Guild Wars 2

Bomb kit is what celestial build needed, we will see more celestial engineers next days. Before specialization, the condition part of mixed damages came from bleedings mainly, but now you need burnings above all, and bombs provide a recurrent aoe burning source (with others toys that makes them even more valuable).

I shared the build I planned to use in sPvP : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUh+sY7WwWLQ+FLsFF4IuBBQ4SdRvmYHVFPBA-TJhAwAH3f4/FAAwDAQcZAA
And I really love it with the range fixed, got everything to become really versatile again : decap habilities, direct damages, condition damages, sustains, controls and god mode, everything as much effective in 1vs1 than in many vs many fights.

+ Old trait elixir infused bomb should become baseline but it don’t work, please fix it
…

My new favorite build for sPvP, celestial variant of Elixir Juggernaut :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlcThatY1Vw+KQ+FL3FFYDWABQ4EGQZm4B1D5AA-TJRGwAAeAAJuAAg2fYZZAA

TBH, this is mostly a great mix of Wolfineer’s Juggernaut + Chaithh Mauraudeer …
+ my celestial obsession
+ a might stacking madness.

The way I see it, celestial is finally the best when you manage to balance the stats again, when you stack more stats to already more stats ! When I can increase a lot my crit chance and my power, and when I can deal mixed damages, celestial definitly become my best choice. I don’t care if I overstack might, because I especially want to stack it fast and to maintain 25 the longer !

The main combo : (Stab from Throw Elixir B or Juggernaut + ) Rifle 4 + Rifle 3 (while walking) + Rifle 5 on site + FT 2.
Everything else are very strong toys.

We have many things good and good and good and good and good and good, but we have nothing both essential and essential like GWEN, especially when space is expensive. You always add a mesmer for theirs uniques abilities and maybe a thief for ffa, even a ranger for the long range to snip necros, but then everything engi can bring is already in the rooster.

Specialization update removed healing bomb. We were not in the meta already, how could we be now ?

Arantheal is definitly right.

“I think it was the fastest camp flip I’ve ever made! It took me about 15-20s to kill all guards (except the guild claiming one, which took another 5)”

VS

“I can clear the camp taking less than 50% damage in under 3 minutes”

Steve Ballmer …

Minions can’t be killed and give perma protect/stab/resistance to you and your group.
Anet were tired of engineers asking for some good toys to replace Acidic Elixirs, Sitting Duck and Knee Shot.

180 is range, not degree.

Really nice, thank you for the share !

You should switch bomb before you pull. Because this is the highest direct damages + melee + aoe + spammable attack we have. You can take every camps with just bombs, most of the time by spamming 1, once you master the tactic.

In every camp, there is a spot where you can pull all mobs and turn around an obstacle or making back and forth around a corner. Mobs will spend more time walking to get you in line of sight than damaging you. And you start with aoe blind to limit the few first damages which may hurts. That’s it.

This is a good idea.
Some skills already remove specific conditions (like root, or root/snare/freeze). Sometime this is a secondary effect of a skill which have its own use.
If Anet don’t want to give more global condi purge, they could impart specific condi purge all around skills as secondary usages (even replace some old condi purge by several news), and this would also make the gameplay more intelligent !

Yeah this is a problem, we already had 25% of our skills unusuable in game mode with massive damages (wvw), and we will have even more.
We are not the only class with such skills, but I would had prefered a lot more an improvement which give an essential contribution to wvw since we are about non-existent in this game mode … While others which are already essential will be even more improved for wvw …

• The most satisfying sPvP Celectial Rifle (3 kits) :
  http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUh+sY7WwWLQ+FLsFF4IuBBQ4SdRvmYHVFPBA-TJhAwAH3f4/FAAwDAQcZAA
  Very balanced between direct damages (rifle 3+5, bob, eg 4, ft 2), conditions damages (mainly burnings, others as a very good bonus), a strong sustains, some controls and a good rotation. Good : strong in many to many fights. Defect : mainly melee oriented, and undergoes bomb range bug.

Tooltip and real effect is 180, only visual is 240.

You can compare the very edge of the area between mortar and bomb, on a golem. If half the golem is in the circle, mortar have an effect, bomb do not (except maybe glue bomb, no ?).

I agree this is the most problematic bug for engineers right now. And if it’s not a bug, then it’s another very huge nerf for the class.

For now, my celestial build for pvp looks like this :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUh+sY7WwWLQ7FLsFV4SdRvG4IuBBgYHVFPBA-TJxHAB1+AAUZ/BAuAAFVGAA

Burning is the new bleeding. If you really want to mix your damages, then what you want is a lot of burning. And in pvp a lot of burning sources is always better than a longer burning duration or a higher burning tick (we can cumulate all but here we just want the most effective).

I was angry against bombs because of their range, but I had to admit 4 pulses * 5 targets * 4 seconds burning, every 10s, is good. This + IP + FT is already enough to have a good output of condi damages.

All other conditions are not intended, but always come as a good bonus. Then everything else go in sustains and direct damages. That’s it.

I hesitated between Elixir X and Mortar, but I really hate rnd, and mortar is good to have a perfect rotation, never use any auto attack, and one more blinds field help to go in melee.

Ah, I spoke as a 100% pvp engineer.
Btw, we now know how there is still some happy guys here : pve is ok !

Realistics engineers left faster than every other classes since all our cool toys got broken so bad. Only the greatest dreamers and stubborns stays and looks positive at first, but deep in their hearth they are mainly desperates and frustated.

Thank you for all your answers. First, I just wanted to express my huge frustration somewhere, and when I came back on the forum I was sure people would had just taunt me back, but instead of this I could read very rich and clever discussions of both sides about the situation.

… The more I feel like trying to do miracles.

23 June patch definitly broke the class. Any time I try anything, I can’t stop to feel the need to go back to old clerical bomberheal or celestial rifle but ……….. I just can’t. Because the best thing Anet found to do about our class was to definitly burry it.

This stupid patch nerfed Engineer 2 times more than it did improved any other. The very few good choices we had simply disapeared, with no replacement at all. Others got new options, we got our only choices removed from the game.

Engineers sucks, this game sucks, Anet sucks.

Oh man, you are so right, as always, you obviously say the truth, you are so clever !

(this is the only way to deal with narsissistic people, give them the victory very fast, no point to discuss anything with them because they are CRAZY)

Oh I made you angry ? Poor little tiny thing. Btw, you should not make joke if you don’t want that people laught about you.
lol, Definitly.

Some people seems to not understand what does versatility means. If you need to rebuild between roles this is not versatility, if you are crap in every roles this is not versatility, if you just can do the unique same thing in many different ways this is still not versatility.

“If you think engineer is “crap” then you aren’t playing it right”

lol

“What we lost in versatility was mostly turrets and some CD reduction. Basically a bit of DPS.”

lol

At the begining, engineers could do very cool stuff everywhere. Then, engineers had only few uses, at some places. Now we have no use anywhere.
We can abuse our build to do few things, but we definitly have no speciality, neither any versatility. This is how we became the most crap class of the whole game with no identity at all, and the main problem come from this.

We are not really verstatiles, we can but then we are weak in every roles, unlike elems who can be good in everthing. We have no def, we can’t endure damages like necro/war, we can’t avoid/block them like ranger/thief/guard. We have many choice for damages, but then this is all we can do, single target damages, aoe damages, conditions or directs damages, debuff effects (blind, root, snare, freeze, bump, …), very scattered with no real logic, just a lot of switch and CD abuse.

Yeah, do something about this, or even remove it out of the game.
My Engineer POV.

PvP is just worth leaving

This won’t be a million words topic.

I don’t like when burst become the new supra meta. This is like to play with dices, and there is no point about this, especially in a game which banned healers.

Sorry but I definitly don’t understand where is the point in this, burst meta everywhere, no healers … Why ? Just … why ?

I left WvW because of this, and now I leave pvp and so the whole game because of this.

Explosives branch is really simple, and I don’t need a video to make my point about it.

1. Good if you play grenade
2. Good if you play some power or bombs
3. Good if you play mortar

The less you fit this 3 points, the more your choices meet poorly designed traits.

For now the radius match the tooltip.
So it’s not a bug, it’s a nerf.

1. Power is a really profitable stat, and when you switch to celestial, you lack a lot of power.

2. If you really want to take profit of celestial, then you really have to take profit of all stats. If you ignore two stats, then you are really wrong. Even if you ignore just one stat, you don’t take any profit out of celestial.

Vitality and Thoughness can always be good. You can appreciate Power/Precision/Ferocity, but your power will be really unbalanced. Then usually, the bonus come from conditions and healing power, but again, at the cost of power.

As an engineer, I switched to Celestial lately. Mainly because since the patch, I needed :
1. Precision+healing power, for the new trait “bunker down”.
2. Any damages
3. While I appreciate thoughness + vitality

This is not about our defense with thoughness/vitality, neither about our attack with power/ferocity/condition, this is more because we need this bridge between healing power and precision.

Also, you take celestial not because you take profit of all stats so it give you an advantage. You take celestial because you just NEED all stats. Even if celestial had the same total amount of stats than others, you would take it because you just need it … but then, this would be really unfair because your power would be really so low and unbalanced without any compensation.

Most engineers are still searching for their build, there isn’t any meta which emerged for now.

This is what is interresting about your ranking : since the patch, the class with the most obvious meta, the longer, the more stable, are at top.

Thief & Ranger may have something wrong, broken.
Most Engineer & Necro are still searching. Some found, when you meet them, you understand it.
Elem found a way.
Guardian & Warrior had an obvious build.
Mesmer may seems OP, or just wait for a balance from the missing class.

Oh … didn’t noticed it at all >.<
Thanks a lot for your short but very useful intervention !
With a such nerf, it would not be a big deal if both stack multiplicatively …

So, while both don’t stack, the design of Adrenal Implant & Optimized Activation in same branch is totally broken …

I play both kit but I never use nade/tar 1.

Hey, maybe what is missing is just our hammer spe ?
If engineer hammer have really a lot of blast (like : spammable every 2s MAX), then all this changes will definitly make sense !

Yamsandjams.3267:

Or they can just make optimized activation like it’s old version that just refunds a small amount of endurance back directly. That way it wouldn’t conflict with adrenal implant.

Don’t ask for this please … This would be a nerf.

They should make it stack with vigor, additionnally, which is not the case currently.
Without vigor, adrenal implant is one more dodge every 20s, so 3 dodges instead of 2.
Perma vigor is two more dodge every 20s, so 4 dodges instead of 2.
Perma vigor + adrenal implant should be three more dodge every 20s, so 5 dodges instead of 2.

This would be in the spirit of our class. Medium armor class + mid-range, need avoidance. Sometime I feel like ranger have a lot more of avoidance, while they are long-range ?

Well, it come both from surprise shot AND Optimized Activation. BTW, I just love my rifle turret now, because I understand the whole thing about how I felt more at ease with it than anything else instead.

Bump, water-blast, free attack which can make things procs even when I am cc or when I dodge, and now it also allow me to dodge a lot and take another grandmaster trait even if I fail it 50% of the time (instants casts should not consume Kinetic Battery >.<).

Once you spe tools, if you play rifle turret then adrenal implant lose a lot of interrest in your build. Because surprise shot give a strong basis of vigor uptime, and both don’t stack.

I will try to make the maths obvious …

If you just spam surprise shot each time its up, you already get 30% vigor uptime : Surprise shot recharge in 6.75s, and thanks to optimized activation, it give 2s of vigueur. So you get :
0.7 × 1 + 0.3 × 2 = 1.3 energy rate instead of 1

If you only consider this, then Adrenal Implant will give you :
0.7 × 1.5 + 0.3 × 2 = 1.65 energy
(which is not so bad for now)

But now, if you add the 4 others tool belt spell, at lets say (pessimistic) 32s average cd, then this is 25% more vigor uptime, so you get :
0.45 × 1 + 0.55 × 2 = 1.55 energy

And with Adrenal Implant :
0.45 × 1.5 + 0.55 × 2 = 1.775 energy

Last but not least, if you use rifle turret and also healing turret, you will mostly blast both every 25s maybe, this is 10% more vigor uptime :
0.35 × 1 + 0.65 × 2 = 1.65

And with Adrenal Implant :
0.35 × 1.5 + 0.65 × 2 = 1.825

This is just 10.6% more evades. You still get a bonus from it, but a bad one.

Now lets say you are also spe alchemy. Then you will get 2.4s of vigor from each tool belt instead of 2s. The maths become :

Surpise shot only : 1.36 / 1.68
+4 others tool belt skills : 1.66 / 1.83
+double blast : 1.848 / 1.92

4.1% more evades from a great master trait.

And one last thing, which will speak to people aware of theorycrafting, this is about initiative : Adrenal Implant is a permanent and constant bonus, like a dps, while Optimized Activation is a concentrated and controlled bonus, like a burst. When you are running a sprint (pvp) and not a marathon, a burst thingy is better than a dps thingy.

Summarize : Take care ! Kinetic Battery or Gadgeteer can become better option than Adrenal Implant by far, not because both are good, but because Adrenal Implant can become very crap if it meet conditions which improve a lot Optimized Activation.

@Depths :
The 10 seconds on AMR got fixed, you know, hello ?
Yes, this IS a real problem that gadgeeter break a 90s CD proc.

Yes, and now that AMR is 90s, this is a real problem.

Haters are gonna hate, but for a change, I will thanks Anet for this not so bad time to react.

Cleric Healing Bombs was one of the most reliable build I played in PvP/WvW. I am also missing it a lot. I can’t see any comparable build which can provide a basis of about 60k aoe damage per minute + 30k aoe heal per minute …
You could complete it with elixir pistol, regen, water-blasts HT to make it significant. Now we have better complements but no more basis to make this improvements reliables. Healing power multiplicators on engineer are back to their no interrest levels of about 2 years ago.

I prefer mortar by far with SD build, especially when traited, it provide what was missing until now : an almost free usefull switch.

1. It allow to precast ground control from very far before entering the fight
2. When you run out of CD, Mortar 1 is always better than rifle 1 (faster, stronger, aoe)
3. OS add strong aoe damages and double blast
4. It does help to support stomp

In 2.5s, you drop 3 fields, poison/blind/freeze which ticks every seconds, can 7 times.
Persistants fields with ticks were always much more valuables than instant hit of the same effect, because it continue to proc even when you are disabled or when you left the area, it provide ground control.

And this, this is good for any build, power, condi or any support thing. Because the main interrest come from effects, not damages. With nades, freeze&blind are an instant hit since forever.

Also, I understand miriforst answer, since he explain how the others elites have also new interrests, because you have to choose betweens elites, this is how he mitigate my own fervor about mortar. But mov, why do you ever feel the needs to compare nades to mortar while you can take BOTH, and cumulate theirs CDs ? (Instead of spam 1 with your nades when you run out of CDs, OMG)

And I will just recall that it also come with a 6s water field, which have a great use at least in WvW, and with a tool belt skill which can almost double the damages of barrage, and that both can at least auto-combo water-blast in all mode with all build.

Both are really great. When you take this + static discharge + air/fire sigil, you have sooooo many procs that damages isn’t a problem anymore !

How many time before every inge realize it ? How many time before everyone start to fear a nerf ? Except if we consider this as THE way Anet choose to fix the class.

Any build you choose, thanks to the new mortar, you can complete it with this :
- not so bad aoe direct damages, because of a very short cast time
- really great cc alte zones (poison blind freeze) to take back ground control
- very long range but also efficient in short range
- double blast from tool belt if traited, which allow precast and so improve autocombo, great damage also which allows nuker builds (FYI : + barrage + rocket)
- long water field (6s) if traited

When I saw it first, I though EMK would just be sometime useful in WvW zerg.
Now I think Mortar is half what inge will BE in WvW zerg, it provide the basis of what we love there : aoe, aoe, aoe, cc zones, cc zones, cc zones, water field, blast combo and direct damages.

It also work very very well in sPvP. Because ground control is still a very good thing there, and because you can now make a strong 1v1 build, while still being very versatile by just taking this as your elite skill. Any SD build (+ all new procs) + Mortar is OP !

@Franke:
The build you present is also a nice one ! I really appreciate the fact you presented it as a similar build, because it show how much we share the same understanding beside our many differences :
(Rifle + Rifled Barrels) + (FT + Deadly Mixture) + zerk stats.
This is our common basis. All the differences between our builds only show how much we both understood how Rifle can effectively combine with FT, and open the door to additionals synergies.

We both look at the short CD blast finisher on FT 2 (and you built a synergy out of Elixir Gun, with reduced CD on both), and we try to rentabilize our tool belt with reduced CD, while taking profit of leg mods which is especially efficient in WvW.

We especially search for mobility/sustains/escapes to validate our zerks stats.

The purpose is not to spam FT 1 the whole time on the opponent MT. This is how retaliation is not a problem.

About mobility, you use it when you need, it allow to go easier and faster where it is preferable to be. This is really strange to hear “If I move easier, i will go where I shouldn’t go”. Use instead your mobility to leave a such place !

Damage with FT 1 are not low at all. It does 61.6% of bomb 1 damages, if you just change the 4 points in alchemy to explosive, and just looking at directs damages. This is lower in theory. But in practice, bomb 1 have a very lower range and a delay to explode, which make them imprecises and force you to enter the melee. You take more risk, and so more defensives stats/traits which also lower your damage, but you still don’t hit each time. It is a lot easier with FT to maintains a damage flow on anything.

When you can go melee, then you can use the rifle 3 & 5 + FT 2. In pratice, this is enough to take profit of any opened melee window, and then concentrate the damages.

As I tried to explain, the principle is to adapt your weapon to your best range at a moment, and not the opposite. If you just want a monogameplay build, which mainly always spam something 1 while sticking others, then this one is obviously not for you
I already played everything in WvW, but now I know that if all I want to do is damages, then this build is what do the more in practice. Because high damages on the paper are worth nothing if you rarelly have the comfort to make them real in pratice.

Thank you very much, even if it’s not my own subject, your councils are very much appreciated, and as you may have spend few time to write it the least I could do was to sincerely thank you !

Jan Merunka.1724:

Dear Enginners. I have read many information about your dissapoitment with granades nerf and i have watched some videos in which granades were used. Please tell, what wrong on -30% dmg if you can hit for 10K dmg and my elementalist can do maximum dmg about 5K. I think im average skilled player, but i cannot match dmg you can reach with them . I dont care about dps meter just want to know why are you so angry with that. We want to play this great game and enjoy fun. It doesn matter who can deal higher dps but first compare with other profession and they can speak. Now its ball in your camp, please tell me what so wrong about this nerf please.

10k, Lol.