Guild Wars 2

how do you know he crafted them? I got 4/6 armors and 3 weapons through chests. All my trinkets were from laurels. Maybe he has lots of gold and crafting them wasn’t a big deal. Regardless, he’s asking for an off meta build and happens to have ascended gear available to him.

He doesn’t have to justify his gear. When I want to try something new, I’ll stat swap and mess around. It’s still ascended gear but just because they’re ascended doesn’t mean I care what’s currently meta.

I agree. Invoking Glint sounds cringey. I hate it. Shiro sounds awesome.

Not only that but the “on heal” effects happen after the heal so you would have to withdraw onto your opponent for them to be in the affected radius. I’ve played the d/p plex build in moderation and it fun for a while but very expensive. I feel your pain. This patch has been a mess for thieves.

They should have made preparedness baseline and leave venomous aura alone. The original venomshare support build is weaker and made basi venom more desirable with the daggerstorm(haste) nerf. I had a zerg softener build. Black powder > Shadowstep > Daggerstorm + Haste, shadowstep out. Now that build is useless.

While I didn’t like playing against plex thieves, it was different and unique.

Those duelers constantly flip needle(causing RI) when they’re bored. I’ve seen tags that know they’re dueling yet actively plow them over(rightfully so). When asked why, tag says they give zerg intel. If they want to duel, they should pick a better spot.

Azukas.1426:

p.s. S/P and S/D are not good frontline weapons btw. S/P roots you in place which creates a problem with staying on your driver.

S/P is excellent for your SOM build. Sure it roots you in place but it gives you invul evade frames negating a huge chunk of damage(as a frontliner). It also hit 8x after the stun with the added ability to cleave 3 targets. So that’s a maximum of 3*8= 24 SOM procs.

Deathrubber.3861:

dont forget about lotus training! what? op? nooooooo (;

I thought about that and I don’t think it would be op. That deathblossom/perma-evade build relies on Acr/Trk/DD. Acro to give perma vigor and Trk for the high initiative pool. By taking DA over Trk, sure you have lots of poison application but would it outweigh the initiative pool and caltrops on dodge? It will bump DA for sure but Trk is IMO the best core traitline on thief.

This isn’t anything game-breaking but how about we let Dagger Training affect all the utilities that uses dagger? Impairing Daggers, Distracting Daggers, and Dagger Storm all say they throw daggers but the trait only affects the attacks done by the dagger weaponsets. This wouldn’t technically be considered a buff since the tooltip says

Dagger Training: “Dagger attacks have a chance to poison enemies.”

Impairing Daggers: “Fling multiple daggers at a single enemy, inflicting conditions.”

Distracting Daggers: “Equip daggers that can be thrown to interrupt enemies and increase the cooldown of abilities interrupted.”

Dagger Storm: “Spin around, reflecting projectiles and throwing daggers that cripple and bleed nearby foes. You can move while spinning.”

Thoughts?

I’ve watched your videos and I enjoy them all. I know you don’t like staff but the weapon set is very strong. I use to feel the same way until I decided to put some effort into using it. Dust Strike has surprisingly decent range when chasing and Debilitating arc can be used as a somewhat spamable evade to counter other stealth classes/trapper runes.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Set.7461:

SOM works on condi pulses, not the damage. Caltrops, poison field from shortbow. It doesn’t proc from the actual condi ticks.

^

It hasn’t for the 3 years we’ve played the game. Application? sure, but not ticks, which is specifically what you mentioned.

Warhawk.7095:

Did they seriously nuke this skill to no longer include condition ticks?

Yes, application. I’m using the term “pulses” because that’s what the tooltip uses on SB #4. When I said “ticks”, I’m referring to the damage that is popping off your target.

SOM works on condi pulses, not the damage. Caltrops, poison field from shortbow. It doesn’t proc from the actual condi ticks.

There have been some decent suggestions already so I’ll suggest a small change that might help. Change Leeching Venoms to proc more than once per attack. The only way to get the full effect of it now is to stagger your venom application which is not ideal. Having a way to front load the damage of life leech gives up a reason to use venoms instead of saving it for a bigger fight.

Ice Drake and Devourer is outclassed by Spider and Skale. They’re no reason to use them even on a full venom build simply because they’re so weak. Stacking life leech may make them more desirable since they will do damage and add some defensive heals. I would like to see bleed/confusion added to this but I don’t think that’s going to happen.

Carrot.5670:

Sir Vincent. Just let it go.

You are the one that is twisting his words and taking them out of context. Whats even worse is that you keep bringing this up over and over again even when hes trying to put an end to it. You really are acting like a bully at this point.

I read through the whole conversation, and never noticed him really contradicting himself. All i noticed was that you really didnt answer his question after he pointed out what flaws your advice had.

He actually never was asking how to not die to this build. He was asking for a reliable way to kill it. Do you honestly think that the build is balanced if the only way to reliably kill it is with a consumable that costs money and supplies?

No kidding man. I usually like Sir Vincent’s posts but this thread isn’t his best side. No. If no one wins, that’s not a “win”. it’s a draw. Bring up fencing to the discussion? Geez. Give it up.

I’ve ran into these thieves where I had to refuge and simple walk away. Tried my best to bait a reveal to no avail so the best I could hope for was a draw and I took it. I’m also curious to a counter to this build. It’d be nice if we leave our egos out the door so we can have a discussion instead of nit-picking every word.

Build diversity is a big deal. Seeing the same d/p thieves out of the few that stream is stale and boring. Also personality is big. I have no intentions in supporting a salty BM player(pretty much everyone who steams).

Video was nothing impressive. First fight, you guildie had the advantage from the start with double improv F2 stealth, got the opener, then it snowballed. Second fight, he was 98 hp from down before withdraw so very lucky there. Maybe you should posts your builds on metabattle. As for the premise, people don’t need to be “good” to posts good builds. Some people are better teacher/coaches than players.

Zynt.5769:

Sigh She hasn’t resorted to PMing angry messages when someone beats her has she? We’ve told her that Mesmer isn’t her strong point (we all saw her gameplay footage she posted) and she should switch to a more sustainable class, since Mesmer (also Thief) requires you to be quite dexterous, but she refuses to listen to any advice.

I was told that I’m something along the lines of a “slimebag” and to “play a class with skills”. That’s funny because from what I’ve heard, Mesmer and Thief are very similar in terms of skill. I got my 8 winstreak, broke Sapphire, and called it a night. Browsed the forums and was surprised I affected her to a point where it warranted a forum post.

Turk.5460:

Just…stop. Staff Thieves have at maximum 2 stuns, and if they actually have 2, then you must be in Amber tier.

Raises hand
It was actually Emerald going to Sapphire.

To OP, I had 25 stacks of Bloodlust, Basilisk up, and you were being predictable. Porting away, no stealth, blowing dodges back to back, granny shifting not double clutching like you should. No need to PM me with salt.

Pain Response doesn’t remove confusion but I agree, it’s an excellent trait. I’ve tried playing with Guarded Initiation to counter Mesmers and [annoying]Perplexity thieves and found the trait very lackluster. You can slot sigil of generosity to transfer full confusion stacks back to your opponent which is very useful. Be wary though, I’ve played around with it only briefly and have read some buggy things about them. Might experiment some more now that I think about it.

Excellent video. Good gameplay and decision making. I saw s/d and was sad that part was so short.

@fluidmonolith,
If you have a port free(Steal or Infiltrators Signet), you can port> Hook Strike > Vault. or if you’re low on ini, you can port > weakening charge. Best case, you’ll crit them all for (2k-2.5k * 3) hits plus sigil procs. Other than that I’d say be patient and use hold off using vault until the last second of stealth, that way your opponent will burn some dodges.

Staff is more of a brawler’s style weapon and relies on utilities for stealth. You have plenty of on-demand dodges. 3 dodges from DD and a near instant evade from Debilitating Arc that only cost 4 ini. You can make stealth work but I’ve found myself dropping it if I play staff, counting my opponents’ dodges, and vaulting when they run out.

The later. Vault doesn’t give the red circle. You’re already in stealth. Why not hook strike > Vault? That should pretty much guarantee a landed vault.

I’ve used them all pretty extensively. One thing I want to comment on is the “wasted heal” from defender. It appears to be a flat 4k ish heal that’s not affected by poison. If you add that 4k on top of your heal skill, there’s pretty much no way you can waste the heal. For example, Withdraw heals for ~4k. Add 4k on top of it and treat Withdraw as an 8k heal the first time you use it. So say you have 18k hp. Heal at 10k instead of 14k.

IMO, Defender runes are better for duels and smaller group fights than Scrapper runes. If you use it as I mentioned, you get a flat 4k extra hp, a quick regen, and a free block, all from 1 skill(heal). It helps with bandits defense for more regen but is definitely not required to slot. I’ve tried maximizing dmg reduction and while it’s noticeable, it doesn’t turn a fight around like Defender’s rune. Getting a clutch block from aegis is too good.

Having said that, I’ve switch all but my chest-piece and weapons to Valk and picked Exuberance over them all. Dmg reduction and blocks are nice, but having 20k hp with ~2.5k power is something I don’t want to give up. If I had full Marauder, I’d go with Defender.

Edit: another reason I prefer Defender’s Rune over Scrapper is AFAIK, Scrapper Runes do not affect conditions. So while it’s good for direct dmg, the extra 4k heal from Defenders will help in any occasion.

Draeyon.4392:

@set
Ye, strength runes are the long term goal (if I stay interested in this idea), but dropping 30-40g on a build I may only play for a week isnt something I would do.

and that acro idea is something I will definitely try out.
Had SA for emergency stealth (steal) and stealth regen.
What acro traits would you recommend? Was thinking 3-1-1 or 2-1-1

@anvil
In WvW, I dont think I could drop bow. I have tried that before and its just not good.
Thanks for the input though.

For acro, I personally go with 1-3-2 on melee builds but in your case, 3-3-3 would be good. The second tier (Hard to catch) is too good. It’s a free stun-break and it refill all your endurance. In WvW, it’s a guarantee proc in every engagement. One thing I would mention is your crit chance is pretty low for P/P. I would suggest slotting signet of agility to replace SR. The active and passive are really good. Bumps up your crit and 2 free dodges. I use to love SR but it becomes a liability. Thieves will cluster bomb, vault spam it, revs will reveal, Necros will mark it, etc. Reveals are strong and having SR in WvW is like saying, “Hey, I’m over here.”

I would go with strength runes for the 5% extra dmg. You specced SA but only have 1 source of stealth, Shadow Refuge. I would drop SA for Acro and grab bound. Now you have a stealth leap finisher.

good tips. I agree with Sir Mad about the combo fields/finishers. That’s a game tip, not specifically a thief tip. Not taking anything away from op. I also make YT videos(not gw2 related) and it’s not easy to produce.

One tip I would like to see added that I’m not sure many people know is what I call the “Ghetto Vault”. It goes like this.

Infiltrator’s Arrow > wait for arrow to fire > Bound >weapon swap. Yes you spend 6 ini instead of 5 and a dodge but it’s 900 range instead of 600. And yes, it’s not as strong. Good for opening duels when you don’t want to steal right away.

You’re right, they are slow. The most reliable way of landing them in in stealth but even then, it’s hard once you get to a certain level. You can see the daggers coming even from a stealth thief. I’ve dodged many of them. My best advice is to use them as close as you can. Yes I know, it defeats the purpose. shrug They’re so slow, might as well be paper airplanes.

you’re running glass cannon. You’re going to die fast no matter what. Runes aren’t going to help you.

I’ve been running a very similar build but with Rune of the Warrior(20% recharge on weapon swap). I make sure to swap every chance I get. 3 initiative every 8 seconds made a pretty big difference considering Infiltrator’s Signet is 1 every 10 seconds.

My rotation: Unload, Swap, UL, steal(Klepto), UL, UL, swap, etc.

I tested this on golems in the mist. It still works.

Staff is pretty versatile once you get experience with it. It may seem like a 1 trick pony but it can put a lot of pressure. The only thing it’s lacking is a smoke field that’s very powerful in x/p. If you can stand the long CD of blinding powder(I can’t), stealth 1 and you can get a free vault. Other tricks is linking weakening charge with ports. Wait a half second after casting weakening charge, then steal/infiltrator’s signet and you will root in place landing all 3 hits. That’s an easy 6-7.5k dmg if all are crits and they should be since your crit should be high enough. Use debilitating arc when you’re on the defensive and run out of endurance(it happens). Very few instances when you can vault spam. Vault spamming in refuge is one of them. Another is after you steal from a ranger and using healing seed on top of them. There’s pros and cons of all weapons. Right now, I think staff is very strong.

The thief you faced played a very specific build. There is a counter to all builds and this is no different. Pistol Whip is very expensive. It costs him 6 initiative to spend and he is rooted while doing the animation. He can port while casting with steal or infiltrator signet. He can also cancel the animation if he misses but the initiative doesn’t get refunded. With initiative regen, he can do 3 PW in a row(maybe 4 with Upper Hand procs). To counter this, you must kite him, run, whatever to make him miss and burn his initiative. You probably made this mistake in trying to go toe to toe with him. It’s common to do so in shroud. PW also has a built in evade frames(not entire duration) and while you’re trying to hit him, his evades are procing regen/health from Upper Hand/Invigorating Precision/Signet of Malice.

The first portion of PW has a very clear and slow tell that you can easily dodge or kite. The stun itself is very short (1/2 sec so no need to waste stunbreak even if you eat a few swings) but it will proc Pulmonary Impact if you’re casting. What makes PW so deceiving is that it’s 8 attacks when it shows 4. 8 attacks of Invigorating Precision/SOM, plus the evade if you’re attacking him, and he’ll always be topped off in health. Don’t sit in the whipping cone.

It probably seemed like he was spamming PW, but only noobs do that. It’s the equivalent of vault spamming. Playing S/P trains to you manage your initiative and he probably did 2 in a row at most, throwing in auto-attacks, dodges, etc in between. Since you don’t have any ports(except Wurm), he is able to literally run up to you and cast PW at his discretion. If Pulmonary is procing, then he doesn’t have Escapist Absolution(condi clense on dodge). Stay in staff and bomb marks. He has Infiltrator’s Return but it costs 5 initiative(total) to cure 1 condi so I’m guessing he’s using utility skills to clense.

It’s a fun but the root and high cost of pw made me shelve it as a “once in a while” build. My tip is, when you seen the sword swinging, don’t attack. Try to minimize seeing “evaded” by learning the tells.

I think “Revealed Training” should be moved to the “Minor Master” slot and “Meld with Shadows” moved to the “Minor Adept”. SA has no damage boost and reveal is so short anyways. The current Adept is useless. All revive traits need to be removed. Plus it fits the theme of SA more that DA.

Not sure if I’m too late to the thread but does it hurt when you use you left hand fingers or is it both hands? I recommend getting an MMO mouse(Razer Naga-style) and binding the most used skills to it. One thing I would do if you go through this route is to bind dodge to the closest thumb button. Using your thumbs for your main skills should help since it’s much stronger than your other fingers.

As for race, I started with a Charr thief and switched over to Sylvari. I love the backstab animation on Charr but hated their heartseeker jump. Sylvari’s backstab and HS animation is good but one of the main reasons I switched is because I kept getting hate in spvp with my charr even though I played the same. I think there’s a hate(racism?) char gets that more “humanoid” toons don’t. Whatever the reason, I didn’t want to have this stress over a game. I think Charr looks better on trenchcoats than my Sylvari. On the Charr, I look like a pimp, on my Sylvari, I look like I’m wearing a dress.

No need to record. I believe you. BV is feels very unreliable and weak after all the power creep.

I’ve tried playing necro and rev and they are good. It’s just when I play them, I always want to go back to thief. Spent lots of tomes on 3 toons and even deleted one and releveled because I didn’t like the race animation.

I’ve face a few of those mesmers. It’s a weird feeling knowing the time and effort you put into your build, no matter what, can be easily countered by another class/build. Maybe try it out and see if you like it? Stealth for thieves suck. It’s intermitted and short. Lots of classes have counters to stealth(Sic ‘em, ect.) where we don’t have any. I don’t count spamming cluster bombs in refuge a counter since no reveal.

As far as your venomshare comment, BV is unblockable.

It’s interesting that we’ve theorycrafted on the same issue but come to different conclusions. This is my build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAsal8MhCnYxTw0JQ/ELUF181/9hvXGMklQXCEAHAA-TxxIABvpE8IlfbrHQ29Ha/EAsu6PA8AAAA-e

I’m using this build as a solo(as in no help) build. I think the 2 most important thing about my build is SOM and Pistol Whip. Maxing out your endurance/vigor is important but it’s an active defense with no pressure. Pistol Whip gives you evade frame while constantly putting pressure on your target. It’s deceptive. It shows 4 swing animation but it’s really 8 if you check your combat logs. That 8*150(healing from SOM) = 1200 healing just from 1 skill. add the evade heal from driven fortitude (485) plus the regen from Upper Hand and you’re pretty much a tank. Chose Upper Hand over Assassin’s Reward to prevent overheal(wasted heal) and init regen for the rather expensive initiative cost of PW. I went with Lotus training not because of the conditions but the hits. It shoots 3 darts and can target multiple enemies. If you’re pulling a huge group… say 20 raptors in Auric Basin. you can literally dodge 3 times at half health and gain it all back.

Sigil of Draining is nice. It’s a 1k lifesteal on interrupt with no ICD. The whip in Pistol Whip is a stun and you will interrupt enemies often. Add that with the constant pressure of Pulmonary Impact and you’ve got one hell of a solo build.

my rotation when engaging a champ is PW > dodge > PW > Steal(to proc Kleptomaniac) > PW > PW > dodge. From here, you should be in a nice groove to know what to do. I like to keep my endurance low to not waste a Hard to Catch Proc. I use Haste > Black Powder > Dagger Storm to clear out groups and switch it out to Fist Flurry and Impact Strike for champs with breakbars.

I’ve had zerker armor and boy what a mistake that was. I agree with what you said. Getting a mob down to 30-50% in a few seconds means nothing if you’re dead. I’ve found Marauder balances this build out. This solo build in one of few thief build that benefits from celestial trinkets but like I said, SOM and PW are most important principles.