Guild Wars 2

March 18th is a maintenance patch, not a features patch.

Do not expect anything of note on this front this month.

Since I rather enjoyed the team being turned into Charr or Asura in certain fractals, lets take it up a notch – fractals where the team is turned into once race AND assigned a specific racial elite for the duration of the fractal – with the bosses of the fractal having specific vulnerabilities to that elite.

I’d also like to see more use of environmental weapon bundles.

I think the heart of the challenge is how much do you want to place expectation on the composition of the team?

If the content designer can expect:

1 power-based damage dealer
1 condition-based damage dealer
1 one durable character
1 support character

Then you can have a lot wider range of hurdles.

I think the problem with the Dredge 2-button encounter is not so much that it asks for a durable character (a rare breed to begin with) but that it asks for TWO of them.

If you added an environmental bundle, Like a Dredge Riot shield, then the 1 expected durable character can do their part and another character can temporarily take on that aspect to hold down the other switch.

Extending the principle, we can look forward to fights that use mechanics like we’re seeing in the Breach Maker fight right now with a shield that has to be worn down with conditions. The one expected condition character gets to shine, and an environmental bundle like a Witch’s Pointing Bone or some other lore-friendly tool is placed nearby so a second character can also fill in as a conditionmancer for that fight.

Expect 1, equip 1. Demand more variety than just 4 DPS and a Guard ((and stop making everything a DPS race… ))

So, outside of bait — er, I mean rewards — do we have any thoughts on how to get more players involved in playing fractals, moving up the ladder of once → occasionally → daily → competitively?

Is there something we can appeal to other than loot?

Would having a rotating selection of fractals help? The Rytlock Origin only comes up on a 5-day cycle maybe? (with origin fractals for all the Destiny’s Edge characters rounding out the 5-day rotation)

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am pretty sure Izzy responded to this question a few months ago. I will check with him.

I seriously hope not, because that would mean we somehow missed an announcement that “You’re just gonna have to lump it.”

Do the right thing on this one. Please.

Those players should be your ambassadors of fractaline awesome to the rest of the player base, not the most legitimately bitter voices.

Maybe we should all just stop posting for a bit until Allie gets done being all hands-on with the Thief issues she’s taken an interest in.

I’m sure she’ll be back soon.

timmyf.1490:

This is my own personal view of what people who might not be following closely should know to “catch up” a bit. There were topics discussed which I left out, some on purpose, others by accident, but I still think this is a relatively representative summary.

Thanks!

Leaderboards?

I’m also not sure how I feel about purposefully leaving stuff out.

March 4 is a Living Story episode, concluding the first season with an effort to re-take Lion’s Arch.

March 18 has been described as a “maintenance patch” and will likely be centered on small bug fixes.

The Features Patch (probably includeing the Rune and Sigil revamp along with many class balance changes) has not yet been announced, other than to say its NOT hitting on March 18.

snow.8097:

They nerfed our shortbow range…a shortbow that shoots so wide as a longbow is not logical. sure it sucks when we had more range at release but shortbow is q good weapon.

Momentary Aside: Historically, some of the longest ranged bows in the real world have very short arms – the Mongolian cavalry bow. Likewise crossbows have longer ranges than something huge like a dai-kyu.

Materials used in construction has a LOT more to do with range than the length of the bowstring .

Now back to our fantasy world.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Cool because I have this dream whereby one day we get to the point in the CDI where our mutual trust as community and developer is so strong that my voice is no longer perceived as being any ‘louder’ than anyone elses.

That is my dream (-:

Getting teased IS being part of the gang. Count it as win we don’t fall back on formal language and fear of offending you. Much.

((And actually I was unclear – when I said “Woohoo! New Content ” I meant I was happy to see you as just another player casting a ‘vote’ for new content, not “Confirmed: new fractals”. However, the inadvertent joke may be funnier ))

The Lost Witch.7601:

How set are we on the current fractal structure in this regard? (An adventure of 4 semi-randomly picked mini dungeons)

Because I think that with a different structure, the lore possibilities can be enjoyed by a lot more people than just the hardcore fractal crowd. (Since reaching those bits of lore can be quite a hassle in the current system, especially if they are on the third and fourth fractal tier)

I would really like to see fractals of the mists as an explorable area. Where players can travel through the mists at their own risk. Where party sizes can differ between fractals. And where we can feel the thrill of exploration as true pioneers. (Going further than any NPC from ‘our’ Tyria has traveled before)

Going back to your “floppy” idea…

If the Mistlock Observatory were expanded or a new small, misty, mysterious bit of fantastical landmass were added (say, about the size of the sPvP training area) with slightly mobile “fractures” that you could identify and then use to enter the exact fractal of your choosing, you could acquire some sort of progress credits used to buy entry into a boss fractal for the big loot. When you have a complete floppy that has been run through ALL the fractals at least once, you can turn it in for a choice of the top tier rewards or maybe a huge infusion of fractal relics (like 800 plus a bonus based on the average difficulty level of your set)

You let people just intent on their daily pick their pieces – much smaller, discrete pieces that can be mix-and-matched over time making the single-sitting commitment smaller.

But to get the good stuff, you have to run them all at least once.

Very much so. Take it in the jovial spirit it was intended .

((Your signature made me laugh aloud))

Chris Whiteside.6102:

What if we could send players forward in Fractal time?

NuclearBuddha.8641:

That’d be an amazing way to hint at upcoming content to players, especially if it was added quietly.

Oh, they already did that. The Snowblind Fractal is foreshadowing parts of the campaign against Jormag in late 2015.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am hoping that we can inject more lore and epic moments into the fractals. That we can transport player’s to even more iconic periods of Guild Wars history.

Woohoo! New content .

What if we could send players forward in Fractal time?

“Introducing the Foreboding Fractal – Dessa’s probes have locked onto a new fractal hinting at what may come to pass as the Living Story advances into its second season.”

With a firm plan at the outset something like this could be a very compelling narrative tool.

I am hoping that we can build on the strong foundation that we have with base Fractal mechanics and continue to build challenging encounters through strategic gameplay and strong ‘team’ centric inter-dynamics.

I’m going to tease you that the word ‘fun’ appears nowhere in your post .

I as a player also hope that we can make fractals more rewarding, especially in regard to ascended acquisition.

As the tier matures, I think we’re going to (have to) see continuing adjustments across all play modes. I’m still eager to see more possible improvements from the vertical progression thread work their way to Live. My alts are waiting .

I hope this answers some of your questions. Fractals are one of my favorite parts of the game and these are some of my wishes for their evolution.

Thank you. It does nicely in matters of looking to the future. I foresee in the next CDI Evolution thread I’ll again be asking for threads to include a Primer that helps us better understand “where we are at now – Arena’s Perspective” as a launch point for our flights of fancy .

Maybe we can get some insight from our Host:

Chris, what do you see as the long term value proposition of Fractals? Not necessarily the company policy, just your take as a well-informed designer. Why should players keep coming back after getting their rings & backpack and/or getting to level 50? What is the lasting appeal of this content? You’ve mentioned a blue sky dream of large-group fractals. Any other outside-the-box wishes that might help us better grasp the scope of changes this discussion might precipitate?

Don’t get me wrong – I think the polishing should be done. I just, in my heart of hearts, can’t believe that it would take more than a day to write the code to kill re-rolling. That it would take more than a day to rip the clown car out of the Underground facility Fractal. That the meetings to review and expand the array of choices for the Fractal vendors drawing on existing assets would take more than 3-4 days of focused analysis. Then yes, all of that has to be tested before being pushed to Live, but ultimately if there was the will, all of the these adjustment would take less time to execute than we’ve spent talking about them .

phys.7689:

i get what you are saying, but you are really underestimating reward value in game design. Content is important but without the right reward structure, you will not support your content properly. You have to structure your rewards so they encourage the type of play you design, and you also have to structure it to reinforce your game goals.

You’re right – I want to incentivize use by people who want to be there because they enjoy fractals gameplay, not open up a new path for optimizing Dragonite-per-second calculations.

Reward-as-motive is inherently limited, because ultimately you achieve your goal(s) and are DONE. Gameplay-as-motive is a vastly more durable model because playing more is the goal. Doing something 200 times because you must to get the reward is grind. Playing a 200th time because you liked the previous 199 outings is the result of rich gameplay. It has a binary impact on whether you’ll play it a 201st time. You can pay someone to play tic-tac-toe 200 times and they’ll do it if the pay is good, no matter how bored off their rump they are. But people will spend their lives mastering chess for no other reason that to master chess.

Every request for revised/improved rewards is a statement “you’re no longer paying me enough to do something repetitive.” I’d like to see the evolution of fractals be more akin to rising from tic-tac-toe towards chess rather than upping the hourly wage…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

In a similar way to the exercise that Orpheal has under taken it would be wise now to ask you all to pick 1 area that you would prioritize above all others having has the chance to have seen everyone’s opinions around each others proposals.

My revised opinion is that we’re mired in trivia.

…Adding shinies to a vendor, fiddling with average clear times of this single fractal or that one, slamming shut a tiny loophole…

It’s trivia. These are all things that should be done, but they’re neither difficult nor important.

The main thing that’s going to keep fractals vibrant is adding more scenarios.

New Content will drive the continued use of fractals far more than polish.

So, if fractals had individual rewards and we could pick exactly which ones to do, we’d essentially have recreated dungeons. The question becomes, are the Devs satisfied with the dungeons and the vast imbalances in the usage of the various paths? Imbalances that scaled rewards appear to have done little to redress. Best Reward:Effort ratios were worked out to 5 decimal places and enshrined in common practice. Those cyclical compulsion loops are very tight and very easily worn out. Fractals, through their random elements have much greater longevity because they don’t let you burn yourself out so easily. Its a quality we should not be so quick to discard in the never-ending chase after the shinies.

dutchiez.7502:

spoj.9672:

Adding dragonite into fractals would be nice. Atm dungeon runners are forced to do wvw or open world to get their dragonite. And they have no shortage of emp fragments and bloodstone dust.

God yes! Please add dragonite as a reward to fractals or dungeons in general, so the dungeon runners who don’t enjoy zerging content but do enjoy having BiS gear can stop grinding temples!

When a system is designed with multiple currencies to require play in multiple areas/modes, rearranging things so one activity can net you all the currencies is pretty much defeating the point. It’d be easier to make everything drop Bloodstone Dust and set Vision Crystals to take 15 Bricks, eliminating Empyreal Shards and Dragonite ore entirely.

5-man instances (Dungeons & Fractals) give Empyreal Shards. I wouldn’t expect it to change. Large group activities give Dragonite. Maybe we’ll get Dragonite Ore if the 5+ player version of Fractals materializes .

videoboy.4162:

It just seems that the major complaint about the Dredge, is the amount of time it takes to complete it. Each example people point out, involves a major amount of spawns. Couldn’t they just lessen the amount of spawns in those three areas, thus making a considerable reduction in the amount of time needed to complete the Fractal?

The thing to consider is that for the buttons, and blow-the-door encounters, killing all of the spawns isn’t a win condition. They don’t respawn to force you to kill more of them, they respawn to keep the pressure on while you’re doing something else entirely. Reducing the number/speed of respawns changes the difficulty throughout the process but not the length, directly.

In the clown car fight, killing all of them IS a win condition. Reducing the number of respawns changes the length directly.

videoboy.4162:

From a time/technological standpoint, would Dredge not be the faster/simpler thing to fix?

Depends very much on how it’s done.

I think my preferred solution would be to simply remove Rabsovich and company.

Then you have 3 major encounters that provide a nice pendulum swing from

Test of Durability requiring some coordination (the buttons/panel)
Test of Durability and Coordination (blasting open the door)
Test of Coordination requiring some durability (End-Bosses)

Right now the Clown Car just interrupts the flow with a big fat test of patience .

Conversely, in the Swamp Fractal I’d make Bloomhunger a mandatory mid-boss and Mossman the mandatory end-boss. The current variability does not make it a better fractal and its simply too short.

Which those two elements in place and re-rolling dead on the floor, I also very much like the idea of getting rid of the fixed tiers – make it random selection again. Some extremely long Fractals can be flagged to lock each other out (e.g. getting Cliffs prevents any other tagged choices for the rest of the run) but mostly we’re back to some real hold-your-breath mystery on what’s the next load-in will bring.

Why all the hub-bub? That skill is in the game. Its called Warrior Longbow #3.

haviz.1340:

Make a video how you dodge all of the autoattacks of cultists, ascalonians, dredges, mossman, archdiviner and aetherblades. I’m not sure you are aware of that but you have 2 dodges every 20 seconds and you fight more than 1 of those mobs at the same time.

If you’re dead certain, that Berserker is not the best way to roll in high level fractals, then having leader boards based on speed clearing will NOT make it a strictly Berserker-based activity.

That was the argument raised against speed clearing as a metric. And I believe (like you) that Berserker WON’T be the singular solution to best-time runs.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

From a brain storming standpoint I think 5+ fractals would be their own entity within fractals and thus be balanced for 5+ only.

I think you’d better expect that once you introduce the technology to have 5+ as a working party size for any content, you’re going to hear UNENDING howling until it’s used for content in more places than just “those filthy elitist fractals” .

That genie will not go back in its bottle.

JohnnySupernova.9182:

The first five pages were filled with “fix dredge” proposals, and even after you told people to stop talking about dredge it still gets brought up. I think it’s pretty clear which of these is a higher priority. Rolling as a “problem” is so small in comparison to the other problems with fractals that I’m not sure why it’s even being considered as as a priority thing.

Giving the players a vote between “Make something long and tedious shorter” or “Fix a minor exploit” is one of those elections that’s not hard to forecast the outcome .

Fortunately, we can probably have both.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am assuming that you all feel that for example a Dredge rework is higher priority than say a rework to rolling?

Does re-tuning the Underground Fractal have greater absolute benefit to the game? Yes. Certainly.

Does Re-tuning/effort required deliver more benefit for the coder-hours invested than Fixing re-rolling/effort required… I tend to think not, but there’s only one person here who can speak with authority on that aspect, and he’s got a red name tag.

But… since players are always happier with a nerf when it comes with at least a small buff, I would definitely roll out both changes together in the same patch .

Roy Cronacher.1576:

This is a pretty cool idea to make that trait a bit more unique for each shout rather than applying the same two boons for every shout. It would give more reason to take specific shouts. In general shouts do need some tweaks as well to make them more appealing.

It would be directly analogous to the Guardian trait Inspired Virtue. Since it demands higher commitment (both to acquire the trait and to carry shouts in your utility slots) it could/should deliver greater benefit.

All in all a fairly elegant suggestion.

haviz.1340:

Are you complaining about attack speed of mobs in Fractals CDI? Are you aware that majority of mobs in fractals attack almost as fast or just as fast as players?

Which mobs? Because I know we’re not talking about the Krait, the cultists, the Sons of Svanir, jade shards, the Dredge…

I guess Bloomhunger has a pretty quick tempo.

Could be my baseline for players is skewed since I don’t roll Hammer or Greatsword all that often .

I’m not sure how berserker’s gear is a defensive gear during fights with mossman or archdiviner when you go down after every single autoattack of them, unlike players with more tanky setups. Fights also don’t take 20 seconds but more like 2 minutes or more.

Perfect. Then encouraging berserker WON’T be an outcome of introducing speed clear leaderboards. Which would be why the comment was made in regards to Fractals.

Interesting. Mr. Cronacher appears to be working from the end towards beginning. Have to see if any more proposals get the nod.

Gads… Did you see how much each wine costs? I might get the first tier, but 10 for title? Too much! Anet needs to reduce the prices. This is just a slap in the face.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

By implementing a speedrunning leaderboard, Anet would probably push even more people to go the full-zerker way, and we might get even more people dying again and again in our groups.

Speed Running for recognition doesn’t make people wear Berserker.

The absence of danger that can’t be negated by rolling makes people wear Berserker.

Defensive stats in these game are rendered completely irrelevant by the ‘action gameplay’. Specifically, NPCs having an attack tempo that’s a fraction of the players’ tempo and having the majority of their threat presented as infrequent, wildly telegraphed gigantic hits that rarely ever land. Who needs Toughness when the hit will kill you outright if it connects? Who needs Vitality if it won’t give you margin for error when you miss a key dodge? Too often the only meaningful defense is dodge well and the only way to improve your chances of success doing that is to make the fight as short as possible, to reduce the number of times your dodging skills are checked. Over reliance on Dodge by the content designers has made Berserker the best defensive stat combo in the game.

Plenty of skilled delvers would tell you that they could ignore Agony Resistance too (another defensive stat…) if it weren’t for the occasions where you can’t dodge Agony.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’m curious what you all think about choke points as strategic ideas. I don’t think we’d ever want a map that was just a bunch of canyons, this isn’t Sparta or Thermopylae, but having areas that make it harder for large groups to get through if they are well-defended creates gameplay. Think of a tower that guards the only pass through a canyon, rather than bridges everywhere. Is that something that, in moderation, could provide for more varied and strategic gameplay?

For the purposes of the question, think in terms of building a new map from scratch, rather than retrofitting the current maps.

I’ll build a full presentation in a bit (about to see a movie ) but I wanted to drop off the rough outline quickly.

THE FRINGES
Add three smaller maps to WvW around the perimeter. These “fringe” maps are only accessible to 2 of the 3 realms: A Red-Blue fringe, a Blue-Green fringe, and a Green-Red fringe.

These maps are laid out as relatively long, narrow strips where choke points and Thermopylae-style fights are the norm – there is no broad plains to go around on. You can add a little daring with jump puzzle level of difficulty side trails for position or bypass, but the action is firmly rooted on a single ‘road’. You can also make things extra dramatic in uniquely Mists-style by making the whole zone a cliff face with the abyss always looming to one side . Or float the entire thing over the void. Either way bridges fit the landscape nicely.

For PTT relevance, each fringe includes exactly 2 camps and a single keep arranged:

Camp -> Keep <- Camp

With map points so heavily weighted in a single place, there is no way two friendly severs can split the map equitably. There will be war. Further, simultaneous control of both of your Fringe keeps should grand a tangible bonus on the Eternal Battlegrounds map. With Fringes being accessible to only 2 servers, they make the ideal location to work out your grudges against hated a rival server without the other server playing kingmaker, and provide a potential stage for ritual combat between individuals or guilds, again with fewer interruptions from third parties.

By adding some specialized, high value targets in separate maps you also spread out the action across multiple fronts allowing WvW to absorb more (and smarter) players – a big push in EB could require dispatching smaller forces to break the enemy’s hold in the shared Fringe.

That leaderboards serve a different audience than is coming in here to chat doesn’t mean that they don’t serve any audience.

Saying they’re useless one time or a million doesn’t make it so. The question is “does adding them provide benefit to the game commiserate to the effort it requires?” Since leaderboards are little more than a database look up and some UI work for where to post/display the results, we’re not talking about a lot of work. It doesn’t have to serve a lot of people to be very worthwhile.

The problem remains structuring it in a way so that its an enduring value. The leaderboards we have now would have made an amazing 1 week event. Keeping them open eternally is more embarrassing than enticing. There’s nothing it does better for the game today than just giving people a title for reaching level 50 would, and would have done BETTER considering you could at least see a title from inside the game client…

I’ve had a small idea that I’ve decided to jot down, put in a bottle, and toss into the sea:

A Skirmisher to be Respected
If Rangers are intended to skirmish, to gradually overcome opponents through sustained damage, they need to be able to counter their target’s ability to survive expended periods through healing. The most obvious step in the direction is to give Rangers the tools to deliver extremely high Poison up-time, to inflict the -33% healing and ensure the target will have difficulty outlasting the master of outlasting. Poison has already been noted as a theme that could strongly tie to several of the Ranger Trait lines. Look for opportunities to add Poisoned to more of their weapon skills, utilities, or through traits.

It’s even been suggested Rangers should somehow be better poisoners than most classes. But how?

To continue to build on skirmishing as an effective tactic, rangers need to be able consistently remove or even corrupt the Regeneration boon on their targets…
Fight a Ranger, no Regen for you. Period.

The two forms of poisoning could even be directly linked with a trait like~

Nature’s Venoms: Each time you Poison an opponent, you also corrupt their Regeneration boon if present.

Possibly as a master tier trait in Wilderness Survival. With no other changes this would immediately make the Ranger’s Sword, Dagger, and Shortbow skills far more effective at whittling targets down by blocking one of the major avenues for outlasting sustained damage threats.

Thank you for opening the bottle and reading the enclosed note .

Holland.9351:

If the Ranger class it supposed to be a sustained damage class without burst nor area of effect, then its single target damage should be reliable. Ranger damage is very unreliable:

Pet damage output is unreliable. Pets need to path and miss their attacks often.

Ranger long-range damage output is unreliable. All Ranger ranged weapons are projectile-based (Mesmer Greatsword isn’t for example). Meaning, they are countered by a lot of things: projectile reflect and projectile block, this on top of the usual things, like aegis that also prevent non-projectile damage.

Longbow has a long arc and can easily miss its target. It also does less damage at short range, so neither in short nor long range is the longbow reliable in dealing damage.

So no, Ranger does not have sustain unless its attack can hit their targets reliably. Pets and ranged weapons can’t. Ranger also has no on-demand condition removal, so their melee damage is also unreliable, since they can’t remove immobilize/chill/cripple, etc.

Ranger is horribly unreliable in dealing damage on a single target. So it can’t be considered a sustained-damage dealing class.

THIS is an amazingly cogent observation.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good discussion. I am enjoying it. The discussion about re rolling is very insightful.

I would appreciate it if you could put some ideas forward for Leader-board mechanics.

Specifically in regard to the fact that I was unhappy with us putting out Leader-boards in their previous functionality (having lots of folks sitting at lvl 50 was not ideal) and therefore the feature was held back.

Obviously we have given Level 50 Leader diversification a lot of thought but it would be awesome to hear your proposals. Note there are a lot of logic problems in the solutions in this area so please do think about associated risks.

I see the problem with your current boards as two-fold:

There are far too few dimensions to the “slots of recognition” – the only question asked is “can you reach 50?” and you created a competition in which 1st place is unassailable… Forever. First is first. The end. Race over.

What I would do is create a leaderboard that tracks “Time to Clear” from instance created to End-boss down. It tracks best clear time for every fractal separately, at every single difficulty level from 30 to 50. When looking at it you could sort by fractal (e.g. see all Cliffside clear times from 30 to 50 on one page) or by difficulty (e.g. see clear times for all possible fractals at difficulty 44 on one page).

This gives you a competitive landscape with almost 250 separate arenas. And rather than first is first forever, there is ALWAYS the possibility enticing you with the prospect of “You know? Our guys could shave a second or two off of the current title holder’s time if we really try…”

Then I’d sit back and giggle as slayer potion prices ticked up a point because if you’re going for a focused accomplishment like that, tactical selection of consumables is a MUST.

The immediate stumbling block is I don’t know if the game CAN run a visible or invisible timer like that.

Edit: I would also consider a Player based sorting scheme allowing you to see who has the most individual best times. Some folks might only have 2-3. The true gods of fractal stabilization might have close to 200…

Wethospu.6437:

I seriously can’t understand what you guy see in randomness.

We see the soul-crushing monotony that was CoF 1 over and over and over and over and over and over…

Players will gravitate to the easiest way to get the shiney. Sometimes its in the best interest of the game to NOT LET THEM.

Satakal.6971:

An issue I can think of is how you can be sure that a player is eligible to get a book when he completes a fractal, so we don’t end up acquiring dozens of them.

Manage them as achievements rather than inventory. Click on X to earn achievement. When you have the meta-achievement, you can look at the book .

Tenichnal question spawned by the suggestion of constricted chokepoints.

During the Marionette lane-defense phases we saw temporary battlements – rows of sandbags and barbed wire that players could cross over freely, but the enemies had to circle around.

Does the tech exist to create similar obstacles that can be “owned” by one server such that that those players can cross them freely, but the other two servers interact with them as impassible (but possibly destructible) objects?

Because as fixed baked-in positions waiting for us to bring supply to develop them, or as “portable wall” kits we can drag around and deploy like other forms of siege, the tactical possibilities they would add could be amazing.

ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTION
I think this thread has been a bit handicapped from the outset by a mistake in perspective. Seeing that The Edge of the Mists has been well-received and heavily used, the Developers — not unreasonably — asked us to help identify the secret ingredient, the special sauce, the sizzle they can portage over to other modes.

Its not where the fights take place, or how pretty the scenery is, or any singular tactical nuance. Its that, on the whole, we can trust there’s a reasonably level playing field in terms of population and that the map taken as a whole is FAIR. Because only fair fights are interesting.

It is the very first CDI thread question all over again.

I think the real Question you need to be asking yourself when attempting to improve WvW in the future is extremely basic. We’re talking first principles. Fundamental.

Do you want an environment that is IMPARTIAL or one that is FAIR?

You cannot have both.

There’s hints in the game now that you might like for the conflict to be more fair & interesting. The various “break out” events try to offset the ruthlessly impartial system of “You lack coverage? Lump it” with some semblance of counterweights against an environment that’s proven grossly lop-sided.

Until you are prepared to introduce dymanic & sensitive handicapping (both offensive and defense in nature) to the degree that you can drop a Tier 2, tier 4, and Tier 6 server into shared match for a week and no one knows the outcome in advance you’ll just have to take comfort that the system is impartial… because it will remain uninteresting.

DevonCarver.5370:

As an aside, I just wanted to call out the posts from Matipzieu KyA, which are incredibly detailed and well-thought out. We really appreciate the passion and dedication that it takes to go to those lengths. We are reading them and looking closely at the things contained within.

Incredibly detailed, long, well-thought out, Long, passionate, LONG, dedicated, LOOOONGGG… Wait, did I mention long?

Be careful what you wish for .

PvP Modes: The comical notion that with no better or varied tools than punching-each-other-in-the-face, the Player-Base will create endlessly engaging content for each other, thereby reducing the Developers’ need to do so…

And I say that as someone who liked PvP in SW:TOR… though over there we had a PvP-specific gear progression to chase after across months of heavy play and 4 different modes at launch.

The Lost Witch.7601:

New means of transportation!
…

• Conquering the skritt will grant you power of their technology. They will build a ratapult that can toss players into the cliffside tower one at a time.

((Raises hand)) I want to ride on a ratapult!

Tempus.9540:

Sorry need to make this post for slight stress relief:

Keep faith . Here, play some mad-libs!

The “Ranger Player” is a resilient gamer that excels at fighting the good fight by drawing from countless examples in literature to support themselves as well as their allies. Alongside their iconic symbols (bow, blade, and Fluffy!), they have some of the best single target and sustained ideas that will whittle the Devs down until justice is done!

• See CDI about Rangers. Glimmer of Hope traitorously forms

I just wanted to tell you I burst out laughing when I read that .

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Not really relevant, but DarcShriek, when was the last time you saw a giant dredge? (Not counting Molten bosses who are big but not big enough)

The legendary Great One, the Liberator, he who doft his stout helm before the start of Rest-Shift, creating what the unenlightened races call “Dredgehat Island”

He shall rise from justly-earned slumber and lead us to glorious freedom.

Believe, Comrades. Believe.

Allie Murdock.8152:

We’re seeing that power creep is a big problem in the game right now, so bringing the Ranger up to snuff would only exacerbate that. When we do balance patches, we like to look at every class and where they are at so we can balance appropriately throughout.

Of course, it can be hard to account for certain things when doing these patches, which is why we’re trying to do the patches less frequently so we can properly gauge what needs to be done (that’s not to say that we won’t hotfix any major issues that arise).

I’d like you to consider that when a profession is broadly held to be dead last in general effectiveness making improvements isn’t ‘power creep’…
It’s more like an apology, really .

Allie Murdock.8152:

I didn’t say Rangers are in the right spot. I just meant that we have to be very careful of the power creep.

There’s evidence to suggest about 90% of your users are willing to take that chance .

John Smith.4610:

There’s a lot to say about this idea. I like that you’re attempting to find a reasonable solution, but the one of the biggest problems is that nobody would do it.

Well, that broad statement I can immediately disprove: I would do it.

And I think you’re underestimating the number of folks who play this game not as two-legged fiscal sharks, but relatively sedate social animals who would be perfectly happy to pass on specialized drops at a ‘token price’ as long as they knew the other person actually wanted it and didn’t just see them as a altruistic sucker in need of a good fleecing.

Secondly, (this has been said) if you want your item to not be flipped, actually sell it at what it’s worth.

I may not care what it’s worth, but rather want it to get used. Dye is a good example of something in this class. In my guild people regularly announce when they got a dye drop and just mail it to whoever says "ooo, me!’ the fastest. This idea allows that behavior to be executed automatically across a far larger range of users, while setting a token price, and protecting it against predation.

Sometimes it’s sound economic behavior to increase the general level of happiness and in turn reduce the rate at which people abandon the system.

In the end, this is a very hard to explain, very hard to implement, very complicated solution to a “problem” that can be solved by just selling items at the correct price.

The language is carefully chosen because its not that hard to explain – people don’t sell kittens (the animal, not the word filter ), they try to find them “a good home” where they’ll be cherished, not exploited for their economic value.

It’s a good system and it works very well, forcing people to not trade they way they want to wouldn’t be better, it would be much worse. (not that your suggestion is forcing people, this is just a general comment)

I’ve tried to arrange things so that the tension between the two tracks serves them both. And the interplay between them could actually accelerate use of the larger system because it introduced margins between material and product that only a crafter can benefit from. It gives a very difficult role greater opportunity to serve as a ‘value adder’.

Thank you for your replies – I’ve pitched it twice previously and was never entirely certain you had seen it. I have no demands that it be implemented, just the desire to be certain it had been considered .

WATCH ME PULL A MOA OUT OF MY HAT…
While pet AI may not be entirely satisfactory, MMO combat is hardly a Turing Test. We can, with a little stagecraft, easily create the illusion of intelligent play.

Nothing Up My Sleeve…
Ranger companions gain an endurance bar, identical to player endurance bars in all ways. They gain Vigor any time their master gains vigor and they benefit from Natural Vigor if their master has that trait.

Any time the pet takes more than 20% of their maximum health in damage (a trigger we know the game recognizes due to traits like Nature’s Protection) and they have more than 50% of their endurance left, the pet instead takes no damage, evades for 2 seconds, and performs a dodge animation/movement towards its master (whom we can only hope is standing somewhere not stupid…).

Presto!
Pets now pretend to dodge, using their master as a reference point to give the appearance that they roll in a sensible direction when something massive is dropped on their heads. They also interact more consistently with the boon removal and corruption skills of other players, adding value to those skills.

Are even Players that Smart?
While I feel that triggering automatically when a major hit comes in is probably consistent with the level skilled players display, it would be possible to add an addition check with a <100% chance before the “dodge” triggers to simulate lapses. Also, because the trigger is damage-spike based, there are smaller attacks the pet will not expend a dodge to avoid. Finally, some of the pets with larger HP pools might be unnecessarily reluctant to dodge. Thresholds would have to be tuned following playtesting.

Randulf.7614:

I also love the idea of Destinys Edge fractals, maybe as a playable set you can choose inside. The arena, the dragonspawn fights, battling Kralkatorriks minions and the death of Snaff – all key moments in the book which could be played out.

I would be morally COMPELLED to put~

“I’m Logan Thackeray, and I’m going to run away.”

~into chat at the start of that fractal. Every. Time. For years, if possible. It would never get old . Those kids were awesome

Honestly, seeing this definition of “skirmisher” makes a lot of things clear to me.

I’ve always flat out HATED the Skirmisher line’s minor traits~

Tail Wind. Gain swiftness when swapping weapons in combat.
Furious Grip. Gain fury when swapping weapons in combat.
Hunter’s Tactics. Deal more damage while flanking.

To me, operating under the misapprehension that I’m on a class that’s an “unparalleled archer”, swapping weapons is a sign of weakness. It means I’ve lost control of the situation and I’m having to scramble for my back-up plan. Forcing me to take swap-based benefits on the way to picking up fundamental Archer Traits has always bugged me.

But now I see that “skirmishing” means having to whittle my foe down over a span of time so long I could swap weapons repeatedly… like its supposed to take 40 seconds or more to kill something (cue hip-hop beat) all Ranger-Skirmish-Style! Man, I am just so awesome against foes that stick around and let me kill them. Awesome I tell ya.

The problem is in 40 seconds I can swap to a character that can get the (*#^&$ job done. Without the enemy having to be a willing participant in their own demise.