You can do all that … you’re proof of it. Ironically, you seem to associate getting BiS gear with being a casual player. Does that make sense to you understanding how the stats progression works and the costs?
I like the concept and if you trait them, they are more valuable if you use them at the appropriate times. My only beef is that traiting them tends to favour VERY specific effects at the Master level and at the GM level, a specific effect AND either the active or passive flavour, not both. To me that doesn’t make sense because an individual virtue is not enough to be a major element for a build and doesn’t justify dedicating a GM trait to improving it.
Other people that sleep, eat food, etc… have more ascended armor than you. If there is a break in logic here, it’s showing. You obviously have priorities that don’t include setting arbitrary goals in a game. That’s not something you can ‘fault’ Anet for. You feel that your time in game should yield you what you want. That’s not how it works. Clearly you haven’t done enough to get it. Lose the idea that you are ‘owed’ something specific for the time you spent playing the game.
So, I just began my quest for my ascended gear. I went into my guild bank, and found all the silk I have been hoarding since the beginning of GW2 (If im honest, I saw silk was useless at launch, and I knew ArenaNet were going to do something with it, so I hoarded it.), and I had 3050 pieces of silk…10 bolts of damask…2 years of work…for one third of a light ascended armour set.
At EGX Rezzed this weekend, im going to be asking the devs what they will be doing to fix this mess. Just so ya’ know.
… and you sat looking at the rest of your 2 years worth of collected mats thinking “Hey, I could sell these on the TP, and make the money I need to buy the rest of the silk I need for a full set of Ascended armor while silk prices are low”.
Also getting that many stacks of luck is not easy you have to be actively salvaging items that drop it and it takes a while every day, otherwise capping luck will likely take you years if you just salvage items that you loot.
Do you mind if I ask why are you doing that if you are drowning in luck? Making profit by doing it I suppose?
Here is my guess:
He places buy orders for items that give an average salvage result value that is higher than the cost to obtain them (you would be surprised how many people simply sell armor to the highest bidder on the TP, just because it’s usually more than the vendor price). He salvages all that and sells the items he gets. There could be more complex schemes too but that is the simplest I can think of. Why are more people not doing it? Because it is alot of work to figure out what items to buy at what prices to sell when dynamic pricing is involved. I am going to guess … the target items yield some high amount of cloth/silk.
Can’t say I share your concern. Perhaps pressing one button is engaging to you, but I think for the majority of people, they yearn for something a little more engaging and making encounters that require more than just #1 is a reasonable and sensible way to do that.
I trust that based on what we have seen so far, Anet will not create a situation where we kill mobs so fast, that the tools we need to progress in HoT will be on perpetual cooldown and we have to wait around. That would be rather stupid.
Same build is found in Obals Guardian PvE guide-thread, which I’m sure you have read through carefully. Do you question him now too for adding it there?
I don’t question it because it’s clear in his guide it’s there as a joke and I happen to agree. I don’t have an issue with people wanting to play whatever they want with whatever crap buidls they see fit to use. The amusing part is that this is rated highly on metabattle when it’s actually not a very useful build, even for the random, zerg event anyone might stumble upon. I can tag and get as much loot simply swapping into a staff without resorting to different traits, etc…
Really? People have a build for something as specific as zerg farming? I get the idea of swapping to a staff when the opportunity arises but how often does zerg farming happen to justify actually having a build for it? It’s weird this is actually a thing. Makes me wonder what other very specific builds exist there and how useful the site is.
I’m still astounded that people haven’t come to realize Anet has address this with an approach that works in their scheme for the development of the game. That’s where the ‘discussion’ ends for me. If this can’t be recognized, then it’s clear the only thing people are after is for THEIR fix idea to be implemented; no other will do.
They don’t deserve to be ignored at all. Any interest to not fix this is as valid a perspective as someone that wants it fixed.
No, that really doesn’t make sense. Any reason to fix or not fix this is only as valid as it is valid, they are not all equally valid.
Of course they are … they are opinions. My opinion isn’t less valid because it’s different than yours or any idea about what you think the game should be like.
After looking, I’m not impressed, especially by the support stance … how many healing abilities does one need? The other stance is just stuff we already have in one way or another.
I don’t actually think it increase the longevity of the game though. Aren’t all these DX versions backwards compatible? The only impact I can see is a real development one where using old standards and methods starts getting more costly than current techs. I’ve seen (ans still see) an example where upgrading the DX on a game has pretty much permanently halted game development (Looking at you Funcom!) but I don’t think DX11 is so antiquated that we should be concerned.
I benefit immensely from MF as an openworld farmer. Perhaps it’s not that great for events, LS, but for general openworld stuff, it has a large impact. It’s been proven.
I got over 10K AP … Compared to the amount of time I’ve spent open world, I haven’t done much in terms of WvW, PVP or dungeons. Not sure why this is even a surprise. Is 10K AP even hard to get anymore?
So I don’t see how this wouldn’t work, it’d fit in perfectly, and the number of builds it’d expand would be fairly big. It also grants something new in terms of play style to the guardian (which is the whole point of specializations).
I’m not saying a LB wouldn’t work in the current concept, I’m saying a primarily offensive LB wouldn’t work in the current concept. I’ve stated many times why. The existence of a number of skills and some ho – hum ranged weapons don’t really indicate to me that devs are leaning towards an offensively-oriented Long ranged weapon through specialization, nor does a half-second clip in a video.
The one part of your post that intrigues me; I didn’t see these leaked skill descriptions for LBow. Are they available to review?
Theme is not concept. Theme might hold the class back but concept can’t because it defines the class. Now, if they EXPAND the concept, I’m all warm and tingly for that kind of talk, but I don’t think specializations will be enough to achieve that, so it’s hard to imagine bow making us into ranged offensive powerhouses; how does a class have two diametrically opposing concepts? I don’t think that will work well for many reasons.
I’m not denying the issue exists or not. I’m questioning the motivation of players that aren’t satisfied with the Anet’s response. For instance, I think you’re not being genuine when you say this isn’t about cost differences in the armor types, it’s about good game design. You’re aware that the cost angle is a dead end, so you’re try something else; that’s fair and I get that … test the waters, see if something sticks. Unfortunately, you picked something you aren’t really an authority on beyond what you can Google and something you can’t prove or disprove is happening, so it’s an untenable position to be in. I guess I just don’t like being lied to and I think you can do better.
I guess that’s a matter of opinion then. I happen to think that even if it is a common request (I don’t see the threads that show it’s common), that doesn’t automatically make it reasonable. I happen to want this game to sustain itself, so I don’t feel that reducing revenue for players that can’t manage their inventories is reasonable at all.
There is no requirement it makes sense to you or anyone for that matter. It just needs to work. The only thing that governs the devs approach to designing the game is what they think it should do. I see no arguments that appeal to that. Ideas of ‘fairness’ or ‘sensible’ aren’t compelling.
to me, it basically sounds like you are saying,
“Do not question the gods! they are mighty and unknowable, beyond the understandings of mere humans!”
design isnt a magic macguffin, there is an actual method and procedure involved. designs can be measured by how well they achieve thier function, their aesthetics, the economy of design, their stucture, and their integrity. Design is not unquestionable, not questioning design leads to stagnancy.
It sounds like that to you because as you already stated, you don’t trust anyone to do anything the way you feel it should be done, based on your narrow perspective as someone that thinks they know more than teams of experienced individuals who have vested interested in making this game successful. This all smacks of selfish arrogance.
I don’t mind questioning this, but as Wanze already pointed out, the process has already been full circle on this issue. Yu got an axe to grind based on some higher moral standing of good game design. I don’t see how that fits with how Anet’s demonstrated process for change works and you have yet to show it.
i dont assume i know more than anyone, but i dont assume that they will create a perfect design, there is no such thing. I dont assume that they know and understand every possible flaw.
Then we are getting somewhere because the only place this can lead is that they make the best decisions for the game, even if you see flawed elements or they result in bad things. Why is that? Because they own the concept for it and if those decisions end up not doing what they want for the game, they will change them. Anet has demonstrated that.
Maybe I’m making a massive assumption here but I don’t think Anet is striving to achieve your version of ‘good game design and practice’ its goal for the game, so I doubt using that as a justification to change this is going to have a significant impact. You give it shot though.
There is no requirement it makes sense to you or anyone for that matter. It just needs to work. The only thing that governs the devs approach to designing the game is what they think it should do. I see no arguments that appeal to that. Ideas of ‘fairness’ or ‘sensible’ aren’t compelling.
to me, it basically sounds like you are saying,
“Do not question the gods! they are mighty and unknowable, beyond the understandings of mere humans!”
design isnt a magic macguffin, there is an actual method and procedure involved. designs can be measured by how well they achieve thier function, their aesthetics, the economy of design, their stucture, and their integrity. Design is not unquestionable, not questioning design leads to stagnancy.
It sounds like that to you because as you already stated, you don’t trust anyone to do anything the way you feel it should be done, based on your narrow perspective as someone that thinks they know more than teams of experienced individuals who have vested interested in making this game successful. This all smacks of selfish arrogance.
I don’t have a problem questioning this, but as Wanze already pointed out, most of the concerns are already dealt with, so I see little point to do so. I won’t parrot his threads; he summed it up really well.
You got an axe to grind based on some higher moral standing of good game design. Unfortunately, this isn’t a university project to make the perfect MMO; it’s a business and has to consider business stuff; ROI for example. I don’t even see how you have shown this isn’t good game design. You haven’t shown it’s bad game design either. You just say it. I don’t think you would know good game design if it hit you between the legs.
^^ I like this guy. Just when people think it’s unreasonable to some more bank space, this dude thinks it should just unlock all sorts of space on whatever characters you have. Why not ask for the moon if you can? Awesome.
There is no requirement it makes sense to you or anyone for that matter. It just needs to work. The only thing that governs the devs approach to designing the game is what they think it should do. I see no arguments that appeal to that. Ideas of ‘fairness’ or ‘sensible’ aren’t compelling.
You know…it’s often true that really smart, academic, creative and intelligent people lack common sense. This is what I believe is happening at Anet. Why oh WHY are they wasting time rearranging things that no one ever complained about – for the worst I might add – while NOT addressing what people really want?
You are absolutely wrong that noone complained.There is a specific group of people that were not happy about the old achievement daily and that were the AP hunters.They considered it to be hell of a farm.Before they had to do 10/10 for full reward.Now it has to be done only 3 dailies for full 10 AP reward.So Anet actually did something right.
So they aren’t going to complain about now having to do a specific world boss or fractals instead of the old system which you could do without even trying??? Rightttt…..
Why would they complain? If they were doing ALL 10 rewards for 10 AP before, it’s obvious that doing ANYTHING to get them was not a barrier to those people. Now they can choose 3 of any category they want for 10 AP. It’s clearly a better deal for them.
This game was ALWAYS meant to be TP centric. It’s not the result of design decisions making that the case, it’s the fundamental pillar intended to work as such. Also, if IIRC, this game has ALWAYS has DR right from release; it was never something introduced part way through to ‘screw legitimate farmers’. It’s things like this that really question your understanding of the game and the legitimacy of your statements.
You don’t have to be an expert to recognize a bad deal when you see one. No one does.
Again, that’s just a LACK of expertise and perspective that leads you to that conclusion. I can understand why expensive silk is a GREAT deal for people ingame. The challenge for the devs is to see ALL of those angles and choose the one that fits the game the best. This is not a black/white issue and the solution isn’t just some trivial change. There might not even be a solution if it’s not perceived as a problem for the devs. Think about that.
No it’s not it’s simple recognition of a bad deal. Quit trying to validate your point by making wild assumptions about people.
I’m not making wild assumptions about people; it’s common sense. There are people that love expensive silk because they don’t need it, they sell it. If you can’t even recognize this, you’re hardly qualified to understand the complexity of what is being discussed here and puts your opinion in question.
You don’t have to be an expert to recognize a bad deal when you see one. No one does.
Again, that’s just a LACK of expertise and perspective that leads you to that conclusion. I can understand why expensive silk is a GREAT deal for certain people ingame. The challenge for the devs is to see ALL of those angles and choose the one that fits the game the best. This is not a black/white issue and the solution isn’t just some trivial change. There might not even be a solution if it’s not perceived as a problem for the devs. Think about that.
The price of scraps has been higher in the past. It’s at about the same price as it was July 9th 2014. Seems like a normal fluctuation to me.
As far as why it takes so many more scraps idk, I didn’t agree with it back when they changed it, but I remember reading that it wasn’t a mistake. I don’t see why it should change now that so many have invested the time and resources to make cloth armor.
The drop rates on cloth do increase with various events (wintersday gave them out from the dusty clothes for example). Too expensive for you right now? Just wait and see what the next event brings and save your gold. The stat difference between exotic and ascended armor is very small anyways.
im starting to realize, that most of the people disagreeing with fixing silk/ascended, are basically just trying to protect their current racket.
Is that so unreasonable? The people wanting it changed are protecting their own interests as well. If you’re an astute light armor users … you ALSO benefit from silk prices.
its very reasonable(reason dictates that you look out for your own best interests), but its also a very bad mechanism for deciding whats good for the game.
essentially, its short sighted. silk being unbalanced in design is not improving the game.
It’s simply a matter of perspective. Yours is from the POV of a light armor user trying to make ascended gear. Mine would be more along the lines of providing goods to people on the market. Anet has MANY perspectives. The difference is that I trust that Anet uses all the perspectives they can think of to make a reasonable decision on how the game should work and I have no reason to think that hasn’t been done here. I don’t trust players to think like that, not even myself.
Silk isn’t unbalanced in design because light users need more of it for ascended gear. That’s a very limited aspect of it’s uses, that statement borders completely ambiguous to me. Seems to me you’re just cherry picking silk use in ascended as SPECIFIC example to make your perspective on the topic seems like the only meaningful one, therefore making is seem the resulting conclusion that silk relation to ascended armor is wrong to be obvious. Not everyone is fooled by this.
I have to parrot JS here. we got 8 pages and nothing compelling to indicate a change is needed here. Price isn’t a problem. He’s also said little about the unbalance between silk in light vs. other armors. Changing that is not an economic issue, it’s purely conceptual.
Its not really about me getting cloth cheaper, its about having a good design. I dont really intrinsicly trust that anyone is anything. Going off of the history of the game, anet has made some misteps.
Yes of course … no reason to trust Anet. The average forum poster has a way more indepth knowledge of good MMO design than any experienced developer of MMO’s made up of teams of knowledgeable, experienced people with a game concept … PUHLEASSE!!! That’s nonsense and its make us all dumber for reading it.
This is NOT about good design because frankly, I doubt you or most of the other people posting here have any clue about what makes good design, especially in online RPG games. Trying to paint this as anything BUT a cost issue is just lying. If that’s true in your case, then you are an exception. Other people care WAY more about the cost difference for light armor ascended than they do of some notion that this needs to be changed in the name of good game design. What a crock.
The price of scraps has been higher in the past. It’s at about the same price as it was July 9th 2014. Seems like a normal fluctuation to me.
As far as why it takes so many more scraps idk, I didn’t agree with it back when they changed it, but I remember reading that it wasn’t a mistake. I don’t see why it should change now that so many have invested the time and resources to make cloth armor.
The drop rates on cloth do increase with various events (wintersday gave them out from the dusty clothes for example). Too expensive for you right now? Just wait and see what the next event brings and save your gold. The stat difference between exotic and ascended armor is very small anyways.
im starting to realize, that most of the people disagreeing with fixing silk/ascended, are basically just trying to protect their current racket.
Is that so unreasonable? The people wanting it changed are protecting their own interests as well. If you’re an astute light armor users … you ALSO benefit from silk prices.
its very reasonable(reason dictates that you look out for your own best interests), but its also a very bad mechanism for deciding whats good for the game.
essentially, its short sighted. silk being unbalanced in design is not improving the game.
It’s simply a matter of perspective. Yours is from the POV of a light armor user trying to make ascended gear. Mine would be more along the lines of providing goods to people on the market. Anet has MANY perspectives. The difference is that I trust that Anet uses all the perspectives they can think of to make a reasonable decision on how the game should work and I have no reason to think that hasn’t been done here. I don’t trust players to think like that, not even myself.
Silk isn’t unbalanced in design because light users need more of it for ascended gear. That’s a very limited aspect of it’s uses, that statement borders completely ambiguous to me. Seems to me you’re just cherry picking silk use in ascended as SPECIFIC example to make your perspective on the topic seems like the only meaningful one, therefore making is seem the resulting conclusion that silk relation to ascended armor is wrong to be obvious. Not everyone is fooled by this.
I have to parrot JS here. we got 8 pages and nothing compelling to indicate a change is needed here. Price isn’t a problem. He’s also said little about the unbalance between silk in light vs. other armors. Changing that is not an economic issue, it’s purely conceptual.
The price of scraps has been higher in the past. It’s at about the same price as it was July 9th 2014. Seems like a normal fluctuation to me.
As far as why it takes so many more scraps idk, I didn’t agree with it back when they changed it, but I remember reading that it wasn’t a mistake. I don’t see why it should change now that so many have invested the time and resources to make cloth armor.
The drop rates on cloth do increase with various events (wintersday gave them out from the dusty clothes for example). Too expensive for you right now? Just wait and see what the next event brings and save your gold. The stat difference between exotic and ascended armor is very small anyways.
im starting to realize, that most of the people disagreeing with fixing silk/ascended, are basically just trying to protect their current racket.
Is that so unreasonable? The people wanting it changed are protecting their own interests as well. If you’re an astute light armor users … you ALSO benefit from silk prices.
I would be interested in finding out how to only need 30 seconds to acquire Laurels a day at no cost. I must be missing something. That’s not sarcasm, I just don’t know how it would be done.
log in…
Yes and? From what I can tell, I did not receive a laurel for logging in. I’m sure I had 59 yesterday … I still have 59. I’m going to check if I will have 59 tomorrow when I log in too.
Could always take a light armor class and go farm Large Ritual Bags in Fireheart Rise if you want more silk in the economy.
Even if they know, the people complaining would never do this. It’s not about silk being unavailable, it’s about the fact that it’s not fair for them to have to get more than anyone else. Even if it rained on their heads, they would still think it’s cause to complain.
I got a suggestion to fix this … take the damask requirement for med/heavy armor out. Then there is more silk for the lights, and I can continue to sell it to them.
I would be interested in finding out how to only need 30 seconds to acquire Laurels a day at no cost. I must be missing something. That’s not sarcasm, I just don’t know how it would be done.
In the end, i agree, that light armor users are a bit shafted by the daily timegate and I dont mind, if they find a way to bring them on par with medium and heavy armor.
But then we have to look at other timegates as well, that are disproportionally distributed.
Why do heavy armor users have to spend 55 laurels and 33g for the recipes in order to get a full ascended weapon set and an engi only has to spend 20 laurels and 12g, an ele only needs 25 laurels and 15g?
35 Laurels is a huge difference and makes the 6 days that a light armor user needs more to craft his damask (which can be circumvented by buying it directly anyways) seem miniscule.
35 laurels is easily gotten with the new system. And are you seriously saying that HAVING MORE WEAPON CHOICES is a bad thing?? I am sure Engineers And Eles would gladly be ‘punished’ with having to craft more ascended weapons, if they had more weapons to use.
Seriously…that is one of the single worst arguments I have ever seen on here.
I don’t see this as an argument but more of a demonstration of other aspects of the game where gear differences exist. The real point I see being made is that it’s a fool’s errand to attempt to balance all these differences out so they don’t exist to make it equal for each class. I also don’t see a compelling reason from anyone to justify doing so. In fact, if Anet wanted equality in crafting ‘effort’ for every class, it would have been easier for them to take that route in the first place but they didn’t for reasons.
The trick here is to think of what those reasons are and understand them in terms of the game concepts instead of rallying around ‘fairness’ as some moral standard that players (wrongly) think the game should aspire to.
I would think to expand staff for area controls, it would have to be more condition focused than boon focused. Basically, would have to change some lesser used skill to AOE immobilize or knockback … but those aren’t really damage so, not sure what it could be in terms of current game abilities.
I like the idea of traps … an effect that triggers based on some enemy action over a large area. Of course, it would be called traps for Guardians as Rangers already have that class element.
I agree. Silk should not be so misrepresented. They should boost the requirements of everything to match silk.
this wouldnt really solve the imbalance completely, because mithril is farmable, and leather is still used less in ascended recipes.
it would have an effect.
But if your goal is to have balance, the question becomes which is better balanced in terms of how much grinding it should take to get best in slot.`
I dont think it should take 4-5 hours a day for 36 days to get best in slot for armor alone
Nah, I just hope it will bring up the price on the other mats so I can make more money off the shlubs worrying about their ascended gear.
I think you get it. The others yammering about ‘balance’ do not. This is the same level of silly caused by people QQing about silver doubloons. These differences aren’t surprises to anyone at Anet so it’s reasonable to ask what positive impact they have to the game. There are some but of course, it requires people to have a little more insight than crying ‘unfair’ and put the blinders on.
I actually all for fixing this without getting back to 1c silk or making crafting ascended armor a trivial activity. I can’t help feel there is too much perspective not being taken in this thread.
So what are they trading for a more difficult progression? What is the benefit that they gain for in exchange for the extra effort?
Wanze already pointed some out like less ascended weapons to craft on some classes. Of course, it’s not as simple as you elude to. There are differences across all classes that make some favourable over others depending on the player’s preferences, their willingness and their interests. Just because you put no effort into recognizing them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
I find it funny your approach is that it’s not ‘justified’ this difference exists. Based on what? Fairness? Still waiting for you to tell me how in a game where class variations exists, this particular difference, out of many, needs to be changed.
You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).
So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?
You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.
Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.
… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.
No, it’s just confirms that the deficiencies of other classes are more tolerable to some players. Choices. Trade offs.
Do you question him now too for adding it there?