Guild Wars 2

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Why on earth would ~10% less damage matter (200 toughness = ~10% less damage)? Anything that’s remotely difficult is going to be doing such high damage that being that close is nearly suicide unless you’re full tank. If it’s not difficult content, then again, 10% less damage doesn’t matter.

I beg to differ.

200 Toughness is a huge change in damage reduction. Just watch a glass cannon Warrior versus one wearing Knight’s insignia armor with Berserker weapons and trinkets. Toughness helps.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

We’re also ignoring the fact that if you are nuking from 1,500 range, nothing is attacking you.

This is so false. What, do you run nothing but CoF all day and think the rest of PvE is like that? Not only are there plenty of bosses in this game that have mechanics that injure both melee and ranged classes alike, but there are several in this game that require you to stand in melee range otherwise you would die.

The idea that Grenade Kit Engineers just stroll through PvE content from 1,500 range never having to worry about anything is just as flawed as saying that Bomb Kit Engineers just faceroll PvE pressing 1 over and over, never having to re-orient themselves or dodge AoE.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

If you are stacking mid fight, you are spending time and recharges on getting a few stacks of might, which is approximately 2% more damage. Thing is, during this time, you could be attacking, increasing the party damage by A LOT more. Skills like Empower do this MUCH better (12 stacks, real quick). HGH is a decent way to do this too (Thrown elixirs).

What?

The Healing Turret can be placed in half a second. Dropping it procs Altruism’s 3 stacks of Might and Fury along with detonating it in Napalm for another Area Might. And Acid Bomb does A LOT of damage when you spec for Power and Critical Damage, doing over 2.5K damage a second on top of another Area Might.

It takes me literally no time at all to do this. Like two seconds.

By the way: Empower’s stacks of Might only last 10 seconds. Area Might stacks through Blast finishers last 20. So no: Empower is not a better option. I have a level 80 Guardian and use it more for its procs with Altruistic Healing than the Might itself. It disappears too fast.

Lupanic.6502:

in sPvP Bomb kit is very strong. Many people use it

For sure. I use it all the time in sPvP.

But I was talking about PvE.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Grenade kit does literally all of that. It stacks 14 vulnerability on average (25 spikes). 3 stacks of bleeding minimum every 6 seconds, great direct damage, burning from traits, chilled, poison and blind. Did I mention you’re 1,500 range away?

…And?

Air Blast is a 15 (or 12) second knockback/interrupt. It is the best one we have. Let me repeat that for you: It is the best knockback that Engineers have. It can additionally be used as a projectile reflect.

Napalm is tied with Hallowed Ground as the longest duration Fire field in the game—on a third of the cooldown. With a Hammer Guardian and myself we get our group to 18-21 stacks of Might no problem. But to you it’s not worth using. Apparently.

Smoke Vent may not offer a lot currently, but right now it is still a skill that can blind foes while we are stunned, which has saved me from being downed a lot more times than I can count.

Juggernaut gives 200 passive Toughness, which means you’re significantly more survivable with the Flamethrower than you are with the Grenade Kit when wearing full Berserker/Rampager gear.

You just are. Do you do as much damage? No. Of course not. Because the Flamethrower falls under “tanky DPS” while the Grenade Kit screams “glass cannon.” The Grenade Kit is the best ranged DPS in the entire game. Of course it will outperform the Flamethrower and it always should. If that’s your preference then continue to use the Grenade Kit. But don’t come on here, on the official forums, saying that the Flamethrower doesn’t offer any DPS at all—or that my DPS is “not helpful.”

It’s hyperbole.

Kamahl.3621:

This would be valid, if Bomb Kit didn’t do the exact same scenario better. I always just swap to BK and change out Shrapnel for larger radii, and mindlessly push 1 on top of my teammates. Hits 5 enemies instead of 3, for more damage, in a full 360 degree spread. Don’t have to turn, or reposition, or anything. Just make sure your bombs keep coming.

Because no PvE bosses require you to reposition yourself, ever. They all allow you to stand there and spam #1 over and over. Totally.

I like the Bomb Kit. I really do. I used it a lot while leveling. But once I hit level 80 and started running dungeons, it became a whole lot less efficient. I think that’s a conclusion most other players have made, because I don’t really see any Engineers use it. When I see a kit Engineer it’s either the Grenade Kit or the Flamethrower.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

2.25 seconds is the key. Grenades hit even second or so. Just the auto attack deals about 2k-3k damage. In two seconds, that’s 4k-6k damage. Grenade barrage throws in a 10k-14k damage. Shrapnel Grenade is about 6k easily.

It’s really no comparison. Not to mention, it’s 1,500 range.

…And?

No one is contesting that the Grenade Kit does better damage. I’m just not sure where you come from suggesting that the Grenade Kit is our only option for groups, or else our damage is “not helpful.”

It’s kind of funny, because I’ve been listening to this crap since October. The argument is always the same.

The Flamethrower does perfectly fine DPS. I’ve been farming CoE p1 the past couple weeks for Charged Lodestones and have consistently cleared it in about 30 minutes. Knowledge of content and player skill level has a lot more to do with successful dungeon runs than what build you’re using—especially when we’re talking about DPS.

Especially since I can defend the security module room by myself with the Flamethrower, having the other 4 people in my party disarming, I will just have to agree to disagree that the FT has any trouble dealing damage—across one target or several.

I also have to disagree with the other user above that suggested that spamming Flame Jet makes someone a noob. It applies consistent 5-6 stacks of Vulnerability and Bleed on top of good direct damage and Burning. Acid Bomb and Flame Blast are better options when they’re available, but when you’re traited to use the Flamethrower there’s nothing wrong with spamming the #1 skill waiting for other skills to recharge.

JubeiTM.5763:

Kamahl.3621:

In CoE, I was easily hitting for 12k with it on both parts, on a < 1 second cast time point blank.

Hahaha let’s get real. A pure berserker with all traits for flamethrower + 25 stacks of might + Omnomberry bar + potion of slaying a certain creature wouldn’t pass 6000….

In full Berserker with a 10/30/0/30/0 setup you should be seeing Flame Blast hit for 3K and then detonate for another 5K. At least. More than that if you’re stacking Bloodlust and then swap to Force in your off-hand.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

Define being “helpful.”

My Flame Jet regularly does 4-5K damage every 2.25 seconds at level 80, both inside and outside of dungeons. For an auto-attack skill, that’s about average. It’s not as good as a Warrior’s Axe but it’s certainly better than a Guardian’s Hammer.

Once you include Flame Blast, you’ll come to find that the FT’s damage output is more than satisfactory. You won’t top the charts, but the whole point of running it isn’t to be the damage dealer of the group. It naturally pairs well with the Elixir Gun since they both benefit by the same traits.

People run the FT/EG build because it’s a hybrid spec that offers extensive group support and reasonable DPS. Doesn’t matter what dungeon you’re doing: An FT/EG Engineer with a Hammer Guardian and content just becomes trivial. Nobody dies.

The Flamethrower as it is right now is perfectly fine and nothing really needs to be changed. I’d like it if Smoke Vent was a Smoke field and if Flame Blast was a Blast finisher, but there are bigger issues with the class right now (i.e., turrets and gadgets) I’d rather ArenaNet focus on.

Your ideas are nice, but please don’t suggest that the kit is broken and needs fixing. Many of us have been using it ever since we’ve hit level 80 and think the kit works extraordinarily well.

Sorry I guess I should have been clearer: I was talking about dungeons in regard to the mid-fielder comment.

MonMalthias.4763:

Best Light Field in game or not, the issue remains that Engineers lost an Oh Kitten button when Super Elixir was removed from Kit Refinement. Fumigate cleansing 1-2 conditions on self would bring EG back to the forefront.

In PvE I still use the Elixir Gun frequently with my Flamethrower setup. Acid Bomb does just too much damage to ignore, Poison is too useful against dungeon bosses, and Super Elixir has sometimes made the difference between the group going down or not. Never mind that Tranq Dart applies Weakness.

In sPvP/WvW, I agree it’s not as useful, and I will say that Healing Mist is one of the weaker toolbelt skills out there. It’s just a weaker version of Regenerating Mist. Have it AoE remove one condition on top of its Regeneration and I think that’s fine.

MonMalthias.4763:

Light Fields are pretty much the worst Combo Field you can try to combo with a Projectile Finisher right now. Even Ethereal Bolts in PvE is better. The reason for this is that the best Light Fields – Line of Warding, Sanctuary, Wall of Reflection – are best interposed between ourselves/allies and the enemy. Shooting through it does absolutely nothing, because our allies would be on the wrong side.

Which is why I continuously try to tell people that Super Elixir is the best Light field in the game. It’s used entirely for its existence as a Light field and regenerative healing, whereas Wall of Reflection and Line of Warding are used for their walls.

We are free to drop Super Elixir wherever we want to, to assure that the Ranger in the group has his projectiles pass through the Light field and hit the mob, cleansing conditions on targets within the vicinity of it. And it’s ten seconds long! Even with a 20% Projectile finisher you’ll get the job done. Pop Elixir U if you’re nervous.

And just to re-iterate for others, as there seems to be some confusion as to how they work: Projectile finishers do not affect the shooter. They affect those that are within range of the mob that is hit by the projectile. The easiest way to see this is with a Water field, which will provide Regeneration to the Guardian, Warrior, and yourself (if in range) but not the Ranger shooting from 1200 range with his Bow.

This is additionally why you should be playing your Engineer as the mid-fielder when not using the Grenade Kit.

Kalan.9705:

As long as there is 1 useable build left you’ll always find some forum hero who strokes his ego by saying everything is fine as long as his build is untouched.

So because I found a build I liked—with the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun—that hasn’t been nerfed into the ground and has actually been buffed, that makes me “some forum hero?”

I now use the Healing Turret more than ever. You guys complain that all they can do is tweak and adjust numbers, but they re-designed the way the Healing Turret works entirely. It was a weird adjustment at first but it’s way more conducive to how I play my Engineer now.

I now use Elixir U much more often, and competes for slots with Elixir R and Elixir B where they used to always just sit on my bar. It was recently buffed to always be a projectile wall, which really helps out a lot in many dungeons. Do you have any idea how nice it is to play a class that not only provides projectile walls, but also has Water fields, grants Might and Fury to my group, and can tank all with the same build?

You guys wanna sit here and moan about how the Grenade Kit was nerfed six months ago despite still being the best ranged DPS in the game, go for it. But don’t construe players like myself as being blind, manipulated, or simply those that “don’t get it.”

I have a level 80 Warrior and Guardian and an Elementalist at 47 that I’m working on. I do play other classes, tigirius. I still enjoy the Engineer more than any of them.

zaxon.6819:

ohh. you care about balance in pve.. sounds wierd. who cares about pve numbers. you guys must be in a panic sweat without dps meters.

Well, if everyone agrees that we’re uber powerful in PvP then what else is there to talk about?

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think I’d be fine with it launching you forward than knocking you back. As an escape option, that probably makes more sense.

Engineers use Acid Bomb as an escape option, and it launches you backwards.

I will use it as one sometimes. But it’s annoying having to turn around and face my target and then use it. Especially if I’m crippled/chilled.

I think I’d be fine with it launching you forward than knocking you back. As an escape option, that probably makes more sense.

lunyboy.8672:

That being said… some extra damage would be nice.

It would be nice, but is it necessary?

I run dungeons often. It’s how I prefer to play the game. I have a level 80 Warrior, Guardian, and Engineer. When I bring my Guardian to groups, everybody else benefits. Binding Blade -> Ring of Warding is one of the best cross-weapon combinations in the game that elevates the DPS of the group when eliminating trash significantly. Wall of Reflection is arguably the best projectile block in the game. The Hammer has a Blast finisher on a ridiculously short cooldown.

I bring so much more to groups on my Guardian than I do my Warrior, so when I see people complain that Warriors and their Hundred Blades do so much damage, I just roll my eyes. And of course playing a Guardian I would love to see my Hammer do more damage. I would like my Greatsword to do more damage. But like the Engineer, I have to ask: is it really necessary?

As an FT/EG Engineer, I’d always like to eke out a little more damage with Flame Jet. But with my setup I grant my group Might, Fury, and Regeneration every time I drop my Healing Turret, overcharging + Area Heal for a decent group heal.

I can then Regenerating Mist + Acid Bomb for another Area Heal when necessary. Or I can use Acid Bomb in Napalm for Might stacking. I can use Fumigate to remove conditions. I can use the Healing Turret to remove conditions. I can use thrown elixirs to remove conditions.

Like Guardians, Engineers are so much more than their DPS. You could say that a Warrior could be built similarly with a Sonic Boon build or something of the like, but they don’t have Water fields. They don’t have Light fields. They don’t have projectile walls. They can’t give their group Fury as consistently as an Altruism Rune Engineer swapping to the Med Kit does (Lung Capacity drops it to 20s, but Altruism gives Fury every 15s).

The Engineer is such a versatile, exciting class that it confuses me why anybody would even bother comparing us to such a stifling, simplistic class like the Warrior. I love my Warrior and I love its DPS, but if you ask me I’ll always take my Engineer over it unless the group needs DPS THAT badly.

Would I like it if Rocket Boots didn’t self-CC? Would I like it if Flame Blast was a Blast finisher? Would I like it if Engineers had a Whirl finisher outside of Elixir X?

Of course I would. I’d also like it if my Guardian sprout wings and could have perma Swiftness without being ensnared with Retreat and Save Yourselves in WvW. Some things just are intentional limitations to balance classes across the board.

Engineers are perfectly fine right now in my book.

Kimbald.2697:

Those seem not unreasonable to ask for.

They are when you consider what other classes have. Elementalists have a skill very similar to what you’re looking for: Lightning Flash.

But Lightning Flash has a 45 second cooldown versus Rocket Boot’s 30, isn’t a Blast finisher, and doesn’t have a toolbelt skill that additionally burns targets for 5 seconds.

You have to be mindful that given everything else the Engineer has, Rocket Boots is a very effective escape tool.

Smoke Bomb -> Rocket Boots sends you back 900 range and puts you in stealth. It’s saved me many times in WvW.

I think it’s reasonable to request the removal of the knockdown in the skill, but asking that it’s a targeted skill is a bit much. We already have Jump Shot, which is probably one of the most ridiculous Leap skills in the game and literally breaks Jumping Puzzles.

Jastorm.5972:

- A warrior can hit 9k damage with one button (kill shot, eviscerate, 100 blades) yet engi gets nerfed so they can’t use a 6k heal without interupt (elixer s)

I routinely see Hundred Blades do a lot more than 9K. More like 25K. And I wear Knight’s gear on my Warrior.

Jastorm.5972:

- A thief can spam 4.5k per heart seaker, yet engi can’t put down a turret and pick it back up for a 5 k heal…. (we have to put it down, hit the over charge.. then pick it back up)

We can use Bandage Self or Elixir H for a 5K heal (8K total for the Med Kit)

The Healing Turret is used as an alternative to Elixir-spec Engineers with Cleansing Formula 409 that additionally provides Regeneration and Area Heals to your allies.

I’m very happy with where the Engineer is at, but I guess I’m a part of the minority.

Also guys, keep in mind that while Flame Jet’s damage is mediocre, like Elementalists we are not intended to stand there and auto attack. Take advantage of the fact that Deadly Mixture buffs the Elixir Gun’s damage as well and integrate it into your skill rotation.

If I have a GS+Hammer Guardian in my group using Binding Blade → Ring of Warding, my Napalm → Acid Bomb → Flame Blast → Elixir U + Flame Jet x3 → Flame Blast rotation does A LOT of damage.

Acid Bomb alone was hitting for over 2.5K a second.

We facerolled through Molten Facility last night with two Guardians, an Elementalist, a Ranger, and myself. No Warriors. No Mesmers.

Daigle.8497:

As it stands, you need quite a lot of trait points to make the Flame Jet viable, and Napalm’s area of effect is quite small. I’ve seen enemies in PvE and PvP walk through it without taking their second of burning.

Napalm’s area of effect is small, but it’s a 10-second long Fire field. AFAIK, that’s tied for the longest one in the game with an unbuffed Hallowed Ground. Master of Consecrations makes it last 12 seconds, but it also has more than double (if not triple) the cooldown. And a weapon skill? Versus a utility slot?

I feel sometimes Engineers don’t realize how good we have it. A 10 second Fire field on a reasonable cooldown … With a Hammer Guardian in your group, that’s a lot of Might.

I very rarely use it for its Burning damage.

Yeah, I wear full Zerker with the Flamethrower in PvE. I’ll slap on Soldier insignia gear if I need the survivability … but I always have Berserker weapons and jewelry on. No exceptions.

It just does too low DPS without it.

In PvP I’ll go with Knight trinket though.

Seras.5702:

And you don’t notice all the lost potential power/prec/crit dmg from altruism runes that you could get from 6 rage runes for instance?

Rage gives a 5% chance to provide Fury when hit. On a 60 second cooldown. Its passive is an additional 15% Crit Damage under the effects of Fury.

Would I take giving my group Fury and 3 stacks of Might over 15% Crit Damage to myself?

Any day of the week.

Pretty much confirms my suspicions that Elixir H is for HGH builds only and is outperformed by Healing Turret and Med Kit for everything else.

I get what people are saying about the “active” style of the Med Kit versus chugging an elixir or dropping/detonating a turret, but the payoff is pretty extreme over a long fight.

The Healing Turret is most competitive in the fact that it grants 2 conditions removed every 20 seconds or so compared to the Med Kit’s 1 every 20 … and the Water field with coordination could outperform the Med Kit.

That said, proccing Area Heals is ultimately just as “active” if not more than the Med Kit, and Blast finishers are few unless you’re using gadgets which are the least played style these days. Maybe things will change in the future, but I’ll stick with the Med Kit for now for self-healing/buffs and the Healing Turret when the group needs the added support.

Excellent work. +1’d.

Seras.5702:

Thanks for the Altruism Rune advice. I’ll look into it. Like I said, I’m not very rune savvy. Not needing to trait for Enhanced Performance means I can throw some points into Tools for CD reduction on my goggle F1.

I have been thinking of switching to MedKit, based on this thread. Too hard to manage the Healing Turret without it dying and keeping it in range to be useful. However, based on the thread, drop-OC-detonate/pick up nets better healing over time anyway. So I’m going to try that. The idea though was to be able to hit 6 as often as possible, dropping the turret & overcharging it on CD for constant might stacks & water fields. But with it not surviving long, MedKit might be more reliable, and quicker to just pop into and out of the kit for Altruism procs.

Wow, that’s a really good thread. Never saw it in the list.

Kind of legitimizes my suspicion that Elixir H is really only good for lazy players and that the Med Kit offers better self-healing. It’s true the Protection boon helps, but it’s random and FT Engineers don’t need it.

We do, however, need Fury. And with Altruism + Drop Stimulant + Elixir B + Toss Elixir B you actually not only sustain Fury on yourself, but can stack it to over 1 minute in length. Utility Goggles can probably work much the same way, and the extra stunbreaker is nice. I just prefer Cleansing Formula to other options, because while I may not need it, my allies might. Toss Elixir B is just so good. Half the time I prefer running it over the Elixir Gun. It really depends on the content and the composition of the group. Especially if there’s no Ele, I have the Healing Turret and Elixir Gun on my bar. But if there’s a Guard and Ele in the group, I’ll swap to Med Kit and Elixir B and focus more on offensive buffs.

And yes: in my opinion Altruism is the best rune for Engineers in the entire game. I can’t think of one that is better across the board regardless of what build you use. We have such spammable heal skills and it plays into the support-but-still-DPS role the Engineer has in dungeon groups.

I run full Altruism on both my Soldier and Berserker armor sets so that I can swap them out as needed to bolster my survivability. It really makes a huge difference when you’re dealing with bosses that have invulnerability phases like in AC and CoE. For Great Justice only lasts 8 seconds … so a second person in the group applying Fury definitely makes a difference.

You could additionally run 2 Altruism + 4 Might Duration runes (i.e., 2 Hoelbrak, 2 Strength) but I find group Fury with 6 Altruism has way more mileage.

Seras.5702:

20/30/0/20/0

20 – V, X
30 – III, VIII, XI
0
20 – VI, VII
0

P/S
Healing Turret / FT / EG / Goggles / Supply Crate
Mix of Rampager & Berserker gear with some Vit & Tou & HP on accessories

After experimenting with various other build ideas (‘nades, bombs) I’ve come back to the FT for dungeons. I’m thinking high crit chance for procs and use of Super Elixir and Healing Turret for party-wide support. Also, wanted to avoid the over-used HGH and reliance on elixirs.

I’m at a loss for Runes & Sigils. Ideas? Thoughts on the build?

I think with the Healing Turret you’ll be safe without Cleansing Formula.

I just think rolling elixirs plays more into party-wide support. Utility Goggles will give you more damage than Elixir B, but Toss Elixir B is nice for buffing allies, especially when it gives Fury.

I guess it’s up to whether you prefer 10 stacks of Vulnerability or boons, but with zero points in Tools that 40-second cooldown for Analyze is really going to suck.

Also I don’t think Enhance Performance is really all that useful in PvE compared to 30 in Alchemy. If you want 3 stacks of Might on heal, slot 2 runes of Altruism into your gear, which will give 3 stacks of Might to both yourself and your allies. Run 6 and you’ll give them Fury too, which will further play into Energy Conversion Matrix. Some people say this setup only works well with the Med Kit, but I’ve since run the Healing Turret on my bar and find I drop and detonate it every 20 seconds anyway. It’s actually much easier stacking Altruism procs with an obvious timer.

I think this build could work, but it’s not how I’d run the FT/EG setup. I’m just rooted in my own ways though. Try it out in some dungeons and post the results.

JubeiTM.5763:

Seras.5702:

Anyone else have any critique? I really thought a FT build without elixirs would garner some discussion.

I don’t roll a condition damage build so I cannot use the EG well (besides healing).

Elixir Gun is good regardless of your stat allocation. Acid Bomb scales amazingly with Power.

Seras.5702:

You only chose to focus on one thing I said and completely ignored all the other points I made.

Just because I didn’t directly respond to every sentence you wrote, that doesn’t mean I ignored it. I’m just confused why people continue to say that Burning is the highest damage condition in the game when it’s not.

I know what Sharpshooter does. The numbers still don’t add up to where Condition Damage is worth stacking on the Flamethrower over Power and Critical Damage. You really should make a point to track how many more Bleed stacks you’re actually getting with Condition Duration weapons compared to Berserker weapons … and then watch how big Flame Blast crits get with full Berserker gear.

Why the Net Turret?

It’s only worth taking unless you’re traited for Sitting Duck.

Additionally, Energy Conversion Matrix (25 in Alchemy) means you do 1% additional damage per boon on you. This is worth a lot more than a 10% increase in Critical Damage. I’d argue it’s a must-have trait, especially for an Engineer build that is replete with boons.

Obscure One.4357:

My point was if I’m trying to squeeze out damage my thoughts are why am I not just hucking grenades on a zerk build? Spam tastic mind numbing DPS that it may be, there’s no more damaging option for the class. With a FT I’m better off ignoring boosting DPS for survivability options granted by the toughness or inventions trait lines with a spare 10 points, as even with the compounding impact of gaining 100 power and burning which gives my FT 10% more damage on Flame Jet, it doesn’t hit anywhere near the damage numbers of my grenades.

I get what you’re saying.

My point is more that the FT doesn’t need the defensive traits in Inventions. And bolstering the DPS of the Flamethrower is far more important to making it a competitive PvE option to the Grenade Kit.

Linc.6834:

Ah but Phineas burning scales best with condition damage out of all the conditions

But it cannot be stacked. Confusion can do over 2000 damage per skill activation. Bleeds do more than 1.5K DPS with the right build on top of your direct damage.

When have you ever seen Burning hit for 1.5K? Never. Even with 25 stacks of Might and full Rabid gear you won’t. In fact, the difference in Burning damage between Berserker and Rabid is literally a 300 difference.

You really think an increase of 300 damage in your burns is better than a 60%+ Critical Damage boost to your Flame Blast?

Obscure One.4357:

Hence the heavy synergy with Rifle. High volumes of Immobilize from a net turret and Rifle will help keep things still while you hit them with flame jet.

Unless…

1. Bosses have Defiant, which then you don’t do crap.
2. You prefer to use Pistol/Pistol, which actually has Blowtorch to improve burning a lot better than wasting a utility slot using Net Turret or focusing on the Rifle. Which gives you two sigils to boost your Flamethrower instead of one.

Obscure One.4357:

Though I must say that sort of build style makes the voice in my head scream “just Roll 30/30/0/0/10, put on your zerker set, and spam grenades!”. Honestly I can’t really say the FT is much use outside of might stacking off Enhance Performance (or H.G.H.) and Juggernaut and using it to tank damage lika bauwse.

I don’t see why anything I do should scream rolling 30 points in Explosives. I’m probably one of the biggest opponents to wielding the Grenade Kit “just because.” I find the Flamethrower a lot more fun and structured my Engineer around it for that reason. What “use” is there to the Flamethrower? A Fire field, 200 Toughness, and a non-self CC knockback on a 12-second cooldown for starters.

You guys feel free to do whatever you want. I’m just telling you that the numbers don’t add up when gearing for Condition Damage, and Incendiary Powder is a better trait investment than any alternative. I asked the question before and no one answered it: with 30 points in Firearms for Juggernaut, Target the Maimed, Fireforged Trigger, Precise Sights, and Sharpshooter … and with 30 points in Alchemy for Deadly Mixture, Energy Conversion Matrix, and Cleansing Formula … what do you gain putting 10 points elsewhere?

10 points in Tools gives you Speedy Kits, Static Discharge, or Kit Refinement. Incendiary Powder > Fire Aura, you already have good Swiftness with Drop Stimulant + Elixir B, and Static Discharge doesn’t get a lot of use without gadgets. 10% Critical Damage sounds appealing, but it’s not as significant as one might think compared to sustained 10% damage increase to Flame Jet and 100 Power.

10 points in Inventions gives you Low Health Response, Protective Shield, or Energized Armor. I’ll take a 10% sustained damage increase over 5% Toughness added to Power or Regeneration/Protection given the FT is tanky enough as-is.

Instead of lambasting Incendiary Powder, tell me what you would take instead, and show me how that’s a more viable option.

I see a lot of nay-sayers around here that don’t actually provide anything of substance. It’s easy being the dissenting opinion.

Jay.4837:

Incendiary Powder is really not necessary at all. Flame Jet burns once at the end of the cycle. If you follow flame jet with Air Blast, you’ll burn for another 3 seconds. I see too few engineers using Napalm, which is really your burn bread and butter, and even with mobile mobs will probably proc more burns than IP will.

The problem is that targets move.

If you’re dealing with bosses, Napalm and Air Blast is not enough. Try sustain burning on that guy in Arah exp without Incendiary Powder and see what happens.

Seras.5702:

And burning is the highest damage condition in the game.

I don’t know why people say this.

It has the highest base damage of conditions in the game of 328 at level 80. But adding to that is only factored by 25% of your Condition Damage value. So if you have 2000 Condition Damage in your gear, you’re only adding another 500 damage to your burn. Compare that to how much more damage you gain adding Power and Critical Damage in your gear.

The Flamethrower scales best with Power—specifically due to Flame Blast. The numbers have proven this time and time again. I don’t know why people continue to waste their money buying Rampager gear, especially since your stacks are just going to be overwritten by somebody else in Rabid gear in your PvE groups.

If you need Condition Duration, eat Rare Veggie Pizza and be done with it. Don’t waste a significant amount of damage trying to eke another second of burn wearing Giver’s weapons. What a waste!

galandor.1059:

I have a question,

Is Incendiary Powder still a must have with the FT after the altering of the trait?

Do you have any better alternatives?

More permanent burning means Flame Jet does more DPS. Where else would you put the other 10 points?

Unfortunately at the moment, turrets are best used situationally.

To give you an example: Net Turret is a really great choice if you’re speccing into Firearms for Sitting Duck. The Immobilization on itself is meh, but between the toolbelt and the turret itself, you can maintain 5-10 additional stacks of Vulnerabilty on your target. Pretty nice. In PvE, I would otherwise not use it.

I would also recommend picking one kit and traiting around it, rather than two. The only exception to this is the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun combination which benefit from the same traits. But to get the most out of the Tool Kit, Bomb Kit, and Grenade Kit, you have to specialize.

I also recommend keeping Short Fuse. 20% Cooldown Reduction = More Combo fields to boost your party. A 10% damage increase may help yourself, but there’s more to be gained laying down more Fire fields for Might stacking than solely improving your own DPS.

Seras.5702:

Being a fairly new 80 who is still gearing exotics, I’m often a bit overwhelmed by all the gear choices, stat allocation, prefixes, runes, sigils, etc. I like being able to change things up when I want some variety, so right now I’m shooting for Rampagers gear with a little Berserker gear thrown in, and then using my accessories for survivability (Soldier/Cleric/Sentinel). Not sure if this is the most effective way to go. As for Runes, I haven’t a clue. Right now I’m just using what comes on the gear as I acquire it until I know what’s best.

Rampager is not very appealing unless you’re focusing on Bleed stacking. Any Poison or Burning damage you apply to your target will simply be overwritten by someone wearing Rabid gear.

For the Bomb Kit, I think you should focus on Power and Critical Damage.

Yamsandjams.3267:

This makes 30 points in Tools less attractive than it already is.

Tools is plenty attractive if it suits your build. Keep in mind it additionally adds 30% Critical Damage.

Whenever I run with the Bomb Kit in PvE, I slot 25 points in Explosives and 25 in Tools. Way more damage than any alternative I’ve tested.

Seras.5702:

I’m looking for a new dungeon build too. Was leveling and running dungeons as a Juggernaut FT/EG user. Worked great but I didn’t like the constant range issues. I switched to grenades but that’s just senseless spamming and my finger was getting tired from stupid #1.

I’m going to try a bomb build. I don’t have any clerics gear to run a full support so I’m going power/cond. Thinking about bringing ToolKit along too (gear shield, magnet gap closer, another cripple/bleed, and prybar hits hard). Thoughts?

As an aside, I’m still working on all my exotic gear. I have karma. Where do I go to get the karma armor I want? Namely, Rampagers.

My problem with Pry Bar—and Confusion in general—is that it is so situationally useful. I love it as a burst condition in PvP/WvW, but it’s not something I’d construct my build around in PvE.

If you guys are going to use bombs, you need to have a Soldier set on hand. I’m not saying you need to always wear it, but it’s very helpful to have.

I would say that Warrior has some very interesting traits that make the class more interesting, yes.

But if you’re seeking an experience similar to the Engineer in complexity, you won’t find one. The Warrior is a very simple class.

For example: they don’t have to babysit their turrets; they just drop a banner and forget about it. The full extent of what they’ll do is pick it up and use Inspire for group Swiftness, Furious Rally with the Banner of Discipline for group Fury, or Plant Standard for a Blast finisher.

I don’t meant to imply that the class is “easy” necessarily. I would say playing Guardian is infinitely easier, and a much better experience in PvP and WvW—the latter of which could be similarly stated for Engineers.

But Warrior is very good at DPS, and it’s very good at offensive boon support. If that’s what you’re into, try leveling it up a bit more. I certainly love mine, but Engineer is and always will be my “main.” There’s things the Engineer can do that a Warrior simply cannot, which happen to similarly be my preferred style of play.

You should unlock the Fast Hands trait (15 in Discipline) before you conclude that Warrior is boring.

Swapping between your weapon sets (i.e., Axe/Mace and Greatsword) every 5 seconds is actually very enjoyable, and not that much different from the experience of a multi-kit Engineer. And if by boring stat boosts you mean 8+ stacks of Might and Fury, yeah, I guess so. Warrior is very good at what it does: offensive buffs.

But no matter what build I’m running on my Warrior, I always have that trait. It’s just so good. I wish Guardian had something similar.

IgnisVulpesXI.3015:

I do recall however being out of any kit when I transformed, maybe being transformed while having a kit on causes the problem?

I can confirm that this is not the case. I ran AC p3 twice the past couple days, and the first time I got nailed with it while wielding my Flamethrower. Thinking similarly to you, the second time I ran p3, yesterday, I unequipped my kit and waited to be transformed.

I still had “Locked” replace my healing skill and my utilities, with “Exit Transformation” replacing my elite (which did nothing when clicked/pressed).

FWIW: the Ranger in my group had the same thing happen to him, so this is not an Engineer-only issue.

Manuhell.2759:

We’ve got exactly a single projectile wall, with toss elixir U, at an higher cooldown than the guardian’s one (we must spend 30 points to get a similar cooldown).

So? 1>0, which is how many a Warrior has. Never implicated that an Engineer is comparable to a Guardian in that regard.

Manuhell.2759:

We can only get or give protection at random with elixir H, or in response to certain events (due to traits).

Randomization is still better than not at all. Toss Elixir H can grant either Protection, Regeneration, or Swiftness. I’ll be inclined to admit that Swiftness is often not entirely useful, but Protection and Regeneration are both often helpful to one’s group, especially if you’re curing a condition and granting a stack of Might at the same time—you know, traits people actually take.

Manuhell.2759:

Banners can have a range that is almost double the one of the healing turret, give other passive bonuses as well and can be moved freely without being destroyed by enemy attacks.

Banners don’t have a Water field, cure two conditions, grant Regeneration, or can be detonated for an Area Heal. The Healing Turret has always been one of the best supportive skills across all classes in the entire game. And now it can be overcharged almost instantaneously along with Regenerative Mist’s reduced cooldown.

Most importantly, Inspiring Battle Standard is a crappy trait compared to other options that you have. You might as well run Zealous Blade on a Guardian or Automated Response on an Engineer.

If you seriously run with that, you need to re-trait. There are better options.

I’m done feeding the trolls.

Manuhell.2759:

In the end, even a warrior can support allies better than us.

I laughed.

Sonic Boon is a good build, but a Warrior has no projectile walls, no Light fields, no Water fields, and no Protection. And to give Regeneration they have to trait into Inspiring Battle Standard, which is halfway up the Tactics tree. More importantly, no shout build is going to use banners.

This myth that Warriors can do everything is propagated by people who have no experience playing the class, mostly fueled by internet hysterics like yourself who suffer from awful inferiority complexes.

Level a Warrior, get it to 80, play it in dungeons, and say again that a Warrior can do everything an Engineer can.

I love my Warrior. I love its DPS. But suggesting that they provide better support than us is utter effing bullspit.

jniel.3581:

We have never pulled our weight in PVE and we pull far less now. Just roll a Mesmer, Guardian or Warrior.

Engineers have the best sustained Condition Damage of all classes. The Pistol is the only weapon in the entire game that has access to 4 different damage conditions. And once you combine that with the Tool Kit for added Confusion, the Grenade Kit for added Bleeds, the Flamethrower for added Burns, or the Bomb Kit for Combo fields, our role in parties is pretty well healthily defined.

I still roll a Power-based build most of the time because I love the Flamethrower too much, but neither Guardians nor Warriors are effective Condition Damage classes, and neither is the Mesmer. You’re better off comparing the Engineer to other Condition Damage classes like Necromancer—and then ask yourself, what, beyond our Condition Damage, do we bring to parties? We have bar none the best group condition removal in the game, some of the most elaborate combo fields, including a 10-second Light field that heals allies and cures conditions without the need for any traits.

I have rolled a Warrior and a Guardian. They’re both excellent classes at what they do. One Guardian brings so much defensive boons and projectile reflects to a group that it is a night and day experience for Warriors—speaking from personal experience having played one in dungeons as well. But the same could easily be said of Engineers.

I give my group Regeneration. I give my group Fury. I give my group Might. I remove their conditions. I snare bosses so the glass cannons aren’t getting destroyed. I poison bosses so their regenerative skills mean much faster content clears (i.e., CoF and CoE).

Engineers bring plenty to the table to groups for PvE. It’s just about identifying what gaps there are in your group and filling them. That’s what the Engineer does.

jniel.3581:

No, engineers are just inferior you just don’t fully realize just how bad we suck nerf until you play another profession under similar circumstances.

I have a level 80 Guardian and level 80 Warrior, arguably the two strongest professions in PvE right now.

I still take my Engineer into dungeons all the time.

Nobody dies. The sky doesn’t fall. The world does not end.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They obviously don’t want engineer to have a high burst damage or have good sustained damage either.

I have to disagree with this. The Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit both have very good sustained damage. And Static Discharge has great burst damage.

They just took issue with 100nades, doing tons of damage by literally pressing two buttons. Warriors can do this with Hundred Blades, sure, but that requires you being immobilized in place and is a cleave versus AoE.

If you’re using a lot of on-crit traits I recommend slotting more Precision into your gear, so going Soldier and Carrion may not be enough (which is why I like Rabid jewelry in WvW).

Manuhell.2759:

Everything we can do, other classes can do better.

You suffer from a pretty awful inferiority complex.

rivx.3267:

All I’m saying is if the original intent was a low damage high toughness class shouldn’t the damage been tweaked a little when that extra armor was taken?

Not sure I see what armor has to do with damage output. Warrior is one of the best DPS classes in the game and they have the highest health pool and armor value.

In WvW/sPvP, you’re going to want to aim toward a mix of Power and Condition Damage. You’re not really going to be competing with anybody for stacks, so you don’t need to specialize like you have to in PvE.

I like running Soldier insignia armor with Rabid jewelry, but Carrion is another popular choice.

Manuhell.2759:

And that’s why we are so sought over in PvE and everyone wants an engineer in their party for high level fractals and such things. /sarcasm

Now tell us how you really feel.

rivx.3267:

And now we wear med armor and do the same damage or less. (nerfed)

The armor difference between heavy and medium armor is literally 147 Toughness.

I prefer that the Engineer is a medium armor class. Trenchcoats fit Engineers more than plated shoulders.