Guild Wars 2

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

I can’t believe I just read someone complain about the cost of exotic gear ><.

Arguably, if the community as a whole had complained enough about exotic gear, maybe we would not have had ascended gear at all. And GW2 would have been considerably less grindy than it is today.

That’s pretty ridiculous. Why don’t you just argue that Anet just mail us whatever gear was want for nothing and see what happens? It seems that if anything requires any effort at all, people will just label it grind and think it’s a reason to QQ about it.

Does anyone here complaining about the grind have any reasonable limit to what they are willing to do for gear or should we just complain until the point where we expect everything for free? You’re showing your TRUE colours here.

The community as a whole doesn’t even think the current model is a problem. I would have serious issues with the COMMUNITY if as a whole, it complained about Exotic gear ‘grind’.

Obtena.7952:

That’s pretty ridiculous. Why don’t you just argue that Anet just mail us whatever gear was want for nothing and see what happens? It seems that if anything requires any effort at all, people will just label it grind and think it’s a reason to QQ about it.

Claiming that people who want to remove grind just want everything handled to them is the same as claiming that people who want grind are failures who cannot achieve anything in real life and, being both incompetent and useless, have nothing else to do other than try to use time spent in MMORPGs instead of using talent and skill to achieve something. In other words, both are just straw maws.

Grind doesn’t really keep people interested in the game. Content keeps people interested in the game. Grind may make people endure the game, but it’s far from being the same thing.

In the end, every single game is a grind. Because it is the nature of a basic game mechanic to do the same stuff over and over again.

The problem with GW2 actually is, that ANet seems very bad at hiding the grind behind interesting stuff.

Look, play any Mass Effect game. Take cover, shoot stuff, take cover. Till the game is over.
That’s pretty much it. It certainly qualifies as grind.
BUT, you are actually distracted by the story sooo much, of the suspense and of the curiousity, that taking cover, shooting stuff and taking cover again does not feel repetative.
In the end, it is more or less what you do for 20 hours straight and at the end you are sad that it is over.

Now try to get the accound bound stuff needed for a full set of ascended gear for a single character.
There is absolutely nothing distracting from the grind for the stuff. The grind is just simply that, a plain grind.

People telling other people that they got the stuff for an entire ascended set by just playing must be spending thousands of hours in game. Which is like neglecting that playing a game for close to 10,000 hours is not what the reasoning behind item aquisition should be.

So the grind in GW2 feels more grindy than in any other game, because there is no distraction from it. It is emotionally unrewarding, boring and uninspired.

That’s why it sucks.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

aerial.7021:

Lheimroo.2947:

~

~

~

Well-founded or not, it’s an opinion. I have full ascended items on three characters and I’ll never have to grind on those characters again. Not for gear.

More to the point, I have a boatload of other characters who don’t have a single piece of ascended gear…well maybe rings from fractals that I’ve done but that’s it, and none of those characters are excluded from content.

That’s the difference that you refuse to acknowledge.

You have one aspect of the game that you can’t stand and you blame everything else for it, but you don’t acknowledge that others, not just me, find other MMOs more grindy than this one.

You have an opinion and it’s a strong one and everything is jaded based on that opinion. I don’t think you could approach this game in an unbiased manner because you’re looking for things to support your dislike of the business model. That’s the worst kind of science.

~

Guild Wars has always had grind for cosmetics. It was always supposed to. I don’t see why you can’t recognize that.

I did not play a lot of GW1 but as far as I know GW1 was way more about lore and PvP then cosmetics. Mini’s you mainly got from birthdays and then there where like two sets of armor of what at least one was really grindy?

Could be wrong but thats what I know about it. I don’t think you can really compare that to how GW2 works. It’s much more an MMO where collecting items is also a more important part of the game. So turning that into a grind also different then doing that in GW1 I would think.

Then again, I could not really start a discussion with you about GW1 as I simply don’t know enough about it.

Guild Wars 1 was a grind for cosmetics. Just about everything in that game was about having different look to your armor or weapon.

A basic set of armor costs 10% of the elite armor, but elite armor had the same stats. Exactly the same stats.

The people who came from Guild Wars 1, always expected this cosmetics grind. What we didn’t want was ascended gear, or level cap increases. That’s because we had the same stats from the first game through all the rest of the games. We didn’t want or need more. We didn’t want ascended gear, because it was too hard to get and it remains, in my mind, too hard to get. The only good thing about it to me is that you don’t need it. I don’t feel it adds anything to the game.

There were two sets of armor that was massively hard to get and a boatload of rare weapon skins as well.

I tried to get a frog scepter for years in Guild Wars 1. Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it. I ran the dungeon bogroot growths until I couldn’t look at it any more. No frog scepter. Then even if you did get one as a drop, it might not have been for the stats you wanted anyway.

There were also minis that were so rare, even as rich as I got, I’d never have been able to afford them. The mini polar bear for example, if you wanted to buy it with gold, you’d have to farm endlessly for years.

And you’d have to buy it from another player, because there was no marketplace there. You’d have to stand around kamadan and negotiate to buy or sell anything.

So Guild Wars 2, which had the update model you keep saying is better, still had the same type of grind for cosmetics.

Nothing in GW1 took long to get. Even Obsidian armor I got in less than 2 weeks by soloing Hierophant’s. In a solo Hierophant run I got about 300k worth of items to sell. Do a couple of those runs and you had the gold for the most expensive stuff ingame.

Please don’t compare GW1 grind to GW2 grind. They’re not even on the same galaxy.

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

That’s pretty ridiculous. Why don’t you just argue that Anet just mail us whatever gear was want for nothing and see what happens? It seems that if anything requires any effort at all, people will just label it grind and think it’s a reason to QQ about it.

Claiming that people who want to remove grind just want everything handled to them is the same as claiming that people who want grind are failures who cannot achieve anything in real life and, being both incompetent and useless, have nothing else to do other than try to use time spent in MMORPGs instead of using talent and skill to achieve something. In other words, both are just straw maws.

Grind doesn’t really keep people interested in the game. Content keeps people interested in the game. Grind may make people endure the game, but it’s far from being the same thing.

You were indicating that people should have complained about something that is NOT an issue to prevent unwanted and non-existent problems in the game. That’s just ridiculous. Don’t justify that kind of bad behaviour as good for the game.

Anyone that thinks exotic gear is a grind in this game shouldn’t be playing any MMO, period. Anyone that advocates complaining about the grindy nature of exotic gear, for ANY reason has no credibility.

I’m not going to explain to you why the relationship between grind and BiS exists in MMOs but if you can’t acknowledge how easy it is to get exotic gear, you’re going to have a hard time getting anyone to take you seriously, including Anet. If you’re serious about the content in this thread, you have to acknowledge a minimum threshold of effort needed on the player’s part to show they give a care about game progression. Exotic is well within that threshold. If you can’t do that, you’re simply advocating a ‘give them cake’ attitude.

Obtena.7952:

Anyone that thinks exotic gear is a grind in this game shouldn’t be playing any MMO, period.

You weren’t around here by the time of release, were you? By then people still had the illusion that GW2 was not going to lower itself to the level of other MMOs.

Obtena.7952:

I’m not going to explain to you why the relationship between grind and BiS exists in MMOs but if you can’t acknowledge how easy it is to get exotic gear, you’re going to have a hard time getting anyone to take you seriously, including Anet.

In the original Guild Wars, BiS was earned basically as soon as you left the tutorial. “It wasn’t a MMORPG!”, you could say. Irrelevant. People still kept playing it for years, and there are still people playing it despite a lack of support from ArenaNet.

In all MMORPGs, you need to grind for BiS. You claim that’s a good thing. I say it’s not. Just like in the original Guild Wars the goal was to have fun and not to endure a grind, the same could have been true in GW2.

I was here and I have no idea what you’re talking about. This isn’t a clever way of avoiding the ridiculous notion you made that people should have complained about Exotic gear being a grind for any reason.

It’s exactly as I suspected. People just want to keep lowering the bar because the game isn’t how they think it should be.

I like thread and many player post. I find the problem with arena net guild wars 2 “No-grind philosophy” and it is very sad and wrong.

Why sad? because arena net changed meaning after 2 years guild wars 2 release. No grind mean no grind. Example; if i say no talk, it mean what it say, I can not change meaning after 2 year and say, it mean something else, I think that is problem with arena net philosophy; it is not true. Word= Action. If word is not action; is not true. My question for old players who play guild wars 2 for 1-2 years; did you realize no action in no grind philosphy?

Why you blame arena net now after 2 year for philosophy word without action? why take so long?

Why wrong? It is wrong for arena net to not make word into action. I read past review and experience some; grind, not too much because i am still new. Wrong also for arena net to change the no-grind philosophy meaning any time without tell player. Player see the action different from the word, so why after 2 year to tell them? Player is important too.

It is not ok. Player use time for guild wars 2 and need to know what change and what not change. I think that is why so many player are angry because you did not tell them before after 2 year now; they are right to be angry and feel not important.

That is why some game company not do good because they think they can do anything they want and change anything they want without telling player why? Only for security reason; no telling but other reason, need to tell player. That’s all.

Obtena.7952:

There is something to be said about over extending yourself. 19 characters and no money is not really a good position to claim the Ascended gear making process is nonsense.

My main account (14 level 80s) has 132 karma as of last night after partially outfitting the latest 80 with temple armor.

You still hardly have to grind at all. Grinding is mostly if you want more cosmetic items.

Tachenon.5270:

Obtena.7952:

There is something to be said about over extending yourself. 19 characters and no money is not really a good position to claim the Ascended gear making process is nonsense.

My main account (14 level 80s) has 132 karma as of last night after partially outfitting the latest 80 with temple armor.

Yes, that was my point. You indicate you have 14 level 80 characters, using karma to outfit them with temple armor. You’re not exactly ‘Ascended gear’ demographic so it’s questionable to use your experience as how hard it is to get Ascended gear.

Furthermore, your post is also a good indication of how (relatively) easy Anet makes it for people to get exotic gear for someone with 14 characters like yourself. Grind indeed.

I think we all need to take a step back and remind ourselves of what is required to get exotic gear so if people are serious about this topic, it’s based on some understanding of a reasonable amount of effort as a baseline.

WhiteKnight.6759:

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Have a great night. I won’t be responding again.

C’mon. We both know that, sooner or later, yes you will. In fact, the post following yours is a great example:

Tachenon.5270:

Stark.1350:

Alright, I’m going to ask everyone in this thread a very simple question.

Say ascended armor was made much easier to obtain. Say it only took a month to complete “challenging content” to fully deck out your character.

With nothing else to work towards, yes or no – would you get bored with the game?

No. Having all my guys in the best available gear would not make me bored with the game. What will make me bored with the game, and has has made me bored with the game previously, is the lack of new things to do with my characters. I want more quests/missions/stories (and big, sprawling, fully-decked out zones in which to experience them). Those things will keep me going indefinitely. Especially if there’s enough of it so that there’s some variety along the way for each new character.

Imagine it’s 2012. Guild Wars 2 was released a few months ago, but now the number of players is falling. ArenaNet is discussing it at their offices, and they ask: “Players are leaving! What should we do?”.

Stark’s reply would have been: “Players are leaving because they don’t have enough to grind! Let’s give them more stuff to grind for!”. That’s what we got in GW2: ascended gear and Fractals.

Tachenon’s reply would have been: “Players are leaving because they don’t have enough things to do! Let’s give them more stuff to do and more ways to do it!”. That’s what we got in the original Guild Wars: a brand new chapter, nearly as big as the original game, without new gear tiers but with more professions, maps, missions and skills.

ArenaNet said they will never do something like ascended gear again. They have not been adding much to Fractals. Meanwhile, the original Guild Wars was successful enough for ArenaNet to grow massively and be able to make Guild Wars 2.

I guess it’s easy to see which one was the right answer, and which one was the wrong one.

This is a really fantastic example. I guess the only question I’d ask about it is what’s the speed at which Arena Net could have introduced enough new content to make a difference, compared with the speed at which they could have implemented ascended gear?

I played GW2 for a longer stretch without getting burned out than any MMO-style game I’ve played previously, including the original Guild Wars (to which I have returned many times over the years). I think it was about a year and a half after GW2’s launch that I took my first break. It was after the Tower in Kessex but before the attack on Lion’s Arch. LS1 just wasn’t doing it for me. I decided I’d had enough and took a break that lasted roughly five months.

Since returning, I’ve not been absent for any great length of time, and the announcement of the coming expansion has served to keep the interest kindled. Despite re-experiencing the NPE in all its glory on my 5 new lowbies. Yup. Hating the NPE more than ever these days. But that’s grist for another thread.

Personally I just think the stats damage and armors should be a bit more randomized, it feels like everyone have the same damage items, which make it feels not really unique.

Hey I’m not asking for a Diablo-like itemization, that’s the extreme, and I don’t like it, but a bit more uniqueness in stats wouldn’t hurt…

And if the problem for that is PVP then why not just set a damage standard just for PVP..

Just my 2 cents.

Geneaux.9547:

And today I learned that players don’t want to work towards anything and have everything handed to them on silver platter, grind or no grind.

http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Aerospace-Engineer-V-Job-Description.aspx

Can’t speak for anyone else, though that’s on the order of what I’m willing to work at.

These games? Pff. Not so much. There’s a certain wisdom in knowing what’s good and useful to work hard at, and to me, these games are so far from making the list as to render such comments as this downright comical.

My commitment to sparkle motion should not merely be doubted, but known far and wide s being non-existent.

And before some smug little part time burger flipper tried to tell me how lazy that must mean I am, I make craft beers, do my own custom cabinetry and woodworking, am a hobbyist electrical engineer when it comes to messing around with my own tweaking of computer hardware, a frequent world traveler for both work and leisure, a once-a-week member of a local church’s choral group and a regular volunteer down at my local food shelter.

More? I’m also a full time husband of a wife that firmly believes that going mountain biking and hiking on everything is the perfect way to spend a weekend. Consequently, we do a lot of those, as well as going to beaches with friends and having regular once or twice weekly barbecue cook outs on our patio.

I’m not willing to sacrifice any of that to ‘work harder’ at a game. Frankly, I feel it to be a giant joke to work at these things at all. Defeat the point much? It certainly would for me, to them this into yet another laborious task in my life.

So hers your sign. I’ll take all the silver platter service. You can try to, I dunno, pretend you’re the Michael Phelps of achievement point hunting or something.

Whatever it is that motivated people to try so hard to work at these games harder than they might well work at anything else at all fails entirely to grab me. I don’t get it and I don’t rightly care to start trying now.

I’ve been saying to posts like this ’ get a real job and accomplish something in your life. Then come back and tell us how lazy we are for not being interested in working super hard in video game land’ for years. Consider it implied here too.

naiasonod.9265:

Geneaux.9547:

And today I learned that players don’t want to work towards anything and have everything handed to them on silver platter, grind or no grind.

http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Aerospace-Engineer-V-Job-Description.aspx

Can’t speak for anyone else, though that’s on the order of what I’m willing to work at.

These games? Pff. Not so much. There’s a certain wisdom in knowing what’s good and useful to work hard at, and to me, these games are so far from making the list as to render such comments as this downright comical.

My commitment to sparkle motion should not merely be doubted, but known far and wide s being non-existent.

And before some smug little part time burger flipper tried to tell me how lazy that must mean I am, I make craft beers, do my own custom cabinetry and woodworking, am a hobbyist electrical engineer when it comes to messing around with my own tweaking of computer hardware, a frequent world traveler for both work and leisure, a once-a-week member of a local church’s choral group and a regular volunteer down at my local food shelter.

More? I’m also a full time husband of a wife that firmly believes that going mountain biking and hiking on everything is the perfect way to spend a weekend. Consequently, we do a lot of those, as well as going to beaches with friends and having regular once or twice weekly barbecue cook outs on our patio.

I’m not willing to sacrifice any of that to ‘work harder’ at a game. Frankly, I feel it to be a giant joke to work at these things at all. Defeat the point much? It certainly would for me, to them this into yet another laborious task in my life.

So hers your sign. I’ll take all the silver platter service. You can try to, I dunno, pretend you’re the Michael Phelps of achievement point hunting or something.

Whatever it is that motivated people to try so hard to work at these games harder than they might well work at anything else at all fails entirely to grab me. I don’t get it and I don’t rightly care to start trying now.

I’ve been saying to posts like this ’ get a real job and accomplish something in your life. Then come back and tell us how lazy we are for not being interested in working super hard in video game land’ for years. Consider it implied here too.

That one is a post that could end with a /thread

naiasonod.9265:

And before some smug little part time burger flipper tried to tell me how lazy that must mean I am, I make craft beers, do my own custom cabinetry and woodworking, am a hobbyist electrical engineer when it comes to messing around with my own tweaking of computer hardware, a frequent world traveler for both work and leisure, a once-a-week member of a local church’s choral group and a regular volunteer down at my local food shelter.

More? I’m also a full time husband of a wife that firmly believes that going mountain biking and hiking on everything is the perfect way to spend a weekend. Consequently, we do a lot of those, as well as going to beaches with friends and having regular once or twice weekly barbecue cook outs on our patio.

“Dude, you only do all that, pffft . . .”

:)

I’m luckily not married (luckily for her, not for me), have no children, but I have a fair variety of my own issues to work through. As for hobbies, one of them is trying to plot together how to get out of the “minimum wage trap” step by step.

I play more meat-side tabletop games than I do GW2. And by that I don’t mean D&D but things like Settlers of Catan, Munchkin, Risk, but never doing Monopoly again.

Oh, and fiddling around with homebrew variant design for the aforementioned games. Except Monopoly. We are never touching that game again. (EVER.)

I’m not willing to sacrifice any of that to ‘work harder’ at a game. Frankly, I feel it to be a giant joke to work at these things at all. Defeat the point much? It certainly would for me, to them this into yet another laborious task in my life.

I prefer to work for something steadily over time. As in, if I put in X amount of time a day, it should eventually find its way to me. This is, interestingly, on par with what one considers “learning a new skill” via self-teaching.

But when it comes to things like . . . I dunno, precursors and Ascended? Could care less, I’ll get it when I get it. I long ago weighed the benefits of going all-out to try to earn them as quickly as possible and realized they were entirely unnecessary . . . and probably were not going anywhere so time was not a factor.

I’m patient enough to wait for RNGeezus to bless me with a precursor I can use, then worry about how to make my Legendary.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

First, the relevant crafting had to go to 500 . . . which was not cheap until the recent glut of snowflakes.

I’d just like to note on this point: It’s still not cheap.

Weaponcrafting 400-500 costs ~126g currently.
Tailoring isn’t -as- bad, at ~50g

Both are still very expensive prices, though.

I can bring Engineering 1-700 for far less gold than either of those in WoW, and the economy on most WoW servers is completely shot. (And Engineering is one of the most expensive, and yet funnily enough, most useless crafting professions)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I suspect the price in components of Ascended Armor and Weapons was somewhat related to watching people turn in components to the vendors during those two events. And as such, that is what calibrated the cost.

I really wish they’d stop calibrating costs of crafting mats based on whether there’s a flood in the market or not. I remember they did that with the second halloween event for things like the mini bloody prince.

It wasn’t fun, at all.

But they at least lowered candy corn requirements for 2014. I only wish they’d repeat that kind of thing with stuff like Ascended. Nothing about collecting 10800 silk is fun.

naiasonod.9265:

And before some smug little part time burger flipper tried to tell me how lazy that must mean I am,

I’m a part time burger flipper and I wholly agree with you.

I don’t play games to work. That’s what a job is for.

Though if ANet wants to pay me to play their game, then sure. I’ll get on their gear grind locomotive and do work.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

naiasonod.9265:

And before some smug little part time burger flipper tried to tell me how lazy that must mean I am, I make craft beers, do my own custom cabinetry and woodworking, am a hobbyist electrical engineer when it comes to messing around with my own tweaking of computer hardware, a frequent world traveler for both work and leisure, a once-a-week member of a local church’s choral group and a regular volunteer down at my local food shelter.

More? I’m also a full time husband of a wife that firmly believes that going mountain biking and hiking on everything is the perfect way to spend a weekend. Consequently, we do a lot of those, as well as going to beaches with friends and having regular once or twice weekly barbecue cook outs on our patio.

“Dude, you only do all that, pffft . . .”

:)

I’m luckily not married (luckily for her, not for me), have no children, but I have a fair variety of my own issues to work through. As for hobbies, one of them is trying to plot together how to get out of the “minimum wage trap” step by step.

I play more meat-side tabletop games than I do GW2. And by that I don’t mean D&D but things like Settlers of Catan, Munchkin, Risk, but never doing Monopoly again.

Oh, and fiddling around with homebrew variant design for the aforementioned games. Except Monopoly. We are never touching that game again. (EVER.)

I’m not willing to sacrifice any of that to ‘work harder’ at a game. Frankly, I feel it to be a giant joke to work at these things at all. Defeat the point much? It certainly would for me, to them this into yet another laborious task in my life.

I prefer to work for something steadily over time. As in, if I put in X amount of time a day, it should eventually find its way to me. This is, interestingly, on par with what one considers “learning a new skill” via self-teaching.

But when it comes to things like . . . I dunno, precursors and Ascended? Could care less, I’ll get it when I get it. I long ago weighed the benefits of going all-out to try to earn them as quickly as possible and realized they were entirely unnecessary . . . and probably were not going anywhere so time was not a factor.

I’m patient enough to wait for RNGeezus to bless me with a precursor I can use, then worry about how to make my Legendary.

Totally cool, may. I used to tabletop game a lot, and I rather miss out. Now all my friends are all ‘blah blah kids’ and ‘yadda yadda Republicans’, and sometimes ‘arglebargle werk’, and that’s fine. Those are all fine things to care about. Good things even.

Especially about kids. I understand they need to be free in occasion and can be testify cook tricks if you raise them right, like my personal favorite of ‘please don’t throw daddy in the old folks home when I’m old and senile’, but sometimes …

Sometimes, all I really wanna do is kill many welps, r punch a space kitten in the face, or recreationally wage war against a magic-eating ancient god dragon or six.

I personally like the ascended gear they’ve so divisively thrown in. That to me is a sweet spot of giving supportive like e something to work towards that doesn’t feel to me like it’s work. I just go do what Io and one day, when IED I have enough stuff to make a new ascended something, sometimes I do have.

Things like that don’t seem like work to me, if I can do what amuses me and get there eventually anyway.

The precursor situation would annoy me terribly if I wanted a legendary though. There is no gradually getting there to those. RNGeezus, Spreadsheet Wars and lots of gold farming to supplement it, or nadda.

Obtena.7952:

I was here and I have no idea what you’re talking about. This isn’t a clever way of avoiding the ridiculous notion you made that people should have complained about Exotic gear being a grind for any reason.

It’s exactly as I suspected. People just want to keep lowering the bar because the game isn’t how they think it should be.

Actually, people sort of did complain that specific exotic gear was too much grind. :O

Specifically, the complaint was that dungeon tokens did not drop in sufficient quantities. As a result, ANet upped the token rewards per path to the current 60+. People also started farming the first bosses (since tokens were per boss) rather than doing the whole path — which is one reason that the big token drop comes from the end boss now.

ANet has experimented with an awful lot of different ways to pace rewards out. It’s in their interest to keep people around without going so far that people give up and quit. Pretty much every reward system that people experience as grind now is a direct result of players trying to get rewards as fast as possible and ANet doing there best to slow people down while trying not to reach a point where a huge majority of players think they’ve gone too far.

Obtena.7952:

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Frankly, this topic should be locked:

1. Anet replied to the concern
2. I think everyone has covered both sides of the topic thoroughly

Not much left. The only reason anyone would want to have it left open is because they are campaigning.

To be honest, the amount of posts help. The circular discussions don’t do anything, but it’s different for ArenaNet to see, “Look, there are 4 THOUSAND posts complaining about traits!” than “Look, there are 8 posts talking about how Defiance sucks”.

Just see Vayne’s post a bit above mine – he claims that he knew a lot of people felt they didn’t have anything do to at max level because a lot of people were complaining on the forum about it. If we see a lot of people complaining about grind on the forum (and better to do that in a single topic than have dozen topics about the same thing), maybe ArenaNet will do something about it.

Spamming posts does not help. Just because a thread has an overwhelming number of posts does not indicate it’s more of an issue to players than one that does not. The fact that ANet has replied with their position on this is pretty much a /thread right there.

The thousands of people who posted over the course of 9 months across 4 closed by mods threads about the loot disappearance fiasco that we experienced when they nerfed Dye Drops would like to explain to you how wrong you are about that statement.

naiasonod.9265:

Geneaux.9547:

And today I learned that players don’t want to work towards anything and have everything handed to them on silver platter, grind or no grind.

http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Aerospace-Engineer-V-Job-Description.aspx

Can’t speak for anyone else, though that’s on the order of what I’m willing to work at.

These games? Pff. Not so much. There’s a certain wisdom in knowing what’s good and useful to work hard at, and to me, these games are so far from making the list as to render such comments as this downright comical.

My commitment to sparkle motion should not merely be doubted, but known far and wide s being non-existent.

And before some smug little part time burger flipper tried to tell me how lazy that must mean I am, I make craft beers, do my own custom cabinetry and woodworking, am a hobbyist electrical engineer when it comes to messing around with my own tweaking of computer hardware, a frequent world traveler for both work and leisure, a once-a-week member of a local church’s choral group and a regular volunteer down at my local food shelter.

More? I’m also a full time husband of a wife that firmly believes that going mountain biking and hiking on everything is the perfect way to spend a weekend. Consequently, we do a lot of those, as well as going to beaches with friends and having regular once or twice weekly barbecue cook outs on our patio.

I’m not willing to sacrifice any of that to ‘work harder’ at a game. Frankly, I feel it to be a giant joke to work at these things at all. Defeat the point much? It certainly would for me, to them this into yet another laborious task in my life.

So hers your sign. I’ll take all the silver platter service. You can try to, I dunno, pretend you’re the Michael Phelps of achievement point hunting or something.

Whatever it is that motivated people to try so hard to work at these games harder than they might well work at anything else at all fails entirely to grab me. I don’t get it and I don’t rightly care to start trying now.

I’ve been saying to posts like this ’ get a real job and accomplish something in your life. Then come back and tell us how lazy we are for not being interested in working super hard in video game land’ for years. Consider it implied here too.

Exactly! As a almost 30 years old guy who has full time job and bilion other things to do in his life… I just sometimes want to sit behind the computer for a while and slay some dragons or something else in dungeons with friends or just random strangers and get my loot. Nothing more nothing less. But by loot I mean something meaningful, not two blues and one green. I don’t want anything for free, but why can’t I get 1 piece of ascended gear for final boss in fractals (20+ once a day?) or Tequatl, or Triple Trouble or maybe new HoT dungeons. I don’t have time to farm gold or expensive materials for infusions and gear with slots for them in order to try higher fractals and I don’t want to buy it with real money either because it would feel like cheating to me.

If I wanted another job I would get one and work for money, not virtual items. It is really simple in my case… dungeons/bosses/pvp = fun – farming gold/materials = not fun. So far this game has not been delivering what I want which resulted in two very long breakes and I have a feeling that I will leave once again very soon… Im not spending money on gems when Im not playing ;-)

Gene Archer.8560:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

First, the relevant crafting had to go to 500 . . . which was not cheap until the recent glut of snowflakes.

I’d just like to note on this point: It’s still not cheap.

Weaponcrafting 400-500 costs ~126g currently.
Tailoring isn’t -as- bad, at ~50g

Both are still very expensive prices, though.

I can bring Engineering 1-700 for far less gold than either of those in WoW, and the economy on most WoW servers is completely shot. (And Engineering is one of the most expensive, and yet funnily enough, most useless crafting professions)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I suspect the price in components of Ascended Armor and Weapons was somewhat related to watching people turn in components to the vendors during those two events. And as such, that is what calibrated the cost.

I really wish they’d stop calibrating costs of crafting mats based on whether there’s a flood in the market or not. I remember they did that with the second halloween event for things like the mini bloody prince.

It wasn’t fun, at all.

But they at least lowered candy corn requirements for 2014. I only wish they’d repeat that kind of thing with stuff like Ascended. Nothing about collecting 10800 silk is fun.

naiasonod.9265:

And before some smug little part time burger flipper tried to tell me how lazy that must mean I am,

I’m a part time burger flipper and I wholly agree with you.

I don’t play games to work. That’s what a job is for.

Though if ANet wants to pay me to play their game, then sure. I’ll get on their gear grind locomotive and do work.

I used to flip burger myself. And sling tacos. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad for anybody that has a job these days no matter what it is.

I’m not so glad for those that are typically very young and think ‘I work almost twenty hours a week sometimes and I can make all the raids and I never have any difficulty farming for my loot and leveling and everyone else is just a lazy scrub that isn’t on my level and wants everything on a silver platter’.

It twists my skirts, as one of my colleagues like to phrase it. It puts a run in my pantyhose. So yep. No hate for burger flipping.

Just s lot of snide dismissal for the wee ones that have nothing but free time to do anything they live whenever whim strikes when they treat the rest of us with far fuller lives like we’re lazy because we’re not eager to need to spend 60 hours a week for the next year trying to get the unobtanium with any sort of believable chance at actually succeeding.

Or panning us for not being add invested at doing everything amazingly and buckling down like this is our personal Olympics and the very soul of or pride is on the line.

In very proud of my cabinets. Ice worked many years to acquire just the right tools and just the right practiced skill to make the sorts of cabinets and little tables I think are gorgeous. I could make a living doing that, though I think turning it into work would take the fun out of it for me.

I have no more right to belittle and kick those that can’t or won’t make their own cabinets and office furniture as being scrubs and wanting IKEA to deliver everything to them in silver platters than they have to ridicule me or anyone like me for simply having different priorities.

tigirius.9014:

Obtena.7952:

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Frankly, this topic should be locked:

1. Anet replied to the concern
2. I think everyone has covered both sides of the topic thoroughly

Not much left. The only reason anyone would want to have it left open is because they are campaigning.

To be honest, the amount of posts help. The circular discussions don’t do anything, but it’s different for ArenaNet to see, “Look, there are 4 THOUSAND posts complaining about traits!” than “Look, there are 8 posts talking about how Defiance sucks”.

Just see Vayne’s post a bit above mine – he claims that he knew a lot of people felt they didn’t have anything do to at max level because a lot of people were complaining on the forum about it. If we see a lot of people complaining about grind on the forum (and better to do that in a single topic than have dozen topics about the same thing), maybe ArenaNet will do something about it.

Spamming posts does not help. Just because a thread has an overwhelming number of posts does not indicate it’s more of an issue to players than one that does not. The fact that ANet has replied with their position on this is pretty much a /thread right there.

The thousands of people who posted over the course of 9 months across 4 closed by mods threads about the loot disappearance fiasco that we experienced when they nerfed Dye Drops would like to explain to you how wrong you are about that statement.

They could but it would be stupid. This isn’t a bug or something extraordinary. This is just QQing about how the game is intended to work.

As for the rest of you; if the game is work for you, it’s because you choose goals that make it work. IRL, I need to work, ingame, that doesn’t exist. I do what I want in whatever gear I’m willing to get and can succeed and compete. In the majority of situations, Anet does not make it’s players work for the things that allow you to succeed and compete.

Obtena.7952:

In the majority of situations, Anet does not make it’s players work for the things that allow you to succeed and compete.

“Majority” is not “always”.

Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread. Again, it’s a question of what the player will do to succeed as much as what options Anet gives them to do that. Part of the reward of playing the content where a player does need to earn gear to succeed is overcoming that obstacle. You don’t get this, or refuse to acknowledge it’s part of what Anet wants to provide some players in some limited cases. It’s not prevalent in the game.

Obtena.7952:

Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread.

“Not reasonable” does not mean “something I would not enjoy”.

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread.

“Not reasonable” does not mean “something I would not enjoy”.

No, it means “not reasonable”. As in “it’s unreasonable to demand or expect such”.

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread.

“Not reasonable” does not mean “something I would not enjoy”.

I don’t see what YOU enjoy has to do with it. Anet develops the game with certain concepts in mind. You choose to pay them and spend your time to experience it. If you don’t like it, you really only have two choices; put up with it or leave. The feedback on the forums is not a “I expect this change” cross your arms and pout. This is even more poignant when Anet clarifies their position on the matter, and you decide to … ignore it.

This whole thing seems like this is just a case of you misunderstanding the client/vendor relationship.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread.

“Not reasonable” does not mean “something I would not enjoy”.

No, it means “not reasonable”. As in “it’s unreasonable to demand or expect such”.

Which is actually being used, in this discussion, to mean “that would mean removing something I like and I don’t want that to happen, so I’ll say it’s unreasonable to ask for it”.

Obtena.7952:

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread.

“Not reasonable” does not mean “something I would not enjoy”.

I don’t see what YOU enjoy has to do with it. Anet develops the game with certain concepts in mind. You decide to pay them to experience it. Is this just a case of you misunderstanding the client/vendor relationship? Sounds like it.

Ironically, I was talking about how you enjoy the current grind and you were claiming asking for its removal would be unreasonable because you would not enjoy seeing it removed. Your most recent post is a nice reply to yourself.

Devata.6589:

@Vayne

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

I grinded just as much in Guild Wars 1 as I did here, to make my skills more powerful. It wasn’t GEAR grind, but it was still grind to become more powerful.

Considering that in GW2 the materials to craft and the drops from bosses are all locked behind a pretty hefty and manipulated (with DR no less) RNG system that statement is a lie. Sorry, but you had a direct result for completing the tasks for obtaining the skills you wanted, there was no dice roll to see if you got it or got some other ability.

The two are not the same.

You see, this is why discussing the GW1 example is useless. You could try and tell me anything and I don’t know how is really worked in GW1.

What tigirius says here makes a huge difference.

I don’t mind being busy collecting those cosmetics in GW2 like for ever (different cosmetics all the time) as long as there is a more direct and viable way to get them. A more direct result also. (even if there is some RNG involved in it).

If the cosmetics work like tigirius explains the skills work, I would have been fine with it and then it does indeed look there is a big difference between GW1 and GW2. What dismisses your idea that it was already exactly like this in GW1 and so it is completely cash-shop unrelated.

And with a lot of the new stuff there is a direct way to get it. That is to say you can get ambrite weapons without gold. You can get carapace armor without gold. You can get luminencent armor without gold. you can get the new PvP armor without gold.

Do you even play this game anymore?

Tigirius is wrong because there was RNG for many of the things you needed or you farmed gold to get them. He has a bug with the RNG in this game even though RNG existed in the last game. He believes he has an unlucky account. He has an hot button issue just like you do. Those issues are related but not the same.

So the last three armor sets added to this game you can actually get without spending gold, but yes, you have to farm for them. In fact, there’s no way to get them with gold.

You were saying?

Test.8734:

Ironically, I was talking about how you enjoy the current grind and you were claiming asking for its removal would be unreasonable because you would not enjoy seeing it removed. Your most recent post is a nice reply to yourself.

I guess you have a problem with context then. You’ve assumed I enjoy the grind. That’s an incorrect premise, so your statement is false. I don’t want to see current approach to obtaining Ascended gear removed because I don’t see a problem with how it’s implemented; it’s the players choice to get what they want and other than a small number of cases, it’s not necessary for anyone to have a full set, or any Ascended gear if people don’t want it.

That’s part of the problem with your argument; you’re not willing to discuss within the context of what Anet (and many other gamers) define as grinding which they use to design the game. That’s just disingenuous. Until you start framing your ‘game is grindy’ argument around the definition that Anet uses to develop it, it’s just a lot of nonsense.

Zenith.7301:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

aerial.7021:

Lheimroo.2947:

~

~

~

Well-founded or not, it’s an opinion. I have full ascended items on three characters and I’ll never have to grind on those characters again. Not for gear.

More to the point, I have a boatload of other characters who don’t have a single piece of ascended gear…well maybe rings from fractals that I’ve done but that’s it, and none of those characters are excluded from content.

That’s the difference that you refuse to acknowledge.

You have one aspect of the game that you can’t stand and you blame everything else for it, but you don’t acknowledge that others, not just me, find other MMOs more grindy than this one.

You have an opinion and it’s a strong one and everything is jaded based on that opinion. I don’t think you could approach this game in an unbiased manner because you’re looking for things to support your dislike of the business model. That’s the worst kind of science.

~

Guild Wars has always had grind for cosmetics. It was always supposed to. I don’t see why you can’t recognize that.

I did not play a lot of GW1 but as far as I know GW1 was way more about lore and PvP then cosmetics. Mini’s you mainly got from birthdays and then there where like two sets of armor of what at least one was really grindy?

Could be wrong but thats what I know about it. I don’t think you can really compare that to how GW2 works. It’s much more an MMO where collecting items is also a more important part of the game. So turning that into a grind also different then doing that in GW1 I would think.

Then again, I could not really start a discussion with you about GW1 as I simply don’t know enough about it.

Guild Wars 1 was a grind for cosmetics. Just about everything in that game was about having different look to your armor or weapon.

A basic set of armor costs 10% of the elite armor, but elite armor had the same stats. Exactly the same stats.

The people who came from Guild Wars 1, always expected this cosmetics grind. What we didn’t want was ascended gear, or level cap increases. That’s because we had the same stats from the first game through all the rest of the games. We didn’t want or need more. We didn’t want ascended gear, because it was too hard to get and it remains, in my mind, too hard to get. The only good thing about it to me is that you don’t need it. I don’t feel it adds anything to the game.

There were two sets of armor that was massively hard to get and a boatload of rare weapon skins as well.

I tried to get a frog scepter for years in Guild Wars 1. Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it. I ran the dungeon bogroot growths until I couldn’t look at it any more. No frog scepter. Then even if you did get one as a drop, it might not have been for the stats you wanted anyway.

There were also minis that were so rare, even as rich as I got, I’d never have been able to afford them. The mini polar bear for example, if you wanted to buy it with gold, you’d have to farm endlessly for years.

And you’d have to buy it from another player, because there was no marketplace there. You’d have to stand around kamadan and negotiate to buy or sell anything.

So Guild Wars 2, which had the update model you keep saying is better, still had the same type of grind for cosmetics.

Nothing in GW1 took long to get. Even Obsidian armor I got in less than 2 weeks by soloing Hierophant’s. In a solo Hierophant run I got about 300k worth of items to sell. Do a couple of those runs and you had the gold for the most expensive stuff ingame.

Please don’t compare GW1 grind to GW2 grind. They’re not even on the same galaxy.

Yep, I bet you maxed out your Luxon track in two weeks. Because that’s grind for power. Did you even play Guild Wars 1?

Vayne.8563:

That is to say you can get ambrite weapons without gold. You can get carapace armor without gold. You can get luminencent armor without gold. you can get the new PvP armor without gold.

(…)

So the last three armor sets added to this game you can actually get without spending gold, but yes, you have to farm for them. In fact, there’s no way to get them with gold.

Uh… Caparace armor boxes are sold for crests and, guess what, gold. So yep, there is a way to get them with gold.

Do you even play this game anymore?

Obtena.7952:

I guess you have a problem with context then. You’ve assumed I enjoy the grind. That’s an incorrect premise, so your statement is false.

The “people who are complaining want everything handed to them” speech is used by those who like the grind. Because everyone else can clearly see the difference between playing a game to have fun and working in a game.

Test.8734:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Always would not be reasonable; a persisting theme in this thread.

“Not reasonable” does not mean “something I would not enjoy”.

No, it means “not reasonable”. As in “it’s unreasonable to demand or expect such”.

Which is actually being used, in this discussion, to mean “that would mean removing something I like and I don’t want that to happen, so I’ll say it’s unreasonable to ask for it”.

. . .

Sure, let’s go with that, why not?

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

That is to say you can get ambrite weapons without gold. You can get carapace armor without gold. You can get luminencent armor without gold. you can get the new PvP armor without gold.

(…)

So the last three armor sets added to this game you can actually get without spending gold, but yes, you have to farm for them. In fact, there’s no way to get them with gold.

Uh… Caparace armor boxes are sold for crests and, guess what, gold. So yep, there is a way to get them with gold.

Do you even play this game anymore?

You also get them for doing the Living Story parts. I got all of mine doing that, plus the one guaranteed Coat box for beating the Vinewrath.

So . . . do you even play this game anymore, yourself?

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

That is to say you can get ambrite weapons without gold. You can get carapace armor without gold. You can get luminencent armor without gold. you can get the new PvP armor without gold.

(…)

So the last three armor sets added to this game you can actually get without spending gold, but yes, you have to farm for them. In fact, there’s no way to get them with gold.

Uh… Caparace armor boxes are sold for crests and, guess what, gold. So yep, there is a way to get them with gold.

Do you even play this game anymore?

Obtena.7952:

I guess you have a problem with context then. You’ve assumed I enjoy the grind. That’s an incorrect premise, so your statement is false.

The “people who are complaining want everything handed to them” speech is used by those who like the grind. Because everyone else can clear see the difference between playing a game to have fun and working in a game.

You can’t get them with gold alone. And the amount of gold you need to get them is neglible. Also many of them aren’t sold. You can’t buy a carapace coat box for gold. You sure you play this game?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You also get them for doing the Living Story parts. I got all of mine doing that, plus the one guaranteed Coat box for beating the Vinewrath.

So . . . do you even play this game anymore, yourself?

Yep. I never said there isn’t a way to get them without gold; only that it’s not true that you cannot use gold to get them, as Vayne said.

Vayne.8563:

You can’t get them with gold alone. And the amount of gold you need to get them is neglible. Also many of them aren’t sold.

Excuses (again), so you won’t admit you are wrong (again)?

I’m not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but you don’t need agony resist to experience fractals. There are no new fractal instances unlocked at higher levels. Level 1 will let you /bow for achievement at cliffside just like level 50 will. Higher levels are merely there for those that have more time to play than the game content was designed for. Just like ascended gear, it’s there if you want to craft it, but not required to unlock access to new content.

That said, fractals are a grind if for some reason you want to do higher level fractals but don’t want to do fractals. Which is like saying you want to run a marathon but don’t want to run, but I guess people will find just about anything to kitten about these days.

Test.8734:

The “people who are complaining want everything handed to them” speech is used by those who like the grind. Because everyone else can clearly see the difference between playing a game to have fun and working in a game.

It’s not ONLY used by people that like to grind. It’s also used by people that understand that working for something is part of the reward system in any MMO. That’s why Anet doesn’t make getting Ascended gear mandatory for the majority of the content that people want to experience. You’re just ignoring that aspect that Anet defines as grind to make your argument … again, if you don’t discuss within the parameters that Anet uses to design the game, you’re just ranting.

Test.8734:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You also get them for doing the Living Story parts. I got all of mine doing that, plus the one guaranteed Coat box for beating the Vinewrath.

So . . . do you even play this game anymore, yourself?

Yep. I never said there isn’t a way to get them without gold; only that it’s not true that you cannot use gold to get them, as Vayne said.

You need to follow the argument better. Devata is saying the only way to get this stuff it to grind gold.

I’m saying you don’t have to grind gold to get this stuff. That is to say you have to play a lot of stuff in game to get this stuff. There is a NOMINAL gold fee associated with it which is very small. But many of the pieces you can get by just playing the story anyway and not paying any gold at all.

It’s nice to try to nitpick specific sentiments, but since my response was to Devata talking about farming gold to buy new stuff, this doesn’t really fall under that umbrella. And you can’t buy it with gold. Gold is one small component of what you need. You’re buying it with badges, which you can’t buy with gold.

Just because gold is needed for a small portion of some of it, doesn’t mean you can buy it with gold. If you had nothing but gold, you couldn’t get it.

Obtena.7952:

It’s not ONLY used by people that like to grind. It’s also used by people that understand that working for something is part of the reward system in any MMO.

In other words, people who want more of the same instead of wanting a MMO that breaks conventions.

Vayne.8563:

Just because gold is needed for a small portion of some of it, doesn’t mean you can buy it with gold. If you had nothing but gold, you couldn’t get it.

You need to make your arguments better. Saying you can get something without gold (which you said) is different from saying you cannot get something using gold (which you also said, and in which you were wrong).

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

It’s not ONLY used by people that like to grind. It’s also used by people that understand that working for something is part of the reward system in any MMO.

In other words, people who want more of the same instead of wanting a MMO that breaks conventions.

Wrong again … the game breaks many conventions, especially the one we are talking about in this thread. The gearing aspects of this game that require ‘lots of work’ are not necessary to progress and succeed. Another example; the gear that is generally accepted as necessary to success is relatively easy to obtain. Yet another; if you are so inclined, you can obtain said easily obtained gear by converting RL money to gems, etc.. and just buying it.

Shall I go on?

Obtena.7952:

Wrong again … the game breaks many conventions. Whatever your angle here, it still doesn’t make what I said any less relevant or wrong.

That the only reason why grinding is part of all MMOs is because no one has made a MMO without the grind, not because one design is inherent to another? That pretty much makes what you said wrong. Claiming “the game must be like this because that’s how all games in this genre are” is short sighted. Under this kind of reasoning, someone asking for FPS to have a good story, back when all we had was Doom, would have been told that “it’s not how FPS are”. Until we got Half Life and Bioshock, and people realized you could have a good story in that kind of game. Same with MMORPGs and grind – the current games have a lot of grind. Yet they would still be massive, be multiplayer, be online and be RPGs if you removed, or at least reduced significantly, the grind.

lol, first they tick off a lot of the original fan base with their threats of raising the level cap and bringing in another tier of gear and now they have done a 180 on this as well… discuss all you want but this is just hilarious.

It’s probably too expensive to realise their original plan so now the tune has changed from "we will raise the level cap " to “we don’t want to invalidate people’s current efforts”.

Hate or love GW2…this is just so sad it makes me laugh.

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Wrong again … the game breaks many conventions. Whatever your angle here, it still doesn’t make what I said any less relevant or wrong.

That the only reason why grinding is part of all MMOs is because no one has made a MMO without the grind, not because one design is inherent to another? That pretty much makes what you said wrong. Claiming “the game must be like this because that’s how all games in this genre are” is short sighted. Under this kind of reasoning, someone asking for FPS to have a good story, back when all we had was Doom, would have been told that “it’s not how FPS are”. Until we got Half Life and Bioshock, and people realized you could have a good story in that kind of game. Same with MMORPGs and grind – the current games have a lot of grind. Yet they would still be massive, be multiplayer, be online and be RPGs if you removed, or at least reduced significantly, the grind.

Now you’re putting words in my mouth. I did not say MMO’s are grindy just because they are …. smarten up.

You’re not recognizing how MMO’s appeal to different players and I’ve already explained this to you. I’m not sure how your lack of comprehension makes me wrong but to be clear, there isn’t anything you need gear-wise to play this game that fits under the definition that Anet uses for grindy. What gear that is grindy is a choice for players to make.

Test.8734:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You also get them for doing the Living Story parts. I got all of mine doing that, plus the one guaranteed Coat box for beating the Vinewrath.

So . . . do you even play this game anymore, yourself?

Yep. I never said there isn’t a way to get them without gold; only that it’s not true that you cannot use gold to get them, as Vayne said.

Well, you can’t just throw Gold at the problem. You need Bandit Crests also.

Let’s take a look at it then. You either play the LS chapters for one skin per part (guaranteed) or you play the game to earn them through Bandit Crests and Gold. There’s an easy way with no grind, and a somewhat tougher way with some grind but no time limit on it.

So . . . were you going somewhere with that?

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Just because gold is needed for a small portion of some of it, doesn’t mean you can buy it with gold. If you had nothing but gold, you couldn’t get it.

You need to make your arguments better. Saying you can get something without gold (which you said) is different from saying you cannot get something using gold (which you also said, and in which you were wrong).

Oh, right. Trying to score points off Vayne. Carry on.

Gehenna.3625:

lol, first they tick off a lot of the original fan base with their threats of raising the level cap and bringing in another tier of gear and now they have done a 180 on this as well… discuss all you want but this is just hilarious.

It’s probably too expensive to realise their original plan so now the tune has changed from "we will raise the level cap " to “we don’t want to invalidate people’s current efforts”.

Hate or love GW2…this is just so sad it makes me laugh.

Well, their original plan was to not have levels at all. That changed in development. Then we got to watch a slow trainwreck as they released the game about six months early based on the fixes which had to be shoved into place.

Honestly, I expect somewhere around Lost Shores when their first “one time only event” blew up their servers and . . . annoyed . . . a great big slice of the players? They shredded the original idea and worked instead on figuring out how to deliver something else close to it . . .

Obtena.7952:

You’re not recognizing how MMO’s appeal to different players and I’ve already explained this to you. I’m not sure how your lack of comprehension makes me wrong but to be clear

See, you are so stuck on your preconceived notions that you cannot see the answer right in front of you. MMOs don’t appeal to so many different players because they are very similar to each other; and they always cater to the players with a “let’s work in a game, that shows effort!” mentality, hence why they always have grind.

If you want MMORPGs to expand their appeal to other players, a way to do so is to remove or reduce the grind. Is this clear enough for you?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, their original plan was to not have levels at all. That changed in development. Then we got to watch a slow trainwreck as they released the game about six months early based on the fixes which had to be shoved into place.

Remember the “we will have infinite levels” phase? I’m glad that idea didn’t stick.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gehenna.3625:

lol, first they tick off a lot of the original fan base with their threats of raising the level cap and bringing in another tier of gear and now they have done a 180 on this as well… discuss all you want but this is just hilarious.

It’s probably too expensive to realise their original plan so now the tune has changed from "we will raise the level cap " to “we don’t want to invalidate people’s current efforts”.

Hate or love GW2…this is just so sad it makes me laugh.

Well, their original plan was to not have levels at all. That changed in development. Then we got to watch a slow trainwreck as they released the game about six months early based on the fixes which had to be shoved into place.

Honestly, I expect somewhere around Lost Shores when their first “one time only event” blew up their servers and . . . annoyed . . . a great big slice of the players? They shredded the original idea and worked instead on figuring out how to deliver something else close to it . . .

Sure but the cynic in me has to think back about what GW1 was and what Anet wanted to do different from GW1…well looks like they are returning slowly to their original GW1 ideas again. I find that ironic at best after all the noise they made about how GW2 was going to be so different.

I remember when they just announced GW2 and talked about how the expansions had made the world too big and people were too spread out in GW1. Well, they released GW2 with a huge world spreading people out all over. So they had to do stuff to bring people together again. Oh and they wanted to create a much bigger leveling experience because people supposedly wanted that. Well they went too far to the other side with 80 levels with progession in it that could’ve been done in 30 levels. So what have I heard? GW2 drops scrolls or something that give you a full level upon use? Sorry, have to laugh at that again.

All in all it probably is better for the game that they don’t raise the level cap. They wouldn’t know what to do with it. Maybe that mastery thing will be ok, but I won’t be holding my breath anyways. So far from what I’ve seen this expansion is somewhere between a GW1 and Aion expansion at full cost of course. I am not sure however it will have the same value as the GW1 expansions did.

You’ll have to decide on that. Adding a new class while adding specialisations that thin the lines between classes even more? I took an interest because of the new expansion buzz but I don’t expect I will buy it. Maybe later when you can get it for 5 bucks or something. Still, I’ll have a look here on the forum to see what people say about it when it goes live.

They’re going back to those ideas because, I must say this is important . . .

A lot of people seem to enjoy what they had in GW1 over what they tried to do in GW2.

So, it’s a matter of “let’s keep the players we DO have”.