Guild Wars 2

I think someone was right when they said that Living Story so far has been relatively shallow, if not entirely stereotypical. We regularly see villains like Canach and Scarlet that have very little back story established, that appear out of nowhere and/or are evil simply for evil’s sake. Compared to the moral gray area in the war between Charr and Human, Shiro’s tortured soul or how in Nightfall the ends may or may not have justified the means (helping Palawa Joko) I find Guild Wars 2’s Personal Story and Living Story way too simplistic. But I think Guild Wars 2 is better in a lot of ways, and do believe it is an overall better product.

The combat in Guild Wars 2 is preferential to me. I didn’t mind what Guild Wars 1 had, but 2’s more active style of play is very refreshing to me in a genre littered with stationary boss battles (which Guild Wars 1 had plenty of). I think it’s the number one reason why I continue to play it, since I can’t find a game with a combat system as attractive to me as this one that promotes mobility while still feeling like a “numbers game” RPG. I simply find Guild Wars 2’s combat more engaging than its predecessor’s.

But the other big reason is the open world. Guild Wars 1 was full of invisible walls and instanced content. There was some really powerful scenery in that game, like trekking across the Desolation for the first time or seeing the Jade Sea frozen completely. But unless I was doing a mission, I never really got a chance to just “hang out” in it all and absorb the scenery. Whether or not you can reduce it to hammering signs or killing the same world bosses forever and ever, Guild Wars 2 simply gives you reason to return to locations all around the map, making it feel much more alive.

I’m very happy with Guild Wars 2, and I look forward to what the next year has in store. Just my two cents.

katniss.6735:

Will we get to put that 3% magic find on celestial items into a stat of our choosing?

I would totally put it into crit damage.

I salvaged my mf set when I finished my celestial set. It seems a shame to lose it altogether, but if we do, I want to decide on how, not just lose it and gain nothing.

Even without Magic Find, Celestial still has more overall stats than any other insignia. So the “loss” will not affect its viability. It’s already ridiculously powerful on Engineers and other classes with builds that actually utilize both conditions and direct damage, especially when roaming in WvW.

So I just wanted to say that playing my Engineer today, I noticed that my Attack value didn’t change swapping between my pistol and my kits.

The Attack value remained the same—3,106—when swapping between my Pistol/Shield and the Flamethrower. Considering that “Attack” is adding your Power and maximum Weapon Strength together, and that kits originally had 969 Strength to the Pistol’s 1,029 … this number shouldn’t stay the same. There was a difference when equipping the rifle or an offhand pistol, though.

Thoughts?

Decklan.7540:

Once again, you are twisting my words. I never once said that anet has an interest in streamlining or redesigning the engineer.

Okay.

Decklan.7540:

I am sorry if this disheartening, but it’s true. And as much as I love the engineer to death, and think its class mechanic is the most fun thing in the game, arena net will eventually reach a breaking point with this profession and just redesign it all together.

What am I twisting?

Decklan.7540:

Do you spend the time and money to make ascended weapons function the same way as they would with the other 7 professions or do you just, as I said above, change the bell pepper to lettuce?

That would depend on what that change would be. ArenaNet has already dedicated a lot of time to reworking gadgets and turrets, and has additionally spent a lot of time working on kits so they each play to their respective strengths. Again: their track record indicates that they have no qualms about dedicating time to fixing issues with the Engineer any more than they do with other classes, so again I’m asking: what makes you think they’d grow tired of it?

It’s not like the Engineer is the only class with problems. How long was Perfect Inscriptions bugged before they fixed it? How long did it take them to fix the stacking issues with Symbol of Swiftness? All classes have suffered from problems, and some of them still suffer from some very large balance issues, like Stronger Bowstrings, a trait that is intended to increase the range of Warrior Bow attacks, doesn’t work with Arcing Arrow and actually reduces the damage of your Dual Shot by 10%.

Fact is: we have no idea what’s going to happen when Ascended weapons come out. Kits could just as easily be considered Ascended on patch day, given that kits currently are automatically considered to be of the highest quality available for each level—at 1 or 80.

Decklan.7540:

You took those words and turned them into a personal dissection of my comment when all I did was give the OP a reason WHY they would redesign the class not that they WILL redesign the class.

In fact, if you read the entire post you will see at the end that I would much prefer our class to stay as it is.

I never insinuated that you wanted any of these changes; you simply produced a scenario that ArenaNet might grow tired of patching a class that composes “less than 10%” of the population, to which I’m responding to by asking: why, exactly?

amiable.4823:

The real question is how they would bring the class in line with others?

Why do you think the Engineer is not already in line with other classes?

Decklan.7540:

Would you have rather me said that the engineer was one of the least played classes along with the Mesmer?

I would rather you recognize that the population of a class has no basis on its actual importance to ArenaNet or their desire to improve them.

One year later, Warriors are the most played class in the game and they’re still well entrenched at the lowest rung of the ladder in tPvP.

Mesmers and Engineers may be the least created classes in the game, but that means little in recognition that Mesmer has always had a rock solid foundation in high-end PvE and that Engineer is one of the top professions in PvP in bunkering, roaming, and assaulting.

You insinuate that because Engineers compose 10% of the gaming population that ArenaNet will one day prefer to just streamline its mechanics, but there’s no basis for that conclusion. At all.

Decklan.7540:

Cut due to word count

I understand this thread is about the Engineer profession and not Rangers, but your assertion that developers would begrudgingly work on fixes that affect one class conflicts significantly with their track record.

They reworked Retaliation precisely because of how easily Guardians can stack it, and have acknowledged that they’re still not satisfied where the boon is at. They reworked Confusion in World v World precisely because of how easily Mesmers and Engineers compile it.

You may claim that tweaking a few stat values isn’t an overhaul, but tweaking a couple numbers would fix the majority of issues people have about Engineers as a class—least of all how easily an Engineer can die to Retaliation, or how quickly our turrets get destroyed.

Decklan.7540:

Phineas Poe.3018:

They’ve put a lot of work into this class, a lot more than you’re giving them credit.

When did I say that they’ve put little work into this class? My entire post was about them being forced to spend extra time on us because we are so different from every other profession in the game. You really need to stop twisting my words to try to rile me, it’s rude and impolite.

I’m not twisting your words to “rile you up.” I just don’t understand where you get the idea that ArenaNet has any interest in streamlining professions when they’ve put so much work into the Engineer. If my responses offend you, then maybe you should take a lap and re-read what I’m saying.

Also, just because I don’t think it was mentioned, while the Blast finisher activates where you land, you do not have to launch from or land into a combo field for it to count. You simply have to pass through one.

An example of this would be the Flamethrower/Elixir Gun Might stacking rotation, where you drop Napalm, Acid Bomb within Napalm, sending you back 400 range, and then using Rocket Boots, sending you through Napalm and landing on the other side, triggering a second Area Might stack.

Carighan.6758:

Well, yes, as far as effectivity goes. But I highly doubt the majority – or even a significant portion – of a MMO’s players cares about that. They enjoy a game for what it offers as a pure form of entertainment mixed with a very heavy dose of social interaction.

One of the ways I talk people into trying GW2 is by highlighting how bite-sized the content is, and that’s exactly what entices them and enchants them to stay with it. But in turn, the focus on levelling and on “max level gameplay” is so small that they basically don’t care. Sure, they hit 80 on their own. But there’s no “Must… level… now!” like in many other MMOs.

Hence I wouldn’t discard the sub-80 characters really.

Guild Wars 2 is definitely a game that is just as much about the journey as it is about the destination, but I’m not sure I would agree with you that level 80 has very little meaning because of that.

There is a new dungeon you can run every 5 levels, but the best rewards for each dungeon are the level 80 exotics. There’s level-specific rares for each dungeon, but those are only worthwhile when you’re equal to the level of the dungeon itself … not that there’s anything special about them. The unique skins are only available for level 80 characters. You can take lower level characters into fractals as well, but unless you’re level 80 you cannot compile any Agony Resistance in your gear.

And a word about Guild Missions: unless you’ve actually explored a majority of the world on a high level character, you’re going to have a really bad time. I often run missions for my guild and sub-80 players are at many times left behind or significantly slow down the run because they don’t have waypoints unlocked. It’s just a sub-optimal experience for everyone.

As fun as dynamic events and world bosses are, they’re relatively trivial by design. You stand there and attack. Most meaningful content, including the Living Story, is balanced around level 80. PvP is balanced around level 80. Just because it sidekicks you to that level, it doesn’t change that fact. I’m not trying to “discard” anyone; I just find it hard to believe that Rangers are the second-most played profession in the game. A character leveled to 80 versus a character made, reaching level 2, and then never touched again are considered equal in “population” by that count.

Engineers aren’t a popular class. I don’t know how much of that has to do with our issues with Retaliation so much as that the average player picking up Guild Wars 2 just isn’t into the aesthetics of the Engineer in a game that offers more traditional fantasy achetypes. That classes like Warrior and Ranger are the most often chosen, or that Weaponsmithing is the most often chosen profession doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.

I just don’t think that it’s actually representative of the active player population.

Decklan.7540:

Lets just say you are a Guild Wars 2 developer. The team finally balances out and designs all of these great new ascended weapons. All of that work that was put in to create these weapons should be done at that point right? The answer is no. You still have to come up with an idea on how to implement these weapons for a single class, the Engineer. After hours of brainstorming, you might just give up, and task your team towards other goals, as spending copious amounts of time for less than 10 percent of your player population is not conducive to a happy player base.

If you’re using that infographic they released the other day as your source on Engineers composing 10% of player population, that number is based off characters created. There’s just no way that Guardians are equal to Necromancers in player population at level 80, or that Rangers are the second-most played profession.

I have a Ranger. He’s level 20. I have a Guardian. He’s level 80. In the eyes of that chart, they’re both equally a part of the population, though.

As for spending “copious amounts of time” for one class, I think they’ve already done that. They overhauled Ranger pets, didn’t they? And that was only one class mechanic. What makes you think that Engineers will be treated any differently? Sigils not working with kits was a major flaw with the class. It only affected our class. They still fixed it. Turrets, too, have received a plethora of fixes over the past few months. They still die too easily, yes. But the Healing Turret is now just as often used as the Med Kit is. Doesn’t that say something? They’ve put a lot of work into this class, a lot more than you’re giving them credit. They revamped most of our gadgets a couple months ago, making Rocket Boots one of the best escape tools across all classes in the game. And it’s a Blast finisher.

Engineers are in a very good place right now, and that was done by spending copious amounts of time on us.

Seras.5702:

So I can’t bring P/S for an extra blast finisher with my FT build?

Who says you can’t? Even if they made this change, I would continue to use the P/S for a lot of situations.

Even right now, if you care about maximizing the damage of your FT build, you should be swapping to your Rifle and fitting in a Blunderbuss or Jump Shot as often as you can, since you’re already at 400 range or less.

In other words, taking the Rifle already means more damage for your overall build. This change would just affect the damage of the FT too, but marginally. The other reason this re-work would work is because if you took the Weapon Strength of your Pistol/Rifle when wielding the FT, you could also take the Armor of your Shield, which would be really nice on top of Juggernaut.

They should just eliminate all kit Weapon Strength and have them work on the Weapon Strength of your weapons. In one move they’d not only buff all kits’ Weapon Strength from 969 to something better, but they’d also give us a legitimate reason to go after Ascended weapons.

Decklan.7540:

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Med Kit is better…

This is quite the blanket statement you have here. I am sure if he is heading towards organized group play they would much more enjoy Healing Turrets incredibly large water field over Med Kits better personal healing capacities.

Don’t take my words out of context.

I said that the Med Kit is better when you take Healing Power into consideration, because Bandage Self scales by 100% while the Healing Turret only scales by 50%.

And considering the title of the thread includes “Solo Roaming WvW,” I’m pretty sure he’s not concerned with organized group play.

If you’re looking for a good DPS build, I recommend 30/X/X/X/30 with the Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, and whatever else. Put 10 in Alchemy if you want Vigor. Otherwise, run 10 in Firearms. 30/25/X/X/X is also pretty popular, but I personally think 30 Tools does more damage. Up to you, really. You can also go without the Grenade Kit entirely if you’re not a fan of how it works. Bomb Kit centric builds are generally 25/25/0/0/20 or 25/20/0/0/25.

If you’re looking for a good support build, I recommend X/20/X/20/X with the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun. These days when running FT/EG I go 0/25/0/20/25 for the maximum potential DPS of both kits. Though the build is more about condition removal and Might stacking, the damage output is quite good.

Sabull.5670:

Your argumentation is from point of view of what is highest DPS.

I was under the assumption that was what the OP was looking for.

Decklan.7540:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Would be nice if they just re-designed kit damage entirely and had the Weapon Strength of your Rifle/Pistol be the modifier, and not the Weapon Strength of your kit.

May not be the simplest fix, but it is the cleanest, while still giving incentive for acquiring Ascended weapons.

Since the last one was deleted, here is why I think this would be bad. If they scaled off weapon power, then in power based kit builds, it would be mandatory to take a rifle if you wanted to max dps, instead of opening up more build diversity by allowing people to take something like pistol/shield, have access to a blast finisher, but not have to give up the incredible 15 percent damage increase they would get if they equipped a rifle.

I don’t see how it’s any different than it already is. What damage options does the Pistol have for a Power-based build? Poison Dart Volley may do 5-6K in my Zerker/Scholar gear, but that’s pretty much the extent of its raw damage. Explosive Shot is just plain awful, and Static Shot is better used for its Blind than Confusion in most situations, imho.

Compare that to what the Rifle offers with Blunderbuss, Jump Shot, and Overcharged Shot, and it’s really not hard to see that the maximum DPS potential for many Engineer builds is already about wielding the Rifle. The fact is that most players just prefer the Shield anyway for its incredible utility and defensive measures—and I’ll take a Blast finisher over a Leap finisher any day of the week.

And is this about improving build diversity, or improving the damage of kits and keeping them in league with Ascended weapons?

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

I don’t care about boons at all. I don’t have boons on my ranger.

Um, Call of the Wild much?

Daywolf.2630:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leaving engineer out for the time being only because I’ve not had a chance to play mine and it would be unfair to rank her without experiencing her gameplay for myself.

Just my 2c

goes like this
equip nade kit
1234511111111111111111111111111111111111111111112341111111111111111111111
11111111111111111111111111111151111111111111111111111111111111111111

You don’t have to use the Grenade Kit. And by the way: you should always use Freeze Grenade (4) first in your rotation.

OP: I think Engineer is the most entertaining class in the game by a wide margin. It’s not just fun to play, it’s fun to theorycraft and test new builds.

There’s a lot of different ways you can take your Engineer, and there’s considerable depth to it, perhaps more than any other class. I do also love the Warrior and Guardian, but they are very simplistic. Even if you’re a DPS Guardian, you’re still going to be using many of the same utilities as you would if you were an Anchor/AH Guardian. This really can’t be said of Engineer builds; they’re really quite diverse.

Sagramor.7395:

I meant when you activate Rocket Boots (not the toolbelt) it stops you briefly at the end of the animation. Something that actually needs a fix, unlike anything in the OP.

Yeah, it seems to lock up similar to how Jump Shot used to. I’m sure they’ll get to cleaning it up soon.

Sagramor.7395:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Decklan.7540:

This thread will basically be an open discussion on how to buff our non-condition based builds.

Why do they need to be buffed?

^This

Why don’t you put pressure on fixing stuff that is broken like Rocket Boots instead of dreaming up fixes to problems that don’t exist?

If your biggest gripe with Static Discharge is a 1/4-1/2 sec cast time on toolbelt skills, which I don’t recall ever being an issue in the past, then the build is in a pretty good place.

Nooooooo. I love the burning on its toolbelt skill, meaning I can run the FT without Incendiary Powder or a pistol offhand (Blowtorch). And it cleaves, which is nice.

Unless you were talking about cleaning up the animation for its utility skill?

Knockout.4530:

I’m a huge fan of the Healing Turret and I would edit my last post to say that the Med Kit isn’t better than the Healing Turret at high levels of healing power but makes a much better case to be used (outside of Fury).

The Med Kit is better. Both Healing Turret activations scale by 50% of your Healing Power. Bandage Self scales by 100%. You could make the case for Blast/Leap finishers providing Area Heals, but those too only scale by 20% of your Healing Power.

With zero Healing Power, both heal roughly the same, with a slight advantage given to the Med Kit thanks to Drop Bandages. But when you compile more Healing Power into your gear through stuff like Celestial armor and Altruism runes, the Med Kit really pulls away.

You’re right about the Healing Turret being better at cleansing conditions, however. The Med Kit only cures one condition per Drop Antidote. I don’t think that’s a bug, and I believe that is working as intended. The tooltip is just poorly worded.

Use the Med Kit when you need more direct healing. Use the Healing Turret when you need more condition removal.

Decklan.7540:

Analyze: Instant Cast, low cooldown, no actual damage (other than the SD proc), vuln stack.
Suprise Shot: Instant Cast, low cooldown, high damage.
Launch PBR: Instant Cast, moderate cooldown, moderate damage, cripple.
Net Attack: Instant Cast, moderate cooldown, low or no actual damage (still debating), immobilize.
Rocket: Instant Cast, low cooldown, high damage.
Throw Napalm: A complete change from a ground targeted aoe, to a single target aoe explosion, moderate cooldown, moderate damage.

I’m confused. Most of these are already instant cast or close to it. I know for a fact that Analyze and Surprise Shot are both instant cast, and both Rocket and Launch PBR only have a 0.25 second activation.

But why do you think Launch PBR should only deal moderate damage? It has almost twice the cooldown of Surprise Shot with less range, so it should dish out more. As it stands right now it’s actually the second best ranged toolbelt activation we have, behind only Throw Wrench. But because Surprise Shot’s cooldown is so short, there’s still not much reason to take PBR aside from having an additional launch from the utility skill.

Decklan.7540:

This thread will basically be an open discussion on how to buff our non-condition based builds.

Why do they need to be buffed?

Would be nice if they just re-designed kit damage entirely and had the Weapon Strength of your Rifle/Pistol be the modifier, and not the Weapon Strength of your kit.

May not be the simplest fix, but it is the cleanest, while still giving incentive for acquiring Ascended weapons.

krixis.9538:

grenade kit is designed to be ground target to compensate for its very high dmg output

How so?

The Bomb Kit’s auto attack does more damage than the Grenade Kit’s #1 skill.

Sabull.5670:

I’m talking about soloings, where ever.

You’ll get most damage out of flamethrower by using Sigil of Earth and mixed gear setup.
It’s not enough conditions to go all out but neither for power unless you mix it with stuff like SD and rifle rotations.

I’d really like to see how you’re coming to this conclusion. Static Discharge, Blunderbuss, and Jump Shot are all negligible, considering they’re not related to the Flamethrower at all. But you’re right to say that using that stuff with a Power FT build just makes the distinction more obvious.

The question is: Do you gain more stacking for Power to increase Flame Blast than you gain stacking Condition Damage to increase burning? And the answer has always been in favor of Flame Blast and stacking Power.

And how do you figure that Sigil of Earth is the best sigil for the FT? It’s literally one stack of bleed every Flame Jet. You’re adding, at most, 100 DPS to your build.

100.

Compared to something like Sigil of the Night, which increases your damage output by 10%, I don’t see how you can conclude that mixing Condi/Power + Sigil of Earth is best in slot for an FT Engi that (1) stacks bleeds horribly on the whole and (2) deals with burns entering a queue.

With Berserker + Scholar runes, your Flame Blast will dish out over 10K damage between both hits.

Sabull.5670:

Mixing in Celestial works very well if you add in Elixir Gun. 10/30/0/20/10 or 10/20/0/30/10.
FT/EG/RB+rifle or P/S, healing turret. Constant short reapplying Burning with 3-5 different sources (counters cleansing), medium bleeds with FT1 and EG3, and 1-2 poison sources.
It plays whole different than the usual engi styles so it’s quite fun to play around if you have good balanced set.

I agree that Celestial does work very well for the FT/EG combo, especially when roaming in WvW. But it’s definitely a damage loss compared to full Berserker, especially when you factor in Acid Bomb from the Elixir Gun. For PvE, I just cannot in good faith recommend wearing it.

Ghoulina.2976:

As for story modes, don’t bother, you don’t get tokens for that. Just to exp modes, they’re really not that bad.

You shouldn’t repeatedly run story modes, but you should definitely do each of them at least once. You may not get any tokens for doing them, but you do get a lot of achievement points.

Besides, don’t just assume you’re always going to be with someone else who has story mode done, especially if it’s a less commonly ran dungeon like Sorrow’s Embrace or Caudecus’ Manor.

Sagramor.7395:

You may have to do a little digging since the search essentially useless, but there are plenty of guides and builds right here.

You could also check out places like gw2guru (forum), intothemists (guides only), etc.

Yeah, search feature is still buggy, and these forums move a bit too fast for anything not pinned to the top of the folder to stay around.

As someone who wrote their own guide on Guru and IntoTheMists, I recommend looking at either of those two sites rather than here. There are a lot of viable WvW/PvE builds out there. Just a matter of what you like.

Nerdwing.2461:

Heya. Since Engineers arent… so great at the moment, I’ve relegated mine to farming duty now.

What.

Nerdwing.2461:

Is there any specific farming spec that is a cut above the rest? My current spec is flamethrower based with some restorative capabilities from what I recall.

Flamethrower, Grenade Kit, and P/S or P/P with Coated Bullets are our ideal farming builds. Coated Bullets actually has no cap to how many targets you can tag, so it is theoretically the “best” tagging option … but enemies have to be fairly well clustered for that to work.

I generally prefer using the Flamethrower over the Grenade Kit when it comes to most farming situations. The lack of an auto-attack just gets cumbersome after a while.

Kalan.9705:

Halve it’s duration, double it’s heal per tick, make it a 5sec water field.

Super Elixir already impact heals for 700 + 40% of your Healing Power and pulse heals for 2040 + 100% of your Healing Power. You asking to have this pulse heal doubled/halved arguably makes it better, since you’re getting that 2040+ health back in half the time.

By making it a Water field, too, you’re substantially increasing the healing potential. Blasts and Leaps in Water fields heal for 1320 + 20% of your Healing Power, and Projectile finishers grant 2 seconds of Regeneration per proc.

With Fireforged Trigger, this gives you a skill that potentially gives back 4000 health every 16 seconds, and that’s with zero Healing Power. To you and anybody immediately around you. It would effectively be a second heal for Engineers, and I think that’s a bit too good for a weapon skill.

Besides, a Light field may not be proper for PvDoor situations, but it is immensely useful for both condition removal and Retaliation in other situations in WvW and elsewhere.

Terrahero.9358:

All in all it seems like a fair trade, but i still cannot understand why it isnt an Evade aswell. Getting CCd, crippled, immobilized, pulled while blasting away is just stupid. Getting immobilized just after the ability fires is essentially a self-Stun.

I don’t think there is a single leap skill that is also an evade.

Ride the Lightning, Savage Leap, Heartseeker, etc. etc. all work the same way. At least ours actually cures Immobilized, Crippled, and Chilled rather than be affected by it.

Bloodgruve.6038:

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

It should be doing a lot more DPS than that, even without Deadly Mixture.

How did you come to reach this number? How were you testing this?

ShadowPuppet.3746:

I didn’t mean it as a criticism of your build or it’s intent.

Oh, I know. I was actually elaborating on your own point.

Juggernaut is worth using when you’re primarily focused on wielding the Flamethrower. If you’re not, such as simply firing off Flame Blast as a part of a DPS chain with Static Discharge, it probably is better to take something else, like Rifle Mod.

I did mean what I said, though: I don’t think a build that simply uses the Flamethrower for Flame Blast is really an “FT build,” which is what the OP seems to be looking for.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Is energy conversion matrix per each boon or per each unique boon (same way mesmer’s iWarlock functions)? I have a feeling it is per each unique boon otherwise it seems ridiculously overpowered compared to any other flat damage boost trait in the game.

It’s per unique boon, so 25 stacks of Might is considered “one” boon in the eyes of Energy Conversion Matrix, similar to Warrior’s Empowered.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Having said that, the trait distribution that phin uses 0/25/0/20/25 is really the best trait distribution (assuming that ecm is per unique boon) for doing damage with the ft, I suppose I should have made that clearer in the post I made, that it’s the trait distribution that makes it “ideal” for such a role. The build you have linked would still work in such a trait distribution, you simply would need to either drop juggenaut (which is of questionable value in a organized group as another poster mentioned), or drop the cd reduction on rifle. What you gain is faster toolbelt recharges for sd, 10% more crit damage (which works out to only about 4% increase in actual damage value) and a true 10% damage increase at full endurance and gives you the ability to have constant vigor with the addition of speedy kits.

edit: also as a sidenote if you drop jugg. it won’t require you to stay in the ft to use it’s auto which, is just so very blah for actual dps numbers compared to just about any other auto in the game, this is of course assuming your party is able to stack might effectively.

Keep in mind the purpose of my build and my thread is for players that want to use the Flamethrower and want the optimal setup for wielding it. If all you care about is adding Flame Blast into your build, then by all means drop Juggernaut. But I don’t see how a build is an “FT build” if you’re not actually staying in the FT but just using Flame Blast.

You also have to remember that the 5-9 stacks of Might from Juggernaut benefit your other abilities, including Acid Bomb, Blunderbuss, and Jump Shot. You will get more damage staying in the FT compiling Might through Sigil of Strength and Juggernaut than you will dropping to your Rifle and auto-attacking with Hip Shot.

zoran.4826:

I never understand why people want dps FT builds and add juggernaut trait. might comes cheaper than a kitten on 7 mile and the toughness gets you threat. Better moving those 5 points to 50 base power (pre might) or the 1% damage per boon trait.

Face it 25 stacks of might are easy to get in a group and the free might from jug is made useless 7 or 70 over the cap of 25 count for 0

The argument that Juggernaut is “made useless” is reliant on a lot of factors, and in my experience the stars just don’t align often enough to where I find that this is a problem.

On paper, a lot of classes have access to Might. But it’s usually only Elementalists and Guardians that can stack it as well as we can. I’m not one to assume that there’s always going to be an Elementalist in my group, and that even if there was, that they’re specced for Might stacking. What if they’re using their staff?

On the other hand, I prefer that a Guardian focus on their own things rather than concern themselves with stacking Might. In dungeons and fractals it’s enough to worry about dropping Wall of Reflection at the right time, dodging when necessary, and making sure they have proper placement so the conical attacks aren’t hitting the entire group. A good Guardian just doesn’t stand there and “spin and win” with the greatsword. And many Guardians don’t run their own staff, meaning Empower is not an option. And even if they were, I wouldn’t be offended if they just used it for Altruistic Healing, and used it when they needed the health rather than Might. That’s why Guardians generally use the skill anyway, unless it’s just the beginning of a fight.

Edit: Just condensing the final point because I really think that’s all that matters.

Decklan.7540:

I have to admit, I was looking at this whole thing from a wvw standpoint, and I understand why spvper’s might think it would be very very very OP. I also feel that most of the people who agree that we need torment might play wvw more than spvp.

Well, I am not an “sPvPer.” I am an “everything-er,” and I’ve probably allotted way more hours in Eternal Battlegrounds and Borderlands than I have in the Heart of the Mists. WXP is a recent thing, so it’s really no proper measure, but it’s still way above what my rank in sPvP is. On multiple characters.

Decklan.7540:

I realize that this game has a long way to go before class balance is achieved across all three facets of the game (wvw, pve, pvp) and that some classes shine in some areas and are completely terrible in others.

Sure, but the Engineer doesn’t suffer from this issue. We aren’t “completely terrible” in any area of Guild Wars 2 … are we?

Decklan.7540:

It just angers me to no end seeing all of these 20v20 GvG battles with a big fat no-engineer sign in front. I had the idea in my head that if we brought aoe torment, then maybe engineers would be more accepted in the wvw meta.

Just don’t worry about it, because who cares about GvG anyway. It’s not even a real thing.

It still confuses me how people can argue that a class that is so powerful at 5v5 all of a sudden becomes useless just because you increase the number of players involved.

johnsonade.9547:

I hear you Phineas, It’s just a consistent issue that I don’t seem to have an answer to currently, and never in life will I say no to a buff if we were to get a new condition. For now I’m getting out-tanked by necros that apply conditions, use siphon tech and transfer my conditions as you spoke of. Pursuing to apply conditions and CC any telegraphed moves I see gets complicated by necro Torment and Fear. Add a tanky minion and you’ve found a great offense against me. But I’ll keep at it. Maybe I’ll have to change my skillset completely and give up on the FT in PvP for now since I feel like I have to control it more than I need to control my opponent with it. I could make a bunch of excuses and say “but you’re not seeing what I’m saying” for pages and pages, but If people in this forum don’t feel that challenged by the things that i’m struggling with, then I just have to level up.

As many will prod me about, I champion the FT every chance I get … but it is not an optimal kit to counter condi classes in a scenario you’re insinuating. It’s for challenging and defending points, ideally for Smoke Vent and Air Blast, not to mention when you trait for Juggernaut and its 200 Toughness passive.

I do see what you’re saying, and I’m of course never going to say no to a buff to the Engineer, but if someone is asking me to “sign here” in support of something, I expect a little more. And I’m sure ArenaNet would too.

johnsonade.9547:

I dunno I’ve run perma-burn builds in PvP and PvP duels, always applied poison via pitol #2 and a poison sigil, applied traited and sigil-based bleeds and had lots of might stacks to go with my berserker gear, but there’s no “easymode” burst techniques that I see in engineer builds like I’ve seen in other classes since the Torment condition tweaked the meta. If you kite like I do in midrange while applying conditions, you’ve probably caught an kitten -load of fear+torment+burn+bleed that is the mid-range necro. Or you got yourself dominated by a mesmer that has Torment in addition to Confusion and unreflectable, long-range attacks. 409 trait did nothing for me versus this. I do my best not to whine, but I see why the OP would like this condition (and have it attached to an offhand weapon instead of a kit) to compete with these other classes. Our Confusion stacks are okay, but if the enemy runs and stops attacking they’ll live. If the enemy takes my ability to kite away via Torment, all my cooldowns go towards getting that back. You still pay torment’s toll even under the effects of elixir S, rocket boots won’t save you, and we have no way to reliably transfer conditions besides a sigil.

My recent experiences in PvP seem to differentiate from yours. Necromancers are tough. No doubt about it. But Mesmers are definitely not as powerful as they once were, and the addition of Torment really didn’t do a whole lot to slow their decline.

You say you want Torment to “compete” with these other classes, but you’re forgetting a few things: we apply Burning a lot better than Necromancers do. They pretty much only have the equivalent of an Engineer running nothing but Incendiary Powder. No Incendiary Ammo. No Flamethrower. No Blowtorch. No Fire Bomb. Just a few seconds of burning on a single target once every 10 seconds.

If you’re getting caught with a “kitten load” of burning by Necromancers, it’s because they’re transferring the conditions you’re applying to them back onto you. I don’t really see this as a problem, because outside of a Guardian using Contemplation of Purity (a full condi cleanse) there is no real effective counter to a Condi Engi. Most classes must just stand there and take it. And with the quick reapplications the Pistol offers, it’s almost pointless to bother removing them. Like, really. Run the Grenade Kit, Elixir Gun, and Pistol/Pistol. You have 3 different Poison skills. You have Blind, Chilled, Crippled, and Immobilized. You have Confusion, Bleeding, and Burning. Is it really so bad that we don’t have Torment on top of all of this?

And is it really so bad that one class can effectively turn our conditions back onto us? I do find it ironic that most players’ complaints about Necromancer’s superior condi is just them reflecting back what we give to them.

Somebody has to be able to kill us.

Thlydd.7104:

I’m working on starting up an engineer. What are the good paths to go down for it? I’m not sure what paths there are to begin with so I guess I’m looking for something that can survive without being a glass cannon.

The most effective early leveling build for Engineers is Static Discharge with the Rifle. It’s generally considered a “glass cannon” setup but it doesn’t have to be built that way. Just slot 10 points in Tools for the trait and do whatever you want with the rest. It’s very good DPS even in defensive insignia gear while leveling and is one of the most entertaining setups for the Engineer. Try it out and see how you like it.

Mord.9237:

I’m not to keen on the close range necessity of the flamethrower, I’d like to use power/crit grenades to reign death on flame rams/people without retaliation.

You still deal with Retaliation with the Grenade Kit—arguably a lot worse than you would with the Flamethrower, because the AoE skills have a larger hit cap than Flame Jet does.

Ledddawe.8964:

how u deal with conditions ? as engi ?

In PvE, Super Elixir (from the Elixir Gun) and the Healing Turret are really all I ever need.

In PvP, I usually run the Grenade Kit and Tool Kit. If there’s a couple Necromancers on the opposite team, I’ll slot Elixir C as my third utility. I usually find this is more than enough. Cleansing Formula on paper sounds really good, but you’re going to more effectively counter other players using your elixirs when you need them for their actual effects and not as condi removal skills.

Decklan.7540:

I find it absolutely pathetic that this is the general reaction I’m getting for asking to get torment placed on a single skill.

Well, you’re asking that the best condition spreading weapon in the game gets access to yet another condition, on a skill that already maintains Burning 50% of the time with Hair Trigger. Blowtorch is already so good.

I just don’t understand how this plays into proper balancing or addresses anything the Engineer needs as a class (or the Pistol as weapon). I didn’t mean for you to take offense by my response, but you must understand that this request seems very far out of left field of what we need most right now.

The Warrior change was actually very useful, because (1) no Warrior used the Sword off-hand like ever and (2) anyone who ran a condition build on their Warrior before that patch was running a bad build.

Did Condi Warriors specifically need Torment? I don’t know. Probably not. But it helped an under-represented class in PvP make use of a very under-represented weapon and actually manage to pose a threat rather than being Glory fodder in sPvP. As such this improves the vision of the game from a balancing standpoint, which in turn improves the health of Guild Wars 2 PvP. It’s easily one of the best changes of the recent patch, and I’m not sure I agree with your downplaying of it like Condition Warriors were effective pre-patch or that Warriors don’t deserve buffs across the board as the obvious least played class in PvP.

What you’re asking is a blatantly unnecessary buff to me. I’m willing to consider the reasons why you want this change, but I’m not sure how expecting sensible balance changes founded on logic and reason rather than emotion or “just because” makes me pathetic.

This thread presents the notion that Engineers need Torment in the first place.

Why do we?

Razor.9872:

Pretty much this…
You engi’s and us rangers have been getting the short end of the stick for quite some time now. Hope things get better soon.

How so? Rangers are in such a good place right now.

Phoenix.3416:

Kalan.9705:

Poe you’re describing things a bit one sided. Many engineer blasts aren’t attached to intrinsically helpful skills, they’re attached to trade off, lose something (like a turret or reposition) in order to gain the blast finisher. This isn’t true of most other classes blast finishers, they are generally gain skills, e.g. lose nothing, do nice damage, with blast finisher as well.

This.

Poe equip a kit in every slot then tell me how amazing your build is.

Engis can’t carry many kits without screwing up the usefulness of a build, excluding the F1/2/3/4 skills kits don’t benefit the user unless you have it equipped.

What is there to tell?

Many Engineers wield the Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, and Elixir Gun together. This gives them 2 Blast finishers, 1 Light field, 1 Fire field, 1 Poison field, 1 Smoke field, a stun breaker, a targetable AoE condition removal, a conical group condition removal, Cripple, an Immobilization with another Cripple, Chilled, Bleeding, Burning, Poison, Blind, Confusion, Weakness, Knockback, and Vulnerability.

Explain to me how that is bad.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Anything done for the engineer that involves work pretty much assures that Arena Net won’t bother with it.

And what about the change to Rocket Boots?

Kalan.9705:

Poe you’re describing things a bit one sided. Many engineer blasts aren’t attached to intrinsically helpful skills, they’re attached to trade off, lose something (like a turret or reposition) in order to gain the blast finisher.

This isn’t true of most other classes blast finishers, they are generally gain skills, e.g. lose nothing, do nice damage, with blast finisher as well.

I don’t see how I’m being much in the way of “one-sided.” Engineer isn’t the only class I play. I have a level 60 Elementalist, a level 80 Guardian, and a level 80 Warrior. And I’ve got enough off-hand experience with most other classes in the game, even if I haven’t directly played them.

Is picking up my Banner of Discipline, using #2, and then using Plant Standard for a Blast finisher effective as a Warrior? Absolutely. It’s also the only Blast finisher my build has.

A Warrior also must take considerable time picking up their banner and “planting” it. The animation is long, with goofy swirls in the air. I would argue that the amount of DPS gained adding 3 Might to the group is totally cancelled out by how much DPS my Axe AA would do in the same amount of time. Never mind the fact that a Warrior must use the Bow to self-combo, depleting all of your Adrenaline which in turn emasculates your DPS output, especially since you’ve dropped your Greatsword for the Bow. Unless, of course, you feel like burning your Healing Surge to gain it back.

You argue that many of our Blast finishers aren’t attached to “intrinsically helpful” skills, but what exactly do you mean by this? My build utilizes Magnetic Inversion, Acid Bomb, and Rocket Boots as Blast finishers. I lay down Napalm, set off my Shield, Acid Bomb away, and Rocket Boot back. I can freely integrate the Healing Turret into that rotation as well if I’d like to, but Engineers have access to more than plenty Blast finishers to where you can stack 9-12 Might for your group without touching any turrets.

And during all of that time I am dishing out DPS, unlike my Warrior. So no: I have to disagree with you that there is anything “intrinsically” lost stacking Might on my Engineer. I find that Elementalists and Engineers are actually the two best classes at it, and while Guardians definitely have the best one in the game with Mighty Blow, the Hammer just as often overwrites Fire fields with the Symbol in the AA chain, and the Guardian must give up valuable utility skills to self-combo in the first place. They pretty much have no room for Hallowed Ground, especially in Fractals where Wall of Reflection and Shield of the Avenger are best in slot, with Stand Your Ground as the obvious third utility.

Totally viable.

But next time, please take a moment to browse through the last few pages of the folder before posting a thread. There are a few threads on page 2 regarding the Flamethrower in both PvE and WvW, one of which I already gave most of the information relevant to what you are looking for.

Phoenix.3416:

but the amount of each ele have is greater, 9 fields for eles 7 for engis.

Engineers have

• 2 Fire fields (Fire Bomb, Napalm)
• 2 Smoke fields (Smoke Bomb, Flame Turret)
• 2 Water fields (Healing Turret, Regenerating Mist)
• 1 Poison field (Poison Grenade)
• 1 Ice field (Launch Ice Mortar)
• 2 Light fields (Toss Elixir R, Super Elixir)
• 1 field that can either be Smoke or Light (Toss Elixir U)

That’s 11. Not 7. Your sources are out of date.

Phoenix.3416:

The engi fields are on skills that are somewhat limited or not used much, for example how often would you use a mortar for the ice field? Now assuming i have this right the Ele can equip 4 fire types with one kind of weapon, engis have to have a certain elite and 4 kits to access the rest.

I actually happen to use the Mortar in WvW all the time. Maybe not directly for Ice Mortar and its combo field, but the opportunity is there—unless you’re suggesting that wide-spread AoE snares are useless in WvW?

Phoenix.3416:

Major difference in builds, realistically the engi can one 2 of those kits without breaking his build while the ele just needs to choose the right weapon and he can put down several of those fields, i believe Staff has access to 3 of those types and daggers 3 too.

I don’t understand this line of thinking. An Engineer can wield 3 kits without “breaking” their build. What do you mean by that?

Phoenix.3416:

Look at blast finishers for each race too http://i.imgur.com/RYj5h.jpg

This is another outdated (or just wrongly done) chart. Engineers have more than 10 Blast finishers. They have 16, which is the most of any class in the game. And many of the best ones we have like Magnetic Inversion and Acid Bomb are off that list.

Phoenix.3416:

the engineer ones involve using barely used skills or detonating the primary function of that skill like destroying a turret while the ele and warrior blasts are combat based and actually help the user when chained.

So out of the 2 if an engi goes for all the combo fields he will be pretty weak while the ele would be buffed by it.

Again, this makes no sense. What do you mean by Engineers being “pretty weak” or that Elementalists would be “buffed” by this? You’re insinuating that detonating turrets is a bad move on an Engineer’s part, but that’s precisely how the Healing Turret is best used. You don’t leave it out. You either detonate it for the Blast finisher or you just pick it up after you overcharge it.

If I go for “all” combo fields, that would mean I would be wielding the Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, and Elixir Gun. I’m curious how you can explain to me how that is a bad build.

Kalan.9705:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Phoenix.3416:

[Elementalists] have access to more fields

Do they?

Elementalists have Fire, Water, Ice, Smoke, and Lightning.

Engineers have Fire, Water, Ice, Smoke, Light, and Poison.

Are you saying you’re going to use Mortar for ice?

No, I was just making the point. Engineers do have more combo fields than any other class, in fact. And Light and Poison may be situationally useful, but in the times they shine they make a massive difference.

Phoenix.3416:

[Elementalists] have access to more fields

Do they?

Elementalists have Fire, Water, Ice, Smoke, and Lightning.

Engineers have Fire, Water, Ice, Smoke, Light, and Poison.