Guild Wars 2

Angriff.1935:

Yup…another thread with people arguing about something when they haven’t specified

HOTJOIN

or

TOURNAMENT PvP

This is largely the reason for the grossly different views of things. Particularly on the viability of the Warrior in PvP.

So please say what you play when you’re gonna make a statement.

Because there’s a difference between Hotjoin – Free Tournaments – Paid Tournaments

I have successfully played a warrior in both Hotjoin and Free Tournaments and even Paids at times

It’s in Paids where you start to feel useless though and limited to builds because people actually know how to deal with you there. It’s not impossible to play warrior in Paids, you just need a really good team that can make up for you playing a warrior.

No, i meant what i said. PvP. Both sPvP and tPvP. The warrior excels at neither. You may have more luck in sPvP because the teams are composed of newer players, solo players, and have almost no coordination. In pvp, regardless of type a warrior is one of the least viable classes.

If there was something besides conquest, then yes that statement might be too vague. If there was TDM and CTF, i am betting the warrior would be more useful and a heck of a lot more fun to play, but 5 months in and nothing has changed, so i am not holding my breath for anything besides more conquest.

And like others have said, once you reach a certain point, all that is left is crafting builds (besides teamwork, strategy, tactics obv).

And again, like others have said, the only warrior build right now that is even remotely viable in PvP is the 100b build. Here is why:

No matter what you do or how you do it, another class and another build can do it better. You are not helping your team by playing a gimped class. The 100b build is the only warrior build currently that can be partly useful, due to its high burst damage potential.

Provemewrong

6a. You are a one trick pony (and henceforth referred as such). The only viable damage comes from a glass cannon burst spec that absolutely always uses greatsword and 100b. No other weapons can register even a paltry fraction of 100b’s damage (except eviscerate).

6b. 100b, being the only pony trick the pony warrior has, is extremely predictable and extremely easy to dodge. This is somewhat due to the fact that bull’s charge has horrible collision problems and regularly misses outright, and the fact that… well, its virtually the only pony trick a pony warrior can do.

6c. Since 100b has such a long animation time, and since 100b freezes you in place, the only way to effectively land a 100b is to use frenzy coupled with bulls charge or another 2 second CC, making the pony only viable every 60 seconds. This isnt even mentioning that if by some miracle your 100b does hit, all they have to do is hit their stunbreaker and dodge, which means you’ll only hit them for around 5k at most (if they are good), and now the pony warrior wont be able to effectively do its pony trick for another 60 seconds.

There are many more reasons why the pony warrior is completely broken for pvp, but these are some of the ones i found most drastic. Some suggestions to make the pony into a real threat are:

1. Make weapons other than greatsword viable; bring up their skills to the usefulness of the greatsword, and rework the skills themselves; random conditions on your skills on an obviously non-condition oriented class is just a waste.
2. Possibly rework 100b, maybe lower the damage but make it mobile.
3. Rework some of the utilities, lower cooldowns (fear me).
4. Fix the swords, increase the bleed durations, rework the skills to make it easier to apply bleeds if possible. At least double the bleed duration on the burst.
5. Fix the collision issues that cause bulls charge to miss, and fix movement skills so you dont end up sword rushing into a wall for 3 seconds while you get pounded on.

Anyways, just some thoughts. I also propose that from now on, we only refer to warriors as either pony warriors, pony tricks, or simply pony’s, until Anet decides to make them an actual class, and not just a build.

Right now the warrior is nothing more than an extremely glass cannon one-button-wonder with virtually no survivability and very little viability in pvp. Something needs to change.

Here is what i have gathered from playing the warrior in pvp, and why it is not currently viable:

1. Terrible condition removal and healing; unless you want to constantly switch to your horn and blow all your shout cooldowns just to remove a condition that will most likely be immediately reapplied. But hey, that works for them, because if you are horn specced, chances are you have kitten for damage anyways, so you’ll still be useless. Your heals are all long cooldowns, and the only good heal is the one that gives you HP based on your adren level (around 9k), plus refills your adrenaline bar. The healing signet is by far the worst heal in the game, and isnt even for the briefest moment considered when making a build. This also ties in with your laughable mobility; no way to reset the fight except by blowing all your movement skills to try to run away.

2. No class diversity; you arent a warrior, you are a 100b. That is your class name. If you try to use something that doesnt in some way incorporate 100b, then you are a jelly brain, and you arent welcome in my or anyone else’s group, and you can gtfo.

3. Since you are a 100b, that means 2 of 3 traits are picked for you: Frenzy and bull charge. That leaves one choice, and boy, what to choose. Fear me is extremely situational, endure pain doesnt endure pain, banners? (huehuelol), signet? maybe (not really)… basically leaving just one that can be “useful” at any time: balanced stance.
- By useful i mean you can balanced stance to guarantee stomp someone (if they dont do the 10000 possible things to evade stomp), or revive someone (if you dont insta die to AOE), or to stop someone from knocking you over for 8 seconds (because it matters if your 100b warrior is currently knocked down, right?)… or finally to ensure that your 100b combo wont be disrupted by anyone (though it will most likely still miss due to random evades, bad collision, or blinding powder/ageis and every other thing that makes your chance of 100b’ing someone good around 1/10).

4. Broken/useless traits and utility. Traits that increase damage by paltry amounts (5%) based on random situational conditions are almost always a waste. Traits and skills that activate invulnerability are mostly useless and in the wrong trees. Invulnerability skills are useless; endure pain lasts for 3 seconds and doesnt give stability or block condition damage. If you even try to spec defensively, say good bye to at least 20% of your damage, just for the ability to… uhh… remove a few conditions, and hit balanced stance when you get to 50% life (because you’ll definetly only ever get to 50% from being CC’d), or endure pain at 25% life (which to a 100b is about 5k health) so you can still die to condition damage. The only viable trait lines are those that increase your precision, crit damage, and damage increase, because as a 100b, your only goal is damage.

5. Unviability of almost every weapon except the greatsword and possibly the warhammer.
Swords – useless due to low duration bleeds, and resultant inability to bleed stack effectively; useless burst.
Longbow – a complete joke of a weapon; low damage and slow auto attack, random skills that are extremely situational to the point of uselessness; useless burst.
Mace – another useless weapon; higher damage but slow; virtually useless compared to the warhammer; decent burst.
Horn – not even worth swapping from your greatsword.

daydream.2938:

The problem is that they eventually plan to have Lan tournaments.
In a lan, you wont be able to use macros cause they can PHYSICALLY see you.

So, anyone planning to be a top player is better off not macroing anyway.

Macros in this game are only useful for 2-3 skill combinations, which are easily hittable on your own. Macros really shouldnt make a difference. If they do, its the games fault, not the macros.

Yeah downed state is so cool and revolutionary. I never know whats gunna happen next when i down that ele. Man OMG my heart just jumps when i am about to stomp him and he goes mist form, holy kitten that was unexpected. Man it blew my mind when that thief teleported and then went invisible, and when that mesmer teleport blink illusioned for 2 minutes just to waste everyone’s time.

I cant believe its not butter!

Atlanis.6597:

Sand Beagle.9867:

Macroing or scripting (semantic difference) will never be bannable, because there is nothing wrong with doing it. If any proficient scripter wanted they could just make a random number generator, and every sleep function could call to that generator and pick a number between x and y, which would make it virtually indistinguishable from human input.

Example i made in 10 seconds: (AutoIT)

hotkeyset(“{F1}”,“attack”)
func attack()
$pause1 = random(20,30,0) ;min 20|max30 (floating point)
$pause2 = random(245,255,0) ;min 245|max 255
send(“a”)
sleep($pause1) ;wait x milliseconds
send(“b”)
sleep($pause2)
send(“c”)
EndFunc

It could obviously be easily expanded.

Edit: What they need are internal/global cooldowns that prevent hitting certain skills together within a fraction of a second. Maybe add diminishing returns, or something like the re-stealth cooldown.

Macroing and scripting are actually both currently bannable in almost every online game in existence. Only a few MMOs allow scripting, and even then only in their built-in restricted environments. You’re absolutely wrong on all of your points.

As for GW2 specifically, using macros and scripts are both bannable, no matter what you use them for. This precedent was established way back in the days of MUDs and will not change anytime soon. People playing GW2 should be rewarded for their skill in playing GW2, not their skill in scripting or macroing.

Also, this game isn’t built for GCDs. That’s why most skills have cast times. If thieves are able to activate their abilities too quickly through the use of macros, ban the people using macros and increase the cast time on the abilities to make macroing no advantage over normal ability usage. (This has the problem that instant-cast abilities such as signets are instant-cast so that they can be reliably combo’d without breaking the cast of other abilities. It’d require discretion on ANet’s part to pick and choose how to deal with the situation, something that they’ve shown the capability of doing over the past decade.O

GW2 has no clear stance on macroing. They dont properly define it, and they cant detect it. They dont differentiate macroing from scripting (as most try and fail to do), and they cant tell what macros are from your hardware’s software (keyboard/mouse), and by macroing software. If they allow one, they allow the other. If they allow neither but cant actually detect it, its as good as legal.

Your second paragraph is all over the place and is allofmywat. This precedent? What? Established back in the days of MUDs, and thats why it is bannable in GW2? What? Plenty of games allow macroing, if not only because they cant do anything about it.

Your solution to increase delays only hampers everyone, as anyone can quickly hit keys. The simple fact is there is no way to prevent macroing and there is no reason to, as long as the game is properly designed. You cant ban the people using macros because you cant tell who is using them. You seem to just be making random claims and random arguments to try to prove a random point.

They cant even have a punkbuster type anticheat that scans for macro programs because they would end up kicking/banning anyone with razer/logitech hardware. They cant even scan for artificial keystrokes because they mimic the same action as human keystrokes.

There really is nothing they can do about macroing besides making macros useless in their game through things like a queue system, global/internal cooldowns etc.

Macroing or scripting (semantic difference) will never be bannable, because there is nothing wrong with doing it. If any proficient scripter wanted they could just make a random number generator, and every sleep function could call to that generator and pick a number between x and y, which would make it virtually indistinguishable from human input.

Example i made in 10 seconds: (AutoIT)

hotkeyset(“{F1}”,“attack”)
func attack()
$pause1 = random(20,30,0) ;min 20|max30 (floating point)
$pause2 = random(245,255,0) ;min 245|max 255
send(“a”)
sleep($pause1) ;wait x milliseconds
send(“b”)
sleep($pause2)
send(“c”)
EndFunc

It could obviously be easily expanded.

Edit: What they need are internal/global cooldowns that prevent hitting certain skills together within a fraction of a second. Maybe add diminishing returns, or something like the re-stealth cooldown.

Paids in general are insulting, paying them money so you can pvp is a complete joke. All it has done is segregated the pvp community between those who arent mentally deficient, and those who are skilled enough to win the majority of the time. They also need more game types. Conquest alone is beyond boring; TDM, CTF, GvG etc are needed to make this game interesting. Right now its a joke to even be called a pvp game.

I would avoid condition specs on a warrior. The dual swords would be great, IF the bleed durations were doubled for each skill. The dual swords can really only ever keep around 10 bleed stacks on someone at a time. I say that knowing someone is going to chime in mentioning the burst, but the burst is pure kitten. It stacks a bunch of bleeds on someone doing a big ultra mega cool goku combo animation, but the bleeds last for like 2 seconds, making them worse than like two 10 second bleed stacks.

Overall go with the greatsword and axe/shield or rifle if you want to be successful as a warrior. Without greatsword the warrior is useless in pvp. We are forced into this 100b role because every other weapon we have sucks. The axes are useless besides eviscerate, the rifle ruined by horrible game mechanics that not only result in constant “obstructed/miss/invulnerable,” but the shots that would land are exploited simply by moving past the character, which instantly cancels any skills (ie volley).

If you want to be successful in general, choose another class, because warrior is virtually useless in tpvp. I never will because the other classes are kitten compared to the warrior (or what the warrior should have been), but if you do stick with it, dont expect people to take you in groups as a warrior.

Just some advice.

I think a warrior should also get a portal ability. Perhaps the warrior’s elite skill can cause him to go into a rage-induced supersonic frenzy and hundred blades the very fabric of time and space itself, and create a wormhole to a location of his choosing.

The theory behind this is the warrior’s god-like combination of quickness, power, and precision, which allows him to use immense angular momentum to alter the subatomic rotation of the matter around him, consequently changing the conformation of elementary particles, specifically gravitons, and altering their inter-molecular forces, creating a tunnel through time and space.

Also the hawking radiation generated by the creation of this wormhole causes condition damage to all targets who pass through/near it and has an aoe-damage radius of 450 units. Cooldown: 240 seconds. Activation time: 10 seconds.

Fourth.1567:

Interesting idea but I think this is a work around to a design problem. The real problem is outside directly communicating the game does not supply information about what is happening elsewhere and is very harsh on organizing solo que players. The map UI just needs to be drastically improved along with the 101 other things.

Yeah i agree, i’d like it if there was some way to distinguish the teammate location dots on the minimap, perhaps by color coding by class or by assignment. I’d also like them to fix the minimap region, as i like to be zoomed out to see all 3 nodes, but at that distance they are too transparent to easily see, or not visible at all. I havent found a way to fix that. I also feel that the minimap maximum size is too small sometimes, and i would like to be able to expand it since my resolution is so high.

Oracle Fefe.5078:

Too much micromanagement and not truely needed with a good team and team speaks. Also, if I’m correct, you’ll be hogging a lot of download speed from your ISP which could theoretically lag your game, especially with family members using their computers.

As for enemy teams, the really lucky or serious ones will buy a service that can use a delay server.

Well i calculated it out to being around the same network bandwidth as one 1080p stream, if all 5 streams are in 360p (it should be one outgoing 360p upload, and 4 incoming 360p download streams).

I thought it may have some specific use, perhaps even just having one person stream his screen, like a bunker or roamer or something. I just figured it might be a good idea, and it feels to me like it would be the natural progression of competitive play.

I am sure someone could find a competitive advantage in streaming to teammates.

For me, on twitch.tv there was around a 3-5 second lag, but i dont know how to use/optimize it, and there may be other programs or dedicated servers that could result in a more instant stream time.

They need CTF, TDM, GvG, maybe KotH (one node), and all the rest. I cant belive they’ve gone this long with only a conquest type.

Well i meant it might be able to augment your communication, and not used for watching everyone’s screen at all times. For instance you might be able to use all 5 screens together to map out the enemy team’s location more easily.

What if you are a bunker guardian and you dont have anyone at your point currently, so you watch your teammate’s screens and by deductive reasoning determine where each enemy player is and who is likely to attack you. Another example could be to have your bunker guardian on keep always looking out over the map or something. It might augment a roamer’s ability as well.

Those are just examples, and probably not good ones. I am sure some pro’s will have much better ideas.

Also, you can process visual information more quickly than auditory, so it should be useful in some way. Even if you could discern 4 other people talking at the same time, it would take longer to process that information.

Think: Text → Audio → Visual

What if in sPvP each player (or select players) of a 5v5 team streams his game to twitch TV at some Non-HD resolution (minimal network impact), and every player has every other players’ streams open in a window beside their game?

That way each team mate can see everything their other team mates can see at all times.

There is only around a 5 second delay from streaming.

Has this been done before, and would this be useful or pose any advantage?