I applaud closing the exploit, but it really is a terrible implementation of a fix. At the very least, the grubs need to not be popping error messages, that’s just embarrassing.
However if i played for 2 months consistently i would like to have something to show for it.
1. Why? Didn’t you have, you know, the enjoyment of competing in an activity you ostensibly enjoy to show for it?
2. If you don’t enjoy the competition, how would “getting something to show for it” that would improve your ability to participate in that competition make it more enjoyable?
3. Do you think you can allow a subset of the population to get progressively better than everyone else through time investment without harming the quality and fairness of the competition? Would you happily sacrifice a fair and balanced contest so you personally can kill people 10% faster? Do you think that’s HEALTHY for the game?
You’re boiling down what I said into “watch your avatar’s numbers go up”. I wouldn’t play that game. If you over-simplify, sure it’ll sound dumb. I can simplify online gaming down to twiddling bits in a computer for hours at a time, and that sounds even more dumb!
I’m not really over simplifying though, that IS your argument. Does it sound less romantic when phrased that way? Certainly. Fine, we’ll change it to this. Your argument is that games are no fun without perpetual progression.
We both know that what makes something fun cannot be easily boiled down to one thing. Yes, numbers went up in DAoC. But with that you also got other permanent abilities. You could feel yourself getting stronger. You could change the way you play the game by adding a new ability into your repertoire. This and many other things all contributed to a feeling of character progression. It gave a permanence and a reason to keep going out over and over again.
Yes, you experienced perpetual progression. You could hit harder, live longer, and were all around better. Man, did I enjoy trying to burn down Heroes with 5000HP and capped magic resistance, only to have them pop the complete heal they bought with their RPs. What fun! What an even playing field! It’s a poisonous enough concept in PvE, where it just shackles you to a treadmill upon which you can watch your goals ever remain elusively just out of reach. In PvP it is positively game breaking. It absolutely decimates the concept of fair competition, stratifies your population into haves and have nots, and makes PvP a completely miserable experience for any new player.
The problem with your analogy of other sports and competitions is that when you win, it IS permanent, and there is a very real, tangible sense of accomplishment. If the Cubs win the World Series in 2013, they will forever have won the World Series in 2013. There are dozens of ways that that sense of accomplishment could be diminished, say if the World Series were held weekly… And that’s the problem with winning being the reward in MMO’s. Because winning as a sense of accomplishment has been diminished. That’s precisely why something else, character progression for example, is needed to fill in the gap.
If my server wins this week’s competition, that’s permanent too. When the Canucks beat the Red Wings, that win is permanent, but it doesn’t mean we won’t be playing the Red Wings again in a few weeks. In fact, sports teams play several games a week. Some, like baseball, can play multiple games a DAY. Somehow, people still care about the outcomes. Imagine that.
There is absolutely nothing that needs to “fill in the gap”, once you’ve created a fair and balanced competition (GW2 has a ways to go in this regard, but the foundation is there). You play the game because you enjoy the game, and your reward is winning or doing well. If you do NOT enjoy playing the game, I do not understand in the slightest how getting rewards that help you to perform better while playing a game you do not enjoy is any kind of desirable outcome.
I invite you to consider this. Sports in general, and games in general, have always been crafted around the concept of fair competition. Whether your game is football, chess, Starcraft, etc, the goal is to let your personal skill decide the outcome, not the fact that you’ve been playing for 5000 hours and your numbers are higher. These games and sports are enjoyed by millions if not billions of people world wide. Progression based MMOs have never enjoyed an audience larger than 12 million people, and even in that one game the question of the value of perpetual progression mechanics was extremely controversial. If I were a business owner, I know which audience I would court. As a person who loves GAMES, I know which way I want them to go.
But without it, there’s no sense of accomplishment.
Horsecrap. I have no idea exactly when it was that this hilarious delusion began that the only way to experience a “sense of accomplishment” in a game was to watch your avatars numbers go up, but it’s like everyone’s IQ dropped 50 points overnight.
Somehow we have a world FULL of games and sports and competitive activities in which your sense of accomplishment and reward comes through winning or excelling, and yet we have this subsect of MMO players who continue to insist that the only meaningful form of reward is numbers. Numbers go up, or GTFO, they insist.
And both of you old school gamers can stop waxing poetic about a better time. I’ve been gaming since 1982. DAoC was an amazing game, but it was also an unbalanced nightmare of cheesing and exploits.
Impromptu alliances are part of a 3 faction system. You’re MEANT to team up and beat down a front runner. That’s the system working as intended.
What’s the alternative? Server 1 surges out to a huge lead, and server 2 and 3 stand by and clap politely? Why anyone is complaining about this is beyond me.
Why are you making the assumption that I didn’t already consider this route? Unfortunately, it’s bad advice because the amount of money I can earn through standard play is not even remotely close to being enough to cover the cost of buying the materials on the trade post. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
I must be stretching my imagination to crazy degrees, because I’m closing in on full crafted exotics and I bought almost all my materials off the auction house with money I made just tooling around doing random stuff.
“Not by any stretch of the imagination”. Hyperbole for the win.
Perpetual grub farming was an exploit.
TLDR – Grub farming bad.
OP kept giants alive to kill endless waves of grubs.
Complains that in the absence of this, the game is now too grindy.
In related news, I have a headache.
No idea. It worked at 5:00 AM PT this morning on Tarnished Coast. Best I can offer you. Will it break again? Given their track record I will pessimistically say “oh, probably”.
I never played DAoC so I am not familiar with the concept. Kinda like a jumping puzzle but only for the winning team?
Sounds cool though could backfire since some servers like Kaineng would never get to do the dungeon
It was just a huge, deep dungeon full of bosses and loot. It was a very appealing carrot to be chased and added an extra layer of incentive for succeeding in RvR combat. Of course, once seized, a substantial portion of players disappeared inside it, and the other sides would rally in their absence, and then THEY would seize Darkness Falls, and flood inside, and fight with/chase out the side holding it, and around and around it goes.
It was like a population siphon whenever one side started aggressively pulling ahead. Along with three factions, it functioned as a great equalizer in RvR. And it was just a neat dungeon too.
If you guys want DAoC, go play DAoC. Seems simple enough…?
Unfortunately, while an enthusiast for, say, Classic Everquest could still play that game and get 80-90% of the experience they remember, DAoC has aged well past the point of relevance. Massive scale PvP combat requires a massive population.
Arena Net has also been very up front about naming DAoC as a major inspiration for WvWvW, so comparisons between the two games have been invited.
Darkness Falls.
Darkness Falls.
The solution is Darkness Falls.
Winning in WvWvW opens a PvE mega dungeon for the winning side. It siphons away X% of the winning side’s players, opening the door for the losing side to rally and start aggressively clawing back what was lost.
Worked beautifully in DAoC.
I’m 100% for cosmetic ranks and rewards for participation in WvWvW. The more the better. Offer a total bonanza of cosmetic riches to the dedicated WvWvW player.
I’m 100% against offering non-cosmetic rewards for participation in WvWvW, like new powers or extra amazing gear. The moment you allow a portion of your PvP player base to receive ever escalating power for their time investment is the moment you break your game irrevocably. I assure you that while the MMO population does in fact contain a community of progression-at-all-costs fanatics, the population of “fair competition” enthusiasts most likely outnumber them 10-1. And while I do NOT have a source for that “statistic”, I’m willing to bet that it’s probably conservative.
The world is full of people who enjoy sports, as an example. If your baseball team wins a game, the reward for winning that game was winning the game. Your team does not level up, and get extra powerful bats that allow them to more easily win the next game.
I’m also a long time MMO player and big DAoC fan, and while I agree with some of these points, I disagree with at least one…strongly…and that’s the introduction of anything resembling RP abilities into GW2. Frankly, I hated them in DAoC as well. They made what was already an unbalanced gong show a million times worse. You end up stratifying your players into haves and have nots based on time investment, and the more punitive coming out for PvP becomes, the less you want to do it. No one enjoys being meat for wolves.
I do think some form of cosmetic/rank system would benefit the game tremendously for those people who like to feel like they’re earning SOMETHING for their time, but the moment the game introduces a power treadmill to PvP is the moment I put it down forever. I want the freedom to walk away from the game for a month and not feel like everyone has eclipsed me 5 times over during my absence. Perpetual incremental increases in character power have no place in a competitive PvP environment. The very idea of it is laughable, really, and worthy of the deepest scorn.
Crap like water combat does need some serious work, there’s no question, along with numerous other issues, most particularly player culling. WvWvW is far from perfect in its present incarnation, but it’s also the best large scale PvP we’ve seen since DAoC, and by a fair long shot too. It needs a little time to find its legs. DAoC was a MESS when it launched. I could spend all day detailing the innumerable broken elements and balance nightmares that plagued it.
The one thing I want to see GW2 adopt from DAoC’s PvP system is Darkness Falls. The sooner they can get a Darkness Falls approximate into the game, the better. It was a crucial element when it came to faction balancing, constantly piping a portion of the leader off the field and allowing underdog factions to rally.
1. Mobs aren’t really a problem, but I wouldn’t mind seeing them restricted more to their specific areas (centaur camp, Skritt village, spider grove, etc) and maybe send out substantial patrols from time to time to harass/capture nearby supply camps if their events are not dealt with. Random mobs like wolves and coyotes lingering around in fields are just a PITA.
2. Bots are obviously an issue in PvP and PvE, but I imagine they will get dealt with in due time.
3. Death penalty via repair cost is fine. It’s not significant, and it provides an extra incentive not to get killed, which adds a (small) bit of tension to the proceedings.
4. There really does need to be auto-loot. Constantly slamming the F key so I don’t miss a tiny sparkling loot bag in the middle of the metric crapload of explosions going off at any given moment in WvWvW is just a nuisance.
Is there anywhere we can get ACTUAL math on this? Like, properly parsed damage, proper attack speed times, etc, etc? I’m finding sweet fanny adam when I go looking for it, and all this “I knew a guy who totally did a test once”, or “roughly” or “more or less” anecdotal stuff is giving me a headache.
Alright, here’s my experience, for whatever it’s worth.
Spec is 20/25/10/0/15. I have most of the common traits like Eagle Eye, cooldown reduction on bows, Master’s Bond, Survival cooldown reduction, etc.
Wearing 4/6 Exotic and using an Exotic bow. Currently using a life steal sigil on it, but I’ve considered switching to Air for the lightning/burst. The rest is yellow (green accessories). Axe/Horn off-set. I think I’m around 3000 attack, 43% crit, somewhere around 50 extra crit damage. 1300-1400 toughness, around 1100 vitality. Bit glassy.
In PvE, my rapid fire hits for around 5K-8K altogether. Auto attack varies wildly depending on range. Most mobs are dead after 3/2 followed by the eagle, so I’m not really sitting there ticking “1” over and over like I would on a golem.
WvWvW is a bit screwy since you never know how someone is geared, but I’ve had auto attack hit for up to 3K before, and I’ve taken someone down in a single Rapid Fire. Barrage also does fairly significant damage both in PvE and WvWvW, I’m not sure where this business about Barrage being “weak” came from.
Those saying that Rapid Fire is too slow to really bring someone down at range are correct, most people will move out of the channel before it finishes. I find QZ is more or less necessary if you really want to burn someone down and not just scare them off a wall. QZ and RF go beautifully together, it’s probably the best burst a Ranger has, albeit on a long cool-down.
For general zerg vs zerg skirmishing (90% of WvWvW) or sieges, I would prefer Longbow for range + Barrage. For general solo play or co-op with my GF, roaming around killing singles or small groups of enemies, I’d prefer Longbow as well, just for burst and AoE. For veterans or champions, if I was in a pair or a very small group, I’d prefer the Shortbow…if you can’t burst them dead quickly with a Longbow the Shortbow will start to overtake it through conditions and through the superior auto attack. If I was in small team PvP or 1v1 PvP where I couldn’t maintain any kind of reliable range and I needed to be extremely mobile, I’d prefer Shortbow as well. For massive scale PvE like event bosses with 10+ people in attendance, I’d prefer Longbow, due to bleed cap/condition stacking issues and since mobility is not a concern.
If I was soloing golems in the Mists and all I cared about was raw numbers completely devoid of any context whatsoever I’d prefer Shortbow and come to the forums to talk about how it was OMGBBQ better in all situations.
indelibleYou address the thread like the majority are of your perspective. They aren’t. Feel free to count posts.
Holy hell this is pathetic. The frustrating thing about this is that there is a conversation to be had here about genre stagnation and whether or not GW2 has done enough to push things forward (clearly your perspective is that they have not). As an evolutionary iteration on the “classic” MMORPG formula, I find it quite compelling, but I can certainly see why someone who had been hankering for a true revolution would be dismayed to find much familiar about GW2.
This response though…the one I’ve quoted…makes me want to bang my head on a brick wall. Or possibly bang your head on a brick wall, I haven’t decided. You seem like a smart guy, so you can’t POSSIBLY be this stupid.
You have what…maybe 20-30 unique people responding to this thread? It’s got a negative title and a long lead in, so it’s going to attract two kinds of people…those who are looking to agree with you, and those who are looking to be contrary and debate you. Of those people, you find that a healthy number endorse your post, and suddenly you’re all “COUNT THE POSTS I HAVE A FOLLOWING”. Yeah, that’s a killer self-selecting statistical sample you’ve gathered. If you can get it up to 50, you’ll have 0.000025% of the player-base weighing in. Heady stuff.
If you want to rush off and embrace the fallacy of appeal to popularity, you first have to demonstrate popularity. Getting a little pool of people to clap your back in the echo chamber for mutinous children that is an MMO forum is hardly noteworthy. This post of yours is embarrassing.
As for your OP, I’d be inclined to agree with you that GW2 is not really particularly trailblazing, certainly not for anyone who wants a sandbox, or something new entirely. But you’ve soaked your points in so much maudlin hyperbole I’m afraid I can’t quite get past the eye rolling stage.
Oh god you guys. What a bunch of crybabies.
1. People playing off hours is part of a 24/7 battleground.
2. Two factions teaming up against a 3rd because they perceive them to be a bigger threat is part of three faction PvP.
I was in Orr for hours last night, Cursed Shore, did many events, never had diminishing returns.
It would help if you gave us more data. Like which events you were doing, in what order, over what period of time, etc, etc.
Like, are you roaming all over the zone, doing events as you come across them? Or are you camping the penitent path, doing the same 1-2 events over and over and over?
Not a judgment, but it would be good to know what exactly it is you’re doing.
There’s really no reason NOT to make them repeatable. If people enjoy them, let them repeat them. Some of them are pretty astoundingly dull, but some are quite clever and worth repeating.
They only give a small amount of XP/Gold anyway. Make them a daily repeatable and it might encourage people to spread out a bit more.
Agreed, Saga. The problem with GW2’s dungeons is not gating. The problem with GW2’s dungeons is that they’re not very good. And before anyone comes for my throat, I love the game. I hate the dungeons.
Nobody wants to play for 3 hours then realize that the effort was for nothing when the game throws you 4 karma. If you want to bury your head in the sand and continue losing karma that you would have otherwise been legitimately given, be my guest.
As for me, I’ll put the game down for now (or do other non-gathering tasks) and wait for Anet to give info on the anti-farming system before I invest time into the game.
Being a tad excitable/hostile, are we? I wasn’t exactly tearing into you. Don’t get your jimmies rustled.
I will say, though, that I’ve never really considered the time I’ve spent playing video games “effort” in any meaningful sense.
This clearly seems to be a bug, and hopefully they straighten it out sooner rather than later. We can add it to the list of all the other bugs we’re hoping that about.
yeah.. respect bro. im casual too… im only level 32.
i just like to elaborate about endgame content for the
fascinating hardcore fans.
i didnt mean “casual disrespect” at all. im sorry if it
came out like that.
It did a little, but I checked your thread to see what you were about for slapping your face.
Tradewind is more of a shoot first kind of guy.
Can I get a summary of your plans for your next 4 weeks? This is gripping stuff.
“Tad” glitchy? :S
I just wish a dev would come and post something about it in the Dynamic Events subforum. Not hearing a peep about this issue is making people worried.
I’m not sure what it is about human psychology that causes them to reach conclusions faster given an absence of information, but there you have it.
We need Darkness Falls to make it as good as DAoC’s RvR.
Fingers crossed.
Hell I work 8 hours a day. If I played a game 6 hours a day that would total to 14 hours, leaving me only 6 hours to sleep.
I’m guessing you don’t work as a math teacher. =P
And before anyone else says this: I did not sped through content or rushed it in any ways. I played about 6 hours daily which I think is comparatively short to the average MMO player.
Okay, no…that’s a lot. I don’t have an issue with it, but that’s a LOT. And by the way, the game has been out for about 26 days. 26 × 6 is about 150 hours. You’re missing 100 hours somewhere.
Thoughts? Insights? Suggestions? I am all ears…
There really isn’t a solution for burnout/meeting all your goals. I’ve had this discussion a few times on these (and other) MMO forums over the last several months, trying to push back this pervasive mentality that an MMO is a bottomless barrel of entertainment you can pour hundreds and thousands of hours into and never get bored and never run out of things you want to do.
Just take a break man. If your 250 hours is an accurate metric, you have been averaging 10 hours a day since the game launched. That’s like…66% of your waking hours, dedicated to a launch MMO. I’d probably be sick of it too. I can’t think of anything offhand I could put that much time into and NOT need a break.
I played for 3-4 hours last night, probably did a good 15-20 events. Some of which, most particularly camp defense, were repeated 2-3 times. This is in Malchor’s Leap, at level 80. Killed nothing but Risen the entire time. Due to spawn density in some areas, I killed a LOT of Risen of the same kind in a tiny area during some stretches.
Zero diminishing returns noted.
Hasn’t this already been covered though? I thought the random incidences of diminishing returns was due to a bug? Or did I misread that?
I love seeing that people are still generally decent. They’ll help you kill a monster and revive you if you’re down. I pass the good will forward and someone else does the same. Lovely concept <3
I’ve noticed this too. By-product of reduced competition for mob tagging and nodes. In previous games, if someone was in my area, and that person died, my usual reaction was “Thank goodness!”. Now, I speed to their side. I’m always getting picked up and dusted off by random strangers. It’s warm and fuzzy.
If a plush Quaggan goes on sale, I will purchase one immediately. Especially if it says “HOO” when you squeeze it.
cool thanks.
I got some xp boosters, but I been saving them, for what I don’t know =)
I am half way to 15, so maybe i will just go into a killing spree in some other lower level – tho I will be scaled down, should be fast.
Yeah, I got 100% map completion in Queensdale and Divinity’s Reach. I did do some crafting, with the mats that I had. But, don’t really have much money either, so can’t really buy too much =)
I should try cooking.
Thanks for the replies.
Those XP boosters are best used at lower levels, you’ll be the most likely to notice the (very small) boost you get from them then. That is also the level range where you’re most likely to find yourself lapsing behind the content in level, especially if you’ve not been studiously gathering/crafting or mapping out cities.
Once you get around level 30 the world starts opening up more, you get more options, and you’re more likely to find yourself outpacing the content instead of falling behind it. I hit level 80 with 35% world completion.
I highly recommend cooking as an entertaining trade skill, especially if you have the fortitude to avoid looking at a guide online and treat the discovery as…discovery. I had more fun with cooking in GW2 than I’ve ever had with crafting in an MMO before. And you can do it from the bank now, which handily eliminates the one highly toxic element of cooking I hated.
Gamers used to be one group. People who loved games, no matter what they were. Now there is so many variants on the term, I can’t even name half of them. Companies have pandered to this and made watered down movies on steroids that offer little other than a mildly enjoyable picturebook.
This as well as many other recent MMo’s are torn about by multiple sections of the gamer dichotomy because they simply don’t know what they want. They just want more of it, and yesterday.
The only true gamer is a gamer who respects the games.
Oh they did not. I’ve been gaming since 1982. We might have been a little less histrionic in our criticism, but A: I was 7 years old, and B: we didn’t have the internet, which is and has always been an echo chamber for idiots. People can love games, but love them for ENTIRELY different reasons. You can’t make a game that appeals to “gamers” because there is no “gamers” to appeal to. I identify as a gamer, but I don’t like some games or some genres. I don’t care for certain modes of play. That doesn’t mean I need to be an jerk about them online, but I think it is to the benefit of developers to try and be inclusive, especially in situations where being inclusive is EASY. Like making the “easy mode” of your dungeon actually easy. That’s a good place to start.
- How can we appeal to gamers?
“Gamers” are not, and have never been, a unified demographic. GW2 is not a particularly hard or brutal game, but it is a change from the usual formula, and it does need a difficulty curve with a gentle slope. We HAVE that in the PvE. We do NOT have that in dungeons. I weep for the unprepared jostling into AC thinking it is going to be in any way reflective of the content they’ve seen up to that point in time. Suddenly running into a wall is just a poorly developed difficulty curve.
Good suggestions, but I disagree with the dungeon difficulty aspect. I think they really nailed it in terms of toughness, just not reward.
The current toughness tiering doesn’t make a lot of sense. Do I find story mode too hard? No. Do I think story mode is going to be too hard for a substantial cross section of people? Yes. The “toughness” needs to be concentrated in the optional explorable mode. You should NEVER lock any story behind really difficult mechanics, be they raids, or just nut busting dungeons.
And I’m not terribly thrilled, if I’m being honest, with the way the toughness is currently implemented, but that may just be a learning curve/issue with me, so I’m hesitant to go too deep on that issue until I’ve had more time in dungeons and a chance to let my impressions percolate.
Shot in the dark: You’ve never developed and/or bugfixed have you? Whether in terms of hardware, software, etc?
Of course I haven’t.
It is so much more difficult than people who have never attempted it realize. I wish all the people saying “LOL BUGGED CONTENT GG AWFUL DEV TEAM ROFLROFLROFL” (not you, just a generalization about stupid people) would go create something with thousands of different pieces of content (in terms of this game, DE’s, hearts, skill points) release it to a couple of million people, and see how much of it wasn’t actually broken.
Things that get released to the public, even with a plethora of alpha and beta testing, content testing, etc. are going to be riddled with bugs. That’s how it goes. Some developers take months and months (sometimes more like years) to fix the bugs. ANet is actively fixing them quite quickly in comparison.
That’s FINE, but as a guy who just plays the games, I can see where there is going to be a low patience threshold for this. At the very least, I’d like them to not cheerfully announce that X has been fixed, only to log in and find X still broken.
It has a cumulatively demoralizing effect, when you bump from broken item to broken item. It makes the GAME feel broken. Now, obviously the game is not “broken” in any meaningful sense, much of it works and works well. It just FEELS that way when you hit 3-4 broken events in a row. Which is, lamentably, not difficult to do in the higher level zones.
I’m actually a pretty patient guy. I’m still playing and still having a good time, and I’m not rending my garments nor pulling out great handfuls of hair. But I am starting to roll my eyes when another round of broken events are announced as fixed and immediately available evidence demonstrates that they are not.
(edited by SpectacularYak.6518)
Yak, I hate the game in it’s current state, but your posts/comments are always a pleasure.
Event scaling is truly bad atm (let’s call them Binary DEs). 1 min you’re getting 1 hit KO’d, the next you might as well not be there, with what seems like little in between. Bosses are especially prone to this.
I really enjoy events in the 2-5 man range. My GF and I duo a lot of events, and aside from the occasional tedium of wearing down a champion with a literally enormous HP bar, a good time is usually had. I was also a fan of public questing in WAR, so this is a kind of event design that really appeals to me. I’m ALRIGHT with how it is now, but I think it could be MUCH, MUCH better by moving some numbers around on the back end.
They’ve said they’re working on all of these except darkness falls.
One of the game’s designers (I forget who) was one of the designers of Darkness Falls. He spoke about it briefly during an interview. They’re certainly aware of it, as a concept.
Just the simple fact that you somehow think they’re not working on fixing bugs is mind-boggling to me.
I certainly do think they’re working on it, but they’re doing a pretty lousy job actually fixing them. They’re fixed! They’re broken again! They’re fixed! They’re broken again!
Disillusioned fans of the treadmill aside, this is probably the one thing that has the most potential to mar an otherwise excellent game. There is a COMICAL amount of broken content in later zones.
Disclaimers:
1. Really, really enjoy the game.
2. All opinions expressed herein are just that.
3. Pancakes are delicious.
1. FIX THE BUGS FOR HEAVENS SAKE
Most particularly the PLETHORA of post 50 broken events, stuck skill points, and glitchy story missions. I’m sympathetic to the fact that there’s a lot of content here, and some bugs are to be expected, but it really does get a little ridiculous in the later zones. It takes a lot of the luster off the beautiful world design when you’re bumping into broken event after broken event. “Oh, this one’s broken. Well, let’s try this other one, that sounds ne…oh, it’s broken too, I guess. Huh.” The worst part of all this is we keep getting patch notes that a bunch of broken events are fixed, and those same events are broken again within hours. There are really only so many mulligans you get on this.
2. DARKNESS FALLS
There’s been no secret made of the fact that DAoC was a major inspiration for your WvWvW, but you left out a key element. A PvE super-dungeon that unlocks for a dominating side is essential. It pipes out some of the population of the leader, allowing underdogs to rally and gain some headway. It also adds a further objective to WvWvW, making the entire exercise more compelling. This is obviously a big thing to ask for if it’s done right, but I think it’s absolutely necessary for the long term health of WvWvW. Speaking of dungeons…
3. SORT OUT YOUR DUNGEONS!
Dungeons…not your strong suit. I think there’s some raw materials there, but they’re all over the place. They’re too hard for the casual folks, and too scrambly (and not stocked with enough loots) for the hardcore folks. The repetition required for the cosmetic armor sets is punitive. It seems as though the nicest thing anyone really says about the dungeons is “I don’t like dungeons anyway so I just avoid them!”. I’m afraid the most constructive thing I can offer in this respect is that what you’ve got isn’t particularly working.
4. EVENT SCALING NEEDS WORK
One of the most common complaints about dynamic events is that they’re “too zergy”. “All I do is spam my AoE”, people complain, and there’s some truth to it. Once a certain critical mass of people is reached, that is all that is required, and frankly it’s optimal if you want to tag mobs and collect loot. This is because events, in their current form, are not scaling well past 5-6 players. They need to produce more veteran and champion mobs, they need to start splitting players into different areas to attend to different things so they can’t cluster their AoEs, and they need to offer a meaningful threat to the single player beyond “I should make sure not to be the first guy to get aggro here”. I’d like to see Champion and Veteran mobs become a little more mobile and offensive, as well, and a little less “I am a bag of hit points”. Fortunately, this is a matter of tweaking some numbers.
5. LEVEL SCALED CONTENT NEEDS TO OFFER MORE LEVEL APPROPRIATE REWARDS
I’m not suggesting a 5th level Moa should rain Orichalum, but if you want players to spread out and experience the breadth of the world you created, you need to NOT provide them with tangible material incentives to camp the hell out of a single zone. Adjust your loot dropping formula so lower level mobs have a chance of dropping crafting material and loot appropriate to the true level of of the player killing them. Do that, and I will GLADLY wander your world like Caine in Kung Fu getting into adventures just for the sake of shaking things up. As, I expect, will many others.
And while we’re on the subject, if I’m level 80, and I’m in a level 60 area, don’t level scale me to 60 and then attack me with a 66 mob. That is GALLING. =P
I can speak only for me but what do you do if you are happy with 80% of the game and unhappy with the remaining 20%?
You try to give feedback. Bad idea in this game, you are swarmed by fanboys and… well I ranted about that in my original post. The level of fanboyism in this community is extreme, it’s destroying every form of constructive feedback.
The game has very dedicated devs behind it, it has wonderful graphics and introduces some nice concepts to the MMORPG genre. But it lacks progression in any form and if you give feedback why it’s boring you are bitten by rabid fanboys.
Well, that’s why I created this thread…
Cephei, I’m completely sympathetic to this, and I have a list of improvements about a mile long I think the game needs, but there’s an issue with the specific concept of perpetual item based progression. It’s not something you’re tweaking, it’s a core element of the game’s design. It’s part of the bedrock. It’s equivalent to going to WoW and telling them to remove classes and item progression. It’s going to be a contentious point.
I had to laugh at the “void of challenge” bit. If you want to be challenged then go to Uni or feed the starving or something. last time I checked this was a game and people came here to enjoy their travels and socialize. Void of challenge hehe, still chuckling here over that.
Amusingly, the EQ fans used the “void of challenge” cudgel to beat WoW fans with when that game launched.
In time, the abused become the abusers.
Also amusingly, no MMO ever has ever been particularly challenging on a tactical or reflex level, almost all of them allow you to brute force your way through with a massive time investment.
You are in every thread too, whats your point?
It’s because I can’t wait to see what you’ll say next, Birdy! What is it today!?
GW2 ran over my dog?
GW2 burned down my house?
GW2 made me waste hours on a forum posting reams of bile about a game I hate?
I get some of the things some ppl wish, I don’t share those opinions…but I get them, yet being so many other games that offer them, why should a game that other ppl enjoy for what it is change everything so a minority is happy with it and stays? Which in the end will turn it into X generic MMO out in the market…it only shows that some are alergic to any sort of change in their routine.
Because if it doesn’t change to suit their preferences it will FAIL! DOOM! BLARGELFARGLEARGLEBARG! And I have proof, because of that one time an unrelated product underperformed for unrelated reasons. Disagree? You’re a fanboy.
The end.
Birdy is in every thread guys. This is his thing to do. He’s lookin’ to rustle some jimmies. Just say “Oh it’s Birdy! I’m sorry about the herpes you claim you got from GW2, Birdy!” and carry on.
WoW was and is a great game. Thank god its still running. If I want some WoW, there it is. I don’t need to turn GW2 into WoW, or WoW into GW2. I can have both, and play both, and enjoy both.
Because my brain has evolved enough that I can enjoy more than one thing. Shocking, I know.
GW1 + all its expansions together sold a cumulative 7 million copies. Copies of the core game probably did not exceed 3-4 million. It’s a little misleading.
Still, very respectable numbers for a single platform game. No, it did not “flop”. I believe it was viewed as a success by NCSoft, and lord knows they’re hard to please at the best of times.
One last comment: IT’S NOT YOUR GAME IT’S ANET’S GAME AND WE PAID JUST AS MUCH IF NOT MORE TO PLAY IT AS YOU DID!
Ok, now I’m done.
You did, and your feedback is valid. It does not mean, though, that I need to endorse or support it in any way.
Perhaps I love pay to win. Perhaps I want a game where I can buy the best items and all my levels right off the store just by swiping my platinum card. I bought the game too! Would you want them taking my feedback into account?
The problem with infinite progression gear-creep raid models and…what Dark or whatever his name is argues for…is that the two systems are anathema to one another. Of course you’re going to disagree.
Go on white knighting the game.
You’ve got a couple of other people vigorously black hatting the game in this thread as well. This is just attitude polarization. It’s not enough to say ‘Dungeons aren’t quite to my taste, here are some suggestions" when you can say “GW2 gave me herpes and is the worst MMO in history”. It’s not enough to say “I think the game made some good steps in providing alternatives to X” when you can say “Go back to your crap game, crapsuckers”.
And honestly, with Birdy bringing his little hategasms to every single thread on the main page, you aren’t going to get anything resembling a fair discussion, it’s just going to be name calling and poop flinging from the third post in.
For my part, I am getting ALLERGIC to MMOs with infinite progression. There are already a dozen prominent treadmills on the market. Someone brings in an elliptical and everyone is all “Nuh uh, treadmill or GTFO.” It’s exhausting.