Guild Wars 2

11/18 (Saturday) 11:30 AM Server Time Update

I know it’s early in the match, but current score at roughly 11:30 server time.

So hot that I cried a little.

Remus.7312:

So no one is open to a productive discussion? Makes sense, you all probably come to the forums to QQ…

Really, this is how you try to encourage people to help you?

Update: Roughly 10PM Server Time

Update: Roughly 7:00 PM Server Time

Roughly 6:30 PM Server Time

Roughly 11PM Server Time on Monday Evening

Edit: Whoops… attachment didn’t attach correctly. Sorry about that!

Roughly 8pm Server Time.

Phantasmal Berserker and Phantasmal Warden are missing the following indicator in their tooltips:

Combo Finisher: Whirl

My attempt at an Underwater-Focused Build

Same attempt, different format / details

This is a Condition Damage build that focuses mainly on Bleed damage, Shatter-applied Confusion and Dazes, and maintaining strong survivability. The main weapon used would be the Trident, although the Spear can be used situationally for getaways, gathering groups of enemies, or defensively.

Traits are as follows: 15/0/25/0/30

The build’s gear utilizes extended Condition Duration via Giver’s Weapons and high Condition Damage and Toughness via Rabid gear. (Precision is not as important, but is still present with this gear set.)

The combination of Chaos 25 Trait (Chaotic Transference), Master Tuning Crystals, and 6-rune Bonus of Runes of Undead grants 16% of one’s Toughness as Additional Condition Damage. Rare Veggie Pizza and Master Tuning Crystals are recommended for even longer lasting Conditions and more Condition Damage from Vitality.

The general idea is to keep your opponent locked down with Illusion of Drowning (Trident 5), Blindness from Signet of Midnight and Ineptitude, (Trident 2) Moa (Even more annoying underwater than on land) and repeated Dazes via the Diversion Shatter (F3). Siren’s Call (Trident 1) and Illusionary Whaler (Trident 4) will be used to apply plenty of Bleeds and Confusion to your enemies while clones will provide additional buffs and bleeds.

Imbued Diversion (Illusions Trait XII) might be worth swapping in if you know you’ll be encountering multiple enemies. Even with the confusion damage nerf, this build still applies a lot of damage when your opponents use their skills, which they typically try to do out of desperation between being “crowd-controlled” repeatedly.

One weakness is definitely receiving condition damage yourself, since this build focuses more on Toughness to survive than Vitality. Phantasmal Disenchanter helps with this a little, while also removing boons from your opponents (and providing additional shatter fodder if necessary)

The best part is that this build actually isn’t terrible on land either – mostly it struggles with mobility, so run around with your Quaggan buddies since you should be dominating those weather nodes anyway.

Update at about a quarter after 8:00 PM – PST

Didn’t Thieves just get some pretty nice buffs this past update?

Edit: (Whoops, I meant release… my mistake)

Thief
Skills that must be performed from stealth are now labeled as “Stealth Attack.”
Vigorous Recovery: Improved accuracy of description.
Cloak and Dagger skill: Now functions with the Hidden Killer trait.
Needle Trap skill: Removed the duration skill fact as being misleading.
Shadow Shot skill: The projectile portion is now unblockable.
Choking Gas skill: Added an Unblockable skill fact to reflect functionality.
Flanking Strike skill:
Now evades and delivers one strike instead of delivering two attacks.
Removed boon removal.
Reduced initiative cost from 4 to 3.
Now toggles for 5 seconds to a second skill, Larcenous Strike, if the attack hits an enemy.
Improved reliability of flanking strike.
Larcenous Strike: Deliver a quick strike that steals up to two boons from an enemy. Costs 1 initiative.
Larcenous Strike, Stab skills: Reduced aftercast by 0.5 seconds.
Mug trait: Can no longer critically hit. Now heals the thief from a range of 1980 health to 2700 health.
Leeching Venoms trait: Increased the damage scale from power by 33%. Increased range from 325-400 to 325-425.
Signet of Agility skill: Increased passive stat bonus by 100%.
Assassin’s Signet skill: Increased passive stat bonus by 100%.
Revealed effect: Reverted duration to 3 seconds in PvE.
Trick Shot skill: First arrow is no longer heat-seeking.
Smoke Screen skill: No longer destroys unblockable missiles.
Haste skill:
Increased duration by 1 second.
Players now regenerate endurance at 50% effectiveness (increased from 0%) when under the effects of this skill.

I like the idea of having them viewable as optional, similar to how displaying them is optional. I’m eager for this to be implemented, as minor as it may seem.

For the record, I was mistaken on the color changing within tiers idea. It should and will be addressed, luckily!

jamesigall.5938, I sincerely appreciate that you took the time to give a dedicated PvE player a voice on the forum. I definitely understand the kind of player prejudice that can occur that bladie.5084 was talking about too.

I like the idea of creating separate achievements for the different types of play. As a mostly casual player, I personally find WvW much more accessible than Explore Mode Dungeons and High Level Fractals, especially when nearly half of the community seems to only want to bring “Experienced” players along for speed / farm runs, etc.

Different Gifts for different folks? Why, that sounds like the kind of game play environment that would allow people to play the game as they wanted to…

I’d just like to say that despite my initial doubts about making this thread, I’m now really glad that I did. I’m grateful for the comments made on all sides of the argument, and am pleased that people have been exposed to multiple perspectives of not only this issue, but also about playing the game in general.

There’s a lot of people that play thus game – we come from different time zones, lifestyles, and levels of game experience. We like different things and want different things out of playing the game. I think the posts in this thread make that pretty clear.

I’m happy that folks who don’t normally post on the World vs World forum came out of the woodwork and made their voices heard. I’m relieved that my guild and I aren’t the only people that have had experiences like these regarding World vs World style play.

I have a lot of fun playing with my friends, both in PvP and in PvE. I’m confident that we’ll keep having fun, and hope to keep it that way.

Oliver.7201:

You just got to feel bad for those poor PvErs; to have that star dangled above their heads for so long and just as they are about to get it, have snatched away by waves of invaders killing a looting all over them. All they want is to explore; thats what the Star is about right? The spirit of exploration and the excitement of somewhere new ~Sigh~ well I guess you can’t have your bread buttered on both sides.

~Mystical Old Man Voice~
(And so with heavy hearts the PvErs took up arms and went to WvW and killed and looted there way to all the points. A long painful journey, much longer then it was painful and more painful because it was longer. days turned into weeks, weeks turned into months; many gave up, many stopped caring, some went insane, other simply gave into the dark. But in the end they got their star dripped in blood their quest for exploration done, their spirit for exploration all but destroyed and their souls in tatters. Then they stopped playing and moved on with their lives to do more importent things like the dishes. The End)

That was the best bedtime story ever.

bravoart.5308:

SvenskNavi.9378:

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

Valik Shin.9027:

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

Make a well thought out post on the WvW forums, first two replies shows you exactly why most casual PvE players don’t want to enter WvW.

I think my favorite part of this whole thread , (Which I’d intended to ignore, but it just got so many comments…) is that I actually do actively participate in World vs World. I was just posting on behalf of people who would prefer not to, and also prefer not to post on the forums.

In any case, thank you for the support.

A little after 9:00 PST.

If they did this, maybe people would move to less populated servers just so they could queue.

It could help balance the population a bit.

I’m deeply shocked and appalled about the general hostility within this part of the community.

I’ll be happy to let this thread die at this point. I got my concern for other players across, got my Staff answer, and opened my eyes a bit about how little I have in common with many fellow WvW players.

Hope to see you on the battlefield.

Immolator.5640:

@Sinaya, to mimic and twist your argument,

Why do PvE’rs have to have map completion? Other than legendaries I can’t think of much, unless you like having the nice star icon next to your name that proves you’re well travelled – does this make you more effective in PvE? Not really.

WvW players should obviously not care to want Legendaries or map completion stars, seeing as having awesome aesthetics adds nothing statistically to our playstyle, we shouldn’t want them. I think tbh that I should be allowed to ‘want’ nice things, without having to jeopardise my ‘pure WvW’ playstyle, but still I have to dip myself into the unpleasant business of CoF farming to make ends meet. If we want to go do map completion for a legendary or a star icon, let us, because we have just as much entitlement as you do. We should really be complaining louder than you because we need to go for 80% to boring generic PvE zoned and slap this monster with this sword, or press F on this thing, to get those awful heart things done.

To get your legendary or your completion star, you have to work for it and dip your feet into every part of the game – complete it, some might say. That involves actually playing it, not waiting for a week so you can stroll into a tower instead. Go and fight and die for your server like the rest of us, work for your tower, capture it, fight, kill, win, make an effort; play World Versus World.

We have to press F on interactive objects all day like you PvErs, should we dare to want a nice weapon.

Map Completion and gaining a Legendary are different animals.

A Legendary requires 500 Badges of Honor, which means that a player would have to dip into WvW anyway.

I don’t really appreciate the implication that PvE players are lazy or have it easy. If that were the case, then WvWer’s would have anything to complain about regarding the other 95% of map completion.

Seriously, the animosity some players feel towards other players is startling. I’ve already finished my map completion, and participate in WvW because I have fun with it sometimes. Other players don’t feel the same way, and I don’t think it’s fair that they be forced to deal with, for lack of a better term, the likes of PvPers.

Y’all don’t really seem to want them on your precious map anyway, filling up your queues and taking up space.

It’s sort of moot anyway since changes are apparently coming – I just hope it happens soon.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think you should change the title of this thread to “I want World Completion to not be challenging”.

Also, there are a lot of these complaint threads existing already. You should join the chats in those threads instead of making duplicate ones.

Because there’s no duplicated threads about anything anywhere else on the forum, right?

Any WvW junkie will tell you that World Completion is plenty challenging, since they don’t want to deal with the other 95% of the map, apparently. A few of them posted here.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently in the process of taking some steps to alleviate this. Both on the stagnant match side and on the server color side.

Glad to hear it, thank you!

I don’t think that expecting a player to pay gems in order to change servers simply for world completion is an acceptable solution, especially if said player has no desire to leave their current server, in which case they’d have to pay the gem fee again in order to come back.

I hope the in-tier color rotation change comes soon, and that the amount of compassion on the forums isn’t always this shockingly low. I’m beginning to understand why they’re avoided by some.

Handin.4032:

Sinaya.4201:

Not everyone wants to play in WvW, but not wanting to play there shouldn’t limit one’s access to Map Completion.

This statement right here only proves my point. You’re saying you don’t want to have to do WvW stuff since you don’t want to play WvW. However, there are quite a few WvW’ers who don’t like doing PvE map completion, grinding dungeons endlessly, etc. It really stuns me that PvE’ers come in here and make this argument, then go against their argument by saying that it’s not the same the other way around.

That being said, I agree, if you don’t want to WvW, you shouldn’t have to, so, like it has been said on the forums many times, the devs are working on introducing color rotations. SO, you’ll just have to wait, or go play some WvW.

What would a WvW’er have to do PvE for other than… well, I can’t think of anything other than a Legendary or Back Items honestly. Ascended Trinkets (Except for back items) are available via Laurels, which are available to every play style. (Even sPvP) All of the armor and weapon stat combinations are available via Badges of Honor. Unless you’re looking for a specific Skin or something, the WvW-shouldn’t-have-to-PvE argument doesn’t really stand up.

A purist in WvW probably wouldn’t care about armor skins or a legendary weapon as they don’t have any impact on actual PvP.

Also, the reason people keep complaining is because nothing has changed yet. Meanwhile, WvW continues to see changes every update, if not every month (however small or controversial)

Handin.4032:

But yes, I agree, the current system hampers world completion, I mean, I have to get the over 95% in PvE zones which interferes with my WvW. And let me tell you..thats a much bigger number than the WvW map completion…

I don’t think that’s really the point. Players who don’t want to participate in player vs player play must play in PvP in order to complete their map. I don’t think that this is particularly fair. MMO’s can be entirely about cooperative play, a play style that this particular game caters to very well – up until this point of map completion. It’s frustrating for a completionist to earn 95% of their map completion only to find that they have to subject themselves to WvW in order to earn their map achievement.

Players who only want to participate in PvP exclusively can PvP all day with minimal or no PvE exposure, more so now than ever with additional gear being available in exchange for Badges of Honor and WvW-specific Daily Quest options.

I personally enjoy WvW for the most part, but I empathize with my friends who don’t want to participate in PvP for any number of reasons but feel the need to in order to complete their maps. I feel even more sorry for them when they find that they can’t complete their maps because of relative server strength in PvP.

If it wasn’t meant to be for alleged “carebears” then it shouldn’t incorporate PvE elements. I don’t think it’s the intention of ArenaNet to make parts of the game inaccessible for certain styles of game play yet force players to complete them if they want to achieve something in another part of the game. (Well, maybe Fractals, but they’ve since broadened access to Ascended Trinkets)

Not everyone wants to play in WvW, but not wanting to play there shouldn’t limit one’s access to Map Completion.

SvenskiNavi, not everyone cares about Legendaries, contrary to popular belief. Some players just want map completion for map completion’s sake. They’re the same players that try to unlock 100% on Super Mario World or whatever. If the argument is that someone should have to participate in WvW in order to earn a Legendary, there’s already the 500 Badge of Honor requirement. Map Completion should either be separate or easier, whether by changing the color rotation or removing the WvW map points of interest / vistas as necessary for completion.

Valik Shin, there’s WvW / PvP players who have complaints about the current system apart from the map completion issue, myself included. I don’t appreciate your tone.

I’ll start by saying that I’m posting on behalf of some friends of mine who joined the game recently, as well as my partner, who started playing in the Beta before we had to take a break from the game for a little while. (I’ve had my map finished for a while, but they deliberately about forum interaction.)

The fact that World Vs World maps are part of map completion combined with how relatively stagnant the current server ranking system has become makes it very difficult for many individuals to complete their world maps.

Back in the early days when match ups basically changed weekly, the rotations were not only more dynamic, but also had a tendency to mix up the color your server would represent. Our server has been stuck as the “red” server for two months and counting (if not more than that,) and certain points of interest and vista on the map have remained very difficult to capture.

Whether this is because the servers we’re up against are too challenging or that we’re not organized enough to take the towers isn’t really what I’m trying to address – I’d rather address the relative ease one used to have in getting to those locations on the map. If it was too rough to get one week, you could wait a week or two for the colors to rotate in your favor. Now the advice other players offer is either “pay some gems to transfer servers” or “buy a commander tag and lead an assault on where you need,” neither of which are easily accessible or desirable for most casual players. (Please don’t tell me that gold is “so easy” to get in this game, either – I’ve heard it, and am also conscious that not every player has the same experience regarding in-game wealth.)

I’d like to see a weekly rotation of colors within tiers, and / or a different scoring system that would allow for more dynamic match ups. The current system encourages server transfers, which I understand is a gem / gold sink, and thus might be intentional, but is not very player-friendly. Hopefully this is in the works, but more importantly I hope these changes are coming soon if they are indeed coming at all.

Score update: roughly Midnight PST.

declan.3968:

We all saw what happened to Tier 8. The short answer is that like it or not, us moving up a tier is beyond our control right now, and CD giving up is not going to make us move up any faster. Besides, completely giving up is rather weak.

Actually, we didn’t all see whatever it is you’re talking about. What happened to Tier 8?

It’s easy to call it weak when you’re not the one getting hammered all the time. I prefer to call it non-participation. :P

If anything, maybe should just bomb for a week as an experiment to see what sort of impact it has on the standings, wait for this multi-box madness on SBI to clear up, and then come back fresh and recharged. We might even have the element of surprise on our side if we surge on a weird day or something.

Whatever tactics we’re currently trying to employ obviously aren’t working since even if we can beat SBI for the weekend and maybe the next day into the week, our coverage diminishes by the middle of the weekly reset and we’re typically back on the bottom again. Even if we’re not on the bottom, we’ll be nowhere near where SoS is.

Weren’t MERC and FANG originally on CD? I think the real salt in the wound is seeing folks you used to play with /laugh at your corpse after wiping you 5:1.

It just feels like limbo. It’s amazing how SoS continues to applaud our tenacity and sympathize with our plight having been through similar issues dealing with higher tiers, but doesn’t seem particularly interested in changing their current winning streak at all. Funny how that works.

I feel like there’s potential to learn things by getting beaten all the time, but that there’s also a potential to simply quit when the game stops being fun. I think that the latter is far more likely with the current set up, and hope that players recognize that something needs to change in order for us to see improvement.

The only ideas I have:

1) Anet incorporates some sort of ladder / seasons to prevent this kind of stagnation.
2) Crystal Desert and / or Stormbluff isle gain some Oceanic coverage
3) Sea of Sorrows loses some Oceanic Coverage
4) The losing servers stop trying, forcing Sea of Sorrows to move up. (Even if Yak’s Bend drops down a tier, at least it we would be losing to some new faces)

The 4th option is the only one I feel any personal control over. While one person not playing is unlikely to have any sort of impact, entire guilds leaving the battlefield could potentially make some change, right?

How did SoS drop from Tier 1 to Tier 4, anyway? Lost guilds? Got tired? I’d love to hear that bedtime story.

(I understand that this is ridiculous.)

I think it would be great if our server dropped a tier. World vs. World has been pretty frustrating with our current match up, and we basically have no hope of changing tiers if things stay they way they are.

A crazy potential solution? Stop playing World vs. World for a week or so.

Ideally, this would force Sea of Sorrows to move up a tier, or potentially drop us down a tier. Either way, it would be a change of scenery. We’ve been up against the same servers for months, but the situation is only becoming more difficult as we lose guilds.

I know that this post will probably get flamed, but I’m definitely taking some time off of this part of the game for a little while. The amount of fun it provides for me diminishes every day, despite how it used to be my favorite part of the game.

I just really hope there will be something else fun / productive to do besides Fractals and dragon events… nothing is quite as dynamic as World vs. World, but the dynamic aspect of that arena loses its appeal when the end result is always the same server winning each week.

Tobias Steele.2071:

Please name who you were quoting that stated that.

No.

Tobias Steele.2071:

Otherwise, its just pointless whining.

That’s your opinion. I think that it’s important for people to know that they’re making the game less fun for other people.

Tobias Steele.2071:

When I say you guys fight well I kitten mean it, that’s not condescending its a compliment. Granted we have a couple of forum trolls, but they dont speak for the server, and realistically, they’re nothing compared to the trolls of the past.

Don’t care. Intent vs impact here. It seems like a compliment to you, but I’d rather that the server just move on and quit being the big fish in the little pond.

Mushrooms.6158:

I realize Crystal Desert is t4, but we’re gunna be t5 soon anyway if we don’t get get some fresh blood

One can only hope. Let us fall to tier 5 already please.

I agree with the OP entirely. Tier 4 is miserable for the two bottom teams, who are admittedly pretty well matched.

The top server our on tier always has a huge lead though. The cause is debatable. Numbers, skills, coverage? All of the above? Regardless, they always way ahead, and it’s not a lot of fun to be the underdogs for months on end.

I’d really like this to be addressed somehow. Perhaps ladder seasons to mix things up a little?

You guys have a queue? We’d forgotten what that’s like. I wonder what it’s like to be on a populated server.

I’m so sick and tired of this match up and the “it’s so fun beating you guys – you really put up a good fight” garbage SoS keeps spewing. It’s extremely condescending and we wish you were good enough to move up in tiers already.

Lumines.3916:

The Mesmer lacks any reliable finisher and the most you’ll ever touch of the combo system is chaos storm > phase retreat. It’s chaos fields however can be utilized by other players bringing its unikittenfects.

Pistol Phantasm + Ethereal Field was great before the Confusion nerf. Even now, it’s a good and reliable Physical Projectile combo.

Mirror Blade (Great Sword) and Magic Bullet (Pistol) are also reliable Physical Projectile Combos.

For Leaps, we’ve got Illusionary Leap (Main Hand Sword) Phase Retreat (Staff) and Phantasmal Swordsman (Off Hand Sword, although this mostly benefits the phantasm)

The Torch also grants (the admittedly finicky) Prestige skill for a Blast Finisher.

Phantasmal Warden and Phantasmal Berserker both provide Whirl Combo finishers, although their respective tool tips do not reflect this.

Plenty of opportunities for combos.

dreztina.4820:

Personally I think mesmers are the most broken class in the game and are severely in need of a nerf. However, having said that, you shouldn’t feel underpowered as an ele, and you generally shouldn’t lose to a mesmer 1v1 unless they’re running confusion in wvw in which case they’re a kitten and you should feel free to simply leave.

Does anyone else read this as “mesmers are the most broken class in the game – but elementalists should still be able to beat them” ?

Are people seriously transferring servers just to troll around with Commander tags? That’s pretty low.

Chris.3290:

There is an understanding between me and my guildies that if I insist on going on forums and being a nuisance, that they be left out of it. Since I am obliged to not disclose my guild name due to previously mentioned poor behavior, it would be pointless for me to confirm or deny which guild I belong to.

I can assure you that my (negative) opinions do not in any way, reflect the attitudes of my guild and server community.

So please stop guessing randomly, because eventually you will guess right and then I’ll be forced to stop replying here LOL.

1) That’s a pretty sure leash they’ve got you on there, kiddo.

2) If your (negative) opinions do not reflect the attitudes of your guild and server, then what does it matter what guild you’re in?

3) Forced to stop replying here? Now you’ve just given people incentive to keep guessing.

To the Thief in Shiv Shank Redemption [Gank] on Sea of Sorrows,

You’re incredibly annoying and I loathe seeing (Or rather, not seeing… since you just stealth and run away repeatedly) your face on the battlefield.

Please go away, thanks.

I use this as my phantasm build – (sort of, it’s changing)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Mindgasm-Mesmer-Budget-WvW/first#post1950259

I can’t emphasize enough how awesome the Focus is when traited. I definitely agree that it’s not great as a Shatter weapon though.

I’m revisiting this build since Conditions are less viable now… I’ve also since learned that Mimic is amazing.

Still tinkering with gear and stat distribution. I think I’ll keep the trait point setup, but may change some of the major traits around.

Does anyone run something similar to this? I’d love to talk shop!

Erawen.8217:

Sinaya – I read your comments, but really what stuck out was your guild tag. I’m hungry and now all I can think about is wanting some [Blue]berry pancakes.

That makes me wish that I could hand out blueberries or something when people kill me, which is a lot. I’m easy to spot – there’s only like two or three people on my server with my guild’s tag anymore. :P

Chris.3290:

Snipped excuses

Wait, is your guild leader Luvpie?

… didn’t your guild server jump from Crystal Desert ages ago?

We’re definitely not the same server that y’all left behind. Not by a long shot.

frostshade.3617:

Cuz it already exists somewhere else and is common knowledge 50% confusion 33% retaliation

I disagree. I’m not sure what your definition of “common knowledge” is, but unless there’s an explicit tool tip or a special sPvP letter than comes in the mail or something, I don’t think it’s fair to assume that damage scaling in structured PvP is common knowledge in the community.

Aughhhhhh… now I’ve gone back and read Chris.3290’s older posts and am even more convinced of his/her (likely his, subjectively based on writing tone,) relative integrity regarding our Tier’s WvW Community.

Then I went back and read my own last few posts on the forums and after some painful self-reflection realized that I’m a huge QQ baby and am going to go back to farming Centaurs and crying into my pillow at night.

… with a Greatsword, because Confusion is nerfed and was never viable in PvE anyway. T_T