Guild Wars 2

Devata.6589:

Who is talking about 100 raids or get tokens (that btw already is in GW2, but is NOT directly rewarding specific content for specific content). Besides why the dislike?

I’m talking about it … you’re suggesting a raiding-for-reward system could solve grinding. Loot from raids is a delicate balance and frankly, just another player-subjective assessment like grinding is. Therefore, it’s not better than what we have now; if you have to raid too much, it’s a worse grind than doing whatever content you want for loot. If you have to raid too little for loot, then the reward is not there. What is too little or much is just player perception.

Devata.6589:

“I didn’t know hats and titles were considered BiS items. >< I think you’re just trolling me now.” The hat was gear with good stats. All the other where not indeed. That was the point.. People there where there for the cosmetics.. not for the stats. While you said “The general trend is that players grind for BiS”. As if that is what people are most interested in. Well that example did show that is not the case. There are also many people more interested in cosmetic stuff then in BiS stuff.

That’s a good story but it doesn’t mean my statement is nonsense. Just because Wow give out an item with good stats once doesn’t mean that generally, you don’t grind for BiS in MMO’s. I know for some people MMO = WoW because theie experience is limited but the MMO industry has much more to offer.

Devata.6589:

“Gold or items, it’s the SAME THING with the exception that you can only get raid-won items from a specific raid. Gold can be obtained anywhere.”
That exception is what makes the gold way so boring, devaluates that reward so much (an item you can simply buy after some brainless grind does not have the same value as an item rewarded for challeging content) and does not give the thrill of ‘will it drop’ in case of RNG but in stead just a boring number (gold) slowly going up to the point where you can then buy the item.
It is also what causes the trend of grinding whatever rewards the best gold in stead of sending you over the world to do all types of content.

Means to the end or ends to the mean? Yes there is a drawback for trending to best rewards content but the alternative is no better IMO because at least players have choice and I believe that’s what casual players want to do; choose what content they do with their limited game time.

Again, this all comes back to who this game is trying to appeal to. If you want to appeal to casual players as a developer, your NOT focused on putting in stupid crap like timed raids that you need to do 100 times with RNG loot to get one item; that’s an extreme example but I feel that’s where people are wishing this game would go. Forget it because it’s been tried and it sucks huge floppies for casual people.

The gold standard, the time gates, the low-quality gear balancing in dungeons, play-how-you-want philosophy … it couldn’t be more clear for whom this game is made to attract.

Blade Syphon.4325:

Because right now, yes, getting Ascended Armor is either a very expensive endeavor, or a very long grind of doing the same mundane tasks to get the materials needed to make the armor. Hiding behind the arugment of “But we have more then one way to get those materials” doesn’t work either, as like I said before those other methods are either just as repetitive (replacing World Boss grinding with Guild Mission grinding for Dragonite Ore, as an example) or so unrewarding (PvP Tracks), that there’s very little reason to actually do it.

OK but that’s inventing your own definition of what grinding is so of course you conclude you have to grind. The relevant one is from Anet’s perspective because they design the game. If your definition of grind includes multiple methods to be done to get the mats then no reasonable content can be devised to ensure you don’t think the game will be a grind for ascended gear. Literally, Anet would have to devise content for EVERY instance of need some portion of the mats you need to satisfy an extreme definition of no grinding. I think we can agree that would be insurmountable.

Devata.6589:

Yeah so again, rewarding rewards for specific content might be the solution.

Please, no. This is quite possibly the worst solution we have EVER seen, already demonstrated in many existing MMO’s. If you think GW2 is grindy, just wait until you need 100 raids of something to ‘win loot’ or ‘get tokens’ to buy things (Nightmares of Anarchy Online all over again). People aren’t thinking of what they are asking for here. These ideas are a huge step backward in the evolution of the industry.

Devata.6589:

“The general trend is that players grind for BiS” What a complete nonsense. Lets use a game that known for it so called gear grind.. WoW. What did wow do for it’s 19th anniversary. It gave everybody who logged in a mini (cosmetic), and it opened a PvP map that rewarded a title (not gear) and it opened a raid that rewarded two things. A mount (cosmetic, it was a ground mount so stat wise not much) but it also rewarded a hat piece stats. No guess what all those people care about.. the mount or the hat?

I’m made a general statement that games make you grind for BiS and you refute that by talking about an EXCEPTIONAL case in WoW gave out some hats and a title once upon a time? I didn’t know hats and titles were considered BiS items. >< I think you’re just trolling me now.

Devata.6589:

That worked in the long run but eventually people start leaving because buying and grinding gold for those items simply is not fun.

BUT … those people are going to stay in a game if they do repeated raids to get things, which is what you are suggesting could be a solution? You need to take a step back and THINK about what you are talking about here. Gold or items, it’s the SAME THING with the exception that you can only get raid-won items from a specific raid. Gold can be obtained anywhere.

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

morrolan.9608:

slamfunction.7462:

“Grinding” is perception. You can get a majority of the materials you need for ascended armor, just by going through each of the maps on your toons or even doing the LS content.

No you can’t, not due to the sheer volume required. To get the mats in any sort of timeframe requires grinding for the mats and gold.

You’re confusing grinding with farming. Not the same thing. Grinding would be doing the SAME thing to get gold and mats. Anet has fixed that; you can do ANYTHING to give you gold and mats.

yeah and somethings will take you 2-10 times as much time to achieve the same goal.

illusions of choice are not real choices.

I would argue that is less relevant to the guy who’s not dedicating too much time to the game or doesn’t care about their time spent in game, simply because they like playing it. These are the same people I believe the game is targeted to. I don’t care what MMO you want to talk about. The general trend is that players grind for BiS, or get really lucky. The thing that makes GW2 stand out from this trend:

1. You don’t need BiS everywhere to compete, even in WvW. There are exceptions to that but those are due to player choice or even POSITIVE implementations (Ascended trinkets are rather easy to get for anyone)
2. You don’t need to repeat the same content over and over to achieve gear or cosmetic goals. That’s a significant departure from MANY games. You can argue that some things will take longer so you pick the fastest one; that’s a GOOD thing. It means if you DO burn out on a specific content, you can try something else and still move forward with your goals. How that isn’t seen as a positive is beyond my comprehension.

It’s not that the game is grindy that people should really complain about. It’s that Anet has tied everything to a gold standard and targeted a larger demographic of average players.

Vix.6730:

Obtena.7952:

It’s a little premature to claim it’s a small expansion without seeing the content.

Colin has already stated in the Pax announcement we are getting one region comprised of three layers. Playable content wise, the release will be small.

You don’t know what the content is. You can’t make this assumption. You’re “Jump to conclusions” mat needs more options.

morrolan.9608:

slamfunction.7462:

“Grinding” is perception. You can get a majority of the materials you need for ascended armor, just by going through each of the maps on your toons or even doing the LS content.

No you can’t, not due to the sheer volume required. To get the mats in any sort of timeframe requires grinding for the mats and gold.

You’re confusing grinding with farming. Not the same thing. Grinding would be doing the SAME thing to get gold and mats. Anet has fixed that; you can do ANYTHING to give you gold and mats.

Devata.6589:

“They also need to consider Anet’s definition” Why? If Anet says ‘well we are not going to have x type of grind’ people are not allowed to say ‘thats great but I (still) dislike y type of grind’? Sure they can.

That’s not the argument here … the argument is IF the game is grindy according to Anet’s definition. It’s clearly not. People can complain about certain kind of grind, but I haven’t seen anyone demonstrate there is a massive portion of the game that goes against the definition that Anet has for it.

Devata.6589:

“Finally, they have to consider the target market of this game; it’s the casual player market and grindy activities are NOT endearing to those people.” Indeed, and what do you think ‘casual players’ might be more interested in?

I could venture a guess, but I don’t see the relevance. Casual players don’t like grinding content, period. The game is targetted at those players. It wouldn’t exist after 2 years if the game didn’t give casual players the experience they are after.

Devata.6589:

“YOu don’t need to look too far to convince yourself this game is pretty successful with the casual players” Yeah and they have also been losing a lot of players, income has been dropping since release so maybe, just maybe this has something to do with what just said?

Maybe, maybe not. You don’t know the cause of those things; it’s probably not the grindy nature of the game, since the game isn’t.

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Nothing .. those are content meant for many teams, not a single team. The content you mentioned isn’t balanced around gear, it’s balanced around co-operation and player volume; those are RAID content, not instanced (re. dungeon/fractals) content.

Point still stands … in the industry, GW2 is not grindy by traditional definitions. Maybe in 10 years it might be considered so, but for now, only the most noob players would QQ about grindy GW2.

If you have no real arguments just start naming people you disagree with ‘Noobs’.

Not to mention that those ‘noobs’ are asking for something more interesting than the grind there is now. The defenders seem to like the brainless grind (or are not interested in the collecting (also mention as one of the important things for GW2 in the presentation!) those thing). So now wanting challenging content makes you a noob? But being fine with brainless grinding makes you a pro?

Makes sense!

My real argument is that people need a minimum perspective to be able to comment about what grind really is. They also need to consider Anet’s definition, which is genuine and realistic. Finally, they have to consider the target market of this game; it’s the casual player market and grindy activities are NOT endearing to those people. YOu don’t need to look too far to convince yourself this game is pretty successful with the casual players, indicating that the things they want to see and appeal to them, the game does deliver.

It offends you that I label those people as noobs? Too bad; that’s what people QQIng about grind tend to be because they have little MMO gaming experience. Real game vets would think this game is a joke in terms of grind level. It’s targeted at the casual player market an enables that level of player to obtain gear they can compete in very easily by simply BUYING it. To boot, you can get gear with karma, or gold you earn, or gold you got with gem exchange. Seriously, perspective, get some.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Gene Archer.8560:

Obtena.7952:

Nothing .. those are content meant for many teams. Point still stands … in the industry, GW2 is not grindy by traditional definitions. Maybe in 10 years it might be considered so, but for now, only the most noob players would QQ about grindy GW2.

You said people were soloing content meant for teams. I asked you who was soloing the raids. You said noone, cause those are meant for teams.

Sooo…which is it, then? Either people are soloing team content or they aren’t.

Funny, though, casue this game looks like every other MMO on the market to me in terms of grind and RNG, especially with ascended gear.

And I’m not a noob, so looks like you’re wrong.

You are comparing 5 man dungeons with raids dude that is not fair. If you want comapre 5 man dungeons with content from other games than compare them with 5 man dungeons from these games and hey! As a tank (paladin) I soloed bunch of 5 man heroics in epic ascended gear when they were relevant.

Exactly. The kind of experience you get from a teamed content vs. many teams content is VERY different and not comparable. The fact is neither are balanced around gear that needs to be ‘ground’ for in GW2 so the argument is rather academic.

I guess you’re experience is simply too limited to have sufficient perspective to speak on the topic then. You are aware that MMO’s have been around since mid 90’s? If you simply compare GW2 to what exists right now, then you don’t have a very relevant baseline. Without that history, then it’s clear why people don’t understand Anet’s statement and fluff it off.

Play a game where it takes 1000’s of hours to max out a character, then come back here and realize how very ridiculous the complaints are. Hell, people can BUY most of the stuff in this game with RL money. How much more carebear do you want it?

Nothing .. those are content meant for many teams, not a single team. The content you mentioned isn’t balanced around gear, it’s balanced around co-operation and player volume; those are RAID content, not instanced (re. dungeon/fractals) content.

Point still stands … in the industry, GW2 is not grindy by traditional definitions. Maybe in 10 years it might be considered so, but for now, only the most noob players would QQ about grindy GW2.

It’s a little premature to claim it’s a small expansion without seeing the content.

Gene Archer.8560:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

As long as raids don’t have agony we will be fine.

You forget the stat boost. 5% is 5%. The moment raids are geared to ascended, that means that exotic gear is 5% less efficient.

Good thing we have a long way to go then because current raids aren’t even geared to exotics. When people solo content meant for teams … you know the bar in the game is set pretty low.

Lots of people associating need with want in this thread. The guy that separated farming from grinding got it right on the money. Really, the problem is that grinding is just a subjective term; the second someone perceives they have to get something by doing the same thing TOO many times, it’s a grind to them.

I have no doubt that Anet top brass know their industry and its history so their statement about the lack of grind in GW2 is quite genuine. I have noticed that as MMO’s evolve, they do get less grindy so when I see people complain … I just chuckle a bit. For example, just for a jaunt down memory lane … anyone here ever level to 220/70/30 in Anarchy Online? I doubt any that have will QQ about the ‘grind’ in GW2.

I would like to think people would level the regular way. It’s supposed to be a fun experience learning a new class. Admittedly, I will be using a boost to get to 20, THEN leveling.

I think the main problem here is that people do know the difference between farming and grinding, they are just being obtuse to find an argument to prove Anet is the worst MMO developer ever.

Zero Day.2594:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Zero Day.2594:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

With no grind, they mean no mandatory grind. There is no gear threadmill.
You don’t have to grind in order to keep up. All the grind in this game is just for cosmetics. Sure there is ascended, but that’s only like 5% better than exotic so you don’t really need it.

So is there grind for just cosmetics or cosmetics and stats?
5% is 5%, it’s there, it exists, you can’t deny it. You can choose to ignore it, convince yourself it’s not needed, attempt to convince others it’s not needed, but the fact of the matter remains, it’s a 5% increase in stats.

Yes, a useless 5% is a useless 5%. And I never denied it’s existance, I merely pointed out the fact you don’t need it. I know it is not needed as all content can easily be completed without it (except fractals, but that’s because of agony resistance, not the stats itself).

You can try convincing yourself that this 5% increase is a big deal, but I know it is not.

Ah so, there is a grind for cosmetics and stats, since the 5% does exist.
It’s bit a deal, but you do need to grind for stats.

There isn’t a grind for stats or cosmetics. You can buy whatever cosmetics your after. Mats you need for stats drop in many different content of the game.

I don’t see any discrepancy between how the game is played and what Anet’s top people describe as grinding. I do what I want, in the gear I want and if I tire of it, I change it and STILL I am able to get anything I’m after. It’s NEVER grindy unless I CHOOSE to do content that MAKES the game grindy.

If people feel it’s grindy, it’s because they choose a path to reach goals they aren’t prepared to do. The stuff you need to make all the BiS falls in MANY different parts of the game. There is no reason for anyone to expose themselves to only one to ‘prove’ the game is a grind.

This makes you angry?

Equipping yourself in this game to be competitive has no grind. You don’t need BiS gear or Ascended to complete any of the content or compete in WvW. This is what I believe Anet is saying.

There never will be lasting and viable PvE content for your above average to hard-core player because the game isn’t targeting rhw average to hard-core player market.

You’re second point is valid but again, who really cares about a new map for WvW … it’s not really ‘new content’. My complaint is that if it’s JUST a new map, it’s more of the same.

Utomneian.9013:

so geniuses, what does this mean? i was more looking for a direct response from Anet themselves, but since you all obviously are best friends with Anet, then what does this all mean? this could mean that their Living World experiment failed or didn’t keep the game going the way they wanted, or it means they wanted to release something that would have taken a surplus of work to achieve so the Expansion model was introduced to afford it. that is my theory, but i would prefer confirmation from someone who actually knows.

No one get’s what you are going on about. Obviously an expansion of this size is planned well in advance; it’s not a reactionary action that indicates any sort of failure. It simply means we are getting an expansion, nothing more. You don’t need to be an Anet insider. MMO’s plan expansions ALL the time, even with content updates in between. There isn’t anything exceptional going on here. I know that bursts all conspiracy theory bubbles but even if there was a reason for the expansion other than “It was always the plan to do it”, we would never be told it anyways.

Pretty great changes considering the biggest complaints about sheild was the cooldowns.

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

Jerus.4350:

Obtena.7952:

I hadn’t considered the possibility that fixing shield may interfere with something new in an expansion but now you mention it, that’s just another good reason to not change existing content within a new content expansion.

Let’s be honest with each other here. We might not like shield the way it works, but for what it does do, it’s not broken.

… What does it do other than troll people in EoTM? Bring it on your Bunker in PVP to bounce people out of the node every 40s?

The idea that it could be relied on for anything is absurd.

Sure, but it does what it’s intended to do. I’ve not played an MMO where the dev’s priority is to fix things that are intended over broken, buggy, etc, especially in an expansion intended to showcase new content. It’s certainly a hard sell to claim we need this off hand option to work differently because players find little value in it. Based on what I’ve seen as historical, I would say it’s almost an irrelevant argument and Anet behaviour doesn’t seem to be too far from that truth either.

It doesn’t matter if it exhibits its intended behavior. Making something work properly is bug fixing. Balancing is going beyond making it work properly to ensure that it is a viable option. Guardian shield needs proper balancing, not just bug fixing.

Let’s be clear … it doesn’t matter to PLAYERS. It does matter to devs. It DOES work properly; sheild is not bugged.

Jerus.4350:

Obtena.7952:

I hadn’t considered the possibility that fixing shield may interfere with something new in an expansion but now you mention it, that’s just another good reason to not change existing content within a new content expansion.

Let’s be honest with each other here. We might not like shield the way it works, but for what it does do, it’s not broken.

… What does it do other than troll people in EoTM? Bring it on your Bunker in PVP to bounce people out of the node every 40s?

The idea that it could be relied on for anything is absurd.

Sure, but it does what it’s intended to do. I’ve not played an MMO where the dev’s priority is to fix things that are intended over broken, buggy, etc, especially in an expansion intended to showcase new content. It’s certainly a hard sell to claim we need this off hand option to work differently because players find little value in it. Based on what I’ve seen as historical, I would say it’s almost an irrelevant argument and Anet behaviour doesn’t seem to be too far from that truth either.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Obtena.7952:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

TheSwede.9512:

The problem is, we’ve proof that we -don’t- need the Power of the Gods to kill the Dragons. Zhaitan was taken down by Pact Tech and Magic alone.

The flaw in that reasoning is that you can say the same thing for each existing profession.

… except those existing professions … exist.

…but according to him/her, they too aren’t needed…

Yes, but that’s not the crux of his point. The current professions cover the archetypes in the game already, if not with some overlap even. There is value in the argument that even though his logic applies for all professions, some already exist.

I don’t see anything getting added ‘just because’. I would like to think that things are added to the game based on stronger premise other than the lore saying it’s OK to add it.

I hadn’t considered the possibility that fixing shield may interfere with something new in an expansion but now you mention it, that’s just another good reason to not change existing content within a new content expansion.

Let’s be honest with each other here. We might not like shield the way it works, but for what it does do, it’s not broken.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

TheSwede.9512:

The problem is, we’ve proof that we -don’t- need the Power of the Gods to kill the Dragons. Zhaitan was taken down by Pact Tech and Magic alone.

The flaw in that reasoning is that you can say the same thing for each existing profession.

… except those existing professions … exist.

I think an expansion would be the worst time to ‘fix’ established content.

maha.7902:

This is nothing to do with min-maxing or meta, this is to do with weeding out people who don’t meet your requirements joining your group.

You can already do that with asking them to ping their gear.

“Oh, you don’t have one Ascended Earring with enhanced precision infusion and the other with Vitality? Sorry, you can’t be in our group”

Anet tends to do things different than the beaten path so even if they do implement ‘housing’, I doubt it wouldn’t have some additional value to the way we interact with the game. Most games don’t give a good reason to make a player go to their home. The home itself is not a source of content nor does usually getting it.

I don’t think math is helpful here because PVP targets don’t stand and let you beat on them like PVE ones do.

I’ve always been fond of the condi (or whatever label you want to give it) Guardian … NOT because it’s superawesome pWNSTAR damage but because no one knows what to do with it when they encounter it. The win isn’t what kind of DPS you get from it or how much condition cleanse your opponent has. The win is imagining your opponent’s mouth gaping wide open when you beat him with it. It’s not an IWIN button; you need to know how to play against various people. I don’t even think there is such a thing as it’s ‘better’ than something else; it’s all situational.

It does excel at melting bunkers … it even excels at beating cleanse builds. When used correctly considering a TEAM effort in PVP, it’s a game changer. Nothing applies this kind of condition damage as frequently irregardless of your opponent’s cleasning capabilities as this does.

Jillis.9720:

So you dont see what i am seeing.
Hackers sometimes destroy games and
so i dont like them because they hack accounts too.
no forum fail here sorry.
and getting banned isnt going to stop them
They are hackers.
So they need a fine like a speeding ticket.

I would love to see how you propose Anet go about collecting a fine from players they have banned.

Nothing should be a PVE must have. IF that’s the general impression, it’s probably too good.

IF it’s a boost to attack speed, it should just grant Haste.

If I understand the way the game works, this trait wouldn’t … Aren’t all attacks based on multiples of 1/4 second increments? The 1%‘s wouldn’t even register.

The real question is what if one DOES come in 2015 because there is no expectation that we should be getting one.

We all know where this thread is going. Just give us all the legendaries we want for free please.

Dear Anet,

There was a time where I could really get into GW2 and play it hardcore. But the green window stuff has got to go … what happened to you guys? Holy cow, just fix it.

That’s not true because some effective builds that have burning as a major element don’t rely on Amplified Wrath.

I love all these condi Guardian threads. Been hearing for two years how bad it is.

Just won every pvp ever by assigning medi Guardian build to Macro #1 on keyboard. #PRO

Wow, I didn’t know Guardian was so faceroll … maybe I can just macro that Shiz 4TW.

Fernling.1729:

Obtena.7952:

Zefrost.3425:

I typed KITTEN out manually, so this is a legit title.
__________________________________________________________________
I am a level 80 mesmer from using tomes and crafting.
I now have some experience on my mesmer in PvP.
I wanted to play WvW with guildmates because I feel decent enough at mesmer now.

I have no traits in PvE or WvW.
I need to pay gold that I don’t currently have to unlock traits.
I need a TON of skill points that I don’t have because of buying skills, to unlock traits.

I can’t play WvW with my guildmates on my level 80 mesmer tonight.

TY for this new system that I recently got the displeasure of experiencing.
I will probably not be telling my friends to buy Guild Wars 2…

Ok so, you skipped your way to 80 without experiencing most of what the game has to offer on your character … .

Is there anything in the game you are no longer able to do once you hit level 80? When I powerleveled my characters to level 80 I had access to everything they had access to at level 2 plus much more. I went back on my level 80s and did the low level personal story quests, dungeons, zones and crafting with zero problems.

I could be wrong now though. I haven’t leveled a character to 80 with the new trait and npe changes.

Traits are now unlocked by purchasing each one from the trainer with skill points and gold OR … completing PVE content. Some of the content is not reasonable for the level of trait but still, you are correct. If you are level 80, there should be NO issue for someone to go out, complete the task to get the traits they need and buy the GM ones they need.

The OP’s complaint is sad. Does anyone actually reasonably think they should have a playable, trained character by powerleveling from sitting around a crafting table? I don’t think so …. unless the whole point of the character is to RP crafting.

Zefrost.3425:

I typed KITTEN out manually, so this is a legit title.
__________________________________________________________________
I am a level 80 mesmer from using tomes and crafting.
I now have some experience on my mesmer in PvP.
I wanted to play WvW with guildmates because I feel decent enough at mesmer now.

I have no traits in PvE or WvW.
I need to pay gold that I don’t currently have to unlock traits.
I need a TON of skill points that I don’t have because of buying skills, to unlock traits.

I can’t play WvW with my guildmates on my level 80 mesmer tonight.

TY for this new system that I recently got the displeasure of experiencing.
I will probably not be telling my friends to buy Guild Wars 2…

Ok so, you skipped your way to 80 without experiencing most of what the game has to offer on your character … and you think it’s unreasonable that you didn’t get access to things you need that are gotten through experiencing most of what the game has to offer? Please, do NOT tell you friends to buy GW2 if they are anything like you because they aren’t going to like it.

Bernie.8674:

Obtena.7952:

Bernie.8674:

laokoko.7403:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Astralporing.1957:

BlueBoy.1236:

Ascended and legendaries are luxury items.

BiS is not a luxury.

Please point to the content that you can’t complete in exotics… if there is some content that is physically impossible to complete in full exotic gear then ascended is no longer a luxury but is required. Otherwise it is a luxury item.

High level fractals?

get a +7 and +8 infusion on ring. That’s 20 gold. Get an fused backpiece 100 gold(mawdrey). Get one piece of armor. 70gold for zojja’s footwear.190 gold and you can do fractal 49.

It ain’t too bad. Fractal 49 isn’t much different compare to 50. That being said, having the ability to do 50 is easier to find a party.

That’s pretty funny, considering that I, as a new player, have 40 gold to my name, several traits to buy, and a ton of crafts remaining to max. The fact that these items you’re talking about are going for 190 gold indicate that they are, perhaps, not as much of a luxury as was suggested.

What’s funny here is that you as a new player think high level fractals are relevant to you.

What’s funny here is that even after playing several hours a night for seven months straight I’m still considered a new player in a game that was billed casual-friendly. If I had invested a comparable amount of time into a grindy game like WoW I would be ready to jump into Mythic raiding by now. Just sayin’…

It’s pretty convenient to label yourself a ‘new player’ after seven months to make your point. GW2 manifesto still holds. I’ve never done anything in this game I didn’t find fun … AND be able to increase my wealth doing it, getting closer to a gear goal. If you don’t have the same experience, it’s because you choose to do ‘not fun’ things to achieve the same things you can do having fun. If you can’t find anything fun to do, that’s not the game, it’s you. There are many fun things people do all the time.

If anything, GW2 structure FREES you of the artificial structures other games have to get endgame gear and progress. In truth, it’s not the manifesto you have a problem with, it’s the fact that Anet isn’t telling you how to play. I can see where people that NEED to be lead around by the game design wouldn’t like GW2 and find blame in things that aren’t themselves.

Bernie.8674:

laokoko.7403:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Astralporing.1957:

BlueBoy.1236:

Ascended and legendaries are luxury items.

BiS is not a luxury.

Please point to the content that you can’t complete in exotics… if there is some content that is physically impossible to complete in full exotic gear then ascended is no longer a luxury but is required. Otherwise it is a luxury item.

High level fractals?

get a +7 and +8 infusion on ring. That’s 20 gold. Get an fused backpiece 100 gold(mawdrey). Get one piece of armor. 70gold for zojja’s footwear.190 gold and you can do fractal 49.

It ain’t too bad. Fractal 49 isn’t much different compare to 50. That being said, having the ability to do 50 is easier to find a party.

That’s pretty funny, considering that I, as a new player, have 40 gold to my name, several traits to buy, and a ton of crafts remaining to max. The fact that these items you’re talking about are going for 190 gold indicate that they are, perhaps, not as much of a luxury as was suggested.

What’s funny here is that you as a new player think high level fractals are relevant to you.

Your point isn’t too clear to me but let me paraphrase what I think you say …

There should be some leniency to players in earning gear because of the fact that it’s a game that thrives on people playing it and keeping it going.

Well, GW2 does that with the EXCEPTION to ascended weapons. Ascended armor is barely better than exotic, benefiting the casual player since there is no need for them to get ascended over exotic.

Ascended trinkets are earned from guild missions, dailies or fractals, also benefiting the casual player that must choose content in their limited time.

GW2 definitely caters to the casual player more than any other MMO I’ve played.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

… but that’s dependent on how the PLAYER decided to play. WvW is not all about 1 vs. 1 so if someone does get caught in a situation where they are at a disadvantage because of their gear, that’s their own fault.

Yes, precisely. If you are not running ascended, it’s your own fault – because you really, really should have been.
Notice, how the person decked in ascended will never get caught in a situation when being in weaker gear will give him disadvantage.

That doesn’t indicate that you can’t be effective playing WvW in exotic armor, even against 1 vs. 1 with someone that has ascended armor. The difference in stats between exotic and ascended armor is so insignificant, even if you want to included infusions.

The only point that I will cede to you is that there is a significant difference in damage output between Ascended and Exotic weapons. That still doesn’t appear to me that anything about the current situation needs to change to make Ascended weapons more accessible. If a player can’t get Ascended, they should think about how that affects the way they play WvW. If they just run around and get owned by people using ascended or not, easier progression inot Ascended gear, especially weapons, won’t fix that.

aspirine.6852:

Wanze.8410:

aspirine.6852:

Anet seems so scared of dropped loot its insane. The result of more than 7k champ bags is pathetic to say the least.

I dont see whats wrong with it, what did you expect?

I ma actually quite surprised at the average value of 15s he mentioned per bag. At the rate of champ bags dropping in SW, you can make a very decent profit per hour, considering you also get lots of bags of (rare) gear and other loot.

What do I expect from an mmo game to drop? Well to take it’s predecessor you could actually get the best looking weapons to drop in the game…,omg yes without the insane path of crafting you could get all the weapons you wanted by doing exactly what you like. Kill stuff.

INstead of oh let me go to that node for the 10000th time, oh and chop some wood on the way.

Oh see, that’s your issue right there … you set your expectations to something that doesn’t match the games approach to how it rewards players with loot. It’s really unbelievable that after 2+ years, players still complain about how loot ’doesn’t drop’.

As for the data … I noticed a large inbalance between cloth, ore and leather. Must be intentional. That’s statistically significant.

Bash.7291:

Why are we kicking this dead horse… again? I know i have been gone for a couple months, but nothing on guardian has changed. Hybrid builds became available with the grandmaster trait additions that happened god knows how long ago. It hasn’t changed at all, and in most cases, people’s opinion of them has not changed at all.

Nothing in here is new at all >.<

I think the change is attitudes; more players are experimenting with the ‘new’ traits and liking the different ways burning can be used in pvp. It’s not as 1 dimensional as most of the other stuff we have access to.