and not survivable. This combo is far easier to mitigate on my guardian than any other of my chars by a long shot. Even my bunker ele gets eaten by 100 blades if I’m not paying attention.

Bottom line, there are some thieves out there that either have some kind of macro running that can get attacks off in such precise ways or they are truely god-like players because normal mortals die before they can react. On the other hand, a warrior can win in two button pushes if they catch you, usually from behind ~and~ if they are built that way ~and~ they have all the health and armor that comes for free with that class. Both are pretty OP, but none are game breaking…yet.

Rangers and Engineers can completely melt people also given the right circumstances, gear and build. Heck, you can even build a guardian glass cannon and melt people 1v1.

My problem is becoming more and more warrior focused as I learn the thief and their tricks. To beat a thief, survive the burst. To beat a warrior….well, I like seeing the full signet warriors because they are usually a free meal otherwise I try to just avoid them. Oh, and yes, one of my 80’s is a warrior….everyone’s favorite; a glass cannon rifle/greatsword warrior. Woot. I feel somewhat OP on the warrior, but again, not game breaking. My warrior is dirt napping as often as face melting.

Glad you’re enjoying the P/P build. It’s fun and powerful. Even more fun when you burst someone down with the pistols and then get up in their face with the S/D to finish them off.

I normally don’t have any issues fighting thieves on any of my toons. I can usually spot them before they have a chance to stealth, mug, cnd, backstab and leave me taking a dirt nap.

But if you’re expecting a thief to say “look over here, here I am” before you engage, it’s not likely to happen with a good thief. If I see a thief within 1500 yards and they stealth, guess what, they aren’t going to appear in front of me and ask me to dance… Chances are they are already planning and getting ready for the backstab.

Be aware of them, prepare, and assume he’s trying to position for a backstab. Remember, stealth only lasts 3-4 seconds. So dodge it, run from it, wait for him to show then stun/daze and destroy.

Figure out what kind of thief you want to play first. Do you like the thought of using backstabs? Would you rather use a sword? How about pistols? Figure out what your goals are (big crits, upfront damage, survivability, condition, etc.). Then you can find out what weps are best to use.

If it was easy, our class would be broken. There are things you can do to minimize the chances of a thief getting that many backstabs on you. Don’t stay in the same spot, make him work for his backstabs. If you’re fighting a thief, make it on your terms. Fighting out in the open makes it much easier for a thief to control the fight as opposed to working lines of sight to give you the advantage.

Think it would be a waste of a grandmaster trait. What real benefits would it give you for going that high in a tree besides seeing something you can’t target?

Singet of Shadows is a must at 25% run speed when you’re running around going for 100% completion. Saves a whole lot of time.

How is it not fair, you beat him. Not sure of the backstab build he was running if he wasn’t critting. But if he was able to get several backstabs off you didn’t do too well of a job positioning yourself. But then again, you did beat him.

Flip a coin, heads is asura and tails is sylvari. You’ll know what one you want while it’s in the air.

I like the asura storyline but then again, I’ve never rolled a sylvari.

cannons.8109:

They did. Anet just put all that in the patch notes to make the thief haters think that they nerfed thieves.

That made me LOL

Not bad, where’s the stealth nerf everyone and their mom kept QQ about and saying we were surely going to get?

Dee Jay is spot on. In your early levels, DA is your best choice for your traits. If you have a dagger equipped in your main hand, you’ll be able to backstab.

Practice stealing, hitting CnD (Cloak and Dagger), and positioning yourself behind your target. Once your stealthed and behind your target then you can get off a backstab. Have fun!

Besides finding the right build he’s going to have to work on getting his CnD timing down. It’s easy to practice in PVE since missing one CnD in PVP can cause your death. Practice on stuff in PVE till he’s comfortable enough to bring it to PVP.

As far as builds go, he’s using 2 pistols and 2 daggers. Is he dead set on keeping those two as his wep sets?

Should be fine. I’d take the full 30 in shadow arts for the stealth regen. As a thief it’s kind of a heal on demand when you CnD, especially if you take assassins reward in acrobatics.

Dee Jay.2460:

theunalignedant.7690:

Interesting, I will give it a try. The “death lotus spam” gameplay is viable against other players, though? I guess I just need more experience in landing them.

Honestly, I don’t really think it is. At least not in WvW. You’re better of playing Pistol/Dagger which works best with the same 0/0/30/20/20 build.

P/D is the way to go, unless your set on keeping your daggers. You can make the daggers work for you in a condition build though.

If your intentions are condition and survival go with a 0/0/30/20/20 build like this

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V;1Rw-a0S5FOkd0;9;6TJJ;434A59-46-a-17;9-1n

Gives you good survivability while focusing on condition damage.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqa8YlUmCNHfy5E+5Ex2DgmTeqVwldPwqVrKA

I chose back fighting over mug for those odd times when you do get downed, you’ll be able to rally back.

I might give bloodlust a shot and see how it works.

Go with S/D build. P/P or SB as your second.

Vital shot only lasts 4 1/2 seconds according to the tool tip but it only lasts 4 seconds according to the wiki at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vital_Shot

Stiv.1820:

Lofat.2406:

Thanks Shoogli! Paralyzation adds a full second to the daze. The other runes are superior sigils of ice and they do stack. I didn’t have those on the pistols for every fight in the video but they are the ones I’m sticking with. Having the Sigil of Paralyzation on the sword is a must. You need that extra second on the daze. The other sigils you can change out for whatever you want really, just as long as you keep the Paralyzation.

I’m avoiding using Para on my S/D combo because it will probably get fixed someday. I figure if I don’t ever use it I won’t have to get sad when it’s awesomeness is gone. So purposefulness gimping myself for now…

What are you using in place of paralyzation?

Those are excellent runes to go with for a P/D build.

But Gungnir is correct in stating that flanking strikes do not include condition damage. P/D build stays out of the critical strikes tree anyway. Your focus is straight up condition damage. You’ll love seeing those ticks of 100+ flying from your opponent though. Here’s a good build to mess with

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmCNHfy5E+5EB3jkC1mqp4m2sTBXlPA

Kasama, I’m sorry you keep getting stomped by us thieves because you’re bad at dealing with us on the bgs… So what do you recommend happens with stealth? Get rid of stealth? Make it shadow form? Only allow it outside of combat? Have it put pretty pink dresses with large flowers on us so you can see us?

If that’s the case, what’s next? Rangers shouldn’t be allowed to use bows and warriors should only fight drunken bare knuckle style? ANET doesn’t have a problem with how thieves are. So why do you? I believe that you have no idea how to counter or play against a thief. Yeah, it’s not fun. So revisit your build, see how other people do it, learn, play, have some fun, and quit whining about it…. It’s a L2P issue, face it!

Doomdesire.9365:

Everytime a thief uses steal, he will steal all of the enemy player’s money, which will be transferred into his inventory

I can roll with that! Then I could chase off entire enemy zergs and watch them scatter like rats when the see me coming!

haters gonna hate