I mean, why would you buff something that would prevent shoehorning an entire class into one or two viable builds?
Thieves is a bad example anyway. The newest of SB nerfs shows that the real problem is that thieves still have ANY use for a ranged weapon…even if that is solely utility now.
Next shortbow adjustment for thieves: “Trick Shot” removed and Replaced with “Nerf Dart.” Base damage reduced to 1, attack no longer ricochets. “Infiltrator’s Arrow” removed and replaced with “Stand and Die.” Casting Skill #5 on thief shortbow now roots thief in place until death.
I got three Jade Weapon tickets without buying a single rich dragon coffer.
In fact I got the ticket for my SB skin on my second normal coffer.
EP was running an untagged guild-only zerg for those fights with you guys. I think our numbers were at like 30-35 at the time, which is probably the most we’ve fielded simultaneously as a guild-only-group so far. We’re kinda going though a honing stage right now, and growing a core composition instead of raw numbers.
As far as open field ACs go…I bloody hate them. Our guild as a whole doesn’t really count a “win” as a “win” if there are ACs on the field. Sucks that some people are still trying this tactic, but hopefully they quit. Those things have no place in the open field. :-/ If you see EP building ACs in the field, you can feel free to call us on it (provided they’re not in response to other ACs built by opponents). xD
As far as defending a structure goes: All bets are off. Build as many ACs are you can manage.[/quote]
Wasn’t directed at EP specifically, You guys were fun to fight. It was you guys we were battling in TCBL if I remember correctly. I know there was a lot of militia running with the guild group we ran into a lot, I dunno if that was by design or just because we were trying to ninja bay and hills and got spotted, but either way it made for some epic fights, albeit against some long odds. I don’t really mind getting beat, and had a blast on EB later battling the TC hordes at the gate of our spawn (and later spearheading the assault to take our keep back by getting into inner and guiding in the treb shots…and smacking some acs) on both my newbie ranger and my thief.
The only thing that got to me all night was when the tc zerg outside our spawn was flash building sup acs earlier in the day. I don’t think EP was even on in force at that time.
TCBL – Gods Zerg. Fun fights, hope to see you guys again soon
Those fights were tons of fun. You caught us napping once, and we took a beating for sure. You guys had SO MANY PEOPLE, Watching you guys crash into us was like trying to stop a tsunami with an umbrella.
KN im on TC and so far you have met us in the field and fought with us. You don’t have 5000000 AC’s defending a tower like FA. You guys have been the best fights this whole week. I look Forward to fighting yall. Points don’t REALLY matter anymore. Its mostly about having FUN!!! If you can have fun your good!
I find this statement to be painfully ironic coming from someone on TC. I’m sure you guys needed those superior arrow carts you were building in the open field and all over every tower and keep to defend against a force 1/3 the size of your zerg. Unlike other servers I will not call out, FA rarely flash builds siege in open field fights. In fact the only time I have ever seen FA build siege in zerg vs zerg fights was last night when we were trying to push your stupidly massive zerg off our spawn with a fraction of the people you were fielding.
I don’t care how you choose to play, but throwing stones from your glass house shows a hilarious lack of class.
Torment isn’t going to do enough damage to control movement though (a stack of 3, even doing 200 damage per stack won’t encourage people to stop moving on it’s own), but if you’re referring to using it in conjunction with other means, then, yeah, it will help.
Well yeah, I am referring to torment in conjunction with the chills, immobilizes, stuns, and other effects of the other venoms and skills. In other words, a niche type thief that can effectively impair your ability to move/run for an extended timeframe.
Yes, its overpowered that a stealthy/mobile duelist can kill you when you are wandering around alone with your blinders on.
Yes, adding a new condition to a class that is rarely played condition spec is a massive buff.
Yes all the devs play thieves. In fact rumor is the GW2 expansion will change the name to Thief Wars 2.
Yes, all classes except thieves are being removed from the game. No big loss, they were all useless an weren’t viable. Elementalists? Guardians? No one plays those. Mesmers? Necros? No one has ever been killed by those. Ranger? Warrior? I don’t even know what those are. Perhaps some kind of npc?
Yes, thieves have only been buffed since the game’s release.
regarding stuns – I believe Anet is trying to make stuns into thief kryptonite. so when people qq about thieves, everyone can just say – did you try stunning them?
This has the effect of making glass thieves much more vulnerable, which does something to counteract the other buffs that make them potentially more deadly.
The other buffs make non-glass thieves (like condi-focused and power-focused) more viable though and the stun changes won’t hurt those builds much (since they can survive a 2 second stun). I think that’s their goal; spread out the thief player base into interesting variations. And make full glass builds require more skill to play (i.e. saving the evades for the stuns).
The scary thing is that mesmers supposedly are getting buffs to interrupts, and have some decent ways to cause stuns, so you can expect to see some stunning mesmer builds.
regarding weakness, it got a much needed buff, but thieves got more limited access to it. I think in the past it was considered a poor man’s chill, and so it was fine to let thieves have it. Now it stops a burst, so it’s got limited duration. Thieves can still use it, but they need to anticipate the burst a bit. And it makes for more interesting play/counterplay. I weaken you, then expose myself hoping you blow some cooldowns or initiative, then you notice and wait it out, but that gives me a chance to go on the offensive.
one thing I find strange about the new change is that now almost all the venoms affect mobility (except poison). Not sure why they chose this, but it seems odd. It does encourage saving venoms, rather than using them all at once, since it lets you draw out movement control throughout a battle.
Assuming forethought in this, perhaps they wanted venom thieves to have a niche as a movement control type duelist.
Make the players choose between:
Stealthy Burst Assassin
Acrobatic Swordsman
Stealthy DoT Condition Spec
Mobility Control Venom Spec
Mind blowing that people still cannot figure out how to handle thieves.
I’ve killed like 10 thieves this week WHILE THEY WERE STEALTHED.
No matter how smart and deceptive the thief is, there is one thing you know. If he is dagger mainhand he is going to try to get behind you. Despite this so many people just stand there waiting for it when you stealth. Nothing is more frustrating as a thief than someone who moves unpredictably and makes it hard/impossible to land that backstab.
Different builds.
Let me repeat that.
Different builds.
Different builds.
The thing that everyone complaining always forgets about.
Mesmers and Thieves aren’t inherently better duelist classes. They do have, however, better duelist builds. There’s nothing that’s implying that Mesmers and Thieves will get Torment for their strongest builds – if anything, it’ll just open up new possibilities for condition builds, which Mesmers and Thieves are weak at. Also, both Mesmers and Thieves lack build diversity, and are pretty much stuck on one or two builds, so new food for conditions makes sense.
You don’t know how it will be implemented.
Let me repeat that.
You don’t know how it will be implemented.
You don’t know how it will be implemented!
I will say this again. Given Anet past history on “balance” everyone who doesn’t play a thief or mesmer has every right to be concerned about this.
Rumor (via “leaked patch notes”) is torment is attached to a venom skill that most thieves, including condition thieves, will never use. Feel better?
In a weird moment of experimentation with my D/P build (I change my weapons and traits constantly) I tried something a bit odd:
I won’t comment on gear and such, since with the exception of my Div runes my setup is straight GC, full zerker. One thing I find with D/P is that the reliable stealth access let’s me run glassier than other specs. The other factor for that is that with my playstyle, large opening spike and access to deception is better for me than staying power.
Now, where I changed it up is traits. D/P is pretty initiative heavy, so I’m traited for initiative refund on stealth and the extra base initiative in trickery.
0/30/25/0/15 traits.
The downside to this is that I must be very proactive in my damage avoidance, since any damage I take will stick.
Only a WvW player focuses everyone with dragon wings first.
Ironically I got a Jade weapon skin from a coffer that dropped when I killed some poor, foolish guardian in wvw.
More like calling a troll a troll. Sorry Ren, dont get your hopes up on him learning anything, it apparently requires much less effort to cry and troll than it does to improve ones knowledge and abillity. And we can clearly see which path Burnfall takes
Yeah, I just don’t understand the run and cry to anet types.
I mean, I hate mesmers more than this guy hates thieves and you don’t see me trolling the Mesmer forums.
Calling a horse a horse was well worth any infraction that may be issued. In the meantime, I hope you take the opportunity to learn to read and respond to opposing viewpoints instead of regurgitating rubbish every time you post.
Ofc, we both know that won’t happen, just like we both know you will get shanked by some thief again and be back here with more tears tomorrow.
Even when I played D/D I never used DB. It just felt….useless.
Ya know I haven’t even seen pistol whip on my toolbar for main hand dagger offhand pistol. Do I have to switch em?
Pistol whip is a skill you get with Sword/Pistol, not Dagger/Pistol.
So many mistakes for someone who actually plays the class:
Mistakes? No, i wouldn’t call it “mistakes”. It’s just a different point of view on the class.
1- CnD is not a cheap skill which you can spam, and you can easily miss it.
The basic cost is 6 ini, 4 ini if you have “infusion of shadows” traited.
4 ini isn’t that much.
Easy to miss? Like every other skill that is used in close combat.2- Even if you can Spam CnD, it won’t stack, you will just reveal yourself on the second hit.
You can stack it in a different way: CnD -> Blinding Powder -> Hide in Shadows -> Shadow refuge. This gives us (with Meld with shadows) 4 + 4 + 4 + 13 (=25 seconds of non-stop stealth)
There is no reveal between these skills.3- If you want to play without stealth, you will not benefit from the Shadow Arts tree.
I didn’t say a thief should play without stealth. My point was – a Thief shouldn’t have the ability to perma-stealth. I thought i said that clear.
4- Without stealth, you can’t perform your highest attack, backstab.
I don’t use backstab. I use sneak attack. But anyway – stealth in it’s current form allows you to perform attacks from out of stealth every few seconds. Sure, i profit from it a lot, but i still think it’s too much of an advantage.
In my opinion there should be at least 10 sec reveal time between different stealth skills.
I’m very, very, very curious how all the pro stealth spammers will look like in 1vs1 with such a restriction.8- Your comparison is totally wrong. If you want to compare virtue and adrenaline with anything a thief has, it would be steal. I’m pretty sure a thief can survive without using Steal.
You’re partially right here. My intention was to show, that Stealth is the main tool of every thief.
But ok, let’s have a more valid comparision – take traps from a ranger and he will still be powerful. Take minions from a necro and he still will be powerful. Take shouts or whatever from a warrior and there will be lots of good builds left. But … take stealth from a thief … and all you will hear will be “nooooo, don’t nerf us”.9- Thieves are NOT GODMOD when they stealth.
I didn’t say that. I said clearly – all stealth skills are ok like they are.
It’s just perma-stealth that annoys me and so many other players.
[/quote]
Plenty of people run non stealth dependent thief builds. I see tons of S/D evasion builds and D/D burst builds, neither of which has access to stealth to the extent of D/P. I personally ran P/P and D/D with both 25/30/0/0/15 and 10/30/0/30/0 traitlines
I only swapped to D/P for two reasons: 1 it plays similar to the D/D build I was running but with more backstab access and 2. It has an interrupt to prevent heals. I also love the D/P 3 for staying on target.
I’d say the real reason so many thieves go 30 into SA and go for stealth is this:
While some classes have traitlines/signets/or base damages that reward them with damage even while building tankiness, thieves must spec damage to get damage. Our skills have low base damages and we rely on bursting targets hard and running away. Speccing shadow arts gives us staying power we would not have otherwise because it offers the ability to avoid damage through deception and to heal our small hp pool in-combat and stay longer in the fight.
In order for us to utilize less stealth we would have to be buffed somewhere else. Given the class’s design, that would probably be damage. Making us more visible but more bursty would only result in more newbie tears. The thief class is basically an assassin. Get in, kill target, get out. No matter if stealth was completely removed, so long as we have the tools to fulfill our intended role the cries for nerfs will never stop.
6K with a single strike… on 2600+ armor… plus you are taking up two boons from your enemy for 3 Initiative… totally fair yep,
What i was thinking? Sorry sorry guys, i’m so sorry,
EDIT: Please zummy post a screenshot from your char panel, and your tpvp level zummy,
I just wanna know if you are ignorant or just hypocrite,
Doesn’t know the init. cost of FS-LS…wants to talk about balance in relation to init. cost. 2600 armor lol. My char is in straight zerkers and has 2600 armor. You are acting like that is a high amount of mitigation…
" Still, it’s class that allows such things, and no other class gives so big advantage in any other “discipline”. Some are better at some things, but it’s just too much".
Anyone with Common Sense clearly see this as Favoritism.
Favoritism gives the Stealth Thief a sense of Entitlement to do what ever they please, without having any consequence or prevention to their actions whatsoever.
Thus,
Boosting their ego’s in enjoying the suffering and torture of other players.
Also,
They derive pleasure from treating and disciplining players harshly under their control (stealth).
Resulting,
Restricting players from ever escaping their control.
Just once I would like to see you post something that makes sense.
There you have your balance dude,
I’m talking about balance because I know this game, and because I play all classes, including the thief,
I’m sure the only class you play is the thief, that’s why you will defend it at any cost,
That looks like the thief was wearing soldiers and critted on LS.
I was wearing rabid, so what?
There’s always an explanation, isn’t?
Do you have any idea of how much time takes me to do 6K damage?
This is why i’m able to complain…
Now go and roll a necro,
So what I am taking from this post is
“It’s OP that I can’t do as much front loaded burst as a single target burst class specced for single target burst with my damage over time conditions on a non burst class.”
Logics.
The outmanned buff atm seems pretty useless. It essentially gives you a bunch of buffs that help if you are running around doing pve crap and camp flipping. Why does the outmanned buff not have an actual combat bonus?
My suggestion is simple:
Make outmanned buff increase the HP of the player by a decent % (perhaps akin to seigerazer buff) to account for the fact that there are less of them.
Just out of curiousity, has anyone tried a P/P Rampager Set with superior sigils of Earth on the weapons? 60% chance to inflict bleed on crit with tons of condition damage, then like a 15/30/0/0/25 or 25/30/0/0/15 traitline?
Seems like if you were going to go hybrid, that would be the way to do it.