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I hope there is one called “shoot myself”. Frikking bow ><
What were you expecting… daggers ?
Daggers no
Main hand axe & or offhand warhorn could easily work though
Hold the kittening phone. You think warhorn would be more exciting than bow..?
I didn’t see him say ‘exciting’. For me, the axe/warhorn combination is the most interesting option we could get. Rallying allies around you with the horn makes alot of sense conceptually. More ranged weapons do not, as explained numerous times and reinforced by Anet’s own thinking. Not saying that can’t change but, personally, it’s not all that interesting and it’s not the ultimate solution people think it might be for the things that ail Guardians in WvW/PVP.
I hope there is one called “shoot myself”. Frikking bow ><
Too bad Anet can’t nerf noobs that need to L2P.
It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.
I just don’t think you get enough benefit from procing confusion from a rune set. If other players are beating you to the punch in SW, I would think you want to avoid conditions and just do some kind of bursting approach to get to target, do enough damage to tag and get looting right. Necro has all the elements needed to do that; in fact, many ways.
No reason to follow the power meta build in open world PVE. Most power meta builds aren’t optimized for open world PVE to being with.
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More QQ about Anet giving players choice. Love it.
I put priority on expansion slots for bank and copper salvage kit.
Why would anyone bother to convince you? Play whatever you want. No one is impacted by what you play.
I have bookmarked an extremely good posts on this topic:
I won’t get into the details but the result is that PRE gets better returns than POW when:
Power – Precision + 832 > 2100 / (0.5 + Critdmg)
This is an old post and hasn’t been upgraded for the new Ferocity stat but IIRC, the ultimate conclusion was that for the ranges of POW, PRE and FER that can be achieved, POW is always the stat that gives the best returns. That would be even more true since the crit damage to FER change; Ferocity conversion to crit damage percent was nerfed slightly when it was introduced.
While it is true that there are effects from sigils, etc.. that affect crit rates, etc…, that’s not the question that the OP is asking. Those are also temporary effects; the stats from gear is constant.
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They will get harassed. if they join a party whos leader has it turned on, and they dont. guess what, the harassment starts. If 1 person is advertising for a run and a party of 2 or 3 join and demand a gear check and if that person doesnt want to, Toddles.
Having this solves nothing and does nothing for the game.
No thank you. Pinging gear is quick enough already. Takes barely any time to shift click all the gear in your inventory. would it be a little faster? maybe.But its not needed.
That’s not all that different from the way things are right now. You have your zerks only ping gear or kick groups, and you have your all are welcome groups. People who don’t like one type will join the other type. Having this feature won’t do anything to affect that.
It’s more complex than that though, they’d have to build an entire ‘inspect’ ui for looking at other players.
I can’t imagine it’ll be too hard to implement… they already have something similar for previewing dyes and armor.
It’s much different. One is player implemented, the other would be Anet implemented. I don’t feel a gear check built into the game is inline with the game concept.
Obtena, i think when you look into the mechanics of the skill co-efficients for each skill of each varying weapon and how + dam is (for the most part this is where is gets weird, more exponential in growth than ferocity you will understand how that the simple calculation doesn’t begin to express the true value of precision vs power) It depends upon a variety of factors….. I didn’t even get into quite a few like choices of sigil and etc… it is really complex and almost mind boggling when you get into the numbers and the differences. I don’t understand it all and I am someone who can take raw data and can create complex dynamic spreadsheets and kinda gets off on that side of mmos. The only thing I know besides some basics concepts is that it is really really hard to figure out stuff on a guardian due to 2 or even 3, 4 paths that are lesser known have such a differing impact on your stats.
It’s not as complex as you describe, though that might depend on the individual. The skill factor coefficients for the weapon skills are simply multiplicative coefficients on the damage function that is dependent on power, precision and ferocity.
What does this mean for the discussion? You can ignore specific weapon skills and effects when deciding how to choose gear to allocate offensive stats. They don’t change the core damage function that is dependent on the three stats.
I can’t help but wonder what type of person would really want to a thread with such a rude subject. You do know that it’s actual human beings with real thoughts and emotions that designed those skins, right?
Again, this ALL SUBJECTIVE AND OPINION. I paid for this game just like you did and i can state my opinion.
Id question what type of individual you are but i already know, you are all that is wrong with america, please take your sensitive liberal comments somewhere else, thanks.
So, the whole point of the thread is that you just don’t like 85% of the skins … OK, thanks I guess.
I think you misunderstand the OP’s question. He wants to know when he should focus on the non-power offensive stats. It doesn’t have anything to do with the weapon you choose or the traits you have. It’s simply the mathematics that determines the relationship between damage as a function of power, precision and ferocity; that function doesn’t change for a given weapon. With the currently achievable numbers for Ferocity, I think the answer is never; power is always best. I didn’t check in depth but I think the chart CMF posted shows this if someone knows how to interpret it.
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Frankly, if you acknowledge most the skins are junk and you acknowledge it’s subjective, then why should anyone care what you think? Troll thread.
The last time I looked at the math, the values needed for precision to be preferred over power require unattainable power values. It also depends on if you’re teaming, etc… and getting crit buffs from others because crit caps at 100%. Perhaps a more savvy theorycrafter can comment better.
It’s not a matter of not getting as much. As stated at present, a non-expansion player will have their end-game character progression (gaining skill points by leveling) stripped out and replaced by nothing.
And as I stated in the linked post, it’s not a matter of “getting it for free.” I even specifically addressed that point.
I don’t think that’s correct; If I understand correctly, they aren’t changing the core game; masteries are just additional content. In fact, they can’t just strip something out from the original release and then leave a gap for people that don’t purchase HOT. They would instantly lose any player who doesn’t purchase HOT. It would be stupid.
In addition, you can justify however you want. It’s not reasonable to put paid content into a previous expansion for nothing, simply because they would de-value their new product. That makes no sense. You want the new content, you pay for it. If you don’t pay, you still have all the value you paid for the original release. This is a well established business model and it works.
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My comment is mostly for people that like to stick to PVE. WvW and sPVP aren’t really popular for a lot of the player base.
I’m aware of that. My comment is still relevant. Even if it’s not popular for some people, it doesn’t mean Anet should simple shower people with so many options that no matter what content a person does, the achievement just falls in their lap. That’s what we had before and it was stupid.
The point is whether you like the content or not, it can always be done; it’s simply the players CHOICE if they want to do it. The OP is complaining he couldn’t do the daily when in fact, there were MANY ways he could have completed it, like I did. He simply chose not to.
This seems to be a constant theme in this game… people complaining that when present with choice, it’s somehow a big gamebreaking predicament for them. Seems like people have forgot how to play MMO’s and just want to be lead down the path with Anet holding their hands. It’s all rather off putting.
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I don’t see the problem. HOT access characters with masteries don’t impact a non-HOT’s character to access the part of the game they paid for.
As for not locking masteries behind HOT … give us a break. You’re kidding? So basically you just think it should be free … for reasons?
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If 2 of those options aren’t a good fit, do one from another category …
You people are aware you can do ANY three from any category to get the achievement … RIGHT? In fact, I did just that very thing because of the very day the OP is complaining about in this thread for the same reason …. CAN’T do the daily indeed!
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Astral already addressed the core of the problem. They are too specific. Take PvP for example. One is to ‘Win with [Profession]’. The game comes with less character slots than professions available. So what if the PvP daily requires you to win using professions that you don’t have?
Are these players suppose to keep on char slot free at all times so they can make throw away characters? What about those who had all slots filled before the change? Are they expected to delete a character?
I bet their expented to whip out the CC to buy a character slot…
I can agree that they are too specific, but the sheer volume people have access to makes up for that. I have never seen a daily achievement that can’t be done, but I see many that I can understand not many people would excited about doing. BIG difference.
So what are players supposed to do when they see a PVP achievement for a profession they don’t play in PVP? Do one you can do … the obvious solution.
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It’s a game, everything is optional. Even playing it.
That’s not acknowledging the hierarchy of needs here. Optional to play the game is not the same level as optional to do something while playing that game, so that comparison is nonsense. Optional is a very VALID argument because it’s the players choice.
Good thing that it’s optional at every level then.
That’s sort of the point are making here … it’s rather stupid to QQ about ’can’t do dailies’ because the player decides … he’s not going to do them.
It’s a game, everything is optional. Even playing it.
Just because it’s a game, doesn’t make optional any less of an argument. In addition, that’s not acknowledging the hierarchy of needs here. Optional to play the game is not the same level as optional to do something while playing that game, so your statement is nonsense.
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I love haste with the Engi Flamethrower. I’m not sure if that’s the best performance but couple that with rabid and bleed on crit sigil … it’s fun
Then truly, Devata’s problem isn’t one that GW2 can solve, at least not to his significant satisfaction. This game is established with a population that plays because of those mechanics, not in spite of them.
The reason people are complaining is because unbalanced matches are unfair and frustrating, and with absolutely ZERO reward for loosing it is a waste of time when you are on the losing team.
There is no incentive to balance out, as volunteer doesn’t give you an auto-win, so players that were on the winning team that get team swapped get mad and leave to join a new, fresh match rather than stick out one that is going to lose.
Sure but my point still stands … statistically you are only on the losing side 50% of the time. It’s would be rather unreasonable to go into DB and think your going to win 5/5 AMIRITE?
I dont have any character with fractals above level 3 so I cant really do the 21-30 one.
None of my guild that are on at the moment are up for fractals and PUGing them is the less preferable option to pulling out my eyes with a rusty spanner.
So yeah, cant do daily again.
You can, you just choose not to. You are aware that you can do a WvW or PVP to finish it off right?
OK, but like I said, Anet’s intent isn’t to have many different things fall on us like rain; so whatever you are proposing to HOW you get stuff, it’s not going to be ‘less things’ than we have to do now to get loot which doesn’t change the level of ‘grind’ people are complaining about having to do. Frankly, other than the conceptual difference between getting gold and getting ‘stuff’, you’re not actually proposing anything different than what already exists in the game; we already have choice to doing content that still leads to the reward standard of gold.
Really your hang up here isn’t grind or even how we get stuff, it’s the types of reward we get. Simply not the same thing. Direct rewards is not a solution for grinding, Removing grinding doesn’t lead to direct rewards.
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That’s part of the problem with your proposal … Complete X to get what … we are talking about Ascended right? I can guarantee you that X won’t be “Do a vista in Queensdale”. Either you complete many different X’s or you complete X many times to get BiS. You’re not proposing to reduce grind at all, just change it’s form.
I don’t get the complaint … unless NO games are finishing because of people just quitting or whatever, you’re just as likely to be on the win as the lose side. Statistically, you have a 50% for either so on average, you should need to play 20 games to win 10.
Admittedly, being camped is crap … but the game does finish faster.
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Fractals are ‘true’ PvE options … you just choose to ignore them.
Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear.
So that is why we (I) give a more detailed explanation as ‘there is grind, it should go’. While in all honestly I do not see how they would want to have no grind and not direct ways of getting it. Locking it behind a way to high RNG would create grind again, or at least extreme bad farms that aren’t any better.
If Anet were into drowning people with BiS loot, it would already be happening. Therefore, advocating getting rid of the current approach because it’s grindy, to replace it with something else you like, which will likely be as grindy, is nonsense.
You don’t really get it … if you want to complain about not having direct methods to get loot, tacking that into a ‘OMG game grindy’ thread doesn’t really work. Those aren’t the same issue. I understand the lengthy logic you have to say they are related but fixing one doesn’t guarantee the other because they are not THAT closely related. That’s just wishful thinking.
The complain is:
I like to hunt down items, Currently I can no do that / go directly for them but can only get them by grinding.
It’s not that lengthy is it. And again, thats why people don’t just say ‘remove the grind’ what you seem to apply, but they give a more detailed explanation what they dislike and what they would like.
I say it’s lengthy because changing one doesn’t necessarily affect the other. In fact, it’s so conditional it’s unlikely. Maybe lengthy isn’t the right word here but I think it’s not a stretch to understand that removing grind doesn’t immediately lead to the conclusion we need direct rewards from raids. I believe it naturally leads to the opposite; if you want direct rewarded loot, players are going to have to do repeated content for it. That’s not really accomplishing anything if the goal is to reduce grind.
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Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear.
So that is why we (I) give a more detailed explanation as ‘there is grind, it should go’. While in all honestly I do not see how they would want to have no grind and not direct ways of getting it. Locking it behind a way to high RNG would create grind again, or at least extreme bad farms that aren’t any better.
If Anet were into drowning people with BiS loot, it would already be happening. Therefore, advocating getting rid of the current approach because it’s grindy, to replace it with something else you like, which will likely be as grindy, is nonsense.
You don’t really get it … if you want to complain about not having direct methods to get loot, tacking that into a ‘OMG game grindy’ thread doesn’t really work. Those aren’t the same issue. I understand the lengthy logic you have to say they are related but fixing one doesn’t guarantee the other because they are not THAT closely related. That’s just wishful thinking.
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That’s not logical … as I’ve already stated, you can have direct rewards and still have grind (in fact it’s highly LIKELY) so the idea that getting rid of grind will naturally lead to direct rewards is not necessarily correct.
It’s actually counter-intuitive to think that removing grind from a game will increase the chance we will see direct rewards from specific content. Anet isn’t just going to shower us with the stuff people are claiming we grind for in this game with one or two raids. That would be rather stupid in fact.
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If your whole issue is that the game doesn’t have enough ways to get gear more directly, then what does that have to do with grinding? Those are exclusive to me. In theory, there could be a raid that gives you gear you want, grindy or not. Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear. In fact, good luck getting a non-grindy approach to getting gear directly through raiding. I’m not saying it can’t be done but I don’t see Anet putting Ascended gear into a dungeon raid you don’t have to repeat many times to get it.
Seems to me you’re just using the premise of ‘game too grindy’ to justify a shift in paradigm on an unrelated issue.
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I guess I was complaining and didn’t realize it LOL, the reason I felt this game is not that grindy is because I learned a long time ago that grinding in this game is a complete waste of time, I personally found I made no strides what so ever in what I wanted to achieve and no longer do it. All those vanity items like unique skins, ascended stuff, legendary’s etc I basically look at as unattainable and no longer waste my time trying for those things, I just log in, do what I enjoy, mostly WvW and PvP and log off, completely ignoring any and all things that would be considered grindy, I guess its been so long with that mindset I no longer look at Gw2 as a grindy game.
This is worth recognition. Once more people break out of their stigmas established from other MMO’s, they will realize the same thing. GW2 is something much different below the surface.
With the difference that in those other MMO’s there is not such a bad grind for these sorts of things.
That’s debatable and not all that relevant. I’m with Anet’s definition so I don’t feel there is a grind; I just acknowledge that if others think it’s there that they haven’t turned on to the idea they don’t need to do it (which comes full circle to my own perception that the game isn’t grindy). It’s nice to see some others bringing some sensible discussion to this thread in the last 2 pages though. People starting to realize that there is alot of grey area in this discussion, the subjectivity being applied in absolute terms is a non-starter.
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I guess I was complaining and didn’t realize it LOL, the reason I felt this game is not that grindy is because I learned a long time ago that grinding in this game is a complete waste of time, I personally found I made no strides what so ever in what I wanted to achieve and no longer do it. All those vanity items like unique skins, ascended stuff, legendary’s etc I basically look at as unattainable and no longer waste my time trying for those things, I just log in, do what I enjoy, mostly WvW and PvP and log off, completely ignoring any and all things that would be considered grindy, I guess its been so long with that mindset I no longer look at Gw2 as a grindy game.
This is worth recognition. Once more people break out of their stigmas established from other MMO’s, they will realize the same thing. GW2 is something much different below the surface.
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What is your problem Obtena?
It’s pretty simple; people can’t accuse Anet for making a grindy game based on whatever definition suits that purpose. That’s just self-serving justification and to expect Anet to even consider changing something in the game based on a subset of players personal pre-dispositions is nonsense; the game can’t be everything to everyone. Anet did not design the game around some random players arbitrary definition of what grindy means. People can’t seem to frame their ‘discussion’ around Anet’s clarification. I help with that.
People find the game grindy, many people do. So they tell it on the forum and even explain what they consider grind. What else can they do?
And in all honestly I also think you are downplaying the hole thing when you say “Anet did not design the game around some random players arbitrary definition of what grindy means.”. Many people find the game grindy, names as ‘grind wars’ don’t come out of nowhere. We all also know many people grind or do you want to act as if champ-trains never existed, or those grinding in EotM? We all know there is a lot of grinding going on and all that grind might not be the grind Anet tries to prevent with there ‘no-grind philosophy’ but ‘some random players arbitrary definition of what grindy means.’ it’s just downplaying of what is really going on. Like if this is some totally unknown definition of grind a few people talk about. That is just nonsense.
The only nonsense is again … you coming up with your own, not relevant to how Anet designs the game, definition of grind.
What is your problem Obtena?
It’s pretty simple; people can’t accuse Anet for making a grindy game based on whatever definition suits that purpose. That’s just self-serving justification and to expect Anet to even consider changing something in the game based on a subset of players personal pre-dispositions is nonsense; the game can’t be everything to everyone. Anet did not design the game around some random players arbitrary definition of what grindy means. People can’t seem to frame their ‘discussion’ around Anet’s clarification. I help with that.
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Having to grind weeks to get materials and money to outfit one of my eight characters with gear is like work. It’s not fun.
Let me fix your problem then … you don’t have to.
I doubt healthcare is driving Anet’s decisions to make the game more or less grindy ><. Just sayin …
I get it’s hyperbole but even the logic that pushing people to spend money by making the game grindy is a fallacy. There are other options to the player if they don’t like the parts of the game that are grindy other than converting gems to gold; most notably, not falling into the trap they need to grind for anything in the first place.
Yes, but you can be absolutely certain that every single decision ultimately leads back to the fundamental root purpose of making profits.
It does them no good to sell additional content if they spend all that money on the content development. It does little good to cash shop everything or sell really crappy expansions if the players mostly quit and leave out of disgust. Business is a giant balancing game between how much money you spend on providing your product/service, how much money you take in from your customers, and how your customers feel about continuing to give you money vs finding other alternatives.
So, when you say, “even the logic that pushing people to spend money by making the game grindy is a fallacy,” I would tend to agree. Overtly pushing makes the customers feel bad about the transaction. But I’m certain they are completely aware of the relative attractiveness of buying gems/gold created by the real $$ to hours of grind ratio they created.
Oh of course. I just don’t think the strategy being used to entice people to spend money on the game is to force people to get stuff and likewise, that’s not what is happening ingame. Anet knows that and it’s just sensible to understand very few people are willing to spend money on something they resent or dislike.
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I doubt healthcare is driving Anet’s decisions to make the game more or less grindy ><. Just sayin …
I get it’s hyperbole but even the logic that pushing people to spend money by making the game grindy is a fallacy. There are other options to the player if they don’t like the parts of the game that are grindy other than converting gems to gold; most notably, not falling into the trap they need to grind for anything in the first place.
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Another point is, when designing a game you should absolutely consider what players think and how they see something.
No, when designing a game, they should consider how the KIND of players they want to target think and how they see the game. This is a big difference from what you say above because no game can attract EVER type of player. The best any game dev team can do it say “We should try to make this game good for player type X”. I think Anet has done that rather well because this game is obviously targeting what I refer to as the ‘casual’ player and doing almost everything it can to not target ‘hardcore’ market, at least in PVE.
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It’s not really a requirement just because you want it. Requirement is defined by need, not want. Even if someone does need it for higher level fractals, it’s something that comes time… you don’t need a full set of Ascended once you decide your going to conquer fractals.
By that definition I don’t even need rare gear. Someone could carry me through fractals and/or dungeons for a few months until I naturally gathered the gold, mats, and laurels to deck myself out. How realistic is that, though?
That’s right … you DON’T need rare gear. Do you get it yet?
It’s the same for the Dungeon guys who complain that people aren’t using zerker gear … players don’t NEED it to do the content. The game has not been concepted or designed to force anyone to do things they don’t want or in a way they don’t want to do it. That’s how dungeons works, that’s how Ascended armor works too. It’s almost how EVERYTHING works in this game.
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It’s not really a requirement just because you want it. Requirement is defined by need, not want. Even if someone does need it for higher level fractals, it’s something that comes time… you don’t need a full set of Ascended once you decide your going to conquer fractals. You can actually start your Fractals journey with more Ascended gear than you need.
If there is any complaint, I would say that earning Ascended gear is outside the scope of doing fractals, which is not arguably the only place it’s NEEDED. Unless I’m mistaken, you don’t get Ascended mats in Fractal rewards. That’s a big issue.
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There is nothing elitist about telling people to not play a game that doesn’t suit their style of play because the honest truth is that the game is highly unlikely to change to fit what you want to see it do. You shouldn’t be offended that something in a game for casuals doesn’t appeal to you; that just tells you who you are as a gamer. People should learn from that instead of denying what it means. The Dungeon crowd have finally caught on to this fact, it’s simply a matter of time before other types of players learn it to; the targeted market for this game doesn’t only affect Dungeons, it’s just less obvious in the other parts.
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I’m expressing a viewpoint that seems relatively common …. Anet can use that or not; it’s up to them.
That’s the problem with this thread … no one can say this is a common issue, simply based on forum activity. Anyways, Anet already semi-closed the lid on this. They did provide a response to it within this thread. People are just campaigning; nothing relevant has been added for a while.
I really don’t care any more.
No, you do care … that’s why you’re still posting in a topic that’s 23 pages long. Don’t pretend like it doesn’t matter to you and you don’t wish for the game to be something it’s not.
And I’m not buying it till proven wrong, kay?
No problem with that … that’s how it’s SUPPOSED to work. I encourage people that can’t hack the game to not play it because it’s dead easy and aimed at casuals. The bar is low enough.
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And you effectively clarified this argument by describing a two hour grind. That’s not so convincing.
Tobias’s routine wouldn’t count as a grind by the definition Anet has given in this thread.
It would count as one for you, and for me, and seemingly for many others. Which is why Anet’s definition is so troubling; it’s quite self-servingly limited.
It’s not self serving … it’s how they defined their goal to have no-grind for the game. It’s not even an unreasonable definition; it’s what many players experienced in the industry would also define as grinding. It’s not simply some definition they concocted to high five themselves around a board room table. Just because it doesn’t suit a subset of QQing players doesn’t make it less relevant or meaningful of a definition.
They don’t design around players ideas of what the game should achieve; that would be a fool’s errand and rather stupid to try to do.
Listen, Anet’s definition of grind completely disregards the quantity of work that has to be done to obtain something; it’s solely concerned with variety.
If they need you to collect 20,000 candy corn, it wouldn’t be a grind by their definition if they gave you as much as two separate ways to get the mat. No matter the subjective experience of repetition or tedious robotic play.
My definition of grind isn’t unreasonable either, it does include a consideration of total amount of effort required, and the tediousness or lack of excitement in the play required.
That’s nice, but you don’t design the game, they do so your definition doesn’t really matter for anything except how it affects your decision to play the game. Instead, your using it to justify how the game should change to accommodate your needs. That’s not how it works buddy.
And you effectively clarified this argument by describing a two hour grind. That’s not so convincing.
Tobias’s routine wouldn’t count as a grind by the definition Anet has given in this thread.
It would count as one for you, and for me, and seemingly for many others. Which is why Anet’s definition is so troubling; it’s quite self-servingly limited.
It’s not self serving … it’s how they defined their goal to have no-grind for the game. It’s not even an unreasonable definition; it’s what many players experienced in the industry would also define as grinding. It’s not simply some definition they concocted to high five themselves around a board room table. Just because it doesn’t suit a subset of QQing players doesn’t make it less relevant or meaningful of a definition.
They don’t design around players ideas of what the game should achieve; that would be a fool’s errand and rather stupid to try to do.
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OMG 5 days!!!!!!! … I’m going back to Carebears Online.