Guild Wars 2

Nikkle.4013:

“The requested topic does not exist.”
Also since this is a gw1 tourny i expect this to be removed/moved

Apparently GW2.com can’t handle the “&” sign in weblinks lol.

http://teamquitter.com/viewforum.php?f=7

This is taken from the Team Quitter website:

Zuranthium

Since Guild Wars 1 is currently not receiving any sponsorship, I’ve decided to sponsor it myself!

Starting in August, and each month afterward, the team that wins the mAT will receive $1,000.

To qualify for this reward, teams MUST be active in the game for the entire 3-4 week period leading up to each mAT (there is a spacing of 4-5 weeks between each mAT, so this gives people a week after each mAT to reform if they want to). Teams need to be active in both daily AT’s AND in Ladder play. Since I am able to log into to this game basically all day, it will be easy for me to monitor Ladder activity.

I will also monitor individual players to make sure they are actively playing the game. If you have a guild member who only logs on a few times a month, they will NOT receive the mAT prize money if your guild wins.

There will also be prizes for lower ranked teams!! If your team plays actively throughout the month and plays ALL of the swiss rounds of the mAT, but is not able to make the top 16, each member will receive Zaishen Keys from me. I will have to figure out exactly how many keys each player will receive, but it will be a sizable amount. If your guild is not able to play the mAT for some reason, but you played actively throughout the month, I will still give you Zaishen Keys.

Also, for these prizes to happen, the mAT must have at least 32 REAL guilds playing. The whole point of this project is to bring activity back to the game. If there isn’t a sufficient amount of activity happening, then I’m not giving out prizes.

PLEASE SHARE THIS INFORMATION ON ALL OTHER GUILD WARS WEBSITES AND GAMING FORUMS.

Special Rules:

• Core members of Zuranthium’s guild will receive a higher prize amount if the guild wins the mAT. These people will also receive a monthly salary even if the guild does not win the mAT. (Call this “unfair” if you want but I’m not going to hand out my own money to this community if I’m not enjoying the game. For me to enjoy the game, I require a guild that is dedicated and able to play at a high skill level)

• If Happy Feet’s guild wins the mAT, those players will receive their prize money from Happy Feet. He loves to talk about how much money he has, so he can pay for their winnings.

http://teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32462

People who still play get so defensive when it gets pointed out that the game has decreased in activity.

ANet has the numbers. Correct.

If they were numbers to be proud of, why aren’t they flaunting them?

“Guild Wars 2 population continues to grow every day!”
“Record number of new accounts bought this month!”

Siphaed.9235:

…. It is fun. Deal with it.

That right there is the primary problem with some major titles on the market. Guild Wars 2 and Diablo 3 are just a few major ones that stand out.

The devs think they know what their community likes – And even when they don’t (which is more often than they’d like to admit) – They try to tell you what you should like.

That is one of the MANY reasons this game is not what it should have been. One of the many reasons the playerbase has shrunk so quickly.

It is a gamer’s market right now, and the developers who think otherwise should brace for a rude awakening.

We as gamers are in a position to be convinced to come and play their games (We have options, why should I pick your game?) – It isn’t and shouldn’t be the other way around – We should not be the ones trying to make it fun.

“Deal with it”

Player 1: “Why do you hate playing GW2 so much?”
Player 2: “The game is rather stale and boring, the PvP does not take a large amount of skill, the number of build variations is extremely limited, and I fall asleep nearly everytime I try and PvE.”
Player 1: “You should try playing with friends and being social, I find that playing this game with friends makes the game enjoyable.”
Player 2: “Then shouldn’t I play a game that is actually enjoyable AND have friends who play that game with me?”
Player 1: “kitten… You’re right.”

The game that failed the majority of expectations is slowly but surely dying?

What is this!?

maddoctor.2738:

Motoko.2875:

darkace.8925:

According to who? You? I, for one, wouldn’t play Guild Wars 2 if it were like its predecessor. What you call a mistake, I call a sound decision. And guess what? My opinion on the subject carries as much authority as yours.

Congratulations, you are part of the minority who was not disappointed in the false sequel.

Source? Where do you get your numbers to come to the conclusion of what the majority and the minority thinks.

You should be more aware of your surroundings.

Yargesh.4965:

Motoko.2875:

Yargesh.4965:

Motoko.2875:

They plan on milking the name of Guild Wars for all its worth until the playerbase shrinks beyond profitability. Waiting for ANet to die hard so they can learn from their mistakes the hard way.

Hate to tell you but the old player base of Guild wars is probably not a majority of players of this game. I could be wrong. Even so I still would not expect this team to only look back, never try to create.

You’re right it isn’t. As a game developer I would consider that a major flaw in a product I create. Your statement only supports mine.

The thing is you are not the game developer.

The thing is you have yet to provide anything valuable to retort against what I have said.

Living Story and constant content does not fix the core problems of this game and why so many people have left and many more continue to leave.

darkace.8925:

According to who? You? I, for one, wouldn’t play Guild Wars 2 if it were like its predecessor. What you call a mistake, I call a sound decision. And guess what? My opinion on the subject carries as much authority as yours.

Congratulations, you are part of the minority who was not disappointed in the false sequel.

The fact you dislike GW1 and enjoy GW2 is a core problem in the creation of this game.

What I call a mistake, you call a mistake that accidently benefited you.

Guess what? You’re still in the minority.

Yargesh.4965:

Motoko.2875:

They plan on milking the name of Guild Wars for all its worth until the playerbase shrinks beyond profitability. Waiting for ANet to die hard so they can learn from their mistakes the hard way.

Hate to tell you but the old player base of Guild wars is probably not a majority of players of this game. I could be wrong. Even so I still would not expect this team to only look back, never try to create.

You’re right it isn’t. As a game developer I would consider that a major flaw in a product I create. Your statement only supports mine.

I am not sure why a large off-topic discussion is warranted here…

There aren’t enough things that people enjoyed in GW1 placed in GW2 (properly or at all).
ANet claimed the opposite in their manifesto than what has been implemented.
GW2 is not WoW. But it is nothing like the predecessor (which it should be). The latter of the two statements is what matters. I don’t care what game GW2 is similar to, the point is it isn’t relatively similar to the game it should be similar to.

ANet won’t fix the above, nor will they admit that they let the fans down or admit that they made a huge mistake.

TL:DR – Waiting for the next GW1 similar MMO, MMORPG, and CORPG to fill the void in the market.

This means I get a completely new map I can go be bored on?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Then zzz away, I’m sorry you can’t make friends to play with. Have fun with your super awesome real life, when I’m pretty sure I’m younger and making more cash than you. Thankfully you aren’t known in real life because you seem like kitten that no one would like : )

I remember when I was 14. I made posts like you do.

Just make sure you behave, I’d hate for mommy and daddy to stop giving you an allowance and take all that “cash” away from you.

I hit several nerves with you. It is nice to know you can’t have a solid conversation without having to throw in insults and jabs – I guess that is a good representation of the “top” competitive teams left in this game.

Try to not make it so easy to pick you apart next time

Bas.7406:

haha, I seriously love your self-inflated opinions haha. I know many of the gamers who quit for a variety of reasons, and I still keep in contact with many of them.

Why don’t you show us some of your epic background that makes you an expert on the subject of all things esports? In fact, I would love to see the level of gameplay that makes you the expert for the majority that thinks GW2 is such a failed product.

Everyone knows WoW’s pvp is brutal, and yet millions play the game, i would say they have not failed, and GW2 is infinitely better than that game. Your perspective on what is and isn’t exciting is based on your own misperception as to what is valid. Do you own a company that sponsor and promotes Esports and therefore makes your opinion something of an educated opinion? Or are you simply a self-inflated streamer who somehow think he knows everything about every game? Do you have a highly popular and educated show that people genuinely watch outside of GW2 that makes you an educated opinion?

The irony in your response is so glaring I am almost disappointed that you don’t see it yourself. When you meet all of the qualifications of what you just described – We can proceed with your silly input.

Bas.7406:

Or are yousimply a failed bitter player who has no desire to let go of anything that he either wasn’t very good at (Most likely) or is upset that no one listened to what he feels would make this game better? I am sure that you believe you speak for the majority, and it maybe that currently Guild Wars 2 is not looked on favorably, but that doesn’t change what we are doing.

Failed bitter player? Haha. You should consider writing some fiction novels. The junk you come up with is really out there. I am sure there are some crazies out there that might be interested in what you are making up in your head to try and validate situations.

Bas.7406:

We are still a growing burgeoning community that has decided to take the slow measured approach. Not one person is saying this game right now is ready to be on lol, starcraft, or CoD level. We haven’t even said we are ready for wow levels. What we are saying is the game is better than you think, the players are better than you, and we are building a foundation so that sometime in the future we can make a step into the esports realm. Is there a future here? Yes, because if Dota can be successful, than any game can be successful.

Plus if people like you still come on and troll boards to get yourself heard than the game is doing something right.

You say the game is better, but yet, the game’s predecessor still has more active PvP and more enjoyable PvP than GW2.
You say the players are better than me, but I don’t play this game, and no one highly skilled plays this game. And the players you consider “skilled” have no one competitive to measure that “skill” against.

It isn’t our job to build that foundation. It is Anet’s job to do that. If you think the current efforts we have seen are indication that a future is here, you are preparing yourself for a major let down. (sadly years after anyone remotely intelligent was let down)

I wouldn’t have to partake in threads like this if the game did anything right.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Pretty sure the GW2Esports Guild outnumbers all the frequent posters who roam gw2 forums for whatever reasons to post very general information that does nothing for the pvp community. Alright, I get it, you guys hate GW2 PvP. Alright, you guys have bunches of friends who quit. Alright, you guys don’t want anyone who plays to have hope. Alright, you want Anet to magically change over night. Alright, you may want us to all quit and just say everything sucks. Alright, you want us to join the bandwagon of you nah-sayers. Alright, you know everything. All hail Motoko for granting us with his superb prescence because he’s bored at work.

I do what I can.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

What is your purpose? I have no idea what in kitten’s name anyone’s goal is to shut people down for trying. Just because we make an effort to make something, doesn’t mean Anet is going to be like “Hey, we don’t need to spend time on PvP anymore”. How about you stop being a nobody posting on forums and actually write a good post about changing something? How about you go get a real life and make friends to be happy with than be really sour on forums that you don’t really care too much about.

A nobody? Haha. I have no intention being anything like you bud. The only thing “zzz” means to me is it is the only thing I type on this game before logging off. God forbid someone such as myself can excel at a video game hobby AND have a successful real life.

Hard to fathom right? And guess what? Real life has more than 10 teams to compete against. :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Let’s just make you the ArenaNet President because obviously you know how the STOG is. Kitten that, if you could even score 100 points against any of the top teams, I’ll give you a pat on the back. Trash like you should just get your internet freedom removed because you abuse your anonymity to say spiteful things just because they don’t go your way.

Really. You are asking me to score 100 points against a top team? Do you even understand the game you play? Where in any part of GW2 PvP does that request make sense? Who are my other 4 teammates? How are the 100 points I score calculated? Can you ensure that I will actually enjoy this god awful game while I play? And please invent an incentive for me to even learn this game to beat… what… 10 teams? I feel so sad for you if that is your motivation. I really wish my life was as boring and lackluster as yours that beating 10 teams in a dead PvP portion of a game gave me excitement.

Thankfully you aren’t in charge. You’d just silence anyone who disagreed with your clueless input.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

1. You have no depth! Jk, but seriously, it has more depth than you realize, you just haven’t found it yet.
2. I think his Folly’s notion of high level is pretty accurate. It doesn’t matter how big or small, the gap between great players and beginner players is huge and that says something.
3. You must be joking right? When did team zZz recruit you?
4. We aren’t squirming, we just don’t appreciate unconstructive feedback. I am impressed at your tenacity to come and post something pointless just for the sake of posting. Hope you find a new hobby.

1. Can not find something that does not exist. If it does exist, it is too boring to care to learn about its existence.
3. LOL. zZz is considered high level PvP? High level PvP/Competition does not exist in this game. Get that out of your head. Anyone truly competitive and aware of eSports ditched this game a long time ago.
4. It isn’t unconstructive – It disagrees with your opinion – And that is what makes you squirm and post your little responses. It has been less than a year and GW2 PvP is already on life support. Hope you find a new pretend eSport.

Bas.7406:

3. Comments like this remind me of high schoolers who claim to be involved or tested every woman on the market. Great players and guys with a wealth of high level pvp rarely come on the forums to complain at the level you do. Most are too busy doing things.

I’m bored at work. So no, not really busy.

Bas.7406:

4. I am glad you represent the majority because it’s amazing the sheer volume of people who agree with you. Oh wait, it’s the 3 guys who continuously post because the game isn’t the way you like it. Look go back to whatever game you came from since you hate GW2 so much, and leave the game to those who do enjoy it.

Conquest is just as enjoyable to watch and is more related to MMO’s than the standard Moba format, and infinitely more enjoyable to watch than anything Halo or COD puts out.

Being the loudest guys who posts the most angry rants does not make you in the Majority. I would recommend branching your circle of majority to include people not in your guild or rolodex, of course than you might be wrong, and that might cause your whole world to come crashing down. It’s okay though when you recover from the shock we will be here to help you.

Yes, because every person who agrees (aka the majority) with the posts of those “3 people” still posts on a game that they quit playing while ultimately being let down long ago. Instead of being bitter and upset that you represent the minority, how about accepting our input and moving on with your life? There are plenty of people who accept the fact that this game has miserably failed. There are few of us who visit this forum and post that side of the argument. Can you blame the others who don’t? Look at the result of it so far.

I realize I struck a nerve with you. I highly suggest you take time to branch out and do some research on opinions and general information on GW2. Sitting on GW2 and playing with the other 18 active players isn’t really helping you a whole lot in that regard. When you are done kicking and screaming, let me know, there are plenty of people who are familiar with good games who can help you out.

Follidus.8027:

Motoko.2875:

Shoutcasting depth on a boring and poorly made PvP game.

Good idea!

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

sorry, there is no depth in this game. it’s capture points. there will be depth if GvG is implemented. Until then, no.

Calling a game boring with no depth without ever playing it at a high level.

Good idea!

1. This game is boring with no depth.
2. There is no high level PvP in this game. Your notion of “high level” is relative. The PvP community is very small in GW2 – High level does not exist.
3. I’ve played at a higher level in PvP than you can fathom.
4. Seeing the small PvP community squirm when the majority opinion gets pointed out is a very entertaining thing to watch.

Shoutcasting depth on a boring and poorly made PvP game.

Good idea!

Assyrian.4827:

this post is becoming history and still no answer from Anet

That is because the chances of ANET coming in here and admitting “hey we kittened up” are non-existent.

On top of that the chances of ANET coming in here and saying “hey we plan on doing _ and ______ and _ to fix it” is silly.

Well said, Alpha.

alcopaul.2156:

Motoko.2875:

alcopaul.2156:

IDK why people are countering Follidus or even have the balls to try to negate his opinion. He’s spot on. Moreover, he’s the top 3 in the NA ladder. He knows what he’s talking about.

Being good at a dead game with no competition does not validate one’s opinion.

a dead game when the rank 153 of a ladder has 1000 rating.

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/

391st -Looking For Freedom [free] Europe 204 2932 3195

capped at 391. where’s the competition, Motoko?

i could log on guild wars 1 and get 7 RAers and lose one GvG and you’ll see Your Math Teacher[MATH] in the ladder again at rank 160s. But it’s hard to get 7 RAers, because the game is dead, obviously. But i might do it, ill get PvErs in kamadan instead.

EDIT: Oh henchies that is. So 3 players more!

Changing the subject does not help your case. We are not arguing that GW1 PvP is the most active thing on this planet.

I am merely pointing out that GW2 PvP is void of any real competition and is just as dead if not more dead than GW1 PvP.

alcopaul.2156:

IDK why people are countering Follidus or even have the balls to try to negate his opinion. He’s spot on. Moreover, he’s the top 3 in the NA ladder. He knows what he’s talking about.

Being good at a dead game with no competition does not validate one’s opinion.

papaganookitten908:

Love it when the GW1 fanboys come out to rant. How stupid of Anet to focus on the newer version of a game… rofl

What do you think people would say to Anet if they stopped all dev on GW2, their flagship game and went back to refocus on GW1? They’d get laughed out of the industry. Nobody goes backwards, that’s stupid.

Yes, how stupid of ANET to focus on a playstyle that made the franchise famous and successful.

Nobody goes backwards? HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

You realize that is exactly what Guild Wars 2 PvP is right?

XII.9401:

Motoko.2875:

Remember how it was when you left?

Imagine that but some skill balancing and an even more dead player base.

6 months is very optimistic lol.

What skill balancing? Mesmers are still OP since launch, guardians are as bunky as ever and warriors are broken.

I had to find something to put in that sentence. lol.

Follidus.8027:

Put it in this perspective: If I came into GW1 and said the game was terrible with no skill involved while never being anywhere near the top, how many of you would take me seriously? I could list out a million things that I think are improvements, but who would really listen? It’s the same situation here, in reverse.

Here is the problem with your argument:

GW1 had ways to show success. You had TONS of competition. You had ladders to get paired randomly with opponents and you had tournaments to play in and prepare matches against a known opponent.

You can look at players that were successful at high-end GW1 PvP (for the most part) and take them seriously. (I am included in this group whether you like it or not)

In GW2 there is no way to measure that success. A ladder? 3rd party tournaments? TP? MiM? Against what competition? A mass exodus of players and competition occurred long ago. Within months of the game’s release. These players aren’t fighting the best that could be and they aren’t the best that has been.

You have minority of players that are still here because they enjoy the FPS style of play. Those same players keep telling the original fanbase to kitten off. And then you have the majority of players who aren’t happy, but are more than happy to offer suggestions that would help ANET keep afloat it’s sinking ship.

So the situation isn’t reverse at all.
You have a bunch of players with an equal amount of lack of credibility and a lot of bias. You have a company that doesn’t even know what it wants – let alone makes it seem like they don’t want to deal with it anymore.

The difference is the original fanbase was part of something special and something that was incredible. The small player base that exists now never experienced that.

If Guild Wars 1 wasn’t for you, Guild Wars 2 shouldn’t have been. Sadly that isn’t the case.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Hall_of_Heroes_

Just as in GW1 PvP, the maps to get to The Hall Of Heroes (as well as The Hall Of Heroes itself) require your build to be diverse. Your build must be able to kill, split for cap points, be tanky enough to hold the “hill”, and run relics+stay alive/snare the other team/kill the other team before they out cap you.

This is done to ensure a build would not focus on one style of play – Such as King of the Hill where a team would be made up of entirely heals and defensive mechanisms.

But then again, GW2 PvP is flawed to its core and nothing really suits the game unless it is “kill kill kill” or “bunker bunker bunker”.

hauskamies.9683:

Motoko.2875:

hauskamies.9683:

Motoko.2875:

JohnnyZero.5619:

There is fun to be had in sPvP.

The most fun I have in sPvP is pressing the little “x” at the top right since I know it means I’ll actually be loading up a fun game.

That fun game must be called “whining in the forums” because that’s exactly where you seem to spend all your time

I’m not sure what language you read the game title in, but in my language we call that “Guild Wars 2”.

You call the forums Guild Wars 2? No wonder you have so much confusion going on.

Yes, these are the Guild Wars 2 forums. That is what ANET and everyone else refers to them as.

hauskamies.9683:

Motoko.2875:

JohnnyZero.5619:

There is fun to be had in sPvP.

The most fun I have in sPvP is pressing the little “x” at the top right since I know it means I’ll actually be loading up a fun game.

That fun game must be called “whining in the forums” because that’s exactly where you seem to spend all your time

I’m not sure what language you read the game title in, but in my language we call that “Guild Wars 2”.

JohnnyZero.5619:

There is fun to be had in sPvP.

The most fun I have in sPvP is pressing the little “x” at the top right since I know it means I’ll actually be loading up a fun game.

Follidus.8027:

So for all of you that keep bashing this game saying it’s kitten, it’s not going anywhere, why don’t you actually help out the scene by making a team and showing everyone what great skill and teamplay you can bring with your experience in other games, be it WoW, GW1, counter-strike, or whatever. If you don’t believe high-level teamplay/coordination can exist in this game, then please actually read my post and you will understand why you don’t see it as much as you should.

Thanks.

Because the PvP is boring and stale? Just because I excel in other games does not mean I have any intention of punishing myself with a boring game to prove to a diminishing player base that I or a team I am with has a high level of skill.

I really enjoyed your post Muramasa. I was starting to get pumped from the way you describe watching pros making incredible plays and the reasoning/emotions behind it.

I’ll buy you a drink if we ever meet lol.

nakoda.4213:

Motoko.2875:

nakoda.4213:

no, because alcopaul is one of the most intelligent people in this thread.

Troll?

it always amuses me that the first defense people have to someone with a differing opinion than their own on an online forum is to call the “offender” a troll.

it shows how small minded you are.

P.S. asking people if they bother reading another person’s posts is trolling, technically.

It isn’t a defense. I really was under the assumption that you were trolling. It has already been agreed that paul’s input is really – Well it doesn’t contribute to the conversation. He doesn’t understand what we are talking about – and his argument points are essentially invalid for the majority of this conversation.

When another individual shows up and says “hey this input is brilliant and i agree!” – When it has already been decided that the said input is in fact not brilliant and lackluster – It leaves the question wondering if you were serious or not.

Aza.2105:

But you are doing the exact same thing that you are stating, by saying Paul is one the most intelligent person in the thread. Aka he is in agreement with your opinions. Which also means that you put yourself in the same category “the most intelligent person in this thread”.

I’m sure anyone who agrees with your opinions is intelligent.

This.

Remember how it was when you left?

Imagine that but some skill balancing and an even more dead player base.

6 months is very optimistic lol.

Muramasma.1570:

The jumping thing really illustrates the point that nobody actually has any clue what they’re talking about. Arguing for the sake of arguing? Fanboying for the sake of fanboying? Who knows.

Everyone thinks they are qualified to be a critic. Sadly those people won’t admit they haven’t a clue.

Ben Cheney.2753:

Long story short I achieved rank 12 and Champ 4 or so guesting with some big names while they were active; so I did the time in GW1 PvP. However, I really fail to see it’s relation to GW2 at all. The combat is fundamentally different and so PvP has to be fundamentally different. I know people in this thread are aware of this, but I think we need to just drop the “well its not successful because it isn’t enough like GW1”.

The fact that you don’t see the relation between the two is exactly why we are where we are today. The fact they are so different. That is the prime mistake and what has taken us here in the first place.

And why would we drop that argument? That argument is true. It is not as successful as GW1 PvP? Well, the obvious answer is that it is not enough like GW1.

**Also – Is Anet really paying attention to this thread like they said they would lol.

Valkyriez.6578:

There’s plenty of people out there that tried GW1 and didnt like it, quite likely more then than the people that did.

We are all entitled to an opinion, mine is that GW1 was terrible and felt as clunky as they come. Yours is different, funny how both are valid.

Both opinions are valid. Hence opinion.

Your opinion sits with the minority.
The opposing opinion to your opinion rests with the majority.

Funny right?

Valkyriez.6578:

Sorry lads. Can’t agree. Gw1 was atrocious. Point and click, No jumping and had a high learning curve that unless u played from the start it was almost impossible to make any sense of the game without outside website information.

GW1 was not atrocious. GW1 was ahead of its time. Point and click? You realize people used “click to move” as a form to outplay their opponents right? You realize body blocking your opponent to control movement was a tactical and skilled maneuver right? You realize learning any new game at a competitive level will take some time and skill right?

Valkyriez.6578:

It also looked extremely weird watching your characters move. The skill system was interesting, and the game modes were fun but that’s about it.

I know right? Watching characters have two legs and be able to actually USE them?!?!? That concept is a fantasy MMORPG right there in itself! And “that’s” about it? You realize that is exactly what made GW1 amazing right?

Valkyriez.6578:

GW2 seriously lacks systems and infrastructure, but outside of that it is light years ahead of GW1. It certainly is far from perfect and quite different but here’s a red hot tip you can take to the bank, Arena Net knows some of you will dislike this game.

That’s why they didn’t shutdown GW1. Feel free to go back and play that.

Whilst your on your way there, take your whinging with you.

GW2 lacks EVERYTHING. GW2 started with EVERYTHING. Look what the game has diminished to.

Think about this for a second: If GW2 PvP __is so far ahead of GW1 PvP, why has the GW2 PvP died almost instantaneously with the PvP population practically uninstalling the game while GW1 PvP has more competition than GW2 PvP currently has?

Is GW2 PvP just SO INCREDIBLE and SO FAR AHEAD that all the “Pros” aren’t ready to handle it?

The answer is pretty obvious here. Try to not let all the shiny effects distract you from how poor the game has degraded since GW1.

Muramasma.1570:

@Diage

Best of luck to you then, mate. I’ve felt for a long while now that half of GW1’s player base could have put together a more solid PvP game than what we have now, just off of there GW1 experience alone. ANet had all the tools and resources they needed, all the dedicated fanbase a new game could ever hope for, and a completely unique PvP system that had its players raving. Before launch, this game’s many promises and premises seemed (at least to me and a good deal of others) to be a progression/improvement on the system that was well loved. Personally, I was looking forward to a fresh start in the GW world, as I stopped playing at Nightfall’s launch due to time restraint (having played since launch). Instead, we were given World of Charrcraft.

Hindsight may be 20/20, but I’m not sure what ANet expected to happen when they’ve centered the game on its PvE content while treating PvP as some kind of sideshow (lol @ eSport aspirations, they couldn’t have POSSIBLY been taking themselves seriously with that one). What’s more is that the PvE content is relatively bland, easily soloed, and becoming more WoW-like with every update. Content updates are generally just temporary events, yet the player base still faithful to the game will rave about how fast this new content is being pumped out. Actual permanent endgame additions have so far simply been new dungeon treadmills that mirror those of the very games the GW team had once strived to break away from.

Why?

Perhaps the casual PvE crowd they’ve attracted likes buying gems more? Maybe ANet saw the enduring success of WoW and thought they could get the same results by mirroring Blizzard’s game. What they fail to realize is that there are 32178234 other games that have been doing just that for years. Nobody’s gonna beat the heavyweight champion of casual MMO gaming at their own game, it won’t happen.

This is essentially why many have considered this game a failure. Instead of tapping into the HUGE player base they had practically handed to them, they chose to do a 180 and be like every other MMO on the market, with a few gimmicks. This is why game’s population has taken a near-unrecoverable blow since launch. This is why OP’s idea will ultimately be fruitless. This is why s/tPVP will be forever plauged with unbalanced FotM cookie cutter builds, a strong FPS mentality, and a poor to nonexistent community.

These are things that, at this point, I feel ANet MUST be aware of, but choose to not act on, or even simply acknowledge.

P.S. as for the balancing of your game, a strong offence is of course necessary to crack a solid defense, but should be achieved through the combined efforts of the team a la GW1. This is why damage should be reduced – it would force different coordinations rather than having a few powerful DPS’s running around killing anyone as soon as a mistake is made (kind of similar to what we currently have, no?)

@alcopaul

I think you missed the point of my post.

I’m well aware of what [MATH] did and accomplished – I’m not challenging that. In fact, I never really had anything against your guild or even the hordes of IWAYers plaguing the Halls. IWAY was always a gimmick, and it did not take long at all for any team I joined to develop swift and effective strategies for dealing with it. Admittedly, I specifically remember losing to [MATH] at least twice in my time, but that’s just how the game goes – we were outplayed.

No, I’m not challenging [MATH]’s ability to be effective IWAYers (lol @ effective and IWAY used in the same sentence).

What I AM challenging is your viewpoint that GW2 Pv kitten uperior, more intricate, dynamic, diverse, etc. than GW1. I cite your history with IWAY as the reason for your misguided opinion. In fact, I can see WHY you would believe that. IWAY was even more of a hack-and-slash fest than the mess we have now. I’m well aware of the strategy employed by the typical IWAY warrior, and any additional professions brought along were equally basic. Furthermore, the IWAY unit is one that closely mirrors the the GW2 unit — a bunch of self-sufficient DPS hotheads running around and doing their own thing, occasionally coordinating some kind of focus fire here and there.

THAT, alcopaul, is why I don’t believe you have any idea of what you’re talking about when it comes to GW1’s PvP intricacies.

Everything you said in regards to his opinions in this and other threads I wholehearted agree with and have been thinking everything time he posts.

THANK YOU.

#alco_still_lives_in_the_glory_days_of_IWAY
#needs_to_move_on

Being successful with a gimmick does not support your position in this thread alco. Please stop repeating the same thing over and over. We get it, you beat some notable guilds with a build that was overpowered at the time. You had a high rank as a result.

#hash__tagsarelame

Aza.2105:

Simply put…yes. Why would you change something that isn’t broken? Its like Capcom vastly changing the formula of Street Fighter from what people have been use to all of these years. The only thing they do is add and take away different mechanics from the game, but they never change the basic formula.

GW1 was intended to be a pvp game from the start….pve was suppose to be something that you did to understand the gameplay mechanics I think. I don’t think Anet ever intended for a strong pve following but it happened.

GW2 is the total opposite, built for pve experience from the ground up with pvp as a bonus. They felt gw1 pvp was too complex and just chopped it all together because they wanted to get more casuals into the pvp playing field. But people who like pve will prefer pve over pvp regardless of how simple they make it.

But yes, if they had taken the gw1 pvp formula and added dodge and jump to it, that would of been a more ideal progression of the system. But to take away: build variety, strategy, team work, game modes, to take away everything, is just too much.

This is a very accurate post. A lot of people still don’t understand the fundamentals that GW1 was based off of. If anything – I know a large majority of people were essentially hoping for GW1 with updated graphics and a fresh start. Hence that large majority has left this game. As much as I want ANET to succeed with GW2 and turn it into the game it should have been – I really want to see them crash and burn – To learn the hard way.

Diage.6451:

@Xeph

You do realize, in 2005 when GW1 came out, esports didn’t exist. You also realize that Guildwars had a $100,000 tournament in 2005.

I play a real sport called soccer, I love the sport and I would say I am at least above average at it. I enjoy the sport because you need a team, it invokes adrenaline, and it takes skill. Certainly, many people sit around in the U.S. and don’t understand soccer for one second, but yet it is a beautiful sport. For a matter of fact, it is the most popular sport in the world. Yet, near no one understands at first attempt, or even second at that.

GvG is a game that gives me a similar sensation to soccer when I play it. I feel like I am taking part in a team, like I am working together and that my team depends on me on a level far higher than can I win a 1v1 or live to a 2v1. Gw1 even had a sense of adrenaline, I PRACTICED for GvG. I played that game for just over 5 years since beta and it is something I have never found a mate too.

There is a consideration one must make when making games, complexity versus skill cap. You need to create a game with as little complexity as possible but as high a skill cap as possible. Problem is that complexity and skill cap are often interwoven together. In GW1, the skill cap was extremely high but Anet did nothing to ever lower the complexity of the game making it impossible to learn. They assumed the complexity and skill cap were the same thing and to make it easy for people to join, they just needed to make it less complex, what do we get? A game that has a skill cap orders of magnitude smaller.

(Oh, and btw, I did wonder if Team Paridigm was the same guild from Guildwars 1. )

I concur with your post entirely.

Thank you for that

Xeph.4513:

GW1 was never an esport, infact there is only a handful of games that can be considered an esport, GW1 had a highly competitive community that enjoyed playing it, because the playstyle suited them and they enjoyed the overall mechanics of it.
The fact that you enjoyed GW1 and didn’t enjoy GW2 doesn’t make it by any means less competitive then GW1.

eSports weren’t really advertised to any type of game other than first person shooters. Guild Wars broke that barrier. It is the reason you started playing GW2 in the first place. GW1 PvP was eSport quality and garnered a fanbase worthy to call it an eSport along with the real life prizes that came with it.
You’re right. Its the fact that THOUSANDS of other players enjoyed it and don’t enjoy GW2 PvP that make it more competitive.

Xeph.4513:

Fact is every game has a core competitive base, no matter how small it is, it remains competitive, and I find no pleasure in going on forum just to inform them that the game I previously played was more competitive then the one they are playing, its something they enjoy playing therefore they may continue to do so.

If you don’t enjoy the GW2, pvp formula then don’t play it, I am sure no one has put a gun to your head and asked you to do so, I personally find it more engaging then the previous GW1 playstyle, but that’s just me, I don’t need to come on the forums and harp about it nor do I wish to compare the two because the difference is so vast there is no point in doing so.

Fact is you need to respect other people’s opinions on the matter, there is no real point in trying to sway their opinion or try and even compare two systems that are as different as day and night, there just isn’t a point and no conclusion will be reached.

Great, you are part of the very small minority that find GW2 PvP competitive and actually play it.

“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” (Give it a few months and that few will turn into the one)

I respect opinions perfectly fine. You need to stop making assumptions so quickly. Wrong ones for that matter.

Xeph.4513:

Also I find it kind of sad, that you go around accusing people of stealing your guildname, but then again that’s also a reflection of the kind of person I am posting to, and I do realise my efforts are wasted on someone who obviously doesn’t understand how pompous and arrogant he sounds when he makes such an accusation.

All in all, don’t waste your breath and move on, look for a different game that you can hopefully enjoy as much as you have GW1 cause obviously GW2 isn’t it.

There are so many comments in this section that are assumptions and just plain silly. But I suppose my input has illicited an emotional response from you. The mistake you are making is that you think I care at all about the guild name. I feel like I might have to simplify my posts to you so you can understand them. I guess you could say I should “GW2 PvP” my posts so they are dumbed down for you.

Your efforts are wasted hoping GW2 will turn into any eSport you fantasize it to be. Get over it.

alcopaul.2156:

Skill balances. And age. their formula didn’t work because they were used to their old ways. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. It’s natural but it doesn’t take away the fact that they pwned back then, and while they pwned back then, the players who belittle them now were noobs back then.

Your argument is invalid. I was not playing competitive GvG when the “old dogs” were excelling.

alcopaul.2156:

Only 2 guilds were running IWAY when we put IWAY in GvG. The other guild was rank 400s and we managed to get rank 30s. (this was before [cute] started running). If there was no skill running IWAY, we would be with the same range as the other IWAY guild no? And we beat skilled people with what you claim a no-skill build. How is that even possible? that’s not sound logical because following logic, we should be always losing to skilled people.

You had more skill with a skill-less build than other people had with a skill-less build. Simple. I am saddened you do not have a wide perception on this and that you are still trying to justify that IWAY was a quality build representative of skill.

alcopaul.2156:

And yo, today’s players sucked back in the day and will surely lose to player’s back in the day. And how would you beat people now from back in the day when they are not playing anymore? it’s not possible.

Haha, I am so glad you brought this up. People from way back in the day who were notable did come back for periods of time to play. The game requires more skill now. The game is faster paced. Those “old school” players who showed up couldn’t keep up. It was a huge disappointment to be honest. I formed a guild with several of them and I ended up leaving because they were so stubborn about their ways. They only lost more than usual at that point.

alcopaul.2156:

Way back, i personally play why i have malt liquor on my desk so as expected most of my intellect is on the back burner. I have a guildie who is drunk all the time when he plays GW1. 50% of the guild in the GvG branch was of legal age and there are times when they come home drunk and log on to GW1 and GvG (and our leader will just on a shouting rage when we perform badly which we understood because he’s inebriated).. So IWAY suits us. Get drunk and pwn. So there is no need to use most of our intellect so much. But we used some and it yielded results. Rank 30’s as i’ve said.

Yet ask anyone about MATH. “They ran IWAY” is about all you will get out of them. Not that they were great or good or amazing players. They ran IWAY. Rank or not that is all you ran and all you will be remembered for. So please stop trying to justify your skill level with it.

I agree with your post motoko. But you expect too much from the devs. PvP was on the release date of GW2 not even close to what you can call “complete”. And now there are about 4 ppl working on the PvP-side. If you look at all the issues that have to be fixed (leaderboards, proper soloq, reward-system etc.), it’s impossible to add other modes meanwhile.
I think we will see more modes in the future for sure. But this will take time.
I’m not defending A-Net in terms of what they released and called AAA-PvP. But we are in this frustrating situation now and we do what we can. (eg shoutcasters, promotions etc.). So be patience and hopfully we see a healthy pvp in 2014.

Sadly your post is true – I suppose I am fed up gambling with time to see if ANET develops intellect to correct their situation.

@Milo – 100% agree.

What future of PvP?

@OP if you think fixing gear takes priority over creating a better game mode (GW1 GvG) – You would be perfect working for ANET – That is why the PvP is in such a huge pile of kitten right now.

wads.5730:

then release the spvp part of the game as a separate free to play client. people can download this and be restricted to only hotm.

this will bring in all the casuals and pad the player base nicely. the competitive scene will grow as a direct result.

This claim has been made hundreds of times for GW1 PvP and was never implemented.

GW1 PvP is and was tons more enjoyable than GW2 PvP has ever been.

Fat chance they would free to play a worse version than its predecessor.

It is hard to get matched with people your rank when hardly anyone plays PvP in this game.

You are better off trying another game that actually has enjoyable PvP.

Yeah can we change GW2 PvP to GW1 PvP. Thanks.

alcopaul.2156:

when victory depends on killing an npc, all effort and perfect skill synergies with your teammates goes down into a flushing toilet if your lord is killed.

we have had matches where we cannot even kill kitten. we waited while our enemy waited in the flagstand. one of our warriors snicked and waited in an area undetected for VoD. VoD came and they decided to rush our lord in our base and our solo warrior Killed the guild lord. Too late for them.

You outplayed your opponent. Your opponent was too stupid to count 7 opposing players visible and realize 1 was missing and doing something. That is the nature of the game.

alcopaul.2156:

Conquest will showcase your skill usage since winning doesn’t depend on killing an npc. Since killing and capping will accrue your points. No such thing as lucky wins. Also since an spectator will see how you’ll use your skills, you will be judged by that.

Conquest is boring as hell. Stop it.

alcopaul.2156:

But it would be a bad idea.

No it wouldn’t.

alcopaul.2156:

1.) Anything to revitalize GW1 sales will be moot since they basically copypasta-ed what will potentially be the reason to buy or return to GW1. Bad business decision.

This isn’t about revitalizing GW1 sales. This is about fixing the PvP in GW2 which, by majority opinion, sucks.

alcopaul.2156:

2.) If conquest fails as an e-sport and be superceded by GW1 copypasta, that means that their product failed. For GW2 was marketed with Conquest as its main bundle.

The PvP product has failed, have you not been paying attention to the past 9 months?

3.) Incoming playerbase will be frustrated for they will think that competing in a game with players that basically knows the mechanics for 5 years is not fair.

Everyone knew that when they bought GW2. New players expected an eSport scene and old players expected an advantage. It wouldn’t stop them at this point.

4.) E-sports are easy to follow and easy to get into. There are countries where they can set basketball courts in the roads and alleys and they set up their own league. Conquest is easy to setup, easy to follow, easy to get into. GW1 PvP require prolly a year(?) to be at least decent. and what sucks is that you will be competing with people who played for more than 5 years. It’s not noob friendly.

Who cares if it noob friendly or not? The entire GW1 PvE series spent its time practically teaching you to be prepared for PvP. Hence the name “Guild Wars”.
And guess what! You’re right – Conquest is easy to setup, follow, and get into – But guess what? It is stale, boring as hell, and people have quit the game because PvP has been such a large let down.

5.) If GvG/HA/RA is still good, there should be people winning HoH up to now. Where are they now? In GW2. or in other games. People want new things, fresh.

You’re right. Fresh. But the PvP died in GW1 due to some poor skill balancing – but also due to the GWWC trips being taken away as well as any real life prizes.

6.) Notice the people who wants the old things to come back – the few old players. Business is business. Notice the most active threads in these forums and what are they talking about. a.net for sure will prioritize them more for they are the paying patrons who pay gems because of this new skins. But who would play GvG if they monetize GvG for the kitten of it, like paying 5 gems to play 2 GvGs and kitten.

You don’t have a lot of threads created by people such as myself who know GW1 PvP has a future in GW2 because those people have left this game. No one would pay to play, that is stupid.

The more you post, the more it becomes clear as to why you never excelled at anything but IWAY. That build was easy to win with little or no skill. Being actually good at the game required quite a bit of intellect. And I can promise you that players who were good “back in the day” would most likely get stomped in today’s GvG.

Your entire post essentially supported what I have been saying. You just took a very biased standpoint and tried to defend it very poorly.

Dahkeus.8243:

This would be a huge undertaking and would probably only appeal to a very niche audience.

In other words, this will never happen.

It would appeal to a larger audience than what currently exists in the GW2 PvP section. When GW2 came out people expected something as good as GW1 PvP along with the eSport potential and the real life prizes and trips.

You can’t have an eSport with a PvP mode that isn’t fun or exciting.