Is the scoreboard the problem? Considering that pretty much every team sport has one I don’t see how that can be the case.
Personally I think the problem is the number of fairweather players who leave or just won’t play when their team is losing. A lot of the current scores aren’t a good indication of server strength or even the numbers they can bring to the battle. Many servers just plain gave up after a few days. Had they stuck around or even allied with the other losing server then they may have had a chance at making a comeback, or at least making the scoreboard look more respectable.
Do people like it when their favourite football/baseball/rugby/whatever team gives up once they start losing? No. So why is it acceptable here?
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
Come to Anvil Rock or Darkhaven where Yaks Bend is leading us both 411,000 to roughly 80,000 and tell us all that we should use tactics to win.
Of course you could always let the server rankings system do what it was designed for and move Yak’s up a tier next week.
Losing one match is not the end of the world and not an excuse for major design changes.
I guess you just don’t want to accept the reality of the situation and admit that you are wrong in your way of thinking.
If being number one means you are the best server, and a server like Yaks bend can win solely because of its dual NA and Oceanic populations which give it the ability to put forth organized fresh players in WvW at all hours of the day or night, then the system is flawed and has nothing to do with player skill or organization and everything to do with who can stay awake the longest.
I’ve proved my point, and the scoreboard in our match this week reinforces it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the future, but I will bet cash money that the top three servers will be those with heavy NA and Oceanic populations at the end of the day.
You haven’t proven anything other than you not understanding how server rankings work. The scoreboard of one week proves zilch as the next week’s matchups will be different, and probably the week after that etc. Ultimately the servers that can field 24×7 will face off against each other more or less consistently and the ones that can’t will face others that can’t.
If the system was broken then you’d be playing against Yak’s every single week.
It takes a lot of skill taking on Doors and winning. And it’s great that the needs of a few off-peak players and randoms from around the world are setting the skilled servers apart from the crap servers. Pvp skill is all in how many real players you avoid when you play.
Try transferring to any of the Top 4 servers and see for yourself if there are " a few off-peak players".
Depends on whether he is EU or US as the situations are different. But yeah, its a point of view that keeps getting parroted about by non off peak players who really don’t have a clue what off peak is like.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
Come to Anvil Rock or Darkhaven where Yaks Bend is leading us both 411,000 to roughly 80,000 and tell us all that we should use tactics to win.
Of course you could always let the server rankings system do what it was designed for and move Yak’s up a tier next week.
Losing one match is not the end of the world and not an excuse for major design changes.
peak hour 80%
off-peak 15%
3-8am 5%
Point count like that should solve the problem and the night time exploiters should also be happy
Night time “exploiters”? Seriously?
So in a 24×7 battle anyone who plays when you are not on is now an exploiter?
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
(Insert US server disclaimer)
There was a post on another thread about how “prime time” was about 6 hours, leaving the fate of the match to be decided by off peak play in the other 18 hours. It got me thinking, considering that regions like Asia and Oceania do not play for the entirety of those other 18 hours, so how did everything fit in.
So after working through the time zone differences (and assuming my conversions are right) I’ve found that Asia/Oceanic prime time basically follows a few hours after the US prime time ends, give or take a few depending on which coast you are on. So in effect there is a gap AFTER Asia/Oceania prime time and BEFORE US prime time.
The entire term “night capping” is a complete misnomer since night time is realistically prime time. WvW should actually be vulnerable during the US day time as this is after Asian/Oceanic prime time.
Just FYI, I’ve used 6pm-12pm as “prime time”, US/Pacific to US/Eastern as the US timezones and GMT+8 to GMT+12 as Asian/Oceanic timezones. Its not exact but good for a general idea.
You forgot one thing. How long the average MMO player is in the game playing it. For most, its a long period of time.
The “night capping” we are talking about is that magical hour of around 3am-4am where even the most hardcore MMO player is saying screw it and going to sleep.
This turns out to be the start of late night gaming for most oceanic players. I would say most of the back capping happens between 2am-10am when all NA players are going to sleep or are already asleep.
Keep in mind, a server that is heavy in both populations will have organized pvp guilds operating around the clock regardless of the time. Hope this helps!
Actually my point was that the issue isn’t how things are capped post US prime time, its how long they are able to stay that way. The longer something is capped for the greater the impact it will have on the scoreboard. The bigger gap between the end of Asian/Oceanic prime time and start of US prime time means a potentially bigger impact on the scoreboard. That gap, and thus the impact on the scoreboard, can be minimised by the actions of daytime US players.
I still believe that server rankings will go a long way towards balance though.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
(Insert US server disclaimer)
There was a post on another thread about how “prime time” was about 6 hours, leaving the fate of the match to be decided by off peak play in the other 18 hours. It got me thinking, considering that regions like Asia and Oceania do not play for the entirety of those other 18 hours, so how did everything fit in.
So after working through the time zone differences (and assuming my conversions are right) I’ve found that Asia/Oceanic prime time basically follows a few hours after the US prime time ends, give or take a few depending on which coast you are on. So in effect there is a gap AFTER Asia/Oceania prime time and BEFORE US prime time.
The entire term “night capping” is a complete misnomer since night time is realistically prime time. WvW should actually be vulnerable during the US day time as this is after Asian/Oceanic prime time.
Just FYI, I’ve used 6pm-12pm as “prime time”, US/Pacific to US/Eastern as the US timezones and GMT+8 to GMT+12 as Asian/Oceanic timezones. Its not exact but good for a general idea.
Yes but off-hour points should probably count for less.
Why should fierce full-map battles between 3 full teams count for 100% points and 10 guys capping unopposed at 5am also founds for 100% points? Make points based somewhat on map population. Base 50% points per tick with bonus points up to 100% as you reach full population.
Do you have any factual evidence to support your claim that off peak players are all capping unopposed? Or are you just repeating what has been said on the forums by other players? Who are, incidentally, basically prime time players and have no idea what happens during off peak times.
Ok, I’m sure the top 3 populated realms in Europe are just a unique snowflake then, with only one being permanently 24/7 while the other 2 have EU sleeping patterns.
Occam’s Razor. Couple of anecdotal stories versus the truth day in, day out, since release on all battlegroups and WvW events I’ve been in. I’m sure I’m just unlucky, right?
As I said, I can’t talk for EU, but my experiences on the US side are in no way anecdotal. I am curious though, do you play off peak?
Wouldn’t the cap also allow those playing on the large server to enjoy WvW more?
Maybe, maybe not. What it definitely will do is ensure that less people get to play.
Many of these suggestions ignore the fact that there is a sizeable portion of fairweather players. They will only play when they are winning. So if you pop cap based on the losing sides then its a downward cycle.
No, you don’t Wolfus. Keep dreaming. Your zerg battling 2-3 poor folks wandering around in the wilderness isn’t WvW.
Try again please. Also, make it more obvious that you’re just greedily obsessed with the karma/gold/xp train you and your friends keep riding. Address my points or go home.
Experiences are relative.
(Insert US server disclaimer)
I’m an Oceanic player so I’m always playing off peak. Every single time I’ve been in WvW there have been groups of other players to fight against. Every single time. Since release.
This idea that off peak players just fight NPCs/doors is an idea bandied about by prime time players that have never been in WvW during off peak hours.
So you have an artificial population cap like the OP suggests. I can see the following happening:
1) Dominant side is better organised and keeps beating the two weaker sides regardless of the cap.
2) The weaker side players keep leaving WvW because they aren’t winning.
3) The cap gets lower and lower until there is no-one in WvW at all.
This game stopped being fun when the sole determining factor for success turned out to be “how many Aussies are on your server.”
This is complete and utter rubbish.
SoS and IoJ both have high Oceanic populations and yet they got smashed by ET (a medium pop server).
Yes, I know that. I had assumed we moved to a 2 week cycle. (That was what I remember the normal period for WvW matches being. I might be wrong on that though.) I only mention this for two reasons:
1. To make people aware so that perhaps, in the future, such an imbalanced match up can be avoided.
2. To show my cool photos of the golems. They were cool, were they not? :P
Golems are always cool.
And matchups are a week long at the moment. They have also only just shifted to weekly, it was daily before. So this is only the first round of weekly matches, which is why much of the complaining about balance is somewhat premature.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
There are plenty of ways to design a game to support 24/7 WvW, where having 500 people awake at all times is not the most important factor in the game.
Having “500 people awake at all times” is only a factor when one server does and another doesn’t. And those matchups should be reduced by the server ranking system.
Please read up on the server ranking system.
I’ve read up on the system.
The NA server list as of 9/7 was this…..
“2132.171 Henge of Denravi
1952.644 Stormbluff Isle
1940.189 Eredon Terrace
1934.638 Jade Quarry
1729.114 Blackgate
1700.119 Isle of Janthir
1682.879 Sea of Sorrows
1646.364 Gate of Madness
1633.066 Crystal Desert
1564.007 Maguuma
1557.434 Fort Aspenwood
1528.095 Tarnished Coast
1521.522 Dragonbrand
1495.801 Sorrow’s Furnace
1475.709 Yak’s Bend
1453.539 Sanctum of Rall
1417.146 Ehmry Bay
1349.244 Darkhaven
1342.292 Anvil Rock
1153.872 Northern Shiverpeaks
1082.319 Borlis Pass
1079.313 Ferguson’s Crossing
917.602 Devona’s Rest
639.897 Kaineng”Which suggests to me that TC/Mag/Ft. Aspenwood should be paired. If there is something I am not understanding or if new info is now available, please let me know. Either way, with this system, unless the number of high participation servers is divisible by 3, then there will always be a crazy inequality in the competition as a high participation server will be paired with, at most, two low participation servers. (Which seems to be the case with TC/Mag/DB). I wish there was some way to balance this out.
Those rankings are being updated while matches are still running. When the current round ends then new matchups will be created based on the current rankings.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
If Anet wants “has 500 people awake 24/7” to be the single most important factor in WvW, then they should say it so that the rest of us can quit now.
Its been well documented that WvW was going to be 24×7 for some time now. Did you somehow think that 24×7 really translated to “only in your prime time”? I can assure you that many alliances well and truly understood what it meant and they recruited accordingly, even before the game was released. Funnily enough those same alliances are all top tier or close to it.
Please read up on the server ranking system.
I’ve already addressed server rankings in the original post, but I will repeat myself. THEY DO NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. Eventually and more than likely often, servers will be matched against night capping servers, thus the problem is still there. The entire “wait and see” approach does not work in MMO’s. Players want to know that devs understand the problem and are working on it.
How do you know what impact server rankings will have? If you are basing your statements on previous MMOs then which ones are they? I don’t recall any that have had this type of mechanism other than maybe DAoC.
The game wasn’t made for one side to have twice the population of the other side either. Leaving things the way they are and waiting for time and migration to fix the problem won’t help either. Nobody will want to move to low pop loser servers, as they will just constantly lose in wvw.
Do you know why its WvWvW instead of just WvW? Its because if 1 side starts to dominate then the other 2 can work together to overcome it. So yes, the game WAS made in anticipation of one side dominating.
The problem we have right now is the lack of any coordination between the weaker 2 sides. Once they do start coordinating (or at least stop attacking each other) then things start to get a bit better. If you doubt me then look at what is happening with the ETvsSoSvsIoJ matchup.
Except the game mechanics DO support 24/7 battles, just go talk to any of the top 4 US servers and ask them how much of an issue night capping really is.
The real problem here is invisible enemies. Give their algorithms time to match servers properly.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
I find it happens a lot with popular DEs too. Is latency likely to exacerbate the issue?
People are going to deal with it by quitting WvW.
By all means, make WvW hardcore 24/7 worldwide alliances like Eve Online and watch the playerbase top out at 500k max. Can you say niche game?
Or, investigate options for balancing off-peak capping like the Op has suggested.
I’ll take what’s behind door #2.
I’ll take door #3 – server rankings and no kneejerk reactions because people can’t handle losing a single match.
As for people quitting WvW, they’ll do that when a better organised server kicks their tails, regardless of population.
A queue denies people the ability to play. Being outnumbered means they can still play, they just need to play smarter.
Do you call being camped in your spawn point by a cluster of siege engines because the best your server can muster at your play time is 30 people? I do not.
Every other game has team population balancing, are you saying that if you join a bf3 server and saw 32 people on one side and 16 on the other you would thing “Man i am going to have to play super hard on this one by gum!” no you are going to think that the server needs to balance teams and find another one.
Really a dynamic population cap is the best solution to this problem. It may make the playing field a little more restricted for a small subset of players, but it will at least make it even.
How on earth is a bf3 game even closely related to WvW? You obviously read my apples vs oranges post and then came up with an example thats even worse.
It’s not okay to limit people’s playing by having a queue, but it’s okay to limit people’s playing by being outnumbered hopelessly.
Logic.
Apples vs Oranges.
A queue denies people the ability to play. Being outnumbered means they can still play, they just need to play smarter.
@Tzash and Elthurien,
I don’t want to completely restrict anyone from playing the game, however surely you would rather fight more people than NPCs, right? I mean why queue up for wvw if all you are going to mostly fight is a handful of players defending or guards and keep lords anyways? You don’t want there to be any type of closer competition at all? I really hope that isn’t the case. Since this an idea thread, come up with an alternate idea instead just saying things are fine.
Talking from a US server perspective here:
You seem to be under the assumption that there is zero competition in off peak times. Not true. You may wake up and find whole maps belonging to one side but that doesn’t mean that there was no contest. Even when my server has controlled everything there were still a decent number of opposition players running around.
Obviously in the current matchups things aren’t fine, but there are server rankings for a reason and next week should be a different story.
Its nice of you to acknowledge that off peak players have the same right as you to play, but you then make a suggestion to restrict their access. How is that fair?
WvW night capping/whining/unbalance can be solved with a fairly easy fix.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
Wait… why are people so stressed if they cant be bothered to go out of their way to do something about it rather than just moan?
Sadly this is typical of your average forum complainer (irrespective of MMO). If one server develops a winning strategy (yes, night capping is a perfectly valid strategy) then many people would rather complain about it rather than try and adopt it. Because adopting a winning strategy might actually take effort (!).
Its like the same old argument of PuGs vs pre-mades. Everyone knows that pre-mades will stomp PuGs the vast majority of the time, but people will still complain about it. Nothing stops them from forming their own pre-made but its just easier to run to the forums and whinge.
Every week in team sports we see come from behind wins. How often do you see losing teams give up and quit the field? Hiding scores panders to the lowest common denominator and quite frankly the people who will only play when you are winning are the ones you don’t want.
This again is a kneejerk reaction. Yes, this week’s matchups are pretty one-sided, but that is why there is a server ranking system. Next week’s matchups should be closer etc.
The daily gains and losses is a decent idea though, you could even chart the rise and fall of gains on an hourly basis (I would be real interested to see those stats).
I think it would be more productive to spread the actual pvp players out amongst the servers than to try and convince a large group of pve players that getting curb stomped repeatedly by organized pvp guilds is fun. Once the pvp players are spread more evenly then you can get non pvp players to come out and play when they will have actual experienced pvp players to help them.
The problem of course being that many pvp players just want to win so won’t willingly spread out. This is where the ranking system comes into play though.
You are correct in saying that having more troops in a war should be an advantage. However lets not forget this is a game based on a war scenario, and in any game one side having an advantage for whatever reason tends to eventually kill a game.
Which is why more games these days do 3 side PvP. If one side becomes dominant (as inevitably happens) then the weaker 2 sides can join up and hopefully overcome the bigger side. It doesn’t necessarily always happen that way, but the theory has been around since DAoC and many people still hold DAoC up as the beacon of RvR.
Its now 8pm where I am (GMT+8), Oceanic prime time and offpeak for the US. I look at the US server list and only 3 servers are medium – Devona’s Rest, Eredon Terrace and Kaineng. Every other server is High.
So tell me this, if all bar 3 servers are High pop in US offpeak hours then why are people complaining that they can’t field a night crew? You have the people! They are on your server! Go encourage them to play!
The population is high for the server but not necessarily high for WvW. You can’t encourage people to play WvW – nobody can encourage me to go play PvE or sPvP. You would understand this if you put yourself in others shoes – especially the shoes of people who don’t like PvP nor WvW.
I do understand it, I’ve been in those shoes myself before. And having been in those shoes I can tell you that a lot of people get turned off WvW (and PvP in general) because of the mindless zerg. Show them organised fighting and its a world of difference.
WvW night capping/whining/unbalance can be solved with a fairly easy fix.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
Wait, so now its all the off peak players’ fault?
When those off peak players come into the game and declare : “we don’t care for WvWvW balance, we want all to play on the same server”, yeah it is.
Now, if you tell me you are actually spread around correctly and the declaration I was replying to is just the work of a lunatic, well there isn’t much more to say. Balance isn’t something entirely in the hands of a small groups of players. Imbalance has multiple causes though.
Sorry, but what is “spread around correctly”? Are there some sort of rules on how many Oceanics should be on each server that I should know about? I know of a sizable Oceanic presence on at least 8 US servers. If thats not enough for you then I’m sorry but there simply isn’t enough of us to go around.
Herein lies the problem if the majority think the same way. Why? Because it puts the onus on someone else to fix the problem, whether it be ANet or the off peak players. If everyone wants someone else to fix things then nothing will ever get fixed.
The reality is that the top US alliances fixed their own problem in order to be competitive. If the people on a server aren’t willing to make an effort then they have noone but themselves to blame.
Update: 2 hours after my original post and the US server populations are still 3 medium and the rest high.
That is nice except you are doing the same thing. Putting the onus on someone else to fix the problem. The difference is the time I am able to play the game wvw is evenly populated (most servers reach their caps in the time period). So all I can do is recruit more people to fill up queues.
If the maps are evenly matched when you play then you have nothing to worry about. If the maps are not evenly matched and one side vastly outnumbers the opposition when you play then you are in a position to help change that and I am not. It really is that simple.
Actually I’m not putting the onus on anyone, as far as I’m concerned the fix is already place – server ranking. People are just not patient enough to let the ranking system sort out fairer matchups.
What I am trying to point out is that majority of servers do actually have the potential to fix their own off peak problems if they care to try. There are at least 4 US servers that already have, what is stopping the others from at least trying?
That have a queue during their “night-time”? or is it all pretty much queue free at night on the NA servers?
Everybody who seems to have a problem with nightcapping seems to think there are some servers with huge queues and then servers with none. Because we have no real information on queues, nobody can really complain. Maybe even HoD or VS have no queues at night?
I’m guessing you mean night-time as in off peak. The unofficial Oceanic servers like SoS and IoJ will see WvWvW queues on some maps during off peak.
I think VS is an EU server though.
Actually the real problem isn’t servers like SoS that can only night cap, its the ones that can hold their own during prime time and then night cap.
WvW night capping/whining/unbalance can be solved with a fairly easy fix.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
Are you saying that no matter what happens, Oceanic players will NOT make any attempt at balancing and they shouldn’t be penalized for it?
There’s two things that happen if you all regroup without restriction in a single server :
- the server you chose will become uninteresting to fight against thus whine will ensue
- you will not even get real WvWvW while you play because there’s no oppositionAs a result, I see your post as a population group that doesn’t want to make efforts to have a fair PvP environments and instead gets allowed to break the fun for all the other players while doing something that cannot even be called PvP in the first place.
Wait, so now its all the off peak players’ fault?
For a start the Oceanic playerbase is already spread out across a number of servers. In all of the top servers you will find Oceanic guilds. Do you know why? The US alliances actively recruited them.
On other servers like SoS, many US PvP guilds transferred off, claiming that Oceanics “ruin” a server and cause higher queue times for them. Which given the timezone difference is pretty silly.
I find it funny to blame one minority group for the night capping issue when most of the complainers haven’t even made an attempt to reach out to the off peak playerbase. Its always someone else’s fault isn’t it?
Because the night capping servers have a high pop, and so you would need to queue for hours “to be competitive”.
Actually SoS and IoJ are technically night capping servers because of their high Oceanic pop and if what Dethwar says is true then there is no queue during US prime time.
If you have no desire to transfer and help even out the playing field during your playtime there is not much I can do about it. I am not going to lose sleep trying to convince people playing in a different time slot that they want to wvw. I would think you might be interested in developing the competition when you play.
Herein lies the problem if the majority think the same way. Why? Because it puts the onus on someone else to fix the problem, whether it be ANet or the off peak players. If everyone wants someone else to fix things then nothing will ever get fixed.
The reality is that the top US alliances fixed their own problem in order to be competitive. If the people on a server aren’t willing to make an effort then they have noone but themselves to blame.
Update: 2 hours after my original post and the US server populations are still 3 medium and the rest high.
Sorry, to be specific i was talking about balancing the incoming points based on the current WvW population, not the server population.
The solution proposed by Xonal would not hinder anyone. It would be aimed at rewarding skilled and organized servers rather than rewarding a server for having more people online at certain times.
If you have less players than the opposition and you still take their garrison, why shouldn’t you be rewarded for it!?
If you out-number the opposition 4:1, do you really think you deserve all those points? After all it’s pretty much taking candy from a baby.
If all 3 have full WvW pops, then they should all receive the same points for capping.This looks fairer to me than the current system, as has nothing to do with what time-zone anyone is from, only how many players are currently in WvW at any given time.
Your supposedly fair system is also ripe for abuse. If a server gets a decent points lead then they just pull all their players out. The other team can take everything back but only get marginal reward for it.
Having more troops in a war is an advantage, its meant to be advantage. You said you want to reward organised servers, but then you suggest punishing servers that are able to organise more players to be on at a certain time. Its not fair, not in any way shape or form.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
4B. Arbitrary limits? There are already limits during prime time on how many can get into WvW. Why are you so touchy about applying a similar process to off-hours?
There are already limits during off peak too. My server has WvWvW queues during US off peak. You want to make those queues even longer just because we may get matched against a server who doesn’t feel like fielding a sizable team?
As usual people want solutions that only impacts someone else’s gaming experience.
Its now 8pm where I am (GMT+8), Oceanic prime time and offpeak for the US. I look at the US server list and only 3 servers are medium – Devona’s Rest, Eredon Terrace and Kaineng. Every other server is High.
So tell me this, if all bar 3 servers are High pop in US offpeak hours then why are people complaining that they can’t field a night crew? You have the people! They are on your server! Go encourage them to play!
Because the overall population of servers is irrelevant. You cannot force people to play wvw who do not want to. The relevant numbers are the people who actually queue up and play in wvw. That number is currently massively imbalanced several times a day. The question is do the people playing off peak hours want competition or do they just want to continue capping empty keeps and towers. The solution lies with the off peak hours wvw players spreading themselves out amongst the servers. Either that happens and we all have some good close matches or it doesn’t and we continue seeing ridiculous scores.
I play during NA primetime on a server that doesn’t have a queue when I log in. So nothing I can do will actually matter. That being said it really doesn’t matter to me either way. When I play the maps fill up and we have great fights all night long. If you can say the same then don’t worry about it. If you are on a server that is capping the entire map when you are online then you are part of the problem.
If almost all the servers have a high pop during off peak then they all have the potential to field decent sized off peak teams. Maybe people should try tapping that pool of potential WvWvW’rs instead of making assumptions and blaming ANet for all their woes.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
I just find it silly that it is population which is dictating who’s on top of the ladder. And I am not alone with this point of view. Being skilled and coordinated during your prime time, means zip zero if noone is online to protect your structures at other hours.
If population is dictating everything then why is Eredon Terrace (medium pop during US offpeak) ranked #4 and currently kicking the tail of 2 unofficial Oceanic servers (both high pop during US offpeak). These are facts, not conjecture.
And if you don’t like losing things during offpeak then get your own offpeak players to do something about it. 3 medium servers and the rest high during Oceanic prime time proves that almost everyone has a healthy offpeak pop. Again, these are facts not conjecture.
I play on low pop at night, not medium. I play on EU server. Btw, you tell me to do something about it. Exactly what do you want me to do to make people stay online during off hours?
You act like it is my fault that people are not online during those hours, and my responsibility to fix. You act like it is the players responsibility to fix the high pop vs low pop issue at some hours. ANet could provide mechanics which would fix it (dynamic pop limit), making it medium pop vs medium pop, without moving any players around between servers. As I wrote elsewhere, people don’t only leave WWW because they need sleep, but also because of having little to no chance of getting any points (catch-22). At this point the only outcome of the WWW is a bleeding wallet and close to zero rewards. Don’t blame the player for an unfair matchup system please.
Top alliances recruited off peak guilds, they didn’t beg ANet to fix it for them. The EU situation may very well be different but there are a heap of US players with the exact same complaint as you.
You also don’t seem to understand that the ranking system will ultimately pit similar servers against each other. It may be unfair now but will auto-correct itself. All dynamic pop caps do is punish off peak players.
Xonal’s solution would benefit every server and stop the never ending circle that we are all inevitably going to face, not to mention the possibility of many players becoming disillusioned and jumping ship, which nobody wants.
Sorry but Xonal’s solution is just another one of those that wants to hinder a server just because it happens to have a higher offpeak presence. Why should one server be penalised because another can’t/won’t field enough people? Current US offpeak populations is 3 medium and the rest high. Seems to be a motivational issue rather than population.
WvW night capping/whining/unbalance can be solved with a fairly easy fix.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
+1
Dynamic population limit will fix the unfairness of PvP. But will also leave some people out of PvP who would be in otherwise. (though it really isn’t PvP when you are just steamrolling everything, without any resistance.)
Just like queues keep people from ultra full servers out of WvWvW? Hmm, maybe it would be fair after all.
Queues kinda force prime time players to spread across all the servers. There’s no such mechanic for the night time players. Why?
This. A thousand times this.
Having a cap would force people to spread out among all servers and make things fair instead of all grouping on 2-3 servers and pwning everyone until Anet fixes their broken matchmaking.
Do you know why in every MMO for a long time the Oceanic community gets together to designate unofficial Oceanic servers? Its because we have a smaller playerbase so we consolidate into fewer servers to ensure we have people to play with.
Have you ever played on an MMO server with a low population? That is what it’d be like for Oceanics and other offpeak players if you forced us to spread out too thinly across all servers. Its a great idea for you but it completely bites for us.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
I just find it silly that it is population which is dictating who’s on top of the ladder. And I am not alone with this point of view. Being skilled and coordinated during your prime time, means zip zero if noone is online to protect your structures at other hours.
If population is dictating everything then why is Eredon Terrace (medium pop during US offpeak) ranked #4 and currently kicking the tail of 2 unofficial Oceanic servers (both high pop during US offpeak). These are facts, not conjecture.
And if you don’t like losing things during offpeak then get your own offpeak players to do something about it. 3 medium servers and the rest high during Oceanic prime time proves that almost everyone has a healthy offpeak pop. Again, these are facts not conjecture.
The unmitigated foolishness of asking for WvW to be balanced on what time of day you play.
in WvW
Posted by: Tzash.5748
I thought the OP was well thought out and quite intelligent as it correctly identifies the foolishness of people demanding changes because WvWvW isn’t going their way.
The simple fact is that in any matchup there can only be one winner. In any ladder there can only be one leader. If a server is stronger than you 24×7 then you will lose, get used to it. If you don’t like losing because of night capping then try and recruit your own night crew. Believe it or not there are plenty of people on your server during off peak hours. (Hint: all bar 3 US servers are currently High pop during US offpeak. One of those 3 servers is ranked 4th)
" for most people completely unrealistic times of the day"
should read:
" for Americans completely unrealistic times of the day"
Currently (Oceanic Prime Time)… All servers except 3 have either a high population or is Full. Your thoughts?
Ironically.. one of the least populated servers is Escalon Terrace.
“For most people (who happen to play in NA based timezones) are completely unrealistic times of the day.”
Would be most accurate, unless you’re willing to suggest that the majority of the playerbase in the NA worlds do not reside in these timezones. Even as a rebuttal, people within these timezones who do play at unrealistic hours are still going to be part of a minority.
I mentioned a few posts before that I’m an EU player. I’ll add that I am someone who can and has played at those unrealistic hours on EU worlds, and I’m still going to tell you it’s a problem.
EU’s situation is somewhat different to the US because while EU has a broad range of timezones its still contiguous. In the US situation Oceanic/Asian prime time is quite literaly opposite, not simply a few hours later.
I just don’t see how all the “solutions” that suggest punishing/hindering off peak play are fair. As the top US servers have already proven, the lack of a night crew is hardly an insurmountable problem. They even plugged that particular hole before game release. Current off peak US server populations also completely debunk the theory that most servers don’t have enough people on. I’d be curious to hear what the server pops are like in EU during offpeak.
" for most people completely unrealistic times of the day"
should read:
" for Americans completely unrealistic times of the day"
Currently (Oceanic Prime Time)… All servers except 3 have either a high population or is Full. Your thoughts?
Ironically.. one of the least populated servers is Eredon Terrace.
I thought ET’s pop was pretty ironic too considering it is currently pounding two unofficial Oceanic servers into the ground.