Guild Wars 2

Neither Bunkers nor glass-cannon Thieves need fix.

They’re just 2 parts of a larger rock-paper-scissor circle.

This circle currently gives most professions a spot to counter a special type of enemy.
Thus making many classes (7/8)viable in their current state.
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-They only class which doesn’t really fit into this are Rangers, there is nothing they’re better in then any other class.
-Enges need some urgent bug-fixes though.
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E/:
Balancing wise I’ld like to keep the currently viable builds.
Instead of nerfing those I’ld like to see buffs aimed at currently less viable build-paths and traitlines.

Ranger spirits for example are just completely unusable in their current state.

…Or maybe there is a reason why Necros do exit…

Thieves are perfectly equipped for a roamer.
Great mobility strong 1v1 potential.
In a tourney they’re definitely a viable choice.

In random-matches they’re simply pub stompers.
Most players over there are just incredibly bad.
No condition remove against DB and no block-set against backstabbers..
No wonder so many people cry about thieves.

The pure amount of brainless glass cannons in random matches just makes me facepalm.

High mobility and strong control

Thieves can:
-jump back 3 times in a row
-cripple is inbound to this dodge

/Pistols
-60% chance to apply cripple @crit

“Lighting Reflexes” vs “Roll for initiative”
Elan vs
1 &1/2 extra (dodges+cripples) (Bow)

Additionally:
-Cripples enemies upon each (normal) dodge.
-Thieves regain endure after each dodge
-Attacking a target with less than 50% life causes 4 seconds of immobilize

Possible Thief-utility slots:
-4* Chill (1s/each)
-3* Root (2s/each)
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Trapp discussion:

Thief trap:
1.) 3s knockdown +5s cripple
2.) 3s root

Ranger trap:
1.) 6s cripple
2.)3s chill
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I don’t want to start a fight, but in my eyes Thieves are far superior at movement &movement control.

We’re on the same side I guess, we all do love Rangers.
Even though I love my Ranger I’m not getting blinded by this love.
I am open eyed to the problem (s)he has which currently defined best by being outclassed in basically any aspect.
-Movement
-Damage
-Crowd control

The only section were Rangers currently shine is AoE-Condition spamm (If you’re ok with sacrificing 3 utility slots for it).
Sadly you can also take a Necro for that.
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E/:

[…]
one thing my ranger is awesome for though in WvWvW is that it runs away faster and better than most classes… except mesmers and thiefs.

Don’t forget Warriors (perma swiftness signet+horn) and Eles (air-traitline).

@ Braxxus:
I have more than 300h played on my Ranger, he used to be my main before I swapped to Warrior.

You need 30 Points in Precision to make your Trapps viable (throwable +double cond. duration).

You need at least 1 defensive skill (lightning Reflexes).
Since Rangers have only 1 cond. remove the next slot should be Renewal (Though I sometimes play without this, since it depends on your pet hence it sucks).
Quickening Zephyr (4s asp. buff) is used by most Rangers in this slot)

Which leaves 1 spot for a trap.
2 if you sacrifice QZ(extra attackspeed) or sacrifice your cond. remove.

So, you’re investing 30 trait-points into Precision instead of condition duration, condition damage or tankiness.
In order to use a single trap – or 2 if you sacrifice your utility for it-.

This simply ain’t worth it.
—————————————
Note: I’m talking about sPvP.
In WvW you can run triple-traps and throw them at castle walls for a good AoE.
It works quite well.
But as far as I know we’re talking about sPvP.

BTT:
Warrior don’t have many cover conditions, therefor their bleeding damage is incredibly high with just a few point in cond.dmg.

It’s a trade-off.
But: there is no other class which can be so tanky, supportive and dish out so much damage at the same time.

Note: Warrior are not made for spamming AoE conditions, that’s the Nec’s job.
Instead their single target cond. dmg. is more than just great.

Well, TL1 (traitline) also has piercing arrow in it.
Piercing arrow and the longer condition duration do make sense together since it allows spreading your conditions much better.

I completely agree with TL2 though.
Being forced to skill precision in order to use traps simply sucks.
Sure, it makes people use sigil of earth – but if I want a tanky condition build it would have been much more useful to actually have those skills at your condition-damage-TL instead of the precision-TL.

But well, it’s just the top of the iceberg when it comes to ranger balance.
There are much bigger problems to be faced.

After 325 hours on my Ranger I abandoned him after the recent Shortbow nerf.
I rerolled a Thief and really fell in love with his TLs, he has so many awesome Skills it’s the complete opposite of the Ranger where most skills barely justify putting points into a TL you don’t directly want to push your stats with.

Matthew.2873:

May i just intervene in all of this ‘’Numbers don’t add up’’ philosophy, and point out that we have pets, the pets make up the numbers and if used correctly make the skills of similar professions less of the numbers we have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5DiFJAtWQ&feature=plcp

I really love this video.
Since it proves everybody wrong who dares to call pets a reliable damage source.

(Yet it’s not including the fact that in WvW and Dungeons pets are lie lying on the floor from dust to dawn due to AoE damage without a doding mechnism wasn’t Anets best idea.)

Zyrusticae.7245:

Cogbyrn.7283:

a reliable way to damage high toughness builds in while using power

This is paradoxical. High toughness is specifically designed to counter power, and conditions are designed to counter toughness.

If you create a situation where Warriors can counter toughness stacking with just power, what happens in that situation where you sub out someone toughness stacking and sub in someone with a more balanced build or naturally low toughness?

Right. So we now have a situation where our condition damage is utter crap relative to many other classes and so we have no real counter to the problem of high-toughness builds.

Warrior condition damage is utterly crap?
With 740 Condition damage a rifle applies nearly 800 flat bleeding.
A swordthrow adds 6k bleeding with the same amount.
A Swordhit applies 1,2k bleeding.

A Ranger with 1200 condition damage applies less than 310 condition damage /hit.

Just wow, get your facts straight, bro…

Warrior has a limited amount of conditions but his bleeding damage is hilariously high.

Edit/:
If you use signet and FGJ swordthrow damage will even hit for 8,2k
Edit:
The numbers in my mind were wrong, the Warrior bleeding damage is even higher! Adjusted it.

@Braxxus
Power has nothing to do with spamming 1 spell.
Just play a Ranger.
A Swordthrow (Warrior) with 770 Con Damage adds a 5800 Bleeding, 6800 if you use Signet and FGJ.
With the same amount of con. damage your rifle adds nearly 800 con. damage.
A Ranger with 1200 Con damage applies less than 310 Bleeding damage /hit (Other skills are ignoreable since spamming1 has the highest DPS).
*

Now do the maths.

Warrior have a great scaling, have strong shouts and can be incredibly tanky at the same time.

You really should play other classes to have a real comparison how powerful Warriors really are.
Also you either haven’t seen a good thief yet, or simply haven’t taken your time to try out the class.
Just because all baddies keep spamming 2 doesn’t mean that its the best way to play this class.

*Sidenote: You can use an attackspeed buff, while Rangers currently have their Shortbow bugged and their max attackspeed capped at an extremely low rate.

Nothing personal, but you seem to be extremely superficial.
No wonder you can’t bring your Warrior to his fullest potential.

Warriors ain’t underpowered.
Create a Ranger or Enge, try them and never ever complain about Warriors again.

Warrior are a little bit tricky, traits have “hidden” combos which can make a cripple a root and a fury buff at the same time.
Take your time and think about how you’re building.

Learn to swap your armor/weapon and masteries in WvW.
Killing a Dolyak or clearing an outpost can be done much faster that way!

In sPvP learn to swap your weapon kits.
Don’t ever build glass cannon.
A shield can work wonders against a glass cannon facing you.

For my part I’m more than satisfied with the current state of my Warrior.
Played a few hours with a Guild-Mate today. Warrior are a freaking awesome allround class.
(Got a 285 points @0 deaths just an hour ago, kitten that was an awesome feeling! Though we were continuously fighting 2v3 or 2v4)

I have no idea what your build is to loose 1v1s.
But I for my part win against most enemies who ain’t Guardians.

“We know Rangers currently are in a bad competitive state . We’re working on it.”

That’s all we want to hear.
Rangers really start to rage, not only because of stealth nerfs and their lack of power – but because they’re getting completely ignored.

I wrote 5 lines about my Warrior thats anything but 90%.
In order to see if a profession is in a good spot in a PvP based game you have to compare classes.
There is no other way.

I did not only mention bugs but also listed why several weapons are in a bad state, which is balancing not bug-fixing.

Ranger damage is split 70~80% Ranger 30~20% pet.
In Crucible and Arah which are full of 10k+ AoEs there is no pet on your side.
Also Rangers are the only class who can’t do a single thing against “Mr. A”’s crystals.

Yes, you can play Rangers in PvE, but you drag your team down.

docMed.7692:

CRrabbit.1284:

You are wrong.
It’s true that there are a few ppl QQing about ranger being underpower (as all other classes).
However, most ppl get angry becoz Anet didn’t tell the truth and then give irresponsible explanation for just trying to play the typical american game —- COVER IT UP.

docMed.7692:

I’m not going to sit here and argue profession vs profession (although there are numerous holes in your argument & I find killing warriors quite easy with my build).

IRONY OW IRONY!

You know, believe it or not, I am actually trying to foster a real conversation and encourage player development here. “You are wrong” doesn’t really help explain anything.

But instead of discussing you tell ignore everything that is said but tell us to “go away”.
Sorry, but this topic is a joke.
You say you want a discussion but don’t accept people who agree with you.

You’re stating “Yey, rangers are great – it’s all up to the players”.
I respond “No, they’re not. Even if you change your gear during a dungeon and adept to your enemies maths proves you’re weaker than somebody who doesn’t have to chance his gear at all.”

If you don’t want this tread to be a complete joke learn to accept other players opinions and respond to the “message of their message” instead of attacking the player.

E/:
I also love how you tell other persons they have “holes in their argumentation” while you completely refuse to name those or respond on topic.

I’m out of here, there are some people you just can’t discuss with.

If you want to prove me wrong take your time and respond to my initial postwith more than just “You have holes in your argumentation” and "

Exaggerated Statement?
Please scroll up and enter the bug forum.
Check the nature and beast-traitline sections.

Pets don’t die instantly?
Please enter Arah explo. and fight Giganticus Lupicus.
Or enter Crucible explo. and try out the fights against “Mr. A” (you face him 3 times/run), or check out the room with infinite Golem bomb respawns.

Each of those bosses spamms AoE at a 5 second cooldown.
Well, actually several AoEs at once.
Each AoE hits for 9,8 to 12k damage.
Pets can’t use dodge and take full damage, the AoE area is so big that even if pets would actually listen to your F3 they wouldn’t get out in time anyways.

Hell, even at low level dungeons your pet constantly bites the dust.
Twilight Arbor flowers do the job quite well.

And if pets ain’t dead they are even to stupid to hit a moving target!.
I am keeping new Rangers from playing this profession?
Well, maybe I don’t want them to waste their time, I’m doing them a favor.

If you’re a new Ranger reading this, check out this video to get an impression how usefull pets are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5DiFJAtWQ&feature=plcp

I got 3 complete exotics sets for my Ranger.
I swap between those 3 several times on each map.
So I do with my trait-line-skills and weapons.

In the end my Warrior can do everything my Ranger can, but better.
(Dual Sword, Toughness/healing Power/Condition Damage and Healing shouts)

Having 750 condition damage my Swordthrow (4) deals 5,840-bleeding damage (900 range)- with FGJ and Signet even 6,8k!
That’s 22,29 Shortbow auto attacks for my Ranger with 1150 condition damage.
I got more armor than my Ranger.
I got higher damage (Rifle > Shortbow) with 400 less points in condition damage.
Meanwhile I buff my mates on a much lower cooldown than a Ranger-horn has.
I remove conditions from my group and myself.
And I heal everybody for 2k /Shout.

The current state of the Ranger is not problematic because people don’t know how to play him.
Rangers are problematic because their numbers are just insanely bad.

-Heal scaling

-Spirit life

-Condition weapon base damage AND scaling

-Longbow
— flight time
—Range penalty
—Attackspeed

Shortbow
-QZ bug
-recent attackspeed nerf

Sword
-Unresponsive to dodges
-Long activation time on 2

Greatsword
-Just plain bad damage compared to Warriors
-Condition and physical damage mix on a character who has to use his runes to make up for his armor

Last but not least:
A pet which dies instantly within WvW or exp.mode dungeon AoEs.
Which can’t even hit a running enemy.

I could continue this list much further.
But everything has been said a hundred times before and tbh. I’m getting sick of writing in this forum since the Devs don’t even care enough to respond.
“We know the Ranger-class is broken. We’re working on a fix.” is all I’m hoping for.*
Hell, I should be leveling my Thief this very second.

To sum this up:
Regardless how good you play your Ranger.
Even if you constantly swap gear/masteries within a single dungeon and adept to each type of enemy you face:
The pure numbers on the whole Ranger class are broken.
On top of 2 traitlines which are completely unusable due to bugs.

Your motivational speech is no help.
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Even lance Armstrong on doping can’t win a bicyle race on a Puky-bike.
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“Dead Again” #1 petname.
“Biting Dust” #2 petname.
“Hit the Floor”#3 petname.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Yea…so then there wasnt anything important going on. shrug Whatever, Maybe I can help people pass some time, Im using a 30/25/0/0/15 build atm with double raven for pvp, longbow ( preference, hate shortbow ) and sword/horn, and with signet of the wild and RaO I become competetive for 20 seconds. Sadly ranger even with the cds is only on par with other classes who dont use their cds, but once they are down Im back to being sub par.

Pet nearly 1 shot a thief tho, so that was a highlight of my day.

Raven?
Always reminds me of this :>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5DiFJAtWQ&feature=plcp

*Imagine a Ranger as 80% damge to 20% pet damage split.
-Pets are useless in PvP (example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5DiFJAtWQ&feature=plcp).
-In Dungeons (80 exp.) or WvW pets are doen 80~90% of the time due to the lack of a dodging mechanism
—-
*Rangers have very unreliable condition-remove.

*Rangers have bad utility spells compared to other classes
—-
*Greatsword can’t compete with Warriors

*Short-Sword attacks disable dodgeing

*Shortbow is inferior to Theif Shortbow + it’s bugged and swiftness doesn’t work anymore

*Longbow is inferior to Warrior Longbow, it looses damage and arrows have such a low flight-speed that you can avoid them by stepping left and right

*Axe is very situational, great when facing 2 hugging enemies: else it’s inferior to penetrating arrows /has a low single target DPS
—-
*Spirits die instantly – even within weak AoE(whereas Warriors flags can’t be damaged)
—-
*Nature magic trait is nearly completely bugged

*Beastmastery trait suffers from a large amount of buggs

docMed.7692:

Quite the contrary – pets are extremely useful in pvp, I recommend trying out a couple wolves or a spider and utilizing their abilities accordingly (e.g. fears/snares).

Because decent players tend to be easily hit by skills with big animations and 2 seconds of standing-still casting-time.

Greetings from the sarcasm front.

Dice Dragon.4326:

This to me screams bad game design. Not a flaw with the pet. this means ANY class that is reliant on pets aka turret engis, MMs etc will get kitten by this as well, meaning its not JUST a ranger thing, but rather the game giving you many pet options, in classes, and not being balanced around it.

Well, each class but the Ranger can respec for 3,5silver and is free to play without pets.
Whereas Ranger are forced to play with stone-smart AI on their side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5DiFJAtWQ&feature=plcp

Some might say Mesmer suffer from the same problem since their F-abilities also rely on minions.
Mesmer however draw profit from blowing up their “pets”.
They can use them for flat damage, conditions or – a self protection skill which is worth up to three dodges in a row.

Rangers however only profit from a living pet, the longer their pet lives there more damage it can dish out.
Sadly pet neither can dodge, nor take reduced from AoE and in the end their reaction time is so freaking slow that it is just plain impossible to command them into safety battling a boss like “Mr A” or Lupicus.

In the end the maximum effectiveness of a Ranger is capped by an AI feeling lucky rather than by player skill.
It’s like 80% is up to you; but the rest is a number between 0- and 20% which is randomly generated.

Since I already have an additional lvl 80 Warrior I started a Thief.

This is the only way for me to always have a decent ranged hero to play.
Since we all have seen what Anet has done to the Rangers and I’m used to rock-paper-scissors-vicious-nerfing-circles I think this is the best thing for me to do as a dedicated ranged dps player.

You have done dungeons with a watchfull eye.. So…
Have you done Crucible or Arah yet?
Since most other dungeons are just plain easy (So is Crucible with a little practice).
Those two mentioned above require well timed dodges to survive the 12k damage AoEs.
Too bad pet can’t use use dodge.

Crucible path 3 “Mr. A” 3rd fight.
Try it once and count the seconds till your pet bites the dust.

I small reminder how great pet damage is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5DiFJAtWQ&feature=plcp

(For some weird reason clicking doesn’t work, copying still does the job)

900 range = out of combat?

Dear Sir,

now I am sure you haven’t played Crucible yet.
Even using a Longbow you’ll get AoE beneath your feet.
The tripple-front-circles alone have a range of more than 1400 (using a skilled Longbow at max range, those stop right before your feet).
And thats just the fight against “Mr.” A. the mini-golem rooms ain’t even save at max. longbow-range.
I’m not even talking about Lupicus yet…

Please don’t fool us.
It’s no shame if you haven’t finished it yet.
But please don’t lie.
I’ld suggest you to finish Crucible and Arah before you continue posting.
One day you will, that’s exactly when you’ll regret posting your theorycrafting.

Dear sir,

please before you talk about PvE play Crucible and Arah.
You’ll notice there is no such thing as a pet.

Random AoE by bosses and normal mobs (Mini-Golems, endless respawn) hit for 9 up to 12k, well bosses hit for even more: stacking several of those all over the floor.

Your Pet can’t use Dodge, which is the only way to survive this.
It ’ll get killed from full life in 3~8 seconds.

The only type of Pet who can survive a little longer are birds which randomly dodge upon attacking, all you can do is prey.

Same problem in WvW.

Redrumickey.9672:

It’s all good! Thief and warrior are next on the nerfing block .

Well, neither of them deserves a nerf.
Thieves, Guardians, Warriors , Mesmer and Elementalists have a great balancing towards each other.
It’s a little bit like rock paper scissors with just the elemtalist breaking the circle (mainly since he doesn’t counter anybody but instead is an awesome support for each group).

The point is:
Engineers are unreliable due to their random effect tonics which make them barely usable in PvP.
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And Ranger, well…
They simply suck.
Thieves and Warriors are stronger ranged fighters as well as stronger meeles, so are Guardians.
Support Rangers are just plain bad due to spirits dieing in basically and AoE regardless how weak it is.
On top of all the maximum power of a Ranger is not limited by individual skull, but by a randomly stupid Pet Ki.
Well, at least as long as the pet is alive – since it can’t dodge and dies instantly to dungeon bosses (Arah /Crucible)

It’s ‘cause the Ranger DPS is so incredibly high that the balancing-team couldn’t justify further damage from this unstoppable sentinel-class.
It’s an important mechanism created to prevent Rangers from soloing dragons.

Ow,
i shall send you greetings from the sarcasm front; sadly most Rangers are too drunk to for further discussion.
They all started drinking after the recent “animation-fix”.
They begged me to apologize for not showing up in person.

Well most players complain about their classes.
Each class has their own weak spot.
People who are playing that class notice and are unhappy about it.
Many forget to also see the power that this exact class offers.

After getting a Guardian, Warrior and Ranger to level 80 I dare to say that I have a good overview of all those classes.
Rangers used to be the most fun profession for me.
I got a 100% map, owned more than 5200 dungeon tokens (including Arah and Eternity) and 3 complete exotic gears.
I tend to switch my gear and masteries in a single dungeon for several time, adopting to the enemies I face.

To cut a long story short.
With twice the effort of playing another class can’t even reach half of the “power” playing my ranger.

Example:
A Warrior with 750 condition damage can throw his off-hand-sword for 5800 damage which equals more than 18 auto attacks of my 1150 condition damage Ranger.
While having nearly twice the armor and having supportive shouts which heal my team for about 2k~ each.

It’s not Warriors or Guardians being overpowered, neither are Elementalists or Thieves: Those classes (including Mesmer in upper-tier) having a great balance compared to each other.
It’s just the Ranger being incredibly far off after the exaggerated end-beta nerfs and basically a dead class after the recent “animation-fix” which killed the last source of power the Ranger had.
(Low CD attackspeed buff @pet change)

To make it short:
Sacrifice your utility in order to still deal less damage than any other class with utility spells.

What is my opinion based on?:
My Ranger has 100% map discovering.
He played dungeons for about ~5200 tokens (including Arah and Eternity).
Plus: quite a while spent playing WvW.
I have 3 complete exotic sets for him and switch them several times in the same instance adjusting my playstyle, masteries and gear to my enemies.

=> I will mainly base my opinion on “endgame-PvE” and WvW.
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I think the ranger is bad because he neither excels in a certain role, nor is a decent hybrid.

Also he his maximum (damage) potential is limited by KI which doesn’t even have a dodge skill in its kit.
—————————————————————————————————
1)
-Ranger are bad supporters because ghosts die easily within random AoEs (WvW, PvE-Dungeon-problem)
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2.)
-Ranger are bad damage dealers because their damage is split between their pet and the actual character.
Regardless how good you play your ranger, you will always be limited in your maximum power by a KI-guided bot. (Which can’t even hit a running target with 30% extra movementspeed AND swiftness)
Also: Pets die easily within AoE, see WvW or Arah/Eternety for further details.
—————————————————————————————————
3.)
-Rangers lack a reliable condition remove
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4.)
All ranger weapons are highly situational.
You’ld need at least 3 weapon slots to be decently equipped at the current state of ranger weapons.

-Longbow: Low dps and an insane damage loss when your enemy has some kind of gapcloser

-Axe: Only decent if fight at least 2 enemies hugging each other

-Shortbow: since the recent “animation-fix” it can’t compete anymore with rifle Warriors, pistol Theivesoder, or rifle Engeneers.

-Greatsword: The mix between condition- and normal damage really screw up your equipment/mastery-tree. Yet you won’t ever reach the damage a Warrior can dish out with the same weapon.
Sidenote: You have much less base armor aswell

-1H-Sword: Clumsy “1”-chain which can’t be interrupted by a dodge roll, making it basically suicide in dungeons.
“2” has a quite long delay before it actually activates.
—————————————————————————————————
5.)
-Certain traits are put into traitlines which are hindering for the build they belong into.
Example: Trapps requite precision-traits, while bow mastery grants longer condition and wilderness survival grants higher condition damage.

Edit:
Sidenote:
A dual sword Warrior with ~750 condition damage can pull of a ranged bleeding for ~5800 damage while a shortbow- Ranger with ~1200 condition damage only hits for ~310 with a single spell.
Thus a “close-combat” Warrior can cause the bleeding from ~18,7 Ranger Shortbow attacks at the range of an axe-using Ranger. *

Somebody definitely should look at those numbers!

*(Might from “FGJ!” and Signet NOT included, which make it 6,8k)