Guild Wars 2

Pyrial.2917:

That’s great and well written, but in the context of gameplay is completely wrong. Good players AND bad players both ask why…just as both good players and bad players ask how

Well i was making the assumption that good players dont want to accuse, and bad players do. In that context the good player will use how (if he understands the difference).

This is also ignoring obvious implications. When you imply something and the other person understands your implication, it doesnt really matter how you say it, your question will always come off as accusatory.

Since i believe implication (over VOIP anyways) is registered probably only by tone, it depends how you ask your question. If the level headed good player asks “how do they have mid and home capped?” in a calm voice, and the bad player aggressively/angirly w/e asks “why do they have mid and home capped?” in raging nerd voice, the “why” will always be more accusatory.

Then though you have to define a good player and a bad player, so in the end, there is no real debate.

O S I A S.5460:

@ Pyrial, Lets focus on why we are loosing instead of how we can win.

I agree its valid, but does not have the effect you want.

Edited to Add

Lets look at this from another direction.

Why is the past, How is the future. In all discussions about why is always after the fact. The past is important if you do not want to repeat it, thats insanity if it was not positive. How is the future, how are you going to adapt, how are you going to change the outcome, how are you going to win.

Teams that are loosing and decide to focus on the why, never live in the present and thus never change the outcome of the future.

Why/how do not have a temporal tense.

However OP is right about the distinction between how and why. Aggressive and bad/inexperienced players do usually say “why”, and OP is right in saying the reason is to assert blame and shift attention away from themselves. It is probably just a defense mechanism caused by the desire to appear competent in front of others. Level-headed and experienced players who understand this distinction generally would say how because they know it is less identifying than why, and they dont want to point blame, even if someone obviously is to blame. How can be used more as a passive suggestion rather than an aggressive or outright accusation that why sometimes causes. How does not presume to accuse, but why does.

This is because how and why are not interchangable and have separate grammatical interrogatory functions/roles, and they also have ingrained societal meanings.

For instance:

Asking someone with a gun “How did a bullet get shot into this wall?” cannot be replaced by “Why did a bullet get shot into this wall?” (or the more correct “Why is there a bullet in this wall?”). While possibly not immediately apparent, “how” is not accusing, but inquiring the specific information pertaining to the bullet and how it came to be in the wall. Why, though is not necessarily inquiring about the bullet specifically, but rather uses it as a bridge to connect you with the gun and the wall, and would be considered accusatory.

You have to differentiate though, and this is what might confuse people: “How come” and “how” are not the same. How come is an informal way of saying why.

hharry.1967:

Eles are fine…. stuck them to 1 ele LOLOL thats like ruining the whole class purpose.

How about 1 immobilize right when he uses ride the lightning? You know they lose all their skills and cant do anything not even cancel it while moving in ride the lightning right? So ya, he cant remove immobilize, there you go, he just got stuck in place for around 3 seconds without being able to do anything.

uhh, well the thing is depending on the class your immobilize is usually a short range attack, so besides predicting the future and immobilizing a second before they trigger ride the lightning, it would take you half a second to react to their ride the lightning and then ~half a second for the immobilize attack animation to finish. By then they are probably already out of range.

anyways lol that kind of “adaptation” logic is what ruins a game, regardless of whether OP’s point is valid or not.

Mistform stomping is obviously an unintended bug that exploits shoddy game mechanics. If it wasnt, you’d be able to stomp someone while in mistform, rather than having to trigger the stomp animation and then pop mistform.

You also have to consider this:
Mistform = invincibility + stability
1. The invincibility prevents you or your teammates from hurting the ele.
2. The stability prevents you or your teammates from disrupting the ele’s actions.

In this state the ele is unstoppable in whatever actions it is allowed to commit. I believe the only actions originally intended for the ele in mistform state is movement. Anything else and you have the ability to entirely overpower your enemy with absolute impunity.

Such absolution should be extremely conditional, or really not exist at all in a pvp game, since as a guaranteed outcome, it removes any skill factor present in the game. Mistform stomping fully overrides you and your team’s skill, teamwork, strategy, and communication, and provides the ele a guaranteed outcome in his favor.

I propose they either prevent mistform stomping, or make it so you can stomp properly in mistform (ie not have to trigger the animation and then pop it), but remove the stability, so the ele has to use stability + mistform if he wants a guaranteed stomp.

ahem (nerd screech) EHM, WHAY IS X AT Y AND NOT AT Z? OMYGOT! ANY1? OOOMYYYGOT… kitten THIS X YOU ARE A kittenING kitten THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT ARE YOU BRAIN DEAD WHY DO YOU OMYGOT.

“Tryhard Nerd has left the server.”

They need a title for hours spent in the mist afk, talking kitten, and playing mapchat online.

How about “Mist Talker” ??

pinkglow.3429:

Well, there will probably always be certain builds that outperform others, but they can change somehow. The meta so far has just had tweaking to the good builds, a guardian is always some kind of bunker, mesmer are glass, thieves are glass, warriors are glass, engineers has been bunkers, rangers has barely been played. Elementalists, however, have had viable glass builds but also viable bunker builds so that’s probably the only profession that has had viable options.
I dont know exactly how to change it, I think overall weapons needs to be looked through, each profession has some weapons they never use… and the devs should think about why. I liked the idea of weapon swapping when first hearing about the game, but however it didnt turn out as flexible as I thought since strong builds makes each professions locked with certain weapon builds, and add to that traits build it’s kind of boring now.

Yes the main problem is an overabundance of useless traits, utility, and skills. They mostly all sound good on paper, or make a newbie go “Wow!” but in practice they are all either too situational, broken, or just weak. This leads to one or two paths for each class, and low diversity in pvp.

Also maybe they need to separate pvp from pve more, which will allow them to better balance the game. They should create pvp-specific trait trees, which include existing traits and new traits that are specifically designed to be viable in pvp. They also need to look at either making pvp specific utility, or really work on buffing some utility skill. There are just too many useless utility skills for pvp.

When i was new to the game and i thought warrior’s could be competitive in pvp.
When i am not new to the game and i still play a warrior in pvp.

Vote mesmer #1 troll class in gw2

No Walking.6349:

Sand Beagle.9867:

Why not something simple like letting pvper’s equip their pvp gear as clothing in pve lands, and let pver’s equip their pve gear as clothing in the mist. That way everyone can look cool and show off their status and it wont impact actual gameplay.

I think that’s a terrible idea unless there is some way to make it purely cosmetic. The gear for PvE and SPvP is vastly different in the way it works anyways.

But seriously, all SPvP needs is XP for the toon you’re on, and gold. I’d be happy.

I meant allow equipping them as “town clothing,” which would be cosmetic only.

2v2, 3v3, 5v5 deathmatch with custom arena maps would be great. i’d like to see some 5v5 and 8v8 CTF as well. 1v1 i dont think will ever be popular since it only favors a few select builds and classes and will never be competitive.

The best thing ever would be the creation of a very large CTF map maybe twice the size of foefire that could accommodate up to 32 players (16v16), complete with trebs, cannons, fully defendable bases (similar to foefire), and even maybe an underwater region in the middle of the map that gives short-cuts/alternate routes to each base.

With CTF the guardians could bunker, the warriors could 100b, the mesmers could portal (maybe need some restrictions), etc etc. Everyone would be happy. I think CTF, while probably less competitive in a “hardcore esports” sense, is a lot more accommodating and balanced for each class, as in there is something for everyone, and you arent forced into a specific build or playstyle. Plus who doesnt love CTF in games?

Yes, hot joins really are a complete waste, especially – and read this with the emphasis of 1000 underlines – _____for new players_____.

Here is a quick list of why hotjoins are a complete abomination in GW2 pvp:
1. Teaches you improper ways of playing your class/build; you get in the habit of doing things you shouldnt be doing on your character.
2. It teaches you absolutely nothing about teamwork and communication; complete pandemonium.
3. It prepares you for fighting completely disorganized teams who also have no communication.
4. You dont learn how to fight specific team builds that are frequently encountered in tpvp; ie you end up fighting 3 warriors, 3 thieves, and 2 guardians.
6. You dont learn anything about competitive strategy whether it is character, team, or map specific, such as who to expect to contest your node and where to be at specific times in each map.
7. All you learn is how to mash buttons and roll from node to node and farm points by getting hits on as many people as possible.

Going from this to tpvp (especially paids) is like going from flipping and flapping around with your Toys R Us snorkel kit complete with aquaman flippers to being dragged down 100 feet by some sort of ultra vortex to wrestle with sharks and killer whales (with no oxygen supply).

Nier.2478:

Sand Beagle.9867:

Hi guise, warrior LF right to tpvp. My hotjoin permit isnt enough anymore. I want to ride in the front of the bus.

Maybe listen to good Warriors for advice instead of blaming the class if its not cutting it for you? I mean you use FGJ, Bulls Charge, and Frenzy so you CLEARLY need to improve and in dire need of help, why are you hesitating to ask for help?

Seriously, part of the reason why a class gets bad reception is because people don’t want to listen to people who know wth they’re talking about and thinks they’re already at a full potential to be saying jack about the class.

The real problem right now as Lowell state is that Ele and Mesmers are just too good. Believe me, Thief is a million times more balanced than those two other classes compared to Warriors.

ahahauheue who said i use only FGJ BC and frenzy? who said that i need help in the first place? who said i dont know what im talking about? who said i am ignoring other people who know what they are talking about? who said i think i have 100% understanding of the warrior?

i dont really care about the ele and mesmer. the ele is obviously annoying-tier, and as a warrior it takes a lot more effort to take them down with their high defense, but the mesmer is just a troll class.

i dont get your last statement “the thief is a million times more balanced compared to those two other classes compared to warriors,” but regardless warrior is in need of dire fixing, and thief is slightly less of a troll class than mesmer. i know you can be all cool with your scripts and do uber backstab combos or w/e but really they are just the kind of class you ignore because if you pay attention to them, you only feed their desire to be more useless/annoying.

also please provide some form of actual counter argument, such as suggesting what you believe is a more viable build for warrior, since you take so much time to criticize me and my supposed build.

Why not something simple like letting pvper’s equip their pvp gear as clothing in pve lands, and let pver’s equip their pve gear as clothing in the mist. That way everyone can look cool and show off their status and it wont impact actual gameplay.

robocafaz.9017:

I’d love to know your secrets, Nick. I’ve been maining a Warrior since the first beta weekend and haven’t been able to find a build that I’m comfortable with for sPvP.

hue how ’bout 100b?

Hi guise, warrior LF right to tpvp. My hotjoin permit isnt enough anymore. I want to ride in the front of the bus.

Niujin.7429:

Why is this still around?

I’ve created a thief to try it myself and:

1- Didn’t find any leak in the build, if not for the low amount of health it provides (trivial tho, considering the self healing the thief gets back from its passive).

2- It’s extremely easy to play. I had never played thief before and could get the grasp of the thing in no time, whereas whenever I tried any other different thief build in no way could I pull out such an outcome with little to no effort.

How can one counter it?

I’d rather have the old backstab and see this stuff nerfed, instead of the other way around. The dodge on deathblossom is way too strong.

Its actually pretty kitten and rarely used outside of hotjoins. Anything that can remove conditions, or anyone who is decent at evading destroys that build. Not to mention anything more than a 1v1 against you and you’re useless and dead in seconds unless you constantly run. Good players will stay out of the caltrops and range you down or let you burn all your CD’s and burst you when you’re out of initiative.

You might be able to kill some warriors though, but all in all there are better and more effective builds out there for a thief.

inb4 they add a barbarian who dual wields greatswords, has one weapon set, medium armor, immune to backstab, and can go berserk once per day.

I’ve always found down states to be full kitten but apparently the majority of the top-tier disagrees. I’ve always felt that if you’re down, you’re down. I dont have a problem with being down in itself, i like the idea of being able to “battle-rez,” and i think it adds to the teamplay factor.

However, for example, say my whole team just 5v1 sodomized you in every way imaginable, full gang kitten prison style, and instead of being knocked the kitten out and unable to sit for a week, you fall on your kitten and start throwing 2k rocks at me and spamming invis/teleports and turn this into cirque de soleil online while we run about trying to once again kill a guy we just killed.

Obv this has been exaggerated, but the point remains that once you get downed, you should be down (ie unable to fight).

When rocky got knocked the kitten out by Mr T did he instantly wake up, regain all his stamina, and start ferociously kicking T’s shins for 2k dps? No. When arnie was downed by the T-1000 and got impaled in the back in T2, did he mistform to negate the impaling damage and start shooting electricity out of his hands at the T-1000? No. When Leonidas got barrage shotted by a bunch of kitten longbow rangers, did he fall to the ground, throw a KD hammer at Xerxes, wait ~8 seconds, stand up, and start 100bing everyone around him, get a random vengeance kill, then sword rush away at 20mph alive? NO. etc

Arheundel.6451:

A) Sustained dmg axe/eviscerate warrior
B) Hammer support/spike calling warrior

I have never seen a successful ballerina warrior with dem dual axes. In the end you do mediocre damage in between periodic 8k eviscerates, and usually dont live long enough to do more than 2 before you get buttpunished for not being 100b.

Hammer warrior is cool and all, but as you are talking teamplay, why is it beneficial to the team to have 1/4 of a real class running around spamming CC’s when he could be doing something more productive.

Royce.6835:

actually, i just tried several variations of balanced builds. that’s the problem with warrior. their traits are subpar and do not allow them to build defensively without being SEVERELY outclassed.

please. do not make me post clips of my damage on a dummy showing you the differences. the defense gain is NOT high enough for the dps loss. my dps is divided by 3-4. that’s way too high. i don’t like how you talk as if you know all this and tested it.. because i know for a fact if you really tested it, you wouldn’t be here arguing with me, you’d be agreeing that warriors need changes to their defensive capabilities.

that’s what this thread is about, or at least what most of the people in this thread agree on. it’s that we don’t WANT to play our warriors like thieves or assassin glass cannons. we want the ability to diversify without gimping ourselves severely.

His numbers are all off. Some people just dont understand that warrior’s cant feasibly spec defense. The class itself just doesnt have enough natural defense to make it worth the loss in damage. Horrible heals, terribad condition removal, no defensive utility skills, broken kitten endure pain, etc make it all pointless.

Why would someone want a bunker warrior who cant bunker and cant dps on their team in the first place. The only way a warrior is going to get picked for tpvp is if he brings his 100b and glass bones.

define meta please, the word used in this context really bothers me

it makes me think of bro science, i’m not sure why

Its due to the range on stomping. You can stomp someone from deceivably far distances, most likely due to the asura-norn character size problem, with everyone having the same massive hitbox.

So people can stand outside your aoe CC type effects and still stomp you/attack you.

Its one of the reasons why sanctuary is so ungodly broken.

Braxxus.2904:

Ele’s take far more player skill to utilize than any warrior spec. Warriors aren’t complicated to play, they’re just poorly designed. It’s sad that you’re still so bad at video games you think a basic A-B class design like warriors are more complex than playing a d/d ele.
You’ve also been kittening about eles for a long time now. Really bugs you getting rolled by a higher skill ceiling class doesn’t it? Because that’s really what it looks like.
No offense.
/eyeroll

I am not sure what you were trying to say about A-B, but i am assuming you are saying warriors are “linear” and eles are, what, triangles?

The real skill ceiling in gw2 is in team play not individual class play. At best, Ele just has 10 more skill buttons to hit than other classes. As far as inter-attunement combos, well they are all extremely simple and intuitive, so i wouldnt say the ele is a “complex” class (nor any gw2 class).

As far as the D/D ele vs warrior, well, both have virtually one good build, but as you can see:
D/D ele:
1. High defense, average HP, extremely tanky.
2. Good mobility in combat and non-combat.
3. Good DPS and even burst.
4. Excellent teamwork capability like dual ele cross-healing.
5. Constant healing/regen potential.
6. Great condition removal.
7. Good CC
8. Panic buttons that are great at escaping burst like mistform and teleport.
9. Multiple ways to reset a fight.

100b warrior:
1. Low defense, medium-high HP, glass cannon.
2. Average non-combat mobility, mediocre combat mobility.
3. Average DPS, and good but extremely predictable burst (not to mention bull charge has bad pathfinding issues).
4. Very limited teamwork capability unless you use warhammer and battle standard (which limits your damage/burst potential).
5. Very very bad healing, all 3 warrior heals are bad and dont scale well with a warrior’s high natural HP
6. Dreadful condition removal.
7. Bad CC, only bullscharge, unless you use warhammer (even then there is no “selfish” use for the warhammer since the warrior cant do much once they knock someone down except to land half a 100b combo).
8. No panic buttons, unless you count a 3 second kitten-tier invulnerability that doesnt even stop condition damage.
9. No way to reset the fight unless you count leaving melee range to run away (barely even out of 900-1200 range) to wait for your mediocre heal to come up.

There are obviously more reasons, but i think this kind of sums it up.

Which class really takes the most skill to be effective at.

zone.1073:

The key is burst, but patience with burst. Force the ele into a situation where they must mist form prematurely. Then burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnibXlp2vQg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxyy5Q-834

First vid it looks like you lived, or at least killed him at that point because of a bug that should have been fixed a long time ago; at your level i am sure you are fully aware of it.

Second vid is cool.

But you cant deny warriors need work.

Oh yes, Warrior (aka pony trick, one button wonder, etc.) is by far the most weak and most useless class in the game.

1. Cannot bunker.
2. Mediocre dps considering the risk of having to always be in a group of enemies to do damage.
3. Has horrid survivability; no way to survive damage, unless you sonic the hedgehog away out of range and wait for your 1/5 total HP heal to come off cooldown.
4. Has no way to reset a fight, again unless you count blowing all your cooldowns to roadrunner away only to get ranged down “resetting a fight.”
5. Cannot roam due to 2-4.
6. Only viable burst combo is the most predictable and avoidable attack in the game, not to mention it suffers from horrible pathfinding issues (bulls charge).
7. Only 1 viable build
Need i go on?

Onshidesigns.1069:

Sand Beagle.9867:

Onshidesigns.1069:

I agree with for the fact that Black & White are not colors.

Ahueheueh, white is in fact a color, although it lacks a “hue.” White as we see it is the mergence of all wavelengths of the color spectrum. Black however is not a color, as it does not emit light.

Black is still called a color though because who wants to be that anal about colors

White is not a color! I understand how light works a little better then you.

Light is both particle and wave at the same time. You can not see the wave properties of light.

This is the same with everything else in the universe. When you don’t observe a object it is a wave to you. When you do observe a object you see to as particles.

What does that have to do with colors? It the basic physics definition of light is irrelevant, all that matters is that our eyes are sensitive to the EM spectrum, and how our brains process it. White is a color, technically an “additive” color/non-spectral color, but a color all the same.

If you want to get more technical, the color of an object that you perceive is the wavelength that the object reflects, which enters your eyes. Therefore a banana reflects yellow light, and snow reflects all wavelengths, giving the color of white.

To say white isnt a color is to say color doesnt exist, and before you try to say its not a color since it isnt an actual EM wavelength, consider purple. Purple doesnt exist as a wavelength, but as a combination of blue and red, which is processed by our brains as purple.

While purple and white could be considered “non-spectral” colors, they are still colors.

Chi Malady.2015:

Solo queue
Voice chat
Ladder
Spectator mode

The population would explode with these additions.

One game type
Conquest game mode
Broken classes – useless/broken skills, traits, utility
Pathfinding issues (mobility skills)
Infuriatingly vague and incorrect tooltips and skill/trait descriptions
Pay to play/pvp “tickets”
3 maps
No current ability to improve at a significant pace; fight either team hercule and stomp them or team goku and get obliterated (due to the polarized player population and small amount of pvpers, leading to extremes in skill, and resulting in few middle-range pvpers)
etc etc

Fixing these would bring back a kitten ton more players than adding end-game things spectator mode to a game that is basically still in beta.

aheuheue

How to get good:
1. Farm glory until rank 30 in hotjoins
2. Spam in mist chat “r30 LF serious pvp guild”
3. Get rejected because you dont have QP
4. Do random pug paids until you have QP
5. Spam n mist chat “r30 LF serious pvp guild, have QP”
6. Get rejected because you arent rank 40 now
7. Glory farm hotjoins until rank 40
8. Spam in mist chat “r40 lf serious pvp guild, have QP”
9. Join “up and coming” guild that accepts low QP and low high tier pvp rank
10. Get stomped repeatedly 500-0 by one of the top QP guilds on NA/EU that are always on when paids pop.
11. Get flawlessed by team goku while you train hard with krillen and yajirobe and aspire to one day achieve sayian status even though the audience knows you will never be on par with goku because you are a secondary character.

ahauaheuehe

felivear.1536:

Also, one of my bigger complaints about the combat in this game (even though I love it) is the visual cues. First, there are far too many combat effects blinding me to be able to make out specific animations, let alone the fact that there is such a disparity between races (ie. Norn / Asura). In the heat of battle where particles are flying like lightning all over my screen, there is no way I can tell if that Asuran character is casting a super blaster 9000.

There be a kittenstorm a brewin.

(also reason why this game will never be esport)

ah hah hah ahaeueheueheue

Red Falcon.8257:

Warrior simply lacks deeper mechanics that other classes have and suffers from this.
Thief can rely on stealth, Mesmer on decoying, Eles on burst/healing, Guardian on defense/healing, etc…
Warrior can rely on a few, predictable, short-lived tools to let them survive a bit more, and that’s about it – you rely the most on luck that blowing out all your stuff correctly will kill him before he kills you.

Warrior skills are divided in 4 branches for me:
Gimmick skills -> 100B and the like, predictable, easy to break out off/avoid, inefficient in any remotely serious setting.
Bugged skills -> Rush, Bull, Bolas, Earthshaker and a few others that are bugged and can fail by default due to inner bugs. Sadly these also happen to be fundamental skill, if they worked.
Survival skills -> Defy/Endure Pain predictable and too short duration, Shield block (this one is actually decent), and that’s about it really. Shout healing is a joke against anyone with a brain.
Control skills -> There is some good stuff here, but again like survival skills they are nerfed in a way that they are simply not enough to do the job.

I won’t even talk about weapon skills, every weapon is a clone.
1. autoattack
2. vuln/block or some other rarely useful skill
3. cripple
4-5. some semi-useful CC (usually a tad bugged).

I find the Warrior’s innate bugginess, clunkiness and lack of depth to be just an impairment to my skills.

PS:
I’d really like all these elitists who claim the Warrior is fine and it’s a L2P issue to post their videos, tpvp position and ranks because it sounds like a whole lot of bull to me.
If you’re all that good and know all these things why don’t you show it then? I bet that you’re just another dual axe/rifle noobrior who thinks killing unaware people in WvW counts toward your leetness.
Or perhaps one of those mace/shield warriors who achieve nothing but finishing other people’s kills and think it’s their merit.

I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said, spot on. If these issues with pathfinding on movement skills and the non-existent weapon diversity could get fixed, warrior might actually be included in pvp, without any further skill/utility/trait adjustments.

i dont see how rune stacking is an exploit. its an obvious intended feature of the game or they wouldnt have rune level specific bonuses.

Thats kind of sad, especially since the game has already been out for so long now. 6 more months of the same increasingly dull game mode…

Something so simple as multiple game modes should have been out at launch.

Or is gw2 still in beta

daydream.2938:

Eles come down a notch.
Warriors/engies come up a notch.

more variety of viable builds.

I think first they need to fix the pathfinding issues with warrior movement skills and bring up the other weapons, because really only the gs and greathammer have good weapon skills. Then they can look at buffing the warriors traits and utilities and stuff.

What is everyone’s opinion on new game modes such as capture the flag, team death match, 1v1, 2v2, guild v guild, etc.

I for one really want to see capture the flag and team death match, as the warrior could probably pretty useful, unlike in “conquest.”

Also i cant believe the game has been out for almost half a year and only has one game mode in pvp.

It would be really nice to get some variety in here, because months of one game mode is getting stale fast.

Onshidesigns.1069:

I agree with for the fact that Black & White are not colors.

Ahueheueh, white is in fact a color, although it lacks a “hue.” White as we see it is the mergence of all wavelengths of the color spectrum. Black however is not a color, as it does not emit light.

Black is still called a color though because who wants to be that anal about colors

Wreckdum.8367:

I think some people keep nailing it right on the head… ANet has said since launch warrior is exactly where they want it to be. That’s why every patch there are no changes to the warrior except spelling errors in tooltips. So if every other class does everything better they’re just going to get brought down. Who cares if it takes them 6 months it’s not like there is anything going on in the mists anyway.

As far as all their weapon sets I’ve said over and over in this thread and I’ll continue to say it. GS offers the least versatility other than BC, frenzy, HB and a bit of mobility. If you only have one attack the enemy will always outplay you. Axe/mace and hammer is by far my favorite setup that offers the most control and options. Personally I never run with bulls charge on my bar. But if you added that to axe/mace and hammer. That’s almost 10 seconds of stun/knockdown. I’ll take that over a frenzy HB burst any day.

I don’t know why we’re all ignoring the elephant in the room that more than half the classes in this game are OP and the game is no where near ready for competitive play. There is no reason to buff the warrior when everything is working fine. Other classes with endless mobility options need to be brought down to having escapes but not endless escapes.

Instead of putting the fire to the developer to make a really competitive game everyone is in here arguing over broken classes and game imbalance.

I disagree about the GS being the least useful. Every greatsword skill is extremely useful, and i think the greatsword is probably the best weapon in the game in terms of skills. It is probably one of the if not the most versatile weapons in the game.

1. Autoattack is very strong and reasonably fast, can crit for 2k+ on regular swings.
2. 100b
3. Whirlwind, one of the better skills in the game, can hit for 8k+ on crits, can be used for mobility, and does aoe damage; also short cooldown.
4. Bladetrail is 900 range, gives basically a 5 second cripple, AND can hit the target twice for around 2k+ per.
5. Rush is a 1200 range fast moving attack that can be used for mobility and can also hit for 4k+ damage.

Really, to me, the other weapons are an absolute joke in comparison, and i think that might be one of the reasons why the only viable warrior temp is 100b atm. There is no reason not to use the greatsword when it has skills like that.

Fourth.1567:

I think we need some real perspective on this.

Warriors actually can do quite well in 2v2 and 3v3 setting when using builds similar to what Schwahrheit is inferring. Their 1v1 is actually pretty good as well but there are hard counters they will run into. Their 4v4 and 5v5 viability actually tends to be less than a GS/Axe warrior even though it looks like on paper these builds bring better group utility. This stems from the frame a warrior brings having a number of holes in it that become more prominent in a larger fight, limiting how long they can fight for and how much mileage they get from their better supportive aspects. A warrior just isn’t a risky target to focus, damage on them tends to stick even if they are spec’d defensively allowing them to be a great target to swap to. So for larger fights its best to front load their effects so you can actually get the full mileage out of that position.

Yep, to maximize effectiveness right now, all you can do is run glass cannon and do as much damage as possible in as little time as possible. With no real defense, you’re going to go down regardless, so there is little point in speccing for any sort of prolonged survivability, especially since it will almost always decrease your damage.

So that leads you to think, “well why not choose a class with comparative damage, but much more survivability” and there goes the warrior out of the window. Whether its straight up defense, or high mobility and the ability to easily reset the fight, other classes simply trump the warrior in terms of survivability.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I love warrior. it is very team viable. axe + gs is not the only build usable and most people do not know how to play against something other than axe gs.
axegs=dps dps dps nothing more
longbow + gs= dps aoe
mace + gs= control cc dps
bunker build= cleanses control

the 4 builds I play and each one has a niche. Svarheight is very brash in his comments but his messages are correct. Playing high level war is a L2p issue 60% snares 30% 10% build selection. Just play what works, who cares about variety. Bunkers play like 3 builds, same general idea. Thieves play like 3 builds same general idea. etc etc.

This is a team game use your team to your advantage and it will be easier. I think individual skill can be hidden in strong team play. Who cares if you can 1v1 if your team rotations always save you. Doesn’t matter if your squishy if your team will rez you every time. Can’t clear condi? thats why I only fight condi with support clears.

My point is just figure out how the class works with others, not just yourself. Much easier to land 100lbs in a team fight than in 1v1. But same goes for backstab as well.

The problem here and the point i keep making is this isnt a l2p issue, this is an inadequate class trying to compete at the same level of the other classes (the devs have even admitted the warrior needs a lot of work in competitive pvp). This is a team game, that is right, and if you cant maximize your team potential then what is the point. Other classes can do every role of the warrior better, so how is it an advantage for your team for you to play a warrior.

That is why there are rarely any competitive teams running the warrior. I dont agree about the 100b landing in 1v1 or team. Obviously the person will be relatively less aware of you but the game mechanics issues pretty much negate any advantage you might get, ie bulls charge hit detection problems.

Schwahrheit.4203:

No seriously let me point out how people sound like.

“Warriors have a hard time landing HB” -uses FGJ, Bulls Charge, Frenzy

“Bulls Charge + Frenzy is the only way to land HB” -thinks Axe + GS is the only way to play GS builds when Sword and Mace allows options to land HB.

“Warriors get wrecked by conditions” -doesn’t know how to trade hits with condition damage and doesn’t understand that SLOWS are the ones causing the problem.

“Warriors need people to babysit them” -uses bolas instead of balanced stance plus death from above to defend treb thinking people won’t expect it the next time they see him. Gets wrecked so bad the next time the same people meets him and complains about how hard it is to play a Warrior. Mind you this Warrior who I won’t mention won’t do anything if he doesn’t have cheese comps carrying him when its completely possible to self-sustain with a Warrior. You know who you are

Just proves. Warrior has mostly been an L2P issue all along. Minus the broken application of chill in which if it isn’t going to get revamped any time soon, might as well buff mobile strikes to deal with chill.

What the holy straw man are you talking about, and who is this supposed to be aimed at.

What does for great justice have to do with you landing a BC 100b?
Who said axe is the only weapon used with a 100b build?
Who said bulls charge is the only way to land a CC 100b?
Trade hits with condition damage? Wat? Trade hits with who?
Who uses bolas? Bolas have worse hit detection than bulls charge and are one of the least consistent projectiles in the game.
Why would a warrior defend treb?

You didnt prove anything at all, in fact this just makes you look extremely desperate, and only strengthens our arguments.

Schwahrheit.4203:

^
1.) Warrior AoE’s better than a Thief, let alone downs better than a Thief. More rewarding if you build around a Warrior with a good AoE knowledge and build, however 95% of Warriors aren’t worth building for cause simple-mind and lack of build knowledge.

Where’s my back up on this one? Compare combustive shot DPS to cluster bomb. Combustive shot wins by a long shot. Don’t even get me started on how HB is actually better team damage than back stab.

2.) Tank Warrior is more mobile than a Guardian, let alone sets up kills for the team easier while having on-demand slow cleanse for the team and himself. If you weren’t bad at this game then it should be obvious that there are plays you can do with mobility.

3.) Warrior compared to Ranger? Rangers can’t burst. Let alone punish harder than a Warrior who knows how to make Combustive Shot and HB do work in team fights. Like a Warrior can easily out-damage a Ranger in team play to be honest. Rangers have tankiness as a trade-off to having decent DPS. Warriors trade survivability for amazing AoE DPS.

Building a team around a Warrior isn’t a problem because guess what? What team isn’t going to have an immobilize, stun, or condition cleanse for team mates? If you weren’t a garbage Warrior then you could easily take advantage of these things.

It is a communication awareness and learn to play issue, that’s just it. Warrior doesn’t need to be over-buffed just because 95% of the Warrior population is mediocre.

I’ve said this before all you need to compliment a “good” Warrior is slow cleanse, and that’s it.

There is definitely a reason to pick a Warrior over a Ranger, Thief and Guard. However 95% of Warriors aren’t even worth playing with or worth building for.

Here again you seem to have this issue with wanting to insult other players and insinuate that we are all simple minded baddies.

1. The longbow combustive shot is just another one trick pony build that is at best on par with another classes aoe combo (ie d/d ele), except you have none of that mobility or survivability. The longbow build itself (unless you sacrifice adrenaline gain, and then whats the point) is absolutely horrid for anything other than spamming combustive shot, hence the reason why most warriors don’t use it. Sure you just hit everyone in that circle for a few k, good work, now what? Wait till your adren is full and do it again? So at best you hit “multiple people” for a few K every 8+ seconds and do mediocre damage in the meantime. This is assuming you don’t just get immediately mowed over being a mostly stationary target and all.

I would take that 8k axe eviscerate over combustive shot every time, and at least take down one important target than passively annoy the other team’s Mesmer by periodically destroying his illusions.

Do I even need to mention whirlwind, which can hit everyone within around 300 units around you for up to 4 hits, averaging 2k+ per hit, that can be repeated every 8 or so seconds?

Come on.

2. Tank warrior? This made me laugh. More mobile (in what sense)? More viable? No. Even a dps spec guardian can outlive the most tankiest warrior, and he can outdamage him easily. So you’re a bunker warrior with virtually no bunkering ability (endure pain? Ahauheueh) sitting on a point spamming CCs on people who then get up and proceed to murder you in under 10 seconds (15 if you use all 3 invul abilities). Good work, you just survived for around 1/4 to 1/2 of any decent guardians average survivability vs multiple people. You like to throw around mobility, but what. More mobile in the sense that you don’t have to sit on the point because the bunker guardian (the thing you are poorly emulating) is doing it for you?

3. I never compared the warrior to a ranger, but regardless, you seem to be confused about the purpose of the ranger in the current meta. The ranger isn’t there to try to outdamage a 100b warrior, the ranger is there to punish people in certain places by doing massive, consistent condition damage (something I assure you your warrior cant best).

Your point about relying on your teammates to do everything for you is a joke. That is the whole problem here, warriors need their teammates to do for them what almost every other class can do for themselves while remaining viable in the current meta.

(inb4 ur just simple-minded)

PS: Statistically if over 95% of people who play warriors are bad at it (ie unsuccessful in pvp), it most likely means there is something wrong with the class itself. Ahue statistics r fun. I hear over 95% of people aged 40 and over die 95% of the time from misinformation.

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Sprawl: Some people have lives, but just happen to be better at video games than others. Calling them “no-lifers” is an excuse to justify one’s own deficiencies. The fact that people who play casually have a hard time competing against those who practice is a good sign for the game’s skill ceiling.

However, the casual scene could definitely use some work, and I think the essence of the bullet points does outline part of the issue. There’s really no place for a casual to go for a really fulfilling teamwork-oriented game of GW2, and with the rank bar starting to set itself for PUGs, the problem will get worse and worse for new players.

It’s possible custom arenas will be developed that foster a 5v5 scenario that you can hot-join and enjoy with others who have a similar mentality, but if those are in high demand, they’ll be hard to get into. Alternatively, it’ll be difficult to keep some full, leaving games with those of a more competitive mind at uneven numbers.

Well not to insult them either, but those guys are all around rank 50 and up now, which is close to 1 million glory. I also agree with what sprawl said. The system needs considerable work.

Repeatedly going in with a 4 man or 3 man team to fight “paids-level” pvpers who are just dicking around/practicing kills the game extremely quickly for new pvpers.

If you want crafting material, buy the most expensive chests (1000 glory). If you want rank tokens, buy the cheapest chests.

Shukran.4851:

imho warriors are a joke in tpvp because everyone build them as glasscannon. they have a lot of cc and good utility that are not abused because the “meta”. i think the role of the warrior could be different , but honestly i can’t help with build/traits, because i don’t play warrior. but imho there is something else stronger than gs-axe/shield around. but maybe you need to build the team around warrior to make it possible.,

my 2 cents

I see what you’re saying, but building an entire team around a rather limited class doesnt seem logical. The warrior has very selfish utility and traits, and even his defensive traits are pretty flimsy. I mean there is obviously battle standard, but that has a ridiculously long cool-down, and if you want to go “support” that basically means you go hammer shout warrior or something similar.

The main flaw i see with the hammer though is that you cant do much with it. Sure you can knock people down, but then what. Obviously you can try to 100b them, but why bother; there are better ways to do it. The problem here is that virtually all warrior CC’s are shorter than a non-frenzie’d 100b, so you HAVE to have frenzy up to successfully land a 100b. This means that by the time your frenzy has recharged, so has any of your CC abilities, meaning you only need one, ie bulls charge. Sure you can periodically spam 100b with no CC and maybe you will do 4k before the person realises, or try to go for a 1/10 shot of doing a non-frienzied CC 100b, but you could be doing something a lot more useful on another class.

The hammer could be useful for some CC, as in disrupting stomps,revives,channeling spells, but again, you could be either doing it better on another class, or something more useful on another class. Rather than being on disrupt patrol, why not just be a wells necro or something.

This goes back to the main flaw of the warrior right now:

No matter what you do or how you do it, another class can do it better.

I am seeing a recurring flaw in this thread. People keep mixing player skill with class viability. This is not about player skill, this is about the class itself. Whether or not you can use your mad skillz to kill 2 thieves and a bunker guardian 3v1 as a knockdown warrior, or supposedly dominate on a non GC build is irrelevant.

This is where “Pics, videos, and specific build layout via gw2build.com, or GTFO” comes into play. Else this thread will turn into a massive kitten stroking contest of who has allegedly done what as a disadvantaged warrior.

As i said before, this is not a L2P issue. Its blatantly obvious something is wrong with the warrior. People neither want nor play a warrior in tpvp, and it needs to be fixed. Saying “you just havent discovered the build yet” is not an argument, unless you can supply one that is convincingly better than the current 100b.

Also, to clarify, some people seem to be under the impression that all we do is spam bull charge + 100b, this is obviously not the case. So please stop insulting everyone’s intelligence by automatically assuming you know the warrior class better, or that they just dont know how to play.

High level pvp is the same for every warrior.

Schwahrheit.4203:

daydream.2938:

It can contribute but yes, youd pretty much always rather bring something else.
Thief does the burst roamer job better, and the warriors other specs arent nearly as viable as other classes in those roles. (ie bunker warrior lol).

I would love to be proved wrong though, i think its sad

Saying Axe + GS is the only viable build is the most simple-minded statement ever. Because it just shows how pathetic the amount of work put and knowledge that you have within the Warrior class.

Let me restate what I just said, “top players” are saying Axe + GS is the only viable build. You know what the problem with this build is? A lot.

1.) You can’t bait out enemy stun breaks. Something that a good Warrior needs to capitalize on is calling out stun breaks for the team and himself. Pretty pathetic that NONE of the top Warriors in NA are even “trying” to self-sustain like this.
2.) Your chain stun burst combos are predictable. Simply because you can’t bait out stun breaks reliably as you only have shield bash and bulls charge.
3.) You can’t really defend yourself nor are the rewards for being good with Axe + GS even good. Mace has duel capability due stuns and Sword has mobility and kill set ups that help you and your team. Both with better efficiency in terms of team play. Not only can you sustain yourself, you actually make your team mates carry better. These are simple things that people refuse to believe or understand because people are afraid to try something new simply because these “top QP players” who NEVER worked on the Warrior class says so.
4.) Also the fact that your DPS isn’t even better. You don’t need Eviscerate to deal DPS with GS builds.

Condition damage isn’t a problem. I don’t mind trading hits with bleeds, conditions, confusion, or burning. Its really the slows, in which case all you really need is someone who can cleanse slows if you actually worked on getting good with a Warrior. If its still an issue then of course the only thing that should happen is mobile strikes getting buffed to cleanse slows.

If chain crowd control and combining mobility with disruption knowledge is too complex, then ANET simply needs to make that easy to understand. Because Warriors don’t need to be played as a DPS if you have knowledge on team synergy, something that people refuse to learn.

Or better yet, if ANET can’t do anything then instead, of listening to simple-minded BS statements from deemed top players who never really worked on the Warrior class, work with me and we’ll find something out. Its the only way to save this class from simple-minded statements and bad balancing decisions. Because guess what? Someone has to do it, and I’m not going to stand here in wait.

Pretty confident that Warrior is more than that simple-minded Axe + GS build so long as you’re not afraid to try something new and if you’re actually determined. Something that most people who play Warriors lack due to simple-mindedness and denial.

The thing is, you mostly just defeated your own argument. You pointed out some of the obvious flaws with the 100b build, but you are still unable to provide something better than the build you say is so simple-minded.

I also dont get why you keep trying to associate players and the 100b build with simple-mindedness. You talk as if we just sit around coming up with build ideas by face rolling the keyboard and that we are too narrow minded or stupid to find something that can surpass the 100b build in terms of curent meta viability.

Maybe you should try coming up with something.

Now when we say the 100b build, there are lots of 100b build variations, but really its just one build.

Try finding something that doesnt incorporate 100b but is just as or more viable in the current meta.

Archaon.6245:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

’nough said.

Well there is no arguing the rules of macros being illegal. I dont exactly agree with that though as stopping one group of people (lets call them law abiding citizens) from using macros, but not being able to stop the other group of players (hardcore, professional, omgcheatinghax0rs, etc) just gives one group an advantage over the other.

And the thing about having to re-learn how to do it by hand… come on this is guild wars. At any given time you are hitting maybe 5 keys in succession and you have a total of like 15 hotkeys. This doesnt even come close to games like ultima online where a good player can have anywhere from 50 to 130+ hotkeys (called macros). There is nothing to learn here, it is merely a matter of convenience and not wanting carpol tunnel when playing some of the more… aggressive classes.

Anyways i dont use macros because its illegal and against the law, so everything i say is merely for the sake of discussion.

It may be because we are confined to one game type that revolves around rather boring gameplay mechanics. Sit on a point, spam aoe, sit on a point some more. I’d like to see TDM and CTF, because months of conquest have become increasingly dull and repetitive.

daydream.2938:

lilz shorty.1879:

daydream.2938:

Quite a few? Only high Qp warrior main i know of is hman, are there others?

Yep his name is lil nnight

Its still an underepresented class. But, if your good enough, and your team is built for it, you can bring a warrior to competitive play.

Id correct that to: If your team is good enough to carry you, you can bring a warrior to competitive play.

I dont see any other class having that requirement.

This isnt a L2P issue, you can overcompensate as much as you want, and adapt as much as you want to a broken class, but that doesnt make the class any less broken. I know how to warrior, i spend most of my time creating and testing builds for warrior, and i have done a multitude of different and successful builds. This doesnt change the fact that most of those builds absolutely have to incorporate 100b as the main damage, or that to be viable i have to be glass cannon.

Again, the fact that there are multiple builds for a warrior doesnt change the inviability of those builds in high level pvp, or that 100b is the most useful build to date.

I am sick of running 100b but i have no other option if i want to be at least partially useful to my team.