Guild Wars 2

Steel Fenrir.2791:

If other players would get access to sprockets in some way or another through out the year, then everything is fine. Otherwise, although this may not be pay to “win” per se (or atleast sprockets are not yet game breaking as it is), I would rather call it premium unlockables, a milder version of pay to win. I have 6 stacks of sprockets in my bank (+2 stacks in storage) and I don’t know if I’ll ever need them in the future atm. I do think we might get access to sprockets all year round, since the LS season 1 is ending and we don’t know what the model of the game would be afterwards (I mean, would the past LS events become replayable or not?). So for now, be patient guys.

Two things.

First. Players can still currently get access to sprockets year round if they do the Origin of Madness meta achievement and earn the Gift of Sprockets. (Much like you can get Quartz or Candy Corn all year round). There’s also talk of the Queen’s Gauntlet opening again at some unknown point, and if it comes with the Pavilion as well then there’s a good chance people can farm up a ton of the things.

Secondly. This topic isn’t supposed to be about the sprockets so much as the precedent of a mining pick with infinite uses and a bonus effect as opposed to just being unlimited.

I’ll also add nobody yet answered questions which were seriously asked about:

- If the pick was dropped via a more convoluted effort but you could just skip it for 1000 Gems, would anyone care as much?

zwierz.9012:

Except for LA being a site of annual Underworld (Mad Realm) opening LA is as Thaladoe say. But the barrier between Tyria and Mists is weakest in LA, not anywhere elsde. Mad King comes to LA, Wintersday thing was happening in LA, and so on.

It makes sense that it’s a central ley line intersection actually, as testified by M.K. Thorn, tons of demons, all wintersdays in GW1 etc.

So yeah, of all of Tyria maybe Deslation, Door of Komalie and maybe Raisu Palace can possibly come close seconds to Lions Arch when it comes to otherwordly incursions and phenomena, I don’t think any place can quite compete though.

There’s that one spot in the Crystal Desert (probably under the Dragonbrand now) where one could push through into the Hall of Heroes. Then there’s the Central Transfer Chamber, Artesian Waters, and Thaumanova.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Nike.2631:

I think you left out Mad king Thorn and something like 5 wives .

8 wives plus one.

But there’s 5 wives that we know of.

King Thorn beats Henry VIII, I guess!

Psynch.4087:

Warlord.9074:

Really I think Scarlet is Omads puppet. And Omad is controlling her. That seems more plausible. Cuz my Asura opened up a clue that said that he cheated in the contests that we were in together. As part of my own personal story i got a different clue than everyone else. He used his device to break into her head.

(But he’s dead)

That hasn’t stopped people from doing that before. I mean, there’s Xehanort . . .

CureForLiving.5360:

Durzlla.6295:

I mean i feel like you’re grasping at straws with this… but it does sorta fit… then again most things like this can fit if you look at it hard enough.

It’s called the texas sharpshooter fallacy.
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/09/11/the-texas-sharpshooter-fallacy/

. . . and this suddenly applies to a lot of things ’round here

But saved this link with some other useful ones.

WyldKat.4712:

You don’t think they’re trying to poke fun at the dysfunctional US Congress do ya?

No, that’s what Divinity’s Reach and the Ministry is for.

Belzebu.3912:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Belzebu.3912:

The Destiny’s Edge had 2 asuras and we all know what happened, right?

Kralk only got the job half done?

Nope, it took the wrong one.

I’d be willing to agree to that. Should we give it a chance to do it right?

perilisk.1874:

Scarlet, of course, is Abaddon in this story. Crazy, ambitious, and enough of a threat to require the other “gods” band together to bring her down. The leylines are probably the equivalent of the bloodstone in this telling (which is odd, since they’re actually probably more powerful, not less). The madness and the thorns and such recall the Realm of Torment somewhat, thematically.

They do? And you’re either forgetting or misremembering why Abaddon was piled on by the other five gods – he didn’t agree with their treatment of magic. They didn’t like how he had given it to the mortal races.

Also, Abaddon was originally the god of water and secrets.

Braham is Balthazar — he’s a Guardian, which means he’s a virtuous warrior who likes to light things on (holy) fire.

But he doesn’t do the whole fire thing, he settles for bubble shields and mace hits. This doesn’t fit as properly as is evident.

Rox is Melandru — she’s a Ranger (associated with Melandru, at least in GW1), and is a miner (Earth element). Also, named Rox (“Rocks”) in case the Earth thing wasn’t obvious enough.

Rox Pickheart, originally. She’s a ranger but seems more of the original type in execution than rangers are now. (Uses a bow and pet, as well as Healing Spring.) But she’s not exactly in tune with nature, just earth in general. And not quite in the same way as Melandru seemed to care – she was a miner and the only survivor of an accident. There’s no special connection there, it’s just where she wound up.

Also, apparently she’s now “Rox Whetstone” provisionally. I hope that means she starts using “Sharpening Stone”

Kasmeer/Delaqua are Lyssa. Illusion, Water (“Del Aqua”), Beauty, two females, etc.

Ilya and Lyss, not “Lyssa” exatly. Twins who share one divine purpose. The focus is less on beauty and more on illusion and grace. Water isn’t her original affinity, but “chaos magic” is supposed to be more a part of it.

Taimi is probably Dwayna. Remember that, in GW1, the legs of Dwayna’s statues were always shattered, and the statue was held aloft by air magic.

Always shattered? You’re forgetting something which was different. I think the statues are always shattered because of Malchor breaking statues he didn’t like the form of while trying to finish. So those broken statues are the template for the others. But that’s a topic for a different place . . .

Taimi doesn’t mesh with the rest of Dwayna’s focus, the whole leg thing is all there is. It’s too much of a stretch.

That leaves Grenth, who is probably Canach, what with his turn toward the dark and brooding and such. Still, he needs an ice theme to really make it work. Scarlet doesn’t really have any ice alliance, so maybe it’s still in the works.

Marjory is better, being a necromancer who at least at one point talked with and helped settle spirits of the dead so they could pass on. Canach would better suit Melandru for his affinity and talent for working with plants.

All in all, it doesn’t fit too well, but it should also be noted there’s an archetype regarding the Fall of Abaddon which has been used in myths before. One godly being who steps out of line for non-selfish reasons only to be struck down by their peers? It’s also a somewhat common thing of a mortal being who looked too closely into things they were not meant to know going mad over it . . .

I think H.P. Lovecraft’s expanded mythos covers that base rather well. By the way, if we don’t have some terrible and horrible Thing from the Mists I’m going to be disappointed.

Belzebu.3912:

Nike.2631:

No matter what you think of Jory and Kasmeer’s relationship, expect it to be short.

The New Destiny’s Edge has exactly one human too many.

The Destiny’s Edge had 2 asuras and we all know what happened, right?

Kralk only got the job half done?

Starduster.9746:

FluffyFox.2756:

Why do you think bag slots and bank tabs are available for purchase in the gem store? ;D

Haha yeah already considered this but since I’m coming towards the end of crafting my Sunrise I can’t afford to splash out on account upgrades

Character slots have more value. You can throw a lot more stuff into a character with 12 or 15 slot bags on them. Bank slots are the next best since it’s shared and accessible to all. Bag slots aren’t as useful since only one character gets it and they’re nontransferrable.

Also, best to buy any of these when they’re on sale.

perilisk.1874:

Much more likely that Canach is the Sylvari member. It also tracks better with my theory that they are stand-ins for the gods instead of DE, what with him getting all grim and dark and whatnot.

“Getting”?

I don’t see him as grim and dark so much as resigned and seeking atonement for his mistakes. He feels guilt and does not like what happened on Southsun Cove.

He was already dark when we ran into him in Garrenhoff, having lost his team and wanting to hide his involvement. He became grim when he was seeing the Consortium not really being punished and throwing him to the Lionguard as a scapegoat. Plus there’s hints of people trying to kill him to get him out of the way . . .

Honestly, in another game he’d be our player-controlled avatar

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Thanks for your respective elaborations, Tobias and Malchior.

Those who show respect get respect. Those who have opinions I can at least understand (even if I don’t agree) get me explaining why I feel a way even if it gets wordy.

I really try not to dismiss people out of hand for disagreeing. (And I still fail sometimes )

Really, what the CDI threads need are ideas and expressions of opinion more than trying to set people straight.

Didn’t you post this before . . . .?

Nah, must be seeing things.

Don’t forget Ranger Axe, though that’s a little trickier to pull with.

Randulf.7614:

Or Evon wants LA to be destroyed so he can make a fortune selling weapons to heroes..

Sneaksy charr!!!

Remember Gwen!! Remember the broken flute!!! Don’t trust the charr!!!!!!!

Remember Ascalon, the dead and the dishonorable burials!

Better to let Scarlet burn the city than Evon run it like he runs the BLTC!

chemiclord.3978:

Or is the simple possibility that it MIGHT provide an advantage at some indeterminate time down the road enough to qualify?

That and there might be a slippery slope of increasing effectiveness of picks at some point where it becomes more blatant.

Nike.2631:

‘Cause I’m thinking the Watchwork Pick is evidence that an item can be a bad idea regardless of its win-y-ness…

It’s not a bad idea of an item.

How it was presented and the availability of it? That was what set things off.

killcannon.2576:

I didn’t bring reality into it…you started going on about the cost of milk for whatever reason you had. You did read your own post? If you can’t keep it in game terms, it’s not my problem.

There is milk in the game though so to be pedantic, we are using game terms. And if we accept each copper has a US dollar value then it’s very definitely using game terms transferred into actual currency with the same result: the price/value of the object in question differs.

The definition of p2w has not changed at all since I started typing. I would welcome you to show me where I changed what I gave as the objective definition? Not sure what you are seeing.

I’m not sure what you’re seeing either if you want to put forth there is an objective definition of something nobody seems to be able to objectively apply the definition to. Of course, if the problem is in interpretation of an objective definition, it’s still a problem about subjective and not objective, and trying to work with an objective definition defeats the purpose.

Especially since it can be interpreted to absurdity.

killcannon.2576:

For the people who want to say p2w is subjective based upon perceived value.

If it that is indeed how you feel, then none of your arguments can ever hold any weight. If it is subjective for you, then it is subjective for everyone. The game is both p2w and not p2w depending on who you ask and you are no more correct than anyone else.

It is subjective for everyone, or it has an objective definition which can be turned into insane conclusions which don’t make sense.

You can not have it both ways. If you feel it is based upon a perceived notion of subjective value, you then can not set any goal post for anyone else and there is no value in your opinion in an objective discussion except in telling people how your opinion is right and there’s is not. Which makes no sense.

And yet, here we are again and again about the topic of pay to win. Not just you and I, but everyone else discussing it like it matters.

There is either an objective definition (which there is)

Says you. And it still can be twisted through interpretation into making no sense at all by anyone with half a brain. An objective definition on the same wavelength of “this is the objective definition of ‘cantaloupe’.”

(Which, incidentally, is also one thing which is attributed wrongly when talking about the produce . . . )

or there is a subjective definition for everyone and you can’t say it’s not p2w. An objective, fact based, definition can not include a subjective term. If allowing a single sprocket per hit of a pick is not p2w, neither is being able to buy a more powerful armor than anything else available in game.

There is a difference and you’re throwing it away because . . . in your esteemed opinion . . . it doesn’t matter to the interpretation of the definition.

The sprockets are available through the “Sprocket Generator” resource node still available for two weeks (minus two days right now). They are available to anyone who plays the game and completes that meta achievement. In this instance, there isn’t “pay to win” since any person can earn themselves Sprockets if they do this. Considering they can also be traded between players, it is difficult to get the definition to stick without some considerable extra clauses which renders 90% of the game also “pay to win”.

A more powerful armor (“introducing the new Cash Shop Tier”) not available elsewhere in the game purchased only through Gems is more decidedly “pay to win” since it gives an advantage not available elsewhere through other means. Though if that tier was made available at a later date through normal play, then perhaps it could be argued to have been P2W once but not anymore.

There is a notable difference between these two. Discarding them is doing a disservice to a proper analysis.

Farzo.8410:

I just wish I knew what was happening at ArenaNet’s office, what it is that keeps them away from creating the game they wanted to.

Well, they have a broad diverse spectrum of tastes in the players and when one group really likes something the other 90% of the spectrum threatens to quit. So . . .

What is it that keeps them put everything into the store, what is it that keeps them away from putting out thing they want to.

People gotta eat, servers gotta stay running.

killcannon.2576:

Yeah… value is subjective. I’ve been saying that.

Reality has no place when the discussion is about games, because we don’t follow the same natural laws. You would have to compare it to fantasy in real life then, which would be another huge topic.

Reality has no place? We’re not talking about reality, I was talking about value. You’re the one who decided to make it about reality and move the topic again.

You can not use perceived value as a basis to determine p2w. It’s simple.

. . . and yet people do. Perception is reality. We went over this.

If it is offered in the gemstore and not in game and makes anyone more proficient than anyone else at anything than someone without it….it’s p2w. Objective.

See, now you changed the description of Pay To Win again. And if you want to be honest about that definition being objective, the whole game is pay to win since I bought the game via the store and since I am better at the game than someone without it, it must be Pay To Win. Or I’m better at having used the “Mistfire Wolf” skill since I paid for digital deluxe, so Pay To Win. Or I have a mini nobody else can have thanks to paying for it. Pay To Win.

How far does this definition actually go before we need to inject some subjectivity to keep it from being interpreted with that above insanity?

Nike.2631:

I still think I could use pieces from those sets to make some of my characters look more awesome.

Maybe I’m just not getting the joke…?

So they are lower sets – I find the “moar spikez, moar flamez” that permeates the upper tiers to be really hideously ugly.

The joke is he’s riffing on the Flamekissed controversy and how that was a doctored skin. So he deliberately chose a “crappy skin” to work over to make it look impressive.

(Note, this isn’t hard to do. I found myself really loving my old Tyrian Vest for my ranger in GW1. At least until I played around with the dyes on Monument Armor. And for the reference? Tyrian Vest was not a prestige set, so it was “crap armor”.)

Also, still think Obsidian Armor from GW1 looked so ugly they should have sent Dhuum to go visiting. And Chaos Gloves struck me as a massive waste of material. And the bright guy who designed that Gladiator Warrior armor for males needed to have seen the sudden surge in Bright Pink dyed sets, coupled with the /dance emote being used to primarily ‘stalk’ AFK people in Kamadan for the lulz.

What’s missing from GW2 I miss?

Nicholas the Traveler.

/thread

Love Marjory, especially the voice. Something about a husky contralto . . .

Kasmeer . . . hmmm, nope. When she goes through as much as Gwen did, then she can have a break. Until then, moar tragedy.

By the way, because I am fairly sure it wasn’t said:

“This is the armor of a killer. . .” (sparkle)

These skins also drop in low level zones on low level blues, don’t they? I know I got that quilted armor during BWE3 on my ranger in Queensdale. I have the screenshot somewhere.

gidorah.4960:

I honestly do not think the cdi can stay a healthy means of communication without there being better and more reliable channels of communication outside of it.

You’re aware it’s quite possible that’s outside the scope of what he can do anything about, discuss openly, impact meaningfully, or all of the above?

killcannon.2576:

Again. There are not multiple definitions of pay to win. Only where you move the goal post in it’s relation to what you value.

No.

There are multiple subjective definitions, because as we established – perception is reality.

If the gem store sells Ascended armor +1 to all stats…is that pay to win?
If the gem store sells Ascended armor +100 to all stats…is that pay to win instead?

Both are.

But as neither are real, then does it matter?

If the gem store next week sells a pick that gives 1 sprocket per hit….is that pay to win?
If the gem store next week sells a pick that gives 100 per hit…..is that pay to win?

Both are.

Only if the sprockets have a value which makes them significantly unbalancing. Otherwise, it’s a neat little extra which doesn’t trip the “pay to win” definition because other activities generate more over time than swinging the pick.

People want to argue what is value.

Okay, as the other guy said, I’ll bite.

Value isn’t a simple definition by any means, even when talking of monetary value. You have to know this, because your conversations show you to at least study whether something is objective or subjective.

Heck, even monetary value is incredibly subjective and has goal posts moved all the darn time. Something which is worth $1.00 US today is not necessarily worth $1.00 US tomorrow, or was worth $1.00 US a year ago. Or ten years ago. You can point to a tag and say “this is a fact this gallon of milk costs $2.73 US”. You’d be right. But that value is fluid and mutable – that same gallon of milk costs $4.21 US at my corner store, most likely.

While there is a fact about what value is set at in one moment, there is no concrete, completely objective monetary value any object has set on it.

Value is subjective.

Fafnir.5124:

So you watched the NASCARS rolling around the circle and you are telling me you are and as a car starts spinning out of control you are not going to watch the crash?

If I’m at the track and I see a crash start, I’m going over/through/around people for cover.

Holy crap, am I in a clique now? I’ve never been in a clique before, quick, how am I supposed to act? Cool? Nonchalant? Should I go hipster? Do I need a suit and tie?

The concern about not being heard because you’re not a regular is an understandable concern. It’s also one of those natural responses any time an undertaking like this gets sufficiently large . . . almost an indicator of when it becomes “big”. If the reaction of people participating for the first time is “I don’t know if I’ll be listened to but…” then you’ve got a problem with size.

On the other hand, it’s a constant and consistent problem with human mentality. “Wow that’s a lot of people, I don’t think I’ll be noticed” is common. Even on the Internet, where there’s often literally just words and a screenname to regard instead of how you’re dressed, male or female, body language . . . it’s still an effect of speaking up in a group.

Really the best way to be sure you’re noticed is not to make a big deal about being noticed or not being noticed. Don’t just bring a good idea to the table, sit around to discuss others. Get involved, be respectful, if you think some idea needs tweaking offer your tweaks and edits for consideration.

And ideally, the reward for doing this is the act, not what’s at the end. The reward is a self-satisfaction of looking at something and going “I helped build that”. We really should require nothing more.

They used to be an item but when stacks began to accumulate and take up bank space . . . along with things like dungeon tokens . . . they decided to revamp the whole thing.

(One thing they took from player feedback, I will note.)

Blockhead Magee.3092:

If you say so

I’d rather the company hire writers with creativity.

Oooh, there’s a problem. Because ‘creative’ doesn’t translate necessarily to ‘good’. Much like “professional” doesn’t necessarily mean “good”.

See, I’d rather they hire writers who are comfortable working with them. Because if the writer isn’t comfortable, things won’t mesh right, and you get things like writers departing over personal issues with other employees rather than more serious issues.

Writing is an art.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Use all the bold and caps you want to express your opinion.

ANet kittened up Scarlet and has been trying to recover ever since. While you may defend the company, others of us will continue to point out what a colossal mistake the writers made.

Yes.

They never should have done anything after Prophecies.

It is known.

They count, but they’re not an actual physical item. They go into the “Wallet” you can view under your “Hero (H) panel”.

CharrGirl.7896:

From what I see from the in game conversations, other articles, blog posts, vids (even WP expressed his delight as in “freaking finally!”) it’s safe to say that the majority is feeling very positive about this. For whatever reasons.

Well positive or ambivalent. “Lesbians? Who cares, when are they going to fix sPvP?!”

killcannon.2576:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

killcannon.2576:

Majic.4801:

Arguing about logical fallacies and other ephemera misses the point that players are not required to act like robots.

If players feel like they’re being played, they will react in whatever fashion they will.

Logic need not apply, nor will sophistry of any form change anyone’s minds about what they will accept or not accept in an MMO.

True, perception will always trump definition.

Partly true. In this case, perception is reality for many of the people in this discussion. And given we’re talking about things which don’t even exist at all, it’s really hard to argue what’s “real” at all.

Perception is the biggest factor in most discussions of the real, regardless in what form it takes.

Your perception of the pick colors your reality of how it should be treated, the same as other’s perceptions color theirs.

My perception? It exists. The fact it exists is enough to make a bunch of people upset, even without taking into account an extra effect. It marks three distinct permanent, infinite picks with different animations; this is enough to make people upset.

My opinion of the pick is simply put: its extra effect is unimportant in the face of having 4 weeks to secure your very own source without spending Gems. This has to be how it managed to “sneak by” and get included. The precedent is irrelevant to the discussion, and hinges on assumptions of the future which cannot be proven, just suspected strongly.

The objective truth here is: There is a pick that is only available in the gemstore. The gemstore can only ever be accessed with real money, either your’s or someone else’s. The pick has greater functionality than any other pick outside of the gemstore. These are facts.

If I accept these as facts, does that mean I can only subscribe to your interpretation of them, or do I get to make my own mind up?

People’s perception will then color what this means to them. Is it too much? Is it o.k.? Does it make the pick they bought earlier obsolete? Is it o.k. since I can trade gold to get gems? Does the increased functionality break the game? What do people consider an advantage? What is your individual created goal line for what your definition of p2w is? These are opinions and perception. And in each individual case you may have different answers depending on any number of factors.

Well at least we can agree there are myriad definitions of “pay to win” and not one unified, immutable one. Even if it keeps creeping into a thread intended to be more about the extra effect precedent and not about the actual item.

Perception trumps reality in almost any aspect of life, except where natural, inescapable laws come into play.

This is why I stopped trying to pursue anything other than honest hard work for a career. I prefer things such as making sure product is available or acting as a register-operating counter monkey to blogging, writing opinion columns, or trying to sell services people don’t really need or want.

But back on topic. Again.

With the question I raised many many times before:

If this pick was available in the Gem Store for 1000 Gems and also available as a rare drop during a Living Story segment, or as a meta achievement reward, would we be having this discussion? Would it be permissible to create an item like this which was either available in game through luck or earning it versus “ah screw it I don’t want to participate in the LS this month, I’ll just buy it”.

Honestly I was thinking I ran out of things to say on this topic. Discussing it with someone else who went through similar processes with me over more realistic things (school board/system reorganization) led me to a couple things.

First. It’s important to have these going on. It’s also important to know just because something is given an “interesting idea, we’ll talk about it”, there’s no promise of action on it. I think most regular contributors on the boards and in suggestion topics are aware of this, but most irregular contributors and ‘outliers’ might not be. It needs to not be seen as a warning not to contribute and more of a disclaimer of “we’re discussing options and possibilities, not promising actions to be taken”.

Secondly. We all really need to work on getting some concise posting going on these threads so we get less “walls of text”. (Scribbles that down for a future Mesmer skill) Part of this is backing away from the “micro” side of ideas and staying with the “macro”; don’t get caught up in the details when you post unless you’re asked by the mods for elaboration. Give an outline, not a full thirty-page proposal.

Lastly. We as a community, and as concerned players, need to understand and respect boundaries. Not just of the mods, but of each other. If the topic is “CDI: Discussion of Charr Personal Story” then posting about how the latest Living Story update sucks or how Queensdale needs a nerfing isn’t on topic. A mod not answering that in the CDI thread isn’t shirking their duties, you’re just being an idiot by waving your hands in front of a camera. It also doesn’t help if you dredge up off-topic things the mod has said in the past, or act out about how they’re not trustworthy. That’s the boundaries we have to respect of the moderators. For each other’s boundaries? I’ll put this simply – it’s unnecessary to level personal attacks at people, or to deride their ideas as being stupid without actually explaining why you think that.

killcannon.2576:

Majic.4801:

Arguing about logical fallacies and other ephemera misses the point that players are not required to act like robots.

If players feel like they’re being played, they will react in whatever fashion they will.

Logic need not apply, nor will sophistry of any form change anyone’s minds about what they will accept or not accept in an MMO.

True, perception will always trump definition.

Partly true. In this case, perception is reality for many of the people in this discussion. And given we’re talking about things which don’t even exist at all, it’s really hard to argue what’s “real” at all.

arlowix.5039:

Do you see any hate posts about Scarlet at the moment? Everyone wants this story arc to end but nobody truly hates Scarlet anymore, because they added DEPTH and everyone came to understand and be curious about her character.

People didn’t stop the hate posts, they just decided “heck with it, it’s over in a month” and are moving on to discussing why they didn’t like her rather than her presence in itself.

It has nothing to do with depth added, it has to do with “we’re almost done, just get through it”.

I believe that future villains are going to be structured far better than the way Scarlet was. Anet showed (at least for me) that they could understand from their errors…hopefully they won’t repeat the same mistakes again.

I’m more skeptical of this. I expect the next time we’ll see the same posts, the same complaints, and the same portion of forumgoers calling the next big villain “the lore slayer” and such.

Because it’s the internet.

I think what it means is “If we get an immediate and overwhelmingly negative response, we’ll push the button which summons the kill laser”.

Sinifair.1026:

Lutinz.6915:

And norn are emotional all the time particularly about friends and companions.

Not in this way… there’s just something completely off about Braham as a norn and how he reacted in “A Moments Peace” during the Origins of Madness.
- He sounded childish. “Awh, Rox… don’t go. Noo, I don’t want you to!”

I mean, though it isn’t directly taken from his dialogue, that was how it felt.

Well he is said to be rather young for a norn.

Zaxares.5419:

I wish we could go inside and have a look.

Um, to see the black curtains, of course. -cough-

It has nothing to do with the asuran etheric viewing device you were planting under the bed?

I’m still not convinced, personally, it’s actually Lion’s Arch she’s after but the city’s Lionguard are in her way. And rather than try to just sneak her way through, or buy her way through . . . she’d rather just smash through.

By the by, I expect someone’s going to pay Canach’s bail and say “hey you, shrubbery, get to work defending Lion’s Arch to pay us back for your messes”.

I get the feeling she is looking for the exact location of the Central Transfer Chamber which was lost, or something similar in the Depths under Lion’s Arch. Remember there were old ruins down there we didn’t get a chance to explore before destroyers chased us out 250 years ago . . .

I also suspect she may not be after Lion’s Arch directly, but wants them out of the way so she can pursue something else in the region without the Lionguard getting in on the action.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Welp, that’s why I’ve never seen Logan. I have yet to join a successful Marionette run (yay kittenty laptop only allowing me in low zerg places without burning up).

Note – You can also see it after a failed run. Just stand near her at the head of the lane and it happens about 5-10 minutes after the event ends.

Logan and Rytlock.

JerekLo.5893:

Gasp! She’s going to drink our milkshake!

Joke’s on her, that’s a root beer float.

Atlas.9704:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sariel V.7024:

Becka Williams.4978:

I don’t care who you are, you don’t try to defend some place by killing 10s of thousands of people. Generally speaking, that’s what the villain does.

Have you seen Watchmen?

How about Star Wars . . . I submit there were thousands of people on the Death Star when it went up. While some of them were undoubtedly evil people, many were more than likely just doing their jobs or posts without actual malice in their hearts.

That’s not even touching what happened to the still-under-construction second Death Star. I mean, those work crews . . . whew.

How anyone doesn’t see the Rebel Alliance as anything other than murdering terrorists is beyond me

Meanwhile the Federation in Star Trek lets whole planets die due to their precious Prime Directive.

I know, right? Unless you’re on the Voyager, in which case you do it because . . . quantum.

Sariel V.7024:

Becka Williams.4978:

I don’t care who you are, you don’t try to defend some place by killing 10s of thousands of people. Generally speaking, that’s what the villain does.

Have you seen Watchmen?

How about Star Wars . . . I submit there were thousands of people on the Death Star when it went up. While some of them were undoubtedly evil people, many were more than likely just doing their jobs or posts without actual malice in their hearts.

That’s not even touching what happened to the still-under-construction second Death Star. I mean, those work crews . . . whew.

How anyone doesn’t see the Rebel Alliance as anything other than murdering terrorists is beyond me

zwierz.9012:

Of course people invested in researching lore could strongly suspect everything occuring during “investigation” or consider it outright obvious.

The point of this instance was in my opinion to make kitten sure that even people who don’t follow closely to all the theories or bits of lore or simply just joined in on LS can catch up. Gotta remember that the game is not just for us lore maniacs who spent time lore sniffing since Prophecies.

And so it didn’t “come out of nowhere” as I’m sure there will be topics about anyway.