Guild Wars 2

What’s so “inadequate” about the Flamethrower?

I’ve completed just about every dungeon path with it (dragging my feet going back to CM) and get 50+ badges an hour in WvW with it.

People have already explained what the issue is with Flame Jet. It’s just the auto-targeting mechanic locking onto your target poorly.

Just turn it off. Problem solved.

vinceftw.5086:

Yeah I bought myself 600 for now I don’t think they’ll rise though. A slight maybe when the event is done.

I don’t see it going up in price either. At least: Not for a very long time. There’s just too many on the TP.

But given that they’re so cheap, and because Condition Duration food is arguably our best to use in dungeons/WvW regardless of what build you have, you might as well stock up anyway.

It cost me roughly 20 gold to get all that I wanted. Maybe in a couple months I can re-sell it for 40, but I’d rather keep it to myself and never have to buy Rare Veggie Pizza ever again.

A couple days ahead of you.

I have 2000 Koi Cakes sitting in my bank.

…I might have gone overboard.

Can’t dance around the fact that the damage for Explosive Shot is hilariously bad. For Power or Conditions.

Even with 100% Condition Duration gear, you’ll only get your Bleeds to last 4 seconds before they disappear. Compare that to Shrapnel Grenade, which lasts 24 seconds with the same setup. Even Tranquilizer Dart from the Elixir Gun is better than the Pistol, applying 8 second Bleeds with 100% Condi Duration. (Both, by the way, do more direct damage as well.)

But looking at the other 2-4 skills you have when wielding the Pistol, it’s bar-none one of the best Condition Damage setups in the game. The Bleed stacking may not be the best, but you have access to Poison, Confusion, Blind, Burn, Immobilization, and Cripple all with the same weapon. There’s no other weapon in the game that offers that.

I think you also have to be mindful that while the Pistol may be weak, we definitely have the best Shield in the entire game. I would genuinely believe that, if the Pistol applied Bleed as efficiently as the Grenade Kit, the weapon would be overpowered given how ridiculously good our Shield skills are giving us a projectile reflect, AoE knockback, interrupt, ranged block, Stun/Daze, a 100% chance Projectile finisher, and a Blast finisher all in only two weapon skills.

I’m not saying that it necessarily excuses the awful damage of Explosive Shot—as I would like it to be buffed to 3-4 seconds myself—but Pistol/Shield Engineers are a lot more powerful than you insinuate, and have the ability to augment such ridiculous condition application and defensive control with the use of any kit that we feel like—with no weapon swap cooldown.

Zenguy.6421:

WvW: roaming Engs are strong; larger battles not so

Why do you say that?

Engineer is a great addition to any zerg. Fumigate is an amazing mass condition removal skill, the same with Healing Turret and Super Elixir. Healing Turret is actually really good given that it’s an almost instantaneous cast and can be dropped and overcharged while on the move, providing a Water field for Blast finishers, more condition removal, and Regeneration.

We also offer projectile walls with Toss Elixir U and an area revive with Toss Elixir R.

I love rolling as support as Engineer in WvW, though I just as often spec into the FT for badge vacuuming.

In PvE, I will admit we are not top tier. I will always go on my Guardian to any dungeon unless the group already has one—to which I then go on my Warrior. Engineer is usually the third pick if all other bases are covered.

Skitza.4069:

Well I didn’t see it anywhere in his initial updated post or anywhere in the first 4 or 5 pages of posts that seemed to get more off topic and a bit trolltastic. Maybe somewhere in that thread he talks about why it is superior to put 10 more in alchemy instead of 10 more in explosives but I didn’t see the discussion. The 100 power and 10% condition duration seem just as good if not better than the 100 vit and 10% boon duration to me. You might need to slot elixir C to have enough condition removal when 409 is gone but the trade for extra stacks of might seems fair…but that isn’t talked about in any of his alternatives in that link.

Two reasons:

The first is that more Boon Duration = More Might

1 stack of Might is 35 Power, 35 Condition Damage. Let’s say you’re running 6 Runes of Altruism with 30 Alchemy. That’s 45% Boon Duration.

Juggernaut applies 1 stack of Might every 3 seconds each that last for 15 seconds. With base Boon Duration that’s 5 total stacks. With 45% Boon Duration that’s 7 sustained stacks of Might. With 35% Boon Duration that’s 6 sustained stacks of Might. You’re actually not gaining 100 Power with 10 points in Explosives. You’re actually only gaining 65.

And Condition Duration? For what? Flamethrower Engineers have access to more than plenty Burning applications to permanently sustain it with only 10 points in Explosives. Another 10% isn’t enough to get an extra stack of Bleed from Sharpshooter either, so you gain nothing there. And 10% increased duration of Vulnerability against bosses? You will hardly notice.

The second reason, which compounds on the first one, is that Energy Conversion Matrix gives you a flat 1% boost in damage for every Boon you have. You may think that isn’t a whole lot; 1% is hardly noticeable.

But the difference between 2000 Power and 2100 Power in the output of your damage, when applied to a skill co-efficient, is usually around a 1% difference in damage. And actually: many times less.

If you’re running Infused Precision and Invigorating Speed, on top of Might and Fury, that’s a flat 4% increase in your damage which will significantly outperform an extra 100 Power in your build.

The whole advantage to running 20 Explosives is actually not about the Power and Condition Duration at all: It’s Enhance Performance giving you 3 extra stacks of Might. But I don’t know about you, but when I’m feeling serious about my Might stacking I can get to 19 stacks of Might all by myself.

99% of the time, the other 6 stacks of Might are granted by someone else. We are, after all, not the only class that can stack Might.

As for condi removal, I recommend Cleaning Formula 409 to start but I haven’t used it in weeks. Not since I swapped to the Healing Turret in dungeons.

Camaro Charr.2805:

310 Zhaitaffy
4 to 8 of other various types of Candy
15 Fireworks

It is time we stop this. I thought maybe south sun would have been a turning point. I will be on the phone with NCSoft tomorrow after work.

Not to be rude, but are you being truthful about opening 1000 boxes?

I opened 550 yesterday and got close to 1000 candy, 75 Fireworks, a Jade Weapon Ticket, and 6 Mini Risen Knights.

There’s no way you opened 1000 of them and only got 15 Fireworks and 310 Zhaitaffy.

Kalan.9705:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kalan.9705:

FT has a multitude of problems still. QoL, dps, burst, toolbelt skill, lack of finishers, traits, each skill, power/cond compared to other power/cond weapons, retalia,tion, auto, accuracy, range,

Flame Blast is arguably the best burst weapon skill Engineers have.

It does almost equal to Grenade Barrage in damage.

Flame blast isn’t a bad skill, even if it is incredibly susceptible to skill lag problems in wvw, and it isn’t supported that well or very cohesive with the rest of the kit.

If you’re having trouble with skill lag using Flame Blast, then the Grenade Kit must be nigh unplayable for you.

I think the FT has very few issues. Flame Jet could do a tad more damage, Incendiary Ammo could be a stronger toolbelt skill, and Flame Blast could be a Blast finisher, but IMHO it’s not as bad as you say it is with a “multitude of problems.”

Haette.2701:

Because the engineer rifle is the best weapon in the game.

What makes you say that?

Kalan.9705:

FT has a multitude of problems still. QoL, dps, burst, toolbelt skill, lack of finishers, traits, each skill, power/cond compared to other power/cond weapons, retalia,tion, auto, accuracy, range,

Flame Blast is arguably the best burst weapon skill Engineers have.

It does almost equal to Grenade Barrage in damage.

digiowl.9620:

And as OP pointed out, flame jet seems to be the only skill in the whole game that has a issue like this. This even tho there are multiple skills that use a similar mechanic.

It has a lot to do with its attack speed.

Zealot’s Flame and Drake’s Breath work the exact same way and will “miss” if you, well, miss. But Flame Jet attacks 10 times per 2.25 seconds while Drake’s Breath attacks only 4 times in the same time span.

It’s really nothing wrong with Flame Jet at all; the issue is just more obvious because of how quickly it hits.

I recommend turning off “Autotargeting” and “Promote Skill Target” in the General Options. By targeting a mob your Flame Jet will more likely “stick” to the target and affect your ability to sweep through crowds, which is what Flame Jet’s primary strength is.

Only target somebody when you’re using Flame Blast or focus-firing a single target. When dealing with 10+ targets, like in WvW, you should just be sending your plume in wide arcs to hit as many people as possible. Autotargeting and Promote Skill Target will hinder this. The game thinks you’re still trying to hit the guy you’re targeting, causing you to “miss.”

Chris Regian.3048:

I definitely like the sigil of strength, but I dont know if I will be switching in and out of the flamethower enough to utilize the sigil of battle. Does anyone have an opinion on whether the power boost of sigil of bloodlust or the slight crit chance increase (since the flamethrower can crit easily already and I am using berserker gear for increased crit damage) from sigil of accuracy would be better?

Bloodlust > Force > Perception > Accuracy

Accuracy is really only useful if you’re trying for on-crit effects like Empowering Might. As a DPS option it’s pretty much the worst choice.

Bloodlust adds more damage through Power than Force’s 5% increase; the same with Perception and Accuracy for Precision.

I recommend investing in two shields, one of which has Force and the other has Bloodlust. If you’re killing enough stuff with maximum potency Bloodlust is easy to achieve, use that one. If you’re not, like running CoF, use Force.

nakoda.4213:

Easiest spot to test this, I think, would be on the Archivist final encounter, where an FT could tank the fight by strafing around the square pillar on the right side of the Archivist as you run in. The change will likely negate this.

Or just attacking siege placements through gates, which is how I usually use my Engineer when defending towers in WvW.

If true this kind of sucks, but is acceptable.

I’m just too happy about Crystalline Dust being salvaged through Globs of Ecto to really care about the balance changes. I just feel bad for the couple people that completed their Gift of Mastery recently in my guild that had to spend 38 silver per Dust.

They already said that the sPvP patch later this month is where the balancing changes will happen, anyway. This patch was mostly bug-fixes and Dragon Bash-related.

Chris Regian.3048:

nakoda.4213:

if you are going for a might stacking set, yes.

Ok. Any ideas on sigils? Or should I just pick ones with good bonuses that I like.

Strength or Battle are the usual suspects.

Quentijar.1274:

Thank you very much for the effort of presenting this very interesting build Phineas. I like the overall idea and I intend to try it out. Nevertheless I have one major concern. I see that in your basic build you only have 1 elixir slottted in the 4th slot, that for group play should generally be elixir R. How do you justify the use of 2-elixir boosting traits (Fast-acting elixirs and cleansing formula) just for 1 elixir? I would understand if elixir gun skills were affected but since they are not, I think that these 2 traits get somewhat wasted. How are you cleaning conditions just with elixir R?

Thanks

Well, there’s two things I must explain. (1) Healing Turret and Super Elixir is where I get most of my condition removal, which is usually more than enough. (2) Elixir R is not what I always use. It was simply what I slotted into the skill calculator. I make a point to using all of my elixirs listed above in special situations when they’re most needed.

To tell you the truth, these days I mostly run Elixir B or Elixir U over Elixir R. It has nothing to do with the viability of the skill; I just don’t often find the thrown skill is necessary in most dungeons since most players are pretty familiar with all dungeon paths in the game by now and rarely wipe out.

As to the other stuff:

Cleaning Formula 409 and Fast-Acting Elixirs are both optional in the guide and have several viable alternatives. If running Infusion Precision, Invigorating Speed is a good option. Not only are you getting perma Vigor/Swiftness in combat, but you’re also giving yourself a flat 2% buff in damage from Energy Conversion Matrix since you’re permanently sustaining two additional boons.

Protection Injection is another suitable option, but I find that it is a much more effective trait for sPvP/WvW. The only time I ever really slot it into my traits is when I’m skipping content like Arah and the Protection proc is just a way to keep me alive if I happen to get knocked down (those Risen Mage spells especially).

Like others have stated, this build is very flexible. 10/30/0/30/0 overall is a very versatile trait distribution that satisfies a lot of different builds in a lot of areas of the game. It’s kind of why I’ve settled on it in the first place, and it works for more than just the Flamethrower—but that’s for a different conversation.

timidobserver.7925:

All of that said, my guardian reigns superior in badge farming. It’s pretty ridiculous how many bags a guardian can pick up if your zerg is frequently wiping people.

Totally. Wave of Wrath is OP.

Kain Francois.4328:

Except in GW1 the Elite skills were actually game-changing and had a decent cooldown.

Where in GW2 we have…. Mortar -.-

Supply Crate is definitely a game-changer.

That was pretty much how Guild Wars 1 worked.

I don’t understand why they didn’t allow the option to begin with.

timidobserver.7925:

Badges are all about surviving the entire encounter and hitting every enemy there. I find surviving in a really large zerg to be easier on my warrior. The engi’s lack of consistent stability makes them very unappealing for zerging to me.

You think the Warrior Hammer is a better tagging weapon than the Flamethrower? Because the setup I linked definitely has no trouble living through zergs. It has no Stability but you have pretty much permanent Vigor, Swiftness, and Protection. No offense to anyone I play with that may be reading this thread, but I also walk away with more bags than just about anyone. Only Staff Guardians in full Soldier/Azurite gear outperform my bag rate.

I’ve tried everything on my Warrior. Greatsword, Hammer, Axe/Axe. Nothing has matched the tagging potential of the Flamethrower or Guardian Staff. The only thing my Warrior is exceptional at is map completion using Whirlwind Attack and Savage Leap.

We’re fighting against Tarnished Coast and Sea of Sorrows this week (GG ANet, putting the #1 NA server against the #7 NA server) and map completion is honestly the only reason I used him this past weekend.

I love my Warrior in dungeons, but in sPvP and WvW I seriously hate it.

I was drawn in by its versatility, but it is primarily the aesthetic that keeps me going even after 1000+ hours played on it.

I’m not a big fan of the Grenade Kit and never really was, but I love the Bomb Kit, Tool Kit, and Flamethrower. I love that our Rifle and Gadgets knock us around like a ragdoll. I love the goggles, trenchcoats, and the “hobo sacks.”

I have an 80 Warrior and an 80 Guardian too, and I play them all the time. But my first love was Engineer, and I’m still finding creative ways to play the class in all areas of the game.

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

Karast.1927:

I found with FT the issue you hit is that you do not get as many tags due to the mid ranged abilities and just the way FT functions when at it’s max range, also if you push in hard you take nasty retal hits.

If your key on sticking with FT I would advise a more tanky gear setup if your not already doing so. Knights or invaders, and maybe augmenting your build with another ranged option.

You’ll want to mix Soldiers in with Knights gear. Retaliation ignores armor so knights gear, while not useless, would not help when it comes to retaliation. I’m sitting at 21k health and 3k toughness, not counting jug, with a 40% crit, I hardly even notice retaliation.

Definitely agreed on Soldier/Knight gear. I can totally half-kitten my setup and just stay in my usual 10/30/0/30/0 trait setup and still survive OK so long as I’m wearing my Soldier stuff.

This is what I do when I’m serious about my WvWing. You could also go 0/30/10/30/0 for Condition Immunity at 25%. Your call, but Omnom Compote and full Soldier gear is required.

Basic gist is full Soldier (all armor can be bought with Karma from various Orr vendors—Run AC/HotW a bunch of times for Pistol and Shield) with Azurite Orbs, perma Vigor/Swiftness, and utilizing both traits that give us a bunch of Protection. Rune of the Forge + Sigil of Fire = Lots of AoE tagging beyond just Flame Jet. Use Gear Shield and Static Shield when you feel like you’re in too deep and need to back off. Magnetic Inversion inside your Water fields, though Med Kit can be used instead if you need help catching up to a zerg. Since the heals for Med Kit are on the toolbelt and “weapon” skills, you can swap to HT when approaching the zerg without fumbling with any cooldowns.

It’s largely inspired by one of nakoda’s sPvP variants. It emphasizes defense over offense. 3300 Armor in the FT, 3200 Armor in your P/S, 24K HP overall and always.

Elixir B can be swapped out for a stunbreaker if you think you need it, though I try to stick close to the Guardians in my guild for Stability. Elixir U is really the only thing I otherwise often use, and that’s more for Toss Elixir U blocking projectiles when fleeing than the elixir itself.

Hope this helps with the construction of your build, but the FT is really an amazing badge vacuum when specced for tankiness. I’d say it’s almost as durable as a Guardian is, and with significantly more mobility. I will admit, though: My Guardian is my main WvW character. The Staff is just too powerful in tagging players while also providing exceptional utility. Wall of Reflection + Line of Warding is just too much fun to use.

Edit: Fixed the link. I do use Juggernaut when wielding the FT, not Coated Bullets.

timidobserver.7925:

I have a warrior, guardian, and engineer all level 80. I find it much easier to get badges/wxp on the warrior and guardian. The guardian, in particular, is very good at badges. I’ve gotten a whole stack of 250 or more in a day sometimes.

I’d imagine that the best way to get badges on an engi is grenade spamming, but I hate grenades so yeh. If your playing against servers with decent zergs, they are going to be stacking and running in a tight group regularly, so grenading their stack should be pretty productive. Given the range on grenades, you should be tag most enemies. Put on a sigil of fire to get even more tags.

You find it easier to get badges on a Warrior than an Engineer?

I’m curious what build you’re using on your War. I find using mine in WvW to be a total waste of time.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

if you are facing east and turn the camera north to follow the movement of the mob the hit will “track” in the camera direction.

Isn’t that what it’s supposed to do? Holding down your RMB locks your camera and hides your cursor. Where you move your mouse becomes where your character looks, and your ‘A’ and ‘D’ keys change from being “turn” keys to “strafe” keys—to the left and right respectively.

It’s the same mechanic that allows you to lock your ground-targeting cursor when using the Grenade Kit to a fixed range. It’s invaluable when fast-casting. By holding down the RMB you can also “sweep” your Flame Jet’s plume over an entire crowd versus being locked to your target, which is what makes it so amazing in WvW.

I like the way it works right now. I’d rather they not change it. Just get used to it and you won’t miss as much.

lunyboy.8672:

Flamethrower: This I cannot recommend in WvW at all, simply because the Retaliation proc is HIGHER damage than the FT auto attack. Which means that you would simply be killing yourself faster the more opponents you tag (3 at a time, btw) if they have a reasonable Retal source.

I disagree. I primarily use the FT in zergs and Retaliation is almost never an issue.

A lot of Guardians will frontload a bunch of Retaliation early on in a fight, but once two zergs collide into each other it’s total BS. Skill lag. Frame rate. Culling to where you see nothing but name plates. I may get tagged with some Retaliation, but it’s really no worse than it is when I’m rolling on my own Guardian piling through an enemy zerg with my Staff.

“Stand Your Ground” only affects five players anyway.

I’ve seen Engineers over-extend themselves in a fight, stand on Wells, etc. etc. and then complain that Retaliation killed them. Retaliation didn’t kill you. It likely contributed, but it’s hardly the sole cause.

Play smart, trait into Inventions to give yourself more consistent Protection, get a proper insignia and runeset for WvW, and you’ll find that the FT Engineer survives just fine, Retaliation or otherwise.

Or you can stand in the back and use the Grenade Kit. Both are viable. But invest in some real WvW gear and you’ll love your Flamethrower and its badge vacuum capability.

NickDollahZ.5348:

Only thing I see improving is build diversity

Isn’t that the point of these proposed changes?

Anthrage.2519:

Mod jon_peters: but I will say lot of trait diversity incoming for late June

Mod jon_peters: trying to improve many bad traits

Mod jon_peters: to bring up new builds

judgement.9842:

Anyone else finding it almost impossible to get badges in WvWvW when on an engineer with Flamethrower?

Are you having difficulty hitting targets, staying alive, or what?

NickDollahZ.5348:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think merging Fireforged Trigger and Deadly Mixture is a bit much. I’d rather they just move Deadly Mixture to the Firearms tree and make Fireforged Trigger an Adept trait.

As for a proposed change for Acidic Elixirs … I like the idea of making thrown elixirs a Blast finisher.

So instead of buffing the weakest kit (flamethrower) we should make elixirs even stronger?

Cant tell if serious -.-

Moving Deadly Mixture to the Firearms tree would be buffing the Flamethrower.

Right now an FT Engineer has to put 20 points into Alchemy. That’s the primary reason that the Flamethrower doesn’t match the DPS of the Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit. Make it so it only needs 30 points in Firearms to fully boost the kit and that leaves 50 points to place elsewhere.

A viable 10/30/0/0/30 setup would be a pretty significant buff to the kit, especially if they rework Tools so that it’s worth traiting into.

I think merging Fireforged Trigger and Deadly Mixture is a bit much. I’d rather they just move Deadly Mixture to the Firearms tree and make Fireforged Trigger an Adept trait.

As for a proposed change for Acidic Elixirs … I like the idea of making thrown elixirs a Blast finisher.

nakoda.4213:

Awesome, glad to see what you’ve put together make it’s way to the official forums.

I’ve cross referenced your thread with my sPVP FT thread.

We should get together and hash out the EG builds in sPVP, so that people have access to all the information.

Sure! I’m not as well versed at sPvP as I am WvW and PvE, but it is a kit I think is very under-represented and should be worked into popularity.

Vyxion.6358:

I’m not a fan of the 10explosive trait incediary powder because it does almost nothing when you are firing on multiple targets at once. It will burn 1 target and not the rest thanks to that cooldown. For single target it’s pretty good though given there’s no people around you alrdy extending the burn duration in which case it again won’t really do much at all. That’s why in my firestorm build this trait was excluded in favor of 10 more tools traits but since your utility selection doesn’t favor SD I suppose that’s not much of an option either unless you want to combine kit speed with vigor on swiftness (I did that when I ran FT/EG).

My build when I ran FT/EG was 0-30-0-30-10 (for more critdmg, shorter toolbelt cd’s, swiftness on kit combined with vigor trait in alchemy so i can dodge more) though you probably saw that coming by now after all I said before

Ofcourse I now run 0-30-0-20-20 but that’s an entirely different build you visited my topic for already
How do you think your build compares to my FT SD build (firestorm) ?

Would i be wrong in my assessment that I would be doing more dmg but you have more supporting options for your party?

Well, I’m sure 10 Tools is a viable alternative, but I always prefer flat buffs to my damage than random chance.

Running Incendiary Powder I’m pretty much guaranteed to maintain Burning on targets, meaning I will always have a 10% damage boost to Flame Jet. 10 Explosives is also an additional 100 Power to my setup, which elevates my DPS across the board—not just when I crit.

And yeah: That’s about how I’d slice it in terms of difference between this and your Static Discharge setup.

Tellurian.5418:

Thank you for posting this, some really great info.

What do you think about the more tanky variations of FT/EG like wearing full knights gear, dropping last 10 pts in elixers for inventions, using sigil of blood, omnom pie and etc…

There’s definitely nothing wrong with going for a more tanky variation for the FT/EG. I carry a Soldier insignia set with me at all times as well, though I very rarely use it.

And those 10 points: What trait are you taking in Inventions?

Part Five: Insignias, Runes, and Sigils

Armor Insignia: Berserker insignia is ideal for most high-end PvE content. Celestial also has its uses in open-world/WvW content.

Runes: Altruism is good, playing up the hybrid support/DPS nature of this build. Gives your group 3 stacks of Might and Fury every 15 seconds. Scholar is also viable if concerned with raw damage output.

Sigils: Invest in multiple sets of weapons. Use Sigil of Night in nighttime dungeons/fractals. Use Sigil of Force in daytime dungeons. Sigil of Bloodlust, Strength, and Battle are all suitable offhand sigils.

Part Four: Weapon Selection

Though you will be using your Flamethrower and Elixir Gun mostly, you still need to make an active decision of what your equipped weapon will be. Similar to utility skills I will list each option and explain their strengths.

The ultimate decision of which is best really comes down to playstyle and what you need most in the moment. Just keep in mind that when using the Rifle you are forgoing the natural advantage of having two sigils to work with versus one (i.e., Pistol of Strength + Shield of Force versus Rifle of Battle).

As with many aspects of this build playing into a versatile role in groups, I recommend just buying a full set of weapons (1 Rifle, 2 Pistols, 1 Shield) and bring them all with you, slotting them in an 18-slot Invisible Leather Backpack or something similar.

Rifle: Overall, an efficient weapon choice given that it plays into the close proximity to targets similar to the Flamethrower. Jump Shot, Blunderbuss, and Overcharged Shot all work best within 400 to 100 range of your target, making the Rifle an optimal choice when centered on offensive output. Do not stay out of the Flamethrower for very long, however, as you will do more damage with Flame Jet than you do with Hip Shot.

Pistol: The Pistol has gotten a pretty bad rep when used in Power-based builds, but don’t be fooled: Poison Dart Volley actually does a pretty significant amount of damage (4-6K depending on Armor). Poison also has great utility in PvE when fighting bosses that regenerate health, as Fumigate alone does not permanently sustain Poison on a target. Static Shot can help as a situational Blind when needed, but its Confusion is nothing to write home about. When dual wielding Pistols, you additionally have access to Blowtorch and Glue Shot. Blowtorch will help in better sustaining Burning damage on a target for Flame Jet, and Glue Shot is a helpful but momentary AoE snare. Like Hip Shot, stay away from Explosive Shot. Use your Poison Dart Volley or Static Shot as needed and swap back to your Flamethrower or Elixir Gun.

Shield: Best utilized for its defensive abilities but it can additionally be used offensively for its Combo finishers. Magnetic Inversion is a Blast finisher and Throw Static Shield is a Projectile finisher. When using Throw Static Shield with the Light fields this build utilizes you will cure conditions on allies within vicinity of the target hit (so long as the shield passes through your Super Elixir field). When using Magnetic Inversion paired with the Fire fields this build utilizes you will stack Might for your allies, or heal them in Water fields. As such, beyond its obvious defensive capability with its stuns, blocks, and knockbacks, it can be used to buff your allies when needed.

Part Three: Choosing Your Skills

Med Kit: Best self-healing skill at the Engineer’s disposal. Roll with this when you feel like focusing on DPS with Drop Stimulant.

Healing Turret: Still the be-all, end-all group support healing skill. Provides 2 conditions removed per overcharge across your entire group (as long as they’re within range) and can be detonated in Napalm for Area Might.

Flamethrower: Natively stacks Might while wielding it, so this will be the kit you spend the majority of the time using. Integrate Napalm into your rotation so that you’re stacking Might through your Blast finishers. Wield this for DPS and providing offensive boons to your group.

Elixir Gun: Continues to reprise its role as a great support kit along with a stunbreaker in Healing Mist (toolbelt). Make a point to using Acid Bomb (a Blast finisher) every time it’s available, both inside and outside of Napalm depending on what the situation requires.

Rocket Boots: Provides a 5+ second burn through Rocket Kick, though the main utility skill has its own strengths. It’s a Blast finisher, which makes it pair well with Napalm, but more importantly it’s a great escape option that the Engineer has often lacked, curing immobilized, crippled, and chilled conditions in the process.

Elixir B: Consuming Elixir B grants Might, Fury, Retaliation, and Swiftness, but the best part about the skill is that Toss Elixir B grants 4+ seconds of Stability. Very useful.

Elixir R: Use this whenever you think you may need the area revive through Toss Elixir R.

Elixir U: Use this whenever you need a projectile wall through Toss Elixir U. Also acts as a stunbreaker when consumed.

Elixir S: Use this whenever you need area stealth. Also acts as a stunbreaker when consumed.

Part Two: Selecting Your Traits

Rocket Boots Variant (0/25/0/20/25)

Use this variant to maximize the damage output of your Flamethrower and Elixir Gun. 25 Tools gives you Enduring Damage, increasing your damage by 10% with full Endurance. Being dubbed the “Rocket Boots” variant, this better benefits wielding the Rocket Boots as your third utility with the use of Speedy Gadgets, though you could swap it out for something else as necessary.

Elixirs Variant (0/25/0/30/15)

Use this variant to maximize the boon support of the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun with 30% Boon Duration from Alchemy. With Potent Elixirs, this setup also strengthens the potency of your elixirs, pushing Toss Elixir B’s Stability to 6 seconds in duration. This also increases the length of Toss Elixir U’s projectile wall.

Part One: Introduction

As a “comprehensive look” to the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun, it is important to establish both kits’ strengths and weaknesses.

This is not a glass cannon DPS build. Let me make this clear. This is not meant to compete with the Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit in DPS. This is a hybrid spec that utilizes the middle ground between defense and offense, providing apt auxiliary support. This is your Hammer Guardian. This is your Warhorn Warrior. This is your Staff Elementalist. The Flamethrower and Elixir Gun, while providing a good amount of damage on their own, are just as much about buffing your party through Area Might and condition removal.

If you are searching for the best CoF p1 or 40+ Fractal build for the Engineer, then you may want to look elsewhere. If you are, however, searching for the best spec that plays the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun to their strengths, that plays the Engineer to its auxiliary strengths, then read on.

A Link To The Build
(For the TL;DRs in life)

Hey all.

This is Phineas Poe from Sanctum of Rall’s Ethereal Guardians [EG]. Though many of you are likely already familiar, the purpose behind this thread is to provide a comprehensive guide to using the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun in Guild Wars 2.

If you have any additional questions about the FT/EG that is not addressed here, please do not hesitate to comment in this thread, send me a PM on Guru, or whisper/mail me directly at Phineas Poe.3018 in-game.

At first, pressing 3 buttons felt very clunky, but I kind of just got used to it, similar to swapping to the Med Kit and going 1-2-3 with the Drop Bandage skills.

Skill lag is definitely an issue at times, yeah—especially if you’ve got all three worlds trying to cap Stonemist at the same time. I guess in such cases it would be nice if the Healing Turret was more useful when left out, but these moments—at least for me—are a rarity.

Nietzsche.5870:

Is fury (since I have already above 50% crit chance) really worth it to sacrifice 15% boon duration overall and 35% might duration?

I think the answer to that question becomes pretty clear when you look at how much stacking Might Duration actually adds.

Juggernaut gives 1 stack of Might every 3 seconds for 15 seconds, right?

With 0 Boon Duration, that means you’re getting 5 stacks of Might through Juggernaut.

30 points in Alchemy gives you 30% Boon Duration.

30% of 15 is 4.5; another 15% through Altruism is 2.25 … So together they add another 6.75 seconds to your Juggernaut Might stacks … or 2 stacks of Might (because 1 stack of every 3).

With 30 points in Alchemy + Runes of Altruism, you will have +45% Might Duration where Juggernaut will then add up to 7 stacks of Might.

With 30 points in Alchemy + Hoelbrak/Fire/Strength you have 90% Might Duration. That seems like a lot, right? But really, that’s only 9 sustained stacks of Might.

That’s 2 stacks of difference, or 70 Power/Condition Damage.

Yet Rune of Altruism gives you 3 stacks of Might when you swap to your heal skill such as the Med Kit. So you’re actually giving yourself more Might than you would actually gearing for Might Duration, and actually giving it to your entire party and not just yourself.

Now, you COULD just do 2 Altruism + 2 Hoelbrak + 2 Strength and go for Might Duration if you want to anyway, but I believe that adding a flat 20% critical hit chance across your entire group adds a lot more DPS than just a couple extra stacks of Might.

So … yeah. I do think so. I do think it’s worth it.

Nietzsche.5870:

Now I have met a lot of Engineers that run Deadly Mixture (VII) instead of Potent Elixirs (VIII) in the Alchemy tree, don’t do it!!! While yes it looks like you will lose out on DPS you won’t!

You really think the extra few seconds of Might/Fury from Elixir B with Potent Elixirs is better than a flat 15% damage increase?

FT/EG Engineers can already maintain Fury through Drop Stimulant, Elixir B, Toss Elixir B, and Runes of Altruism, so no DPS is gained there. And Rune of Altruism giving your entire group Might and Fury is way better than a few extra stacks for yourself through Hoelbrak/Fire/Strength.

The choice of HGH is fine, but you can easily run Deadly Mixture with it at the same time anyway.

NickDollahZ.5348:

@Poe

Then Thumper turret must be OP then. 3 blast finishers

That’s true.

But the Thumper Turret also has like three times the cooldown Throw Mine does.

Wolf.5816:

Wish the act of detonating Mine Field was a blast finisher.

Well, it’s 5 different mines meaning 5 different Blast finishers.

I also think having two different Blast finisher skills in one slot is a bit OP. (Throw Mine is one already.)

JubeiTM.5763:

This build helped me a lot while leveling and it really rocks at level 80:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Anyone-can-suggest-a-PvE-Rifle-build/first#post2067076

How is your survivability in dungeons going full Zerker with only 10 points in Alchemy? Also, you said this which raised an eyebrow:

JubeiTM.5763:

- You won’t have great condition removers but your range from the monsters will compensate.

Isn’t the Rifle best used at close range?

OP: I use the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun. Try them out.

JohnDied.3476:

I bet the guard in the party thinks that he needs another tank

If a Guardian thinks he needs another Guardian in the group then he is a terrible Guardian.

Deniara Devious.3948:

But a guardian doesn’t need fire fields to give 12 stacks of mights to its allies:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empower
Besides giving 12 stacks of might it also does very good healing when combined with Altruistic healing if you have 5 allies near you.

Well, therein lies the rub. Empower only has its Might stacks last 10 seconds each. Area Might stacks from a Fire field last twice that. And because most Engineers have a lot of points in Alchemy and run with rune sets like Hoelbrak/Fire/Strength or Altruism, our Might stacks last significantly longer than Empower’s—because how many Guardians actually roll with more than 10 points in Virtues in PvE?

Deniara Devious.3948:

I would argue that using a skill like that is easier for most beginning players than using a combo fields. I am not claiming that engineer is a useless profession when it comes to pve or WvWvW, but it does have accessibility problems. Skill floor is clearly higher than e.g. playing a warrior, guardian or thief.

Yes, and? The Engineer is also a class that can group stack Regeneration, Might, and Fury, provide a projectile wall, a Fire field, Water field, Light field, several condition removal skills, and permanent Poison and Burn on top of moderate Bleed and Vulnerability stacking all in the same build.

The skill floor is certainly higher for an Engineer than it is a Guardian, but so is the skill ceiling.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Maintaining permanent poison with grenade kit alone would be pretty kitten hard as well. Yes, I know you can swap to pistol, bomb kit and flamethrower to achieve that 100% uptime in pve.

Well, that was what I meant. What I said was: traited properly, the kit, and the build that uses it in general, applies Poison, Bleed, Burn, and Vulnerability. Permanently.

Maybe it was poor word choice, but between Poison Grenade and Poison Dart Volley, you can sustain Poison no problem. Any Engineer can, actually, so long as they use the Elixir Gun too—or just have Hair Trigger traited. Poison Dart Volley then gives 10 seconds of Poison on an 8 second cooldown.

JohnDied.3476:

With regards to combo-fields. These can be really useful when you’re roaming in wvw, because of the number of blast finishers you can get, but in a dungeon you’ll find very few of these actually being “popped”. I did the whole BoB, shield, healing turret rotation for months, but the boons fall off quick in a fight where you have to dodge around a lot. Playing my guard I actually found myself blasting more water/fire fields than ever before with the hammer, but it made me notice how few other people actually take advantage of these.

Why would your boons fall off quickly? If you have 30 points in Alchemy, your Area Might stacks should last well over 25 seconds each.

If your group is not taking advantage of Combo fields then you’re just not playing with very good players. Good players will use Projectile or Whirl finishers in Light fields. Good players will use Blast finishers in Fire or Water fields. What separates a good Warrior from a great one is that he’ll not just pick up his Banner of Discipline, use #2, and drop it. He’ll pick it up, use #2, and then use #5 in a Combo field—preferably my Napalm.

JohnDied.3476:

With regards to condi-removal… I won’t bring up the fact that fumigate does zero damage (oops I just did), or that it’s a cone and not an aoe… or that it’s not instant like shouts. It’s just such a clunky skill with one use. When do you ever have so many conditions that an instant 2 condi-removing aoe shout cant take care of things, given that it also reliably gives useful boons? I mean, I can always cleanse my party with my toss elixirs, but it’s not as streamlined, nor is it reliable (I swear I never seem to get that kitten ed stability on the kitten ed harpie fractal).

So the “State of the Engineer” in PvE is dictated by laziness? Fumigate removes 5 conditions on allies. It has, with Fireforged Trigger, a 9.5 second cooldown. It’s not clunky.

Like your argument with Combo fields, why are you even entertaining bad playing in this conversation? It’s a skill we have—a skill that works efficiently at cleansing conditions while additionally stacking Vulnerability and Poison.

Like someone else’s response to the Bomb Kit’s Fire field, if you don’t use it that’s a choice you actively make—but the Engineer totally outclasses the Guardian in condition removal.

Manuhell.2759:

Phineas, the healing turret won’t ever stay alive a minute, especially in dungeons. They get shotted in seconds by any enemy with ranged/aoe attacks. That is, everything in dungeons.

That’s why you drop it, overcharge it, and pick it back up.

Even if you detonate it for an Area Heal or Area Might in a Fire field, it still only has a 20 second cooldown.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Engineers have plenty of blast finishers. When the update to the healing elixir was made, I managed to make a rotation that made the best out of the 3 second water field. I could use 3 blast finishers inside of that field. First, from the off-hand shield. Second, from the Elixir Gun. Third, from the turret detonation. Not factoring in the regen that gave, that put out 3960 healing from the water fields with no healing power, plus the 2520 that came from the turret’s overcharge for a total of 6480 in healing in an instant. All without healing power.

In theory you could get more. If you use the thumper turret’s detonation + shockwave alongside of the detonation from the land mine, you could get 6 blast finishers off in that water field by yourself. Though the timing with the elixir gun is difficult, so it might be worth it to just time Big Ol’ Bomb instead if you wanted to go with a full healing spec. Probably wouldn’t even need healing power, since at 0 you’ll be healing 10k HP in an AoE.

Anyway, the Engineer and the Guardian play very differently from each other. There are a few things the engineer does that the guardian can’t, though. One of them is conditions. The guardian can burn, but the engineer is the only class with access to all damaging conditions, and can very easily maintain a permanent burn. Engineers can also stack a lot of vulnerability, and in more ways than once (from grenades and from Sitting Duck). I also believe that, with kit swapping triggering sigils, and the might on heal trait, engineers are better at stacking might than guardians. Though guardians do it in an AoE better, so it is less selfish.

The engineer also has some better controls. They have more access to immobilize and cripple, and grenades also have more access to chill than Glacial Heart gives. Though guardians do have quite a few stuns/knockdowns, I think engineers might have more. Especially if they’re running a turret build.

All in all, I think the guardian is better at direct support. The engineer’s skills are quite random, and you’ll never know what the elixir will give or what the engineer even has on their belt. They might be better at cleansing conditions for the group, since Fumigate from the elixir gun when used right is basically an entire team cleanse on a 12 second cooldown.

When looking at it, it is amazing how similarly these two classes fulfill these roles. They have a lot of the same tricks, like projectile reflection, blinds, vigor, healing, knockback, similar combo fields, plenty of finishers, might stacking, and team support. Considering that they play nothing like, this is an amazing feat. I’d say that the guardian is more reliable in their support, while having better boon support and higher damage (especially against single targets), whereas the engineer is more scattered while having more selfish boons and higher versatility in any single setup. All in all… I’d recommend taking both. If you have an engineer, great. If a guardian comes in, the engineer can just alter their spec to do something different really quickly. It’s not like having more boons or more reflection walls is a bad thing.

Oh jeez. I knew I was forgetting something. Fumigate!

Removes up to 5 conditions per channel, and only has a 9.5 cooldown with Fireforged Trigger. Yesplz.

JohnDied.3476:

My AH guard comes in no boons, gets a few crits, his damage is then on par with my engi, after a few more seconds my guard is a might-stacking powerhouse, his #2 doing more damage than my engi’s grenade barrage (which is on a much higher cooldown).

Regardless of how good your Whirling Wrath/Mighty Blow is, the Grenade Kit still totally outclasses them both in the #1 skill and everything else. Traited properly, the kit—and the build that uses it in general—applies Poison, Bleed, Burn, and Vulnerability. Permanently.

By just eating Rare Veggie Pizza you should easily be getting 20+ stacks of Bleed and Vulnerability. Seriously. There is something flawed with your Grenade Kit build if an AHEM Guardian is even sniffing remotely the same output in DPS, especially if you have any trouble maintaining Might or Fury on your Engineer. Ascended Berserker jewelry or not.

When tailored more for DPS, I’ll swap out my Healing Turret for the Med Kit. Between Elixir B, Toss Elixir B, Drop Stimulant, and Runes of Altruism, I can stack almost 2 minutes of Fury on myself at full potency. And give some of that to others.

JohnDied.3476:

On my guard I can remove 2 party wide conditions a shout (pure of voice and soldier runes), that’s 10 conditions per shout.

Yes. I am aware. I run the same setup.

But Healing Turret’s overcharge cures two conditions on everyone in the vicinity and only has a 15 second cooldown before it can be used again when you pick up the turret. Compare that to a skill like Stand Your Ground, which has almost double the cooldown even with Superior Aria.

Engineers have substantially more condition removal than Guardians do, especially since we have Projectile finishers that additionally cure conditions on those in vicinity of the target hit so long as they pass through the Light field.

Deniara Devious.3948:

What spammable fire field the engineer has besides the fire bomb (from the bomb kit) ? Not that many WvWvW engineers are running with the bomb kit for obvious reasons, at least if you play in top tier with massive melee trains.

Well, that’s a choice you’re actively making. This thread is about the state of the Engineer in PvE anyway, not WvW. Slotting the Bomb Kit gives you a relatively spammable Fire field to stack Might. If you guys choose to go without it that’s your call—but don’t complain about things other classes have if you’re not going to play the Engineer to its strengths, or claim that we don’t offer anything unique to groups.

Napalm has a 10 second duration to its Fire field. At a 30 second cooldown, it’s arguably the best Fire field in the game.

Also, I play on Sanctum of Rall, FWIW.

Deniara Devious.3948:

It is true that the guardian completely lacks water fields and probably for a good reason. E.g. that mighty blow is a spammable blast finisher
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_Blow

And that is something the engineers lack. Engineers have a lot of finishers, but generally they are put to useless skills (e.g. turrets or elixir X) and have longer cooldown e.g. supply crate is 180 s cooldown blast finisher, which almost never ends up being used as the blast finisher.

Every single guardian weapon gives light fields, besides the focus. This gives guardian access to almost unlimited retaliation, plus also a lot of cleansing bolts using whirl finishers.

That’s because the Engineer is better utilized as the Combo fielder in the group, not the finisher (insert joke here). Engineers actually have the most versatile collection of Combo fields of all classes in the game.

Deniara Devious.3948:

It is true that an elixir gun+ healing turret engineer can cure more conditions from his allies than a guardian can, but guardian can provide his allies a lot more boons (protection, aegis, regeneration, retaliation, might, swiftness). These abundant boons are one of the main reasons why guardians are so wanted in any party. And let’s not forget guardian has access to stability, which is perhaps the most valuable boon in WvWvW.

Again, this thread isn’t about WvW. It’s about PvE. And even though Stability is very sought-after in PvE still, so is condition removal and raw healing. Engineers have pretty consistent group Regeneration between the Healing Turret, Cleansing Mist, and Healing Mist.

If you think a Hammer Guardian’s Symbol of Protection is more useful than the Elixir Gun’s Super Elixir, that’s your opinion. But Guardians hardly do everything that Engineers do. I’ve leveled them both to 80 and enjoy them for what they both provide a group in support, but they’re very different in scope and design, and I feel that my FT/EG Engineer is significantly better at bolstering the DPS of a group while Guardian is better at bolstering the survivability of a group—though they both succeed at working in both directions. Why choose between them when you can take both, anyway?

tigirius.9014:

I do agree, PVE guards and warrs are way OP and needs to be brought down across the board.

They shouldn’t nerf Guardians. They should bring up weaker classes on level with them.