Guild Wars 2

Kalan.9705:

I find it bizarre how some folks just blindly support A-net on everything no matter what.

I don’t blindly support ArenaNet on everything.

I dislike that they changed Kit Refinement. A lot.
I dislike that they nerfed Incendiary Powder.
I dislike that ANet’s idea of “buffing” the Flamethrower was adding to its already ridiculous trait dependency.
I dislike that ANet believes that spending 75 gold in Black Lion Keys and not getting a Fused Weapon Ticket is even remotely acceptable.
I dislike that ANet thinks that Thief needed a buff in sPvP.
I especially dislike that ANet will put out a new build to fix Thief bugs off the cuff but Symbol of Swiftness and Scope are still effing buggy.

So yeah, in the grand scheme of things—excuse me if I don’t really see the issue in not having your Ghetto Shelter anymore. It’s still a stunbreaker. It’s still 3 seconds of invulnerability. It still gives Stability. It still gives Stealth. It still cures conditions. It still gives Might.

It’s still worth using.

Rezzet.3614:

you must be fighting disabled or AFK people if you can down them with nades in face to face combat.

Maybe. But the fact remains: Grenadier is a viable trait selection in WvW, PvP, and PvE. Given the popularity of the Grenade Kit across all realms of the game I can’t imagine anyone would ever bother trying to argue otherwise.

Rezzet.3614:

now bombs sure are nice on a bunker build but someone who knows what a bomb is and Kites will simply shrug away your build and obliterate you with condition damage wich ignores armor,

If someone is “kiting” me in sPvP that means they’re not on the control point. Meaning I’m contesting/capturing/holding it. As a bunker, I’ve succeeded in my job.

I also think you considerably underrate the survivability of a bunker Engineer. We have some of the best condition cleansing in the game, second only to maybe D/D Elementalists. We even have a passive trait that will randomly convert conditions to boons at an 8% clip.

Assassin.7890:

So you are using Rabid, Berserker and Soldier armor set. Which one with which build?
I have 94 laures so far, and I dont even know what to buy with them, because I am not sure, wheter to push DMG, Crt or survivability with vit, tough.

I suffered from the same issue, actually. So I went with Syzygy. It’s the all-stat utility amulet. They just cost too many laurels to buy multiple ones for a single class—especially if it’s not the only one you leveled to 80.

And maybe I wasn’t clear enough the first time, but my armor + jewelry setup is as follows:

PvE P/P HGH = Rabid + Rabid
PvE FT/EG = Berserker/Soldier + Berserker

WvW P/P + TK = Soldier + Rabid

Some people insist that Carrion is better than Rabid in WvW, but I prefer the Precision over Vitality. With Soldier + 30 points in Alchemy, you’ll have more than enough HP. It’s all about personal preference though. And even after the Confusion nerf, Condition Damage is still the way to go in WvW.

And I prefer Soldier over Rabid armor because the Tool Kit and Pistol still do pretty good damage when scaled for Power. Slot in the Flamethrower for zergs, but keep Coated Bullets.

Where you can get this stuff:

Berserker armor is crafted/bought/farmed CoF.
Berserker jewelry is crafted/bought (Ruby).
Soldier and Rabid armor in Orr for 42,000 karma each.
Rabid rings/accessories/spineguard in Orr for 42,000 karma each.

Rezzet.3614:

our only viable build so far is x/30/x/30/x x= optional

Are you suggesting that Grenadier is not a viable build? Or that Elixir-Infused Bombs is not a viable bunker spec in PvP?

Manuhell.2759:

But you basically have to make an entire build out of it. Your example used all the trait slots that we have got and two out of three utility slots. Endure pain has quite a better degree of versatility, whatever build you’re using.

And you’re suggesting that Elementalists abusing Mist Form aren’t making an entire build out of that? Put 30 points in both Fire and Air and tell me that this is still an issue.

To get the performance out of Endure Pain like you guys suggest, you have to just as significantly trait and build around it. Without Stability, Endure Pain is not an “escape option” or a “gap creator.” It’s a workaround Frenzy’s 25% increase in damage taken.

I’ve asked this question already and no one answered it: Do any of you actually have any experience playing a Warrior?

1. I run a 10/30/0/30/0 setup to great success. Wield Flamethrower when group needs Power. Wield P/P when group needs Condition Damage. I just alternate trait selection to bolster whatever I’m using. It’s very flexible.

When wielding FT:

Explosives: Incendiary Powder
Firearms: Precise Sights, Fireforged Trigger, Juggernaut
Alchemy: Fast-Acting Elixirs, Deadly Mixture, Cleansing Formula

When using Pistol/Pistol:

Explosives: Incendiary Powder
Firearms: Hair Trigger, Napalm Specialist, Coated Bullets
Alchemy: Fast-Acting Elixirs, Potent Elixirs/Cleansing Formula, HGH

2. To do this I have to be flexible. I carry with me at all times a Rabid, Soldier, and Berserker armor set. I have both a Rabid and Berserker jewelry set. And I have the weapons as well (5 Pistols, 2 Rifles, 2 Shields).

3. Confusion is still plenty viable. It’s just not faceroll good in WvW when you Pry Bar + Static Shot. It was left unchanged in PvP/PvE.

4. I use this setup in PvE, PvP, and WvW. In WvW I usually slot in my Soldier armor with Pistol/Shield with Tool Kit with Rabid jewelry.

I really like the way it looks and it fits into the Engineer perfectly, but 150 gold is a lot.

I’ll probably just sell it if I get it.

Manuhell.2759:

And still you’re basing your assumption on people using all those traits and utilities.

I don’t see how that’s unfair.

You’re all basing your assumptions that an Elementalist is going to attune Water and trait for Evasive Arcana. You all assume that a Warrior is going to have Dolyak Signet/Balanced Stance on their bar for Stability.

You guys say X class has this, this, this, and this … but they don’t get any of that passively. They have to trait/gear/slot it. I’m suggesting we have very much the same options.

Yukabacera.2307:

3 stacks of might pales to the vigor/regen an ele gets popping mist form in terms of surviving and recovering from burst, and throw elixir S is a coin flip on whether it can let you escape or not, while also having its own cast time long enough to take 1-2 more hits since you can’t make any distance anymore without the CC all of our kits have at least one of (cripples with tool kit, chill with grenades, blind/immobilize/cripple with bombs, backwards leap with elixir gun, knockback with flamethrower.

You’re leapfrogging a rebuttal by bringing in “issues” outside of this discussion.

Engineer suffers from a lack of gap creators unless you wield kits—yes. Thus an Elixir-spec Engineer is not going to have very many—yes. But I’m not exactly sure how any of that has to do with the Elixir S nerf. This has always been the case, yet Elixir-spec Engineer was considered one of the most powerful tPvP builds across all classes before this patch—and even still.

And Engineers already have access to permanent Regeneration and Vigor with the right trait and skill selection. They also have access to consistent, passive Protection application through traits. Comparing Engineer to Elementalist is a crapshoot, because you’re inevitably going to cherrypick something that doesn’t translate easily to other classes.

Endure Pain =/= Elixir S =/= Mist Form

They nerfed both Elixir S and Mist Form because, like I said here or in another thread, they fall under the same skill category: a stunbreaker that provides invulnerability/immunity to CC. As such, ANet believes that these skills should limit what you can do while immune/invulnerable.

Elementalists apparently have a workaround, and we don’t. I can see how that is an issue to some people, but that doesn’t automatically mean that we should be directly comparing how certain skills work for some classes while ignoring the entire situation or its alternatives, or suggesting that because Elementalists get something that we should too. We already have perma Swiftness and Vigor in combat. We already have two traits on separate cooldowns that grant Protection. We already have 12 seconds of immunity every 48 slotting the Tool Kit and Elixir S on your bar.

What the eff more do you want?

Engineers had no trouble surviving before this patch, and they haven’t after it.

Yukabacera.2307:

Endure Pain works as a stun breaker because you can recover and use skills to create distance,

I know on the Engineer forum every problem we have is magnified by a thousand while every little good thing other classes have is treated like the greatest thing on Earth, but Endure Pain does not “work as a stunbreaker” as well as you think it does.

Most Warriors use it in conjunction with Frenzy to burst down targets—both in PvE and PvP. It is not used as a gap creator. I really have to ask: do you actually play a Warrior? A Warrior who tries to run away from a fight is a dead Warrior, because like Guardian they will fail 9 times out of 10 when the battle goes outside melee range, and Warriors do not have the plethora of projectile reflects that Guardian does.

Manuhell.2759:

We’ve been nerfed a lot cause we can be good in pvp (thanks to certain particular builds), all the while ignoring how we are bad in pve.

lolwut?

Engineer is not a bad class in PvE. And none of the big nerfs in this patch (Elixir S, Confusion, Incendiary Powder) affect our viability in group content.

If anything, we’ve gotten better this month in PvE thanks to Elixir U buff and Healing Turret.

Manuhell.2759:

And how exactly can you achieve a balance by nerfing to the ground the class least played (or one of the least played anyway) while buffing more or less constantly the others?

Engineers are definitely not the least played class in PvP, and haven’t been for a long time. 100nades drew in a bunch of players, as has the popularity of the HGH Grenadier build.

And Warriors needed this buff. Are you joking? Who cares how many people play it? Now that the patch is out this experiment is irrelevant, but pre-May you should have made a point to keep track how many Warriors actually played in PvP, and how many of them actually managed to kill you.

They are one of the best PvE classes in the game, but they’re easily the worst PvP class out there. By a lot. I literally had zero reason to ever take my Warrior into the Mists over my Guardian or Engineer.

Like all the players whining about Endure Pain in the other thread, it’s fascinating how ridiculous some players’ perspectives of other classes are. Actually try playing a Warrior in PvP before you say what is or is not needed for them.

YourOwnFear.2743:

You guys are silly if you think elixir S and mist form are equal. I just tested and I can pop mist form and aoe heal for 4.5k (attune water, dodge roll, regen tics, soothing mist tics) while aoe clearing 3 conditions. Can an engi do that?

I think the crucial element to this is that you’re attuning to Water. Make it to where Mist Form cannot swap Attunements and this problem is solved.

But just for the sake of answering your question: an Engineer can clear two conditions with Toss/Elixir S while additionally granting 3 stacks of Might. Toss Elixir S also works as a Stability/Stealth buff.

It’s not a Heal but Mist Form also has a much longer cooldown.

YourOwnFear.2743:

Some of you people just white knight for the sake of it. Maybe you think it makes you look good or smarter but I just sit here and laugh at you. The fact of the matter is the engineer isn’t in a great place.

It’s not a fact. It’s your opinion.

In what little sPvP I play, I faceroll most classes with my Elixir-spec Conditioneer build. I’m not ranked. I rarely play tPvP. So if you want to dismiss this comment, go for it. But I come away with my own experiences, and I still find that Elixir S is an amazing skill to preemptively mitigate burst damage. Toss Elixir S also still gives 4 seconds of Stealth or 8 seconds of Stability. Given that it’s arguably the only way to get Stability out of the Engineer at this point, hard to figure out how slotting it on your bar is “useless.”

That’s not me being a “White Knight.” I gain nothing by refuting melodrama on a forum, except perhaps more wrinkles on my brow.

CriSPeH.8512:

How very self-righteous of you to be amazed at everyone who is not as smart as your are. You must be some kind of special genius that you are one of the few that see the true big picture of what Anets intentions are.

See the true big picture? They said it in the State of the Game how and why it was being nerfed. Being astute is a quality of intelligence, but construing myself as “some kind of special genius” was hardly my intention.

I am amazed by the melodrama over the nerf. It still is a stunbreaker with a 3-second immunity. Calling that useless is an overreaction, and I don’t see how it could be seen otherwise. Elixir S wasn’t solely used as a Ghetto-rigged Engineer version of Shelter.

CriSPeH.8512:

Everyone else must just be a bunch of idiots crying for no reason because they just haven’t figured out what you already know.

Clearly.

That’s not even remotely close to what I said.

CriSPeH.8512:

So a fully traited Elixir S was OP???

Did I say that? I don’t believe I did. What I’m saying is that Elixir S when traited is one of the best stunbreakers in the game despite this nerf. And yes: I am identifying that this is a nerf unlike your insinuation:

CriSPeH.8512:

The only thing worse about ppl complaining about nerfs are ppl claiming the nerfs aren’t nerfs at all and everyone complaining are crying babies.

Except some people, the OP especially, kind of are being a bunch of crying babies about it.

CriSPeH.8512:

Does that mean Elixir R is OP, its an Elixir that can cure a condition, refill endurance, break stun and give might, along with a thrown Elixir that can cure a condition, give might and create a field that rez’s and cures more conditions?
Elixir U?
Are all of our skills OP because we have traits for them.

This thread isn’t about Elixir R. This thread isn’t about Elixir U (which was actually buffed in this patch). This thread is about Elixir S and people claiming it is useless. I never suggested that HGH/Cleansing Formula are overpowered. Not sure where you even came up with this response.

CriSPeH.8512:

Show me another downed ability that even half matches the utility of Vapor Form and being able to run into doors or off cliffs or outside of a capture point forcing the player to leave to finish you, Then maybe we can talk

This thread isn’t about downed skills either. And if it was, I’d be right there with you saying that ours need work. But that’s not what this thread is about.

Kalan.9705:

the goal should not be to make everything the engineer has worse than another classes equivalent.

But the goal is to beat up on Warriors who have it way worse than Engineers do in PvP/WvW right now.

Tyaen.5148:

I logged him on and he had better survivability as an ungeared upleveled character than my fully tweaked Engineer.

Having a “fully tweaked” Engineer and Guardian, I have to question this.

Guardian is certainly a very powerful class in damage mitigation with all its projectile reflects, Aegis/Prot spam, and healing skills. Putting 30 points each into Honor and Valor makes you very difficult to kill when played right.

But I think much the same can be said of Engineers, and I find it hard to believe that anybody with 30 points in Alchemy should have any issues surviving even with the change to Elixir S, especially when they’re using the traited Tool Kit too. Having 12 seconds of immunity every 48 seconds is significantly powerful.

Kimbald.2697:

And on topic: yes, I consider it a very bad design if engineers can’t survive without putting 20 points in Alchemy.

I think there’s plenty to argue with that statement. Engineers can definitely survive without Cleansing Formula. I just don’t see why someone would want to go without it.

It’d be like using the Flamethrower without grabbing Deadly Mixture. Certain traits are no-brainers. If you use a lot of elixirs, you should grab Cleansing Formula.

Kimbald.2697:

Not a single one of my posts was the sort of QQ you accuse it to be.

I was speaking generally at the end of my post.

This entire thread is one elaborate QQ. That is my issue. This community just cannot take a single change to the class with any semblance of dignity. Constantly a half-glass empty perspective.

But really, you have nothing to say about the point of “must have” traits? Every class has them. I fail to see the issue with that.

You guys kitten and moan that the developers don’t bother talking to you, yet you never bother to take a moment and read the tripe you write and realize that effective communication requires the effort of two parties—not one.

This forum is a cesspool, and has been since January. This thread is Exhibit A of that. Not even sure why I bother coming here anymore.

Kimbald.2697:

You argue balance a few posts up, and than you point at the very issue with engineer builds.

Cleansing Formula is a powerful trait. So was Kit Refinement.

So is Evasive Arcana and Altruistic Healing. All classes have “must-have” traits. Suggesting that this is an Engineer-only problem, or that this is even a problem in the first place confuses me. The Healing Turret buff was precisely to introduce the alternative: two conditions removed every 15 seconds. That’s certainly powerful, though like the Rifle/Net/Flame Turret buffs last month, I don’t think it goes far enough. But it is a start.

If you think that ANet fails at balancing the Engineer that’s your perspective. But this thread is about Elixir S and how apparently changing the way it works kills the build. Even though Warriors know and love Endure Pain, and Elementalists roll with Mist Form often.

Apparently because it doesn’t allow you to heal yourself anymore, it’s all of a sudden a busted skill and the class is broken. QQ more. Seriously.

Manuhell.2759:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Manuhell.2759:

Let’s see…me. Flamethrower/elixir gun user.

That’s funny. I use it all the time.

Well, have fun wasting a slot, then. I can’t see much value in “3s of delaying the unavoidable demise”, after all.

I was talking about Cleansing Formula 409, not Elixir S. That was, after all, the question:

“Who doesn’t take Cleansing Formula 409 in sPvP/WvW?”

Manuhell.2759:

Let’s see…me. Flamethrower/elixir gun user.

That’s funny. I use it all the time.

Who doesn’t take Cleansing Formula 409 in sPvP/WvW?

Serious question.

Mif.3471:

Those are due to traits, not Elixir S.

So we should judge the strength of a skill in a vacuum without considering what it can be traited to do already? That sounds like an awful way to balance a game.

Mif.3471:

Because if anyone disagrees with you they must be stupid right?
/facepalm

Where did I say that?

I think you guys are being melodramatic, that’s all.

Mif.3471:

I don’t see why it’s unreasonable. Previously we could use med kit while under the effect of Elixir S and heal for 3k.

Which is not how they intended Elixir S to work, the same as Mist Form.

With the right traits, Elixir S is a 3-second immunity on a 48-second cooldown, breaks stuns, cures a condition, gives two stacks of Might, and can additionally be thrown for another removed condition, another stack of Might, and Stealth/Stability. And you want it to heal us too? GTFO. This entire thread reeks of entitlement.

Mug/Steal is a class-defining skill. Elixir S is a utility skill. They’re not even comparable.

Show me one stunbreaker that any class has that even matches half the utility of Elixir S, and then we can talk.

Amazed that this community has devolved to bawling over balance changes that are 100% reasonable.

Mif.3471:

They could at least put a little 2-3k heal on it.

I really hope this post is a joke.

ikiturso.4026:

tool kit is not kittenin meelee weapon its meele strike!

Enlighten me: what exactly is the difference?

Engineer has no stunbreakers? Utility Goggles, Rocket Boots, Elixir U, Elixir S, and Elixir R say otherwise. Protection Injection and Protective Shield along with Toss/Elixir H offer Engineers plenty of Protection. And not only does the Engineer have a melee-based weapon in the Tool Kit, both the Rifle (Blunderbuss) and Pistol (Blowtorch) work best from close range.

If you need help staying alive in close quarters, use the Shield. It has two blocks, one of which can be overcharged into an AoE knockback.

Maiden England.3491:

Yamsandjams.3267:

You can also swap to medkit, drop the stimulant, and then switch back to your healing skill of choice if you want. This can help a lot with macro-mobility, such as roaming across a map.

You can also swap in slick shoes and use the super speed for a short burst of extra speed, and then swap them back out.

Obviously this won’t work in the middle of combat, but it’ll help you keep pace with the zergs.

Otherwise, 10 points in tools is all you need to meet your map roaming needs.

As for micro-mobility, meaning mobility during combat, we’re pretty much the worst. If it’s any consolation, guardians aren’t much better, and necros are probably just as bad as we are.

Yeah my main is a guardian and its pretty hard to catch up to a running ele/thief even with a few gap closers. Sucks that engi doesnt really have any….

I’m confused by this thread.

Engineers have multiple different traits that give enhanced movement speed: two of which allow permanent 33% movement in Swiftness both in and out of combat.

And Engi doesn’t have any gap closers? Between the Rifle and Net Turret, you have more than plenty immobilizations to slow down if not completely ensnare your target. Not to mention Magnet is arguably the best gap closer in the entire game.

hydeaut.1758:

This change both hits the Elixir and the auto-elixir trait where I could go into med-kit, which gave me heal-packs, speed, 1 condition remove, vigor if traited – no big deal, of course . . .

I don’t really see how you think a traited Elixir S having a stunbreaker, curing a condition, granting 2 stacks of Might, and giving 3-second immunity isn’t powerful enough on its own … on top of adding another stack of Might, curing another condition, and giving Stability/Stealth all in one utility slot.

This is QQ. Plain and simple.

Elixir S was changed alongside Mist Form because they do not want these skills to work like that. Not sure why people are so up in arms about this change.

The noise surrounding the Incendiary Powder nerf was a lot more than necessary. The trait is still worth taking, and the change to Elixir S is hardly a big deal.

The buffs to the Healing Turret and its toolbelt skills is significantly more huge. The Water field now lasts 5 seconds. Cleansing Burst removes 2 conditions every 15 versus a cleanse every 60. Regenerating Mist was lowered from a 60 second cooldown to a 25. Elixir U was fixed and has a longer duration.

I’m a happy camper. I think I can finally ditch the Med Kit and use the Healing Turret entirely in PvE.

Zaviel.1245:

As a condition engi who uses rifle

What?

timidobserver.7925:

Judging from your signature, you have a warrior so you can play the new FOTM.

Uh, I guess?

I’m glad that Warrior is getting buffed, especially since I’ve played maybe 3 matches on him … but not at the cost of the Engineer.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I feel for you. Nothing feels quite like your own personal niche build getting steamrolled by a poorly-thought-out rework to something that may have been overpowered when used a different way. I used to use flamethrower in my bunker build for the condition removal, but had to change after the KR nerf.

In hindsight, I don’t this Incendiary Powder nerf will be as bad as I thought.

Think about it: 4 seconds of Burning every 10 seconds. Flame Jet burns for 1 second at the end of every 2.25 second channel.

Together, that’s 8 seconds of Burning every 10 seconds. It’s not permanent by itself anymore, but the help of Blowtorch, Incendiary Ammo, Air Blast, and Napalm should be more than sufficient to sustain Burning damage on targets to take advantage of Flame Jet’s 10% damage increase.

Never mind the fact that having a Guardian in your group pretty much solves the issue entirely.

Incendiary Powder will still be worth taking, and you won’t need the Flame Turret either. I apologize for getting out of hand about it.

As for the nerf overall, I definitely have to dial back the hysteria and say that it was actually relatively well thought-out. The only kit that suffers from this is the Grenade Kit, which already has access to Chill, Poison, Blind, and Bleed.

With this change, the Bomb Kit and Flamethrower actually have a useable strength, and become more competitive DPS options in PvE. I think in the future ArenaNet should look to bring up the other kits rather than constantly bringing down the Grenade Kit, but at least on the PvE side of things … we might actually have more suitable build variety than previously seen. You may start seeing Conditioneers using the Flamethrower for its considerable Burning durations where they otherwise would have just used the Grenade Kit.

Just my final two cents on this topic. I’m going to refrain from commenting further about these changes and wait for the patch notes.

Does Rifled-Turret Barrels affect the range of its combo fields?

I just dislike that it means that to get the most out of the Flamethrower, you have to put another skill on your bar: the Flame Turret. Without it, this Incendiary Powder nerf hurts the viability of the FT badly.

Beyond the change to Kit Refinement, the FT is already tethered to 60 points between three different trees to get the most out of it.

I’m just seriously clueless why this provision was necessary, or that they totally didn’t think about this at all when deciding this change.

I think I’ll be playing my Engineer less after this patch, which is really sad. I’ve put a significant amount of work into my build.

I’m very frustrated.

Penguin.5197:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Penguin.5197:

Incendiary powder: burns for 4 secs every ten secs.

What. The. Eff.

They were calling it Incendiary explosives but I think thats what they meant.

That seriously hurts the Flamethrower for no good reason.

I really hope they plan on changing the way Flame Jet burns/does damage with this change.

Penguin.5197:

Incendiary powder: burns for 4 secs every ten secs.

What. The. Eff.

Ezeriel.9574:

but to nerf elixirgun builds in order to nerf 100nades? wtf were they thinking?

Super Elixir was definitely taken into consideration when they nerfed Kit Refinement, and they felt having two of them for a sustainable Light field 100% of the time was a tad too good for a 10-point trait. I think most Engineers around here agreed with that assessment; we just didn’t think that they were going to outright remove the added Light field entirely.

Super Elixir is still the best Light field in the entire game: it has a 10 second duration, has a 240 radius, can be targeted from up to 900 range, has BOTH an impact and regenerative heal, and can be traited to have only a 16-second cooldown.

There is no Guardian Light field that offers that same kind of utility without traiting the crap out of your Symbols/Consecrations. Kit Refinement was a no-brainer and not only buffed your Elixir Gun but additionally gave us one of the best bursts in the game at the same time while passively adding 10% Critical Damage and a -10% Toolbelt Recharge Rate.

It was a shock to the senses, but most people have gotten over the Kit Refinement nerf by now. The FT/EG build now specs into Explosives for Incendiary Powder, with a full 30 in Alchemy for Cleansing Formula. Grenade Kit Engineers now put 10 in Firearms for Precise Sights or Hair Trigger to better apply more Conditions with HGH and Grenadier. To tell you the truth, I don’t even really think about what it was like having Double Super Elixirs anymore. I kind of got over it.

Engineers are one of the top-tier PvP classes, are one of the best WvW classes, and have the versatility to fill just about any role in a party in PvE.

I am so freaking confused right now.

Cube.1758:

This here my friend, is an example of a noob engie who does not what the f—k he is talking about. go back to your cave troll.

Excuse me?

Deified.7520:

He does have a bit of a point. Since release, engineer has been the only class to get a ton of nerfs despite being the less played and often less complained. I see new threads everyday or complains everday about mesmers, guardians, or thieves and they go untouched since release.

This is such BS.

The only kit that’s gotten nerfed is the Grenade Kit, which is still really effing good, and Kit Refinement has been reworked.

Overall though, we’ve been nothing but improved since release.

The Flamethrower has been buffed. The Tool Kit has been buffed. The Elixir Gun has been buffed. Gadgets have been buffed. Turrets have been buffed.

Mif.3471:

It makes so much more sense for a melee weapon to have a skill that brings people to melee range as opposed to knocking them out of it.

Tell that to a Hammer Guardian.

Banish is the best knockback in the entire game. I would hate it if they changed it, the same with Air Blast, Magnetic Shield, Staggering Blow, Shield of Absorption, Counterattack … you get the idea.

There is no precedent that melee weapons should have pull skills versus push skills. If you need a melee weapon with a pull, use the Tool Kit with Magnet, and Box of Nails to keep them there.

I happen to like how Air Blast works and would prefer they don’t change it. It’s arguably the best knockback that we have. Just as a Guardian would use a Greatsword over the Hammer if they needed a pull, the Flamethrower and Tool Kit should both have their niches.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I don’t understand. Engineer is probably the best class in the game currently. Either that or Guardian, but it’s definitely up there. Sustained DPS, burst DPS, survivability, support, mobility; they’re top tier in pretty much every category and they don’t even have to work for it. They’re like the easiest class to play and the strongest.

And you want buffs.

Okay.

100% agreed on most everything, but Engineer is definitely not the easiest class to play. A Static Discharge burst rotation:

Utility Goggles → Analyze → Surprise Shot → Jump Shot → Lay Mine Field → Blunderbuss → Detonate Mine Field → Overcharged Shot → Surprise Shot again → Whatever

A Greatsword Warrior burst rotation:

100 Blades

kevkelsar.9507:

Why do so many expect the Engineer to play just like some other profession? There are 8 distinct professions for a reason, they all play differently for a reason. If I wanted to play like a Warrior or Guardian or Thief or whatever, then I would have chosen that profession instead of the Engineer. The main reason I choose to play the Engineer over and over and over again is because of the insane versatility in play style. I’m now on my fourth full set of armor because I keep finding new ways to play with the different utility skills and kits. And in all the various ways I’ve found to play, I’ve never felt underpowered or kitten in any way shape or form.

I think a lot of it is self-inflicted hysteria.

I hit level 80 with my Engineer in September. I tried a few different builds. The Bomb Kit. Static Discharge. The Grenade Kit. Turrets. I liked some of them, hated others. It wasn’t until I messed around with the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun that I settled into the class at 80 though, and felt like I was playing what I wanted to play.

I’ll swap to a P/P Conditioneer from time to time, but 90% of the time, since around early October, I’ve had the FT on my bar. Every week I would hear the same tripe. Grenadier is better damage than the Flamethrower. Elixir-Infused Bombs is better support than the Elixir Gun. Really, in the past six months this place hasn’t changed at all. Guru is the same, though much more polite about it.

Engineers like to fuss amongst themselves what the best setup is, but if you ask the general population, no one knows what the eff we are doing at all. They don’t care. They see the Bomb Kit, Grenade Kit, and Flamethrower as all the same. One time I did a CoE p1 run with the Bomb Kit for a change of pace over the oft-lauded HGH build or the FT/EG setup.

No one said anything. We completed the run. I got a Charged Core or two out of it. And I left. No one told me to use anything. No one asked why I wasn’t using the Grenade Kit. No one asked if I was geared for Condition Damage or Power. We just did the run, completed it, and left.

I honestly think a lot of users in this folder are a bunch of divas. I’ve leveled a Guardian and a Warrior to 80 as well—arguably the most powerful PvE classes in the game for support and DPS respectively. Nobody cares if I use my Engineer over them. No one even notices. Generally I play with my guildies so maybe that plays into the difference in perspective, but even if I am “pugging” a dungeon, I’ll ask if it’s cool that I roll with my Engi. I’ve never heard anyone say “No.”

Ever.

Kain Francois.4328:

(Balance-wise, WHY does it need to knock us back anyways? It’s single target…)

Because it (1) removes Immobilized, Crippled, and Chilled and (2) launches your target 450 range. You should be using Overcharged Shot as a gap creator given it spreads 750 distance between you and your enemy as it sends you back 300 as well.

The only other skill in the game that creates the same amount of distance between you and your target is Banish, which has almost twice the cooldown and doesn’t cure any conditions.

Overcharged Shot is like many Engineer skills is that it is adaptable to a lot of different situations. There was a lot of thought put into the Engineer and its weapon skills, and it frustrates me when I read comments like this:

Tyler.6731:

there’s no excuse other than laziness.

This is a perception issue. Probably because you want the Engineer to be something that it isn’t. I love the Engineer. I love its hobo sacks. I love that it gets flung around the field with its Rifle and gadgets. I love that our elixirs have a degree of randomness.

If you don’t love these things, maybe you should just play something else. Yeah, there’s an issue with turret AI. There’s an issue with pet AI in general. Rangers and Necros have it just as bad as we do, if not worse.

As for good “shotgun” Rifle skins, I suggest Fused Rifle Skin, Pact Rifle Skin, Ogre Blaster, Adamant Guard, or Pirate.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

’Nades are nice but hit nowhere near as hard as they used to.

This.

The Grenade Kit still outdamages the Flamethrower/Rifle/Bomb Kit/Tool Kit but not so much that they aren’t viable alternatives. The FT/EG build is still alive and well and provides a great balance of DPS and support. I’ve lately made a point to mess around more with the Rifle and Bomb Kit. I’ve even incorporated gadgets into my bar and (gasp!) went 30 points in Tools.

Not only was my damage output arguably just as good as it was with the Grenade Kit, but I was having a lot more fun at the same time, using a ton of Blast finishers that put my group’s Might stacks through the roof—not just my own (like the HGH build).

If you find the Grenade Kit tedious, don’t use it. And like what PWNcakes posted above, it’s not even as good as it used to be. Without the double Grenade Barrage and the nerf to “Grenade” (the #1 skill), it’s not even really worth using unless you plan on gearing for Condition Damage.

But the Elixir Gun is just as good at applying Poison (while removing conditions on allies at the same time). The Flamethrower is just as good at applying Burning. And the Pistol/Bomb Kit has access to damaging conditions that the Grenade Kit doesn’t even have.

The Grenade Kit is currently good at two things: Bleed stacking and Vulnerability stacking. We are not the only class that can do this. And if you have an Axe/Mace Warrior and a Scepter Ele in your group, you might as well not even concern yourself with it.

Aveneo.2068:

To return the question; why are you using Deadly Mixture over HGH?

It’s generally considered that Flame Jet is modified by x1.5 your Power value.

Let’s say you had 2000 Power base value, which is about right for FT Engineers sitting on 7-8 stacks of Juggernaut in Berserker gear.

(969 × 2000 × 1.5)/2600 = 1118 damage

+15% by Deadly Mixture = 1285 damage

To match that, you would have to have your Power increased by 300, which is ~8.5
stacks of Might.

(969 × 2300 × 1.5)/2600 = 1285

With the Flamethrower, you’ve only got room for 3 elixirs on your bar—Elixir H, Elixir B, and Elixir R/C/whatever.

You would have to chug all of your elixirs just to match Deadly Mixture, never mind having the luxury of using them when they’re best situationally used or running the Med Kit or Healing Turret.

Vigor is great if you’re concerned with your survivability.

I prefer running Fast-Acting Elixirs if I’m focusing on damage. Quicker stacking of HGH, and more Fury from Elixir B.

Try out both and see which suits your playstyle more.

Tool Kit is great in WvW, but I wouldn’t really use it in PvE.

You also take Invigorating Speed but don’t have Infused Precision or Speedy Kits. Where are you getting your Swiftness? Elixir B/Hidden Flask?

Why are you guys using HGH over Deadly Mixture?

Wolf.5816:

And “rule of thumb” excludes niche builds that can be made moderately effective in certain situations, however the synergies of condition Pistol/Flamethrower and Rifle/Flamethrower are much easier to obtain.

And what makes you think I’m talking about a “niche” build that’s “moderately” effective in “certain” situations?

Applying a “rule of thumb” to playing the Engineer is kind of pointless anyway. Best to be specific and identify the individual strengths of each weapon. You shouldn’t be settling with just the Rifle or Pistol. You should be carrying both with you at all times and a Shield.