Guild Wars 2

The solution is that we keep making threads expressing our discontent, and make sure the front page is full of them. People thinking about buying this game need to see them and realize that despite this game being B2P, the monitization of the game is absolute garbage and has a -huge- impact on its endgame. Between rampant loot nerfs and how unrewarding most activities in the game are (yay, another dungeon chest full of vendor trash) that intentionally annoy people into buying gold with cash so they can get what they need off the TP, and the fact that the vast majority of cool skins (the guild wars franchise’s primary method of ‘progression’) that have been added since release have been stuck in gambling boxes rather than making them things you can earn….

Fun, challenge, and depth.

Spend a bunch of money and gamble it away for nothing, or spend a bunch of time and gamble it away for nothing. Pick your poison?

Right now cool skins go to people with lots of disposable income rather than people who have earned them playing the game (no, farming and getting lucky is not playing the game)…so any argument about them being truly prestigious or novel is kind of lost. When I see a fused weapon, I know I’m looking at someone with lots of cash to throw away on gambling boxes or someone that got lucky…not someone that is particularly skilled at the game or has accomplished anything of merit.

Challenging content with unique rewards for group sizes > 5? Yes please.

Anything to do with ascended gear or agony resistance? No thanks.

Is Soldier’s (PVT) a better choice than Sentinel’s (VPT)?

Thread closed by moderator in 3…2…1…

Wonder if they’ll compensate people if they go with the “it’s a bug and not intended” route.

Are we taking bets on a “the 0.5 salvage rate was always intended, and we just fixed a bug” response?

Datamining GW2.dat shows there will be Festive Dragon Coffers with a rare chance at Dragon’s Jade Weapon Skin Tickets! Yay!

:/

They are definitely going to want to have an expansion waiting in the wings with TESO, Wildstar, FF14: ARR, Archeage, etc. on the horizon. I hope they don’t think that the living story is fun and compelling enough to hang on to players.

How else are they going to corral you into converting cash into gold and buying what you need off the TP if they don’t keep up with the loot nerfs?

No.

-Anything- would be better than what they’ve done so far with the current ascended gear.

Implementing a new gear tier was unnecessary. Giving the gear better stats was unnecessary. Adding agony resist was unnecessary and cheapens the whole skill/teamwork aspect of fractals progression. Making the gear available only through certain venues was dumb. Using the gear as shallow (and extremely obvious) time-sink is dumb. Implementing the gear in the most alt/build unfriendly way possible is dumb.

Part of me wants them to raise the level cap so they can deprecate the current garbage and implement better/more interesting item progression.

They aren’t meant to be farmed. They’re meant to be gotten off of the TP so that you’re tempted to buy gems and convert to gold. Working as intended.

They still have a -long- way to go to be able to take spvp off of life support.

Limited amulet stat builds
Poor class build variety
One game mode (Standing around in areas until they turn blue rather than focusing on player fights)
No saving builds
Having to pay for duels…seriously?

Nooo, don’t delete it

Vayne.8563:

This game launched way too early for business reasons and Anet has been playing catch up ever since.

Agreed. This is probably the root of a lot of the discontent. Lots of areas that fall short of expectations, and everyone wants the devs to spend time shoring up their area of interest….whether it’s GW1 players or players coming from other MMOs.

Do they have time to catch up with TESO, WildStar, Camelot Unchained, etc. on the horizon? Hard to say. Going to be an interesting year for MMOs I’m thinking.

Absolutely agree that GW1 is far from perfect and there are things that GW2 improved upon. But shouldn’t GW2 have kept the strengths from GW1 while also improving upon the things that weren’t? Poking holes in GW1 (that everyone agrees existed) doesn’t really explain why it shouldn’t.

Vayne.8563:

If you compare Guild Wars 2 to just Prophecies, it’s a much better comparison. If you want to compare it to the rest of Guild Wars 1, you’ll have to wait a couple of years.

Why? I’ve never understood these sorts of arguments. Did they start design/development on GW2 during Prophecies, before any subsequent improvements had been made?

killcannon.2576:

They have included so many things in GW2 from GW1

They kept the lore. That’s about it.

The reason a lot of GW1 players are upset with GW2 is because the weak areas of GW2 are things that GW1 did -nearly perfectly-. And it’s completely baffling.

Build templates
Skill variety (more than just combinations of damage/healing + condition/boons)
Skill customization
Story
Multiple PvP modes
Better cash shop without RNG
Costumes/hat vendors

Just off the top of my head. It’s like they sat down and listed out the ways that GW1 was better than other games, and made sure not to include them.

People are still hoping that sPvP is going to get the support it needs to be popular?

…really?

• Add WvW implementation and jumping to GW1
• Announce new GW1 expansion that centers around the founding and construction of Ebonhawke
• Shut down GW2

You won’t get bonuses until the next match reset following a server transfer. As intended.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

People really need to take a step back and think about things. Do you want a game that keeps you occupied for long periods of time, that gives you a reason to log in on a regular basis and has long-term goals? Or do you want a game that you can finish in a week and forget?

I enjoy games that allow me to play with friends and offer interesting and fun gameplay. Chasing after shiny baubles with bigger numbers is neither interesting nor fun. /shrug

rizbliz.8579:

first goal id have to set would be to get full exotics then after that get 30 laurels (30 dailies or 1 monthly + 20 dailies) and get an ascended amulet

Gathslan.1870:

Advice? Do your dailies and monthies :P those will allow you to have accended gear without much of a hassle while giving you lots of time to do your own thing and have fun! (you can do the dailies and monthies and have fun too ofc)

It makes me infinitely sad that advice to player returning to this game includes “do things so you can get gear”.

My advice, find a good guild and a good group of friends to play with.

Amun Ra.6435:

Mungrul.9358:

Amun Ra.6435:

What do you people want? You want the BEST gear in the game for a legion of alts in a matter of weeks? Please explain how that makes sense?

Because it was possible in GW1. That’s how it makes sense.
You want to work your kitten off in order to play on a level playing field? You want it to take months to reach the stage where you know it’s your skill that differentiates you, not some arbitrary numbers on a fantasy construct that says its armour?
How the heck does THAT make sense?!

This is not GW1. If you want everything you had in GW1…play GW1. If you believe its only skill that makes the difference you don’t really need AG right?

I think he’s saying that skill -should- be the only difference.

Salt.4621:

Absolutely yes. Leveling was the best part of the game.

Great news! Due to having multiple character slots, you can enjoy leveling all you like without forcing the rest of us to have to do it. You can even create the same class and race if you like.

Mega Messiah.1734:

Look at all these people answering “No”!

Time to dash some dreams:

Mike O’Brien (CEO of ArenaNet) wrote:

“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP.

“In GW1 we never advanced the level cap through four campaigns/expansions. The game design didn’t allow for it. But GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.”

Sources: http://www.gamefront.com/guild-wars-2-level-cap-raise-confirmed-for-future/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/

Everyone has already learned on Nov. 15th that ANet has no problem dashing into a controversial decision head-first without considering player opinions and public backlash. When they pull the trigger on this, absolutely no one is going to be surprised.

I would vote yes if it also came with each and every one of the following:

1. No MF gear at the new level cap.
2. No ascended tier at the new level cap.
3. Make exotic gear at the new level cap ever so slightly harder to obtain.
4. If they -really- deem it necessary, make exotic gear at the new level cap have the ability to add agony resistance (and only agony resistance) via the mystic forge. If they also want to make it have pink letters after infusion…sure, why not.

Raising the cap just for the sole purpose of invalidating all my current gear? Yeah, no thanks. Been there, done that.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

That said, I really think we need a inspect feature

Oh god no. Disable MF in dungeons or groups…or just remove it entirely. Adding an inspect feature is exactly the wrong approach to this.

Guild halls were a much loved feature of GW1, like extensive lateral progression, deck building, alliances, GvG, etc….so no, it will probably not be implemented.

Another part of the manifesto states that GW2 “takes everything you love about GW and puts it in a persistent world”.

I’d like to see a poll asking people what they loved about GW1. I guarantee “power ceiling/lateral progression” makes the top 3. In fact, it is one of the games defining characteristics…and I really wouldn’t be surprised to see it at #1.

We can argue like lawyers all day long over the intent behind each and every word of the manifesto, but at the end of the day, there is a -huge- public perception that they did in fact abandon it. That’s crystal clear by the fact that 3 months later there are still threads being created about it. And that perception is all that matters in the end.

Vayne.8563:

The grind portion clearly referred to combat grind, not vertical progression.

Combat grind? What is combat grind? In a decade of playing MMOs, I’ve never seen the word “grind” used that way.

Vayne.8563:

Anet didn’t abandon their manifesto. People have abandoned their memories.

So -everyone- that claims they abandoned the manifesto has a bad memory? Except for you?

I don’t think the full damage from their manifesto abandonment has been seen yet. I still think that GW2 is -currently- the best MMO on the market. They were already going to lose the grindaholics to FF14 or the next big WoW patch…but now I also don’t see them being able to hold their former franchise fanbase from ESO or Camelot Unchained.

Mackdose.6504:

I played GW1 (for about 8 months per campaign) and the stagnant gear was one of my biggest gripes. Apparently Anet agreed.

For a lot of us who have tried many different MMOs over the last decade and found out that all of them are basically just different companies’ rendition of WoW, grinding gear for better stats is what we consider stagnant and unoriginal. And if the rumored 23% power increase for full ascended over exotic turns out to be true…it will be anything but optional at some point in the future.

Jovel.5706:

It’s all about that gear progression huh? Answer my question though. If this feeling of GEAR progression is so important to MMORPG’s and CORPG’s everywhere, what will you and the many carrot-lovers do once you’re blinged up on full ascended gear? Like, if they released ascended armor to Fractals in the March update, and you were covered head to toe in Ascended gear, what will you do? Ask them to make a new tier of gear to please your obsession? Honest question. Also, did coloring the letters of Ascended gear pink please your gear treadmill and progression disorder? What if Legendary and Exotic gear had infusion slots and the Ascended gear idea was scrapped before November, would your disorder still trouble you?

I love this. Can we -please- start referring to peoples’ need for the illusion of vertical progression as a disorder? Vertical Progression Disorder? VPD for short?

I’m hoping that the achievement revamp and guild missions signal the return of the Zaishen Order.

New tokens = Zaishen Crowns? zcrowns?

I don’t really know how ANet is going to resolve the PR kittenstorm they’ve manufactured. They’ve gotten a -lot- of negative press over this, and I imagine the next time they announce concreate plans to add more ascended gear pieces…these forums and many fansites are just going to re-ignite with rage and dissatisfaction. I don’t know how much more public lashing this game can take.

Players wanted a sense of progression, and instead of coming up with something creative (there are tons of examples of how to do this…and they needed to look no further than GW1 to find a lot of them), they decided to go the easy and lazy route: better stats on gear.

Like much of their devoted fanbase, 11/15 was like a punch in the mouth. Am I still playing the game and having fun for now? Yes. But have I fallen out of love with it and have started to look at other MMOs on the horizon? Unfortunately, also yes.

Looking for opinions on a dilemma I’m facing.

I’m currently a day or two away from being able to make my flameseeker prophicies shield. However, with the knowledge that these items will one day have their stats boosted (i’m assuming this includes weapon strength)…I’m starting to think it might be less optimal to craft an off-hand weapon rather than a main-hand or 2-hand weapon. My second choice after the shield is definitely the sword (main is a warrior).

So now I’m trying to decide if I should sell my precursor and onyx lodestones on the TP and buy Zap + as many charged lodestones as I can.

The pros/cons as I see it:

FSP:
More setups with my warrior than I can use it (sword/shield, axe/shield, mace/shield)
Love how it looks
Seems fairly rare
“Defense bonus” stat may be boosted to ascended levels?

Bolt:
Takes better advange of ascended-ness (weapons strength used in more of my attacks)?
If they make legendaries account bound, sword is usuable on more of my characters than a shield
Extends my legendary grind by roughly 200g (more expensive precursor/lodestones)

It’s probably important to note, which ever one I get first, I would already be planning to get the second afterwards.

This game is extremely frustrating for me because, like many, I bought into the whole “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world” part of the manifesto.

If they put up a survey asking players what the best and most loved features of GW1 were…I think they would find that almost -none- of them are in GW2. Either because they just aren’t implemented or because they have been blatently thrown out the window.

Don’t get me wrong, GW2 is absolutely brilliant in a lot of ways. But in the areas it falls short…it -really- falls short. And possibly unrepairably short (looking at you gem shop).

Chiming in to applaud the OP. You have put to words exactly how I feel.

Bugs? Yes, I will give it time.
Balance issues? Yes, I will give it time.
Missing features? Yes, I will give it time.
Doing a 180 on your manifesto and punching your fanbase in the mouth? No, I feel like I already gave you more than enough time to do that.

Best post ever. I definitely agree that they could easily have found better ways to increase their revenue without throwing their manifesto out the window.

Robbyx.1284:

Rooks Zaer.5846:

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

Wrong !!!! nobody specifically said they wanted a gear grind, they just wanted something meaningful to do once they reached level cap, instead of farming plinx over and over……and Anet in its panicked, unimaginative state, and all the while hemorrhaging players, decided what we have now was the answer.

You are also wrong about GW1 players, they were some of the most vocal looking for change…they largely felt that in GW1 you could happily play at any level and still be doing something meaningful, unlike GW2…..its just that Anets answer was way of the mark.

Please stop with your silly “WoW” generalisation, it just makes you look silly and uninformed….most players came here from WoW, rift, DDO, LOTRO, LoL etc because they were looking for what Anet promised…and failed to deliver.

That could very well be that no one asked for it. But I see a lot of “you asked for this didn’t you?” on the forums. I don’t know…I’m not a part of that group.

I’m a GW1 player that was happy with the fact that I could participate in WvW…and infact did so starting from level 21. I don’t know where the complaints regarding inability of doing something meaningful comes from. What sorts of things can you do in GW1 at level 5 that you can’t do in GW2?

I don’t think we disagree on the 3rd part. A big part of their fanbase I think are the people coming from WoW and WoW-like games not wanting to play yet another one…and being lured by the whole “we don’t want to build the same MMO that everyone else is building” part of the manifesto.

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

Satisfying you and gamers like you required ArenaNet to throw their entire fanbase under the bus. Are you ok with that?

You are definitely not the only one. I feel like they’ve punched their entire fanbase in the gut.

Infinitely better.