Guild Wars 2

Just as a heads up folks, consider my damage coefficients for the phantasms as incorrect. It seems there needs to be more testing done before I can actually figure out the damage calculation for phantasms.

Yeah, I think harpoonefish pretty much covered it all. Mainhand pistol would be awesome though.

@skcamow: I’m thinking probably only 2 illusions of life at most. As far as mobility goes, the 2 point strategy should allow us to avoid the need for a runner, as long as we cycle the portals effectively.

DeathPanel.8362:

Helios.3598:

colesy.8490:

For the record, this isn’t me just creating a platform to judge everyone

in the immortal words of Admiral Ackbar…“it’s a trap!”

Obviously considering colesy is known for trolling Mesmer forums and hating on certain weapon types with no substance behind his arguments. This whole thread is a giant flame bait.

Though you have to give credit where credit is due. I actually think he didn’t troll at all in this thread.

@frifox: You use the term ‘base damage’. This does not exist. There is no such thing as ‘base damage’. Please refer to my earlier post for the damage formula.

Ok, so. You really want to stay away from condition builds in PvE for Mesmer, especially considering you play a very strong phantasm build. Stick to your rampaged gear for now, but angle for a set of zerker either from dungeons or wvw badges or w/e.

That being said, there are a ton of awesome and really fun Mesmer PvP builds that use full rabid gear, the blackwater build (or a variation of it that I run) probably bein my favorite. If you get a full set rabid, you won’t regret it.

@Xyonon: Read my posts in this thread. Pay particular attention to the text in italics, and you should learn what the damage coefficient means.

The second build is almost identical to my ‘Overpowered phantasm build’. I think that the last 5 points in domination is not ideal, which is why I put them in inspiration. Take a look at my build, you can find it in Fay’s build list. It works very well for roaming actually, but can be a bit fragile if you get into an outnumbered fight.

juno.1840:

Pyroatheist.9031:

@juno

…or you’re comparing apples with oranges. The numbers calculated in the op were sorta random numbers that don’t mean anything over a long period of time. You just calculated some specific things assuming only 1 attack from the phantasm.

A sanity check on my calculations:

iZerker = 344 DPS (when it completes a single attack chain and dies)

Total damage for the attack chain = 344 DPS * 20s = 6880

That’s reasonable for the numbers I see when I launch my iZerker. However my zerker crits often and hard — so maybe the coefficients are a tad high? How’d you calculate them?

Honestly Juno, I have no idea why you’re calculating based on a period of 20s. Just calculate damage per single attack of the phantasm, then use the attack period of the phantasm to calculate dps.

By calculating this random number over 20 seconds, you’re just making things complicated.

2.03*1000*2300/2800= 1667.5 per hit, non crit. Assuming 90% crit power and 3 hits landing, all crits, you get 12006 damage. This does seem a bit high honestly, so I’ll go recheck my damage coefficients when I have time later today.

@juno

…or you’re comparing apples with oranges. The numbers calculated in the op were sorta random numbers that don’t mean anything over a long period of time. You just calculated some specific things assuming only 1 attack from the phantasm.

@Nretep: My numbers simply say how much damage each hit does. Reflection, AoE, cooldown, bleeding, and attack speed are not included in my numbers. They are purely skill coefficients.

In the example of the warden, that’s a cumulative skill coefficient of 13.2 spaced out over a significant period of time with a significant cooldown.

So flat dps numbers are pretty much useless. What you collected that is useful is the interval between the first hits, and you can use that to calculate the real dps.

I recently finished compiling a list of all mesmer skills and their coefficients, I’ll post the phantasm numbers here:

• Phantasmal Swordsman: 7
• Phantasmal Berserker (Per Hit, up to 4): 2.03
• Phantasmal Warlock (0 Conditions, *1.1 per): 5.4
• Phantasmal Duelist(Per Hit): 1
• Phantasmal Warden (Per Hit): 1.1
• Phantasmal Mage: 2.9

Using those numbers you can calculate true dps. The one issue I have with your numbers, frifox, is that you got different numbers for swordsman traited and untraited. I’m fairly certain that there is 0 change for traiting the swordsman, you may want to check your videos again.

As a note for anyone wondering what these numbers mean.

Damage = Weapon Damage * Power * Skill Coefficient / Target Armor

Those numbers are the specific skill coefficients for each phantasm.

One more note: The damage variation you are experiencing with the swordsmen is most likely due to inconsistencies with attack periods and your overall recording interval. That is why straight dps numbers are always 100% useless. The only thing that matters is interval between attacks.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Dang, how long is stage 2? I think that you guys should shorten it. There has been too many bumps. Don’t get me wrong. This contest is very cool, but I think it doesn’t appeal to that much people anymore because they are either lazy(which is well accepted), or they already saw/voted this thread already. So, if you can, I suggest you guys try to shorten the date just a tid bit, so then maybe more people will decide to vote since the deadline will be closer. just a thought

Also, next time, we shouldn’t do build of the month contest. It should be fight of the Month contest. Where we all pitch in our best recorded fights of our GW2 career and post it here for people to judge. Much more exciting and easier.

We respectfully disregard your opinion. Thanks anyway.

Alyssa.7254:

I have a question that is on topic sorta.

Idk if its my guild or not but I get hammered at if I do not bring a focus with the reflection trait. I love switching my traits and weapons all the time on my mesmer because I get bored but I stopped playing my mesmer in dungeon play because I was locked into the build.

Some dungeons I can see needing it maybe, but I’m talking about ALL dungeons. Is this really necessary lol?

Well, if you don’t go at least 25 points into inspiration, you don’t have a very good phantasm build, and since the focus trait is only 20 points in, that’s pretty much always going to be an option to take.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

All the experienced players I meet regularly happen to be warriors, not Mesmers.

Is that a problem?

colesy.8490:

Look at the thread in my signature for a good overview of effective PvE weapons and builds.

Fixed that one for you colesy.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

I thought I heard you guys say earlier in this thread somewhere that this build can’t beat a PU condition build because it’s damage is spread out because of it being a hybrid. I’m not rewording anything. I’m just saying that you guys have hinted that in your comments. Forget all of this. I will post a video. Then we can have something to talk about.

If you’re having that much trouble posting a video, you can always let me stomp you again and I can record it.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Raising the cash here will get us infracted, so we’ll have to talk about it more in-game. What’s everyones times and can anyone coordinate the EU side? I’d like to start practices this week and building team composition. How does

2 DPS/Roamers
2 Support (1 off-bunker)
1 Bunker

Sound? I’m thinking atleast 2 of us should run Portals.

I’m thinking we’re gonna want 1 boon stripping shatter, 1 phantasm damage build, and one offensive interrupt build.

On top of that will be 1 tanky boon support, potentially running PU with shattered conditions, and then lastly one full tank build.

The phantasm and the shatter builds should probably be taking portals for mobility.

The strategy would probably be a 2 point focus to maximize the effectiveness of the portals. The main bunker would start mid with the shatter, interrupt, and boon support mesmers, while the phantasm would cap back point. After that, you’d probably want the phantasm to drop a portal and come mid for full defense. If they pushed home, you’d have the main bunker and phantasm portal back to defend it, followed by a cycling of the shatter to home point in order to place a new portal.

Another potential team comp is replacing either the interrupt build or the phantasm build with a clone-death condition spreading build, but the overall strategy would be the same.

Thrumdi.9216:

GavinGoodrich.1382:

Coming from a guy who’s more or less acting as a server’s personal trainer, without a guild of their own to be biased towards, this is so draining to see. The fault goes almost entirely on the fairweathers and people on the fence that just want a good classic close matchup. Unfortunately they stacked themselves into one tier to do it.

Not much anet can really do about it, except perhaps make the matches SHORTER, say 3-4 days with a break in between. 24/7 matches just don’t work as it is, when it comes to ALL their servers.

Not much Anet can do about it? Wha?

Hit the kill switch on random matches and the League. Problem solved.

Most tiers were competitive before matchups were randomized.

They were also stale though, and people complained about that unendingly. The matchup system is really a no-win situation for the devs.

That being said, I think that the new incarnation of the orb buff is exacerbating already somewhat unbalanced matchups, and the devs are doing an kitten -backwards job of handling it.

Ryn.6459:

Are you serious? Yoy guys dont retrait cause you are lazy? I dont mind spend all time needed in a dungeon but not for people who is so selfish and dont have any kind of considetation for other people time. RETRAIT IS EASY FAST AND CHEAP. Think in someone else beyond you please.

Going to have to second this. Put in the 30 seconds of effort to have a not half slapped together sorta working PvE build.

frifox.5283:

Pyroatheist.9031:

2 disenchanters will do the job better than 3 sword clones.

recorded 2 vids from today’s runs. note the boon stripping on the golem.
- video 1
- video 2

IMO it’s more stable / predictable than disenchanters.

They both work fine, but having 3 clones out means your dps drops really low, where you can have 2 disenchanters and 1 damage phantasm.

In dungeons, I will have with me 2 swords, focus, pistol, torch, greatsword, and staff.

Torch is only for utility.

Staff is only for boss fights where my team can maintain >7 conditions on the target at all times.

Greatsword + sword/focus is my trash set. The mobs get pulled, you hit 2, 3, 4 on the greatsword, swap to focus, spawn warden, blurred frenzy, and everything dies.

On boss fights, I’ll only use greatsword if range is necessary. Fights like this are the grawl shaman, legendary grawl shaman, lupicus, the ascalonian fractal boss, and some more that I can’t think of right now.

On most boss fights, I’ll use some combination of 2 swords, pistol, and focus. I’ll use focus if there are lots of adds (legendary grawl shaman) or if projectile reflection is required. Otherwise, I’ll use sword/pistol and sword/sword.

I have bloodlust on one sword and energy on the other. I think my pistol and greatsword both have air sigils, and my focus has hydromancy (holdover from when it was used in my immortal build). Staff also has energy. My sigils are mainly what they are because of using these weapons for PvP, and I just use them for PvE as well.

As an interesting aside, confusing images has a higher cumulative damage coefficient than blurred frenzy does.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Bro, I have already tried everything on the internet. That’s why I came to you guys. I have went to the error pages on Fraps forums, asked, got answered, and tried it. Still 10 seconds long. PLz. I need the help of anyone!!.

Smells like GIGO to me.

colesy.8490:

Take 10 points out in domination and stick them in dueling for blade training, and run glamour mastery, warden’s feedback and maybe persisting images in inspiration.

Warden’s feedback is pretty much the only reason to go in to inspiration when talking about dungeon builds.

Persisting images actually is a really big difference now. It boosts based on the base hp of the phantasms, and so since the PvE hp was increased by 270%, it also boosts 270% more. Since normal phantasms have 7700 base PvE hp now, persisting images provides a boost of 1500 hp. On the iDefender, if you use it, with 19000 base hp, that 20% hp boost is about 4k.

frifox.5283:

5, since i’m stripping boons as well (3 clones and me, since I attack ~2x as fast). I’ve also noticed that he loves to target my 2nd disenchanger immediately if I summon him so it’s not easy to keep them up if he destroys them so fast. Though, last run I’ve noticed something interesting. If I summon a disenchanter during his spin (long skill animation) I can summon all 3 and he will ignore them (similar trick where you glitch some of Arah bosses)

I tend to find that he completely ignores my disenchanters, only hitting them with stray aoe damage which is negligible. I will put 2 disenchanters on him at an alternating pace in order to keep his boons gone, and then use a damage phantasm.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

I am troubled my self for self bumping, but I seriously have a problem with the fraps recording. I can’t get the recording to go over 10 seconds. I mean come on. What kind of software does that? I can’t comprehend what went wrong. Someone plz explain to me the steps you need to take. I have tried the instructions but have failed 2 times over a course of 4 hours. I am dumbstruck. PLz. This is so I can finally post a video.

http://tinyurl.com/ksbkpvh

2 disenchanters will do the job better than 3 sword clones.

Hi there Aron. For a more in-depth look at what I’m about to tell you, read through this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-PvE-Dungeons-Phantasm-build-s/first#post2884450

In general, a phantasm build is the classic berserker build for PvE. Your build looks pretty decent. You’ll want to have at least 1 more sword and a focus with you at all times. Remember to be very flexible with the traiting in your inspiration line, your weapon choices, and your utility choices. Change them up to best suit the encounter you’re in. Also, don’t take compounding celerity for team PvE. You would be better served with mender’s purity, if nothing else.

Your traits look pretty decent. You may want to consider taking 5 out of dueling and putting them into illusions for illusionist’s celerity.

Scholar runes are not as good on mesmers are they are on other classes. Since % damage boosts such as the one on scholar do not affect phantasm damage, the vast majority of your dps won’t be affected by the runes. Straight ruby orbs would be a better choice, or a normal damage oriented rune set such as divinity or air.

This should probably be put on the list as well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-PvE-Dungeons-Phantasm-build-s/first#post2884450

Darksteel.8412:

lol I find it funny how you people that play mesmer say, we mesmers etc…
Making it sound like you are realy the mesmer or invented it or anything.

No you are just making use of something that is made by others, also in matches that can go realy fast…a confusing factor like illusions are OP. Especially if it is spammable, don’t kid yourselfs and boost your ego wich is based on illusion ^^. In fast fights, people fake enemies are OP.

Go back to the necromancer forums, we don’t want you!

Why on earth would this be a top priority. Get off your lazy bums and go take the points you need. This isn’t PvE. The points aren’t just sitting there to be handed to you on a silver platter. You’re in WvW. This is a conquest oriented strategy game. Don’t whine about not having points, go take them!

And another awesome announcement! We now have a teamspeak server, thanks to skcamow!

Look at the MOTD to see the info.

Ok folks, I’d just like to make a general announcement regarding guild missions. I’ve personally purchased enough influence to get the guild to art of war level 3, but at this point it’s going to get very expensive to keep doing it myself.

I think it would be awesome to have OMFG doing guild missions together, but we need a lot of influence to make this happen. If you’d like to donate gold for influence, send a mail to me with the subject line of ‘For OMFG Influence’ or something of that nature, and we can get this going.

You got hit with this build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-The-Blackwater-Mesmer-Condition-WvW

I would explain it to you, but first I’d like to ask what sort of understanding you have of how the mesmer class works?

skcamow.3527:

@keenlam, I would like to remove my build from the contest. Reason being is while it’s a fun build to roam and skirmish with, it’s inferior to the now official chillruption condition build my tester and I finally settled upon after much playing around with and some eventual valuable feedback from Pyro. Understanding I can’t use that build, I would rather not spend the time in stage 2 with the original one I submitted.

That said, I think the process here worked excellent. My tester and I worked on my original idea and both came to the conclusion the build had it’s merits; it was a fun and different play style for a condition build. But in that testing we found some deficiencies, most of which were resolved by adding staff, which really unlocked it’s full potential. The problem is I wasn’t able to coordinate with my tester in time to update my build link for the ORB deadline that I honestly wasn’t aware of until it was too late.

This isn’t a plea to use the new build – I want to honor the process. Maybe this can help refine our process further and also remind future build creators of it. So I will cheer on the remaining participants and look forward to October. Good luck to everyone and thanks to those who voted for my build!

p.s. back up to the top

By all means though, submit it next month. I look forward to seeing what you’ve made.

@Photoloss: Regarding autoattacks.

If you have your 1 skill set to automatic autoattack, you can interrupt the action with any other action nearly instantly. If you are manually pressing the button, you cannot.

ThaOwner.7560:

lordkrall.7241:

Neeho.3859:

It’s hard to believe with all that testing this wasn’t recognized…

Testing can never find all issues and some issues might not even turn up on the testing-servers at all.

or that this was a copy/paste of spvp cap points and there was no testing at all

sPvP cap points work significantly differently.

Full rabid 20/20/30 isn’t hybrid. You don’t get to post 3 build variations and suddenly call it a hybrid build either.

Nretep.2564:

Nope, if your character is facing in the opposite direction almost no skill will work properly. You can’t attack your backside.

So be sure that when the phant cast is finished to turn your character towards the target for a short moment.

You’re wrong. Not sure how else to put it.

2 options you need to check. First option is promote skill target. This should be checked. Second option is right click to attack/interact. That should be unchecked.

colesy.8490:

Would carrion be a viable alternative at all? Toughness sucks pretty hard in PvE, so while you wouldn’t have power as your main stat, having power, cond damage and vit gives you three relevant stats on objects versus PVT’s … 2.5 relevant stats. Then again I have zero experience with applying conditions with my mesmer beyond bleeds from sharper images and vuln on sword and I know bosses hit the cap pretty quickly, so…

You got it right in your last sentence. The main method of bleed application for mesmers is sharper images. Tequatl is a gadget. You can’t crit on gadgets. No crits = no need for precision + no need for crit chance + no ability to apply bleeds + no need or condition damage.

On top of that, bosses do get ….everything capped pretty much instantly, so conditions are mostly useless. Power is the only relevant attack stat against gadgets.

@colesy: swordsmen spawn at you, so they can’t get to the head. Wardens and zerkers spawn on target, and so they will be summoned floating in midair at his head.

Zerkers will be killed by the tequatl fingers tossing poison. Wardens will protect each other from that.

Edit: Also use Pvt gear.

@skcamow: The bunker build I’m using is 0/10/30/30/0 sword/focus and staff with defender, disenchanter, and signet of illusions. I rely on leap/swap for stunbreaks, and I generally just get my phantasms up and bunker down. It takes 3 people to push me off a point, with very few exceptions.

www.gw2buildcraft.com is the best site once again now that they’ve updated it.

I assume you’re talking phantasms. Are you using signet of illusions and the 20% hp trait in inspiration? Are you talking the normal world bosses or tequatl?

There’s a few possibilities here. One could be that the timer is bugged so that it forgets that they don’t still have 3 points. Another could be that your point indicators aren’t updating for some reason.

Ill be in for this of course. I specialize in bunker builds, as most of you are aware.

This bug only happens on armor sets that come preloaded with runes. I don’t believe such a set exists for runes of the pack.

You’re mainly losing crit damage, along with some power/precision.

I use centaur runes in my zerker gear, and this is again a function of pvp>pve. They work fine, they’re just not optimal.

For Mesmer, particularly a phantasm build, ruby orbs are significantly better because the scholar 10% bonus will not apply to phantasms.