Guild Wars 2

Gideoknight.4736:

Why would you say that power builds are better? Please elaborate

Because the numbers support such assumptions.

Stacking Critical Damage with Berserker gear, your #2 skill Flame Blast will hit like a truck. It’s like a Grenade Kit’s Grenade Barrage every 4.5 seconds.

Using the Flamethrower as a Condition Damage kit is viable in PvP, but that’s only because it works well in conjunction with P/P Condition specs by stacking Might with Juggernaut and then quickly swapping for Poison Dart Volley, Static Shot, and Blowtorch.

The Flamethrower itself is not effective at Condition Damage; it just synergizes well with P/P builds. Coated Bullets really isn’t all that great in sPvP either, so you might as well slot Juggernaut instead if you’re going the full 30 in Firearms.

As for “building you” a Flamethrower setup, please just use the search function. There’s plenty of topics already posted on good builds in PvE, PvP, and WvW regarding the FT as both a mainstay and a support kit.

Keep in mind if you’re running with a Might-stacking build, your Pistol will hit for a lot more given you get 35 Power per stack. I would use Sigil of Strength over Battle though, because Battle takes a very long time to reach maximum potency—and requires you to use a kit on your bar.

Sigil of Strength + HGH with a P/P Condi build is actually really powerful. I can post some numbers later on but I need a cup of coffee first.

The only thing I see changing with HGH is it giving only 1 stack of Might instead of 2.

Also, guys. Static Discharge has been popular since October. If they were going to nerf it they probably would have already.

You do not have to use the Grenade Kit or HGH.

In PvE/WvW there’s three viable builds at the moment that do not use the Grenade Kit:

1. Flamethrower + Elixir Gun
2. P/P Condi (You can go without HGH but it is better with it)
3. Elixir-Infused Bomb support

Use what you feel like. If anyone tells you that the Grenade Kit is the only option we have, they’re 100% wrong.

The Elixir Gun works great with the Flamethrower for a hybrid spec in PvE.

I don’t really much use it in sPvP. I’ll slot it in WvW for Acid Bomb from time to time, though.

Why do you not think that 20 in Tools is viable for Condition Damage spec?

I find a comfortable distance between my Engineer and where I want to throw them and then lock that in place by holding the right mouse button.

The circled targeted area doesn’t move unless I move. I generally find the Grenade Kit pretty cumbersome though, which is why I rarely use it. I use the Bomb Kit or Flamethrower for direct damage, or Pistol + Pistol for conditions instead.

It also helps to just push the button twice than click your mouse. If you want to use Poison Grenade for example, just double-tap 5.

HGH is seriously not necessary. It’s only useful for people that want to use Sigil of Earth, which IMO is really not all that special in the first place outside of PvE.

I find Sigil of Strength or Battle much more effective for stacking Might, and doesn’t require me to be tethered to drinking elixirs to support my damage output.

In sPvP, I’ll off-hand it with Force if I’m using the Tool Kit or Bomb Kit or Smoldering if going with the Flamethrower.

Last night in WvW I ran with Pistol/Shield + Med Kit + Tool Kit (or Flamethrower) with Elixir S + U.

0/30/0/20/20

Firearms: Hair Trigger, Rifled Barrels, Coated Bullets
Alchemy: Self-Regulating Defenses, Cleansing Formula
Tools: Speedy Kits, Power Wrench

Cleansing Formula + Drop Antidote was more than enough condition removal to keep me alive in most situations—and Inertial Converter in the Tools tree (15) gave me a second Bandage Self use at 25% HP just like Automated Medical Response. The difference is that it resets all of my toolbelt skills and not just my healing skill, meaning I had two projectile blocks at my disposal with Toss Elixir U on top of Static Shield and Gear Shield.

The survivability was insane, and my conditions still hurt bad because I had 30 points in Firearms with full Rabid gear. I used Sigil of Strength for the lack of HGH and Sigil of Corruption in my Shield.

I know some people swear by HGH and Elixir H, but I thought I’d offer a very workable alternative. I know Elixir U seems like a questionable addition but with the change to making it only have Smoke Screen or Wall of Reflection, it’s actually really good right now.

Sororita.3465:

Its all well and good not using the same abilities all the time but kits are only really good if you have the traits to support/buff them. So yeah, you’re not pigeon holing yourself but you are at the same time gimping your abilities. Unless its toolkit…toolkit is good with w/e.

Actually, this is very easy to do. With 10/30/0/30/0 I can use pretty much anything.

10 points in Explosives gives you Incendiary Powder when you need more burning application and Forceful Explosives when you’re using the Bomb Kit.

30 points in Firearms gives you the flexibility to properly use the Flamethrower, Pistol, and Rifle all in one tree.

30 points in Alchemy allows me to additionally beef up the Flamethrower, specialize in more defensive traits in WvW, and can additionally go elixir-spec when dual wielding pistols.

You don’t need Reinforced Shield or Power Wrench in PvE, so any time I slot those in I’m just as good with the Shield and Tool Kit. I usually go P/P in PvE anyway, especially since I have 5 different pistols in my inventory at any given time.

Their sigils: Strength, Force, Bloodlust, Earth, and Corruption. This gives me the flexibility to properly wield whatever I need in a given situation. If I’m condition spec, I’ll use Earth with Corruption.. If using the Flamethrower, I’ll use Strength with Bloodlust. If In WvW, I’ll use Strength with Corruption—or wield my Shield, which also has Corruption on it.

I additionally have two Rifles: a Mystic Rifle skin that I use for real and a Charrzooka skin I use for fun.

I carry with me two sets of armor: my Berserker set and my Rabid set. I also carry Rabid jewelry and Berserker jewelry. I additionally have a Knight/Soldier set with Emerald jewelry that’s sat in my bank for several months. I’ve been thinking about breaking it down and making a Cleric set instead, but we’ll see.

With a 10/30/0/30/0 setup, you’re pretty much level with using any build except Elixir-Infused Bombs or Grenade spam. And IMO, I’d rather use dual pistols with elixirs if I want to spread conditions. 30 Firearms gives me higher Condition Damage anyway, and allows me to spend 30 points into Alchemy and build more defensively than a Rampager-geared Grenadier will be. 30 points in Explosives is far more rigid, and isn’t even necessary for the Bomb Kit. Hell, the Bomb Kit still hits like a truck with zero points in Explosives. I just take Forceful Explosives for the larger combo fields.

Daxxter.8920:

Finally someone who understands my point… I’ts not normal I can play my guardian in orr while reading a book and building a card castle and then when I go out with my engi it’s continually close call situations.

I have a level 80 Guardian. I love playing it. It’s certainly a much easier class to play, but that simplicity is a double-edged sword. Like I illustrated with the Engineer and his shield, the versatility of the Guardian is almost nonexistent. Just look at the way Magnetic Shield compares to Shield of Absorption. They both block projectiles and are an AoE knockback, but with the Engineer I can control which effect I get. I can control when I get the projectile block and when I get the AoE knockback; Shield of Absorption is far more limiting, and doesn’t allow me that type of control. It’s not flexible. It just does it for me.

And if people want that “just do it for me” kind of thing, that’s perfectly fine. As I said, I love my Guardian. But I love the Engineer shield more—especially with Static Shield. I can use it as a mobile projectile block as I run back to a keep, and then additionally use it as a melee stun. And then I can throw it and use it for another stun that dazes every single person it hits.

The Engineer has a higher skill ceiling for certain, but if you believe that it doesn’t reward creativity and maximizing that efficiency, you are simply not playing the class right. Orr, even after the buff to camp events, where they’ll spawn more Champs and Vets, should still be a walk in the park for any class.

The Engineer has a lot of flexibility in how it is played. It’s up to the player to take advantage of that. That you call Poison Dart Volley “bad design” really displays how disconnected you are with how the class is intended to be played.

Enjoy your card castle.

Daxxter.8920:

It could be good for zerg balls In wvv but this game doesn’t revolve around only that.

It’s good in PvE too. You just have to stand near your target.

The class is designed to move between melee and ranged as a mid-fielder. If you don’t like how Poison Dart Volley works re-roll to another class. But for what the Engineer is designed to do, it utilizes two playstyles on one slot—for when you need to spread conditions across a group and when you simply want to perma Poison one target.

This is the embedded versatility of the Engineer. Our skills do different things from different ranges and can be used in different ways. Our Magnetic Shield can be used as a projectile block or it can be overcharged and used as an AoE knockback.

The Guardian and Warrior shield skills do not work like this.

Daxxter.8920:

By the way, I stated the whole design of the engineer and this topic has been going on about poison dart volley….

Because it’s one of the common complaints people have about the Engineer Pistol, precisely because people use it wrong.

Many of the issues that plague our class are not design choices but the inability of players to understand how the Engineer is intended to be played. Perhaps that lack of transparency is a bit of ArenaNet’s fault, but I figured out just fine how to create a build around the Flamethrower while everyone else was saying it wasn’t worth using.

Yesterday someone seriously told me that the Engineer has no good bunker builds and isn’t designed to be specialized around front-line zerg play in WvW. My mouth was to the floor.

The Engineer suffers from a massive perspective problem. This is why people like Forestnator would rather tell you off than bother to explain. It’s gotten to the point where every day we are having the same conversation.

dinominator.9862:

Phineas Poe.3018:

If you want to hit one target, stand close.

If you want to hit multiple targets, except the one you were aiming at, stand far away.

Fixed that

I noticed that the dart volley has a conical pattern but the shots are biased toward the outer edges. The middle of the cone, where your main target usually is, often doesn’t get any coverage.

Which is why I said if you care about hitting multiple targets, stand farther away.

This isn’t a bug. It’s how the skill is designed, and works efficiently in WvW with Coated Bullets when spraying into a zerg.

Kardiamond.6952:

Even then, the proc aren’t strong enought to make it worth building around it.

I think that was their intention, but even compared to other ten point traits like Incendiary Powder, Cloaking Device, Fast-Acting Elixirs, Infused Precision, and Invigorating Speed … Kit Refinement seems way to difficult to synchronize at the moment.

Daxxter.8920:

I am sort y but if you call 900 range a mid/close skill, I call that bad design.

If you want to hit one target, stand close.

If you want to hit multiple targets, stand far away.

You don’t need DPS meters. You can just plug in the numbers.

Flame Jet is a 2.25 second channel.
Grenade has a 0.5 second recast.

Both the Grenade Kit and Flamethrower have a weapon damage value of 969, as all of our kits do.

Grenade scales to x0.3 your Power.
Flame Jet scales by x1.5 your Power.

Let’s say you have 2000 Power and 500 Condition Damage.

(969 × 2000 × 0.3)/2600 = 223 damage (669 per barrage with Grenadier)
(969 × 2000 × 1.5)/2600 = 1118 + 453 (1571 per Flame Jet)

If you’ve got Incendiary Powder and Deadly Mixture, that adds another 25%. But that’s still no where near the output you’d get from the Grenade Kit given you can get three to four tosses in the time it takes to channel one Flame Jet.

Might stacking can arguably make the difference, but that is very dependent on gear setup, traits, and whatever else. The fact of the matter is: the Grenade Kit does more damage. Even if you factored in 3000 Power for the Flamethrower, you’re still averaging only 1677 direct damage per Flame Jet over 2.25 seconds—the output of which could be matched in three grenade tosses.

The Flamethrower is a competitive DPS option and does just fine on its own, but it doesn’t outdamage the Grenade Kit. If it did, I think there’d be a problem. Why should a kit that grants 200 Toughness when wielding it do more than the Grenade Kit which doesn’t?

Oakwind.6187:

I find it rather dubious that there are still very vocal individuals who think it’s perfectly sound to have rock-paper-scissors style “counters” in a game without healers.

I’m confused. Are you suggesting that there should be no counters in this game? Because there are plenty already: Condition Damage is a counter to high Toughness, for example.

Healers really have nothing to do with it.

Oakwind.6187:

If all the abilities were a single grenade with larger area of effect and all the damage baked into one kaboom, then Retal would be sound, and in line with how it affects other AoEs in the game.

You do understand the entire advantage to running grenades is Grenadier, right? By having three grenades thrown every half-second, Shrapnel (plus three every Shrapnel Grenade) makes the Grenade Kit our best bleed-stacking weapon—if not the best in the game. Take that away and it’s no better than the Pistol or Elixir Gun. Never mind how it would additionally affect Vulnerability stacking, which is a huge role we fill in DPS groups like CoF p1.

This is, again, a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Oakwind.6187:

I’ve even tried to adapt to Retal by running with Mesmer and using Sigil of Nullification, but to no avail. It’s simply too easy to reapply, and the most annoying kitten guardians also stack might to further exacerbate the problem.

What you’re facing then is a Hammerdin with Vengeful and Boon Duration runes that can sustain Retaliation on themselves.

Symbol of Protection → Mighty Blow.

The way around this is to interrupt their rotation by not allowing them to Mighty Blow their Light field. Use Air Blast. Use Magnetic Inversion. Throw Shield. Overcharged Shot. Personal Battering Ram. Throw Mine.

We have counters to this! Oh, but wait. You don’t believe in counters, right?

Oakwind.6187:

The world is filled with people who will claim black is white and that grey is actually an illusion.

The only ones talking in absolutes here is you and others that demand Retaliation be changed because it affects you in a way you don’t like.

Why is it that Grenade Kit Engineers are at the center of every controversy regarding this class? Patch after patch, there’s just something new for you guys to complain about.

But when you say Engineer is fine, what you really mean is Engineer is overpowered.

Dimes.7281:

I don’t understand how a fully traited FT + HGH build isn’t the most popular PVE DPS build over a GK + HGH build. It provides more DD damage, stacks more might, you’re already in range to use Blowtorch, and you never have to waste any DPS by taking the time to aim every ability.

Well, the Grenade Kit does more damage than the Flamethrower.

Flame Blast is better at raw power than anything the Grenade Kit has, but spamming Grenade does way more damage than Flame Jet does.

galandor.1059:

Unfortunately, there is still nothing I can give up to gain it, giving up speed is not a question, and HGH is the center of the build. Were not talking about a couple of stacks of might with that, were talking about an extra 12-15 stacks I can sustain, to hold me at 25.

Well, running Might Duration runes closes the gap significantly, especially if you use Sigil of Strength; I can sustain 18 stacks of Might and use my final trait for improving defense like Cleansing Formula or Protection Injection. Sometimes both.

There is more than one way to skin a cat of course, so if you find a method you like by all means continue using it.

Thieves are also a class that specialize in single-target DPS (i.e., ganking).

Of course Retaliation is not really an issue for them. You’re really distracting this conversation from the real issue here, which is that you totally misunderstand how the Engineer class is played. No bunker builds? Inability to be at the front-line? Pry Bar doing “moderate” damage?

And if you think I’m here to “defend” the Guardian you really don’t know who you’re talking to. I’ve made maybe three posts between Guru and the official forums in Guardian-specific folders. Compare that to my track record regarding the Engineer.

Dimes.7281:

I don’t know how you use bombkit in PvP to do damage. You can’t even aim it, you just randomly drop bombs in an area and hope people walk into them. Try fighting a ranged class with bombkit.

Well, if you go with Forceful Explosives, which is really the only trait you need in PvP with the Bomb Kit, your bombs will pretty much hit anybody that’s standing on the point. This is why people say the Flamethrower is not an effective “pressure” kit because Flame Blast does good damage but doesn’t really “punish” people for trying to capture a node—something the Bomb Kit definitely does.

Slamz.5376:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I like how you didn’t say one word about the Tool Kit.

I like how you didn’t either.

I did, actually.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Slamz.5376:

Even Phineas’ suggestion of “use different attacks” is pretty laughable because engineers don’t have any particularly slow-speed, high-damage attacks, such as warriors, guardians and thieves can access.

Uh, wow. Really? The Tool Kit says hi.

Slamz.5376:

Only the 3rd chain hit actually hits hard. The first two hits of the chain are only a hair better than the hip shot. I hope you plan on fighting NPCs because most players will find ways to interrupt your chain attacks.

I’m confused. When was this about out-damaging Thieves? I thought the issue was Retaliation and that you think the Engineer has no hard-hitting attacks even though Flame Blast, Thwack, and Pry Bar are exactly that. How many do we have to have?

Slamz.5376:

And it’s melee range, which means it has the same fundamental problem as the bomb kit: you are taking a class not known for its awesome bunker builds

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Full stop. What?

The Engineer is not known for awesome bunker builds? Says who?

Slamz.5376:

Engineers CAN show some survivability but front line melee with the tool kit is not our specialty and hardly a good answer to retaliation.

Three of our five kits are melee range or close to it. The Rifle and Pistol both work most effectively at close range. Half of our gadgets are used from point-blank range.

Not sure what class you’ve been playing, but in my experience the Engineer spends plenty of time at the front line and the Tool Kit is certainly a specialization one can take at the moment—and is a good answer to Retaliation and all classes in the game with its 5-stack of Confusion with 3-second immunity.

It’s easily the most powerful kit we have in WvW at the moment. You’re foolish not to use it.

aydenunited.5729:

Because it leaves my slot open in that trait line for Swift on crit to match my Vigor on Swift trait in Alchemy.

And I run a pretty tough build, that 200 Toughness doesn’t matter when I ony use FT to swap, do a move or to, then swap back.

Infused Precision + Invigorating Speed is a good combo, agreed.

Not sure how running Juggernaut affects that, though?

aydenunited.5729:

Another question for you conditions/might/FT guys…

My current build uses HGH, because I don’t like Juggernaut… now I typically get around 10 stacks of might that I maintain during the fight, and 1v1 I don’t have a problem with any other profession, and in tPvP, I still seem to do pretty well, especially taking their bunker off their home point solo.

Why are FT people trying to stack so high? It seems enough just to get some incidental stacks from procs on Sigils and using elixirs you would use anyway. I get why we do in the GK, but FT it doesn’t seem as necessary.

Well Juggernaut doesn’t just stack Might. It also gives 200 Toughness.

As for why stack Might—why not?

Slamz.5376:

You can’t list an attack with a 30 second timer, whose main feature is not damage but blowback, and expect us to take you very seriously. Although flamethrower and grenade kit suffer most, the engineer as a whole does less damage per hit than most other classes.

Rifle hip shot: base 251 damage
Warrior hammer: 333/333/444 damage chain
Guardian hammer: 296/333/370 damage chain
Dagger/dagger thief spamming heartseeker: 336-672 base damage as long as init holds out
Thief sword: 269/269/437 damage chain

These are the regular hits these classes can do non-stop and it makes them better able to counter retaliation than engineers — the hammer hits slower but it hits harder, which is what you want (even the thief 1H sword hits harder than our rifle). Plus the fact that engineers can’t swap weapons means you are effectively saying that we should all be pigeonholed into 1 weapon, just because of retaliation.

The bomb kit, damage-per-hit, is one of the best options but I think we all know the limits of the bomb kit, particularly when we’re talking about WvW where running around the enemy horde dropping bombs is a good way to find out where the nearest respawn point is.

You really don’t have a leg to stand on when talking about the impact of retaliation on engineers. The numbers don’t support your argument.

I like how you didn’t say one word about the Tool Kit.

Ostricheggs.3742:

I’m pretty sure no one believes that the answer to counter a zerg with retaliation is to run into the middle of the zerg with full zerkers and drop a big ol’ bomb.

Please do not misrepresent me.

I listed Big Ol’ Bomb as an example of a high-damage attack that Slamz claimed we do not have, not as a one-and-done solution to Retaliation.

Fact is, this is not a “class” issue. This is a “Flamethrower and Grenade Kit” issue. I am not telling anyone to run something else. I’m, actually, not telling anybody to do anything because I don’t see the problem.

I am saying that if you don’t like managing Retaliation in WvW, there are other options. I use the Flamethrower anyway and I do not see what the reason for all the QQing is.

Linking a couple screenshots from sPvP showing Retaliation is the number one thing you died to is not convincing that something needs to change. I’m not rank 40 in sPvP but I’ve played it enough (rank 10) to know that I can comfortably handle just about every class in a 1v1 situation. Something has to be able to kill us—effectively. That’s what defines class balance.

If you can’t tolerate this, then use the Rifle or Tool Kit.

Galandor, an FT Engineer can sustain burns on a target with Incendiary Powder. The reason nakoda says it always helps is because Flame Jet gets a flat 10% buff in damage so long as the target is burning.

+10% damage to your Flame Jet is worth a lot more than a couple more stacks of Might

Zoey Hellry.7298:

How would a FT build get 18 stacks of might without HGH. I can see a constant 9 to 13 but 18 I just can’t see.

Juggernaut gives base 5 stacks of Might over 15 seconds. That’s 1 for every 3. With +30% Boon Duration from 30 points in Alchemy and 2 Hoelbrak + 2 Fire + 2 Strength runes giving +60% Might Duration, you’ll have +90% Might Duration. Juggernaut will give 9.5 stacks of Might.

Sigil of Strength on-crit procs 1 stack of Might that each last 10 seconds. With a 2-second internal cooldown that means you’re getting, at most, 5 stacks of Might. But with +90% Might Duration your stacks of Might last 19 seconds. That means that Sigil of Strength can now stack, with its 2-second internal cooldown, an additional 9.5 stacks of Might.

1. 9 stacks of Might from Juggernaut
2. 9 stacks of Might from Strength
3. ???
4. Profit!

Even if you’re not running H/F/S runes and opting for Altruism, you will self-stack 15 Might with no issue. With the change to Kit Refinement and the loss of our “second” Super Elixir, the Healing Turret is substantially more appealing now in group PvE situations given it has the condition cleanse your group may need/want. As such, 6/6 Altruism is less appealing and I’ve since gone the H/F/S route.

Acid Bomb also works great as a Blast finisher to proc Area Heals from your Healing Turret.

Zoey Hellry.7298:

I guess the real question is for the OP is, what trait lines make the flame thrower the most viable.

There are two traits that boost the Flamethrower’s DPS: Deadly Mixture and Juggernaut. Incendiary Powder is additionally useful because Flame Jet was buffed in February to receive a 10% damage boost when your target is burning.

Pre-patch, when Kit Refinement was still useful, 10/30/0/20/10 was the best method given the change to Flame Jet. Before that, 0/30/0/25/15 was the best given Energy Conversion Matrix’s +1% damage per every boon applied > 5% critical damage from Tools.

There’s really only one method to getting the most out of the Flamethrower these days, and that’s 10/30/0/30/0. If you have another alternative, I’m all ears. I always look for variants that are viable.

If you want to go for Condition Damage and save some gold, I recommend Rabid gear. A full set with jewelry can be purchased with Karma in Orr from different vendors.

Zoey Hellry.7298:

I just don’t get why people are saying don’t use HGH with the FT. I run 10/30/0/30/0 HGH/PP/FT u fill in the numerals blanks. What is wrong with this.

Because it’s unnecessary. Juggernaut and Sigil of Strength do enough already. And in any group situation you’re not going to be the only one stacking Might.

What’s the point of rolling with 25 Might when you can roll with 18 instead and get to 25 constantly anyway and instead pick a trait that actually helps you in more significant ways like Protection Injection or Cleansing Formula?

The loss of Kit Refinement definitely affects group support without the second Super Elixir, but moving those 10 points elsewhere in either Alchemy or Explosives—or some mix of the two—will actually boost the output of your Flamethrower tremendously because of Energy Conversion Matrix and Incendiary Powder.

People complaining that the Flamethrower is not viable are (1) people using it wrong or (2) people who used it only when Flame Blast was bugged and don’t really know what they’re talking about in the first place.

We still get a Light field of 10-second duration every 16 seconds. It’s not that bad.

Ashenpelt.5318:

I didn’t really go too far into clerics because I asked before about healing power on engie and got so much negative feedback that I decided to scrap the idea.

Eff. That. Noise.

A lot of the people around here have absolutely no clue what they’re talking about. Sometimes you really just have to try things out yourself.

I know exotic/ascended gear is very expensive or hard to get, and sPvP trinkets are not 1:1 in stat distribution to PvE, but it sometimes fighting Mist Golems is a good way to test the effectiveness of a build, never mind just doing some simple math. All the skill coefficients for Power, Condition Damage, and Healing Power are well documented and known at this point.

Kimbald.2697:

And versatile means ‘some support, decent survivability, decent but not strongest dps, etc…’

This is precisely what the FT/EG build is. Try it some time.

Deified.7520:

It has a little longer range than a toolkit, but toolkit does more damage and has more survivability (shield, crowbar, toolbelt, etc). The FT can also be said to do condition damage, but bomb kits and grenade kits just dominate this aspect of the damage in every way.

Bomb Kit requires you to literally stand right on top of your enemy, so it makes sense why it does the most damage. It’s also not viable at all in a lot of PvE content and is used more for Elixir-Infused Bombs than actual damage.

The Grenade Kit excels at bleed stacking and attacking from range, but it doesn’t have the survivability the Flamethrower does. The Tool Kit comparatively is tankier and Pry Bar and Thwack both do a lot of damage. But they both only hit one target compared to Flame Blast being able to hit 5.

The Flamethrower is suited for AoE when you want to hit multiple targets with Flame Jet and Flame Blast while still having ample control with Air Blast and Smoke Vent’s PBAoE Blind. The Tool Kit is an exceptionally powerful melee weapon, but it is a gap closer designed to keep people within range between Magnet and Box of Nails—not push them away.

I love using the FT in all areas of the game. P/S + FT = Exceptional point defense in sPvP. The Tool Kit is tankier, but sometimes it’s best just to be able to get people out of a point. Between Magnetic Shield and Air Blast I’ve been able to neutralize a point even in 1v3 situations. The Tool Kit can’t do that. You’ll just stand there, smack one of them with Confusion, mitigate damage for a few seconds, and die. You’ll probably die anyway with the FT, but at least you’ll have neutralized a point or taken it for your team in the process.

Big Ol’ Bomb with the Bomb Kit is good too, but it’s so obviously telegraphed.

I do often use the build being discussed in this thread. As I wrote on the first page:

Phineas Poe.3018:

P/P + Tool Kit + elixirs. 6/6 Rabid with Undead runes.

I’ll swap out Flamethrower for Tool Kit if I want badges like candy and rolling through a zerg.

I do not use Giver’s or Lyssa/Mad King/whatever the last one was. I do not use HGH. I do not use the Grenade Kit.

I run 10/30/0/30/0. Elixir B + Med Kit for Swiftness. Tool Kit for small skirmishes, Flamethrower for badge collecting. I’ve actually begun integrating the Bomb Kit into my rotation too, though my third utility slot is always Elixir S.

I actively swap in and out traits depending on what is needed. The nice thing about a 10/30/0/30/0 setup is that I can modify my build entirely around the Flamethrower with Juggernaut, Incendiary Powder, and Deadly Mixture or I can modify my build entirely around P/P with Blood Injection, Hair Trigger, Coated Bullets, and Rifled Barrels.

Versatility still exists with the Engineer as it always has. You just have to experiment.

Isslair.4908:

We can all thank the “Engi is fine” crowd for making engi even worse.

How do you figure?

I don’t know why people insist that HGH is a requirement.

I like using my elixirs when I need them, not when I need Might. Lately I’ve preferred just wielding Sigil of Strength if I need Might.

Ashenpelt.5318:

But healing power hardly works on Engie.

Not sure I agree. Let’s say you have full Cleric gear.

Armor = 315 Healing Power
Jewelry = 461 Healing Power
Weapons = 180 Healing Power

That’s 956 total Healing Power added. The Healing Turret is modified by 100% of your Healing Power. So that’s 956 being directly added to your Turret. Never mind a Blast finisher in the Water field grants 1320 health modified by 20% of your HP—which in your case would be 191—for a total of 1511.

That means every time you drop your Healing Turret and detonate it, at level 80, you’re healing yourself for 7387, healing your allies for 1511, and providing 8 seconds Regeneration. On a 20-second ish cooldown. Which can similarly be overcharged and detonated, cleansing everyone’s conditions and healing everybody for another 1493 on top of the 1511 you’re already giving them.

On top of the 250+ health you’re giving them every second with Elixir-Infused Bombs, stacking Healing Power definitely “works” for the Engineer. It’s one of the most popular fractal builds we have.

Now I understand you’re looking for more tanky condition damage than support, but I just wanted to address this misconception that Cleric gear is a waste for Engineers. It works best on Guardians because their stuff is mostly raw healing, especially with an AHEM-type build, but we do plenty of raw healing ourselves, too.

I don’t see why Pry Bar should get a nerf when Concussion Bomb does precisely the same thing with a circular AoE.

If anything, they’ll just tone down how good Confusion is in WvW, which is more what I think will happen, just as they have dealt with Quickness. It’s easier to make these kinds of balancing changes across the board than tweak individual skills.

Slamz.5376:

Even Phineas’ suggestion of “use different attacks” is pretty laughable because engineers don’t have any particularly slow-speed, high-damage attacks, such as warriors, guardians and thieves can access.

Uh, wow. Really? The Tool Kit says hi.

But even if you didn’t want to use it:

Incendiary Ammo
Flame Blast
Blowtorch
Blunderbuss
Jump Shot
Overcharged Shot
Big Ol’ Bomb

All great non-spam, high damage options. Never mind the fact that Condition Damage doesn’t proc Retaliation, and we are one of the best condition spreaders in the game.

I’m still 100% convinced that this is a L2P problem.

Kimbald, I don’t see how we could have our 10 hits count as 1-2 attacks over 5 ticks each to reduce the effect of Retaliation without similarly affecting the effect of Sigil of Strength.

Having Flame Jet strike 4-5 times a second is precisely why Might-stacking with the Flamethrower is so effective. We could arguably go with Sigil of Battle instead, but I’ve always found it relatively cumbersome and limiting to have to “time” my kit swaps on an invisible timer different from my cooldowns.

Bomb Kit is king while leveling.

It has the lowest trait dependency of all our kits (only 10 in Explosives), the #1 auto-attack skill hits like a truck, and it applies a couple good combo fields that can bolster your DPS or be used as defensive options.

Grenade Kit and Flamethrower don’t get good until level 60 when you can unlock Grenadier and Juggernaut. Until then, and arguably even still, the Bomb Kit is better for soloing/leveling.

If you don’t feel like using it though, try out Static Discharge with the Rifle. Turrets are also relatively good for the first 20-30 levels, but they drop off in effectiveness as you get into higher level areas because they stop scaling well.

Manuhell.2759:

It isn’t like we use EG for damage purposes anyway.

You really should integrate Acid Bomb into your rotation if you have the Elixir Gun on your bar.

Lag is the sole reason I’m in the Borderland maps 90% of the time.

That and there’s enough randoms that queue up for EB only that when we attack a Borderland as a guild, we’re often the only people there.

How many threads on Retaliation with the Flamethrower do we need?

The reduction of its high attack speed has been thrown around before, but I think that’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Its high attack speed has so many advantages, especially in regard to on-crit effects and on-crit sigils. It’s the one thing that actually makes the Flamethrower a competitive option.

Take that away, or change the way it “ticks” through only a select number of hits, and you might as well just shelve the kit entirely as nothing but an an additional knockback/interrupt or blind on your bar.

ManCaptain.3154:

Boon removal is very sparse in contrast.

I think this is one of the reasons why the idea of “boon hate” has been thrown around.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I think a lot of people have been trying to use it as a purely power kit when it seems much more suited for conditions.

I like using the Flamethrower as a condition spreader in PvP and WvW, but it scales best with Power over the course of a long fight in PvE. Flame Blast gets really good when you stack Critical Damage, and does more damage overall than if you spec for bleeds with the Flamethrower. Keep in mind that even with its high attack rate you’re never going to get more than 8-9 bleed stacks even with Sigil of Earth.

And seeing Flame Blast roll through a target for 3K and then explode for another 5K is just more fun.

Slamz.5376:

Going to protect the point with harsh language? Get them off of the door by wishing they would go away?

Or just use something that doesn’t proc Retaliation as badly as the Flamethrower or Grenade Kit does? Use your Rifle or Pistol. Use Magnetic Shield and push them out of the point. Use Air Blast. Use Smoke Vent.

Use your head.