Oh, so, by anet’s definition, having to kill a raid boss, for a 15% chance to get the sword I want = grind.
Being able to get that same sword after:
- spending hundreds of hours hoarding mats or gold to buy the mats needed to craft other mats needed to craft the sword (with time gating, because kitten)
- get that sword via killing any mob in game, with a drop chance of 0,00000001%
= no grind!!!
Give me back my grind, please.
ANet is taking the grind to a whole new level with their anti-grind philosophy.
It is like they make the grind feel so futile, that most players will just give up on getting what they want.
Genious!
I’m not sure why you think you’d know what most players like or don’t like.
I don’t think this “I don’t think you can proof anything you say, but whatever I say is correct because I say so” mentality helps any kind of discussion.
In fact I think it’s pretty childish and only causing topics to get derailed. If this is your goal, I think I have to remind you of the forum rules. It is against them. Sorry.
I think it’s helpful … people tend to think they speak for everyone when they don’t. That is just a reminder.
Enough with the “it’s not needed argument”. It’s not the point at all. Please go and read [again] ANet’s very own post about it. Getting BiS gear shouldn’t be a grind. It being “needed” has nothing to do with it.
I’m well aware of what Anet said and by their own definition, BiS isn’t a grind and yes there is an element of need in thier definition, but it’s not for the gear, it’s for repeating content to get it. if you want Ascended, there are many ways to go about getting the mats. Therefore, when I’m talking to the dude who thinks SWTOR is less than a grind than GW2, I’m pointing out that in SWTOR, the grind is large because there are only specific content that can be done (i.e., needed to repeat) to get enough comms to get gear to improve; and yes in some instances, you need that gear to do more difficult content. GW2 does not do that to me. I can happy do almost everything in exotic. Context … it’s important.
I don’t but I know why others might; because they think the reward is worth the journey. because they have something to prove. because they want to achieve, regardless of how it’s done.
Another theme of this thread; people with the belief that all players are homogeneous. That they all play for the same reasons with the same goals, the same approach. Those people can’t imagine why Anet introduced Ascended gear grind into a game with a no-grind philosophy. It’s just tunnel vision being used to justify the idea that there is only one way to play the game, one way for the game to exist and any deviation from that is a kittenization of some ideal defined by these narrow minded players.
If people stopped trying to tell others how the game SHOULD be, or how they SHOULD play, half these threads wouldn’t exist. There isn’t a place in this industry for anyone BUT the developers to do that. Somewhere, gamers have decided they know better than anyone how games should work but don’t see the contradiction that ideas differ, so it can never be just one idea satisfying everyone. No game is everything to everyone.
That’s a nice story. I can attest that from my own experience SWTOR does NOT have less grind that GW2 because SWTOR requires me to have certain tiers of gear to successfully complete much of the PVE content or compete in PVP. Furthermore, that gear isn’t just thrown at you .. it is, by definition, a grind to get it; repeated content to get gear or tokens from raid drops. Nothing is more grindy than that.
By simply playing the story you get minimum required raid gear and then it doesn’t take that many raids to gear up. Far less of a grind than to get a full suite of BiS gear in GW2. As for PvP you get it by simply playing the game same as GW2.
You don’t get it … It’s not about how many raids I need to gear up, it’s about the fact that I need to do raids to gear up at all. GW2 doesn’t even come close to making me do anything I’m not interested in to gear up; I can do WHAT I CHOOSE to get gear I want. I’m also not FORCED to get BiS gear to do endgame content in GW2 .. in SWTOR, forget it if you don’t have it.
The irony; many of these new items that you can’t buy … require grinding. People aren’t understanding that it’s not the grinding they don’t like, it’s the way the game gives you ‘stuff’ and what kind of ‘stuff’ it gives you.
You’re not recognizing how MMO’s appeal to different players and I’ve already explained this to you. I’m not sure how your lack of comprehension makes me wrong but to be clear
See, you are so stuck on your preconceived notions that you cannot see the answer right in front of you.
You can choose to be pedantic; my answers to whatever your questions are don’t address the topic. I’m not going to let you lead me down tangents about why grinding is a ‘thing’ in MMO’s to go off topic. I already explained it actually; appealing to different kinds of players, sense of achievement from work, etc… I understand how that’s getting lost on younger generations but it’s still a ‘thing’ to some people, so I can understand why there is a small but non-mandatory part of this game that has it … and I understand why it shouldn’t affect anyone who isn’t willing to do it as well. You’re missing those things. I’m just going to bring you back to what Anet’s goals for the game are and how your position is not acknowledging it.
Wrong again … the game breaks many conventions. Whatever your angle here, it still doesn’t make what I said any less relevant or wrong.
That the only reason why grinding is part of all MMOs is because no one has made a MMO without the grind, not because one design is inherent to another? That pretty much makes what you said wrong. Claiming “the game must be like this because that’s how all games in this genre are” is short sighted. Under this kind of reasoning, someone asking for FPS to have a good story, back when all we had was Doom, would have been told that “it’s not how FPS are”. Until we got Half Life and Bioshock, and people realized you could have a good story in that kind of game. Same with MMORPGs and grind – the current games have a lot of grind. Yet they would still be massive, be multiplayer, be online and be RPGs if you removed, or at least reduced significantly, the grind.
Now you’re putting words in my mouth. I did not say MMO’s are grindy just because they are …. smarten up.
You’re not recognizing how MMO’s appeal to different players and I’ve already explained this to you. I’m not sure how your lack of comprehension makes me wrong but to be clear, there isn’t anything you need gear-wise to play this game that fits under the definition that Anet uses for grindy. What gear that is grindy is a choice for players to make.
It’s not ONLY used by people that like to grind. It’s also used by people that understand that working for something is part of the reward system in any MMO.
In other words, people who want more of the same instead of wanting a MMO that breaks conventions.
Wrong again … the game breaks many conventions, especially the one we are talking about in this thread. The gearing aspects of this game that require ‘lots of work’ are not necessary to progress and succeed. Another example; the gear that is generally accepted as necessary to success is relatively easy to obtain. Yet another; if you are so inclined, you can obtain said easily obtained gear by converting RL money to gems, etc.. and just buying it.
The “people who are complaining want everything handed to them” speech is used by those who like the grind. Because everyone else can clearly see the difference between playing a game to have fun and working in a game.
It’s not ONLY used by people that like to grind. It’s also used by people that understand that working for something is part of the reward system in any MMO. That’s why Anet doesn’t make getting Ascended gear mandatory for the majority of the content that people want to experience. You’re just ignoring that aspect that Anet defines as grind to make your argument … again, if you don’t discuss within the parameters that Anet uses to design the game, you’re just ranting.
Ironically, I was talking about how you enjoy the current grind and you were claiming asking for its removal would be unreasonable because you would not enjoy seeing it removed. Your most recent post is a nice reply to yourself.
I guess you have a problem with context then. You’ve assumed I enjoy the grind. That’s an incorrect premise, so your statement is false. I don’t want to see current approach to obtaining Ascended gear removed because I don’t see a problem with how it’s implemented; it’s the players choice to get what they want and other than a small number of cases, it’s not necessary for anyone to have a full set, or any Ascended gear if people don’t want it.
That’s part of the problem with your argument; you’re not willing to discuss within the context of what Anet (and many other gamers) define as grinding which they use to design the game. That’s just disingenuous. Until you start framing your ‘game is grindy’ argument around the definition that Anet uses to develop it, it’s just a lot of nonsense.
Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread.
“Not reasonable” does not mean “something I would not enjoy”.
I don’t see what YOU enjoy has to do with it. Anet develops the game with certain concepts in mind. You choose to pay them and spend your time to experience it. If you don’t like it, you really only have two choices; put up with it or leave. The feedback on the forums is not a “I expect this change” cross your arms and pout. This is even more poignant when Anet clarifies their position on the matter, and you decide to … ignore it.
This whole thing seems like this is just a case of you misunderstanding the client/vendor relationship.
Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread. Again, it’s a question of what the player will do to succeed as much as what options Anet gives them to do that. Part of the reward of playing the content where a player does need to earn gear to succeed is overcoming that obstacle. You don’t get this, or refuse to acknowledge it’s part of what Anet wants to provide some players in some limited cases. It’s not prevalent in the game.
Just see Vayne’s post a bit above mine – he claims that he knew a lot of people felt they didn’t have anything do to at max level because a lot of people were complaining on the forum about it. If we see a lot of people complaining about grind on the forum (and better to do that in a single topic than have dozen topics about the same thing), maybe ArenaNet will do something about it.
Spamming posts does not help. Just because a thread has an overwhelming number of posts does not indicate it’s more of an issue to players than one that does not. The fact that ANet has replied with their position on this is pretty much a /thread right there.
The thousands of people who posted over the course of 9 months across 4 closed by mods threads about the loot disappearance fiasco that we experienced when they nerfed Dye Drops would like to explain to you how wrong you are about that statement.
They could but it would be stupid. This isn’t a bug or something extraordinary. This is just QQing about how the game is intended to work.
As for the rest of you; if the game is work for you, it’s because you choose goals that make it work. IRL, I need to work, ingame, that doesn’t exist. I do what I want in whatever gear I’m willing to get and can succeed and compete. In the majority of situations, Anet does not make it’s players work for the things that allow you to succeed and compete.
There is something to be said about over extending yourself. 19 characters and no money is not really a good position to claim the Ascended gear making process is nonsense.
My main account (14 level 80s) has 132 karma as of last night after partially outfitting the latest 80 with temple armor.
Yes, that was my point. You indicate you have 14 level 80 characters, using karma to outfit them with temple armor. You’re not exactly ‘Ascended gear’ demographic so it’s questionable to use your experience as how hard it is to get Ascended gear.
Furthermore, your post is also a good indication of how (relatively) easy Anet makes it for people to get exotic gear for someone with 14 characters like yourself. Grind indeed.
I think we all need to take a step back and remind ourselves of what is required to get exotic gear so if people are serious about this topic, it’s based on some understanding of a reasonable amount of effort as a baseline.
I was here and I have no idea what you’re talking about. This isn’t a clever way of avoiding the ridiculous notion you made that people should have complained about Exotic gear being a grind for any reason.
It’s exactly as I suspected. People just want to keep lowering the bar because the game isn’t how they think it should be.
That’s pretty ridiculous. Why don’t you just argue that Anet just mail us whatever gear was want for nothing and see what happens? It seems that if anything requires any effort at all, people will just label it grind and think it’s a reason to QQ about it.
Claiming that people who want to remove grind just want everything handled to them is the same as claiming that people who want grind are failures who cannot achieve anything in real life and, being both incompetent and useless, have nothing else to do other than try to use time spent in MMORPGs instead of using talent and skill to achieve something. In other words, both are just straw maws.
Grind doesn’t really keep people interested in the game. Content keeps people interested in the game. Grind may make people endure the game, but it’s far from being the same thing.
You were indicating that people should have complained about something that is NOT an issue to prevent unwanted and non-existent problems in the game. That’s just ridiculous. Don’t justify that kind of bad behaviour as good for the game.
Anyone that thinks exotic gear is a grind in this game shouldn’t be playing any MMO, period. Anyone that advocates complaining about the grindy nature of exotic gear, for ANY reason has no credibility.
I’m not going to explain to you why the relationship between grind and BiS exists in MMOs but if you can’t acknowledge how easy it is to get exotic gear, you’re going to have a hard time getting anyone to take you seriously, including Anet. If you’re serious about the content in this thread, you have to acknowledge a minimum threshold of effort needed on the player’s part to show they give a care about game progression. Exotic is well within that threshold. If you can’t do that, you’re simply advocating a ‘give them cake’ attitude.
I can’t believe I just read someone complain about the cost of exotic gear ><.
Arguably, if the community as a whole had complained enough about exotic gear, maybe we would not have had ascended gear at all. And GW2 would have been considerably less grindy than it is today.
That’s pretty ridiculous. Why don’t you just argue that Anet just mail us whatever gear was want for nothing and see what happens? It seems that if anything requires any effort at all, people will just label it grind and think it’s a reason to QQ about it.
Does anyone here complaining about the grind have any reasonable limit to what they are willing to do for gear or should we just complain until the point where we expect everything for free? You’re showing your TRUE colours here.
The community as a whole doesn’t even think the current model is a problem. I would have serious issues with the COMMUNITY if as a whole, it complained about Exotic gear ‘grind’.
It’s ages ago that I was a new 80, back at the beginning of the game. I still remember with horror trying to survive Orr in my green gear. Trying being the operative word. No one but no one can tell me exotic gear is ‘just a skin’ and doesn’t contribute markedly to your survivability. And guess what… unless you’re willing to spend RL cash (which involves yet another grind, though out of game), you’re going to need to grind either crafting materials or gold.
I can’t believe I just read someone complain about the cost of exotic gear ><.
Again, player experiences vary so it’s not sensible for Anet to sway to the whim of everyone. The game is not everything to everyone and it can’t be. The best they can do is set there target for the game experience and go for that. It’s ignorant when people wave that off as irrelevant because it doesn’t suit their desire or notions of what it should be. If their targets for the game don’t suit you, you have options available to you, including to not grind for gear that isn’t necessary to access content and compete in the game.
I guess it’s easy to see which one was the right answer, and which one was the wrong one.
Right or Wrong, that’s the past and If that is indicative of Anet’s reflection on what they thought was a mistake, then we can assume they put much thought into there approach and are willing to fix them if they see fit, not if enough players complain. We know there pattern. It’s quite open to players feedback but it’s also inline with industry standards.
Because of that, I’m not going to second guess Colin when he explains Anet’s position on the effort needed to get stuff in this game and neither should anyone else. The statement in this thread is pretty definitive. If people want to be convincing, they can’t just tell Anet their definition of grind is wrong.
Maybe they change the process for Ascended, but I’m confident will won’t happen because it’s too grindy because they don’t think it is; it’s more likely they will change it in conjunction with the game development if they do decide to do something (stupid) like gear gate content.
There is something to be said about over extending yourself. 19 characters and no money is not really a good position to claim the Ascended gear making process is nonsense.
Yes, that’s my point … you got their attention, they responded. More posts doesn’t change the outcome. The only reason this thread persists is because of campaigning.
Just see Vayne’s post a bit above mine – he claims that he knew a lot of people felt they didn’t have anything do to at max level because a lot of people were complaining on the forum about it. If we see a lot of people complaining about grind on the forum (and better to do that in a single topic than have dozen topics about the same thing), maybe ArenaNet will do something about it.
Spamming posts does not help. Just because a thread has an overwhelming number of posts does not indicate it’s more of an issue to players than one that does not. The fact that ANet has replied with their position on this is pretty much a /thread right there.
I like the idea that people are conceptualizing COMPLETELY new weapons for specializations. Unfortunately, I don’t think Anet will take that winning approach. It’s much o work for them to make many other sets of weapons for prof specs.
Though we can see that shield isn’t on par with Focus (I still think torch is stupid crap), I don’t believe the concept of the shield is necessarily one where you camp on it. Swap when you need it, pop the skill you need, go back to Focus.
I’m just glad they’ve now confirmed there’ll never be another tier of gear and they won’t raise the level cap either.
Except things change, and decisions change, so we may well see another tier of gear. After all, there wasn’t supposed to be gear past Exotic, either. That’s why Legendaries originally carried the same stat levels as Exotic Gear.
ANet’s word isn’t really worth a lot, quite frankly.
That’s just speculation. Did Anet actually say there would never be a tier past exotic? I don’t think they did.
People aren’t recognizing that this is one reason why GW2 does as well as it does. Relative to other games, it’s grind is very low. Therefore it attracts a good portion of the market.
Its already been said in this thread that WoW has less grind, SWTOR is similar to WOW and has less grind as does ESO. So comparative to others Western MMOs its grind is not low.
That’s a nice story. I can attest that from my own experience SWTOR does NOT have less grind that GW2 because SWTOR requires me to have certain tiers of gear to successfully complete much of the PVE content or compete in PVP. Furthermore, that gear isn’t just thrown at you .. it is, by definition, a grind to get it; repeated content to get gear or tokens from raid drops. Nothing is more grindy than that. GW2 does not do that to me, EVER. I can access almost everything this game has to offer with my ascended trinkets and exotic loadout and complete it successfully or compete with that in WvW. The BiS gear in this game does not differentiate more than the players skill.
I can only speak to what I have hear on WoW, which is that it’s KNOWN for it’s grind, though I have never personally experienced it.
People aren’t recognizing that this is one reason why GW2 does as well as it does. Relative to other games, it’s grind is very low. Therefore it attracts a good portion of the market.
You buy a ew $60 game , you get through 3/4 of the game with tons of lore. The last 10% is blocked off behind a pay wall.
This is what the expansion feels like in terms of story.
Living Story since the beginning has lead up to Mordremoth.
Does this expansion let you kill Mordremoth? It feels kind of messed up to play Living Story all the way to the climax and then be blocked by a pay wall.
IMO Living Story was a success because even though it was tiny 2 week updates it matches the amount of time to push out an expansion. Like pushing out content when it gets finished instead of building up to a release date to vomit all over the game.
It was like the players were on a ride with the developers with Living Story , now its like the developers are sitting back watching the ants in their new ant farm theme park. Living Story has improved greatly and it feels like we won’t be getting any more LS because some conservatives wanted an expac.
Personally, I attribute this approach to intelligent marketing … people should stop feeling so entitled to free stuff, including the conclusion of LS.
Put it this way … what if ALL of LS was behind a paywall. It would suck way more.
It’s flighty to leave a game that can’t seem to choose a vision and keep to said vision? It’s flighty to leave a game that claims it wants to have a no-grind philosophy, but completely contradicts said philosophy with things like Ascended Gear?
I don’t see the contraction that you are talking about. Ascended gear (the hard to get stuff) doesn’t contradict Anet’s no-grind philosophy because it’s not needed or doesn’t exclude players from content, with the exception of the higher level fractals. Even if you need it for higher level fractals, the progression for obtaining it is on par with fractal progression.
I don’t agree that Ascended gear was introduced for flighty people, so there’s no problem with me being neutral about it’s existence. That’s just your poor association.
I think Anet shouldn’t waste their time with those people. They should develop the game for the market they are targeting and if the market is there, they will have their share. The game can’t be everything to everyone.
You’re right.
Which is why Ascended shouldn’t exist in the first place at all. Because that’s not the market that ANet was ever targeting to begin with.
But ANet targeted them, and now we’re stuck with the Ascended Grind in a “no-grind philosphy” game. And as long as Ascended exists in its current form, we’re going to have yet another MMO where you still wind up grinding for BiS. Which this game was not supposed to be.
And, for the record, those people currently with one foot out the door that you don’t want ANet targeting? A good number of them are the original targets of this game. Not the people who want gear progression and grindy, time consuming BiS gear.
I won’t argue the Ascended point. I’m on the fence there. I agree it didn’t fit with the game because of the targeted market but on the other hand, it’s not needed so the impact of it’s existence is low for the market the game targets. I just feel it’s there if you want it, but it’s OK if you don’t have it.
I can’t comment on the things that define the people who are on the outs because I don’t have information telling me why they are leaving or unhappy with the game. I know you don’t have that information either.
What I do know is what I already stated. If they focus on the players they want to have and do a good job, they will keep and build on a strong, loyal playerbase. If players are flighty enough to leave over the questionable claim that the game is grindy, those players likely have other issues pushing them out the door, even if the grind was eliminated. Grind, especially the self-inflicted kind offered by this game, is not a motivator for the targeted players to leave the game. It’s a bad move to placate exiting players.
I could care less what they say because my reality is when I log in and play the game and see what I can do without full Ascended setups.
Then why did you even post in this thread to begin with? Seems to me the only one who wanted to argue for the sake of arguing was yourself, since you apparently don’t care about any of this in the first place.
Also it’s funny that you’re now saying you couldn’t care less what ANet says when just a moment ago you were arguing that it’s what ANet says that ultimately matters.
Anet’s word matters. When I say I don’t care what it is, that’s me saying it doesn’t impact or matter when I play the game. That’s not a contradiction. One is about control, the other is about impact.
Anet can say they intend to replace Charr with pink panda characters. That doesn’t impact my time ingame until it’s actually IN the game. It matters to me because I think it would be stupid to make that change and I don’t think I would like that change but until it actually HAPPENS, I’m going to enjoy this game as much as I do until it does.
I’m just presenting arguments for why the game shouldn’t change based on the premise it’s ‘grindy’ because I don’t feel it is. I think such a change would simply be a gesture to grasp at players with one foot out the door already. I think Anet shouldn’t waste their time with those people. They should develop the game for the market they are targeting and if the market is there, they will have their share. The game can’t be everything to everyone.
I guess you just want to argue, so I will make it simple for you.
As long as the game content doesn’t require players to have full Ascended gear, there isn’t an reason to choose to grind a full Ascended gear set when it’s possible to obtain it casually. If Anet wants to contradict what the game is with what they say it should be, your argument is with them. For me, that’s just indicative of game evolution. I could care less what they say because my reality is when I log in and play the game now and see what I can do without full Ascended setups. No amount of politicking changes that.
So you fail to see the game needs players to survive? And what is wrong with improving the game?
I don’t fail to see those things but I don’t agree that the game is so grindy that it’s a significant factor in attracting new players or fixing it would be an improvement.
It is relevant because I am a player (and not the only player) who finds an element of the game not so great and so inform the developer of this who might use that information to prevent to many players leaving the game because they also might experience the same problem. That is known as player feedback. It’s one of the main reasons games have forums.
It’s interesting when a group of players lose perspective because of their self proclaimed importance as players. Feedback isn’t the problem. No one is saying you can give it. I think the take away here is that what you define as grind isn’t relevant to the concept of the game because you aren’t developing it or defining what the game is, even if your an almighty player.
In fact, players rarely have an influence in defining the concept of the game. Those things are set in stone long before it’s even released. Most of these arguments stem from the idea of players that think they do. Admittedly, I can think of an example of a game where the concept was completely rethought after release; Star Wars Galaxies. I’m not even sure that was due to player feedback. If it was, I’m not sure that’s a positive example for the players that want to influence concept.
They can expect it, it doesn’t mean players need it to access content or be successful in the game. Those are two different things.
But according to you, all that matters is ANet’s intention as far as things like grind and what is needed or not needed.
And their intention is that everyone has Ascended, because it’s BiS.
I do like that irony but it’s a little out of context. The fact remains that Anet has not done anything ingame that requires me to have full Ascended gear and therefore, there is no reason for any player to subject themselves to grinding it out.
What do they actually mean when they say they intend for everyone to have Ascended gear? That doesn’t tell me they want everyone to rush out and grind it in the next week … in fact, that indicates to me they might rethink how people get it or how gear progresses in the game. I think we can agree it would be disastrous for Anet to release content gear locked to full Ascended without accounting for how it’s obtained. Based on how I’ve seen them react to other materials and gearing issues, I think there would be some adjustments.
That’s a personal perception issue then. It’s irrelevant if someone expects players to get Ascended,
Except the ones expecting players to get Ascended is ANet themselves, as per Colin’s statements, so it’s perfectly relevant.
They can expect it, it doesn’t mean players need it to access content or be successful in the game. Those things aren’t related. Perhaps Anet has some plans we don’t know about where their expectations for players to need Ascended are actually IN the game, but for now, it’s not.
Oow wait you are fine with that, you even tell them to leave. Thats completely no problem for the game. The fact that income and so likely player-base has been dropping since launch is perfectly fine of course.
Yes, In fact, I encourage people to leave if they don’t like playing it. I’m smart enough to know that not every game can be everything for everyone and I’m smart enough to know that if people think this game is a grind, they don’t understand what this game is about and who it caters to. GW2 shouldn’t try to be a Wow-clone. It should stick to it’s current business model. It works, otherwise they would have packed it in long ago.
Your attempt to link declining game population and income with grind is cute, but not based on any actual evidence; at least no information you have access to.
BTW ‘need’ is not something I see as a requirement for something to be grind. But it’s something many people bring up and what Colin mentioned as part of there ‘no grind philosophy’ so that’s why I to talk about it.
It’s not relevant what you think is a requirement for grind because you don’t develop the game around your idea. On the other hand, Colin does mention it because that IS what is relevant. Anet develops the game around their own concept of no-grinding. Twisting the definition to suit your own argument, then claiming Anet fail at their own no-grind approach because it doesn’t suit your own definition is just nonsense.
Sorry, Obtena. Chris Whiteside said in this very thread that Anet considers ascended top tier gear and expects people to get it. And besides that, I do not include ‘need’ in my definition of grind. If something is too much work, it’s a grind and I don’t do it. Period. Needed or not.
That’s a personal perception issue then. It’s irrelevant if someone expects players to get Ascended, it’s not necessary to play the game. Perhaps Anet has plans for content that requires Ascended. If that’s the case, we will have to wait a while before QQIng about grinding.
If your definition of grind doesn’t include need, then it’s not relevant to the discussion because it’s not you that is developing this game around your own definition of grind, it’s Anet.
I remember several raiding nights in vanilla wow I’d get two items for four hours of fairly enjoyable challenging work. That experience DOES NOT EXIST HERE.
That’s true, it doesn’t have that experience and that’s a good thing because if people want the WoW experience, they should just play WoW. GW2 provides it’s own experience. That’s why people play GW2.
You want to compare GW2’s current grinds to anything? I’d say.. the frostsaber rep, vanilla wow, would be appropriate.
You’re all missing a critical aspect of what defines grind; “NEED”. No part of GW2 requires the ‘grindy’ Ascended gear in the same way that you and your other WoW collegues describe what gear you DID need to do new content raids in WoW. Therefore, the WoW to GW2 gearing comparison is irrelevant if you are trying to say one is more grind than the other.
How would I know if I like it if I haven’t tried it? To try this expansion I am forced to buy it. #mindblown
Did you buy this game knowing if you liked it? Generally people don’t.
Actually I did. Anet was very good at giving information on the game before it’s release. I liked the idea of dynamic events and open world no loot stealing.
I did not mind the lack of guild halls at release because I thought they would be added in some update. I did not mind the lack of structured pvp modes because I thought that those would be added in as well.
Most of these features in this “expansion” as I said before somewhere were actually supposed to be a part of the core game. Who says you ask? I says, and so do others.
It’s not really relevant if you or others SAY something should be part of the core game. I and others could use the same logic to say it’s not. There is nothing to indicate Anet won’t give you the quality and amount of information about the expansion that you did for the original release, so I don’t get the problem here. There simply isn’t enough info to claim the expansion is this or that.
what people in this thread are trying to point out, is that regardless of what colin means when he says grindy, the game overall in fact feels very grindy to them. So much so that whenever they mention a lack of grind the players feel a strong disconect with how they expereince the game, and what the developers think is happening.
this bothers them a lot, not just because grind exists, but it makes it seem like the developers arent really on the same page as the players.
Sure, players have these perceptions. Let’s just say there is a disconnect. What is the alternative? Perhaps my big issue is that people feel it’s grindy but don’t recognize the measures Anet have in place to ease that feeling. Other than having new content for every time you venture out to get mats for things you want to make, what wouldn’t be grindy for people? At some point you DO hit a wall here. People DO have to recognize the very real limits of design and programming resources available to appease whatever definition they have for what is grindy.
Frankly, I think people complaining about grind are being obtuse, naive and unreasonable here. They want NO grinding? They need to stop playing MMO’s then. The fact they thought there would be no grind, just because Anet said so demonstrates how little they understand about how MMO’s work in the first place.
