Guild Wars 2

deSade.9437:

The missing floor in p3 is still… missing.
Floor, not roof, ugh. I need more sleep.

Are you talking about the first right after you destroy the first barricade (near the old pipe)? If so, all you have to do is take left and fight a second wave of dredges to get to the first boss… but if you’re talking about the left path… oh boy.

Arimahn.3568:

Oxxy.7068:

Arimahn.3568:

zerotwo.4731:

I have to agree with Oxxy, if your a new player as posted then why belittle the play style of the majority of GW 2 players?

Because it runs counter to what you’d expect from a dungeon run in an MMO. Slow and methodical versus ololol zerkr only rush. People actually USED to play it slow but eventually everyone realized how horrible most dungeons were and started skipping, or ignoring everything but CoF1.

I used to play other games as well, what a shocker, anyways, do you know why i never really bothered with pve till gw2? Because every single dungeon had a 40mins~1 hour lenght in general, meanwhile here at gw2 the average dungeon path is something around 15 minutes long. You don’t like fast dungeons? Fine, go and post your own killing everything group, but then you’ll realize you’re only a very vocal minority, and nobody is actually joining your group.

Gee, I wonder why people pick the fast option when given the choice? Maybe because the time/effort/reward balance is out of whack for most paths?!

Skipping hints at bad design. Take away the superficial mobs or make it impossible, but don’t be lazy about it and just tell people that it’s intended.

It was intended. And it is not bad design, they gave us 2 options to progress: killing the mobs or skipping’em. Should killing trash be more rewarding somehow? Sure. Should i ever be tied to killing’em all the time? Nope.
Take kholer and icebrood wolf(from coe) for example, sometimes i feel like killing’em, sometimes i feel like skipping. And i’m sure there are ways to give extra rewards to people that kill other mobs at the end of any path thanks to our achievement system (If you ever played c9, every dungeon had 5 unlockable boxes at the end, 2 for completion, one for time (the faster the better), other for hits taken (the lesser the better, you needed to dodge 90% of everything to get “S” on that one), and other for enemies killed, but to get said extra chests you’d have to get an good overall score, not only a good score at killing trash, for example).
If you think that not skipping is good design, i’d like to remember you how popular the new TA path is (hint: it ins’t).

Sovereign.1093:

4. ranger+1 lyssa

Just to point this out, i tested a few days back and ranger’s runes bonus #6 is working at all times, without companions. Last patch may or may not have fixed it, i could test again but i doubt they fixed it.

Bumping this because you guys can put up with my horrid warrior skills.

“Collaborative development” is a awful way to develop a game, fans are fans, and shouldn’t be more than that unless they have the skills required to do so. It is just like when a movie/tv series director/screenwriter starts asking fans what they’d like to see in said movie/serie, and you go from espionage to Goku in a tuxedo dancing dubstep.

spiritus.7983:

Oxxy.7068:

spiritus.7983:

SE p3 first skip is blocked now

Now we have to fight TWO extra groups of dredge, oh my god what is this?!

Seriously, i’m not even sure why they changed that, at best they added 30 seconds to the average run final time. Pfft.

whats your problem? I just reported a change I seen. chill the fk down

Uh, i think you’re the one who needs chilling, lol.

spiritus.7983:

SE p3 first skip is blocked now

Now we have to fight TWO extra groups of dredge, oh my god what is this?!

Seriously, i’m not even sure why they changed that, at best they added 30 seconds to the average run final time. Pfft.

Arimahn.3568:

zerotwo.4731:

I have to agree with Oxxy, if your a new player as posted then why belittle the play style of the majority of GW 2 players?

Because it runs counter to what you’d expect from a dungeon run in an MMO. Slow and methodical versus ololol zerkr only rush. People actually USED to play it slow but eventually everyone realized how horrible most dungeons were and started skipping, or ignoring everything but CoF1.

I used to play other games as well, what a shocker, anyways, do you know why i never really bothered with pve till gw2? Because every single dungeon had a 40mins~1 hour lenght in general, meanwhile here at gw2 the average dungeon path is something around 15 minutes long. You don’t like fast dungeons? Fine, go and post your own killing everything group, but then you’ll realize you’re only a very vocal minority, and nobody is actually joining your group.

LordByron.8369:

If you want a reliable character for dungeons avoid elementalist at all costs.

You must be kidding.
And even when they fix FGS, LH and perma fury are still coolbeanz.

a t s e.9614:

how many times people ping their scholar runes and end up
laying on the ground .

“How many times people ping their zerk gear and end up laying on the ground.”

I giggled.

AndrewSX.3794:

-engi. It’s good for might and vuln stacking. Have a lot of access to various fields, utility and blast. But, that’s it. Also, best dps option (‘nades) might drive you nuts as they’re a pita to use.

Engies are pretty strong at lifting bads, if i’m not messing up my combos, you can pull off 1400+1400+2500+2000 group wide green numbers with 0 healing power without dropping bandages. Plus 17ish seconds of regeneration. It makes me wonder why the hell people run guardians in healing gear.

Havvy.4897:

Hmm, I’ve been playing an elementalist. I don’t feel squishy, but I don’t feel like I’m bringing anything unique to the party. Anything I’m missing?

Take a look at Zehlyn’s guide. But botton line, with 30 into fire any elementalist can bring perma fury to your team while providing alot of fire fields, blast finishers and projectile defenses (swirling winds), along with FGS and some cheap healing. I’m pretty sure you can do a quick trait swap on the fly to have a better synergy with LH as well if you want to.

Dub.1273:

I love elementalists in my team. One person able to take care of almost all buffs you need while delivering good dps and support (swirling) and bringing fgs is just nuts.

Pretty much this. If you can deal with the fact that they’re squishy as hell i think ele is a solid choice. If being squishy ins’t your thing i’d say mesmer, good mesmers on pugs are always welcome, their utility is nice and they have a pretty easy time surviving due to blurred frenzy.

Star Ace.5207:

He/she admitted he/she is new, no need to abuse the OP, especially for being a casual as if that was bad and evil (gosh that is so short-sighted and so common in this forum.)

Being casual and stubborn are completely different things.

AndrewSX.3794:

You maybe mean CoE, which has lasers in all the 3 paths (common route up there)?

I think he means SE P2, last bosses, but it is hard to say. Not sure what jumping has to do with’em tho, i just remember having an awful time at melee range, no jumps.

Wait, i do not understand. I thought swaping to GS every nine seconds to double WW would give me an increase on my dps. My life is a lie.

Yeah i’ve been thinking about getting superior aria for more blocks but then i also spent 8g on bloodlust a sigil (well, ages ago). :|
Droping RHS is really tempting since i’m spending ~15 secs on GS and only 9 at sword, it feels like i don’t need RHS that much.

Allow me to hijack this thread a little:

Few days ago i asked (at the guardian forums, biggest mistake ever)if using 25 instead of 30 points into radiance and perception stacks would boost my overall dps on long fights (60+ secs) compared to blood lust and RHS, assuming i’m making my skill rotations right… anyhow, is it worth it (damage wise) to drop 5 points into radiance and put’em elsewhere to use perception stacks and boost my burst with GS at the expense of losing DPS on sword attacks?

Arimahn.3568:

“It was intended all along” seems like a really really weak counter to plain bad design. WoW’s dungeons didn’t feel like a chore and did not let you skip. They also had better gimmicks than just “make a wrong jump and you die”.

Care to explain that jumping part? The only places that jumping is a must are harpy fractals and that aether blade instance where we had to jump the lasers while fighting some asura boss.

How is that an insult? :|
I’d argue that you calling me childish and angry, or asking if i know how to change utilities are more insulting than that, but then again i didn’t find any of your comments particularly insulting…

@Aza
Refer to Spoj’s post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/A-DPS-Build-that-uses-AH/3099504
So far i provided facts. I don’t think i’m a teacher, what i do think is that people come at the forums seeking information to be a better player, saying something like 15/15/30/5/5 and leaving at that ins’t going to help much.

But i did post one AH build that should work as a dps build. The difference between me and you is that i provided better alternatives instead of saying “Use it, it is DABEST according to my feelings”. And if you don’t want to debate with me, stop replying, it is that simple.

Then by all means please show me how AH is better than other traits, and how the earth ins’t round. I’ll be waiting.

Only if they come in clown cars.

ThiBash.5634:

Oxxy.7068:

There’s a saying in my country that says something along the lines of “the worst kind of blind is the one that doesn’t want to see”, that said, i hope you have fun in-game.

Sounds a little like “if you disagree with me, you’re dumb” to me.

I wonder why.

Nike said this awhile ago but… if stacking is the new ta f/u, will anet replace all corners with aetherblade strikers?
Something to think about.

There’s a saying in my country that says something along the lines of “the worst kind of blind is the one that doesn’t want to see”, that said, i hope you have fun in-game.

Incomingray.8075:

Oxxy.7068:

What kind of group-support you bring while using AH in PvE? Whatever your awnser is, any build without points in valor can do it better.

Alive Guardian group support, the kind that matters.

Good to know you didn’t read anything i’ve said.

Incomingray.8075:

Not everyone agrees with you guys and you don’t seem to be understanding our explanations or how we dps and support in the kind of pve we do.

What kind of group-support you bring while using AH in PvE? Whatever your awnser is, any build without points in valor can do it better.

But stacking and los’ing are exploits.

Aza.2105:

but so far the only thing you have proven about AH is that you personally aren’t a fan of it.

I sure hope you aren’t serious here.
Anyhow, i like the concept of AH, but there is no reason to pick it up instead of any other actually good traits.
Also, there’s something you misunderstood here: I’m not saying “OP can’t use AH because i said so”, what i did here was to show anyone reading this thread and interested in pve that there are way better options, i even posted an AH build earlier in case OP really wants to use it.
And while everything is viable, there’s a gap between doing AC in 10 minutes while not really caring about speed and spending 25 minutes trying to make it as fast as possible because your party is made of bearbows rangers, healways guardians and minion mancers necros.

Not having to min-max doesn’t make AH any better at PvE. Plus, you’d spend 3 silvers re-specing for WvW.

Are you implying that pvp is, spoj?

Berner.7289:

And in my experience, seldom are the encounters where a single Guardian needs to have both WoR and Purging Flames in a single fight. One or the other tends to be more suitable, still letting you take two shouts. But if there is an encounter where you need both, you can take both … at the expense of fewer AH procs. Not the end of the world. You can even take SotA as well. (You are aware that you can change utilities anytime as long as you are out-of-combat, right?)

I don’t run purging flames only for the cleansing, there’s also the fire field factor. And if you really don’t mind getting almost none AH procs you just basically wasted 20~30 trait points. Congratulations.

And before you say “min-max” again, i’ll tell you this:
Bullkitten.
There are two kinds of builds: good ones, and bad ones. Take a look at Zelyhn’s elementalist build. It rocks, it is simply amazing, it doesn’t max out damage, it doesn’t max out support, it provides just enough of both, he’s not min-maxing but made a flexible build that can serve to multiple purposes. On the other hand AH is bad at damage and team support, and have a hard time adapting since all your group-wide utilities are pretty much untraited, all that while potentially screwing your dodges if you don’t put 5 points into honor. So, just stop with this “AH isn’t a min-max” because that’s really a poor excuse.
AH is awful, not because it doesn’t max-out damage, but because it sucks at everything that matters: dpsing, supporting, adapting and even covering your own mistakes (extra dodges are much better than healing from AH).

So please, learn your stuff before you even think about making witty comments regarding my utility swaping awareness.

Berner.7289:

Oxxy.7068:

You’re basically getting nothing if compared to other setups, aside from some defense that is arguably worse than perma vigor.

Toughness, trickle healing, 30% crit damage, and more Scholar uptime isn’t nothing. It may not be the min/max choice, and it may not be your choice, but it is a viable choice nonetheless.

Let’s talk game mechanics.
AH heals you everytime you apply a boon, right? Right. So, to make good use of that wonderful trait we’d have to:

• Use hammer as main weapon to trigger the healing 5x per symbol pulse, assuming your party is at melee range with you.
• Use S/F and shouts.

So, assuming you want to run Hammer, because you know how consecrations are important, you’d run something like: 15/15/30/x/x, either master of consecrations or superior aria or vigor on critical + buffs on virtues. You are simply dishing less party wide protection (and dps) in order to get yourself AH, and IF you trait for longer lasting symbols you’d be hitting like a wet noodle, scholar runes uptime would hardly help your dps in that case.

Now, if you want to run S/F, it gets funnier: You can’t have fiery wrath, lasting consecrations and superior aria together, because you have to put at least 25 points into Radiance, not only that you’d have to use at least two shouts to make use of that wonderful trait, purging flames and WoR? Pffft, your group is too pro and doesn’t need both.

Yeah, AH is totally viable and clearly a good trait choice.

Berner.7289:

Actually, what I said is that it is a trade-off. Which implies both advantages and disadvantages. Whether its a “good” trade-off or a “bad” trade-off depends on a lot of other factors, e.g., content, group composition, skill level.

So yes, you are wrong. And, you’re even wrong about what you were wrong about. Think about that for a moment.

This “trade-off” ins’t even a trade, but since i’m feeling like repeating myself over and over today: You lose damage and utility in order to get AH. You’re basically getting nothing if compared to other setups, aside from some defense that is arguably worse than perma vigor. And while we’re at it: give me one group composition where AH is better than 25 in virtues (hint: there ins’t one).

And here’s a free tip: If you need AH to make scholar works, swap to ranger’s runes.

Berner.7289:

Oxxy.7068:

Still less damage and utility than 25 in virtues (according to dub, 20% less damage).

No one said AH was a min/max build. You seem to be arguing with yourself here, so I’ll leave you to it.

You said it was a good trade off. It ins’t. But hey, great argument right there, you really proved me wrong.

If kholer wasn’t so squishy we’d be a great fight, sometimes he doesn’t even pulls before getting blown up. :/

Berner.7289:

A trait line that gives 30% crit damage, so more damage.

Bottom line is there are pluses and minuses to using AH, even in DPS-centric builds. The only people who are wrong are those who deny that fact.

Still less damage and utility than 25 in virtues (according to dub, 20% less damage). I’m sorry but the fact that AH is a weak trait-line won’t change just because you said on the internet that i am wrong.

@Obtena
If people that tops outs 86~95% critical chance everytime they run a dungeon aren’t running 30 in valor for damage, i am pretty sure that it is a bad idea for the average forum goer. :/

Healing signet is a healing skill, not a trait, using it will not affect utility or dps, in most cases it will boost it (via precision per unused signets). On the other hand, AH requires 30 points into a bad trait line.

Using AH to keep scholar runes up is the same as using signet heal, over kill. You’ll heal more than needed and will lose both dps and utility in the process. Not really a smart choice when you think about it.

I’m surprised this thread is still going on.

Anet made the new TA path so that the living history crew would enjoy (for a week that’s it), i’m yet to find someone who run dungeons on a daily basis running that path as much as f/u.

I used to play a game where i needed to manage 41 keybinds while PvPing. Forty. One. GW2 has one of the best default key-bindings i’ve ever seen, so far i’ve only had to move my elite skill to X. I refrain myself from changing anything else since the changes affect all my characters (i.e: I want to bind purging flames on E but would cringe if i did that with LH or any engie kits).

TKiller.6829:

Those guys were awesome. I’d love to not talk to them some time again.

This pretty much describes any good pugging experience i’ve ever had, everyone is quiet and knows what to do, it’s just the best gaming experience with strangers you can have.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Oxxy.7068:

Nope, it (torch) will likely slow you down, #4 is situational, and #5 is meh at best since it doesn’t cleanse yourself. Torch is pretty weak right now. At least for guardians.

Swing and a miss, buddy.

DPS Guard in general is a different animal than most people run. I assure you in the right comp it is effective and does not slow you down at all.

If you don’t believe me, then look at Jax(Silven). He advocates using torch in certain builds, and is generally considered one of the more knowledgeable NA Guards (at least that contribute on the forums) when it comes to building for tPvP.

Torch has reasonably short CD on its burst, AoE cleansing utility and the ability to proc burns rapidly which will allow you to get +% damage modifiers reliably in some DPS builds.

I make no claims about its effectiveness in PvE, but there certainly is a place and time for it in tPvP.

I was talking with sPvP in mind as well, i find it really really really situational, not useless, but situational. The lack of defensive skills may be biasing my opinion tho, i guess if #5 cleanse affected us as well i’d use it more often while pvping.

I think mesmer is the only class with more surviability than guardians, PvE wise, and all you need to do in order to get said surviability as a guardian is put five points into honor. Warrior is stronger soloing stuff because they have an easier time with self buffing (think banners, frenzy, FGJ, might on GS critical, etc). IMO go with warrior if you want to support your group with raw status from banners, but if you want to put support thru fields, boons (think protection, stability, regen and aegis) and projectiles defenses, go guardian.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

If you are running a full zerker style then Torch is pretty awesome.

Nope, it will likely slow you down, #4 is situational, and #5 is meh at best since it doesn’t cleanse yourself. Torch is pretty weak right now. At least for guardians.

Hey guys, clearly zerkers can facetank 3 red circle spams from subject alpha in a row without dodging. It is the same as if they were using Pvt gear!
Yeah, nah.

Anicetus.1253:

The amount off kittened builds being thrown around in here is insane.

Well, OP did ask for builds with AH, it is pretty obvious that anything in here is kittened. lol