Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

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I appreciate your comment. Thank you for taking the time to write all that.

1. I feel linking boons and conditions directly to different stats was a bit hasty on my part, but I still feel that stats should affect the skills in the game more directly than they do, aside from just making them more powerful. As it is now, I feel characters are too strong by themselves, which is why there’s this illusion that there aren’t any defined roles in combat. There are roles, they just aren’t as clear cut and apparent as they are usually are. I feel that, if done correctly, this concept would increase the presence and potency of other stats and make builds feel more distinct and unique from one another. I draw this concept from GW1s combat system and how effective it was at creating build diversity. Builds that had the exact same skills could feel completely different based on how you allocated your attributes, and could even give them completely different roles in combat.
2. In PvE, Offensive builds are the most powerful, but in PvP, I would argue defensive and condition builds are the most powerful. I would even go as far to say they’re too powerful. You don’t really see glass cannons in tPvP anymore, not even on thieves, who have switched to s/d from d/p. And the reason why defensive and condition-focused builds are so strong is largely because of passives and how stupidly simple it is to apply conditions. A burst build needs to significantly outplay a defensive condi build to win, and this shouldn’t be the case in a balanced game. Again, I feel builds are too powerful because they have access to too many options at once. I feel there needs to be a bit more specialization to achieve what we see in some of these builds.
3. That is a fair point. I would honestly prefer there were no defensive stats in GW2 and everyone had the same amount of defense dependent on their armor class. I would also prefer there were significantly more utilities and weapon choices to choose from so that one could specialize to a specific role based on skill choice rather than stat choice. However, I don’t see anet even considering this for this game (despite that it was done in their previous).

You should notice by now that I seem to care a lot about specialization. While good arguments can be made against it in an action-oriented game, I feel it is necessary in a team-oriented game. If you don’t have distinct roles, all the classes meld together and have the same playstyle. From playing all 8 classes extensively, I’m disappointed at how similar they all feel. The reason why you can bring any combination of classes into a dungeon and complete it with relative ease is because all of the classes are pretty much the same with slightly different themes and mechanics to differentiate them. This can be argued as both a good and bad thing, but from the success of GW1, I see it as a step down rather than up.

maha.7902:

There is build variety in PvE. They’re just a variety of damage and support focused builds. You do not like these builds. Because you do not like these builds, you claim there is no diversity, despite there actually being diversity.

I never said I disliked the builds. I very much appreciate the high-risk-high-reward gameplay berserker offers. My problem is that defensive stats are comparably useless to offensive stats in a team setting.

And there is no build diversity. Swapping out a utility or 2 depending on the dungeon and swapping out a weapon for a single encounter is not the same as build diversity. Literally every warrior is a carbon copy of every other warrior, every thief is the same as every other thief, etc. If there was build diversity, you would see professions not use the same trait template, same weapons, same armor, same runes and sigils, etc. But you do. You’re wrong.

Skoigoth.9238:

I enjoy instanced group-oriented content the most in PvE myself, but that doesn´t mean it is more important than other areas of the game and apparently the devs don´t consider it the core of the game either. Or how else would you explain the facts that they have disbanded their dungeon team ages ago and mostly balance the game around sPvP?

> The fact that they balance around PvP solidifies my point. They balance around team oriented-content. It doesn’t matter if their dungeon team was disbanded, it is still a fact that the most played content by far in PvE is dungeons. Thousands of people run dungeons each and every day, even 2 years after launch, and is really the only form of content people use the LFG tool for.

the current meta builds for organized dungeon groups are not about maximizing personal dps, this is simply wrong. These builds are about bringing as much support/utility as necessary to successfully complete certain content while sacrificing as few personal dps as possible.

> You agree with me then.

The variety comes mostly from different choices of weapons, traits, utilities, runes and sigils, depending on what content you are intending to do and how the rest of your group is set up. Things like that determine your play style so much more than the stats you have on your gear.

> The problem with your statement is most of the things you claim give build diversity are things people change on the fly. To me, changing a single utility or swapping out a weapon for a fight isn’t the same as having build diversity. People still use the same traits, or the same trait template, people still bring as much damage as possible and use berserker everything, people still use the same sigils and runes. There is a little variety in sigil and rune choice, but 9 times out of 10 it is a sigil or rune that increases damage.

Apparently we have different understandings of what “viable” means. To me it means “you can make this work” and not “this is the best way to do it”.

> That isn’t the point. The point here is what builds bring actual advantages and utility to a group. Not every build can do this. Yes, you can go full nomads in a berserker group and complete the dungeon just fine, but it wasn’t because the nomad set brought anything to the party. It was because the 4 other berserkers carried you.

why do you think this imaginary new meta would be less restrictive than the current one? I´m pretty happy we don´t have to deal with this “lf 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps”-stuff here in GW2.

> The game is already like that. You need to have a coordinated team in tPvP, have specific roles be filled in roaming groups in WvW, zergs need to have specific skills, traits, and weapons for WvW and world bosses, and so does PvE. You can’t JUST rush in with all glass cannons with no forms of defense. You STILL need to bring specific skills and traits to make the run possible, and this is what the meta is about.

> My suggestion would require certain roles to be filled. This isn’t a bad thing, especially in a group-oriented game. It’s not like you have to wait for specific classes. Every class can fulfill every needed roll. All one would need to do is change the trait set up and utilities/weapons and a new roll can be achieved. The only thing that would change is needing to actually talk to your team and coordinate a little bit before hand. I just wish your trait build ACTUALLY had some significance in what roll you played and were vital to that roll. As it is now, you can get all the defense and support you need from a few weapon skills, a utility or 2, and a specific trait among the ENTIRE TEAM. This is bad.

> Some would say this would just make people not want to run dungeons, and this would be true if dungeons stayed exactly the same. Right now, people are motivated to do things based on the rewards they get. Completing a normal dungeon gets you a gold for completing it, completing Arah gives you 3. However, no one does it because of how much of a hassle it is to do Arah. However, what if the reward was 10 gold per path? Everyone would do it every day, despite how much of a hassle it is.

I have to disagree once again, your suggestions are solely about stat mechanics and stat balance and not about encounter design at all.

> Because encounter designs aren’t the root of the problem. The best they can do is force players to move and not stack, but that’s about as much as they can do. The AI is still the same. The same problems that plague the game are still there. The problem is the mechanics themselves. Anet decided to try something new and innovated a lot, but when they changed the combat they kept in the fundamental mechanics from the other games that were designed around trinity combat and didn’t consider how they would affect their game. And it shows.

oxtred.7658:

Everytime someone says the meta is about maximising damage, he can’t be taken seriously.

It is though. The current meta is to deal as much damage as possible as fast as possible while utilizing supportive skills to keep the party alive. This is the whole point of warriors bringing banners, thieves bringing blinds, guardians bringing blinds, blocks, condi removal, and reflects, rangers bringing frost spirit and spotter, and elementalists bringing conjurer weapons.

This is also why fire fields are considered the best field, as they provide 3 stacks of might per blast to the party, which is more damage.

Skoigoth.9238:

@Loki: I appreciate the thought and work you´ve put into this, but in my opinion you got a lot of basic things wrong.

1. “The zerker meta” is only really relevant for a small portion of PvE (by itself already just a portion of this game) – Dungeons. Nobody cares what build you are using when you are completing heart quests or random dynamic events .
2. There is a very decent variety of builds within the meta. Out of all 8 classes, 7 classes are absolutely viable and even Necromancers are not so terrible that you actually couldn´t play them in dungeons at all.
3. NOBODY HAS TO PLAY THE META to succeed at anything in this game!! The meta is about maximum efficiency, not viability. If you like to do Arah with a full nomad´s setup, I am pretty sure you can do that if you really wish to.
4. If you try to “fix” the meta a new one will emerge and simply replace the old one.
5. The suggestions you´ve made would be a huge step towards trinity game play. Without things like a “proper” aggro mechanic, however, this would be a total disaster and the new meta would probably become full celestial or something like that.
6. You (as many others) are focusing WAY TO MUCH on stat balance, which is fine for the most part. I rather think that PvE has become stale and easy for many players because of a lack of variety when it comes to combat and mob mechanics.

Looking at what the devs have done in terms of combat/mob mechanics with the last couple of story updates (hard hitting trash mobs, mobs with tons of toughness, condi-spamming mobs, lots of hard CC, …), I am pretty sure that they will incentivize build variety and “out-of-the-box” thinking further in the future. This however has very little to do with stat balance.

1. I would argue that group-oriented raid/instanced content is the main form of PvE in this game, and I would consider solo-oriented content such as world completion and dynamic events to be a transition or distraction from the main game. This is a team-focus game, so to balance around solo play is counter-productive.
2. No, there actually isn’t. The meta for any class currently is to build as much damage as possible and take all the damage modifiers you can in your traits. That isn’t variety, and this touches upon what I said earlier, which is you bring classes for their support and utility over their damage.
3. If you call everything viable, then the term viable loses its meaning. I would argue only few things currently are viable in group play, and they all revolve around as much damage as possible. A defensive build is a hindrance more than an asset in a team-oriented situation with only a few small exceptions.
4. That is fine. The purpose of my suggestion wasn’t to get rid of a meta, but rather change the meta to include a higher variety of builds and to make defensive builds actually useful in a team situation.
5. This may be true. This is why I emphasized at the end to focus on the concept rather than the details I provided, and to discuss how this would change the game for better or worse.
6. I don’t see how this is something that conflicts with my suggestion. Rather, I feel my suggestion actually addresses this very problem.

I suggested this because I do not think the new mob mechanics will change anything at all. Different design encounters won’t be enough to promote build diversity. Good design can promote movement over stacking, but when you can mitigate 100% of the damage through supportive and utility skills and kill the husks just as fast with raw damage, berserker is still going to be the best in every scenario,

Seera.5916:

So my Elementalist isn’t supposed to be able to burn, chill, cripple my foes unless I spec for condition?

No thanks.

Every class should be able to do everything to some degree. Spec’ing for something should only make you better in that area. Not give you the ability to do that. Not for this game.

I didn’t include movement crippling conditions and CC because I feel every class should be able to do those, but I do maintain that classes shouldn’t be able to apply damaging conditions unless they spec for it, giving a few exceptions for traits and profession mechanics.

Additionally, saying every class should be able to do everything to some degree does not mean every class should be able to do everything at any given time with no specialization. The suggestion I gave still allows for classes to do a bit of everything, and even more than what they currently can do if balanced correctly, but the difference being you have to specialize in what you want to do rather than have every class and player have literally every option at every given moment. It’s for that reason this game feels so casual to begin with.

I also stated however not to take my examples to heart and to focus on the concept I gave instead of the actual specifics.

Dalanor.5387:

Oh boy, here we go again. Let me summarize your post.
Zerkers will become more damaging, tanky ones become more tanky AND can dodge more. Where is the logic and “solution” in this? Asking for a change just for the sake of changing isn’t a good idea in my opinion.
If full defensive builds wouldn’t be inbalanced enough while negating core mechanics of the game like dodge … Not to mention when you can simply AFK bosses with legit tactics.
But if you make berserker’s obsolete in some or every encounter there will be another meta. Like how soldier’s gear is highly recommended at Teq.

Can we merge these kind of threads into one? It’s starts to get boring when someones open a new topic every day.

I’m suspecting you didn’t read my post, because you completely missed my point, which was that defensive stats are useless only because defensive utilities and support is too strong. Thus, tying those mechanics to defensive stats gives those stats actual use and viability.

My suggestion doesn’t make defensive builds more defensive, it makes it so players need to specifically spec to use defensive utilities and supports to their fullest, while also making it so players need to specifically build boons and conditions into their build if they want to have them; they aren’t just freely given.

Please go read my post and give me actual criticism.

>> THE SUGGESTION <<
Stats should directly affect the potency of skills. Too many skills just naturally apply really strong effects without having to spec into them. Powerful berserker builds can apply conditions by just hitting the enemy with crits, despite having no condition damage. Nearly every class can throw out a ton of party boons like they are nothing. Classes can mitigate all forms of damage by throwing blinds, blocks, and evades without speccing at all into survivability. Stats need to affect more than just damage.

> I suggest stats affect the potency of skills, requiring you to include a specific stat into your build to accomplish different effects. Certain thresholds should be met to trigger the effects of certain skills as well. For instance,

• Power should affect your overall damage output as well as increasing the potency of might, retaliation, and vulnerability. After meeting a specific threshold, skills will be able to apply might, retaliation and vulnerability.
• Precision should affect your crit chance and increases the potency of fury, weakness, and blind. After a threshold, skills will be able to apply fury, weakness and blind.
• Toughness should reduce the amount of damage you take, increases the duration of defensive skills such as blocks and invulnerabilities, increases the potency of protection, stability, aegis (last longer, after a threshold can block more attacks), and decreases the potency vulnerability and weakness applied to you.
• Vitality should increase your total HP, increase your maximum dodge points (allow you to dodge with higher vitality. To make this work, the default DP a person should have should be 50 (instead of 100)), increase the potency of evasive skills, increase the potency of swiftness and vigor, and decreases the potency of cripple, immobilize, and chilled applied to you.
• Healing power should affect how fast you res someone, how fast you are ressed, increase the amount of HP in downed state, increase the amount your heal skills heal for, and increases the potency of regeneration, and decreases the potency of DoTs applied to you (bleeds, poison, burning, torment, confusion).

Additionally, new stats should be added called condition mastery, which is a combination of condition damage and condition duration, and boon mastery, which is a combination of boon duration and healing power.

• Condition mastery will affect the potency of conditions you apply, and after a threshold, your skills will be able to apply bleeding, poison, burning, confusion, and torment.
• Boon mastery will affect the potency of boon you apply, and after a threshold, your attacks will be able to apply a variety of boons, and boon you apply will also be applied to your party members. The idea to this is party boons should only be made possible with this stat, given a few exceptions.
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>> CLOSING COMMENTS <<
It is likely my suggestions are far from the best of choices, but they are meant to illustrate the idea discussed. I believe the suggestion should be given some consideration as to how effective it would be and how it would change the game, for better or worse.

Please note the focus of my post is directed at PvE more so than PvP and WvWvW.

>> PREAMBLE <<
Since the game’s launch, the berserker stat set (Power/Precision/Ferocity) has been considered by most to be the most powerful and optimal set in the game, so much so that most other stat combinations are seen as a hindrance to a team rather than an asset. It can trivialize most forms of content without much effort and leaves little room for improvement.

After 2 years of this state, many people have grown restless and wish to see more variety in viable stat combinations in team-oriented play, but there has been little direction given in how this can be accomplished.

And so, the focus of this topic is to discuss why the game has such a heavy bias towards the berserker stat set and what can be done to change that in favor of more viable stat sets in PvE.
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>> THE PROBLEM <<
To understand how to add more build variety to PvE, we need to first understand why there isn’t variety. Many people would be very quick to point fingers at the poor implementation of dungeon encounters, but I feel the root of the problem is far deeper, hidden in the mechanics of the game itself.

GW2 is different from other MMOs primarily in its combat system. Instead of a stationary battles with a trinity set up, GW2 has a combat system that lacks a hard-trinity and has a huge emphasis on movement and positioning. Given this, it doesn’t make sense to use the same mechanics as trinity-based combat in this game. So why does it?

> One of the biggest, glaring reasons for why GW2 has a huge emphasis on berserker stats is because of how little defensive stats are needed in actual combat. In a trinity-based combat system, defense is needed for the tank to hold aggro and survive the damage being thrown at him. Defense is useful because damage is unavoidable. However, in GW2, every attack can be mitigated or negate entirely with movement, positioning, and good usage of skills. There is also no reliable aggro mechanic, so there cannot be a dedicated tank to divert damage away from the party. So then, what use are defensive stats when you can avoid all the damage? What use is being defensive when the boss is attacking your squishy party member and throwing AoEs everywhere?

The fundamental difference between the two combats is in a trinity game defensive stats are a selfless decision that keeps the party alive and coordinated, where in GW2 defensive stats are purely selfish and provide nothing to the team aside from personal survivability (which is also less necessary due to the downed and rally mechanics). You are much more useful doing more damage and ending the fight quicker than to survive longer but force the party to deal with the fight mechanics longer.

> The second biggest reason why Berserker stats are so powerful is because of how powerful supportive skills are, and how you don’t need to specifically spec to use them. In this game, every class can do a bit of everything. Most of all, every class can do a lot of damage, especially with a berserker stat. Thus, classes aren’t chosen on their damage output, but rather what utility they can bring to the party. Thieves have the highest single-target damage in the game, but they are brought for their aoe blinds, stealths, and blast finishers over their damage. Warriors do a lot of cleave damage, but they are brought for their banners, might, fury, and vulnerability. And so on.

Classes can fill nearly every roll needed in combat without having to spec for it, and this is the problem. You don’t need to be defensive because you can just blind, block, evade, dodge, invuln, and just plain walk out of range of the attack. Your stats don’t do anything aside from increasing your damage output and decreasing your damage input. If there is to be build variety, this needs to change.
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I’ll go ahead and post some of my thoughts in a bit, but for now I’ll go ahead and welcome you to the community. If you search around the forums, you will see a lot of negative sounding posts (which isn’t that rare for an MMO), but I assure you the complaints stem from the fact that people like this game and want it to succeed, and not because they hate the game.

If you are coming from Skyrim, then I suspect you’ll have a really good time with this game, as it is similar in a lot of ways.

I’ll be more than happy to add you ingame and help you out/explain some stuff if you like. Just add my tag to the left of this post when you get in game to your friends list, which you can access with the default shortcut Y, or pressing the face icon at the top left of your screen (where you can access all of the UI menus).

I’ll make another post with some tip and thoughts in a bit when I’m a little less preoccupied.

What should be on the top of my Priority list?

>> Your top priority should be to have fun. There are a lot of different forms of content in this game, and while you could decide to primarily focus on one, I find the game is most fun when you hop between all of them. Do you want to do PvP? Go to the Heart of the Mists and do some completely balanced structured PvP, where everything you need is provided to you. Want to explore the world, complete events, and complete content that focuses on group-oriented instances? Do PvE. Do you like the idea of running around with dozens of other players attacking other groups of players? WvWvW is your thing.

This game offers something for everyone, and it’s really up to you to decide what you want to focus on. Since you are just starting out, I would suggest leveling up normally by playing the game in PvE. Explore a lot and try to find as much stuff as possible. Additionally, learning the combat system early is the best thing you can do in this game, since it’s the one thing you’re going to be doing the most. It has a heavy emphasis on positioning and movement, so the sooner you learn to move while attacking, how to dodge attacks, and how to attack without clicking the skills, the better.

Another thing I would highly suggest is find a guild to play with. It shouldn’t be that hard to find one, you can probably just ask in map chat and get a lot of responses. People are really friendly in this game, so don’t be hesitant to say you are new. In my experience, people will jump on the opportunity to help new people. This game is designed to be social, so playing with other people will make the experience all the more positive.

Anyways, there is too much in this game to explain in a single post on the forums. Go ahead and add me in game and I’ll be glad to help with anything. I also haven’t made a new character since they changed the leveling experience, so I’ll be more than happy to play along with you too.

I hope you enjoy your time here, and feel free to ask anything you want. Cheers ~

IndigoSundown.5419:

I concur that in high-end play (such as it is in GW2), defensive stats are useless and fruitless. If that’s your definition of the main game, then that’s the source of our disagreement. Rereading our conversation, I probably should have picked that out sooner.

I have to question what the “main game” is in ANet’s mind. It seems to me that the emphasis is more on large, persistent world content. A lot of that content is hardly high-end play by any definition I’d accept.

When I go to such events, I see an awful lot of downed players. Of course, there’s always the possibility that the downed I see are at those events for the first time and thus in the learning curve. When I say that defensive stats are useful in PvE, it’s with those players in mind, whether it’s as training wheels, because they’ve capped their skill, have lousy FPS, don’t want to get better or just prefer to be more resilient for any other reason.

I apologize for continuing this discussion, as I realize we mostly agree. But, there are a few things I wish to add.

At this point in time, I simply cannot consider the open-world content the main game of GW2 PvE. I see it as the transition to the main game, which I would consider team-oriented content largely involving instances and/or raid formats.

It seems to me open-world content is popular only when it is first released, and then very quickly dwindles down in population after its release. The reason for this is because the content offers a very specific reward, and once people obtain that reward they have no further reason to continue the content. I feel the newest map is a prime example of this.

One the first few days of the patch, the new map was constantly swarmed with people completing the events for their achievements. Nearly every meta event would be completed or almost completed. Then, after a while, people realized you could get better rewards by just farming the chests at amber, and nearly EVERYONE did that until it was nerfed. After the nerf, barely anyone plays on the map anymore, and the meta events always fail, with the best I’ve seen is only 2/5 of the bosses getting killed.

With the rest of the map, nearly every zone is a ghost town. The only maps that have populations in them are the maps people can grind/farm for rewards, and its typically for cosmetics or stats for team-oriented play.

On the other hand, people are still constantly doing dungeons, fractals, world bosses/raids, and the story instances (for the achievements and rewards from them) and often require parties to complete. Even 2 years after launch, thousands of players do the same dungeon each and every day. Where in the open-world, you’re lucky to see 10 people after the hype has ended.

With this in mind, I can’t see defensive stats be useful. And just to clarify, just because something sees use does not make it useful. I feel my comparison to people running around naked or without weapons to be an apt example of this.

I would also argue that having defensive stats makes you a worse player, as you can often ignore the mechanics longer and learn slower, thus causing you to be downed more than if you were playing with a zerker set. Additionally, a lot of the really hard content in PvE, such as high-level fractals and even the queen’s gauntlet, have mechanics that will one-shot you or deal significant damage despite how much armor you have. There really isn’t any benefit to be defensive in PvE.

Defensive stats are useful only when damage can’t be avoided. That’s why they find use in PvP scenarios. But in PvE, where everything has a tell, they just don’t cut it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’ll withdraw the statement about casual v. optimization then, but I’ll still contest the basic premise that there is no place in PvE for defensive stats. Optimization is not a consequence of playing the game, it is a consequence of choosing to optimize. If it were a consequence of playing, then everyone playing the game would be optimizing and there would be no non-berserkers sneaking into berserker-only dungeon groups. Do you want to make the argument that that is in fact what’s happening?

If any PvE players are choosing to use defensive stats for any reason, despite the PvE meta’s embracing of glass stats, then there is a use for defensive stats in PvE. The developer built the game for the entire player base, not just for those who are concerned with efficiency. However, I’ll agree that players who prefer to use defensive stats should stay away from dungeon groups that advertise a preference for efficiency.

I apologize for not answering earlier, I missed your reply last night.

You say you are going to withdraw your statement about casual meaning a lack of optimization, and then spend the rest of your comment talking about optimization. Cute.

“Optimization is not a consequence of playing the game, it is a consequence of choosing to optimize.”

That right there is a tautology. People don’t learn how to optimize by choosing they want to be optimal, they learn how to optimize by playing the game and learning the mechanics. This is why I say optimization is a product of playing the game, learning is something we do automatically.

Any first run of any content will not be optimal. You will have no knowledge of the mechanics will not know what to look out for and how to react to it. However, after your initial experience, you then do learn the mechanics and what to look out for, and you do better the in the following runs. Thus, the later runs are more optimal than the first simply because you played the game and learned. There was no inherent choice in the matter to get better, it just happened. I would argue the only instance of someone who doesn’t optimize their play is someone who chooses to not get better and to not learn at all.

Zerker gear is a result of wanting to play better. It’s a gear set that forces you to react to attacks rather than just sit there, and it rewards you accordingly. Everyone I’ve talked to who has switched from a defensive stat to zerker stat has said it was a positive experience and would never go back. Zerker is the meta in PvE for a reason. It’s not elitism, it’s just the result of getting better at the game, and wanting to do so (Which I would argue is most people).

Yes, people do use defensive stats in PvE, but they don’t use it because it provides any inherent advantage or benefit for doing so. They use it because it is a choice. There are also some people who run around without any armor or weapons. That doesn’t make that useful either.

When the only purpose of defensive stats is to be training wheels for players outside of the main game, they are useless in the main game. If your disagreement comes solely from the word useless, then I can use a different term instead to satisfy you.

Instead of saying they are useless, it would probably be better to say they are fruitless, or they provide no advantage. Happy now?

Nova Stiker.8396:

snip

What you are suggesting is easier said than done. There actually isn’t much difference between the old enemies and the new ones. The new enemies just have slightly different mechanics attached to them and have better design scenarios. But they still act the same way as every other NPC in the game. Adding more skills won’t necessarily make enemies more challenging either. Skills that are used under certain conditions can be easily manipulated and controlled. Skill that are used at random are unreliable and will almost nearly never be used optimally.

And I’m fairly certain there is a reason why all the NPCs in the game attack at the rate they do. I’m sure its because they can’t attack any faster because they have to go through so many algorithms already. Between each attack, they have to

1. Locate all the players and enemies.
2. Calculate who to attack based on certain criteria.
3. Create a path to the target and follow it.
4. Review all the available actions.
5. Use the action that best fits the present conditions
6. Repeat.

And even with your scenario, defensive stats don’t get any better. The reason why defensive stats are so bad in PvE isn’t because of how encounters are designed or imbalance, it’s because there is no reliable aggro mechanic. What’s the use of being tanky when the enemy is targeting your squishy teammate or throwing AoEs everywhere? What’s the point of being tanky when you can just avoid, evade, block, dodge, or blind the attack?

The only time defensive stats are useful is when damage is unavoidable. And unavoidable damage is just poor design in an action-oriented combat system.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Loki.8793:

However, despite either approach, there is one glaring flaw with GW2’s combat system that I simply can not see an answer to. Defensive stats and builds simply have no place in this game (PvE).

Defensive stats allow people to make mistakes, as you said later in this same paragraph, essentially refuting your own point. Earlier, you stated that GW2’s combat system provided a casual feel — by which I presume you to mean laid back, not concerned with maximum optimization. You then proceed to judge defensive stats from the standpoint of optimization. There’s plenty of use for defensive stats in all three game modes, whereas there is no need for them in optimized dungeon speed runs and maybe not in the pseudo speed run PuG.

Even if there were zero uses for defensive stats in PvE — which I dispute — there would be uses for them in WvW, which uses PvE gear and builds.

To address your last remark first, I specifically stated that defensive stats and builds are useless in this game’s PvE. I am aware WvWvW and sPvP finds use for them.

And as for the rest of your comment, I find your disagreement to be a mere nitpick. In PvE, there is no situation where a defensive build is superior to an offensive build, especially in team scenarios. They hinder groups because they are entirely selfish and force the other 4 members to carry. This is why PvE has been in a zerker meta from the very beginning. This isn’t because it was an oversight from the devs or because of bad balancing, it’s because it is the inevitable result of an action oriented combat system with no reliable aggro mechanics.

You can argue that there is use in defensive builds because they allow players to make more mistakes, but the cost of that is making the fight last significantly longer, thus leaving more room for further mistakes to be made.

You say I contradicted myself because I spoke in terms of optimization after saying the game felt casual, but I didn’t say anything about a casual feel lacking optimization. You did. I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment either. I feel optimization is a consequence of playing the game. You’re trying too hard to disagree.

The problems with combat in GW2 lay mostly with the design of the encounters more than they do with the actual mechanics of the game. Sure, there are some things that can be tweaked or changed, such as the condition cap and defiant, but ultimately the answer lays in how the encounter is designed.

For instance, GW2’s combat system is heavily dependent on active combat and proactive defense, emphasizing movement, positioning, and timing. With a combat system like this, it would make sense then to design encounters where movement and positioning are key factors to success. However, what we see instead are giant Damage Sponges who have large telegraphed attacks you just need to move out of while pressing 1 a lot. Or, worse, just stack on top of the boss and negate any form of challenge or thought entirely.

There is no inherent trinity in this game such that there is a required formula for success; every profession can do a little bit of everything and can provide the needed role in the group at any time. And while this is an interesting approach, it is ultimately the reason why the encounters are designed so poorly.

GW2 is a game that promotes flexibility over structure. Meaning, the game is designed in such a way that you can play what you want with whoever you want and be able to succeed. This means the encounters can not contain variables that any group can not overcome. This is what gives GW2 its casual feel.

To make content more challenging, it needs to sacrifice flexibility for structure. For instance, the new Husk enemies are a good idea to promote condition damage in groups. If you have enemies that have low armor but high hp, you need physical damage to best them. If you have enemies with low hp but high armor, you need condition damage to best them. With these 2 enemies thrown into the encounters, suddenly groups need both high physical damage and high condition damage. If you have enemies that are otherwise immune to damage until they are CCd, suddenly CC becomes needed as well. With just these 3 types of enemies added to normal encounters, a lot more builds gain viability. However, flexibility is now lost, and to complete this content, specific team compositions will be needed, the same way traditional trinity models need specific team compositions.

However, despite either approach, there is one glaring flaw with GW2’s combat system that I simply can not see an answer to. Defensive stats and builds simply have no place in this game (PvE). There is no aggro mechanic, so there can’t be dedicated tanks. If there was, then you would also need a healer, and you have the trinity model. However, there is no reliable way to draw aggro. Additionally, because of the heavy emphasis on movement, positioning, and timing in the combat, good players can and will nullify nearly all the damage thrown out at them, thus rendering their defensive stats useless. What this means is in this game, defensive stats are nothing more than a padding so you can make more mistakes. There’s no inherent game play mechanics that require defensive stats, such as tanking, and so they are useless in high level play. This is the very reason why PvE has been in a zerker meta from the very start, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

THE BAD CONTINUED

• The stupid amount of waiting – Overall, Glint’s Lair was absolutely amazing. The new mechanics were interesting in both their concept and how they were used. However, my biggest complaint with the boss fights was how much Waiting was involved. For 3 of the bosses, you had to wait for the boss to do a specific action that would allow you to start damaging it.
  With the Second boss, you had to wait for the trash enemy to spawn, run to you, wait for its invulnerability to disappear, kill it, then run to associated color, and THEN you could damage the boss. Run away when invulnerability buff ends, wait for trash to spawn again, repeat until dead.
  With the third boss, he was invulnerable to damage and could only be damage by destroying the vortex crystals surrounding him. However, you could only destroy the crystals in they had the fragility condition applied to them, which could only happen if they absorb it from you. This concept in itself is awesome. In order to deal damage to the enemy, you have to utilize movement and positioning while putting yourself at risk. Having fragility means you’ll die in a single hit, so it’s super serious. However, the problems were 1, the boss attacks so stupidly slow you’ll never be hit even if you were a turtle, and 2, fragility only appears during a specific attack from the boss. So what happens is you end up WAITING for the boss to do a specific attack 8 times, and then you kill it under 10 seconds.
  Third boss is just a combination of the second and third boss, containing all of the same problems.
  You see, GW2 has an extremely active combat system. It’s based around making active decisions and proactively defending yourself, while emphasizing quick movement and intelligent positioning. And for these fights, you threw all of that out the window for some gimmicks. Bad Anet, bad!

Anyways, despite the criticism, I still loved the patch and can’t wait to see what else you have in store. In the future patches can be of this quality, then I have a lot to look forward to.

Keep it up Anet, I love your passion and creativity.

THE BAD

• The group achievements – While I said above that the achievements felt rewarding to do, I also didn’t have a good experience doing them. A lot of the reward, unfortunately, was getting them over with so I didn’t have to do them again. One of my biggest pet peeves in this game is having achievements require a group of people to complete. Having to rely on other people to get something I want for myself leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
  Nearly every achievement in the new map requires a significant amount of people to do. I understand that the map is centered around team coordination, but you have to think about the future. How long are people going to be playing this map? A Month? Two Months? How many people are going to be participating a year down the road? What about the new players who come in after the bandwagon has left? It’s fine to have content centered around group coordination (which was done very, very well), but when people who are trying to complete achievements come to the map and realize they can’t do any of them without a ton of people, they’re basically SoL. These kind of experiences are fun right when the content is released, but really poor and frustrating after the hype is gone.

• The Legendaries – I HATE THESE! Not for their mechanics or the encounters themselves, but rather how poorly they were handled. In the new map, there are 4 forts for you to capture and defend. Each time you successfully defend the fort from attacks, the defense level of the fort is increased. When you successfully get to defense rank 3, a Legendary associated with that fort has a RANDOM chance of appearing. What is worse is defeating these legendaries gives you a gnarly title, and defeating all 4 will give you an even gnarlier one. However, because it is completely RANDOM when these guys will show up, AND that it takes a lot of people to complete, AND that they can appear during defense events, AND that the one you want to show up likely won’t appear AT ALL for hours or even a day is horrible. This isn’t fun, nor does it create fun scenarios. What it does is create artificial longevity.
  I understand that the intended concept was to have fun surprises. These guys would appear without warning when you’re already stressed from having to constantly defend something, and when they appear it’s this huge highlight because not only do you have to survive the enemies bombarding your fort and rushing the lord you have to defend, NOW this huge legendary is in the equation as well that you have to somehow deal with. HOWEVER, In reality, these guys aren’t dangerous at all. They’re just damage sponges.
  What actually happens is you end up waiting at a fort for hours on end for the legendary to spawn so you can get your achievement and title, and they never show up. For me, I got the first 3 Legendaries within 5 or so hours of playing, and then waited the rest of the day for the fourth one to show up, only for it to never do so. It was only until half way through the second day that it did, and only once. during that time, the one at red spawned over a dozen times, while the other 2 spawned maybe once or twice. And, most times, the legendaries don’t spawn AT ALL. This is just plain frustrating.
  The concept itself was fine, but tacking on achievements and titles to something that is completely random AND requires a ton of people to complete is just evil.

I would like to start off by saying that the praise this patch is receiving is much deserved, and I hope to see future patches of the same quality. However, nothing is without its faults, and so I’d like to detail what was done well in the patch and, most importantly, what wasn’t. The purpose of this post is to promote constructive criticism and discussion.

THE GOOD

• The new map – Adding new permanent content to the game is always a good thing, especially when it can expand the world and, more importantly, player interaction and choice. The map may be small, but it does everything right and is full with content.
  As many have said, this new map is everything Orr should have been, and is a testament to how successful and engaging dynamic events can be. And the pillar of its success is the implementation of WvW mechanics into a PvE setting, which work wonderfully. This addition allows a real push-and-pull mentality that emulates the feeling of a war or conflict. And, the usage of only a single waypoint makes pushing out into the map and holding the forts all the more important and engaging. The frequent attacks on the forts by the Mordrum and the intelligence of attacking from multiple angles with different forces, tactics, and siege make for engaging experiences. It’s just fun, and I would love to see more of this in the future. GW2 has a very active combat system, but it has been unfortunately hindered by the poorly designed encounters. Experiences that promote movement, positioning, and teamwork are a step in the right direction.

• The rewards – While there are many forms of content in the game that are more physically rewarding than what this patch has to offer, the difference is the rewards here feel good to receive, both from the achievements and the events. Getting a new currency from participating in events that you can spend for unique rewards is what gets people to go and stay on your new map. The only nitpick I have is having to open the chests each and every time I do an event and that the currency is not automatically put into your account wallet.
  However, the real success here is the rewards you get from the story and achievements. Getting a new skin is always an incentive to do something in this game, but utilizing the collections mechanic to drive players to different form of content on a scavenger-hunt mentality is something we need more of. For the last 4 patches, I didn’t even touch the new achievements for the story because I didn’t see a reason to do so. I didn’t get anything out from it except some trash loot and a very small amount of AP. This time, however, it felt extremely rewarding to do everything, from the new titles to the new armor pieces. It’s unfortunate how a reward-mentality is used to drive people to do content, but as long as it is going to be done, it should be done like this.

• The story – I don’t need to say this, but the story this patch has been significantly higher quality than anything else we’ve seen in GW2. And one of the main reasons for this, I feel, is the call-backs to the already established lore from GW1. As Wooden Potatoes has said, It feels like Anet suddenly remembered they had a previous game already filled with a ton of engaging lore and mystery they could tap into and utilize, and the many, many references to that lore gives me hope for the future. I understand that GW2 is a new game and is its own thing not to be compared to its predecessor, but when you already have interesting and detailed lore in your hands, it doesn’t make sense to not use it. I’m glad to see that, if nothing else, Anet remembers and acknowledges the lore of Tyria that so many of us fell in love with in GW1.

• The mechanics – Mostly found in Glint’s lair, how the new mechanics that were added was handled exceptionally well. While the vortex crystals, fragility, permanent area debuffs (call-back from Glint’s lair in GW1), black areas of doom, and the colored aspects needed to traverse those areas of doom are all unique and interesting, what I find more impressive is how Anet handled introducing these new mechanics. In each area, you were given a new mechanic to deal with, and to progress you had to learn, understand, and show mastery over it to progress. Then, after you learned how the mechanic worked, you had to then utilize that mechanic to defeat the boss waiting for you. No damage sponges here. There was no tutorial, no NPC you had to talk to to explain how everything worked, no holding your hand the entire way though. Everything you learned, you learned through the gameplay. And I appreciate that.

Here’s some of my thoughts from playing thief for over 2 years in sPvP.

GW2’s combat system is one the prioritizes active play rather than reactive play. You can completely mitigate all forms of incoming damage thrown at you by evading or dodging the attacks. Thus, the best form of defense is preventing the damage from hitting you at all. And the thief is a profession that is built around this concept.

You see, the thief isn’t designed to take damage. It has the lowest HP pool in the game, tied with elementalist, and its armor doesn’t mitigate much damage. A thief will die just as fast as an elementalist. The way these professions are able to be on par with the others is how they deal with damage. Where the elementalist has a plethora of boons, damage mitigations, CCs, and heals, the thief survives by preventing and avoiding the damage thrown at it altogether. And it does this through its plethora of blinds, evades, stealths, and its superior mobility.

And this is why the main build for thieves has absolutely no defensive traits or gear. Because the thief already has so many defensive options in its skills and utilities, there is no reason to build defensively. As long as you play well, you won’t get hit. So your options are best put towards offense to kill your opponents quicker than anything else.

With d/p, you have good mobility from heartseeker, shadowshot, and steal, a stupid amount of blinds, a spammable interrupt, and readily access to stealth at any time (From heartseeker + Black powder combo). The beauty of this set is you can use all of these options for both offense and defense simultaneously, meaning you don’t particularly need to spec for defensive traits or gear. Ideally, you shouldn’t be taking any direct damage. The damage you sustain should mostly be from passives, fields, boons like retaliation, and the occasional auto attack or aoe that manages to connect. And because of this, the healing you get from mug and your heal skill should be enough to sustain yourself for as long as needed.

The key to the thief is learning how to choose your battles and to use your environment to the fullest. Your mobility and stealths let you engage and disengage seemingly at will, and your mobility and teleports allow you to maneuver the battlefield with ease.

But enough context, you want actual tactics and information.

As I stated above, I find that mug and hide in shadows/withdraw are usually sufficient for surviving fights for a long period of time. But your choice of utilities really helps too, especially when things don’t go your way. The most common utilities used by thieves for the 2/6/0/0/6 d/p build is infiltrator’s signet, shadow refuge, and shadowstep. Of these 3, there is really only 1 I’d recommend you change to your personal preference.

• The signet is useful because of the instant teleport. It is also a stun breaker, so it can get you out of a lot of situations and is amazing for offensive purposes.
• Shadowstep is arguably one of the best utilities in the game. It is an instant cast, ground target teleport with 1200 range, breaks stun, and can be activated again within 10 seconds to teleport back to your original location. Using it the second time is ALSO a stun break and removes 3 conditions. This skill is just so versatile. It can be used for mobility, offensive purposes, defensive purposes, and for its utility of removing conditions or guaranteeing stomps. Always have this on your bar for PvP settings.
• Shadow refuge gives you about a dozen seconds of stealth if you stay in it for the full duration, while also providing a bit of healing. It’s a fantastic support skill in group scenarios and can help you reset a fight if you are starting to lose (or just run away). It’s also a combo field, however, and projectiles will give you life steal if they land, also helping with survivability in some situations. However, its use is somewhat limited. You can replace it with a lot of other good options to your preference. Some good choices are:
  Blinding powder -Instant stealth, aoe blind, blast finisher
  Signet of agility – Increased precision, refill endurance bar of yourself and up to 4 allies, and removes a condition
  Roll for initiative – Huge retreat distance, an evade, restores 6 initiative, and removes all movement crippling conditions
  Smokescreen – Blocks projectiles, blinds melee, lasts 7 seconds, low cooldown, and is a smoke field that you can combo with to produce stealths just as long as shadow refuge
  Devourer venom – Long immobilize

Learning to use your skills and utilities to prevent taking damage is really the key to being a good thief. And this is why good thieves are often really good players in general. If you can play well with a thief, you can play well on anything. Watch good thieves and see how they play, and pay attention to how they react to different situations.

Anyways, good luck. Cheers ~

revodeel.2651:

QQQQQQQ
Guild Wars 2 is dying.
Guild Wars 2 is boring.
Guild Wars 2 is p2w.
Anet doesn’t care about veteran players.
Anet promised to end world hunger.
They PROMISED!!!!!!!!!
QQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Am I doing it right?

B+

You forgot to insult the devs and proclaim you know how to develop the game better than they do.

Elegie.3620:

You compare stats, stating that the damage is the same – something I haven’t bother checking, so I’m willing to concede that you are right, since you’ve actually put the effort into comparing the actual figures. But the nature of the damage differ: do you consider that 6k physical instant damage is equivalent to 6k condition damage over x seconds?

It depends on how the damage is applied. If that 6k raw damage was caused by, say, a warrior’s eviscerate, who had to count dodges, be aware of any boons, set up the skill, and time it well to land that eviscerate is compared to an engineer’s incendiary powder that proced on the very first auto attack he landed with his pistol, then it’s very clear that the engineer was superior. There was no risk in his play and no skill involved, he simply had to press 1 and wait for a critical and he got the same exact results as a warrior who outplayed his opponent to land his eviscerate.

If 4k raw damage was caused by a ranger’s rapid fire, which he can use from 1200 range every 8 seconds is compared to a necromancer’s grasping dead, which can be used from 900 range every 10 seconds, then the ranger’s is superior because the damage was instant.

However, you also have to take into consideration what the professions sacrifice to obtain that damage. A class that can land 6k damage in a single hit is clearly specced entirely for damage and almost nothing for defense. This means that often times that 6k damaging attack is very critical to land, because missing it could mean losing the fight. On the other hand, when you have conditions that can deal close to the same amount of damage with less, or about the same, effort but also have a superior advantage over raw and condition damage, then that damaging attack isn’t as crucial to land.

You also have to take into consideration that one type of damage is instant while the other takes time to deal its damage. However, consider the ranger/necromancer example. The ranger is able to do 4k damage with rapid fire every 8 seconds, giving the ranger an average of 500 damage/second with that one skill. If a necromancer can do 4k damage every 10 seconds with grasping dead, then that’s 400 damage/second with that one skill. The ranger is superior because the damage is instant and does more overall damage, but the necromancer is comparable because it can do around the same amount with the same effort while also having more survivability.

Elegie.3620:

I was responding to your assertion about the auto-attack being the main way to inflict conditions, and used the warrior class because it was a good example to illustrate my point.

Conditions can be applied from melee or range, target or AoE, controlled or AI skills, mirroring physical damage. If you state that conditions are only applied through ranged skills, and suggest that the warrior is a particular case, then what about the Mesmer’s scepter #2 or torch #5, the Ranger’s sword #3 or dagger #4, the Guardian’s torch #4, or the Elementalist dagger #2?

I believe you are pulling the words out of my mouth. I never said that auto attacks were the main way to deal condition damage. I specifically said that damaging conditions are mainly dealt with auto attacks, passives, and aoes. Auto attacks are only part of the picture.

As for the specific skills you listed:

• Mesmer scepter 2 has 3 functional uses: a block, a clone, and confusion. The damaging part is only 33% of the skill, and is often times not used for the confusion at all.
• Mesmer torch 4 is similar because it also has 3 uses: to blind, to create stealth, and to generate aoe burning for 3 seconds. I would argue that the skill is used more defensively than offensively.
• Ranger sword 3 deals poison, which is used for healing reduction, not for damage. You use ranger 3 for the evade, not the damage.
• ranger dagger 4 same thing.
• Guardian torch 4 is horrible. There’s no such thing as a condition guardian. It’s a gimmick, nothing more.
• Elementalist fire dagger 2 is a very powerful burn. You are right with this.
• Elementalist earth dagger 2 is used for raw damage and destroying projectiles. Saying it is used for the bleeding is like saying churning earth is a well used condition based skill.

Elegie.3620:

I think that this statement is a bit too simplistic, because physical damage is instantly applied, while condition damage, to reach the same level of a physical critical hit, needs a few seconds, possibly more than 10 if you consider burst levels.

I’m not claiming that condition based specs do more damage than raw based specs. That would be outrageous, that’s all raw damage builds have. They sacrifice survivability and utility in order to get as much damage as possible. If conditions could deal more then there would be no point in running a raw damage build.

The point here is that while conditions don’t do more damage than raw damage, they do comparable amounts of damage for less effort while also having a lot of survivability (speaking in a stat sense).

Elegie.3620:

Well, if you avoid an attack (using the means you have proposed), you mitigate all of its effects – be it physical damage, condition damage, control or whatever. I don’t understand why you believe this is not applicable to condition damage.

I addressed this is my comments above. Namely, the methods I named are not effective for countering conditions because of how conditions are applied. With raw damage, you avoid crucial attacks such as bursts, stuns, and set ups, most of which have distinct animations and slow wind ups. With conditions, however, most are applied through auto attacks, aoes, and passives. There’s no risk in using these skills because if you miss them, you can just use it again immediately. You can’t expect someone to dodge every auto attack, predict and react to every passive proc, and avoid every aoe (that may not even be targeting you).

Elegie.3620:

On my condition warrior, besides the AA of the sword (because the AA of any other weapon does not work), I can:

• If I have a sword: use Flurry (F1), Impale (#4) or Riposte (#5),
• If I have a bow: Fan of Fire (#2), Pin Down (#5), previously nerfed because people were whining about it being too hard to dodge, Combustive Shot (F1),
• If I spec with Distracting Strikes, to inflict confusion on interrupts: Pommel Bash (Mace #3), Skull Crack (Mace F1), Shield Bash (Shield #4),
• If I spec to inflict burning on block, using the runes of the guardian: Counterblow (Mace #2), Riposte (Sword #5), Shield Stance (Shield #5).

Granted, some builds can optimize the damage of their Auto-Attack (like a shortbow ranger), but stating that the AA (or AoE – only one for the warrior example cited above) is the primary means of applying conditions looks a bit exaggerated to me.

Warrior is the oddball here because he deals conditions with the sword, a melee weapon. All other professions deal conditions using ranged weapons and passives. Go look at the other professions and tell me my claim is wrong.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

The thing about Necromancer’s autoattacks on Scepter is that, though possible, you do not want to just spam 1

I understand this. I was attempting to illustrate a point. That being said, a rabid necromancer with an earth sigil can stack up bleeds super quickly with auto attack that last a long time. It’s not the meta, but it’s in the game and used to be prominent until terrormancer and dhumfire came along.

And finally,

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Warriors had huge benefits from Cleansing Ire Berserker Stance and Signet of Stamina – this alone ensured me that I could collect a lart portion of the condition Damage to eventually be in the face of a Condition Class and indeed spike them down…

On my Elementalist, I, shockingly, always had Evasive Arcana, and depending on my spec, cleansing fire… With /F, I got condition cleanse in Earth, together with an invuln in the same attunement, granting me enough time to land most bursts – this is almost no differently than how I would face direct damaging classes

My Guardian was specced for shouts, so no comment there…

My Mesmer is unique in the sense that I do not come close to Condition Specs, rather, I’d stay on range, let my illusions widdle them down, and force them into a stunlock to burst them down whenever I see fit – I only use Null Field to cleanse conditions, though I mostly use this utility offensively to get rid of boons

This only exemplifies my point. Those professions are able to deal with condition damage only because they are specced specifically for them. When you don’t spec to deal with conditions, you NEED to keep your distance or else you’ll lose. If you use melee to deal your damage, you’re simply SoL.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

You want to argue that there’s nothing wrong with the picture here? Please, do go on.

And thus I did… Now I can see a huge problem you did state very well, and that is the “ease of acces” to random condition procs thanks to (overpowering) sigils, runes and traits… I will give you that, I am no fan of it

I might as well start off with this comment of yours. Because it seems you ultimately agree with my position, I won’t spend as much time nit picking your points.

First

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Looking back at the history of ToL and ESL games, I have seen little to no Hambows without a soldier amulet…

This is because of the format the warrior is in. Berserkers is for damage, soldiers is for sustain. In team fights, hambow is more efficient with soldiers due to all the aoe and prolonged sustain. When playing solo, or you’re in solo situations, zerker is superior. I was being a bit aggressive with how I worded my comment. Both are viable, it just depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.

As a side note, I just want to reiterate that my point is not that speccing to deal with raw damage is useless or not helpful, but rather that you don’t need to specifically spec a certain way to deal with raw damage due to the large amount of inherent counter-plays in the game to raw damage. This is why you can have complete glass cannon thieves, for instance, that can obliterate hambow warriors or burst specs reliably.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

You are pointing out the ways to nullify an attack against an attack over time that has been dealt… Condition Damage attacks indeed last after they are applied, it is how they work, but you can very well use a lot of the said methods for avoiding Direct Damage to counter Condition Damaging attacks – For example, a Necromancer’s Scepter applies Bleeding on autoattack with a range of 900, this means the attack itself can be outran, LOSed and so forth

I brought up this very issue in my comment.

Now, you may say that this list isn’t fair because you can avoid conditions being applied the same way you avoid raw damage. That is, through dodge rolls, evades, invulnerability, line of sight, out of range, etc. I would say it isn’t the same. It’s not the same because of HOW conditions are applied in this game…

With condition damage, you MUST avoid the auto attacks because that’s the primary method of applying conditions. Additionally, many conditions are applied through passives, meaning even if there is reliable means to counter-play condition based auto attacks, there isn’t for the passives, which is arguably where most of the condi damage comes from.

The core problem here is while you can use the same methods to avoid attacks that deal conditions as you can with raw damage, it is no where near as effective given how conditions are applied. Yes, you can use line of sight and stay out of range just as you could any other attack, but in an overwhelming majority of the time you are doing nothing to your opponent. The only situations where this is actually useful is if you need to peel off to live (meaning you were already losing and have conditions on you) or you are stalling (primarily because you have conditions on them).

Dodge rolling, evading, blocking, and invulnerability are not even 100% effective either. There are many passives and utilities that can break though these and apply conditions anyways, such as traps and marks if specced. This is why I didn’t list these options. And because of the nature of how conditions are applied, most cases you can’t deal with conditions until AFTER they are applied because there is no reasonable or reliable way to prevent them (such as them being caused by auto attacks, passives, random procs, or other means). The 4 methods I listed are the ONLY reliable way to deal with conditions in this game currently (not counting line of sight and out of range). Whereas there are at least 19 reliable methods for raw damage.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

This being said, you would not avoid say a Power Necromancer being up close and hitting you with his Dagger constantly?

I also addressed this in my comment.

With raw damage, you don’t avoid auto attacks, you avoid the big, damaging burst attacks and set ups. Most auto attacks don’t deal significant amount of damage, and if they do they are melee attacks, which are fairly easy to deal with.

Please don’t patronize me. I play every single class and their respective metas, have spent over 3000 hours in PvP and tpvp, and have played since the betas. I’m very well educated in the mechanics of the classes and the game.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

I stopped you there… Can you see your flaw in your arguement? I will tell you, people do spec into raw damage mitigation, otherwise Hambows and Axe Warriors would not be running Soldiers and Celestial respectively…
Same with Elementalists, most take Celestial as well – why? I mean, you don’t need to spec specifically to deal with raw damage right?

People don’t use celestial for the toughness or vitality. They use it so they can be a hybrid of raw and condition damage. This is why you only see axe/sword longbow warriors and d/d eles use celestial in PvP. And hambows use both zerker and soldiers. The more experienced ones use zerker because they don’t need the stat padding soldiers give.

You are arguing that some people spec specifically to deal with raw damage therefor you need to build to deal with raw damage. That is flawed. My argument is not that specing to deal with raw damage is useless, or that speccing a certain way makes it easier to deal with raw damage. I’m saying it’s NOT necessary in order to counter a raw spec, whereas it IS necessary if you want to counter a condi spec (unless you just plain outplay it, but that scenario is unrealistic and irreverent.) This is because there are significantly more ways to deal with raw damage than there is with condi, and many of these methods are inherent in the gameplay and are skill-based.

Let me illustrate.

Methods to deal with raw damage:

1. dodge roll *
2. evade *
3. block *
4. invulnerable *
5. blind *
6. line of sight *
7. move out of range *
8. blinks *
9. protection
10. regeneration
11. retaliation
12. aegis *
13. projectile reflection/destruction *
14. vigor
15. confusion
16. cripple (if melee)
17. chilled (if melee)
18. weakness
19. toughness
20. vitality
21. endure pain

From that list, the ones with an Astrix (*) will negate 100% of the raw damage that would have been inflicted.

Methods to deal with damaging conditions:

1. condition removal
2. regeneration
3. vitality
4. berserker’s stance

Now, you may say that this list isn’t fair because you can avoid conditions being applied the same way you avoid raw damage. That is, through dodge rolls, evades, invulnerability, line of sight, out of range, etc. I would say it isn’t the same. It’s not the same because of HOW conditions are applied in this game.

With raw damage, you don’t avoid auto attacks, you avoid the big, damaging burst attacks and set ups. Most auto attacks don’t deal significant amount of damage, and if they do they are melee attacks, which are fairly easy to deal with. With condition damage, you MUST avoid the auto attacks because that’s the primary method of applying conditions. Additionally, many conditions are applied through passives, meaning even if there is reliable means to counter-play condition based auto attacks, there isn’t for the passives, which is arguably where most of the condi damage comes from.

Tell me, how do you counter play a terrormancer’s fear chain when the first fear is triggered by you hitting the necro and proccing its nightmare runes? Condi clear or stun break. How do you deal with an engi’s incendiary powder, which procs on a critical hit? Condi clear. How do you deal with the burning from a ranger’s spirit? condi clear or kill the spirit (which gives the ranger a free opportunity to stack a lot more conditions on you). How about the burning from a guardian, which triggers every fifth hit he lands on you? Don’t get hit 5 times? How about a PU staff mesmer where every clone is dealing condis with auto attacks, and every time they die they give you conditions?

Tell me, how do you reliably deal with the conditions applied from auto attacks on necromancer’s scepter, engineer’s pistol, thief’s pistol, mesmer’s scepter and staff, elementalist’s scepter and dagger earth attunment, and (previously) a warrior’s rifle? Do you dodge every auto attack, even though they’re all ranged? Do you stay out of their range and line of sight them, even though you can’t damage them while doing this? Do you condi clear, despite them not using any cooldowns to apply those conditions and can immediately put them back up? No. You deal with them by killing them first.

THIS is what I mean when I say that condi specs don’t have a risk-reward mentality. When a great deal of their damage comes from auto attacks and passives, there is no reliable way to avoid the damage, meaning the only way to deal with it is to specifically build to deal with it. And even then many times it isn’t enough because condi specs have the ability to build tanky, as well as having 20 distinct ways to deal with raw damage.

You want to argue that there’s nothing wrong with the picture here? Please, do go on.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

It is incorrect to think we as players do not have to build into mitigating raw damage…

Ever thought of;

• Protection
• Vigor
• Invulnerability (Obsidian Flesh says hi)
• Projectile Reflect (Wake up buddies, this is raw damage)
• Regeneration
• Blinds
• Aegis

My point was that you don’t need to spec specifically to deal with raw damage because there are inherent methods in the game that can counter raw damage. Of course, you CAN spec to deal with raw damage better, such as the methods you gave above, but they are not necessary. The only thing that is needed is to avoid the big attacks.

With conditions, it is different. Yes, you can avoid some condition-applying attacks, but when the majority of damaging conditions are applied through auto attacks (most of which are projectiles and ranged), ground-targeted aoes that don’t have a travel time, and passives you can’t predict, the only RELIABLE means to deal with conditions is to specifically spec for them.

When playing without armor on, I last a lot longer fighting against a raw damage spec than I do against a condition damage spec. And that’s because there are a plethora of ways to deal with raw damage. You can mitigate the damage using the methods above, or you can completely negate the damage by avoiding the attack altogether, proactively and reactivity. Yes, thieves can do a lot of damage, but any thief will die when sneezed on, and that’s because they are built with risk-reward in mind. You can’t say the same for a condi spec.

Elegie.3620:

Snip

I feel your post only exemplifies the problem with conditions in this game. There are 2 primary issues with conditions:

1. Condition based builds only need a single attribute to define their damage, which is condition damage, whereas any other build requires at least 3: power, precision, and ferocity. Because of this, condition based specs can build themselves to be extremely tanky and still do an unreasonably high amount of damage, whereas if you want to build a similar damaging build around raw damage you need to spec for power and ferocity, and also precision if you don’t have reliable means to crit, leaving raw damage builds extremely squishy and easy to kill.
2. There is no inherent counter-play to conditions. To defend against conditions, you must specifically build yourself to deal with them, sacrificing options you otherwise would have. On the contrary, there IS inherent counter-play to raw and burst damage. No matter how you are built, if you avoid the attack, be it through dodge-rolling (which every player has), line of sight, blinds, blocks, evades, or other means, you mitigate 100% of the damage. You don’t NEED to build to your character to defend against raw damage because there are integrated methods in the gameplay that can counter raw damage. There is no such thing for conditions, and that’s what makes them strong.
   To add on to this, the primary method of applying damaging conditions is through auto attacks, aoe skills (many of which are instant and have no travel time), and passives that no one can control or predict. There’s no real consequence if a condition spec misses one of their condition-applying moves because most of their damage comes from auto attacks and aoes. There no risk-reward mentality in the spec, whereas raw damage specs are built upon a risk-reward mentality. It’s completely unbalanced and backwards from a design perspective.

fellyn.5083:

Loki.8793:

Veckna.9621:

Let’s consider the classic GS + Axe/Mace build

1. Working with Berserker’s Power in any build post-patch:
A: Use Healing Surge as your healing skill so you don’t have to kitten your crit chance by activating Signet of Fury to maintain Berserker’s Power’s bonus whenever you get out of combat.

2. Managing Fury uptime with the reduced fury production of Signet of Rage:
A: Arcing Slice, however disappointing still is quite the DPS increase when cast on a target below 50% health in comparison to your auto-attack. I advise casting it while Healing Surge is available so you can instantly replenish your adrenaline to benefit from the Berserker’s Power’s bonus.

… Why not just use offhand axe? Whirling axe got a buff of 17% more damage and has a 15 second cooldown, which will instantly fill up your entire adrenaline bar in a fight. Just start off combat with it. And duel strike will cover the fury up time no problem, especially if you hit more than 1 enemy. You’ll have more than before actually. You also won’t have to waste a heal and utility just to keep up adrenaline.

Because it’s still worse dps than axe auto attack.

But the purpose isn’t for dps, the purpose is to be efficient at gaining the fury we lost and start a fight with as much adrenaline as possible. The 4 vulnerability from mace 4 isn’t that huge of a lose, and mace 5 was situational at best and not effective in most situations. People who use offhand axe for the damage are using it wrong. (Of course, this is meant strictly in a PvE perspective. I would never touch offhand axe in PvP)

Mostly wardrobe updates and sadness.

The most notable updates are that minis and finishers are now in the wardrobe and you can access all of your minis at any time from any where and toggle them off and on. If a mini is toggled on, it is not considered a part of your look and will always automatically load into a map with you when you change maps and waypoint.

Finishers now have a preview option and were moved to the wardrobe. Outfits also have their own wardrobe tab.

There was a few profession balance changes, the most notable one of which is Warriors no longer keep adrenaline out of combat, so every time a warrior leaves combat he loses all of his accumulated adrenaline. Missing a burst skill will also remove all your adrenaline as if you landed it.

As with sadness, it mostly has to do with low level experience and leveling alts. A lot of the things about the game and combat were removed on new characters and you have to unlock them by leveling up. You no longer gain skills on weapons by using the weapon, for instance, you get them by level up. Starter zones no longer have bundles (environmental weapons), enemies don’t have conditions they can apply on you nor do they have skills you need to dodge, etc. If you want to know all about it, just look on the forums…

Personal story was split into chapters separated every 10 levels, and you can only access that chapter after you get to that level. So the first story step is level 10, and you can only start the first mission after you get to level 10.

Veckna.9621:

Let’s consider the classic GS + Axe/Mace build

1. Working with Berserker’s Power in any build post-patch:
A: Use Healing Surge as your healing skill so you don’t have to kitten your crit chance by activating Signet of Fury to maintain Berserker’s Power’s bonus whenever you get out of combat.

2. Managing Fury uptime with the reduced fury production of Signet of Rage:
A: Arcing Slice, however disappointing still is quite the DPS increase when cast on a target below 50% health in comparison to your auto-attack. I advise casting it while Healing Surge is available so you can instantly replenish your adrenaline to benefit from the Berserker’s Power’s bonus.

… Why not just use offhand axe? Whirling axe got a buff of 17% more damage and has a 15 second cooldown, which will instantly fill up your entire adrenaline bar in a fight. Just start off combat with it. And duel strike will cover the fury up time no problem, especially if you hit more than 1 enemy. You’ll have more than before actually. You also won’t have to waste a heal and utility just to keep up adrenaline.

1. Build Templates – The ability to save traits, utilities, weapons, and equipment as a template so a player can switch builds with the click of a button.
2. Observer Mode – An option to spectate and review high-end PvP matches after they have been played from a UI window, the same way GW1 did it.
3. Dyeable Weapons – The ability to apply dyes to weapons and not just armor, just like how GW1 did it.

Professions that have mobility, melee capabilities, and control/anti control potential for pvp?

1. dagger/pistol trickery thief (high damage, high mobility, high survivability, low defense)
2. sword/dagger trickery thief (medium damage, high mobility, high survivability, medium defense)
3. dagger/dagger celestial elementalist (medium damage, medium mobility, high survivability, medium defense)
4. sword/focus greatsword dps guardian (medium damage, medium mobility, medium survivability, high defense)
5. axe/shield greatsword burst warrior (high damage, high mobility, medium survivability, high defense)
6. longbow greatsword read the wind dps ranger (high damage, medium mobility, low survivability, medium defense)

Rated in the order of potency given the conditions you listed. I know you said you wanted to look for a different profession besides thief, but the truth is even after the patch thief will still be the fastest and hardest hitting profession in PvP. If you want a mobile melee fighter who can escape CC easily and shut down opponents, thief is the profession that best meets that description.

I think Vee Wee’s request to make a customizable 8 way wheel for communication is a bit over the top personally. The ability to draw and ping on your map is already useful and I make use of it a lot already. Though the ability to automatically communicate to your team that you’re going to use a specific skill or tactic is interesting, I don’t think it’s that much of a priority and there are better ways of implementing that (such as VOIPs or perhaps programmable macros that automatically write something in party chat when you activate them).

Personally, I like the minimalist approach Kito gave. We don’t need a huge amount of options and we don’t need them voice acted. I would personally prefer that they have icons on the map (like the ping and drawing), but are indicated by a specific sound effect to cue the party to look at the map. In fact, if you just added a unique sound to each comm-option, the party could know what is happening just by the sound it makes. A team could decide to use the comm-options entirely differently than intended and use the sound effects to cue their own intended messages, like sound A meaning you want to stab stomp, or sound B meaning you’re going to banner res, etc. There’s a lot of versatility and utility in just adding a unique sound effect to the different options, and I don’t think it would be that hard to implement. You guys did it in GW1 with pings just fine.

While I think you can have varying degrees of success with any profession in gw2 pvp, I think thief would be a good choice to start with. Thieves are good in team compositions because they are fantastic at 1v1 scenarios. They have they highest mobility in the game and are very efficient at applying significant pressure to points and high-priority targets.

If given enough time, a d/p trickery thief should be able to kill anything, and so the results you get are determined purely by your skill at the profession. While their efficiency at team fights is lower than other notable professions, such as engineer or warrior, their ability to harass capture points and effectively assassinate certain targets makes them a solid choice on any team.

Thieves are very squishy because of their low hp pool, but they are ironically very strong against power-based classes because of all their blinds, evades, teleports, stealths, and inherent mobility. They are fairly susceptible to condition pressure, however, and pretty much any form of heavy damage with be a huge setback for a thief if it lands. Thieves are not meant to take damage, so their survivability comes from their ability to avoid it altogether. Being able to do so consistently will not only make you a better thief, but a better player overall, and you will see the results carry over into other professions.

Other good choices are engineers and warriors. Both of these professions can bring heavy aoe pressure to team fights and can easily swing the tempo to your team’s favor. Engineers are extremely versatile while having access to a plethora of fields and blast finishers, CC, and condition pressure, but lack stun breaks and reliable forms of escape from focused pressure.

Warriors, on the other hand, tend to be inherently tanky with their heavy armor and healing signet, and they tend to focus on either heavy CC pressure, burst capabilities, or condition sustain. A hammer warrior can very quickly win a team fight by being able to chain stun a priority target or applying aoe stuns to the enemy team. Warriors tend to lose to focused pressure or prolonged sustain easily, however. Healing signet is strong because it has a very powerful passive heal, but that also means that warriors have no way to gain back a large amount of hp with their heal skill. Simply being able to out-damage the amount of healing their sig has will be enough to win against a warrior, and adding poison into the mix (33% healing reduction) will make it go faster.

First one, 6/10. Seems kind of generic with no real theme and the colors don’t match or compliment each other, especially the eyes.
Second one, 9/10. You lose a point because of the dagger and it not fitting the theme, but everything else looks good. The wings and hood make you stand out.

You want to play d/p in sPvP? Then just go meta.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVlsMpypdPx0J8PNBNBt9EGeE8OMfpMaFAA-TZBFwACOFAI3fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

If you can’t kill someone with this, then you’re playing it wrong.

kta.6502:

As a customer, I don’t purchase games that have the PC as a non-heroic person. It’s too much like real life. I live as a normal human in RL, so why would I want to RP as one?

I also enjoy hero stories. That’s why I buy RPGs (esp. JRpgs). GW2 was originally advertised as a hero story via official trailers. The devs even said that the focus would be on the PCs. When I discovered that Traherne stole my character’s storyline, I felt as if I had wasted $40 on the game. It was misleading advertisement. If I had known that my character was going to be a sidekick, I would of never purchased the game. Alot of the fault lies with Anet and NCSoft for not advertising the game correctly. BTW, in the United States, it is a violation of Federal and Washington State business law to advertise a product in one way and then give the customer a totally different product. That’s why fans like myself have spent time pointing out the game’s problems to both companies in hopes that they will give us what they promised in the first place.

Gw2 isn’t, and most likely never will be, a “hero story”. Anet, since gw1, has always told their stories revolving around certain iconic and important characters with the player’s character tagging along with them. More than anything, the players in the Guild Wars universe are observers to the story. And because of this, I can tell you Anet did not falsely advertise their game. They advertised an MMO that broke from the traditional mold MMOs seem to have and innovated on it, and they delivered exactly that.

In regards to the players making an impact on the world, this was in regards to dynamic events, not the personal story. It’s your fault for not understanding that, not Anet’s. Your attempt to criminalize Anet for not creating a story that fits your preferences is, in my opinion, childish and insulting.

I personally would prefer Anet to follow their traditional approach to story telling and have Destiny’s Edge 2.0 (i.e. Braham, Rox, Tiami, Kasmeer, and Majory) be the heroes and not literally everyone and their grandmother who play the game. Hero stories work well in single player games. They don’t make sense in MMOs. Seeing a story that doesn’t follow the “hero story” cliche every rpg has would be a nice fresh breath of air.

If you buy games for their stories, then that’s fine. I won’t judge you for that. But many people, including myself, buy games for the gameplay above all else. And for me, a better story in place of gameplay is a worse decision than better gameplay in place of story. Because, in the end, Gw2 is an MMO. And what matters most in an MMO is the gameplay, not the story. Sacrificing gameplay for a better story is the exact reason why SWTOR flopped.

If you want to give input to Anet, then it’s best to do so from an unbiased standpoint and point out real Pros and Cons, and not just say things that you’d prefer to see. Just a friendly tip.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Yes, I agree! If the PvP people can get PvE only stuff by playing PvP, we should be able to get PvP only stuff by playing PvE (and don’t mention the achievement chests, because the PvP players get those too).

So, when are those PvP only armours going to be available in PvE (by actually playing PvE, and not by getting lucky in a lottery)?

This may have won the “stupidest comment in the thread” award. PvE only skins for PvP? do you even know what they are doing? After April 15th, there will be no PvP or PvE armors/skins, just GW2 armors/skins. Meaning, any armor you have in PvE can now be used in PvP, and vice versa.

With the new reward system being added to PvP, there are armors that you can get only from doing that content. You want skins that you can only get in PvE and no where else? Too late, it’s already happened. EVERY living story Meta Reward that gives a skin is an example of this. Remember that helmet for killing scarlet, all the numerous backpieces? Ascended armor, Windcatcher, molten jetpack, desert rose, etc etc. PvP gets 1 thing, just 1, and people start complaining that they might have to try other content to get all the skins in the game. Trust me, there will be a lot more “PvE” only armors to come, significantly more than any PvP only armors to be added.

My god people, think before you post.

infantrydiv.1620:

Loki.8793:

PeepMeDown.5017:

While you are right PW are easier to kill than the previous S/D meta build, the damage and cc they do is greatly increased. They are still very prevalent in high ranked team queue games and the build just crushes necros, rangers, ele and mesmer. I’d like to know what u think is a more valid and critical thing tocomplain about is. I think the build that cuts 2 classes completely out of the meta is something to complain about.
Altho i do hate decap engies twice as much.

How about conditions, and how horribly designed and implemented they are? How the only way to reliably survive against a conditions is to distinctly build for them, whereas conversely the only thing you need to do to survive raw damage is to avoid it with skillful play, no matter how you’re built.

How about how nearly all condition specs rely on passives and ranged auto attacks to do their damage, meaning you can’t reliably avoid them with skillful play.

How about why there are so many passives in an action/reaction orientated game and how stupidly effective and powerful they are? How about why there are so many pets and AI in PvP?

How about nearly all condition-oriented specs also being primarily defensive stat-wise? How about Clensing ire, and how it works with long bow? How it only takes 20 trait points to have the best reliable condition removal in the game and have one of the most survivable specs with healing signet and longbow, defending against both condition and raw damage, and then can put all the other traits and stats into offensive lines and still be one of the hardest things to kill in the game.

How about the complete and utter lack of build diversity in the game?

Pistol whip does counter some builds, but it mostly counters the stupid passive/pettingzoo builds that are so prominent in the game right now. I don’t think that’s such a bad thing, to be honest. Unskillful builds that prioritize AI and passives like that need to be played less, and having a build that can more-easily deal with them is a good thing in my eyes.

Pistolwhip gameplay makes Warrior gameplay look complicated.

And dagger/pistol thieves don’t? Dagger/dagger? Pistol/dagger? Sword/dagger? That’s just how the thief is: the complication isn’t in the skill rotation or usage, it’s in the positioning, timing, and twitch-reaction to survive the 2 hits it takes to kill them.

For a warrior, the skill is in the skill rotation. The heavy armor, healing signet, and cleansing ire gives the warrior one of the most inherently defensive specs in the game. The problem isn’t that the warrior can have these things, the problem is that the warrior can achieve this with only 20 trait points.

PeepMeDown.5017:

While you are right PW are easier to kill than the previous S/D meta build, the damage and cc they do is greatly increased. They are still very prevalent in high ranked team queue games and the build just crushes necros, rangers, ele and mesmer. I’d like to know what u think is a more valid and critical thing tocomplain about is. I think the build that cuts 2 classes completely out of the meta is something to complain about.
Altho i do hate decap engies twice as much.

How about conditions, and how horribly designed and implemented they are? How the only way to reliably survive against a conditions is to distinctly build for them, whereas conversely the only thing you need to do to survive raw damage is to avoid it with skillful play, no matter how you’re built.

How about how nearly all condition specs rely on passives and ranged auto attacks to do their damage, meaning you can’t reliably avoid them with skillful play.

How about why there are so many passives in an action/reaction orientated game and how stupidly effective and powerful they are? How about why there are so many pets and AI in PvP?

How about nearly all condition-oriented specs also being primarily defensive stat-wise? How about Clensing ire, and how it works with long bow? How it only takes 20 trait points to have the best reliable condition removal in the game and have one of the most survivable specs with healing signet and longbow, defending against both condition and raw damage, and then can put all the other traits and stats into offensive lines and still be one of the hardest things to kill in the game.

How about the complete and utter lack of build diversity in the game?

Pistol whip does counter some builds, but it mostly counters the stupid passive/pettingzoo builds that are so prominent in the game right now. I don’t think that’s such a bad thing, to be honest. Unskillful builds that prioritize AI and passives like that need to be played less, and having a build that can more-easily deal with them is a good thing in my eyes.

PeepMeDown.5017:

Loki.8793:

You’re actually complaining about pistol whip? Of all things that are wrong with balance in this game, pistol whip? Any amount of validity I may have thought your opinions had has now been entirely lost.

.

you must not play much pvp as pistol whip thieves are everywhere.

You must not play PvP much as Pistol whip thieves are the easiest type of thieves to kill. Pistol whip was useless until recently. Now it got fixed. There are many more valid and critical things to complain about balance in this game than pistol whip.

Rickster.8752:

Anet: None of your new traits, sigils and runes matter for kitten. You can theory craft some new epic necro/ele/whatever build but it won’t matter for anything. You will have an awesome coherent build and then you go to play it and you just get pistol whipped to death over and over by an unhittable thief. What ruins this game isn’t what is not there. It is what is here. Addition by subtraction is something you people should be aware of. There is no point in this patch if we just get pistol whipped over and over still, or if we can’t even fight a 4v4 because of a decap engi on our close all game like a braindead idiot

This patch is going to be the worst ever produced. And I was excited about it. None of it matter anymore. New map? Who cares. I will just get pistol whipped 7 times in 10 seconds on that map too. So who gives a kitten.

You’re actually complaining about pistol whip? Of all things that are wrong with balance in this game, pistol whip? Any amount of validity I may have thought your opinions had has now been entirely lost.

Back on track, yeah, I’m also feeling very underwhelmed from today’s blog posts. They gave us nothing new, just rephrased things we’ve known for a month. I understand what they showed us is a preview, but the last time we got a balance preview it ended up being 80% of the entire balance patch.

I agree with Anet that balance needs to be done in iteration, but they seemed to have missed the memo that iteration only works when done in consistent short intervals. Their balance philosophy would work if they were released every month, not every 4 months.

You’re crazy Marvin.

Cush.4063:

I’m talking about the feature patch which if you watched the twitch stream for gw2 you’d see that it is releasing at the beginning-mid April.

Not that I’m arguing with this, but which twitch stream is this? There are many that Anet puts out.

There is no reason not to reinstall GW2 as there is no subscription for doing so. One of the benefits of the game is being able to take breaks and come back whenever you feel like, be it a few days or a few years later. However, if you’re asking whether you should become heavily invested in the game or not, then you should wait a month or so until anet decide to release what plans they have for the game and what they want to expand during their second season of the living story.

I won’t spoil anything for you (in case you care), but the ending revelation of this last update infers that during the next batch of living story updates we will see new permanent open-world areas and content. If you want to be spoiled, then there should be plenty of forum topics floating around.

As to what has been added since the Karka event, most updates have been either bug fixes or temporary content for the living story (I suspect this is because they were testing the model and didn’t won’t to fully commit themselves to it yet, but we will see). However, a few notable things have been added since then.

1. An Achievement reward system – Every 500 achievement points you get will net you a chest which will have some notable rewards in them. You will get some convenience items from the gem store, some gold, some account-wide permanent buffs, such as increased exp from killing monsters, increased gold from monsters, increased karma gain from events, and increased magic find. every 1000 AP (Achievment points), you will get a choice of a unique weapon skin that you can obtain as many as you like at any time. Every 3000 you will get a choice of a unique armor skin that has the same accessibility as the weapons. Speaking of which…
2. Magic find has been revamped. There are now no longer any armor pieces that give magic find, but by salvaging blue and green rarity items you will get essence of luck, which you can consume to increase your account-wide magic find.
3. There is now an account-wide wallet, which will hold all of your currencies in the game.
4. There is a “looking-for-group” tool implemented into the friends list. Opening it up will allow you to select different areas of the game you’d like to advertise for (champion farming, dungeons, story-instances, etc), and then you can either join a current group or wait for someone to join yours. For dungeons, groups typically fill up within a few seconds to a minute. It’s really, really quick.
5. Fractals of the mists have been updated, as has agony resistance to a degree. After level 30, there will be instabilities that will plague you throughout the entire run. What instability you get depends on what level you are on. Additionally, 2 new dungeons have been added as well as 2 new bosses. Rewards have also gotten better (though, regular dungeons are better if you want rewards).
6. A new WvWvW map has been added, named edge of the mists. It was designed as a waiting room where you could play WvWvW in while you wait to exit your queue to actual WvWvW, but you can enter them at any time. They are 3 hour matches on a single, borderlands-sized map where you fight 2 other enemies. Teams are decided based on what color your WvWvW pairs are for the week, and your server will be automatically paired with other servers who are the same color. Your enemies also follow the same pattern, so you are effectively fighting people from 2/3 of the regional servers and fighting alongside the other 1/3. You may also enter these matches at any time, and they act as overflows that you can join your friends on.
7. PvP matches now reward gold.
8. They are removing the gain of PvP glory on the 18th of this month, so after you get in you may want to spend it on the new PvP glory vender they added near the armor merchant. They are removing glory to exchange it with a different reward system which will come later. Eventually, Gold will be the the universal currency for PvE and PvP.

With that, you are now informed with what has been added to GW2 since you left. I may have missed a thing or two, but you get the picture.

-Cheers!

I find it interesting that people seem to claim that GW2 has unsuccessful PvE content because it lacks the holy trinity, when in fact the overall problem is the encounters in the content and not the lack of the trinity.

People like to reference the holy trinity because that is what they are used to, but that is not the only way to make a fun and successful game. For instance, GW1 did not have a trinity. There are no such thing as tanks in GW1, as there is no hate mechanic to grab the attention of mobs. The only thing GW2 did differently from GW1, role wise, was take out the healer and give everyone the ability to survive without one.

In fact, in GW2, there actually CAN be a trinity without restructuring the entire combat system, all they need to do is redesign the encounters in group-oriented play. Because of the active-combat in GW2, things such as tanks and healers don’t exist and all people tend to do is DPS. We can make use of this fact and design a DPS trinity where people can fulfill different roles that can make significant impact in the dungeon.

If encounters were designed where there were different types of monsters who were weak to different types of damage, then a trinity could emerge. If we had monsters that had low amounts of armor, but high amounts of HP, then they would be weak to raw damage and strong to conditions, meaning you want to have raw DPS in your group. If there were monsters that had low HP but very high amounts of armor, then they would be weak to conditions but strong to raw DPS. If there were monsters that had high amounts of HP and high amounts of armor, but could have moments of vulnerability when they were CC’d, then that would encourage control specs and skills.

From adding those 3 types of enemies to encounters, a trinity of raw DPS, condition, and Control would emerge. The group could then add utilities for support where needed, such as blinds, reflects, condition removal, and buffs, but they wouldn’t be necessary. If mechanics were added to encounters that promoted the idea of splitting the group around the battle-field and prioritized movement, then we wouldn’t see people scrunch-together every encounter.

There ARE ways Anet can make PvE a more fulfilling experience with the mechanics they already have. It’s just a matter of when they get to it, if ever.

Oh my god people, it’s not the big of a deal. Just go to another city for the 2 weeks if you want to craft.

As far as I understand, the Vigil keep is only meant to be a temporary hub, so it’s not like this is a permanent change. Every other city has crafting stations, as well as WvWvW. Many other zones also have convenient crafting, such as Ebonhawk, Queensdale, and Cealdon forest. It’s not like LA was well know for having convenient crafting stations. The Grove and Rata Sum were always superior places to craft.

Why do people always try to find the smallest and most irrelevant thing to complain about?

Karolis.4261:

You can be with over half of your health and get bursted to less then 25 % in a blink of an eye and it will most likelly happen mid CnD cast or when attacking something. That will activate LR and will cause revealed.
LR has internal cooldown that has no indication in your UI, means you cant track it in longer fights.
Running idle with 30 % hp hoping that it will activate instead of stealthing yourself is same as running around with bullzeye on your head. You can easilly get one shoted in that situation.
Any ability that you can’t control yourself is bad. LR is worse, since it doesn’t work with revealed mechanics.
So no its not L2P issue.

You say any ability that you can’t control is bad, but ANET seems to hold a different philosophy, as all the powerful builds right now incorporate some level of passives into them, which is exactly why condition classes and warriors are so broken right now. Though I agree, I prefer skills and aspects that promote skillful and active play rather than passive. However, not all passives are bad. Traits like LR activate under certain conditions, and observant and skilled players can make use of those conditions on a consistent basis. While these traits are passive, there is also a skillful dynamic associated with them that can be taken advantage of.

It’s not so much as running around with low HP hoping to be hit for just the right amount to trigger LR as it is just being aware that it will trigger the next time you are hit, so you should play a bit more defensively rather than offensively. This trait works well against conditions, which happens to be 80% of the current meta right now. And against physical damage classes like warriors, all the attacks that would do that significant amount of damage is telegraphed. There aren’t that many situations where you are fighting someone and they can then do over 60% of your hp with no tell of it. The only profession that would be possible of that is backstab thieves. But the only time that thief can do that kind of damage with no warning is in stealth, so you likely won’t be attacking to ruin LR when your HP does fall below 25%.

Interceptor.2653:

Loki.8793:

I’m sorry, this is a L2P issue. Last refuge isn’t broken, it does exactly what it was intended to do.

It’s not up to you. Devs have stated that they don’t like the way that it can occasionally punish players unintentionally.

Why should players who understand how the trait works and use it to their advantage be punished because other players don’t want to take the time to look at their HP bar during the fight?

If the developers want to change the trait, then fine, they will eventually. However, the only reason players feel like they get punished by the trait is because they enter a fight without even considering that it may go off. They completely forget that it’s there. That’s not ANET’s fault, that’s the players’.

It’s the same thing as saying retaliation is broken because I occasionally kill myself by hitting too hard when my HP was low, and I didn’t notice my opponent had retaliation up. It’s clear as day when retaliation is up, and it’s clear as day when your HP is around 3k. Just because people don’t notice it doesn’t mean it’s bad design.

I’m sorry, this is a L2P issue. Last refuge isn’t broken, it does exactly what it was intended to do. The first time you hit 25% hp in a fight, you will cast an automatic blinding powder. If it goes off when you didn’t expect then you clearly are not paying attention to the fight or your HP, which is why it surprises you.

If you’re going full zerker, then you’re going to have around roughly 11-12k HP. That means when you’re hit below 3k HP the trait is going to go off. If you keep track of your HP, like you should, this trait can help you a lot as it gives you a free stealth and blind while also doubling as a blast finisher. It’s a free utility that you can plan around in a fight. This trait has saved my kitten more times than I can count.