Guild Wars 2

@Tobias

The question to why People should look diffrent according to they’re skills and achievment is easy. People want a Goal in an mmo. In gw2 Skins is the only endgame Goal so if you make everything available for all guys than it’s just no Goal because everyone has it you can’t feel Special or feel some Kind of reward for your work because if all have it it’s no reward.

I agree that people might not should miss out huge Content because of skillgate
but why can’t you leave me some challenge in the game? I mean some progressive challenge ? The Content that was delivered so far wasn’t near anything for skilled Players besides liadri light up the dark achievment. Whats your Problem if sombody else can aquire a Skin that is created for people who do for example SAB Tribunal mode?

At the Moment you can have everything with just Money. what would be the Problem if I was awarded for certain challenges with an ascended armor? everyone could get it as well.. but I get it for sure without RNG for beeing skillfull.

Well hard Content doesn’t Need to exclude casual Players … if there are gambits / instabilities ect for dungeons. Casual Players see the same Content as hardcore Players do.

What would be the Problem to reward Special tokkens if you complete the dungeon while gambits active. Allow Players to Change those tokkens for ascended armor weapons and stuff. I mean i feel like I am forced to farm and grind things because I have a Feeling that fractals will Need certain ar I can’t get with just showing my skills at playing fractals. So for me it be a nice solution to get ascended armor while testing my skills in existing dungeons with gambits / instabilities.

I know People will still complain that it is unfair that he can get that armor ect ect but in the end everyone can see the Content ( Play the dungeon) and everyone can get ascended armor.

I think it would be a really nice solution to create some hard Content in a relatively short ammount of time without designing new Areas ect…

Would you think this would lead to elitism as well or would you be fine with such a Content?

The Lost Witch.7601:

Especially if we take into account that hiding skins behind a skill-gate is also slightly problematic:

If we hide too many skins behind skill-gates, then the masses won’t get many skins since there are only so many dev resources. And if they are too awesome… we’re not complying to rule a).

If we hide too few skins behind skill-gates, then all the skilled players get the same thing. And what’s the fun in everyone looking the same? (Though the obsidian armor-masses in GW1 beg to differ I guess.)

Unless… it’s all just to show off your accomplishments.

A title, or a hat/backpiece of some sort? Or a trophy to put next to the fireplace?

At the very least, a harmless achievement would be nice. Perhaps one of those that you cannot see on the list, or that doesn’t give any achievement points… an achievement that is just there to tell you that you’ve accomplished something awesome… but not part of a ‘to do list’.

But from what I hear … the skilled players want more than that. For me it is enough. And all the text before this was just to explain why I think that it should be enough.

I think you mentioned some good Points here. I don’t think a skillchallenge should give you some big ammount of Money personaly. Although I would love to be able to get my ascended armor while playing fractals on the highest scales or at least the AR needed to advance to the next Levels but I guess this geargate topic is offtopic so I leave it.I also don’t think there should be many Skins that can only be aquired like that. I personally remember the first tentaql kill of my Server as well cause they wanted to make it as the first german Server. You are completly right the Joy of the Moment is an achievment, and I just chatted with a friend that came back I played fractals over a year ago, there was some nice moments while playing as well but what I miss is somthing that I will remember those moments also maybe some years from now. So here’s my proposal:

Maybe a big META achievment that holds all sorts of challenges ( It should be really hard to get and maybe not completed until new challenges are released ). You get ap for it maybe only 1 if it harms other Players to much I don’t care. But you have Kind of a checklist what you have done. Than you can get for certain achievments a reward.

- A title ( I think 1 title is ok if you have like the whole achievment or a Special kittene like light up the dark)
- A Skin ( I think might be more difficult to hold the Balance)

If you don’t agree with either of These Idea I have a solution for you.

What if you just get rewards for your home instance?

You don’t have Special Skins that others can’t get for whatever reason.
You don’t have an elitism title.
And you have a hall of fame for yourself like the hall of monuments. I think many People woulnd’t have a Problem if I had a Tentaql trohpy somwhere in my home instance or some Special Fractal capitor on a Podest with a text written. This Fractal Capitor is a reminder that was handed out for all the People that Reached the highest scales of fractals ( scale 80) Before the instabilities hit Fractals.

I mean would that really harm anybody If I just had this fractal carpitor somwhere on a Podest in my home instace ? For mee it would be a nice reward that keeps my memories alive and can be cool to look over. And it woulnd’t be somthing that leads to elitsm ( I don’t assume People will check everyones home instance before they can join a Group)

What do you think of this Idea?

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

There is no way in measuring skill without taking reaction time into consideration.

Ever watch a chess match?

You seem to never watched one or you would know you don’t have unlimited time to decide what you do next. You know why Computer started beating the best chess Players?
Because there is for each combinations on the deck a best way to answer, to be a semi profi you Need to know the best answer to the first 10 moves if you are a profi chess Player you Need to know the best answer for moves for about the 32 moves is it skill? Yeah it is the skill to remember the right moves but if a chessplayer like a gamer has the posibility to look up things it’s meaning less since he could just take a Manual and win ( This is how the Computer wins the chess match against the profi Players:))

You said there was no way to measure skill without taking reaction time into account. There’s no twitch in chess.

A fast reaction is relative to the challenge you are dealing with to give a good answer and make a good reaction to a chess Situation you have a bigger timewindow than on other things. Still you have a time window and a certain timelimit to react and if you don’t react in that timelimit it Fails so there is a reaction time. Especially when talking about Computer games. Take a Computer Quizshow with 1 Million reward if you don’t have a certain timeframe in wich you Need to get the answer People just Google all answers and are fine. Same with reacting right to a certain sittuation in an MMORGP if you have unlimited time to make a move you can just go step for step and do the challenge in 8 hours because you can wikilook up all things you Need to do. You get my Point or you just discussing out of boredom?

zamalek.2154:

lordkrall.7241:

The main issue with measuring skill by reaction time is that it automatically makes people …

Completely valid point, but there is an easier counter-argument to reaction time (and other skill-based systems): elitism.

Edit: Removed a counterargument regarding fractals. This thread is not a fractal discussion.

So you agree that reaction time is a skillbased System ? since you say and other skillbased System.. so you just don’t want have skillchallenges in the game because you are afraid that People Show off they’re accomplishments and you feel like they’re elitists cause of that? And even if so what? just ignore em. Like I needed to ignore all those accusations of *************** things that I can’t mention but were mentioned a lot in the fractured dicussion. And This thread is not about fractals but about Progression. And RESETING Progression is a VERY IMPORTANT Topic when talking about Progression. Is it a true Progression if it can be reseted at any time? If somthing can be deleted/reseted did you truly Progress?

This is one of the definitions of the word:

noun

1 [mass noun] the process of developing gradually towards a more advanced state:

good opportunities for career progression

[count noun]:
a steady progression towards your goals

•movement towards a destination:

their mode of progression through the forest

• [count noun] Music a passage or movement from one note or chord to another:

a blues progression

• [count noun] Astrology a predictive technique in which the daily movement of the planets, starting from the day of birth, represents a year in the subject’s life.

2a number of things in a series:

the vista unfolds in a progression of castles and vineyards as seemingly endless as the Rhine itself

“the process of developing gradually towards a more advanced state” does this really happen if you can be thrown back to a state before? Because you don’t gradualy advance if a reset is part of the Progression. You might not realize because you weren’t hurt by this whole update. Maybe if all your account would be reseted all your items and achievments deleted you would also ask question if all things you did before to Progress your account really was a Progression if it can be reseted at any time…

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

There is no way in measuring skill without taking reaction time into consideration.

Ever watch a chess match?

You seem to never watched one or you would know you don’t have unlimited time to decide what you do next. You know why Computer started beating the best chess Players?
Because there is for each combinations on the deck a best way to answer, to be a semi profi you Need to know the best answer to the first 10 moves if you are a profi chess Player you Need to know the best answer for moves for about the 32 moves is it skill? Yeah it is the skill to remember the right moves but if a chessplayer like a gamer has the posibility to look up things it’s meaning less since he could just take a Manual and win ( This is how the Computer wins the chess match against the profi Players:))

lordkrall.7241:

The main issue with measuring skill by reaction time is that it automatically makes people with bad connection unable to be considered skilled, and would thus be unable to access anything that is locked behind said kind of skills, even if they are skillful enough.

Well as I said it’s not only reaction time but also to make the right decision. And People that have a really bad Connection can’t overcome challenges that is true doens’t mean they’re not skillfull just means they’re unable to do it.

There is no way in measuring skill without taking reaction time into consideration. If you know one let me know. But if you have endless time to decide you just ask a skilled Player in Chat what and where you should press and since it’s not about reaction time you just have plenty of time to press the right things… sorry but your Argument reminds me of the ones in the fractal discussion Forums…

The Lost Witch.7601:

So some questions about this skill based currency or skill-gating even perhaps:

• What defines skill?

• Can skill not be bypassed by clever tricks? I know beating Tequatl with a Tequatl slaying guild isn’t particularly skillful for anyone but the organizer.

• What percentage of the playerbase do you imagine can be called ‘skilled’? And how would it feel to not be part of that?

• Can skillful farmers outspeed regular farmers? And by how much? And if there is a perceived gate of how much investment it should take to get a particular thing, will this be off for the slower farmers?

• Will the hardcore players be the most skillful and thereby gain more riches because they don’t have to spend money on things that they can pay for with a skillbased currency? And will this increase the gap between the hardcore and the casual? How will this reflect on the economy?

• And how will the established difference between skilled and not skilled content affect the playerbase psychologically? If you failed at doing something that is apparently not even rewarding the skillcurrency.. what does that make you?

here is my opignon to this question:

Skill is a mix between fast reaction time and the knowledge to make the right decitions at the right time.

It actually can’t because tentaqul isn’t a test of your skills, most things that truely test your skill is solo content or contet that Needs good Teamwork that can only be done by a full Group of 5 and can’t be done under any circumstances with 4(Everyone Needs to do the right things at the right time or it Fails so People can’t get carried for exmaple SAB tirbunational all People needed to pass checkpoints). If you have solocontent like liadri light up. Finding out a build that makes it easier is a clever trick but it is part of beeing skillfull and having the knowledge how things work. A trick that helps you out is always legit to pass the content and prove your skill if it is to easy to do the content with tricks that are legal than the content wasn’t a challenge in the first place.

Personally I guess about 10% it is I think about the People that managed clocktower in a reasonable time maybe less. For me personally not beeing able to complete somthing motivates me to get better Focus more to overcome the challenge ( I love challenges). But there might be several other opignons and I can only speak for myself.

It can, People also in gw1 that were very skillfull at farming doing content. Had the right builds and knew exactely when to press wich skill to get most out of there dmg cc whatever was needed to kill certain Mobs. So yes skillfull farmers can pull / bomb more. But than again since farming is repetitive and not so much rng becoming a skillfull farmer is way easier than becoming a skillfull Player.

I think it actually Closes the gap between hardcore and casual. I think the most hardcore Players are not the most skillfull Players. A skillfull Player could easy catch up to hardcore Players with they’re skill. And again you speak so much about Gold, you actually don’t Need Gold for anything once you have your gear. And I personally think that skillfull Play should be rewarded by Special accountbound items. So you don’t get rich you just have some Special reward / Show of reward that doens’t make you better or harm others. There is no Point in rewarding skillfull Play with somthing that can be farmed as well since it won’t matter for the skillfull Players. ( Ok if there was a challenge to get all legendaries I would get it but if the same challenge would offer a unique title instead of all legnedaries I’d take the title:))

I don’t think there is anything that spreads the Playersbase if you pass a skillchallenge you passed it you are happy. If you fail you either realize that you can’t do it or you go for it again and as soon as you get it you will have a great Feeling of accomplishment why would this harm the playerbase?

So the next "Post about it " was from isaiah to kinda ignore the Topic by saying he already have given an answer:

As chris said going to be hard to keep to a 3 page summary with this one but I’ll get started

Topics
*Fractal Resets
*Ascended Gear
*Horizontal Progression
*Vertical Progression
*Grind
*Art Progression
*Alts
*Gates
*Map progression
*Ascended creation time

There where a a lot more topics but I figured I’ll get a start before I head home

Fractal Resets
See my above post on this.(refearing to the post I posted at start wich is completly unclear and doesn’t answer many of our questions)

As our community was not statisfied we kept asking and this is what we got from you ( besides the fact you we’re thinking about an answer):

The Fractal progression reset conversation is something I am still thinking about so please bear with me.

Regarding ascended mats and ascended gear drop balancing across WvW and Fractals: We are in the process of looking at the numbers and acquisition accessibility.

The next answer we got from you:

All,

This is my last day at work before the holiday season and I am going to be very busy!

Once I am on vacation I will have more time to respond and engage.

I am therefore going to postpone the focused discussion on Horizontal Progression until tomorrow. I will catch up post page 36 today (or at least try).

Meanwhile I have a question. This thread is BIG. Would the folks who have already commented on Horizontal want a new thread which is just based on Horizontal or should we just carry on with this thread?

Regarding my reminders from you about comments on some kind of reward for the Fractal reset, I am still thinking about feelings around it.

Chris

The next Thing that might be about the reset but possible is not:

Romo.3709:

Chris, is there any update regarding fractals in general? Maybe suggestions that we can tune in on or possible balancing of dredge fractal? In general, anything at all?

Hi Romo,

As soon as there any updates we can discuss we will let the community know.

Maybe we could do a CDI on the Fractals next year?

Chris

another answer still I’m not sure if you just going than to completly ignore the reset that happenend and just will talk about Things you should do with fractals in future ( This is a cdi you should have done a year ago). Or you actually mean you going to have finally has an answer to all our questions regarding a reset:

Romo.3709:

Chris, is there any update regarding fractals in general? Maybe suggestions that we can tune in on or possible balancing of dredge fractal? In general, anything at all?

Hi Romo,

As soon as there any updates we can discuss we will let the community know.

Maybe we could do a CDI on the Fractals next year?

Chris

I know it’s a Long post but it’s a recap on what we got so far out of continously asking in various forms our questions, and I really hope it helps to see that there are many unanswered questions and maybe to understand that it’s hard to not be asking over and over again if your answer is that you’ll get an answer somewhen but made the experience that if you ask things about fractals ( For example when I asked a year ago if scale 80 is the cap) You can wait for a year and still has no answer. Anyway best luck finding the answers:)

The open Fractal reset Question:

First post in this whole discussion:

Before talking about character progression, horizontal or vertical, I think it would be necessary to have a word on Anet view about progression reset.

With the Fractured patch, many players saw their progression (fractal level) resetted to 30, without any kind of compensation for that loss.

Many threads were opened on the forums to talk about it. The first few got deleted, even some pretty big threads, like this one:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Fractal-personal-level-reset/

Another was locked here (over 850 posts):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Fractal-levels-above-30-to-be-reset/first

And finally the last one active is this one (over 1000 posts):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/fractured/Merged-Fractal-level-reset-is-equity-wiped-Discuss/first

Over 2000-2500 posts were made, without any concrete answer from Anet. The only answer we got, 3 weeks ago, from a community coordinator, is that “the Developers are reading these posts and we are gathering feedback.” But not a word from those developers since.

Of course, in those 2000 posts, some were quite vindicative, especially after seeing we were completely ignored, but quite a few were also constructive, like this one from Abramelin:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Fractal-levels-above-30-to-be-reset/page/15#post3236535

So, before talking about progression, let’s talk about progression reset. Because if Anet consider it’s okay to reset a player progression without any form of compensation, why talk about progression anyway, it can be reseted at any time…

Than there was a single time answer by Isaiah:
As we were looking at the fractal reworks we wanted to change the relative values of how hard it was to work through the fractals, because of this we wanted to bring everyone to a common starting point. We knew this was going to be controversial but we really wanted everyone to be on an even play field and once we got the feedback about it we started looking into ways we could mitigate this risk. This is a common practice we do with all releases and risks and sometimes like with this one we were not able to do anything due to time constraints and tech. It’s wasn’t our goal to devalue peoples time and effort and when reworking stuff sometimes these types of tradeoffs happen. We wanted to create a new scaling paradigm that would give us more room in the future for adding fractals and we felt the current systems was harder to scale. Our original design was for players to go past 50 but this wasn’t able to happen in time.

Right a very Lawmen like answer that didn’t answer the question asked. Besides if every development is a tradeoff it only means that a progression reset can happen at any time and if this is a fact actually it is pointless investing time on talking about progression that can be taken away at any Point without a garanty for compensation. we kept asking for a more clear answer and after Romo posted this:

I’m still having a hard time facing the fact that you guys think it’s ok to reset progress and don’t offer anything for it. New fractals are not a compensation since everyone is getting it regardless of what level they were. I just wanted to say I’m disappointed. Weeks of discussion in “Fractured” sub-forum ended up being a total waste of time just like leveling my alts to level 50 in fractals. Just wanted you to know that I believed in you guys till the very end to at least attempt to make it right.

We got this answer from Chris:
Really good start to this topic folks. Excellent discussion, and really good ideas.

I am blown away, thanks everyone you have made my day. I love the CDI and so far this is a really good example of how I imagine it should be.

Romo regarding your last post I am going to spend some time thinking about how you feel and get back to you if that’s ok?

Belzebu.3912:

khani.4786:

snip

I’m in a similar boat.
1800 hours since day 1 of the game, almost 12k AP, 6 lvl 80’s, every LS done, all JPs done, rank 80 in WvW, I kill world bosses daily (not all bosses though), and a total of 0 precursors, but at least I got a rabbid ascended weapon box from WvW.

so to complain as well. I have 4k hours spent since day one, almost 15k ap , 7 Level 80’s, all ls achievment and stuff done, about rank 240 in wvw, I finished fractals scale 80 including maw, I lighted up liadri… dude who cares legendary are crap cause they don’t hsow off accomplishment but stupid grind .. just ignore em like I do I don’t have one even with double the time played I don’t have a legendary or ever dropped e prcursor

I share the secret with you they reworked the leveling System to be more smooth. For this reason they will reset all your character Levels to 30 and make Levels accountbound and make it able to Level up to 150 within the next 4 months as they did with fractals.

What I could maybe should have done:

I could have the same account I have with the same items maybe a couple of legendaries and a bit of Money more if I would just have played with the mass.
- Farming 15g / hour with TA instead of investing 2 months of hardcore gameplay to get first to scale 81
- Wait when new Content gets released till it gets nerfed so everyone can Play it.
- Farm skyhammer to have a higher pvp rank than I have now and have a huge ammount of Money from selling presents at start of wintersday
- Trading instead of running dungeons and buy the dungeonruns for some Gold ( or even to make Gold for example with the ac run that is beeing exploited)
- Just have an account that Plays less and is more lucky and drop a precursor
(This is just because this is the way gw1 dropsystem worked you got better Drops if you weren’t logged in for Long time)

So anyway maybe sometime 1 guy will get what my Problem is especially with the fractals reset it’s not that I haven’t had the experience while playing it is just that I have the Feeling that investing time NOW is pointless than they will Keep programming and reseting things for the big mass that is playing the game LATER so why not just Play it later and have WAY better loot and the Better reward for less time invested.

I know this might be a minor opignon but it is still one.

This might is a bit zynic but if I was a rich guy that made Money in tradingpost without playing the game I would earn in those Systems the rewards as following

Which current system do you think works great specifically? In theory, we have a lot of systems already

For me, I think some our current systems of horizontal progression and their earn systems are:

- Collect skins: Purchase them for currencies (which becomes play the fastest way to earn currency X), get them as rare drops (play fastest way to kill mob/content type X), or purchase them off the trading post. (Play the fastest way to earn gold)
- basicaly Gold for all other currencies just pay for an exploited run in the area you want to have tokkens

- Skills: Collect skill points. (Which becomes play the fastest way to earn XP, or skill points.)
-just buy dungeonruns to get the skillpoints you need

- Achievement Horizontal Rewards: These are things like achievement point skin unlocks, titles, etc. This is more just sort of play everything that gives achievement points, since very little of it is repeatable.
- most Points are in dailies here wich is a big Problem but as a rich guy I don’t care about achievment Points because I already have all legendaries and don’t have to care for the Skins

- Legendary: This one doesn’t really have a totally clear path to acquisition other than earn crazy amounts of gold, which goes back to play the fastest way to earn gold. (note legendary is only horizontal if you already have ascended)
I just buy as many as I want and control the market

- WxP Abilities: Complete objectives worth points in WvW. (Complete objectives as fast as possible, find a group to help you do this. Of all the above this is basically just telling you to play WvW, and though it is as some degenerate aspects is probably the least so) there are no Special Skins or rewards besides a mini dolyak so why should I care?

- PvP Skin Locker & PvP Ranks: Play PvP. (This is basically just play PvP since the latest release.)
hmm there are some finishers I want I just go and exploit skyhammer for 2 weeks and have the equal result than People who cared and played for a year

- Making Liadri with light up the Darkness Achievment to gain Special spell effects.
This Looks really sick but I can’t buy it it sucks
-
- Rewarding a cool title for Players that put a lot of effort to get to the highest scales avaiable in fractals when they were released in 2012
This is kitten why should they deserve anything for they’re time invested that I can’t buy

Obviously this is not ment to be offensive but this is the way things feel
after 4k hours played and invested loads of time and Money to get to scale 81 in fractals getting 30k kills in wvw playing pvp to clim to rank 40. Having not aquired a single legendary. Having done cof p1 and arah p4 when they actually were hard ( before they got nerfed) You feel like nothing you have done actually matters this is a Feeling that might Need a bit aggresive way to describe. But you might see My Fractal Level just got reseted by Anet, My 30k kills might matter in the Long way for the title but not for the ap or for my wxp because most of those kills I got before the wxp System was in place. My pvp rank doesn’t matter besides the titles I got on the way while playing tourneys but in the end I could have just exploited skyhammer and saved a lot of time. Having done a dungeonmaster title in the first weeks and beeing proud of it doesn’t matter anymore since you can buy/sell LEGALY every single path there is in gw2. Fractal scales can be bought as well. I know I might be a minor part of People that actually Plays the game and have fun instead of farming / rushing dungeons I search the challenge ( haven’t found it yet besides light up the dark and doing Thing with less People than they are ment for). But I don’t see why you make all my efforts pointless by either:
- looking away by Major exploits like skyhammer
- or resetting our Progress by yourself

Just each of you foryourself how you would feel to realize that you have spent 1000’s of hours maybe half of time for nothing…..

ColinJohanson.2394:

Reading through a lot of the comments on various class diversification (or just stronger trait/skill diversification) concepts, one of the things that seems to be missing is a discussion on how you’d actually earn/unlock these additional abilities to make it a progression system.

One of the goals of progression, in this case horizontal, is to create an extended sense of game play and thus = reward for playing it.

For example, we’ve added more skills to the game recently, but those simply unlock with skill points, which basically means -> play any part of the game that gives exp, or kill champs to get skill point books. That’s ok as systems of unlocking horizontal progression go for the extended class diversification, but game play wise it generally means find the easiest place to get XP/champ-loot and do it over and over again for a large % of players, since folks most often gravitate towards the path of least resistance.

What sort of systems of horizontal progression unlocking would you like to see that’d accompany a system like extended class progression?

Challenging Content. This over and over again. If you have solo instances with Special bosses or stuff like the Gambit Cage where you Need to challenge your skill and class to get new visual stuff for your class(like the often mentioned Special effects for spells). Than there is absoutly no way to get it an easier way than just the way it is ment to get em. The main Problem for me with gw2 are 2 Points.

-Everything can be bought with Money ( Beisdes Liadri and Tribunational mode weapons) (fractal weapons are buyable as well since there is right now a spot on 49 for sale ).

- And of course that I still have no answer after several Posts of you in the vertical Progression Forum that we will have an answer on the issue of the fractal reset. In my eyes this thread is a slap in the face who lost a legit Progress and a lot of legit Progress and still are ignored. I know you might say now this sounds like a flame but it isn’t it is just the way you make us feel. With talking around Progression and how it should work , while completly ignoring the fact that you have reseted our Progression and hard work without and answer or excuse.

Why did the reset happen?

Why was the reset not to 0 if it was for the sake of starting fair into leaderboard?

Why are Leaderboards not implemented with the reset if they were the reason for the reset?

Why is there no comprehension for our loss of time and effort?

Why is the Topic of fractals and several issues completly ignored or postponed with answers in threads and even People are banned for asking about the reset on livestream?

Why is it so hard to talk with us?

Why you think it is completly fine to reset Progress in an MMO if only a small but very dedicted playerbase gets hurt?

Those question bother me for months now I really just hope to get an answer. And don’t take this as an offense Chris. It is hard to stay objective if Feelings are involved and you can’t write in your native language on top of that.

Just look at every Thing that sounds negative or offensive in this text as an Expression on how dedicted I am to this game and how much I care for this game and Fractals. If this wasn’t the case it would be way easier to write a clean and maybe really objective text..

I still hope for at least a fair and simple answer. ( not one of your buisness texts but one in the style of your sab programmer who was always honest with his sab playerbase and had no issues to say when he might have done somthing wrong)

Regards

A maybe a bit overdedicted guildwars player

Hey Chris,

I really hoped I don’t ask this again in the new year but: Any update on Fractals reset?
We were told we get an answer. I know it’s Holiday ect but I didn’t get any update or answer so far so I Need to ask again. I have a Feeling it will otherwise just get forgotten.

In my view it is : A hit in my face to have a thread almost as Long as the thread about resetting our Progress about Progression wich is unable to answer the questions:

What reasons made you think that fractal reset is a smart idea? ( besides NOT implemented leaderboards, and the Point that we don’t start on equal footage if we start on 30 instead of 0 )

Why you didn’t think or metion some Kind of reward for Player who have spent huge ammount of time to go to Level 81?

What can us give back some trust in you, so we don’t have to fear every Progress we make can be reseted or deleted without any comment?

Can you still track who had achieved wich Levels prepatch?

Those question hang around for sooo Long and it sadens me the longer the more to have no answer.

Happy New Year

I really hope I’ll get some answer this year

My top 3:

1.) Answer for the reason of the reset of Fractals Progress. Still my main issue that beeing reseted without a comment or reason makes Progress in common just pointless to me and other Players. We can’t know if it will happen again just loose hard work for no commperision. I still hope to get an answer here to this issue.

2.) Rewards and aknoledgement that are not BUYABLE for doing certain Content ( orders, hard Content Special instabilities, hard achievment ( like light up))

3.) Less living Story and achievments that Need to be grinded every 2 weeks.. the updates are great but it burns out if you have all achievment so far and a sence of completition. it would be nice if there is an Option to redo ls Content achievments and stuff or leave them open ( unlike the fractal achievments for 1 month)

Conski Deshan.2057:

Twinny.9304:

3. Currency Conversion: Since there are so many currencies in the game each specific to different sectors of the game, it would be wise have the ability to convert currencies. For example: I do not play fractals but find some of the Fractal rewards appealing, but have no other way to get these rewards. Or I need a new set of ascended trinkets but used the last of my laurels on ascended weapon/armor recipes. I may have masses of 1 particular dungeon token or WvW badges or Karma which could be converted to the currency i require at that moment in time. which makes things less time gated and forcing ppl to do something they don’t enjoy to get something they want/need.

I disagree with this very strongly, the same with the guy suggesting a way to get dungeon tokens outside of dungeons.
From a functional standpoint it won’t work as intended, players will find the most efficient token generating activity and then run that again and again, similar to the champ farms which is the opposite to progression.
From a personal standpoint if you want any item you are going to earn it from the same place as everyone else, regardless of how much you like or dislike that aspect, you don’t get to invalidate another persons work because you don’t want to do the activity.

As a general thought to any further suggestions by people, have this consideration: Does my suggestion involve nullifying or invalidating anothers work?
That is, suggestions like lowering ascended stats to exotic, giving legendary stat changing to ascended, giving any reward earned from a specific activity to people who have not done that activity.

Also the thread seems to be drifting towards traits/skills/combat which I feel don’t make for good progression, just general customization.

I basicaly agree I think if they should do anything they should pull out a bunch of titles and items that are tied to a specific sector and Need to be earned there ( NOT WITH RNG OR MONEY).

Biggest Problem atm is that you can basicaly buy everything with Money.. -Dungeontokkens you can buy with buying a spot of one of the countless sellers..
. legendary can be bought with Money
- whole ascended armor can be bought with Money ( I know there actually are things like bloodstone dust and empyral and dragonit ) But you can buy presents and triforce key that give you dragonit / empyral and bloodstone. So it can be bought with Money.

Only Thing that can’t be bought with Money : Tribunational mode Skins, Liadri , Fractal weapons.

It should be a bit concering that everything can be bought with Money and that People who actually Play the game can’t afford a legnedary even with 4k hours played.

Btw speaking of moves that makes Progression of other Players meaningless. The nerfs to dungeons like cof 1 ( the endboss of cof 1 was a nice fight first weeks ) , Fractals reset, no reaction to skyhammer farmers , Allowing dungeonselling.

Those were moves that made Progression of People meaningless and I hope they won’t occur that often again or at least won’t be ignored so hard ( fractals reset and skyhammer farming).

The Dungeon Master title had some meaning in the start of the game but is meaningless now since dungeonspotselling is officially allowed ( somwhere in the dungeon Forum it was mentioned that it is a legit way to make Money).
Skyhammer farming made the work spent in over a year of pvping in tourneys for some People completly meaningless because others could get their ranks within 2 weeks.
Fractal reset finally made some People completly lose faith in progressing in the game since they have the Feeling it can be taken away anytimg ( THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE FOR ME ATM)

If you want to have a System for Progression you NEED to make sure that Progression takes always more or less the same time. But as Long as progression of 1 Player with 500 hours spent can be farmed away / taken away or bought for the Money and time of 10 hours… People will just ask themself is worth progressing if it can’t be assured that the Progress you make where you spent several hours won’t be for nothing laters.

I think it be just nice to get an answer what they gonna Change in the way leaderboards tracking down Progress.. I think it is smart after having offended all dedicted fractal Players with a reset that coulnd’t be predicted and wasn’t talked about as well, to actually talk from a devs side what your ideas are on making the leaderboard mean somthing…before you implemenet some Thing you spend again loads of time on that is actually wasted and isn’t fair or smart in any way just talk.. it seems to be so hard to tell the reasoning behind those leaderboards and the reset. I Keep wondering why if you just told it was a mistake to do so 6 weeks ago I would have my peace of mind..

So I throw in some Ideas as well:
- Gambits for dungeons
- instabilities for dungeons
- Special achievments /titles for dungeon done with certain instabilities / gambits ( Don’t make em random so People reroll or have luck let People choose and make achievvments like dungeon completed with x instabilities ect / certain gambits. Have Special titles or even Skins for People that are unique to those achievments and NOT buayable..

and for the very end explain the fractal Players about the reset so they can enjoy the game again without having the permanend fear that the time spent or Progress made will be reseted without any comment or compensation:)

Just to have it in this thread again since most likly you won’t look at the old one: any update on fractals reset?

Manuhell.2759:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Manuhell.2759:

Constructive ideas (like, how to make a good leaderboard), instead, would be useful.

I did that in my post. There’s only one way to make a good leaderboard, all the others that were discussed in the fractured subforum were no good. If this way isn’t used, it’s better to not have leaderboard, than to have a leaderboard recording wrong things (like who paid the most to get AR the fastest).

Indeed, the one that was supposed to be implemented would have been terrible. Regarding your suggestion, i think that even putting infinite levels and tracking the max level would present a problem you later mention in your post: that is, some professions would be excluded from the higher levels. Albeit, imho, there isn’t a real solution about that unless all the classes are properly balanced pve wise.
And tracking about time, as you said, would present the problem given by the different lengths of the fractals.
But what about the solution i proposed? By having a leaderboard per every level – as they present different challenges due to the various instabilities – and using a point system that properly differentiates between the fractals, but by still giving the same amount of points per fractal?
Doing so, even if used the time spent to complete fractals as a factor, it would account for the different lengths. And other factors could be taken in account as well – be it deaths, being downed or other things.

This would cause a Leaderboard were nobody knows what the real factors are that they are at the place they’re at. They don’t know if it is smart do do isntability 122 and advance or spend the time to do instability 42 and 43 in a faster way. The only Leaderboard in my opginon that is fair is highest Level completed and the Level Need to get soo hard that not everybody will be able to complete em.. And I don’t think classes are excluded .. I played with my ele I think ele is pretty strong. I played with the Group I played first in following Setup: 2 guards 1 engi 1 thief 1 ele, second Group I helped out to get to 80 was 4 ele’s and 1 guard. I know that 1 of the first Groups that I know that reached 80 also pretty fast. There was a necro and a ranger.. so I’m not sure about mesmer and wars tbh ( I know some wars and mes on 80). So I really think all hard Content can be done with every class. I know of no class that coulnd’t beat the hardest things pve wise in GW2 liadri with light up the dark was beaten on all classes same for fractals scale 80.

Short Version: I really think the System should be with highest Level achieved and there should be no AR prohibiting you from advancing.

Nike.2631:

DESSA’S CHAMPIONS: FOR SERVICES RENDERED!
This is a proposal for recognition of the creativity and skill displayed in assisting Dessa’ investigations into the Fractals of the Mist above and beyond what had at first appeared possible.

Hey really appretiate the work done here. Since you got already a very good answer I won’t answer it again. Still I think speaking of AR there need to be Major changes. I think to Hand us out AR infusions would basicaly mean you will need em to advance.
Basicaly I hope that they just remove the fix aplying of AR(Gearchecks) so you can advance again with skill and without all These infusions. If they wanna Keep those gearchecks I think a semi good Solutions is to give us accountbound AR(somehow the same as Magic find) for each instability completed firsttime so that People who completed all previous Fractals always have enough AR to advance. Still I think removing the gearchecks and x0 Levels would be the best solution.

For the one who asked about the Karma I never looked about it but I looked it up for you :

(640 + 8 * Completed difficulty) * (Personal reward level – Completed difficulty) = Karma awarded The (Personal reward level – Completed difficulty) factor is capped at 10.
All bonuses (from achievements, banners etc.) are applied to the Karma reward.

this if Rom the wiki accourding to this: I would get around 10-12k Karma at the end. This is without boosts so with guild boosts Banners ect you might be around 12k for sure no matter what fractal completed. This Means 20* 12k for leveling up again = 240k Karma I already didn’t get. This are about 3*240 Events wich is about Karma awarded in 750 Events completed. Another reason I think a 1 time flat Karma reward would be nice and doesn’t harm anybody:)

cesmode.4257:

Nike.2631:

Dondarrion.2748:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Hi Chris,

Short reminder: Fractals reset?

Hi Chris,

please ignore this stupid, non-constructive remark.

Why the sudden upswing in volunteer moderation in this thread? Not just this post, there have been a couple lately.

And as a purely objective critique, how is this remark stupid? It was a topic in this thread in the past and our resident Dev-host indicated he was still thinking about it.

To those who are curious about that bit of cogitation, consider:

Fractal reward levels are actually horizontal progression (not vertical). They don’t give you ANY mechanical advantage outside of the fractals themselves. Unlocking level 50 doesn’t give you new skills or new buffs. The Ascended Gear can be earned without ever pushing deeper than LEVEL 1 (does progress get an ‘flatter’ than this? I mean really…).

So, please, just stand-by.

When we get into discussion horizontal progression, part of it will HAVE TO BE talking terms about some of the “soft” progressions. Is your increasing Luck/Magic Find a vertical progression? I personally don’t think so. If it’s possible for a number on your character sheet to go up, but for that to track horizontal progression (like ‘Luck’) then a number like “fractal reward level” has to be viewed as tracking a non-vertical progression also… and is about to become very topical to this thread.

I would agree. I understand why people were irate about being reset. But in the grand scheme of things, does it matter? Level 30, level 50…who cares? Lvl 50 gives you a slightly better chance at ascended stuff maybe? And an excuse to beat your chest a little harder than the guy at 30, or 20.

Eh, I just don’t see the big deal about being reset down to 30. You aren’t losing anything, just a number corresponding to level, which roughly content remains the same through the levels.

I lost Level 81. I lost 51 scales. I lost hudge ammounts of Karma I don’t get while playing fractals wich are worth more now after Karma reset. I lost the Chance of getting for 100% a Skin or a ring at daily chest if I had enough ar to complete 80 again. And most importanly I lost time… time is the key Thing here if your time spent gets reseted you feel angry about it no matter if you lost 200 hours for farming a legendary and the legendary gets deleted or you loose 200 hours for playing fractals and your Level gets deleted.

Dondarrion.2748:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Hi Chris,

Short reminder: Fractals reset?

Hi Chris,

please ignore this stupid, non-constructive remark.

What makes this remark stupid and non-construcitve? It is indeed very needed and constructive if talking about Progression also talking about Progression reset that happened. Chris himself told at least 2 times that he will comment on it and doesn’t have an answer yet.

@ Chris If you really read all this Forum I hope this gives you a minor insight in what place we are currently. Blamed and left alone by the community of the game. Even People who did great work at doing a complete site with dungeonguides ect and helped out the community got blamed and flamed hard for questioning the reset. If you ever have time to Read the fractured Forums you might get a Feeling about the accusations we had to here all this time, and might understand why our tone and writestyle isn’t always that friendly..

Beeing accused several times to use non itended gamemechanics for the use of rez orbs at maw. Without having any comment of a dev that gives you some shelter or whatever, after asking for 1 year over a confirmation if 80 was the cap and if you were supposed to go there is just frustrating. You have somthing taken away reseted from you and when you ask for a explonation why this happened. you have a whole croud throwing words at you that you don’t deserve an answer/explonation or anything….

Hey Chris,

This is really CDI as it should be:

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’re holding the leaderboard for now to see if we can’t decide on a better way to help differentiate people on it who are all at the same tier, other than just the first who got there specifically. Once we have decided that, we’ll need to code, test, and vet it and then update the leaderboards to reflect the new tracking.

Once you have decided how you gonna implement the leaderboards you will code test it and vet it and than update it… ehhhhhmm waiiiit maybe for just one time , Before you set us all to Level 1 again because you realized that starting a race from Level 30 isn’t fair you should: SPEAK TO YOUR PLAYERBASE!

I mean there is currently just no good idea to implement a leaderboard…. if you have one tell us. Here are some bad Ideas:
-First come first serve ( unfair for the top Players because some got unlucky with RNG or got mai trin on 37 before fix)
- Fastest completition of each Level ( This will be RNG again that you get good fractals )
- Fastest completition time of each Level per Fractal ( People would just Need to grind low Level fractals again to get better times to stay on the top)
- A mix of everything ( Bad still we actually have no clue why we are Standing where we Standing )
- Completition of a Level with lowest Agony resistance ( I can do all Levels with 0 Agony resistance even the 50’s because I can search good enough teammembers that can carry me / I can carry them to do those Levels)

I can’t think about anything else besides the easiest:
- Highest Fractal Level completed
This is the best System IF you can just stop that GEARCHECK. Players Need to be able to advance to the highest places of the Leaderboards with just they’re exotics. Without having to wait at certain Levels to farm up for a new Infusion. This new Gemshop item that can split infusions away without destroying the Upgrade worries me that you will take exactly the Direction of just geargating Levels/leaderboards ..It probably will feel that way as soon as you open 50 again: “great your at the cap your skill didn’t get tested but you still have to wait till you can advance. because you don’t have the right gear”

Just tell me a reason why it is so hard to make Accoundbound Agony resist for each firsttime completition of instability that is high enough ( If you completed all previous instabilities ) to advance without investing more Money?

As I posted before:
-True Leaderboards People who complete the highest scales will Need to have played most instabilities not just the x0ers to Level up with enough AR.

- Alt friendlyness

- No Gear but Skillgating

- People can still have the save net of just buying gear to make up for they’re missing skill in order to advance ( at least to a certain Point)

- You have nice instabilities in place you can make 100 to have 2 isntabilities , you can infinite scale it People just get they’re ar through playing.

- People will still aquire ascended for the stats for hard Content they can’t beat to get better and an Advantage

And please even if my Posts may Sound sometimes a bit offensive or aren’t the best english don’t look at em as sort of a flame. I woulnd’t take my time ( Several hours since 1 week before the fractal patch went live /with several Forum bans and infractions due to defending myself of beeing an exploiter) to make your guys at least consider another direction your currently going. If I would think all hope is lost I just woulnd’t care at all.
If you tell me now:
-that you have no System to track down Progress made of Players before the fractured reset
-You think somthing like this can happen again and you have no incetive to Retro Award Players for they’re work
-that Fractals are gonna be some place where you will need infusions worth several hundreds /thousends of Gold to advance to the highest Levels available.

I will glady leave the Forums with the answer and the knowledge I can’t make an Impact.

But as Long as this isn’t confirmed as well as there is no answer on the reset and what you do about it or think about it.. I just can’t get my peace of mind. And there will always be a Little light of hope

Hi Chris,

Short reminder: Fractals reset?

Sina.9208:

This is not fair to the ppl that put hard effort to climbing the “leaderboards” …

And it’s not fair for People that put in hard effort and get drawn back by RNG and a mai trin fractals on 37. And it’s not fair for People who actually played fractals before and who were on top of the “leaderboards” when they not existed. For the People that really put in effort and were the first on 80… this leaderbaords are meaningless anyway.They can’t track down anything that is fair.

Given that you wanna track down time: People Need to just redo all Levels to get a better time wich is quite pointless and not big of an achievment + it depends what fractals you get.
World first is also pointless cause there were bugs at release.
Only way to make leaderboards having some Kind of sence is to make fractal Levels infinite and so hard that some People can’t Progress anymore and others can.

Btw I sit myself at 50 since 4 days after patch but I don’t care about leaderboards I never did I was one of the first on scale 81 if not the first and still Idc I grinded this Content for challenge not for having my Progress reset and my Name somhwere visible for some random guys that don’t care.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

I can see your point, but this gear is mandatory for fractal players, as some of the new agony can’t be dodged anymore, therefore you need more, which you can only get by:
- spending a lot of time and gold for infusions crafting
- spending a lot of time and gold for ascended armor crafting…

Before someone comes and say: “Fractals is for hardcore players, they need vertical progression there”, hardcore fractal players want a challenge. Fractal players want their skill to be challenged, not their stuff !

I totally agree with this and I hope Chris can think about a system where you get accountbound AR similar to mf for each instability firsttime completition.

→ You can get the AR needed to advance with simply playing the game
→ people would stop leveling up with easy instabilities only
→ You could finally swap between your alts without having to swap back each boss fractal

I really can’t think of anything that would harm the playerbase when implementing such a system. It would also help to increase levels maybe add several instabilities when past 100 without having to make sure there is gear avaiable in the firstplace for people to advance. I think it should be possible to advance to the highest levels without beeing forced to invest money in + 10 infusions and stuff.

Hope you take this suggestion into consideration when building releasing next levels.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

Chris

I hate to say that but increased droprates doesn’t matter for me. I have almost 4k hours played this game the drop that was worth most money for me was a an exotic staff worth 8 gold on fractals scale 14 I think. At this point I’m completly fed up with all forms of RNG, can you imagine that dedictet players get annoyed by this system? I mean I played everything around 30k kills wvw, rank 40 pvp , fractals 81 , early dungeonmaster 2 weeks after release ect.. Still I can’t afford an my legendary staff after all these hours having 7 lvl 80’s char played every aspect of the game…

Is it really so hard to implement some fix reward for hard content or some things like having done a event x times rewards for sure a certain skin or stuff?

Can you imagine that it is annoying that you see the way you played the game was stupid? There are people with way less gametime higher pvp ranks ( Skyhammer exploit they dind’t get reseted), Made money on tp have mutiple legendaries and bought they’re dungeonmastertitle (wich is perfectly legit I know), and played fractals to lvl 30 in before patch ( so they didn’t loose those 51 levels) and only leveled up with dailies instead of rushing to 50 ( cause of leaderbaords ) thus having more rewards there again. With the glory that didn’t get removed from skyhammer farmers they can even easy buy lvl 80 chars now with the new way to level with books and glory.

It’s just a feeling like getting hurt again and again instead of awarded for beeing a loyal player since about 8 years of guildwars.. and it’s way worse than not having a legendary or anything.. it’s the feeling that I feel like there is no point in progressing today since I can do it in 10% of the time tomorrow.. ( I could have played 2 weeks skyhammer to get my rank 40, in about 10% of the time, I also wasted about 90% of the time in fractals for going to scale 80 using rez orbs money for repair cannisters and stuff)
Those are the main 2 issues that there are to less fix, and accountbound rewards!
You can buy everything with money… play the tp is atm the best way to aquire anything.. Why the heck making it possible that people can basicaly buy ascended armor?
Why are legendary weapons buyable?

In my opignon the main issue with progress: It is pointless, as long as
a.) You can buy it with money as well
b.) You can farm it in a way and don’t get banned for it making the progress and time spent for other people obsolete ( example: Skyhammer , Gladiator title in gw1 (farmable bevor update))
c.) Your progress can get deleted without compensation ( see fractals ( I keep saying this till I have an answer that is honest and makes sence))
d.) You can’t really progress RNG( You can do 10000’s fractals and not get a single skin if your unlucky

Only fix prestige rewards in the game are : Liadri, SAB Tribunational mode weapons!

I still think and what I know at least from the more dedicted playerbase the main issue is that you completly lack of rewards that are special and tied to some gamemode.

I really hope you can start making things as fix reward for special work , or at least make things REALLY accountbound. ( You should not be able to buy time ( time gated materials if you are rich im my opginon)) and legendaries shoulnd’t be sold as well….

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Here is a crazy brainstorm idea, not in anyway indicative of our direction.

What if there was vertical progression in the Fractals with gear that increased in stats but when outside of the fractals defaulted back to BiS numbers?

I am asking this because it is going to generate some left field conversation not because I think it is or isn’t a good idea.

Chris

If you do this you Need to give a fix Bonus for each instability done ( So People don’t skip and do only easy instabilities).
The Creatures Need to get harder.( It shoul still be getting harder not beeing the same with the new stats)
Rethink Agony ( This is the biggest Problem atm People can’t get the AR needed with just playing fractals )

So another idea for you: What if you add some accountbound agony: You get for each instability completed firsttime a certain ammount of AR. This ammount of AR would make sure that you can Progress without having to buy additional gear and stuff.

This would provide: Altfriendlyness ( since you can swap to alts main issue here atm you can swap to alts but you Play with 0 ar no Problem but still sometimes annoying;))

No geartrademill: What I really loved when I leveled to 81 at first was the fact that People stopped at around 30 cause they said it’s too hard dmg from agony .. and we could advance cause we had a nice teamplay with reflects absorbs shadowrefuges rezes ect when sombody gots hit by agony.. this really felt like beeing able to aquire somthing threw skill not just because I have the right gear.. Atm I feel like I getting worse at playing cause I don’t care anymore about agony attacks.

Short Version:
-Add accoundbound agony resist for the firsttime completition of each instability
- If you make statsgain make sure it’s not statsgame for leveling up but for completing each instability so People don’t skip the kittenes ( and only do 30’40’50 with proper ar)

I think it isn’t a too bad idea and while still waiting on an answer about the reset I really appretiate the step to talk about ideas about fractals with your playerbase:)

A big Problem in my opginon about Progression is the RNG!

While it can be pretty exciting to get a rare drop, there should be more fix Skins / signs of reward ( like in LS atm ) for hard/Special Content. I played well over 3.5k hours (all across Content) still I don’t have a legnedary. Main issue I didn’t drop/ can afford a precurser. I would like to see some System where you get some rewards for sure after doing a specific Encounter / hard Content for several times. Like completed 500 fractals you get + 10 Infusion for 1000 + 15 Infusion ect.. ( Btw I think infusions should drop higher than + 1 on higher Levels…:))

Anyway waiting for an answer on the reset , I really hope this CDI leads to some good changes.

Stooperdale.3560:

Progression – difficult topic.

Gear – I am against gear grind.

Gating content – I think you should keep the open access principle for all content so please don’t introduce progression with keys and gating for any content. I liked the fractal principle where all characters have access to enjoy the content but experienced characters can get better rewards for higher challenge. I’d like this principle to be applied more widely.

Personally I think the fractal level reset was fair and I would be happy if the fractal levels were more compressed (so that new players are not left with an insurmountable mountain to climb.). A title could have been given to the old level 49 achievers though.

Hey just some imputs for you! If you are truly against geargrind you don’t want to see the fractal gaiting concept to be used in other serctions. Fractals are gated only by geargrind! You can advance only if you grind gear this wasn’t the case at start of the fractals but is the case now. You Need the right AR to get past certain Levels so it’s geargrind only.

From your last sentence I take that you barly played fractals. I agree we should have gotten compensation for our work. But I Need to say I completly disagree and don’t get your Definition of Fairness if you say : It is FAIR that many hours of work gets deleted. Maybe you can explain me. as well as why you think a geargated Progress like Fractals is a smart solution if you don’t like geargrind.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Fractal Progression Reset

As we were looking at the fractal reworks we wanted to change the relative values of how hard it was to work through the fractals, because of this we wanted to bring everyone to a common starting point. We knew this was going to be controversial but we really wanted everyone to be on an even play field and once we got the feedback about it we started looking into ways we could mitigate this risk. This is a common practice we do with all releases and risks and sometimes like with this one we were not able to do anything due to time constraints and tech. It’s wasn’t our goal to devalue peoples time and effort and when reworking stuff sometimes these types of tradeoffs happen. We wanted to create a new scaling paradigm that would give us more room in the future for adding fractals and we felt the current systems was harder to scale. Our original design was for players to go past 50 but this wasn’t able to happen in time.

First off: “Our original design was for Players to go past 50” -> My scale 81 was perfectly legit that I got a year ago thanks for giving me some shelter against all the acusations of beeing an exployter!

Secondly: “We wanted everyone to be on equal starting Point”-> My question here that I really don’t get. Why didn’t you just reset everyones Progress to 0? I would understand this Argument if everyone would started again. So why reset just to Level 30?

Third: “This is a common practice we do with all releases and risks and sometimes like with this one we were not able to do anything due to time constraints and tech.” ->
Do you mean by this: We didn’t have time we look into it and reward Players retroactively? or This is a common practice and it can happen with all Releases again that some reset of Progress is gonna happen due to design desicions?

Last Words: I really see that you do things better than on fractured reset in the pvp section / wvw rank account bound section without getting anybody hurt even with pulling out some Special titles and stuff. What is the exact reason it was hard to give out a title or anything to People that aquired high scales before? I studied informatics so even a technical reason would be fine for me why this wasn’t going to happen. There are many People that could have farmed instead of doing fractals and would have made mutiple legendaries with the time they spent on fractals, on top of the rewards from fractals themselves(I played to 81 before january update so the rewards were way worse than after that update and scale 80 reward maw chest was worse than scale 1 maw chest of new fractals).

About Progression in new fractals itself: The main Idea might be great but there is a really big Problem with it:
- People can skip Levels with easier instabilities.
- The instabilities on scale 40,50 ect doesn’t exist! It’s now all just a gearcheck and since you Need the gear. Leveling up to scale 80 with doing those Levels with just the gear needed( wich is pretty moneybased since farming the Infusions is way to insane) Is easier than the old scales 40, 50 ect since agony is made obsolete because it won’t one shot you.
Leaderboards: Don’t have a meaning if:
- all sit on 50 and it is only decided who is first with who gets there first!( People we’re stuck on 37 cause of mai bug other bugs Fails ect)
- If the Progression is only doable with certain gear. If you Need several 100 golds to advance cause of a gearcheck, that doens’t make you a better Player than a Player who doesn’t have a gear. When you realeased fractals it was perfectly doable to go to 80 without having any AR at all.. now you implement These checks and there is no Workaround with skill for them. What is the design idea of making a geartrademill and don’t let People advance who have the skill because they can’t afford the gear? I already said this when I sat on 80 before the january 2013 update that this is a bad direction this game is going when People can’t go to 80 anymore because they don’t have the gear even if they have the skill to complete those fractals.

I really hope you can at least clarify some questions. And sorry for my bad english it just sin’t my main language.

Last question I forgott: Is there still a way to track on what scale People were before the patch that reseted them?

Greetings

Patrikan

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Happy Wintersday! The next CDI topic will be starting tomorrow and will be housed on this forum. The topic will be around Player Progression: Horizontal vs Vertical Progression.

Looking forward to discussing this topic with you all.

Chris

Hey Chris,

You forgott somthing about Progression in your game wich is pretty important to manyof us. The Topic should be: Horizontal vs Vertical vs Reset of Progression. Please don’t ignore the Topic that is so important for many of us about reseting Progression. Here you see that many People care about the reset of Progression: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/fractured/Merged-Fractal-level-reset-is-equity-wiped-Discuss/page/22#post3347630

It would really feel like a spit in our faces at least for my case if you talk about Progression and systematicly ignore my reset Progression!

Thanks in Advance!

A dedicted Fanboi

@Kal whats wrong about asking for an answer even if they do nothing it just be fair to give a quick answer to People. It’s not a big deal… atm the pvp section has the same issue waiting for an answer if they do somthing about legit and skyhammer ranks… they could just say no they don’t People might be dissappointed but would move on. Sicne they have an official answer and would know what to expect from the devs

phys.7689:

Ethics.4519:

Carighan.6758:

I still don’t really get the point. The only real alternative would have been to add 50-69 to implement the 19 new Mistlock conditions, and can you even imagine the whining if people had to get all the AR required for that?

This thread would drown in the flood if that happened.

Oh no! You mean other people would have to put in the same time, work, and energy that we did to experience that content. That’s an outrage! What a shame! /s

Also, this thread wouldn’t exist because there would have been no equity wiped (especially if 80s kept their levels)

Bright.9160:

I wonder how long I’m going to stick around to be honest. I barely log on anymore anyway.

Agreed. I haven’t played for a week, and may only come back on just to talk with friends & help them out. The horrible two week updates and the way the company craps on the minority definitely won’t keep me returning.

dont bring up the whole level 80 debate. someone linked a post where dev said AR was supposed to be unavoidable and people werent supposed to pass 40 until new gear was released(at the time i think 30 was max AR) He even said they didnt intend players to buy res orbs to pass it.

By bringing the 80 debate in, you dilute your point, focus on the progress loss that isnt debatable. ie 30-50.

as to the other point. Im sorry but having fractals be mechanical difficulty change only for level 20-50 was a bad design, putting less boring difficulty changes as highup kitten would defeat the purpose.

Ok you quoting a dev called Robert Hondura who isn’t working anymore at Anet so his Post is pointless. On top of that this dev was himself at lvl 54 when he posted it. And to put somthing more on top this Posts was made way after People reached scale 80. So the whole Point is invalid anyway:) Unless you can Show me a Post of a Anet-dev that is actually working at Anet that was made or stated People shoulnd’t go there before I went there I’m perfectly fine with it. If you can’t there is no Point in arguing about it. The gamedesign told we can→ we did it → no dev ever told we shoulnd’t have done it or we shoulnd’t do it→ search for my thread: " fractal cap scale 80?" you see we asked we have no answer so we just can’t know. So stop arguing about stuff you can’t know unless you Show some evidence!

Justin ODell.9517:

Where are you getting the idea that we are removing rewards?

This Idea may come out of the fact that you removed it(they’re personal reward Level 81 and stuff they worked for many hours) from all fractal Players without a comment (besides making leaderboards wich aren’t in yet and already most at 50 again) or compensation..I know it’s not your buisness but it may reflect to your community as well that there are over 1000 replies around it with 0 dev Responses and over 20k views on it…

Maybe Toymaker Trixx has a present for us…

Will Trixx bring a Special present to Player who lost they’re fractal Levels?

and all your Gold! But they have left a letter with new leaderboards on Gold aquired after the thievery!

[quote=3308900;Kal Spiro.9745 You can be compensated for the watch with a replacement or an equivalent value to the watch. You can’t be effectively compensated for your emotional attachment to the watch.[/quote]

But they didn’t compensate our Levels in any way, even if the reward might not be effectively what compensates us for our emotional Attachement. They could still Award us for the watch ( loose of fractal scales avaiable ). And please don’t say it’s just a number.. all is just a number Money Karma ect… So you agree that they at least needed to come up with some Kind of compensation for the watch ( fractal Level sacle loose) even if it coulnd’t make up for the effectively loss?

Slyther.1297:

This thread helped prompt me to finally make a suggestion over at https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Daily-meta-for-AP-hunters-sanity/first#post3310151

The short version is to add a daily meta, attach AP to the meta and set the dailies themselves to 0 AP. This way non-AP hunters see no change, while AP hunters can finally get a few hours back to do what they want. The 2-4 hour daily grind is really burning a lot of hunters out, including myself, the last thing I want to see is more time added on, which is what the new PvP achievements are going to do.

Honestly why doing this and not just make achievmentleaderboards achievmentleaderboards and remove all dailies monthly’s they could do this and it would be fair and easy for everyone:)

they add a new Zone to Level from 30-50 called the tenguzone for that reason all your character will be reseted to lvl 30. You can’t use your gear anymore till your 80 again HF!

You know it’s alway a bad sign if things getting stolen from minorities and the majority don’t cares about it or even says it is right…

I still have hope for this issue as well. As Long as they’re not responding and say what their reasoning behind this Action was and that they have no reason to give out compensation there is still hope they sometime will come to they’re sences!

The funny Thing is now there is wxp accountbound comming , there is a big pvp redo of the System those changes are way bigger than the ones made in fractals( I played old and new ones till the cap). And still if you apply the logic used here against compensation or some form of recognition to the work we did in fractals they completly don’t aggree. Some even say you shoulnd’t delete Progress in an game. Maybe all of you that still wanna persuade me of not deserving anything should start telling this the wvw and pvp community especially those kitten pvpers that get a one time title… it will hurt soooo much that they have this shiny title that no one can get after…. (sarcasm)

there Need to be Special rewards for both pve and pvp-> If they don’t start to make Skins accountbound and only optainable from a Special sector or challenge. Skins are most likely meaningless since the farmer can have the same Skin as the goldseller or the top pvp Player… soo I really hope they will make Special rewards / Skins for each category of the game (WvW and PvE included). Wich are accountbound part of a challenge and most important NOT SELLABLE!

IceVyper.6810:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

IceVyper.6810:

It is time to stop feeling like victims and do something productive. If you wanna play fractals, group up and get it done. Open the instance and you won’t get kicked. If a party sucks, leave it and join a new one. Chances are you will get into a nice group.

Sitting here and repeating how unfair we’ve been threated is not accomplishing anything.

I don’t agree with many of the changes, but they are here to stay so better move on to something more productive.

you go ahead, im gonna keep “feeling like a victim”

Sorry but im not going to stop.

I don’t think that repeated posts by the same person about “how unfair this is” is going to help the cause. Arena net said they are gathering feedback, we have given our opinions and made suggestions. They want to hear different opinions, not the same voice repeating the same thing.

Unfortunately this thread left the constructive critisism long time ago and now the general tone is a bunch of people feeling sorry for themselves.

Well they could have answered when we were constructive than … They don’t want to hear diffrent opignons it seems they most likely want to see they’re opignon :/ at least this is the way you feel when you are left out. Of course there are not so many opignons in a thread about a minority ( where many ppl already left in the last update). I just would like to hear an answer after they had gathered Feedback for well over 2 weeks now…

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Moshari.8570:

I have become even more disheartened by this level reset. When I first did my levels I did them with PUGs. It was hard, it was a lot of work and it was sometimes dealing with some really unsavory characters. But I got it done….I had the sense of accomplishment at even being invited and doing fractals above 50.

I tried over the long weekend (holiday here in US) to regain some of my lost levels. I did 5 fractal sets…yet my personal reward level is still only 33. I got kicked from two groups over the weekend at the final boss. One told me they were kicking me to bring in their guildmates so that their guildmates could advance (without having to spend the hours beforehand getting to the final boss)…the other kicked all of us at the final boss when the person who started the fractal suddenly disconnected (we had Mai Trin almost dead) whether on purpose or not we do not know.

So for about 8 hours of “work” to regain my lost levels, I gained 3 levels. Did I have fun? Not really, I am mainly doing it for the achievements right now. I used it as a “teaching” moment for 2 of the runs since the people were fairly obviously new at running fractals so I showed them some tricks that helped. Rewards? 3 infused rings that I already have a couple bank vaults full of….only these are the “new” infused rings.

I am still extremely bitter at this. All of my forward progress that I worked hard for is gone, and I will probably never get it back because of the PUG issue. I hate even running dungeons because of the griefers who grab the final chest and quit out closing the dungeon on the group…Fractals just makes it worse.

Aw, Moshari…

I am at lvl 31. Guild groups have been bad, and pugs have been worse. I’ve resorted to boss events in pve and chatting in LA in my time playing. It’s not worth the trouble.

sorry for you guys but trust me if you have done it you just sit around at 50 and have no reason to ever enter a fractal again.. rewards are still not worth it to do fractals over just some mindless afk farmruns. And somehow I am still stuck with the “loosing Progress Thing” it makes working for somthing at least for me pretty meaningles..
I don’t know the Feeling that it doesn’t matter and everything you do can be reseted is way worse than the actualy reset itself( well the actual reset caused the Feeling but still).