Guild Wars 2

shankyu.6154:

SF here. If you want to get rid of SF so bad and have some equal numbers to fight against, which I know SF certainly wants, then just stay home. Don’t step into WvW and just let SF have and hold everything for a week or so. We’ll be outa your hair in no time. Then you can get all the map completion and jumping puzzles you want.

You know what the really sad part is? I’ve seen this debated with seriousness on my server.

But, the real problem won’t fix itself once SF is gone from T8. The ratings of T8 will still be 300 points or more behind T7. This, in turn, leads to the exact same never-ending hill to climb if the server that replaces SF continues to handle FC and ET like an unruly sack of potatoes.

I’m not sure about the rest of T8, but that is why I’m actually posting on the forums for once. If the math behind the ratings wasn’t botched by the terror of free transfers, SF’s stay in T8 would have been a non issue. When blowouts happen in any other tier, it doesn’t take 6+ weeks to move the server up.

So, my apologies to SF. Most of the people in T8 aren’t frustrated at you guys personally (well, maybe to a lesser extent, but that’s an entirely different can of worms). You guys just get the unfortunate role of being the third server to be punished with an uncanny recreation of Sisyphus. May your boulder one day reach the top.

Corvus.3681:

lcc.9374:

Guitarist.4017:

your all looking like sad losers who can’t take a fall.

Pretty much what people from other matchups get from this thread.
Way to get some bad-rep for your server.
There goes my sympathy of SF rolling over you both.

A shame, the Fergusons used to be more classy.

It’s certainly the minority that is like this. Besides that, a lot of us are kinda bitter about our WvW situation and some people are behaving childishly because of it.

Also, we’re not looking for your sympathy. If we’re looking for anybody’s sympathy, its Anet’s. All three servers are tired of this match-up; we just want a break from the stagnation.

^

The way that the ratings work is that the system looks at the three servers’ current ratings and predicts the point outcome based off of those. The ratings are – sadly – modified based on how well a server does against its predicted outcome.

The math behind this is perfectly valid in theory. However the theory also assumes that the rating you have is more or less static, and that you will be facing enough opponents that a non-static score will be quickly dealt with.

This is what creates the soul-crushing pit that is T8. Due to the relatively small opponent pool we’ve faced, and the very static nature of their ratings (SF aside. Kain and DR were enough), the math involved has pushed the rating of FC to below where it should be. This, in turn, pulled ET down with us. And together, we shackle anyone unfortunate enough to face us.

That’s the problem with the current lack of a lower floor in T8 ratings. We’re far enough below the true T8 ratings (while still being T8 ratings), that SF can’t beat us by as much as the T7 ratings require it to. They lose ratings because the system not only expects them to curbstomp us, it expects them to curbstomp a fourth – and maybe a fifth as well – opponent in order to be on T7’s level.

That’s how beaten and bloody ET’s and FC’s ratings have become. Even if we did absolutely nothing, gaining fewer than 1000 end of week score between the two of us, SF still would not have beaten us by enough for the system to have trial run with SF in T7.

What makes this worse, is that every week SF stays in T8 and slaughters us, our ratings are going down further. This, simply put, only makes matters worse the longer they stay. SF will have roughly a two month stay. Assuming things continue to be a blowout even with SF gone as most non-T8 posters have predicted, the next unfortunate victim of T8 will be held hostage even longer.

^ If it did, tiers and server scores would be impossible to calculate, even in T7+ servers.

Err…I haven’t been keeping too up to date on exploit/cheap siege placements, but was pretty sure everyone in T5+ servers already found those months ago agreed that ANet intended for those catas to be placed there.

Not to invalidate the rest of your post, ‘cause we for sure have our share of bads and bad apples. From the people of FC, we apologize for them. But I’m pretty sure those catas are as un-cheap as attacking garrison water gate.

…I had thought I’d read everything in the thread. I can’t seem to find the reset being mentioned in a positive light at all. Could you kindly quote it for future reference? Much obliged.

Very few people actually think a reset is the means to the end we are asking for. There isn’t any need to upheave the upper ranks for our problem. Actually, the OP even stated within the first four lines of the thread that it would be a horrible idea. We are simply pointing out that there is a problem in the current T8 math due to no lower floor being in place, and hoping someone with the power to fix it does so.

oZii, none of us (most?) are not arguing over the coverage of SF. None of us are denying that someone in T7 losing would speed up SF’s escape velocity. What we are trying to say is that, due to the nightmare history of free transfers, combined with horrible luck, the T8 ratings have been beaten too low for a realistic “escape velocity” when dealing with this tier.

In the upper level tiers you’ve mentioned, they drop to lower level tiers. That is where this issue differs enough to matter. Even though some of those servers are steamrolled, when they are steamrolled enough, they drop. The huge factor that this plays is that they then curbstomp the lower tier.

Because of this, their rating goes back up. It doesn’t take a permanent and unavoidable nose-dive. This creates a lower floor for the rating difference. T8 doesn’t have that safety net, and is what everyone is trying to point out.

oZii.2864:

Thanks for the numbers breakdown takerukun.

Not a problem. I was going to go mad if somebody didn’t point out the numerical evidence for how screwed up T8 is at the moment. It isn’t even the disparity in population that’s the real issue. It’s the complete and utter lack of possible advancement for the server with the population anomaly.

To the thread in general, try and keep the discussion to a civil debate! ANet won’t take anybody seriously if we start to sound like a group of monkeys flinging feces at each other.

oZii.2864:

The only way SF moves out of tier 8 is to win by enough PPT and for the 21t server to lose by alot both need to happen simultaneously and on a regular basis. That is why SF wont move up.

Under normal circumstances, this is correct. Nobody argues that. What people are arguing is that in any other tier, the current blowout SF is providing the other servers with would make the performance of the tier above moot.

Take a look at Kain’s ratings. On the week they got the mass tranfer, they stomped T8 by over 200k points. Their ratings went up 211.428 points. After maintaining the slaughter-fest in T8, their ratings continued to rise. First by 111.249 points, then by a relatively meager 70.770 points.

That’s a whopping 393.447 points gained before they reached the next tier, and 3 weeks of misery for all sides involved.

Then look at their ratings after that. Not a single tier Kain was in required more than 200 points to reach the next tier. And it wasn’t until they reached T3 that they gained fewer than 150 points.

Yes, their server got even more transfers as they went up the ranks, and they might have even improved as that happened. However, do you honestly think that in one week, they improved enough to go from gaining 70 points by roflstomping T8 to 224 points in T7?

If anybody does, please get yourself checked. (This is not a direct attack at you Ozii. This is just general ranting on my part. My apologies if I offend.)

Furthermore, did the tiers above Kain suddenly stop performing well, with each being hit consecutively with some sort of n00b sickness to allow Kain to progress? No, they were simply so good in their own tier that the tier above didn’t matter any more for advancement purposes.

This is the reason that almost everyone in T8 is up in arms at the moment. You need to be consistantly T5+ material to escape from T8 in any semblance of a timely manner. Even then, the escaping tier needs some sort of mass plague to affect the performance of the tier above to have a glimmer of hope.

SF is not T5+ material. They have been here for 5 weeks already. They’re on their 6th. It’s going to take at least another 2 weeks for them to get out, for a total of at least 8 weeks stuck in T8 even though they’re T7 material.

Wall of Text Warning

TL;DR: Something is wrong here, and manual override is probably needed. Please, raise the T8 ratings to be within 100 or so of T7. Almost anything would be a major improvement at this point. Most of T7 and better is working as intended, but the math for T8 is simply impossible to overcome. Just looking at the past month alone shows that.

Just so that nobody misunderstands, nothing in this post is in any way debating whether FC and ET deserve to be in T8. This is simply backing up the people that say SF should be bumped up, manually if need be. They don’t deserve to be stuck in T8, and leaving them in T8 is demeaning to all three servers involved. However, the math behind the ratings is so screwed up that it’s almost impossible to do it naturally.

Please just take a look at SF’s rating evolution during their fall to T8. It’ll show you just how screwed up the math is, and how it’s almost literally impossible to escape from T8, even with a T7+ server.

When SF was still in T7, they came in third. They lost to second by a tiny 10k point gap. Their rating fell by 47.291 points.

When they fell down to T8, they came in second. They lost to first place by only 4k points. Mind you, they had an additional 76k points over what they had at the end of the week previously, but their rating still fell by a massive 163.07 points.

The week after that…they won. They beat second place by 15k points. What happened to their rating? It fell by an additional 30.339 points to beach itself at 793.338, a full 242.634 points behind HoD. I’d like to remind people that HoD and SF were roughly evenly matched before SF fell to T8.

Now take a look at HoD, who by all arguments was roughly evenly matched with SF before SF fell down to T8. The week after the fall, Kain curbstomped T7, with HoD taking third place. HoD lost by 10k points, only having 26k points at the end of the week.

Their rating? It fell by 61.899 points, down to 933.190. That’s it. It pushed itself back up to where it should be the week after that when Kain flung themselves out of the tier, now hovering roughly about the 1020 mark.

HoD’s rating is an example of what should happen when the tier ratings are close enough together that a blowout actually lets the system realize there might be a problem. SF’s ratings, on the other hand, are an example of just how screwed up the T8 math is.

No server should drop more than 150 points when they perform roughly the same. No server should continue to drop even more points when they start to wake up the server and win.

Then, simply because of the initial point loss, when SF truly woke up and started to roflstomp T8 (be it from people coming back to WvW or from free transfers is irrelevant at this point), the system can’t see a problem.

If anybody can argue that the math in place, and SF being held in T8 because of it are “fair” and “as it should be”, I’m begging you: Wake up.

As to why T8 ratings are so far below the T7 ratings in the first place, that topic would probably take half an essay to go over, so I won’t here. Just know that Kain and DR did not help the ratings of T8 at all with their stay.

On a side note, when SF finally breaks out of T8 (probably in 3-4 weeks if they keep the blowouts up), I request people take a very close look at the rating of the server that drops to take SF’s place. I’d bet you almost anything they drop minimum100 points the first week.

Thanks for the quick response. Guess I’ll just try and have faster reflexes.

This technically doesn’t go under the “bug” sub-forums, so I have no idea where else to put it but here. My apologies if this is also the wrong spot to ask.

Has anybody else noticed bots spawning on top of resource nodes, gathering them immediately, and then either teleporting away or despawning the second they’re done? I’ve been away from GW2 for about a month now, and just came back. Before I left, I never noticed a single instance of this. Today, I saw this happen three times in as many hours.

Usually I’d just report them and be on my way without going on the forums at all. The problem is that by the time I even notice what they’re doing, they despawn too quickly to get a report off. How would other people go about trying to report them?

So…am I going crazy with a bad internet connection, or this a new development? For that matter, has this been reported multiple times already?

Thanks for any replies!

Hey Lukin, this is working as it should. It stealths for 3 seconds per pulse, so the longer you stay in the AoE, the longer the stealth lasts. However, if you leave the AoE field with more than 4-5 seconds of stealth left, it breaks stealth and gives the revealed debuff.