Guild Wars 2

Snappppy.8137:

In my experience, it only dodges a limited number of attacks per set time. So if you’ve got multiple sources of incoming damage, some will go in.

Your experience is wrong, I’m afraid.

@OP: The most likely cause is the 6 bonus of runes of nightmare, which is undodgeable.

So there’s a good bit of misinformation floating around here regarding damage.

Halting strike has a set damage calculation. It ignores your weapon strength, and simply uses an internal modifier. This does not change ever. The method of getting the interrupt has no effect on the actual damage. This is true whether the interrupt was from chaos storm or from the mantra.

That mechanic is why the damage on it is so low, and so unrewarding in an offensive build.

The main issue with halting strike is its location. It happens to be in the same trait slot as mental torment and empowered illusions, both of which will provide far more damage than halting strike ever could. If you go 20 into domination, then greatsword training for a phantasm build or shattered concentration for a shatter build are both far better choices.

So, since you’re still just leveling, I’d recommend you stick with ether a good shatter or phantasm power build. I won’t really recommend anything for wvw for you right now, mainly since your builds and capabilities will change rather substantially between 60 and 80. That doesn’t mean you can’t go dabble in wvw, but I’d recommend sticking to pve for the most part.

At 60, you’ve got 50 trait points, soooo

Phantasm build: 10/10/0/30/0. You could also try 10/15/0/25/0 for some extra bleed pressure. You’ll take Dom 3, dueling 2, and inspiration 5, and then 8 if using a focus. The way you’ll play this is summoning your phantasms on a target, and letting them eat it. If you’re working in the labyrynth, go staff sword/focus, using the staff phantasm on bosses (it scales 10% per condition on the target) and meleeing the spawn doors.

Shatter build: 0/20/0/0/30. You’ll be missing out on 20% mind wrack damage from domination unfortunately, but illusionary persona is more important for damage and utility. Play this just offensive: get 3 clones up, mind wrack, rinse and repeat. You won’t do as muh damage on bosses with this, but you may get better tagging on the doors.

Wowzers. That’s one hell of a necro. Wrong forum perhaps?

StickerHappy.8052:

Hmmm. so in short.. an interrupt mesmer isnt viable at this point of time? I played almost all of the blackout/interrupt builds in spvp, its a lot of fun because its not the conventional phantasm/shatter playstyle. So the dmg of halting strike as of now is RNG?

Interrupt mesmer can be viable, but halting strike is not a viable method of doing damage.

Halting strike does technically scale with power, but it scales very oddly. Suffice to say, the damage on it stinks, and it’s a trait that is absolutely never worth taking.

I’ve posted this before…but Sylvari. Always Sylvari.

ahuba.6430:

phantasm specs are only good until your opponent realizes you are a phantasm mesmer.

At which point they….die?

Not sure what you’re trying to get at here.

Skill 1. High damage + confusion stacking.

Skill 2. Guaranteed to stop a stomp from any class, with any buffs of any kind, with any number of people stomping you as long as there is a target. This is arguably the 2nd best 2 skill in the game, as the thief teleport can be countered with a teleport.

Skill 3. Worthless in condition builds, but this phantasm does incredible damage, often cracking 7k-9k per hit.

The 3 skill in downed state does not matter at all. If you are able to use the 3 skill, it means your enemy has made a mistake. The only skill that matters is the 2 skill.

This is not a bug or an unknown thing. The fact that the use of the heal mantra allows us to make optimal usage of on-heal runes is simply an interesting interaction, fully by design. It’s no different than engineers taking medkit to achieve the same thing with even less cost.

Rinzler.8072:

So i wonder if the mesmer trait that clears condition on heal also works….

Doesn’t work. That actually modifies the skill you use so that it also removes a condition, it’s not just a slot-activation check.

This is really obvious with the new skill/trait facts, and you can see that taking mender’s purity actually changes the fact for your heals, but altruism or centaur or w/e don’t.

Mckeone.9804:

What do people suggest for max dps on maw tentacles? Phantasms seem to die really quick and those tents have a huge attack radius.

Sword/sword sword/pistol. You can go melee range very easily.

The tentacles have 2 attacks that they use back and forth. One is a knockback spin, dodge/bf/sword 4. The other is a slap attack. You can avoid that simply by strafing around the tentacle as you attack it.

What a horrible idea.

It would be hilarious though :p

spoj.9672:

He didnt say scepter sword was for trash. You would use pistol and focus for trash. Sword offhand is very good for shaman (block and decent phantasm).

I didn’t imply it was for trash. There’s just no reason to leave melee range on the imbued shaman unless you’re killing the trash, and for that you want strong long range aoe. Staying in melee range with sword/focus is both more effective and safer than ranging it, as long as you know what you’re doing.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Scepter/sword is the best ranged swap you can take for the grawl shaman, that or just don’t take a ranged swap and go sw/f+sw/s.

Well, that’s not really true at all. Nether scepter nor sword have any good aoe to speak of, and so you’ll be mostly useless when trying to aoe down the mass of elementals when they spawn.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

15/30/0/25/0. You should be camping mantras the majority of the time in fractals, no point not to take empowering mantras.

So that actually doesn’t make a lot of sense either. You’re going 15 points into domination simply for a few stacks of vuln on daze? That’s a very poor choice, and generally only taken for soloing lupicus, nothing else. Stacking vuln isn’t your job as a Mesmer, don’t bend over backwards to do so.

Additionaly, camping mantras is also a poor choice in fractals. There’s no real good reason to do so, since in a phantasm build you’re putting most of your damage into phantasms, and Mesmer normal (non-shatter/phantasm) attacks are comparatively weak. There are many more effective utilities to take in PvE content other than mantras that you don’t intend on actually using.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Off-hand sword is pretty much better than pistol everywhere other than when dealing with tough trash (magic bullet mages in ascalon, for example).

When dealing with tough trash, you’ll be wanting a focus…not a sword or a pistol. Aoe pull/interrupt and a strong aoe phantasm is what kills trash. Both sword and pistol are highly single target.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

You should also probably take mimic when you do the grawl shaman.

I’d probably stay away from encouraging exploits, even if they are hilarious.

So the mantra boost, along with compounding power, are % damage boosts. These are not boosts to power, they are a multiplier tacked on at the very end of the damage calculation, so they won’t show up anywhere in your stats.

That being said, I think that it’s a horrible idea to go for mantras like that. You really don’t gain all that much damage, especially since it doesn’t transfer to phantasms. Additionally, you are locked out of using a lot of other strong traits and utilities, and you’re basically taking multiple utilities with the intent of not using them, which just doesn’t make a ton of sense to me, especially for a leveling build.

Yeah, in volcanic the gs is far better than scepter/pistol in terms of good cc for the vets and strong aoe burn damage in the elemental part.

In dredge, you need sword/focus, not sword pistol. At least 90% of the enemies in that fractal are projectile users. Putting down a warden and/or curtain makes meleeing dredge very easy, not to mention the fantastic control with the curtain.

In Cliffside, you also want sword/focus. The acolytes use a VERY strong bouncing projectile attack, and temporal curtain also provides good control during the arm seals and chest seal.

In the Swamp, I actually take greatsword as my swap from sword/focus, purely because having cripple on Mossman is really helpful. That being said, I don’t actually ever swap to greatsword, I just stay sword/focus and make sure that the axe never hits a teammate with reflects.

In snowblind, sword/focus is really important for the first 2 steps. The first fire has a lot of projectile using mobs, and you want control there. In the ice elemental part, the summoned elementals use projectile attacks, as well as being spread out, so you want temporal curtain to group them up and aoe them down rapidly. For the boss, swap it out to something a bit more damagey.

The spec I personally use in fractals is 10/10/0/25/25, because I value that 15% damage over sharper images and a dueling trait.

You’ll want sword/focus, and then your swap is somewhat up to you. Both greatsword and staff are valid choices, and they just define how agressive you will be on your swap.

As for traiting in dueling, you’ll want sword cooldowns for sure. Your other trait is actually a little optional. Deceptive evasion allows you to pop out clones real quick while in the middle of the fight, or you could take the 1200 range manipulations to allow for a long blink to save you in nasty situations.

When playing in there, you have to remember that your clones won’t survive for more than a second, so all shatters have to be chained extremely quickly in conjunction with your clone generation, or you’ll lose a lot of shatter power.

So for melee pain train running, you’ll be doing a shatter build, because that provides strong pbaoe damage and disruption.

For traiting, you’ll have x/20/x/0/30. You can either got 20 into domination or chaos depending on how hard you want to go defensive. I’d recommend domination for boon strip and wrack damage.

You’ll want a massive focus on toughness for your gear. My personal choice for this type of fighting is knights armor/weapons and cavalier trinkets.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

One judge would run ahead of the group for some of the more confusing/complicated puzzles so that everyone had a focal point to follow.

Erp. You mean the judges actually have to do the puzzle?

Also, your inbox is full.

keenlam.4753:

@WyldKat: you seem to be a decent and humble thief.
I’ll give you a tip (if you don’t know it already ). And I hope this will at least how much people underestimate Body Shot.

On my P/P thief, you all know I use Body Shot to secure my Unload. But I would never ever spam Body Shot, and always use it with Basilisk Venom.

As far as I know, Mesmer has no stunbreaker with condi removal built-in, unless using traited Signet of Midnight in a Signet build and you probably won’t see much that build in WvW.

This means when you successfully hit with Body Shot, you force the mesmers to blow 2 utility skills (or 1 utility and another key weapon skill) to regain movement. And I think that is very impressive.

I always judge a thief based on their open-ups. The good ones are the ones I never see their open-up attacks coming because after all the whole thief class is designed to rely on surprise element to win.

The thing about p/d though is that it doesn’t have any burst pressure. You aren’t forced to break that stun against a p/d. I’ll usually just let it run out on its own, then deal with the conditions on my own time.

Also, the mantra, disenchanter, and traited Mage will all remove conditions through a stun on you.

Kevlar Eater.1985:

Joonks.7501:

Kevlar Eater.1985:

Why bother reporting? It isn’t like the bugs in the skills/traits in just about every profession are getting acknowledged, let alone fixed. In some cases, new problems are piled on top of old ones, making complaints worse while remaining unfixed (basically like spraying cologne on a stinking turd).

You are part of the problem.

I implore you, enlighten me so I can become part of this ‘holy’ solution. Or at least, tell me more about how much of a problem I am when the problem-solving ball is not in our court.

The problem can’t be solved unless you put your ‘problem-solving ball’ into their court.

By refusing to report bugs/exploits simply because you feel like nothing is being done, you are simply obstructing any possible progress.

If you report bugs and exploits and nothing get done, then it isn’t your fault that progress is not made.

Your link is private. Please copy/paste whatever you’ve got hidden on that forum into your post here.

Uh…I nominate myself as a judge on account of absolute jumping puzzle incompetence…

As far as mesmerized goes…I will be doing my best to roll out some more of those, but I’ve had very little time lately, so we shall see.

Errant Venture.9371:

snip

I think you’re crossing threads my friend. This thread is about team queue. You are wrong.

P/D thieves can be a bit tough to handle for builds that don’t have reliable access to high output condition removal or good reflects. For builds with high output condition removal, I just shrug off the conditions as always, and for builds with good reflects, you kill yourself for me.

skcamow.3527:

Well, three of the primary mantra traits are in dueling, so that part makes sense to me, but the issue is that mantras aren’t nearly worth enough to spec all out in them, “wasting” those traits. Maybe in that case it would be better to spread those out a bit – or at least protected mantras to another tree and maybe make harmonious mantras a master trait (I think I recently read a post about that). That may be OP though.

Completely agreed about Chaotic Revival and Retaliatory Demise, though the latter is much worse. I can (barely) see a use for CR in team PvP where being downed is, well, kinda the norm. RD is completely useless but also lends much more to a PvP setting.

Decent into Madness irks me as well. It’s pretty much a WvW trait, pure and simple. Why in the world would one use this anywhere else? And rarely do you see someone taking it when in real WvW action. They just trait in/out as needed when they’re jumping off a cliff. I say solve the falling damage issue another way and give us a better trait selection here instead.

Maybe replace something useful for Vengeful Images, like maybe Compounding Celerity (since it’s rarely used anyway)? Would rather they revert VI though.

Descent into Madness is just the standard fall damage trait. Everybody has one, and it finds uses, whether cliff diving in WvW or doing a nasty jumping puzzle.

• Shattered Conditions/Restorative Ilusions
  • 2 grandmaster traits that rely completely upon shattering in a line devoted to boosting phantasm damage and durability? Ok…
• Protected Mantras
  • Increasing toughness by 400 when you are channeling mantras in a line devoted to crits and crit damage.
• Retaliatory Demise
  • Why…does this exist?
• Chaotic Revival
  • Why…does this exist?

Sensotix.4106:

Kelthien.8593:

Sensotix.4106:

illusionary leap
-> clones get stuck randomly if the ground is not flat

Lol. Oh Sensotix. The whole point of his post was to remind people to submit bugs in the bug forum and not the class forums!

I know still i thought it was the faster way

It’s not faster. Powerr won’t be reading this thread. It’s a waste of time to report bugs where they won’t be seen.

azamean.8017:

Velimere.7685:

Being able to move during the cast of Mind Stab and increasing its God-awful radius would be nice…

The radius should be upped to 180, but it was changed recently to allow it to be cast while moving. It has a catch though, if you’re standing still and cast it, you won’t be able to move through the animation, but if you’re already running and cast it you’ll keep moving. The new ground targeting option works really well with it.

This is false. The aftercast was reduced, but you still stop moving while casting it.

keenlam.4753:

@Pyro:
How did confusion bomb build work before? This build type obviously predates my time in the game.
Did it rely on Cry of Frustration shatter?

It was pretty simple, you just bursted high amounts of confusion using shatters. Before confusion damage was nerfed, people could kill themselves pretty quickly if they weren’t paying attention, but if you didn’t just spam buttons you could wait until the confusion wore off, then kill the mesmer.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

^ yeah, I cant recall the exact name of that thread, but this build was never intended to be used in large scale wuv wuv, however it excels in duelling, roaming, and some aspects of pvp/Tpvp

That being said, you can modify it a bit to be workable in zergs without a retrait. Toss on feedback and null field, grab confusing enchantments, and you’ve got a decent tagging build. You can also get into the middle of some skirmishes to make use of the clone explosions for some more tagging.

Cares Less.9631:

Confusion Glamour was super effective pre nerf when run with a group of Mesmers, especially in mindless zerg mentality when people spammed 1 due to lag and killed themselves, I understand what you are saying Pyro, and I never would have used it roaming, yet mindless zerg mentality allowed it to be very effective, and those same mindless people who didn’t understand how to counter it and whined incessantly were responsible for its nerf. Instead of learning to play, they were rewarded by their whinging by the nerf.

In one of my replies, I clarified that glamour builds are not confusion bombs. Glamour = low confusion stacks to high number of players. Confusion bomb = high confusion stacks to low number of players.

Glamour works (worked…) well, confusion bomb not so much.

colesy.8490:

Excuse the double post, but I moved to Sanctum of Rall (NA) and I have no idea which of you have NA accounts.

When ingame, the guild window will show what servers people are on.

Godmoney.2048:

cyyrix.6105:

Pyroatheist.9031:

cyyrix.6105:

Pyroatheist.9031:

alanis.6094:

Was running 0/20/20/0/30; there are tons of builds and discussions on the forums, but I haven’t seen a single IP.

If you mean a standard confusion bomb build, then that has never really been effective.

You can’t be serious. Maybe not in spvp, but in wvw shatter confusion and glamour confusion specs were so strong that they were hit with some of the hardest nerfs in wvw balance history.

Glamour != confusion bomb.

Confusion bomb shatter builds have always been absolutely abysmal, even before the nerf. They have 0 pressure and can be countered by the complicated method known as /dance.

Flat out wrong. Shatter confusion builds were insanely effective pre-nerf. Maybe you were playing pve?

Prenerf confusion shatter specs were a instant and easy win against anything but condi removal spec thieves. While the nerf sucks, confusion was super strong prenerf.

Prenerf confusion bomb specs were an instant and easy win against anyone incompetent. I was never killed by one, I just waited 3seconds for the confusion to wear off. Remember, perplexity runes didn’t exist back then, so Mesmer confusion only lasted about 5 seconds maximum for non glamour application.

Just as an FYI, I run condie builds with that rabid/dire mix trinkets. With those I stay around 20k hp, which is confortable for me.

cyyrix.6105:

Pyroatheist.9031:

alanis.6094:

Was running 0/20/20/0/30; there are tons of builds and discussions on the forums, but I haven’t seen a single IP.

If you mean a standard confusion bomb build, then that has never really been effective.

You can’t be serious. Maybe not in spvp, but in wvw shatter confusion and glamour confusion specs were so strong that they were hit with some of the hardest nerfs in wvw balance history.

Glamour != confusion bomb.

Confusion bomb shatter builds have always been absolutely abysmal, even before the nerf. They have 0 pressure and can be countered by the complicated method known as /dance.

mambastik.8735:

-[Incoming life and economics lesson]-
I have $5 off coupon. Would I save more if I buy something that’s $10 or something that’s $10,000? Buy the $10 thing and save 50% or buy the $10,000 thing and save 0.05%? Neither, it’s the same savings because at the end of the day you’re still saving $5.

You don’t want to think in terms on percentages in this situation. Just because you get a higher perceived heal does not mean you heal more. In my particular build (near 20k health with 0 Inspiration trait) I still use the 4k heal Mirror. Sure the perceived heal looks very low, but it’s still going to be 4k even if I have 15k health.

So here’s why you’re not quite right.

When you have high toughness, each point of hp represents a higher amount of health, because it takes more raw damage to remove each point. Due to that effect, heals are more effective with high toughness.

With high vit and low toughness, you have 2 interactions. The first is that each point of hp is worth less health than with high toughness, and so your heals are less effective just because of that. However, on top of that you also have the issue of heals healing for a lower % of your health.

Now, while this doesn’t make an immediate difference, it ends up being very impactful in how your build is able to sustain effectively. Even if at 40% Hp you have as much health as a high toughness build at 70% hp, your 40% is worth less. With lower health you are targeted more often, finishing moves (such as heartseeker) do more damage, and so ultimately your sustainability is significantly reduced.

LiebnirGWAccount.5698:

Pyroatheist.9031:

So feel free to post your build ideas over here in the OMFG Tester’s Testing Thread

Off the top of my head though, I’d say PU is generally going to be defensive overkill for PvE though.

I didn’t want anyone to spend any gold for my own inquisitions! Between us, simply, If we whipped the 30 in chaos down to 20, where do you think it’d be better spent?

Well, a lot of people may have the gear already, or close to it :p

However, could toss it into dueling or illusions for more damage or compounding power, or you could go for inspiration if you wanted glam cooldowns.

Kaos.9162:

If you want to have some real fun, set up a bali or two in one of the borderlands puzzles, good luck trying to do that with siege on you.

Pretty sure they siege locked them a few months ago.

So feel free to post your build ideas over here in the OMFG Tester’s Testing Thread

Off the top of my head though, I’d say PU is generally going to be defensive overkill for PvE though.

If you go into WvW and don’t expect to be attacked by the enemy, you’re going to have a bad time…

Updated the build to reflect more recent changes. Also updated with the configuration of stats that I use for roaming.

Additionally, I’ve been using this build more for roaming and small groups in WvW, and find it quite effective. The key is that you can focus your damage or spread it out by how you target your phantasms. For focused damage, you’ll load up 1 person with both phantasms, but for more spread damage you can put them on different targets, and even go attack a third.

Godmoney.2048:

Use a mix of both. I use full carrion armor with rabid weapons and jewelry. That gives me 38% crit which I find to be plenty and I have 18k health which is accetable.

I don’t like using full carrion or full rabid because rabid leaves me with 15k health which is very vulnerable to burst and full carrion gives me a huge health pool that is hard to replenish once it’s down.

Mix and match carrion/rabid.

A better choice woudl be to mix and match rabid and dire though, that way you don’t have the wasted stat of power.

kenny blankenship.6354:

hey ANET.. my billable rate is $150 per hour. since you have wasted two hours of my time you owe me 300 bucks. I’ll take my payment in gems … The bill will be in the mail tomorrow.

Anet didn’t force you to stare at your computer screen twiddling your thumbs for 2 hours…that was the stupid choice that you made.

Azo.5860:

Carrion http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|c.1h.h1h.d.1h.hy.0.0.0|1.1h.hy.0.0.0|1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719|1h.62.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62|k3a.k2a.0.k29.a5|30.d|31.3d.38.39.0|e

Rabid: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|c.1b.h1h.d.5b.hy.0.0.0|1.1h.hy.0.0.0|1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719|1b.62.1b.62.1b.62.1b.62.1b.62.1b.62|k30.k2a.0.k29.a5|30.d|31.3d.38.39.0|e

carrion has
%26 more effective power
almost equal effective health pool
less 55 or smth condition damage

i was prefer carrion before conf nerf as this build in wvw raids with another runes.. cuz like more health pool as we regroup and full my hp with blasts.. and conditions as other confusions was make it easier with high ehp and more dps.. however with reflect rabid works better.. check here http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/60838-math-damage-reduction-toughness-and-vitality/
its about how u position yourself, your environment and skills, playstyle..

You forgot a few stats there.

Carrion: 13% crit chance, 1886 armor
Rabid: 42% crit chance, 2497 armor

The effective hp on buildcraft is pretty much a useless metric. It doesn’t take into account a lot of factors that really affect a build’s survivability.

Well, my first piece of advice, as usual, is that you need to play the class a bit. The mesmer playstyle is quite different than most classes, and in order to really understand what’s going on, you’re going to need to play it a bit.

Now, that doesn’t mean you need to master the mesmer, but you need to have a good idea of what skills are going off, and what they’re doing.

Now, as for specific advice….this is going to be a bit hard. Mesmers more or less hard counter warriors, and so while reading this advice, keep in mind that a good mesmer will rip you a new one no matter how pro you are.

However, they do have a limited number of escapes. The most common stunbreak utils will be blink and decoy. On a torch mes, that’s almost definitely PU, so you can count on them having decoy. So, in order to lock them down, you need to bait out those 2 stunbreaks. You can do this by forcing them out, or looking like you’re going to force them out, but they have to be gone before you go in for the kill. Once you’ve gotten those out, you can try to burst them down as hard as you can. However, be wary of overstaying your welcome because…

The next part of killing the mesmer is not being killed. The scepter block applies 5 stacks of torment. That hurts badly. Every clone that you kill will apply cripple, and weakness/vuln/3 bleeds (pick 1 randomly) to you. Since your weapons are cleaving, you’re going to be potentially blowing up a lot of clones. If you blow up too many, you’re going to be in a really bad place, so try to isolate the mesmer from their clones. Additionally, try to bait out the block. Learn the buff icon that it shows, the animation they use, and do your best not to hit it.

That’s pretty much all the advice I can give you. If you follow it, you’ll have the best chance you can of beating a mesmer. However, it’s still not going to be possible vs a good mesmer. Blink and Decoy are on 30/40 second cooldowns, so it’s tough to bait both out. The block is on an untraited 10s cooldown, which means you have to move FAST after baiting that out. Worst comes to worst, they can still pop a distortion shatter and walk out of your combo, and lastly phase retreat will move them out of your attack range during a 100b or w/e, even if they are immobilized or stunned, and that’s on a 10s untraited cooldown. Realistically, a warrior can’t beat a good mesmer.

Azo.5860:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

So just to confirm. Mind Stab got a 30% ninja buff or no?

from me no.. mind stab looks same..
secpter #1 skill 3rd atack have nerf huge

and phantsm tool tips that u see damage in your skill bar is wrong it should be maybe %51 lower* verification required on izerker i tested

and i ve question about phantsm weapons what they use pvp regular 80 greatsword? and same as in wvw?

And I think that the scepter skills didn’t get nerfed and gs3 got buffed :p. My scepter attack numbers are the same now as they were pre-patch.

Nretep.2564:

The mistake is, that you think phants are affected by YOUR weapon’s strength. Do the test with steady weapon and you get the same damage. But if you calculate the skillCoefficient by the formula for weapon attacks, it seems to get stronger with weaker weapons.

TLDR;
Phants do not use the weapon attack formula since they ignore your weapon’s atk (at least in pvp). That’s pretty much the reason even steady weapons don’t deal steady phant damage.

The way phantasms work (tested and confirmed now) is that they use the normal damage calculation, but they use their own special level 80 exotic internal weapon. Basically, do the whole damage calculation as normal, but instead of using your weapon damage, just plug in a generic level 80 exotic.