I don’t feel the RNG is bad itself … it’s what you get from it that seems meaningless. For example, I wouldn’t want rare loot falling like rain on me but when I would get a rare, I would hope it would be aligned to my class, my needs and even my preferred build stats.
If a player could set some of these parameters on a character, RNG could give drops more appealing to the player by virtue of how useful they would be. I think recent decision to align some fraction of the armor drops to your class was a good one. That idea could be expanded.
ON the other hand, what drops endgame are irrelevant for most players (unless it’s a precursor of course) … the builds are crafted and purchased, rarely obtained through loot.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Improvements to non-medi builds … there might be hope yet.
People aren’t seeing the benefit of MF because they are being selective in their assessment. Over time, higher MF does yield more equivalent gold relative to a lower MF. If your complaint is that MF doesn’t affect loot because of the content you play, that’s hardly an issue … Anet doesn’t force you to play in a way that ensures MF is getting you the highest benefit. That choice is from the player.
What might be more reasonable … perhaps MF COULD be more widely applicable, especially for opening bags.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think my point is: we already HAD that situation with Karma. Frankly, a token situation that isn’t the ‘SWTOR’ situation is almost not even worth the effort to implement. Specialized currencies = grind in general. I think that’s what the RNG attempts to circumvent: Getting lucky = less grinding. I think the trick is to make it so that if you gamble with RNG, the payback is better than simply grinding out currency. Unfortunately, somehow, that doesn’t appear to be the way it works in GW2, unless I’m perceptively challenged on that observation.
I just want magic find to make a difference.
Magic find makes a huge difference.
I think he meant a meaningful difference. I’m sure across the board there are noticeable differences, but as a single player I don’t notice anything.
It sucks when you use magic find booster, birthday booster and food etc. to boost your magic find and not run into a single exotic.
I’ve ran down entire 24 hour birthday boosters without a single exotic drop.
That’s simply a perception issue … that only a player can change. Birthday booster didn’t guarantee exotic drops. It’s the same argument that JS referred to as this clustering phenomenon. Based on other players experiences AND the confirmation from JS, MF does work.
The system that the discussions are tending to support are starting to look more and more like SWTOR commendations … farm your comms, purchase WHATEVER loot you want with them. If such a thing were implemented in GW2, I fear it would just turn into another ’Plix karma farm" event chain that would eventually need nerfing.
OPtion 2 sounds great but the dependent factor to see if someone should get a loot ‘bump’ can’t be time or even time played. Perhaps it’s number of missed looting chances, further dependent on the difficulty of the mob? To implement something like this, a loot parameter would have to be tracked per character. You also have the complexity of a factor Anet already has to give bonus loot to people; Magic Find. That could also be another way to ‘bump’ a player that has been unlucky.
I think the point is that this isn’t a problem with the game’s mechanics … it’s just a perception people have when they sample a very small subset of space where a cluster occurs. The RNG doesn’t ensure anti-clustering … it simply does it’s best to give out a random number.
Anecdotally, If I understand correctly, it’s actually not easy to create an algorithm for truly random number generation because many of those algorithms require a first seed number. There might be other methods but I suspect complexity and operations increases significantly.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
It would be great if there was any optimal gear variety at all for PVE. I could care less what it is at this point. Unfortunately, as this game continues to dumb itself down for new players, I can only think that the single optimal gearset will be further reinforced so new players aren’t ‘confused’ over all the choices they have for stats.
This might sound like Libertarian claptrap, but any price a fair, free market agrees upon is the correct price.
You were right the first time, not so much the second.
If there is a seller willing to pay a price a buyer wants, then there isn’t a problem with pricing. In fact, there isn’t even a problem with pricing if there AREN’T any buyers that want the goods at the prices the seller wants. That’s an indicator to sellers. Same is true to sellers when they price to low. The difference between fast and slow sitting sellers is what makes all this market stuff ‘work’. These factors creates the fair, free market. I’m not sure what background you have, but economics sure isn’kitten
(edited by Obtena.7952)
So after a month we can conclude Penguin is a troll. Apparently the forum police don’t take action on white knights.
Or another conclusion … Anet simply allows meaningful debate.
Yes the Legendary one is still a problem for a lot of players.
And still, it’s not a problem Anet needs to intervene into because it’s a personal problem for a player. Anet has provided the capability for EVERYONE to get a legendary weapon. That’s all they need to do. The drop rates reflect the concept of what it means to own a legendary. It’s not some strange accident .. it’s INTENDED.
Again, IF their goal is to make legendaries a super rare, long term goal, then that’s fine, but they need to do it in such a way that the “long term” element of it does not translate to “collecting massive amounts of gold at a rate that is faster than the general inflation of the Precursor markets.”
You’re putting the horse before the cart. The prices are determined by supply and demand. Anet is not needed to affect the pricing. The pricing is competitive, so the market is actually working as it should be. If prices were too high, sellers lower to make a sale at t a level accessible to the next willing buyer … someone as versed as you in the markets should know that.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
What’s with all this hatred towards complex and challenging content? Are the people against raids even interested in the core game mechanics?
I for one would love to have raids if they are built properly. New activities, mechanics, and levels of challenge are always something I look forward to.
I think there is a fallacy here … raids don’t necessarily equate to complex or challenging content. The same argument is for dungeons. That could be challenging content if it’s designed properly as well, but it’s not for many people. Raids are simply more complex and with greater risk of being able to zerg them. Frankly, I don’t even see how a raid is going to be different from guild missions/Teq/worms/Jormag. Really, it’s a large group of people all attacking a mob with some kind of ‘do this at this time’ mechanic to make people pay attention. We don’t even have trinity, so from a roles perspective, raids are just a zerg of people doing damage. I think there are going to be many disappointments if raids are implemented in this game.
If legendaries are working as intended then I 100% disagree with their basic design principles. They were designed with an achievement for getting all 14, one that in the current model is impossible without spending tens of thousands of gold, and that’s IF you acquire all the non-TP elements yourself. That is not a “reasonable long term goal,” that is nonsense.
And that’s where you’re posts fail. You think Anet is so far off there intention with legendaries that their going to launch into a 180 and reverse the gears here? Not even a CHANCE. You say they willfully make changes that impact markets … it’s more like they begrudgingly make those changes. Market stability is something they make a priority; they aim to minimize the collateral damage of changes to the game on markets. If that wasn’t the case, they wouldn’t have a PhD economist on their staff. It’s why they aren’t going to ‘simply’ increase drop rates either.
Just because there is an achievement for all 14 doesn’t mean Anet intends for everyone to be able to get that achievement. lt’s the same argument for achievements for storylines that were temporary.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
The suggestions you got give you diversity. Just use some other armor if you don’t want to use zerker. If you can’t suggest whatever diversity you are looking for, then the suggestions are just as vague as the request.
I think it’s actually pretty obvious. If you want a healing build, you use armor iwith heal stat. If you want burning, something with condition damage. Game isn’t that complex. Figure out what you want to do, the armor to do it probably exists. GW2 Wiki gives a great rundown of what all the armors are and the stats they give.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
if their goal is to have a mostly player driven economy, then they would want to give players a greater control over the supply.
Perhaps, but I don’t think being pedantic about labeling the economy in some fashion proves any point, so who cares? It works. People can buy and sell stuff and set pricing how they want. Call it whatever you want. It’s what we have.
any item that adapts poorly to demand opens up the possibility of being extremely unstable in price.
This is why the range on an item of similar rarity, is 85 gold to 1450 (rage compared to dusk) because the supply is too high on rage, and too low on dusk, even though they are supposed to be in the same family of rarity.
If they are unstable, I don’t see a problem with it for precursors considering Anet is targeting its ownership to a very limited number of players. Rarity is not what drives the price of these items or the range between them even though they are the same rarity. It’s completely supply/demand driven. People want dusk more than rage, hence the price difference. People have collected many stats on this. They drop at close the same rate. Rarity is not a differentiating factor between the price for these items.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Ohoni doesn’t seem to want to accept that a precursors are designed to be the barrier to getting a legendary, and because of this THOUGHTFUL design decision, it shouldn’t adapt at all to high demand. There seems to be a fundamental denial around these items; what they mean and what kind of player can own one.
I dare say it is not thoughtful at all, rather the easy way out that didn’t require much thought. If it were thoughtful you’d think they would come up with a system that had more to do with actually being rewarding to players.
I’m talking about the intelligence necessary to limit the number of a crafted item ingame by limiting a material specific to the crafting of that item and only that item. That is the only sensible approach and whether intended or not, it’s what is happening.
I’m not talking about how players are rewarded.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
There are a number of problems in general with Raids, but the number one issue that will happen is Elitist;Exclusive mentality that seems to always accompany high-end content. Most people won’t do hard content for the sake of doing the content. They need rewards. Rewards good enough to keep people coming back to the content. Can’t just hand the rewards out to everyone, or they’ll just do the content once and quit. So you have difficult content that rewards the few. While those rewards may be limited to a few at first, it won’t take long before that wonderful “Gear-check” attitude creeps everywhere else. Have X this or Y that.. if not… GTFO. While an area of the game to shove those same elitist wannabes sounds good, their attitude is a dangerous virus that could easily lead this game further down the path it promised (lied) not to go before launch.
Raids can stay the heck out of the game. There are way too many ways they can go wrong, from scaling to rewards to time-sink requirements. Do we really need another game that requires 3/4 of the free time you have to complete one piece of one encounter? Do you really think they learned anything from the disastrous Wildstar “Go Gold or Quit” fiasco?
I have to agree. I can’t say that any game I’ve played with raids didn’t cater to the most elite players and unless I’m mistaken, this game is about inclusion for all kinds of players, not catering to any single level of skill. This game will succeed if it continues to find ways to bring everyone together. Raid content has never done that well.
There really isn’t much more to it. The builds don’t really change, unless you want to be more specific about what you actually want to do. If you can survive and use zerker, why wouldn’t you? If you just want to be different, at least tell us what kind of different you want to be.
ANet has shown a willingness to destabilize the economy on numerous occasions, this is no different. For the most part, if they do the changes carefully, only a very tiny portion of the market would actually shift, and the portion that nobody has any sympathy for, those who can afford to buy and sell precursors for an attempted profit.
Found the quote I was looking for:
Destabalizing the economy is something Anet obviously takes very seriously and likely avoids if necessary, taking pains to minimizing or at least understand the impact and change has on it. This legendary business is probably one of the most significant aspects of the economy when JS refers to permanent content in that post. Your suggestion is the opposite direction to what is being described by JS and that’s why it’s comical.
Primarily ohoni is saying that the supply of high demand precursors is too inelastic and doesnt adapt well to high demand.
As well as saying its method of aquisition is too much of a moving target/uncertain.
Ohoni doesn’t seem to want to accept that a precursors are designed to be the barrier to getting a legendary, and because of this THOUGHTFUL design decision, it shouldn’t adapt at all to high demand. There seems to be a fundamental denial around these items; what they mean and what kind of player can own one.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Sticky this already. It’s basically a go-to of answers for recurring themes and concerns of the playerbase.
If people stopped pretending WvW or PVP was a duel, none of this would matter. If something counters something else, play smarter. Carry on.
Just take any build and use something not zerker.
That should tell you something right there. Anet is not willing to destabilize the economy this much.
ANet has shown a willingness to destabilize the economy on numerous occasions, this is no different. For the most part, if they do the changes carefully, only a very tiny portion of the market would actually shift, and the portion that nobody has any sympathy for, those who can afford to buy and sell precursors for an attempted profit.
Introduction of more mats for increased legendaries affects way more items including items that everyone uses.
No, the price would remain the same. Anyone using those mats to produce anything that isn’t a Legendary would see no difference in their day to day experience.
These are just ignorant statements. You have no idea how the change will affect markets; at least no more so than the people with the data who monitor it.
The things you mentioned previously are isolated, so when they introduced them, they didn’t affect anything but the singular categories; e.g. introduction of dyes, only affects dye prices.
I am on the side of precursors keeping the status quo, but this statement is untrue. The dye change had an effect on the cooking material market. I made a lot of gold off truffles as well as mint.
Those are isolated markets. T6 materials are not.
Someone should sticky JS’s previous responses to these ridiculous threads.
I dont think the example that the OP is bringing up is very relevant. He basically had to drag his girlfriend into playing gw2, he even had to buy the game for her. I bet that after 20 hours of playing the game she will get bored and stop playing, and no matter what changes you recommend that wont make her hold more attention to the game.
The game should catter to people that are interested in playing it, if you buy a game you should do a little research about what you are buying before spending money on it, and not expect to be hand-holded all the way through the game.
So, basically she doesnt know how mmos work, didnt even bother in buying a copy herself and after only a few hours she felt overwhelmed by everything the game has to offer so lets dumb down the game even more so more and more people that dont give a kitten about the game can complain less until they reach lvl 80 and get bored anyway.
QFT
Catering to those that aren’t going to hang around anyways makes me think they don’t want the kind of players that will end up staying for the long haul. I could understand making the starter zones in to proper tutorials to explain some of the things like dodging and combo fields that are completely different than other MMOs. The changes they did do though show a total disconnect from the playerbase.
The biggest issue I have with the NPE. I don’t see Anet doing a good job balancing between what old players expect and holding hands of the new players. The NPE is a completely different one than when the game was first released. I don’t mind tweaks (added message pop-ups, restrictions to skills via progression) to help new players. I do mind being told that players are so overwhelmed that they can’t access basic weapon skills until later levels.
If Anet is looking to appeal to the kind of player that isn’t capable of figuring out the most basic of concepts of an MMO, then I think this is an indicator of the level of intelligence needed to do future content they are planning. Don’t dumb the start so much that you get a bunch of vegetables running around at level 80 that can’t do the harder stuff.
Honestly, if this is the future state of the NPE, let me purchase a premade to level 40 or even 80.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
The odds were bad two years ago, they are still bad now. They should have been better two years ago, they should be better now. They discussed adding Precursor crafting/questing over a year ago. . .still nothing in game.
That should tell you something right there. Anet is not willing to destabilize the economy this much. The things you mentioned previously are isolated, so when they introduced them, they didn’t affect anything but the singular categories; e.g. introduction of dyes, only affects dye prices. Introduction of more mats for increased legendaries affects way more items including items that everyone uses. Even if they only increase it to satisfy the increased need, it’s not a change they can simply monitor and adjust as needed because of all the interactions and uses these mats have.
… and I would have thought someone so versed in the market would understand that.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
We’ve discussed this ad infinitum, obviously if they increased precursor drop rates they would need to either increase the supply of other Legenary mats, or reduce the amount needed.
This is where you are deluded … no, they would NOT have to do this and it’s exactly the reason it’s unlikely for them to change precursor drop rates. It serves no purpose for the good of the game to change anything except for the odd correction to keep specific mats inline with reasonable price targets. Anet isn’t after giving out easy legendaries … they clearly value stability in their markets.
You think suggestions to simply increase everything to the point of flooding the market simply to provide people with legendaries is reasonable. I can’t understand why considering the current state of the game. Anet just isn’t that impressionable and obviously want some level of difficulty to obtain this class of items. Suggesting what is amount to making it easier to obtain legendaries is ridiculous in this context, especially when it amounts to a minor impact on the overall game for a significant effect on the market.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I guess you never watched the teaser before GW2 was released……………
This was for me like for many GW1 vets THE reason to buy the game.
I think that’s just a misinterpretation on your part then. If that single line was your motivation to buy this game, you simply weren’t a very informed consumer. This teaser video wasn’t the only source of information about GW2 before it was released either.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
When suggestions pop up for things like “open world PvP” or “remove all waypoints, then add mounts” . . . no, I’m still going to respond with that statement. Because this game is clearly not the one they’re looking for.
But we get the same reactions when we request features in GW1 that are absolutely missing or lacking in GW2 …
Rightly so because “being a feature in GW1” doesn’t give any validity to the idea those same concepts should be in GW2.
After two years, it’s not hard to see what kind of game they want to deliver to the market. Most of the suggestions are obviously not inline with the direction the game is going. Yes, it’s tiring seeing people suggest things that aren’t inline with the game, just because of some poorly thought out reasons.
There tend to be two kinds of changes that get implemented: Changes that match what the devs want to see to realize the game they envision and Changes that they feel are overall beneficial to the game. People should think about that when make their suggestions. Ideas like “it’s in GW1” isn’t necessarily beneficial to a game that isn’t GW1 or that the devs don’t want to make into GW1. In fact, it’s one of the more stupid justifications I read here.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
They might be able to steer it but no one has yet given a reason why they should expend the time or effort to do so when it works the way they intend it.
Maybe Anet can make it so you can donate gold to the WWF? Start a campaign to save online animal avatars before they become extinct? Does that help?
The game didn’t used to be about that though. …. the store was simply a novelty added on top, which provided additional income.
You can’t be more wrong. The store wasn’t just added on top for some additional income. This game would have been shut down from launch day if it only relied on box sales for income because that’s not a sustainable business model. Roughly … box sales paid for the initial development until release. The store was intended to be there from the beginning as a long term revenue generator.
You can delude yourself all you want about how game are more artistic expressions than part of a business. In the end, the game exists not because it’s an exceptional work of art; it exists because it makes investors money.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
It’s not a problem, you just don’t realize what this game is really all about. It’s not here to provide you entertainment. It’s here to make money.
The content in the game is fashioned around the gemstore, not the other way around. If that’s a problem for you, you shouldn’t be playing games with that business model.
Maybe this new skin is meant to Panda to the Chinese crowd.
Pick doesn’t allow people to collect as many as they want. TP does though.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Next step – Auto Attack and /afk. Don’t want to overwhelm the new players with actually having to attend their keyboards while playing.
I’m disappointed … I was hoping for more features that played the game for me since Anet thinks so little of mine and other players’ capabilities. I guess I will have to wait for the next feature pack.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
This video actually sums up what I was thinking too. These changes are actually INSULTING to any player.
Ah, it’s cute … it’s like he’s giving you a bear hug.
ANet has went too far; they want to appeal to players they lost because the game was ‘hard’ … now they assume everyone is too stupid to give them the opportunity to experience everything the game has to offer until you reach mid game level. Anet, I think you just screwed yourself pretty bad.
1. Why would any veteran player want to experience this new system?
2. How does locking up interesting features make the game easier or more interesting for new players?
I think the answer in both cases will be … they wont and it doesn’t.
It’s time people’s kids learned life isn’t fair … your’s got an early start. Gratz.
You got the phrase wrong. We vote with our wallets. We can “stay here” and voice whatever we want for as long as we want and there’s nothing you can point to in a logic argument that removes that reality because access to the forum was Buy-to-Play.
I don’t think you understood my point … nothing makes more of a statement than leaving. I have no problem with people having issue with the game and speaking out but the most significant impact to Anet is people playing the game vs. not playing it.
Flame Jet (1) : The biggest problem for this skill is that its hitting 10 times in one channel. This is a huge problem in wvw because it will proc retalition like crazy. So basicly you hit 50 times and proc 50x retalion just by one auto attack. That is at least 10k damage to us! This is absolutely crazy and no other skill in the game punishes its user like this.
No other feature in the game rewards a user that well either … it procs the hell out of any crit or on hit effects to the point where the crit chance is pretty much irrelevant. Double Edge sword, use with caution. It’s actually a smart implementation … makes you THINK about how and when it should used, not just drooling on the #1 key like a monkey. Probably one of the MOST thoughful implementations Anet has made for a weapon.
The ‘solution’ here is to swap to a weapon where retaliation is less effective.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I would love to see the self centered aspect of the guardian developed as much as the supportive aspect has been. Of course, I’m not sure that really vibes with the concept of Guardian, even outside of GW2. Even so, I’m certainly not interested in seeing meditations boosted any more than tomorrow’s patch would allow.
The whole concept of the class has always been a bit limiting in a game where everyone already has the defensive tools they need for anything but the most difficult encounters. I wouldn’t object to a mode of play where it’s EITHER support OR selfish buffing, but not both.
Apology from Anet will look like this:
“We are sorry this game doesn’t attract smarter players.”
But it’s not something he could foresee. Take for example Anet made legendary into a skin, and many people have been screwed to make two of the same legendary. (eventhough they are later rewarded with a title….)
That’s simply not something people could forsee.
I’m referring to the level of intelligence that tells you “Oh, this isn’t worth QQing about .,.. especially 5 months later”. Stuff in MMO’s change … IIRC, we were warned about the change. Get over it.
Apology from Anet will look like this:
“We are sorry this game doesn’t attract smarter players.”
Really? Wardrobe was one of the best changes in GW2 so far. Oh well. BYE!