Guild Wars 2

Rangers, along with Thieves, are fine in group PvE but they’ve been given a bad reputation by all of the mouth-breathers that play them. I’m a bit wary of grouping with Rangers (or Thieves) in PvE but I’ve never kicked or seen someone get kicked just for their class…

There are a lot of idiots out there that think only Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers are any good in PvE; ignore them.

In GW2 many North American servers have developed their own individual identities and I just thought it would be interesting to see what other server reputations people have encountered.

In my experience:

- Crystal Desert is the LGBT server.
- Anvil Rock is the sPvP server.
- Tarnished Coast is the RP server, and one of the biggest PvE servers.

Terror builds got pretty significant indirect buffs…

1. Spectral Wall gives you another AoE Fear now, which is a HUGE deal without even considering how long it lasts and how short the CD is (TL;DR: Spectral Wall is OP).

2. Better Life Force generation = more access to Death Shroud = more access to Doom

3. Better Life Force generation = more access to Death Shroud = more access to damage soak (and Condi builds need to be able to stay alive long enough to deal damage).

3. The introduction of Torment buffed Terror builds more than anything else because they just work so ridiculously well together. Torment is a condition so it causes Terror’d Fear to deal extra damage, and Fear forces your enemy to move so it causes Torment to deal extra damage.

That’s not even everything… plenty of the other changes effected Terror builds in a positive way too.

I played Terrormancer frequently before the latest buffs to Necro and thought it was already a very strong build. You can’t just saying “Well the Terror trait didn’t get buffed so how is it OP now?!” because that’s not all the build uses…

1. Eternal Spirit changed to: “Spirit Weapons are not destroyed when commanded and have 20% more health.”

2. Revenge of the Fallen changed to: “Increased damage by 50% while downed. Gain Retaliation for 4 seconds and three stacks of Might for 10 seconds when you rally.”

3. Shimmering Defense changed to: “Burn and blind nearby foes when your health reaches 25% (60-second cooldown).”

4. Inner Fire changed to: “Reduces damage taken from burning foes by 10%.”

5. Searing Flames changed to: “When you apply burning to a foe, remove a boon and gain Fury for 3 seconds. This effect can only trigger once every 20 seconds.”

6. Inscribed Removal removed.

7. Perfect Inscriptions changed to: “When you activate a signet, you lose one condition and gain Aegis for 5 seconds. Signet passive effects are improved.”

8. A Fire Inside replaced with Empowered Spirits.

9. Empowered Spirits: “Spirit Weapons give themselves boons and cause conditions.”
Sword of Justice – Gains 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds (10 second cooldown) and causes burning for 1 second.
Hammer of Wisdom – Gains stability for 10 seconds (10 second cooldown) and causes vulnerability for 5 seconds.
Shield of the Avenger – Gains protection for 10 seconds (10 second cooldown) and causes chill for 3 seconds.
Bow of Truth – Gains regeneration for 10 seconds (10 second cooldown) and causes blind for 3 seconds. (Oh, and let BoT attack enemies)

10. Focused Mind combined with Meditation Mastery.

11. Protective Reviver removed.

12. Resolute Healer changed to: "Generates a Shield of Absorption when you start reviving an ally. This effect cannot trigger more than once every 60 seconds. When you revive an ally you both gain protection and regeneration for 5 seconds.

13. Wrathful Spirit combined with Shattered Aegis.

14. Writ of Exaltation combined with Writ of Persistence.

15. Battle Presence changed to: “Nearby allies gain the passive effects of your virtues.”

16. Retaliatory Subconscious combined with Vengeful. Retaliation duration increased to 6 seconds from 3 seconds.

17. Elite Focus changed to: “Elite skills last twice as long.”

I don’t think Engi’s downed #2 is a problem.

- It doesn’t make you easier to finish by “shortening their way towards” you because it’s not like Engi’s can kite/move while downed anyway.
- Having a way to interrupt a stomp is nothing to scoff at.
- It chains together very well with the #3.

What does bother me about Engi’s downed state though is that you’re very vulnerable to body-blocking (#1 and #2 are neither piercing nor AoE). I think it would be nice if #1 could “explode” in a small AoE around your target.

Weirwynn.2390:

I don’t really think that having a long range (though it’s no longer than others in the engineer’s arenal—grenades, notably) really means it “should” be used at long range. As it is, the autoattack is good for chasing down people after you scare them with some order of net/jump/blunderbuss/overcharge. PvE is a little different, but still, the rifle is a control weapon, so having a flexible autoattack is beneficial.

I actually rather like that about a lot of our abilities; they generally work well at all ranges (blunderbuss aside). Things like being able to grenade from 1500 units, or point blank, etc. It gives us a flexibility that’s very much in-line with our style.

I just feel like Blunderbuss could fit so much better with the rest of Rifle’s skills than it does currently. The way I see it this would be fixed by one of two changes; making Hip Shot encourage you to get into close range, or just completely reworking Blunderbuss (which I don’t think anyone would really object to).

Life Blast: This skill now scales based on range instead of amount of life force. At more than 600 units, this skill’s low value has been increased by 43%; at less than 600 units, this skill uses the old high value. Range has been increased to 1200.

(Basically dealing less damage the further your target is from you and more damage the closer they are to you.)

I think replacing Hip Shot’s piercing with doing more damage the closer you are to your target would make Engi’s Rifle feel a lot more cohesive. Currently, Hip Shot makes it seem like you should keep your distance (since it’s the longest range weapon available to Engi’s) and that just makes Blunderbuss really awkward because it encourages you to get up close. If Hip Shot had this mechanic instead it wouldn’t feel so much like you’re being told to do two conflicting things (maintain distance and get close) while using Rifle.

What do yall think?

So you mean it’s useless now just like Signet of Mercy for Guardians and Glyph of Renewal for Ele’s? Obviously the nerf to S&R was a hate crime against Rangers…

Zenith.7301:

Yup, it’s kind of amazing they justified the crap staff necro auto by saying it pierces, as if the crap damage it did was any good because it pierced non moving targets.

But, hey, no meaningful changes to necros or rangers.

Warriors in PvE got even MORE buffs.

I’ve literally NEVER understood how Necro’s can complain about Staff’s #1, even after playing the class myself. Necro Staff #1 pierces (unlike Guardian Scepter #1) without a trait (unlike Ranger LB #1) and is one of the best, if not the best, generators of Life Force. Necro Staff #2-4 are strong too because they give you 4 Marks to use which, when traited, are unblockable and have a huge radius.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Uh, there’s nothing wrong with LB auto. It’s supposed to be slow and weak, and of course you can evade projectiles by moving. Guardian and necro projectiles were borked because you could literally make them impossible to hit by strafing left and right, which would cause them to try to adjust and shoot out at a 45-degree angle.

^

@ OP: Ranger LB #1 being slow and weak up close is kinda the whole point of the weapon. You also seem to be, conveniently, forgetting that Guardians have a MUCH more limited selection of ranged weapons than Rangers do. When Guardian’s only long range weapon is hilariously unreliable it makes the class weak in any situation requiring ranged combat. I can’t even believe people are treating this like a valid argument. Lets just take a brief look at how inferior Guardian’s ranged options are compared to Ranger’s.

Ranger LB #1
- 1.2k range (1.5k range if traited)
- 20% chance Physical Projectile finisher (can always pierce if traited)

Ranger SB #1
- 1.2k range
- 20% chance Physical Projectile finisher (can always pierce if traited)

Ranger Axe #1
- 900 range
- Hits up to 3 nearby targets
- Each bounce has a 20% chance Physical Projectile finisher

Guardian Scepter #1
- 1.2k range

Guardian Staff #1
- 600 range
- Hits up to 5 targets in a cone

Lord Kreegan.8123:

Wayyyy lonnngggg past the pat-on-the-back phase…

Most of these stupid awards are just part of the marketing/advertisement game (compare the number of advertisements on game sites by a game company to the amount of awards their games get from that site; there’s a very obvious correlation).

I have noticed some very crappy games getting the various game of the year awards; don’t be naive about it.

Nice conspiracy theory, don’t forget to wear your tin foil hat.

Guardian Bunkers:
- Stronger source of Stability
- Better area control (knock-backs, Wards, etc)
- Better CC
- Can heal others while downed (can be very useful)
- Only heal guaranteed to fully heal self and party members, unaffected by Poison
- Stronger party healing

- Severely lacks mobility
- Shorter range than D/D Ele (Scepter technically has longer range but always misses)
- Hard countered by Stability (because of all the knock-backs)
- Weak to Traps/Marks/Bombs (because they’re unblockable)

Elementalist Bunkers:
- Perma Vigor, Fury, and Swiftness
- Spammable Protection, Regeneration, and Might
- MUCH better mobility/roaming
- Very strong downed mobility
- Stronger self-healing
- Stronger kiting
- Stronger condition damage (ignores Toughness)
- Better damage and especially burst
- Spammable Chill
- Mist Form and Vapor Form are just… amazing
- Mist Form stomping is OP
- Able to reset any fight (RtL away, heal up, and come back)

Both:
- Strong against bursty Glass Cannons (Warrs/Thieves)
- Strong against light Condition spamming
- Weak against HEAVY Condition spamming
- VERY weak against heavy Boon removal (Necro’s)
- HEAVILY reliant on defensive CD’s, self-healing, and Boons to stay alive
- Lower damage than other builds
- Very strong team utility (Boons, healing, etc)
- Punishes people for attacking them (Reflects damage or Chills/Stuns, respectively)

Arheundel.6451:

Someone afraid once they finish with ele…they start with bunker guardian haha

What?

I used a zone control oriented bunker with Sword + Shield and Hammer for awhile but lately I’ve been using a more support/healing heavy bunker with Mace + Shield and Staff. I can’t really cap a point from under someone as easily as I could when using a Hammer but I’m really loving Staff, especially Empower. With 12+ stacks of Might my Retaliation from “SYG!” and “SY!” does a really impressive amount of damage and is amazing against fast attackers like Thieves and 100b Warrs. Aside from Retaliation though I do laughable damage, even for a Bunker, so it feels like a build that’s better suited for organized sPvP.

Here are some builds I’ve thrown together;

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeWlUgqC33RPEm4ESmCRCBxUgRZ01DHSiYIA;T0AgzCmoyyklILbWuskZt+Y0w5j3HzPA

- Support/Healing Bunker
- Can swap out Shouts and AH for Meditations and MF
- I usually swap out Sanctuary for CoP, and adjust traits acordingly, against condition heavy teams with Necro’s/Rangers

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAreSlUgqCHHSPEm4ESmCRCBxUgRZ01DISiYIA;T0AgzCmoyyklILbWuskZt+Y0w5j3HzPA

- Control Bunker
- Can swap out Judge’s Intervention for “SY!” but then you don’t have a way to jump back on point when knocked away
- Can actually contribute at range with Scepter, even if it’ll miss 80% of the time
- Two ways to seal off an area, two knock-backs, two ranged Immobilizes, and a Daze

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRApd8elUgqC33RLEf4ESmiVCBxUgRc01DHSiYIA;T4AgzCmoyyklILbWuskZtuY0w5j9HvPmfA

- Survival Bunker
- Can swap out “SY!” or “HtL!” for CoP or Sanctuary.
- Can swap out Renewed Focus for Tome of Courage
- Has great tankyness with multiple blinds, blocks, and sources of healing
- Severely lacking zone control and CC

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAseSlUgqC33xIEfIFRuA7DEETBGz41DHKRGC;T4AA1CtoyyklILbWuskZt+Y0w5j9HvPmfA

- Hybrid Bunker
- Can swap Signet for Sanctuary, CoP, or Judge’s Intervention
- Has some ability to deal damage and put up a decent fight
- Has a bit more mobility
- Not as tanky or supportive as other Bunker builds

I play a Bunker Guardian almost exclusively in sPvP and just thought it would be interesting to have a dedicated discussion thread for it. Feel free to ask questions, give advice, or just share your thoughts here as long as it relates to Bunker Guardians.

Some things to talk about (ice breakers ;O) :

1. What Bunker Guardian build do you prefer to use?
- Shouts + Altruistic Healing, Meditations + Monk’s Focus, or a mixture?
- Tome of Courage or Renewed Focus?
- When to use Sanctuary and/or Wall of Reflection, if at all?
- What weapons do you prefer?
- What stat combination do you prefer?
- What sigils/runes do you prefer?

2. What classes/builds do you feel Bunker Guardians work the best with on their team?
- Why do you think they work so well together?

3. What classes/builds do you feel Bunker Guardians have the most trouble against?
- How do you deal with these classes/builds?

4. What classes/builds do you feel Bunker Guardians are strongest against?
- What do you think makes them strong against these classes/builds?

5. Tips/questions about the Bunker Guardian’s play-style in general.
- When is it OK to leave your point?
- What if you’re unable to re-cap/hold your point?
- How do you manage CD’s?
- How do you handle secondary objectives (Lord, Bosses, Buffs), if at all?
- How does your play-style/build differ between Hot Joins, Free’s, and Paid’s?

It’s hard to put each class in a list from best to worst due to all the factors that come into play but in my experience…

From a Bunker Guardian’s POV:
1. Elementalist
2. Mesmer
3. Ranger
4. Guardian
5. Necromancer
6. Engineer
7. Thief
8. Warrior

From a general POV:
1. Elementalist
2. Mesmer
3. Guardian
4. Ranger
5. Engineer
6. Necromancer
7. Thief
8. Warrior

Necromancer and Engineers are both really close imo. Necro’s are incredible against bunkers (which are obviously very popular) due to Corrupt Boon and unblockable Marks, among other things, so obviously I have more trouble against them as a bunker. Although, Engineer’s are strong in their own right with great CC, burst, and zone control plus the amazing utility from Elixir R and Elixir S. Even though Thieves and Warriors are at the bottom of the list I still think both are strong in sPvP. Warriors can put out absolutely ridiculous burst damage, are a little tanky from using Heavy armor with possibly a Shield in their second weapon set, and Vengeance can completely turn around a close team-fight. Thieves are similar to D/D Ele’s in that they’re incredibly mobile and can escape from almost any situation which makes them excellent roamers. Obviously though Thieves are much more focused on offense than defense so instead of massive healing and tankyness like an Ele they have massive burst and stealth’s utility.

In my opinion a lot of people undervalue Thieves and Warr’s because they’re meant to counter squishies but don’t do as well against bunkers (which are more common).

It’s hilarious when people try to defend D/D Bunker Ele’s as if they’re not blatantly OP.

hharry.1967:

Legendaries are also available in sPvP, we just dont know how to get them yet. Max rank maybe? Big tourneys? As i said, they are two different games just because you farmed hours and hours in PvE doesnt mean you should have earned it for sPvP as well. Only people who is great at sPvP should get it.
Also why only legendaries? Why not every skin? After all they are just another item with shinny effects.

I don’t agree.

Also, the whole point of Legendaries is that they have more shiny effects so I don’t see how that has to do with anything.

hharry.1967:

Because sPvP and Pve/WvWvW are two total different games, why cant i use my sPvP skins in PvE?

Im sure legendaries will be rewards of big tournaments on the future, which ofc, you wont be able to use in Pve

Like I said Legendaries are meant to be the “best” of each weapon type in the ENTIRE game including sPvP and WvW. Also, most PvP skins are available in PvE.

So you see one ignorant idiot and use that as proof that Engi’s are broken/UP?

I’m up to FotM lvl 40 and not ONCE have I seen anyone say “No X (Engi’s/Rangers/etc)” or felt like Engi’s in my team were doing poorly and/or holding us back.

Please stop, you’re flat out wrong.

I just got The Moot last night and while I absolutely love it I’m a little saddened by the fact that you’re unable to use your legendary’s skin in sPvP. They’re supposed to be the “ultimate” versions of each weapon (hence why they’ll be upgraded if/when ascended weapons are released) so why do I have to downgrade when I want to play sPvP?

My first thought as to why you can’t use them in sPvP was possible concerns over balance because of their flashy/different effects. If anything though it would make fighting someone with a legendary simpler because you’d easily be able to read their animations. Asura are seen as OP in sPvP because their character and weapon models are so tiny that it’s difficult to judge what weapons/abilities/etc they’re using. Obviously being able to accurately read your animations is a very beneficial thing to the people fighting you. You’d also be able to instantly know what weapon an enemy is using, and as a result what skills they have access to, from across the map because of footsteps/aura’s/sounds/etc.

“Hmm, I wonder if that Greatsword Warrior is using Hundred Blades…”
- Oh, he’s using Sunrise/Twilight so I can see him rapidly trashing at the air from a mile away due to the super obvious trail that’s left behind whenever he swings.

“Hmm, I wonder if that Hammer Guardian is trying to use Banish on me…”
- Oh, he’s using Juggernaut so his drawn-out underhanded swing (Banish’s animation) is super obvious because it leaves behind a trail of quicksilver.

If this meant that using a legendary is too much of a “handicap” for some then they could simply chose not to use it; everyone wins.

It doesn’t seem like it would be hard to implement either. When you soulbind a Legendary it could just send you a PvP-only version in the mail or some other method of distribution could be used.

Ragnarawk.8697:

I heard that this is no longer possible. I would check around the forums for this before transmuting anything.

It’s still completely possible, I did it myself two days ago.

1. Buy the Order of Whispers armor on your character in that order.
2. Transmute the Order of Whispers armor to WHITE quality armor, this will make it account-bound.
3. Transmute the transmuted Order of Whispers armor to whatever armor you want to use on your other character.

This is just a little thing that’s been bothering me when I use Tome of Wrath on my female Human Guardian. Whenever I use Smiter’s Boon (Might + Swiftness) she says “Hit them fast!” and whenever I use Zealot’s Fervor (Fury + Quickness) she says “Hit them hard!”. The added audio is really cool but wouldn’t it make more sense if they were swapped? Might, more so than Fury, directly makes you hit harder and Quickness, rather than Swiftness, makes you hit faster.

I’m not sure what other race/gender combo’s say though so this might not be relevant to everyone. :P

NargofWoV.4267:

Ok, I’ll bite… Who thinks the Ranger class is strong? We seem to have 1 build that is viable in sPvP, and the rest of the time we Rangers argue about the level of uselessness of our class in wvwvw. So, who’s considering us strong?

A lot of sPvP’ers are talking about Trap/Condition Rangers like they’re the new FotM.

EDIT:

Ok I will troll…

Paper, rock,scissors.

Hear to stay unless they get rid of all classes and have just one profession, everyone wears same gear and has the same spells, traits amour and weps.

Bored of these posts…

Like I said in my OP, this has nothing to do with the current state of balance for Rangers. I’m just trying to understand why peoples’ opinions have changed.

This isn’t a thread about how OP/UP/Balanced Rangers are currently but rather I’m just confused by the fairly sudden shift in the community’s attitude toward Rangers. I have a few questions about the class that I’d love to get some insight on from people who play the class extensively (I have an 80 Ranger but she’s just an alt).

1. Why is Healing Power such a highly desired stat on Rangers (at least for Condition builds from what I can tell)? I do understand that Rangers, and especially Conditions, are more about DPS than Burst so you and your pet need to be able to stay alive long enough to deal damage. Whats confusing to me is that it doesn’t seem like Rangers heal frequently enough and their ratio’s aren’t anything special..

- 1:1 on Healing Spring + .13:1 on Regeneration
- .12:1 on Troll Unguent
- .25:1 on Signet of the Wild for pet
- .06:1 on Signet of the Wild for you

For example, Guardians heal much more frequently and have similar/better ratio’s yet many people see it as a sub-par stat (regardless of whether it is or not).

2. Why do people think Trap/Condition Rangers are so strong in PvP (sPvP specifically)? I know that Traps were seen as the class’ most viable utility skills, outside of a few Signets and Survival skills, but I didn’t think they could give Rangers burst rivaling that of Shatter Mesmers, BS Thieves, and 100b Warriors (which is what some say).

3. Why is Torch seen as such a strong offhand weapon? I understand that it’s only used by Condition builds, Burning is the strongest damaging Condition in the game, and it gives you a Fire field but I’m just not convinced. It just feels like Warhorn would be more useful because it’s easy for someone with less Condition Damage to overwrite your Burning. Maybe my confusion about this is just because I primarily play a Guardian? I probably undervalue Burning because it’s our only damaging Condition and as a result building Condition Damage is unreliable at best for us.

4. Why are “non-scaling” pets suddenly seen as such a strength of Rangers? Specifically, I guess this means a pet’s stats don’t scale with the Ranger’s stats. Is the problem that you can build full Condition Damage and just take a pet with high Power/Precision to add big crits/burst to your build? Does Master’s Bond relate to this at all or is that still seen as a buggy/bad trait?

I don’t play my Ranger as much as I’d like (I love Guardian too much >.<) so I’m a bit out of the loop but I still want to keep up with all the classes I have. I’ve been noticing Rangers a lot more in sPvP too so I want to really know what I’m up against.

Thanks. :D

Arheundel.6451:

Somoe.3621:

Arheundel.6451:

Somoe.3621:

CnaeusDane.2938:

I roll as a guard and everyone QQ’s bout my build till they fight an ele. If I want to be a bunker like an ele is I have almost no damage. Ele gets all the boons and abilities of a guardian bunker with damage. I don’t even bother fighting eles anymore if I can help it because they all run an Auramancer build.

At least guards have weaknesses, like ranged fighting, overwhelming us with conditions, and catching us with burst damage if we’re on cd. Do ele’s even have cds?

So many times this…

Bunker Guardians actually have to sacrifice a huge amount of damage potential and already lackluster mobility to become tanky. Bunker Elementalists sacrifice almost no damage and absolutely no mobility yet they’re allowed to become as tanky as a Guardian. The only thing bunker Guardians have over bunker Elementalists is superior area control with Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Sanctuary, and Shield of Absorption but all of these are buggy and hard countered by Stability.

I really hope Anet doesn’t nerf all Boon stacking just because it’s ridiculous on Elementalists. Guardians are supposed to be the most Boon oriented, anti-condition class but right now it’s actually D/D Ele’s.

EDIT: Also, just because Ele’s have a high skill CEILING that doesn’t mean they have a high skill FLOOR. D/D Ele is extremely forgiving, you can literally just run in circles spamming attunements and do well.

Pls make an ele, use fire and earth traits ( so forget about bunker build) then go and spamm attunement while running in circle.
My bet: you last 5s..guaranteed!

By the way even playing bunker, unless you know what you’re doing you’ll get totalized, pls come I’ll use a staff and you take fire/earth build try to survive while spamm attunement and run in circle…after all D/D is extremely forgiving..

Chances are..you won’t even answer ,but if you do I’m ready to record the fight and post it, we can then show people how well you do while you spamm attunements and run in circle

So your argument is “if you don’t use the OP build you wont be OP”, really? My comment was about BUNKERS, what you said is completely irrelevant.

It’s funny how people try to pat themselves on the back for playing an Elementalist.

In your post there is no mention of bunker D/D!
You have stated that D/D on its own it’s forgiving, therefore I have invited you to prove that!

Furthermore in my book if something is OP, then it’s OP regardless of the build used, anybody should be able to make an ele, take any trait or amulet, go in and “perform” like the 0/10/0/30/30 users.

pls answer logic with logic no otherwise, stick to your words and don’t change the meaning when it’s convenient to you

EDIT: Also, just because Ele’s have a high skill CEILING that doesn’t mean they have a high skill FLOOR. D/D Ele is extremely forgiving, you can literally just run in circles spamming attunements and do well.

So now stick to you words, make an ele, take any trait and post a video!
LIke this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTSlULPN768&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7&index=20

And if you think to know what OP is…check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7

Go on , make an ele go HOM take any random trait , take D/D and go and show us this FORGIVING gameplay!

If you can’t see that I was talking about bunkers then that’s not my problem.

Arheundel.6451:

Somoe.3621:

CnaeusDane.2938:

I roll as a guard and everyone QQ’s bout my build till they fight an ele. If I want to be a bunker like an ele is I have almost no damage. Ele gets all the boons and abilities of a guardian bunker with damage. I don’t even bother fighting eles anymore if I can help it because they all run an Auramancer build.

At least guards have weaknesses, like ranged fighting, overwhelming us with conditions, and catching us with burst damage if we’re on cd. Do ele’s even have cds?

So many times this…

Bunker Guardians actually have to sacrifice a huge amount of damage potential and already lackluster mobility to become tanky. Bunker Elementalists sacrifice almost no damage and absolutely no mobility yet they’re allowed to become as tanky as a Guardian. The only thing bunker Guardians have over bunker Elementalists is superior area control with Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Sanctuary, and Shield of Absorption but all of these are buggy and hard countered by Stability.

I really hope Anet doesn’t nerf all Boon stacking just because it’s ridiculous on Elementalists. Guardians are supposed to be the most Boon oriented, anti-condition class but right now it’s actually D/D Ele’s.

EDIT: Also, just because Ele’s have a high skill CEILING that doesn’t mean they have a high skill FLOOR. D/D Ele is extremely forgiving, you can literally just run in circles spamming attunements and do well.

Pls make an ele, use fire and earth traits ( so forget about bunker build) then go and spamm attunement while running in circle.
My bet: you last 5s..guaranteed!

By the way even playing bunker, unless you know what you’re doing you’ll get totalized, pls come I’ll use a staff and you take fire/earth build try to survive while spamm attunement and run in circle…after all D/D is extremely forgiving..

Chances are..you won’t even answer ,but if you do I’m ready to record the fight and post it, we can then show people how well you do while you spamm attunements and run in circle

So your argument is “if you don’t use the OP build you wont be OP”, really? My comment was about BUNKERS, what you said is completely irrelevant.

It’s funny how people try to pat themselves on the back for playing an Elementalist.

CnaeusDane.2938:

I roll as a guard and everyone QQ’s bout my build till they fight an ele. If I want to be a bunker like an ele is I have almost no damage. Ele gets all the boons and abilities of a guardian bunker with damage. I don’t even bother fighting eles anymore if I can help it because they all run an Auramancer build.

At least guards have weaknesses, like ranged fighting, overwhelming us with conditions, and catching us with burst damage if we’re on cd. Do ele’s even have cds?

So many times this…

Bunker Guardians actually have to sacrifice a huge amount of damage potential and already lackluster mobility to become tanky. Bunker Elementalists sacrifice almost no damage and absolutely no mobility yet they’re allowed to become as tanky as a Guardian. The only thing bunker Guardians have over bunker Elementalists is superior area control with Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Sanctuary, and Shield of Absorption but all of these are buggy and hard countered by Stability.

I really hope Anet doesn’t nerf all Boon stacking just because it’s ridiculous on Elementalists. Guardians are supposed to be the most Boon oriented, anti-condition class but right now it’s actually D/D Ele’s.

EDIT: Also, just because Ele’s have a high skill CEILING that doesn’t mean they have a high skill FLOOR. D/D Ele is extremely forgiving, you can literally just run in circles spamming attunements and do well.

I literally can’t count the number of times I’ve had someone AFK during a free tournament queue and never join the match causing it to be a 4v5. It’s nearly IMPOSSIBLE to win or even put up a fight when you’re down a teammate so it completely ruins the match for both teams. Even if you think free tournaments “don’t matter” because they’re not paid it doesn’t change the fact that griefing shouldn’t be tolerated anywhere in the game.

The biggest thing that’s keeping me from really getting into sPvP is how there’s a 4v5 about every 1-3 games. Why are we not allowed to report someone for leaving before or during tournament games when it blatantly ruins the game for the other 9 people involved? Right now the only reasons you can select for reporting are;

1. Botting
2. Inappropriate Character Name
3. Spamming
4. Verbal Abuse
5. Scamming
6. Selling Gold

The only one that’s even remotely fitting would be “Scamming” but it’s still not a very accurate description of their offense.

PS: On an unrelated note, why does chat suppression exist in sPvP? If I ONLY say variations of “2 keep” and “go to X” in /t chat I’ll get suppressed half-way through the match. Having all outgoing communication removed is INCREDIBLY detrimental in PvP where communication is such an important factor. PUGs should be allowed to extensively communicate with one another without the use of a third party voice chat program.

Caffynated.5713:

It’s kind of strange that so little has changed with ele builds since launch. Most other classes have seen new and interesting builds that change the class meta and ele is still being played air/water/arcana the way we have since August.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zZDtrhwZ_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2c47lYupA0

What classes have seen “new and interesting” builds that change the class’ meta? It certainly can’t be Guardians because we’re also pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build (0/0/30/30/10). Our offensive traits are terrible so we’re almost forced into using our defensive/utility traits, Honor (Vitality) and Valor (Toughness), similar to Elementalists with Arcana and Water. Evasive Arcana in Arcana is your “must-have” trait and for Guardians it’s Altruistic Healing in Valor.

D/D Ele’s are ridiculously powerful and flexible, I wouldn’t complain if I were you.

Rampage.7145:

Somoe.3621:

Rampage.7145:

Warrior DPs is not the problem only high damage skill is 100b, warriors are not even competitive on PVP due their lack of CC, heals, condition removal, and overall melee disagvantages compared to other classes like guardian or thiefs, D/D elemetalists only thing a warrior can do is add good damage using GS 100b only all the other weapons damage are actually pretty average. If only mobs had some kind of artificial inteligende to avoid skills like 100Blades u wouldn’t any warrior arround at all cuz they are outclassed by any other class allready. Heavy damage is the only thing they have left and it is only efective against kitten mobs or PVP noobs

How do Warriors lack CC and have more overall melee disadvantages than Guardians? Warriors have multiple gap-closers, multiple ways to keep enemies in melee range, and most of their CC doesn’t push enemies away from them (like it does for Guardians). Warriors also excel at burst damage so they’re able to jump into a fight, kill someone, take a few hits, and then back off when things get tough. Damage focused Guardians on the other hand are more about DPS and need to continuously be attacking their target. As a result, they have better healing and Condition removal that allows them to stay in fights long enough to kill someone.

Warriors aren’t very viable/popular (outside of pub-stomping with 100b) in PvP because of the meta, not because the class is poorly designed for melee or overshadowed. Warriors are the offensive/fighter heavy armor archetype while Guardians are the defensive/bunker heavy armor archetype. Currently the meta supports bunkers because all sPvP maps are conquest where you want a class that can hold points. As a result, you also want a quick, high burst damage class that is able to take the other team’s bunkers out. In this situation a fragile assassin (Thieves) is preferable to a tanky burst fighter (Warriors) because bunkers do less damage meaning you don’t need as much survivability.

Warriors are amazing in PvE/WvW and fine in sPvP.

U are very wrong i mean in theory u should be right but in real world u are wrong most warrior gap closing skills are buggy which makes them useless for PVP they are glitchy due latency issues probably but still useless for PVP overall, guaridan GS gap closer is by far better than anything warrior has. Only CC viable weapon warrior has is the hammer most likely which is good, just not as good due traits lacking of synergy, there is hardly a hammer build around there that can compete against guardian hammer or D/D ele for example. Guardian retaliation/heals/Cond removal just makes them unmatched for melee combat, warrior has a only good burst but when u think u go for a 100b combo against 2 enemies there is no chance u get out of that situation alive when in the other hand a thief can 2 vs 1 and stealth out killing one of them at least then warriors burst is totally outclassed again.
If u don’t play warrior please avoid this kind of threads i personally have 6, 80s thief, gurdian, warrior, ele, ranger, necro, and tbh they all outclasses the warrior in most situations, being dungeons the only exception where mobs stupidity just makes the warrior the best choice.
Guardian has many viable melee PVP weapons mace/shield mace/focus, scepter/shield, scepter focus, GS, hammer, Sword/shield, Sword/torch, Scepter/torch. Also for PVE, AOE retaliation guardians can probably add as much damage as a warrior+they can heal/support a bit.
So please i would understand an engenieer complaining about their rifle not being as effective as warrior one, but a guardian complaining about melee warrior is just nonsense.
My main character is the guardian btw i play active at PVP/PVE/WvW and i can tell u there is nothing my guardians does, the warrior can do better, raw damage may be, 3 secs burst but those things are pretty useless for most gw2 game scenarios.
U are very wrong about the meta in my opinion, if the meta was deathmatch warriors would be as outgunned as they are rifght now, capture the flag about the same… Only way warriors would be viable at PVP is the meta was killing a mob faster than the other team. Warriors can only do well in PVE cuz of the mobs mechanics are just kitten and in WvW cuz 90% of the players are not PVPers, so they don’t even equip stun breakers, if u think warriors are awesome i dare u to lvl one and try go solo roam in WvW, then watch every single class out there taking u down 1 vs 1.
Damage means nothing in GW2 when u stop thinking like WoW players u will realize how bad the warrior really is.

Sigh, your post is completely wrong but I just don’t have the patience to try to explain everything to you.

Rampage.7145:

Warrior DPs is not the problem only high damage skill is 100b, warriors are not even competitive on PVP due their lack of CC, heals, condition removal, and overall melee disagvantages compared to other classes like guardian or thiefs, D/D elemetalists only thing a warrior can do is add good damage using GS 100b only all the other weapons damage are actually pretty average. If only mobs had some kind of artificial inteligende to avoid skills like 100Blades u wouldn’t any warrior arround at all cuz they are outclassed by any other class allready. Heavy damage is the only thing they have left and it is only efective against kitten mobs or PVP noobs

How do Warriors lack CC and have more overall melee disadvantages than Guardians? Warriors have multiple gap-closers, multiple ways to keep enemies in melee range, and most of their CC doesn’t push enemies away from them (like it does for Guardians). Warriors also excel at burst damage so they’re able to jump into a fight, kill someone, take a few hits, and then back off when things get tough. Damage focused Guardians on the other hand are more about DPS and need to continuously be attacking their target. As a result, they have better healing and Condition removal that allows them to stay in fights long enough to kill someone.

Warriors aren’t very viable/popular (outside of pub-stomping with 100b) in PvP because of the meta, not because the class is poorly designed for melee or overshadowed. Warriors are the offensive/fighter heavy armor archetype while Guardians are the defensive/bunker heavy armor archetype. Currently the meta supports bunkers because all sPvP maps are conquest where you want a class that can hold points. As a result, you also want a quick, high burst damage class that is able to take the other team’s bunkers out. In this situation a fragile assassin (Thieves) is preferable to a tanky burst fighter (Warriors) because bunkers do less damage meaning you don’t need as much survivability.

Warriors are amazing in PvE/WvW and fine in sPvP.

wintermute.4096:

Just be happy others can’t see your mf stat. Actually, I’d make the trade in a hearbeat.

This is irrelevant.

Magic Find is a VERY common stat, more so than +Karma or +Gold (from new infusions and/or food), and yet it’s still treated like a dirty little secret that you’re not allowed to get info on. There’s an empty space right beside Agony Resistance that would be perfect for showing your total % Magic Find.

I understand that Magic Find is technically not a “combat-stat” but it’s just as important (if you’re using a MF set) as stats like Power/Toughness/etc.

Note:
THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU DISLIKE MAGIC FIND, IF YOU POST PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Gathering is not profession based, so even if fishing would be implemented, there would be no new profession. Really only cooking needs fishes, if you stretch it, the oil could be used by some armorers and weapon crafting.

Artificer would be another obvious one, fish oil could be an ingredient for potions.

While I agree that the damage on the final boss in the Volcanic Fractal is a little excessive it’s not unbearably so if you know what to do. Granted, I’m only up to level 31 and play a Guardian (party healing and multiple ways to block/reflect projectiles means we really shine on this fight).

Some tips;

1. The boss inflicts Agony with a projectile ability so you can block, absorb, or reflect it and the pulsing AoE Burning that comes with it.

2. Always keep the boss in the middle of his platform because otherwise, depending on his target, he’ll be able to reach an NPC before you can break his shield.

3. EVERYONE needs to burn the boss’ shield down ASAP, this has top priority. If the boss is able to heal himself your party can quickly become overwhelmed by all the AoE damage.

4. Lava Elementals have projectile attacks so you can block, absorb, or reflect them. This is very important, especially at higher levels, because a majority of the encounter’s damage comes from the Lava Ele’s.

5. Once the boss’ shield is down kill all of the Lava Elementals before you go back to attacking the boss.

6. Unless you have multiple ways to block/absorb/reflect projectiles in an area it’s a good idea to have everyone spread out a little during phase 1 (no shield/no lava ele’s) to prevent the AoE Burning from whittling your health down.

7. If you do have multiple ways to block/absorb/reflect projectiles in an area it’s a good idea to stay close together to prevent Agony/Burning. You should also stack up during phase 2 (shield/lava ele’s) to protect everyone from the Lava Elementals.

8. Bring anything that blocks/absorbs/reflects projectiles or heals in an area.

9. The boss’ shield has a set number of charges and each time you deal direct damage to him it removes one of them, when all of the charges have been removed his shield will break. As a result, if you’re having trouble breaking his shield quickly enough you might want to switch to a faster weapon or one that deals damage in multiple, smaller hits.

10. Don’t bother trying to use melee weapons. If anyone gets too close to the boss he’ll use a PBAoE that can instantly down you (depending on difficulty) and the Lava Elementals have an Immobilize.

Peetee.9406:

Phantax.1369:

Bored with them… NO

Hell, Im not even interested in them. Havent seen one yet that I would consider wasting all that time, gold and effort for !
Other people want them great, Its nice we have that diversity, myself… nah !

This post is indirectly an answer to your problem.

The people that are willing to farm the components to build a legendary are the people that have the alpha ‘melee’ mindset, warrior, guardians, thiefs. That’s why you see the greatswords and incinerators everywhere.

Meanwhile the players that play the support ‘ranged’ roles get their game enjoyment from helping others and are not going to take the time to farm a legendary for themselves. That’s why you don’t see Meteorlogicus, The Minstrel, or Howler anywhere.

Guardians aren’t included in one of the “support” classes? Really…?

No offense, but you just seem a little bitter towards some of the more melee oriented (and popular) classes. People that enjoy helping others are no more likely to play Mesmer, Ranger, Elementalist, Necromancer or Engineer than they are Guardian or Warrior.

No one wants Meteorlogicus, The Minstrel, or Howler because the legendaries themselves are lackluster. You also overlooked that Guardians can equip Meteorlogicus and the Minstrel while Warriors can equip Howler.

Please get over yourself, you’re not holier-than-thou just because your class isn’t as popular as others.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

I was just curious and since I can’t find anything about it I thought I’d ask here. Is tomorrow’s (Jan 28) patch going to include the FotM update that fixes DC rejoining and makes grouping with players easier?

Also, how is the patch going to make grouping easier? I haven’t really found any information on that either so if someone could fill me in that would be fantastic.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/fractals-of-the-mists-dungeon-improvements/

Wreckdum.8367:

Downed state is terrible. It should just be removed from the game. (PvP only. It’s still useful in PvE.) People should be instantly dead. Increase the out of combat rez speed so if you actually clear an OBJ you can rez your dead AFTER the fight.

Would be the first step in realizing why no one plays sPvP.

Lol, no.

Downed state is a major game mechanic, get used to it or play a different game.

Khyras.8021:

Somoe.3621:

You don’t “HAVE” to buy Tickets in the gem store with real money, you can get them from;

- Daily PvP achievement
- Monthly PvP achievement
- PvP reward chests
- Winning at least one round in a Free Tournament
- Mystic Forge
- Buying Gems with in-game gold

I’m not saying Payed Tournaments are the best system to use but no one is forced into spending real-life money to do “top-tier” PvP.

Ticket system is a buy or grind type of thing. It should not be there, its a matter of principle not to have an entry fee to any game feature.Especially entry fee that can be bought for rl money.

I was addressing the people that are acting like Paid Tournaments are a “Pay 2 Play” (as in pay real-life money) system. Even if it’s grindy and needs to be improved upon that doesn’t change the fact that you can participate in it without spending money.

Rika.7249:

Arheundel.6451:

Rika.7249:

mjharrison.3209:

daydream.2938:

Thats my point about the nerf thief threads. thieves are annoying wvw, and hotjoin. I get that, but if u nerf em they would become underpoewred in proper tourny play.

then the design is broken, pure and simple.

Pretty much.

Arenanet believes thieves are effective at flanking and assisting through traps, while delivering massive single target burst.

Thieves can only do that one thing, massive single target burst.

I’d like to see some more dirt-fighting pirate style rather than being made of explosive paper.

So you could have a thief who can participate in a team fight and actually stay alive for a while, of course at the cost of damage.

Hmm…I believe you can already do that perfectly by equipping a soldier amulet ( like the “OP” bunkers) rather than a berseker amulet….

That will make you able to take a single blow more.

That won’t exactly make you stay alive.

I’m talking a trait, perhaps one that incorporates sword in mainhand, that reduces damage taken significantly. And sword, well, we all know sword damage is horrible anyway.

Our current and only role is: Jump in, backstab HSHSHS get out before you’re squished.

What I’d like is an option to have another role: The jump in, fight fight fight fight fight fight no need to leave cuz you die instantly fight fight fight.

So what you’re saying is that you want to play a Guardian or Warrior?

Thieves aren’t supposed to be able to trade blows for an extended period of time, the entire class is based around hit-and-run fighting.

- Massive single-target burst
- Massive mobility in and out of combat
- Can engage, disengage, and re-engage multiple times
- Can escape from nearly any encounter

All of these things are integral to the Thief’s identity and scream “hit-and-run assassin”.

What’s more ridiculous is that Ele’s can Mist Form stomp but Necro’s can’t Death Shroud stomp, even though it’s their class defining mechanic and doesn’t give complete invulnerability.

You don’t “HAVE” to buy Tickets in the gem store with real money, you can get them from;

- Daily PvP achievement
- Monthly PvP achievement
- PvP reward chests
- Winning at least one round in a Free Tournament
- Mystic Forge
- Buying Gems with in-game gold

I’m not saying Payed Tournaments are the best system to use but no one is forced into spending real-life money to do “top-tier” PvP.

I want to start trying out my Necromancer in sPvP but I don’t really know where to start; I’ve seen Scepter/Staff Condition builds, tanky MM builds, and Power stacking Dagger builds. I’ve played against these builds but I’m not sure if they’re all that effective though because usually when people talk about Necro’s in “PvP” on the forums they mean WvW and not sPvP/tPvP (Structured PvP and Team/Tournament PvP). So, what advice could yall give for building/playing a Necro in sPvP/tPvP?

Here’s a few general things I’m interested in, what are the most effective;
1. Builds
2. Utilities
3. Weapons
4. Stats
5. Play-styles

Thanks. :D

EDIT: Also, what classes do you have problems dealing with and which do you feel most effective against?

Consume Conditions is easily one of the strongest, if not the strongest, self-heal in the entire game and doesn’t need a buff. If you want it to be a Spectral skill just to give it “flavor” then its CD and/or heal would have to get nerfed to compensate.

Oldbugga.7029:

@Somoe

Those abilities you listed before do look impressive when viewed like that..a list.

Now try and work those into a viable build and you start tripping over all sorts of issues like lack of weapon/trait synergy, excessive cooldowns, pitifully short durations (fear anyone), broken mechanics and really lackluster damage (attrition comes at a cost).

I don’t think anyone is arguing we have don’t access to some great abilities but we are arguing that we cannot access enough of them to be competitive other than in a few niche areas….and many don’t like being painted into small corners.

Rennoko.5731:

When you pull data to show that we have access to more combo fields and finishers than other classes, and act like that is evidence we are “balanced”, everyone shakes their head. Because that was your implication. The OP says we have no fields and finishers, you state we have MORE than other classes. Ignoring how much more accessible the leap/field finishers are for those other classes.

If all you wanted to do was prove the OP wrong on that point you succeeded. But he isn’t wrong on the practical use/application of those fields/finishers. Coming into a post and making a comment like that is exactly the kind of thing to make a forum troll dev pat himself on the back for a job well done in class balance.

The point of the OP was we as a class are weak in that area, reguardless how many “options” the wiki says we have.

When did I ever act like my lists where evidence that Necromancers are “balanced”? Could you PLEASE stop putting words in my mouth? The entire point of my lists was to show that Necromancers have these abilities because the OP said that they didn’t, that’s LITERALLY IT. In no way did I imply “Necro’s are balanced, here’s a list of good skills that they have as proof”.

The OP used generalized statements to try and make Necromancers look worse off then they actually are so I proved them false. This does not mean I think Necro’s are balanced. For the love of god, how many times do I have to repeat myself? I’ve said this roughly 3-4 times already and I’m still getting the same replies. Apparently no one in this thread has any reading comprehension, I give up.

In my experience
- Bunker Ele’s are roughly as tanky as Bunker Guards
- Bunker Ele’s have MUCH more mobility, AoE, and burst than Bunker Guards
- Bunker Ele’s have MUCH more condition damage (which ignores Toughness, so it’s good against other bunkers) than Bunker Guards
- Bunker Ele’s have arguably more CC and condition removal than Bunker Guards

The only thing Bunker Guards seem to have over Bunker Ele’s currently is superior area control (knock-backs and Wards).

Rennoko.5731:

Pointing out that necros have them presumes they are readily or somewhat available. Being tied directly to one weapon specific skill is not readily available. Tied to say two or all weapons (like potentially bleed and poison) would be readily available. Technically correct may be the best kind of correct, but come on.

Have you actually read anything I’ve posted?

Pointing out that Necromancers have these abilities presumes they’re available to the class, period. It doesn’t matter how readily accessible or balanced they are, the class still has them. This is ALL I was trying to point out in my posts.

Rennoko.5731:

And that is actually an excellent argument, becuase I cannot take utilities for fear. Does a mesmer have to use any specific weapon to get confusion and daze? No. Does it have to take staff to get burn? Nope, it can take torch. Does it need sceptor for block? Nope, has sword offhand for that too. A utility AND a weapon skill that gives a blink effect, sure! 4 different ways to go into stealth? Okay! All of that available in a multitude of trait lines and weapons sets. Are you following me here at all?

I’m not even going to bother with this.

Rennoko.5731:

If all the necro problems were REALLY in the minds of the forum community, which is a very small subset of the population, necro would be a more well represented class in wvw/pve/pvp.

I get that you are countering intense forum negativity here, but you need to be realistic about the prospects of how limited our toolkit is under normal circumstances. And for the third time this forum topic I will point out that there is a REASON why the class is significantly under-played. Do you have a good reason for that? (L2P isn’t the answer btw)

- I never said or implied that Necromancers were well represented in WvW/PvE/PvP
- I never said or implied that Necromancers didn’t have limited toolkits.
- I never said or implied that Necromancers aren’t underplayed.
- I never said or implied that I have a “good reason” for why Necromancers are underplayed.

Just because I’m not wallowing in self-pity, like the rest of this forum apparently is, that doesn’t mean I think Necromancer’s are fine.

Rennoko.5731:

To be honest, calling spectral wall and the boon flipping skills (Corruption well and Corruption Boon) access to confusion and burning is really a stretch. If your target doesn’t use those boons, or have access to them, you cannot cause burning, and the chances of successfully stacking even one confusion on the target is 20%, through spectral wall, with staff 1. That would be the very definition of exceptionally situational.

I get that people are technically correct in saying that necros can apply those effects, but I don’t think its accurate to say we have access to them under any normal circumstances.

Also we do not have access to multiple fears, unless you run staff or trait for reapers protection. If you choose to play without staff you get one fear on a 20 second cooldown that can last a max of 2 seconds with 100% duration. 100% duration requires a pretty big sacrifice in food/runes/traits, and is not practical in spvp.

Don’t get caught doing the opposite of the OP and taking only the best possible scenario for every build and calling it the “norm”.

I never called using these skills in every/any build “the norm”, I’m simply pointing out that Necromancers do in fact have them. Also, “we don’t have access to multiple fears if we don’t take multiple fears” isn’t a very good argument.

Ganzo.5079:

Somoe.3621:

Symbol of Fury/Glory/Reckoning/Divinity:

- Inscribe a mystic symbol onto the target area, damaging foes and granting Fury to allies.

I know people want one with Chill/Cripple but Symbols, by design, are supposed to provide some benefit to allies so I don’t see that working. Fury is a good fit in my opinion because it’s one of the more difficult Boons for Guardians to apply and it goes with Scepter’s theme of being a damage focused weapon.

Thoughts?

I agree, smite have to be a simbol, i really dont know why its not.

I know people want one with Chill/Cripple but Symbols, by design, are supposed to provide some benefit to allies so I don’t see that working

Simply because guardian have a problem, and its the lack of ranged attack and mobility, when all the other classes have theese 2 bonus. now to be competitive we have 2 choices,

1)speed up guardians and give them a good ranged option (and this is against the class ideology)
2)slow the enemy to keep him on melee range.

I know why people want it but a Symbol that does damage to foes and applies Chill/Cripple to them wouldn’t be a Symbol. It would be better if, for example, we had a trait or something that caused Symbols to inflict Chill/Cripple when they pulse.