Spreading out all over the place is generally not a good idea. If you do get downed far away from your team, they can’t come to your aid right away. (This is a really bad thing to do on Subject Alpha)
Emphasis on this.
Pay attention to your party members and stay close. If you see someone getting low on health, keep an eye on them and get ready to res them if you have to. There is almost no excuse for having someone downed more than a few seconds if everyone is prepared.
It’s kind of obvious you like aren’t supposed to pass 50 after this update just Iike it was capped before at 40 unless you wanted to res orb/glitch your way passed the imposed cap.
You were always able to keep someone alive legitimately at 40, provided your group comp had a couple of utility resses and a Guardian or two. Legitimately meaning that someone survived the full duration of agony (so not 99% or ledge ressing).
Im a guardian and let me tell you Aegis is nothing. Sometimes in fact Aegis is wasted on a damage spell that does 10 damage, leaving you open to take the 5k lash hit afterward. The amount of times you will be hit while ressing downed, especially multiple people does not equal recharge time on aegis. also, why should i use the tool that makes me tanky, to “Waste” on ressing you. Learn to live because i need aegis to live or im just as squishy as a light armor if i dont have my special virtues.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say that aegis is easily wasted on small damage amounts, and then you say that you rely on your passive aegis for your own survivability? I think you vastly overestimate how much it does for you without clicking it.
Aegis, used appropriately, is one of the most powerful ressing tools in the game. Someone died on Subject Alpha? Run over to them and start ressing. They get an AoE on their head? Aegis, and neither of you get hit, and you complete the res without taking any damage. This can be applied to many other bosses as well, but that’s just an easy example.
Thieves stealth res is good ya, one thing that is helpful but also if players would man up and buy spykits you wouldnt need a thief.
Thing is, Thief ressing also stealths the downed player, which generally causes mobs to leave them alone, allowing much safer ressing than simply spy kitting.
My warrior, although 24k hp, will get downed in 5 seconds when ressing someone downed, causing me to go downed, and that player to still be downed. HP is nothing in this game when trying to res people and you have 4+ trash mobs hitting or 1 boss hitting.
If you’ve got all the trash mobs hitting you, your other 3 party members should be the ones ressing, so that is a bad example. Still, Warriors and Necros still have an easier time ressing people in the fray, because of their HP. That is undeniable.
Yeah. You know what else is in all other MMOs? Tanks, healers, you know, structured team play. Not a chaotic and choppy mess of a combat system which basically consists of, “spam skills until things r deadlol.” WP resing made it work… Sorta.
This game has plenty of team play. There is just a lot more emphasis on your own survival than other games where you are heavily reliant on the others doing their role, so it doesn’t seem as structured.
The fact that you think dungeons are “spam skills until things r deadlol” isn’t surprising if you think that WP ressing was the only thing making dungeons possible. Plenty of players can do the dungeons without any deaths, and it’s not luck.
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All true, it existed they took it out. HOWEVER, these games implement 2 mechanics that GW2 is missing. First, a healing class role, that when well played would prevent the death of players in the first place. Second, a moderately cool-downed revival spell to bring eliminated players back into the fight. With these 2 in place, res rushing has NO place in the MMO. Without healing or resurrection spells, Waypoint Revival appears to me as the most natural way play the game.
Your examples are just tools that fit well with the game.
In GW2, we have the tools to revive people; run up to them and hit ‘F’. Even if only two people run up to someone to res them 1 or 2 seconds after they die, you are highly likely to get them back up again within 5 seconds.
On top of that, there are plenty of tools to res people in dangerous situations. Guardians can Aegis, Thieves can stealth res, Engineers can immune elixir res, high HP professions can soak a lot of damage while ressing players, etc. Some professions also have res utilities for when someone dies in a really bad spot.
Still, everyone is far more responsible for their own well being. A lack of healers just means that other players can’t fix your mistakes as quickly as in other games.
All you need to know is that if you double your toughness, you take half the damage you used to.
The formula doesn’t work with a percentage mitigation style tooltip.
To be fair, the title of the post is clearly directed towards the change in the Jade Maw mechanic. Same as most recent mechanics regarding fractal capping.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear, but I wasn’t really directing my posts at the first post of the thread, but rather to some of the responses in general I’ve been seeing regarding this topic.
This thread itself is a good place to have a discussion about what’s going on, because it started off on good points.
Neither of those suggestions are likely to ever happen, especially not #2.
I don’t believe I’ve seen any posts specifically regarding Jade Maw 50+ here. Every post has either been about how they’re really high level and bragging, or people unconstructively complaining about how Jade Maw is so unfair.
I’m not trying to discredit everyone either, I just find it funny that people claim to do things for the challenge, when they are likely skipping trash encounters that can be challenging themselves. If you could spy kit and break volcano, or cliffside, would people do it? I tend to think so.
And I’m not disagreeing that the game needs to be harder. I think it’s too easy as well, and high level Fractals was the only way to really get something that might have been considered hard to an organized group.
You should drop the 400 number, it’s best not to think about it.
Agony goes from (with no AR): 48% (30) -> 72% (40) -> 1172% (50)
If they ever decide to let us past 50 legitimately, I can guarantee that they will reduce that final number. The agony progression makes sense up until that point. Keep in mind, that 1172% number is only on Jade Maw. Agony on every other boss stays at the 40-49 levels after 50 (72% a tick).
If you’re going to be mad about anything, be mad that Jade Maw is a wall. That is a legitimate complaint, and the one that everyone should be making.
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If it makes you guys feel any better, this was probably a PvP nerf that indirectly affected PvE, since spirit weapons were the only unkillable summons. It was probably needed for further balance.
Like it or not, it was never intended for anyone to get past 50. I don’t know how much more painfully obvious they could have made it (1172% HP/sec seems sufficiently high, and then the loot past 50 doesn’t get any better). ArenaNet doesn’t really patch dungeon breaking exploits that quickly, so just because you could get past Jade Maw, doesn’t mean you were supposed to.
However, I do agree that it was nice going past 50 and still having it scale up, getting a bit more challenging. Personally, I quite liked the dungeons at 80, as the trash itself was quite punishing in some places. I’m quite annoyed that there is a literal wall with absolutely no reasoning behind it, instead of having the agony ramp up so that it was no longer feasible to progress. I don’t really like Jade Maw to begin with either, as it’s not even really a boss, just an agony block.
As for people on this forum claiming that they were only going past 50 “for the challenge”, let me just say that every single player I pugged with past 60 refused to do anything as was probably intended. I understand that those were just pugs, and that some organized groups may have not exploited anything at all and got to 80, but I highly doubt it. I am not doubting that it is possible, because I know you can do it properly if you really try, but it was too easy to exploit everything that gave you the slightest bit of trouble, and I’m sure most did.
Did you spy kit on dredge (both the cage and the doors)?
Did you spy kit on the first bonfire in snowblind?
Did you stand on the tree on Mossman?
Did you break the Cliffside seal with AoE/Lifesteal?
If you say yes to any of these (and there are more, but you get the point, try not to get hung up on the details), then you weren’t doing it for the challenge, you were only doing the bare minimum so that your number could keep going up, and you were picking and choosing what you found worthy of doing legitimately.
The point I’m trying to make is that it’s easy to be angry at ArenaNet, but you have to take some responsibility for your own actions as well, especially when it’s really clear that you’re going past the point of “they probably don’t want me doing this yet”, whether you like their reasoning or not.
A mature response to this situation would be, “Well, I guess they were saving 50+ for later, regardless of their statements saying that it was an unlimited dungeon. I would hope that ArenaNet would tell us their plans about 50+, and let us know why they feel the need to have Jade Maw block progress. I quite enjoyed doing the higher levels, as it did increase the challenge that a player like myself cannot find elsewhere in the game”.
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I wouldn’t hold your breath, you’re probably not going to get new armor skins until an expansion.
Not true as I stated there are ways with rez ppl up and loads of healing power to survive agony till 70
Please enlighten me as to how you heal someone that gets downed with one tick and killed with the next. (1172%hp/sec)
Even if you could perfectly time resses to get them up after every down, they would hit 5 death penalty after the 5th down, and die instantly.
still why can’t they say if 80 is the cap or if they gonna make changes to fractals cap 80 in upcomming patch I still would like to see a dev to say if
80 is cap ?
cap will be raised with next updates?
You’re not supposed to get past 50. They’re not going to say that 80 is the cap, because it was never supposed to be reachable in the first place. Like it or not, that’s just the way it is.
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There is no “base damage”, and armor doesn’t work like you think it does.
Hope this helps.
Different professions are different, but you managed to choose the most overpowered trait in the game and compared it to one of the worst traits in the game.
Mug is a 45s CD, by the way. Theoretically, AoE’ing a group of mobs as a crit spec on a Necromancer will produce several thousand damage from the lifestealing in that time period as well, not to mention all the healing.
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The bosses in general need to involve the entire team a lot more than they do now. For the most part, a lot of bosses just chase one or two people, and the others just kinda sit there and do damage. They also don’t do enough stuff. There is too much downtime on bosses where they’re just trying to melee, or slowly plinking away with their ranged weapon.
Another big thing is that some of the bosses aren’t even really “bosses”. CoF path 2 comes to mind (you kill 4 trash mobs and hit a big object in the middle of the room).
I’d like to see:
- Interrupts playing a greater role
- More things that you need condition removal for
- More stuns to stun break
- More adds on fights, because 5 players versus a single mob is too easy.
- More stuff happening. Snowblind Fractal should have his line of ice spikes happening the entire fight, not just when he goes up.
- Actual fight mechanics not being ignorable (CoF path 1, ignore the crystals)
That would be a good start. Once we’ve got those, we can start talking hard modes!
GW2 will get DX11 when they have nothing better to work on. It’s low priority, I wouldn’t hold your breath.
Considering working on the engine is probably a seperate team I dont see how it can be a low priority for a game released in late 2012.
The engine team is working on culling right now. After that, they probably have a ton of performance optimizations to do, and who knows what else.
Adding DX11 at this point in time would not be cost effective. It’s fluff, and they have bigger fish to fry.
GW2 will get DX11 when they have nothing better to work on. It’s low priority, I wouldn’t hold your breath.
This is not one of those I hate dungeons they are too hard/boring threads. There are plenty of those.
This is a thread about making an optional hard mode with greater rewards/loot.
I never said they were too hard. I think the dungeons are too easy. What I meant is that the devs should worry about making the dungeons more interesting and team-oriented first, before they worry about making a hardmode. The current dungeons are not worthy of a hardmode.
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Pinch: This should be IN THE GAME.
But it’s not, and the alternative works fine.
It’ll come eventually.
Oh cool so you had to tab out of the game and use a 3rd party site to find groups? Cool story
Yep, and that 3rd party site finds fantastic groups consistently, quite unlike random party creators from other games.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d like it if the exact same thing was built in game, but ArenaNet has bigger fish to fry.
Last night, I was in Gendarran fields for 20 minutes and ran in to at least 30 different people.
Game is dead.
Thanks for your the single incident anecdotal evidence with no server name, really cool guy with sarcastic kitten at the end of his post. kitten off.
Earlier I was waiting outside AC while looking on GW2LFG for a group, and there were easily another 25 people forming parties. I have quite a few examples, but I’d rather not list them all.
Kaineng, by the way.
Last night, I was in Gendarran fields for 20 minutes and ran in to at least 30 different people.
Game is dead.
punishment for people good with dungeons,
You don’t really need to be good to farm CoF 1 & 2 in 20 minutes over and over again.
It’s there to stop people from heavily farming the fastest dungeons, considering that all of the explorable dungeon rewards are equal, despite their differences in average clear duration.
I’d rather have the existing dungeons be rewarding and interesting before getting a hard mode version of what they currently are.
Maybe you should look at the harpies, with your eyes.
Jade Maw is 9 ticks.
You’re talking about pugging it. That’s not a Fractals problem, that’s a pug problem.
As for Jade Maw, at your level, you can get by with 0 AR and a self heal.
Agony doesn’t make content harder
Sure it does. It puts emphasis on avoiding the attacks that apply it.
Agony makes content repititive
No, their difficulty system makes it repetitive.
It feels stupid to repeat content just because of Agony
I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.
The progress in difficulty is really low
Again, that’s their difficulty system, not agony.
I expected the challange to be something like trying new tactics, rebuilding my char for specific situations and stuff … but that just didn’t happen.
The tactics do change as levels get higher, but it mostly involves learning how to avoid agony more effectively.
I’m not really sure what your argument is. It sounds to me like you’re just annoyed that you got killed by an agony attack and decided to make a forum post.
The game doesn’t force you to AoE, AoE is just always the best answer to a group of mobs.
I think it’s all the same. In the open world I too am going from point A to point B in order to achieve something. If my goal is to gather Ori in CS, should I fight every Risin on my way from node to node? I don’t see the difference.
Mining a node is different than finishing a dungeon, because a node is not adding currency to the game. Finishing a dungeon gives everyone a pile of money. Items have effective sinks (crafting), and everything is only worth as much gold as people can afford.
The only way to create currency in the open world is to kill mobs and complete events (which usually means more mob killing). Killing mobs takes more effort than not killing mobs.
Dungeons reward you for reaching an endpoint. Getting to this endpoint is easier and quicker if you don’t kill mobs. It’s the opposite of the open world.
And on that topic, I would be curious to know if the main opponents of skipping ever run past mobs in the open world. If the answer is yes, then I don’t think they can argue against it in a dungeon. If they always kill every mob they encounter, then they have a position to agrue (albeit one that is in the significant minority).
There is a clear difference between the open world and a dungeon, and it lies within their reward systems.
Dungeons are all about starting at point A, and ultimately getting to point B and killing a boss. You are rewarded based on an expectation that this will take a minimum amount of time. GW2 mobs do a very bad job at stopping you from running past them, so it is easy to get below this expected minimum. This leaves the reward-to-effort ratio very high, and this is probably not good for the overall health of the game. Dungeon DR working the way it does suggests that ArenaNet feels the same.
The open world rewards you in small increments. You generally have to do small things constantly to earn small rewards. For the most part, this involves combat. You are not usually rewarded for avoiding monsters. The only thing I can think of where that is not the case are chests, where you can double-tap your loot key to get all the loot and avoid the mob guarding it, but that’s more of a bug than anything.
The problem with skipping is that it’s too easy to do. Due to the nature of the game, mobs generally have slow, easily avoidable attacks. Combine that with the out of combat run speed boost, dodge, stealth, and projectile blockers, it’s very simple to just charge past a group of mobs without anyone taking any damage. On top of that, they reset, meaning you just have to keep running and you win.
If the mobs you aggroed didn’t reset, it would be better. I don’t think anyone wants to force you to kill all of the mobs in a dungeon, but you should at least have to fight what you pull.
As for skipping bosses, that should just serve as a sign that the players do not find them rewarding or interesting, and appropriate action should be taken by ANet.
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Jump sideways.
15 char.
I’d like to see bots that can bypass the frostbite debuff or are programmed well enough to do the fractal up to that point. We’re not talking about 10 bots tapping out skelk in less than a second.
Doesn’t have to be a single bot farming. You could bring in 5 accounts, kill up to the elemental before turning on the bots, and then move them to the mob respawning location and let them bot away. It’d be more efficient with 5 anyways, since loot multiplies.
exploited by farmers.
Killing mobs that re-spawn is exploiting? I guess 99.9% of the player base should prepare for disciplinary action.
In all seriousness I think this is both a petty and pathetic route to take. I’m sure someone will regail me with stories of sitting there for hours and killing mobs for actual decent rewards. What a terrible exploit. Recieveing rewards other than Porus Bones for killing monsters.
It’s in an instance. There is zero competition, and there is no one to see you doing it (for bots). That is clearly a big problem.
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It’s capped because of PvP. Since PvE balance is not as important, this is not a high priority issue.
Even when they do change something, direct damage will probably always stay better than conditions in PvE, since conditions ignore armor/protection.
It will get sorted out eventually.
The formula you listed is correct, although you’re missing two pieces of information.
First, is the compound modifier, which is also multiplied. The compound modifier is added up from all of your bonus damage stats, like +5% damage while using a Greatsword, +5% damage from a force sigil, etc. Once you add all those up, there is a single multiplication of 1 + modifier / 100. 10% bonus damage would obviously be 1 + 10 / 100, or 1.1
The other is the crit damage modifier, which works the same way as the compound modifier. Everyone has a base of 50 crit damage, and every point of crit damage is added to this number. If you crit, your damage is multiplied by 1 + crit damage / 100.
As for other information, it’s all reasonably well known. Key points:
- Everyone has 916 of the four base stats at 80.
- 21 precision = 1% crit at 80, but everyone has 4% crit base and the first 916 points don’t count.
- Direct damage does not have a “base value” like some people seem to think (“oh just nerf the base damage of this skill”).
- Attack is a meaningless number that is not used for anything.
- Every condition has its own scaling coefficient and base values
- Every heal has its own scaling coefficient as well as a base value
- Doubling your armor stat means you will take half damage.
- If you want to think of damage mitigation in terms of percentages, consider that the minimum armor value you can have is 920 (light armor) + 916 (base toughness) = 1836 . That can be considered 0% damage reduction, since you can’t reduce any less than it. Compare that to heavy armor, which is: 1211 (heavy armor) + 916 (base toughness) = 2127. That means heavy armor by default will take 15.85% less damage than caster classes (it’s not as much as people think).
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The math is probably just being fuzzed a bit with rounding somewhere. The modifier itself probably isn’t longer than two decimals. I’d wager that it’s 0.67 in your specific example.
Also, did you unlearn your traits? You might have had a passive boost somewhere that was affecting some of your tests.
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You could have just coded something up like
if(shatter used) {
shatterable_effect=0
}or something instead of a band-aid “fix”
Yes, I’m sure you have it all right and know their code better than them.
There isn’t really much wiggle room with the available gear. Just wear berserker’s gear, and put 30 points in critical strikes. As for consumables, Omnomberry pies are pretty hard to pass up because they are both damage and survivability.
From everything I’ve heard, about 50 you’ll get one-shotted by everything regardless of how much health and armor you have, so you might as well go full dunk mode – the best survivability is speeding up the fights.
Yeah, pretty much. The HP can save you, but getting downed doesn’t really matter when your party can res you in a second or two most of the time. I’ve never really seen a snowball of deaths.
Here’s a couple of pictures I took about a month ago for anyone interested:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20706034/pics/gw2/gw015.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20706034/pics/gw2/gw017.jpg
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Paper doll is a bit misleading as the “attack” stat does absolutely nothing and is not used in the damage formula. The “power” displayed is accurate, and is the value used.
Tooltip values are an equally leveled heavy armor target. At level 80, skill tooltips are calculated against 2200. I have all of the armor values written down at home, but I’m not at home at the moment.
Compound modifiers are a bit strange, because some are calculated based on the target you’re attacking (20% more damage to targets under 50% HP). These types of traits won’t appear on the tooltip value, but things like +5% damage will.
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First of all, you need to know the damage formula. It is as follows:
Power * Weapon Damage * Skill Modifier * Compound Multiplier * (if crit, 1.5 + Critical Damage) / Armor
Where:
Power -> Your power at the time of calculation
Weapon damage -> The randomly rolled number on your weapon’s damage range
Skill modifier -> The number associated with each damage skill that determines how hard it’s going to hit
Compound multiplier -> Modifiers from traits and other sources, which are all added together here (i.e. 5% damage sigil + 10% bonus damage while target has a condition equals a compound multiplier of 1.15, or 15% bonus).
Critical damage -> The crit damage stat
Armor -> Your target’s total armor, or toughness + defense (the stat on armor pieces)
To figure out DPS, you need to know two other key pieces of information:
1. The cast time of the ability
2. The aftercast delay of the ability, or, how long after the cast finishes until you can cast another ability.
From there, you can model it all however you please.
As for top 3 sustained single target, it’s probably D/D, P/P, Shortbow, all direct damage based, but that is considering consumable buffs on top of it. Completely unbuffed, it’s probably D/D, Shortbow, P/P. I haven’t actually verified any of this, but it’s pretty easy to get a feel for it. The damage per initiative is obviously highest on daggers, and on a single target, it’s pretty close for dual pistol and shortbow.
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I glass cannon in 60+ Fractals. It works quite nicely. Full berserker gear + ruby orbs + fire/crit sigils, 15/30/0/25/0.
Survivability is more based on you knowing how mobs generally react around your party, more than anything. If you play with the same party constantly, you get really used to it.
My opinion on condition builds is that they are simply worse than direct. I played P/D Carrion for a while, from around difficulty 15 to 30. They do less damage and don’t gain survivability because they operate in melee range for the most part. Direct can safely fire a shortbow 99% of the time and do tons of damage while spamming blast finishers, use dual pistols effectively if you can’t be bothered to aim cluster bombs at a single target, and do tons of damage with dual daggers when it is safe to do so.
nothing wrong with P/P unload crit spec. very high dmg at 900 range with omnom and signet of malice. very high hit volume = very high health return.
This is the truth. 14k unloads are pretty common for me (my group generally has 25 might / 10-15 vulnerability the entire time). That’s not even counting the 4-5 omnom procs on top of it, which is another 1.5k dmg.
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Do you want them to never do something about stealth in PvE or something? If you want a boring and easy game, you can say so.
GW1 PvE was bad because of Shadow Form, no arguments there.
This thread is just going to get locked if we keep bickering.
The existence of stealth and lack of stealth detection means that there will be no limitation on mob skipping in GW2. Spy kits amplify the problem because it means everyone has access to stealth whenever they want it, and they can do it endlessly. Sorry, I suppose I’m not being clear enough for you.
You’re nitpicking. You could still do Urgoz in 15 minutes while killing a ton of stuff.
You’re trying to invalidate my point by attacking me directly, and I’d rather you didn’t. Some of us don’t want the PvE to be a joke like it was in GW1.
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This ^. People complain about every kitten thing. Anything that makes impossible kitten a little easier they cry, anything that’s impossible they cry, you can never make them happy. This isn’t game breaking, it’s called planning ahead to make things less complicated, the same as when you take food, sharpening stones and skale venom.
First of all, I’m not crying, so please grow up and learn how to properly respond to an opposing point of view. Secondly, I doubt you’ll find any posts of mine where I’m saying things are too difficult.
Spy kits “don’t make things a little easier”, they make things trivial. Food buffs and potions are incomparable. Those are standardized and perfectly acceptable, and boost your effectiveness by a reasonable percentage. Spy kits let you avoid playing the game.
LOL? Which GW1 did you play? Cuz we couldn’t have played the same one. In GW1 there was a TON more skipping than what’s going on in this game. In GW1 people would sell runs of missions and elite areas.
You still killed a lot of stuff in DoA/FoW/Deep/Urgoz. The only place you did tons of skipping was UW. None of those were on the level of skipping you can do in GW2, where you can finish an Arah path by only killing 1 or 2 mobs.
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