Guild Wars 2

Gurt.9368:

Not sure why no one else has responded to this, but there are quite a few flaws here.

Grenades get a whopping 50% extra damage from one 30 point trait in explosives. Without that trait, they are pretty lackluster, but with it they are good. For bombs to really shine though, they need 30 points in inventions and then another 20 or so in explosives. So engineers don’t get bombs and grenades in one spec.

I don’t know if I agree that Bomb Kit needs Elixir-Infused Bombs to “really shine.” It’s a nice trait, but for 30 points in Inventions, it’s really not worth it unless you actually plan on using turrets. Personal opinion.

Gurt.9368:

Elixirs need 30 points in alchemy to really shine due to the HGH trait, a trait that spells the difference between many using or not using elixirs as their heal and/or utilities. Flamethrower needs 20 points in alchemy for deadly mixture and 30 in firearms for juggernaut. Using any (not bomb) kits at all almost demands 10 to 20 points in Tools for kit refinement, speedy kits, or both. So while you can get a flamethrower or elixir gun build that makes good use of elixirs, the points are very tight and don’t allow any wiggle room.

Err, why?

Perma Swiftness is great in the world map and in WvW, but in dungeons you can easily swap it for Kit Refinement and keep only 10 points in Tools.

If you’re going with the Flamethrower, that means you’re building into Firearms, which has Infused Precision, meaning you’ll pretty much always have Swiftness up during combat (which is way more important and useful than swapping to Med Kit).

I also think there’s plenty more wiggle room than you indicate. There are many different variants out there for FT/EG builds:

10/30/0/20/10
10/30/0/30/0
0/30/0/30/10
0/30/0/20/20

They’re all viable. I personally switch between the last two depending on what I need (30/30/10 in dungeons IMHO) and I definitely don’t feel like I’m tethered to Alchemy even then. Remember that Tools offers extra crit damage, too.

Gurt.9368:

All of that said, the biggest problem is that it really feels like the engineer skills were all balanced around having max relevant traits. Which means that if you aren’t speced specifically for something, you might as well not take it.

Though Guardian is my only other level 80 class, I have to say that I don’t feel like this is an issue exclusive to Engineers. I definitely feel like certain weapons or skills are a total waste of time to use as a Guardian unless I spec into it. Why should Engineer be different?

There’s no build that’s going to leave you feeling powerful with kits, turrets, gadgets, and elixirs all at once. That would simply be too powerful … and pointless. We only have 3 utility slots, after all.

Manticore Five.9867:

And there you go again, you utter the words “balanced kit”, as if that somehow excuses the lack of damage.

Tell us how you really feel.

I like how not swallowing every ounce of internet-hysteria all of a sudden makes you into an apologist.

Manticore Five.9867:

And Penias, I apologize for assuming that you wanted actual damage to go with your damage-oriented kit and your damage-oriented trait. I won’t make that mistake in further discussions.

Well I think there-in lies the rub. Is the Flamethrower a damage-oriented kit? Compared to the Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit? No, I don’t think so. I’d say it’s fairly middle-tier in its damage, like the Tool Kit, focused more on defensive play.

So I think you’ve already missed the mark thinking anyone speccing toward the Flamethrower isn’t seeking a more balanced build. Which the Flamethrower has. Which you’ve conveniently chosen not to acknowledge what I previously stated.

And Juggernaut is not a “damage-oriented trait.” It adds damage, yes. But historically it has always been more defensive-minded, least of all in its original form.

Oh, and it’s Phineas. Either way, tone it down a notch, brohan. Your insecurity is showing.

Manticore Five.9867:

Meaning, for example, that deadly elixir does not take flamethrower kit from okay to strong, it takes flamethrower kit from weak to borderline useable.

Those traits are not implemented as bonuses, they are implemented as requirements in order to use the kit without being heavily nerfed.

As others have already said, Engineer is the class that pays cash for its “versatility” and even then doesn’t get its money’s worth.

“Borderline usable?” Why? Because I don’t do the most damage in the group? Because an Elementalist does more than me? A properly geared, tanky FT/EG Engineer withstands far more damage than a damage-spec Elementalist does, so there’s always going to be that trade-off.

I’ve never impeded my group completing a dungeon because I’m not doing “enough” damage. I have, however, been impeded completing a dungeon because DPS classes like Elementalists get killed while I’m still standing. And instead of dealing damage, curing conditions, or controlling crowds, I’m crouched over their body reviving them.

People can sit here and continue to complain about how we stack up compared to other classes. Honestly, this kind of talk only exists on message boards. I’ve never been excluded from playing in a pick-up group in a dungeon, and I’ve never felt like I was a negative influence on my party.

Quite the contrary, I think an Engineer brings plenty to a group. Having leveled other classes, there’s things I always miss out on by not playing on my Engineer.

Damage isn’t everything.

Manticore Five.9867:

You’d have a point except your definition of “proficient” seems to need work.

Elaborate.

Go with Sigil of Strength since with 30 points in Firearms you’ll have pretty good critical hit chance. If you’re like most FT/EG builds and you’ve got Emerald with Knight’s/Berserker’s, all the better.

If there’s an internal cooldown, I don’t notice it.

Days.3572:

The problem with GW2 and the hybrid class is the trait system. It’s just impossible to effectively trait the engineer to be a hybrid. The whole point of the trait system is to specialize your abilities. So you trait your engineer to support one of your kits effectively, and it feels like you are just wasting time using other kit’s abilities.

How do you figure?

30 points in Explosives allows you to be proficient with the Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit.

30 points in Firearms allows you to be proficient with the Flamethrower.

30 points in Inventions allows you to be proficient with turrets.

30 points in Alchemy allows you to be proficient with elixirs and the Elixir Gun.

30 points in Tools allows you to be proficient with the Tool Kit and gadgets.

You have 70 points, which is more than enough to fill out at least two (or even 3 with a 30/20/20 split) making yourself efficient at using all of your kits.

i.e., If I went 30/0/0/30/10 I’d be proficient with the Bomb/Grenade Kit, Elixir Gun, and my choice of elixir. Not complicated.

I think it has less to do with the “trouble” of targeting grenades so much as that being forced to ground-target makes using the kit incredibly tedious on lengthier fights.