For the record I don’t play PU. Ranger and Guardian heal now easily outheal my damage output as a condi Mesmer.
In addition, Ranger got yet another nuke-bow upgrade.
This is what I meant when I said that Mesmer had been kneecapped.
Why is everyone whining about rangers? They haven’t been to a World Tournament Series in…EVER. Ranger has never been competitive in tournaments. ArenaNet should continue buffing rangers until that changes. Having a single profession be so subpar for so long is destroying ANet’s credibility in regards to their ability to actually balance their own game.
*Many of you have some sort of misinformation going on. Whether a class has been to tournament or not, won a world championship or not, or are in the best team comps or not are of 0 consequence. *
Most players will never touch those things. they will never play in one. Balance CAN NOT be decided on these things. It has to be looked at as a big picture with the AVERAGE PLAYER in mind.
Even dropping that line of argument, rangers are still pretty widely discriminated against and inferior in dungeons, which does affect most players, and they are still inferior in sPvP. Pets are still plagued by bugs and poor AI. These are problems that should have been fixed years ago.
For the record I don’t play PU. Ranger and Guardian heal now easily outheal my damage output as a condi Mesmer.
In addition, Ranger got yet another nuke-bow upgrade.
This is what I meant when I said that Mesmer had been kneecapped.
Why is everyone whining about rangers? They haven’t been to a World Tournament Series in…EVER. Ranger has never been competitive in tournaments. ArenaNet should continue buffing rangers until that changes. Having a single profession be so subpar for so long is destroying ANet’s credibility in regards to their ability to actually balance their own game.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
/FACEPALM
Tell us, that it’s not intended for ranger to be competitive in sPvP, whether you like it or not.
You’re as suming that the only way to be competitive in PvP is to stack boons.
Mesmers and thieves don’t need to stack boons. Warriors, guardians, necromancrs, elementalists, and engineers tend to stack boons to at least some extent in order to be competitive. Since rangers don’t have long term and/or spammable stealth and/or clones, they need to stack boons (or at least steal/corrupt them) in order to compete.
Still an assumption that the only way to be competitive is to stack boons, strip boons, or have broken mechanics like stealth.
It’s not an assumption, it’s an observation. I challenge you to find any exceptions to it.
It’s an observation of the current PvP meta game, but that doesn’t mean that the only way to be competitive is to do the things you mentioned. Just that those are the only roles that are competitive at this point in time, not that they will always be so which you assume.
The elite specs could easily change the meta in a way where those things you mentioned aren’t necessary and it could include things that the ranger can do well. Ie, tanky Druid that can burst heal, which doesn’t rely on boons.
Unless I’m mistaken, boons have always been the meta in PvP. If the ranger can stack boons, it might have a chance of actually being played in tournaments. If ANet were capable of making the ranger useful in PvP without stacking boons, they would have done it some time in the past three years. There is no reason for rangers to be incapable of stacking boons.
I hope that this gets a dev response, because they owe their ranger player base apologies, fixes, and open discussion.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
/FACEPALM
Tell us, that it’s not intended for ranger to be competitive in sPvP, whether you like it or not.
You’re as suming that the only way to be competitive in PvP is to stack boons.
Mesmers and thieves don’t need to stack boons. Warriors, guardians, necromancrs, elementalists, and engineers tend to stack boons to at least some extent in order to be competitive. Since rangers don’t have long term and/or spammable stealth and/or clones, they need to stack boons (or at least steal/corrupt them) in order to compete.
Still an assumption that the only way to be competitive is to stack boons, strip boons, or have broken mechanics like stealth.
It’s not an assumption, it’s an observation. I challenge you to find any exceptions to it.
nerf birds too
Their target tracking is ridiculous compared to all other pets, there needs to be a middle ground between near perfect 100% tracking and the lacking consistency of other pets.
Jumping over the ruins at the henge (on Niflhel) will cause any pet, even the bird, to run into a wall for thirty seconds straight. Besides, now that one type of pet actually tracks its target properly some of the time you want to nerf it? This type of thinking is why rangers haven’t been competitive at all, ever, in GW2: as soon as something rangers have actually works properly, people like you whine about it until ANet destroys it again.
It really isn’t OP. They sacrifice all forms of sustain for this DPS output, making them even more of a target than they already were.
But at any rate, what Ranger really needed, animation and mechanic fixing, not generalized buffs.
Agreed, most dedicated ranger players, I believe, aren’t happy at all with that kind of a buff. Rangers still won’t be really popular in esl tournis, I wager. We need something new, something unique to be at least nearly as useful as mesmers and thieves are, not some OPness; and not a healbot part, cause still most ranger players supposed their class to be connected with archery xD
They’re happy with the buff allowing them to finally share boons with the pet effectively, which should have been implemented from release. They don’t care about the quickness stacking beyond the fact that it caught the attention of Roy, who seems to play favorites with revenant.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
/FACEPALM
Tell us, that it’s not intended for ranger to be competitive in sPvP, whether you like it or not.
You’re as suming that the only way to be competitive in PvP is to stack boons.
Mesmers and thieves don’t need to stack boons. Warriors, guardians, necromancrs, elementalists, and engineers tend to stack boons to at least some extent in order to be competitive. Since rangers don’t have long term and/or spammable stealth and/or clones, they need to stack boons (or at least steal/corrupt them) in order to compete.
It fits into the category of a boon though. The definition of a boon: is a thing that is helpful or beneficial. How is stealth not beneficial to the caster??
If we were going by dictionary definitions, then all boons would be considered conditions, because ‘condition’ is not necessarily a negative thing.
Honestly, there shouldn’t be separate boons for ranger vs. pet at all. Any boon effect that hits pet gets redirected to the ranger, and the pet just gets the benefits of whichever boons the ranger has on them. That way, there would be no need to copy boons at all, and it would allow for boon removal to counterplay stacking better (because boon stripping the ranger once would remove the boons from the ranger, and remove the effects of them from the pet). Honestly, that’s how it should have been from the time the game was released.
I actually like fightning rangers now. Maybe the 100% Uptime of quickness is a bit much.
Although it feels like ranegrs still do meh damage with the quickness.
They do, because to get that quickness they have to sacrifice their offensive trait line entirely. Roy obviously has no idea how to balance rangers (of course, if he did know how to, there would have been at least one ranger in the World Tournament Series, so QED).
The problem is that Roy seems to assume that rangers are balanced without that boon stacking. Not even close. Rangers are not competitive in tPvP.
One day in and we’re already getting our buff gutted. It’s probably not the overall record, but sure does say something about their stance on Ranger’s place in the game in comparison to other professions like Ele and Mesmer.
“They are light armor and have low hp! you are medium armor and medium HP!!! " – Anet reasoning probably (not even kidding)
And that’s why they have ridiculous healing, cleanse, shields of various types, and some blind. They don’t need to be the only ones with that much protection as well. ANet can trot that excuse out as soon as rangers are stacking four to a team and winning tournaments. Or even competing in tournaments in the first place.
I think he’s talking about the length of time. We are still waiting for D/D ele to br brought down to balanced levels after it existing for a year (the June patch actually buffed it). The weaker boon stacking Ranger build is being nerfed after a day.
Speaking of Elementalists you really don’t see an uproar over the Burning Nerfs on the Elementalists do you? Know why? Because everyone knew it was a bit crazy and people been talking a long time about Burning and how Burning is going to get nerfed at some point after the stacking changes.
Why you people are surprised that your crazy permanent swiftness, protection, fury, quickness, etc is getting nerfed is beyond me. Did anyone really think it’s normal? Did you really think going, “Ooo Ooo The Elementalist is OP! Really! Elementalist!!!11” was going to work as some convincing argument?
There are 9 classes in this game (or will be soon). If anyone is really all that miserable with a class the only thing stopping you from playing a class you think you will enjoy is yourself. Take a break and go play an Elementalist until HOT releases. See if you feel the same about how OP they are afterwords.
Ranger isn’t my main (although it was in GW1). I’m getting kittened off because ArenaNet has a breathtaking set of double standards here. Elementalists are allowed to stack might, protection, and fury on top of insane sustain and condition removal, and this is allowed to continue unchecked for months. They put new rules into place for tournaments because people were stacking four elementalists on a five person team and winning.
Then, we have rangers: never tournament viable, certainly not tournament abused. They get a niche build that itself has too many easy counters to be competitive in serious high-level play. Yet, because of this gimmick, they’re going to gut the skill that might make rangers good enough to even be included in a tournament. Within 24 hours of its buff. With this being the case, they could at least deign to have a discussion with their player base on the matter.
From a PvP standpoint, every time rangers get close to being at the level of the other professions, they get brutally smacked back down again with no adequate explanation. At this point, it looks very much like ArenaNet is actively, intentionally preventing rangers from ever becoming tournament viable, and they owe their players a detailed explanation.
“The other OP builds were allowed for longer” lmao rangers that’s not a great argument against a minute and a half of quickness and fury.
The build has no condition cleanse, no offensive traits, uses pet swap on cooldown (hint: kill their pet just once and the build becomes completely useless at everything)…and still doesn’t do that much damage compared to meta builds like d/d cele ele. But hey, it’s a ranger doing that damage, and that isn’t allowed. Meanwhile, pet pathing is worthless and f2 still doesn’t work at all.
Again stop thinking about the celestial build that has been posted around. Think about other builds such as survival that don’t really have to give up much to get this quickness stuff. Furthermore, think about how quickness could be too good on something like Druid who could put out an area 5-6k heal faster with Tidal Surge and quickness.
No matter what, the ranger is still giving up their heal for the first 16-20 seconds of a fight if they open with quickness. Without this buff, rangers aren’t even competitive at all in high level PvP. Maybe the quickness could be toned down a bit…but every other aspect of that skill is still fine, and pets are still bugged as hell. Also, why should I stop comparing to cele ele? They let those stay out of control for months, yet want to gut rangers within a day of making them potentially competitive. People are complaining about long duration fury and protection, as if elementalists and revenants can’t already do that. I guess it’s only a problem if a bottom tier profession does it, because you feel entitled to an automatic win every time you face a ranger.
It’s not the perma regen or swiftness or fury, we could already do that. It’s having 100% uptime on certain boons that is not intended(stated by devs), and the fact that you can stack quickness out the wazoo. And again stop thinking you have to use your heal before fights start, you can play normally just as you did before the patch, use heal midfight, and wow stack quickness, so much strat.
When you want to make an argument as to why something shouldn’t be taken down a notch, you don’t want to compare it to D/D ele that is agreed to be too strong by the whole community.
What boons besides quickness are problematic? And as for cele ele, they left that out of control for months. This build, which is less effective than that, is going to be gutted within a week. They have a serious double standard going.
Quickness by itself is enough, but I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say prot.
Elementalist can spam prot, and they have better cleanse as well…I’m not seeing the problem there. It isn’t like ranger is being abused in tournaments. In fact, it’s not like ranger is even being used in tournaments. The first time that ranger might become tournament viable and ANet wants a nerf within 24 hours? From where I sit, they appear to be playing favorites…or least favorites, as it were.
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
And they have no rational justification for that position. Ranger has spent the last 3 years being kicked out of dungeon groups and left out of PvP tournaments. ArenaNet is either unwilling or unable to make the profession viable and competitive, and their refusal to discuss the problems with the player base is making things worse. They’re happy to engage in dialogue in the revenant forum, but for the profession that has needed it the most for three years straight? No, no time for that.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
Their ‘design’ for ranger has no rational justification. Their ranger balancing has kept it at the bottom of the heap for three years straight. Maybe when they make rangers strong enough even to be included in WTS, they’ll have a leg to stand on.
Bottom line: ANet should let rangers stack boons the way other professions do, just to see if that makes them competitive. It isn’t like any of the other attempted balances have worked worth a kitten .
“The other OP builds were allowed for longer” lmao rangers that’s not a great argument against a minute and a half of quickness and fury.
The build has no condition cleanse, no offensive traits, uses pet swap on cooldown (hint: kill their pet just once and the build becomes completely useless at everything)…and still doesn’t do that much damage compared to meta builds like d/d cele ele. But hey, it’s a ranger doing that damage, and that isn’t allowed. Meanwhile, pet pathing is worthless and f2 still doesn’t work at all.
Again stop thinking about the celestial build that has been posted around. Think about other builds such as survival that don’t really have to give up much to get this quickness stuff. Furthermore, think about how quickness could be too good on something like Druid who could put out an area 5-6k heal faster with Tidal Surge and quickness.
No matter what, the ranger is still giving up their heal for the first 16-20 seconds of a fight if they open with quickness. Without this buff, rangers aren’t even competitive at all in high level PvP. Maybe the quickness could be toned down a bit…but every other aspect of that skill is still fine, and pets are still bugged as hell. Also, why should I stop comparing to cele ele? They let those stay out of control for months, yet want to gut rangers within a day of making them potentially competitive. People are complaining about long duration fury and protection, as if elementalists and revenants can’t already do that. I guess it’s only a problem if a bottom tier profession does it, because you feel entitled to an automatic win every time you face a ranger.
It’s not the perma regen or swiftness or fury, we could already do that. It’s having 100% uptime on certain boons that is not intended(stated by devs), and the fact that you can stack quickness out the wazoo. And again stop thinking you have to use your heal before fights start, you can play normally just as you did before the patch, use heal midfight, and wow stack quickness, so much strat.
When you want to make an argument as to why something shouldn’t be taken down a notch, you don’t want to compare it to D/D ele that is agreed to be too strong by the whole community.
What boons besides quickness are problematic? And as for cele ele, they left that out of control for months. This build, which is less effective than that, is going to be gutted within a week. They have a serious double standard going.
1) If he uses f2 in reaction to you stealthing, there is going to be at least a 2 second window during which you can simply walk out of range. If the pet in question is a bird, f2 cannot be used at all, because he can’t see you to target you.
2) Again, only if you stay next to the pet for at least 2 seconds and only if the pet is not a bird. Try playing ranger and see how long the delay is between hitting f2 and your pet actually using it. It’s an enormous delay.
3) This is the only scenario you listed that is at all realistic. However, given the times involved, you’re still more likely to be hit by the taunt after backstab lands unless the ranger is blocking (and if the ranger is blocking, you’d probably be hammered out of taunt range by counterattack anyway).
1) You have to sit in SR for 4 seconds, and the taunt radius takes up exactly the entire field if it’s in the middle. this means either get taunted and revealed, or walk out of SR and get revealed. I actually feel like this is the most realistic scenario as 3 is a totally random chance that you get taunted without it being intentional.
2) Fair enough. Though the ranger could cast it as you cast CnD and the taunt would hit almost immediately and would work with birds.
3) Also fair. Still happens on occasion though.
1) The most common pet these days is a bird. Birds cannot use f2 when there is no target available. Plus, just try getting a pet to stand exactly where you want it to, especially if there isn’t a target there to send it after.
2) If you’re next to the pet only long enough to CnD, it’s extremely unlikely. The delay on f2 skills is crippling. They would have had to hit f2 a couple seconds before you CnD, and even then it’s a matter of luck. Most likely it would cancel if you stealthed when a bird has f2 queued, but a canine could pull it off.
3) Yes.
Honestly, the only real problem I see with the reveals is their duration. In my opinion, 8 seconds is too long.
Taunt happens as soon as you hit F2, there is no delay in the taunt.
Yes there is. It’s bugged. About half the time you press f2, nothing happens. Sometimes the taunt activates but the skill doesn’t. It’s really annoying.
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
And they have no rational justification for that position. Ranger has spent the last 3 years being kicked out of dungeon groups and left out of PvP tournaments. ArenaNet is either unwilling or unable to make the profession viable and competitive, and their refusal to discuss the problems with the player base is making things worse. They’re happy to engage in dialogue in the revenant forum, but for the profession that has needed it the most for three years straight? No, no time for that.
Actually f2 traits are bugged, not the skills themselves. They fixed go for the eyes, the taunt trait still needs the same treatment. The weakness trait seems to work fine.
It’s not the trait. Hitting the f2 button does not cause your pet to use the skill. I hit f2 and 5 seconds later the pet still had not used the skill. I rapidly hit the f2 button continuously for 5 seconds, and the pet still didn’t use it. I have gone through entire matches during which my f2 skill only successfully activated once or twice in total, and even then there was an enormous (~3-4 second) delay. This is unacceptable, especially if they’re planning on nerfing ranger.
“The other OP builds were allowed for longer” lmao rangers that’s not a great argument against a minute and a half of quickness and fury.
The build has no condition cleanse, no offensive traits, uses pet swap on cooldown (hint: kill their pet just once and the build becomes completely useless at everything)…and still doesn’t do that much damage compared to meta builds like d/d cele ele. But hey, it’s a ranger doing that damage, and that isn’t allowed. Meanwhile, pet pathing is worthless and f2 still doesn’t work at all.
Again stop thinking about the celestial build that has been posted around. Think about other builds such as survival that don’t really have to give up much to get this quickness stuff. Furthermore, think about how quickness could be too good on something like Druid who could put out an area 5-6k heal faster with Tidal Surge and quickness.
No matter what, the ranger is still giving up their heal for the first 16-20 seconds of a fight if they open with quickness. Without this buff, rangers aren’t even competitive at all in high level PvP. Maybe the quickness could be toned down a bit…but every other aspect of that skill is still fine, and pets are still bugged as hell. Also, why should I stop comparing to cele ele? They let those stay out of control for months, yet want to gut rangers within a day of making them potentially competitive. People are complaining about long duration fury and protection, as if elementalists and revenants can’t already do that. I guess it’s only a problem if a bottom tier profession does it, because you feel entitled to an automatic win every time you face a ranger.
They should just split it between PvE and PvP, or remove quickness and protection from the list of shared boons, since it’s pretty balanced and almost needed for ranger to be as viable as other classes in PvE.
It’s needed for rangers to be viable in high level PvP as well. Hell, I don’t know if it’s enough for rangers to be viable in high level PvP, especially since they broke pets again. Pets can’t path and they don’t use f2 skills at all. I don’t think ANet is justified in nerfing ranger right now…and I say this as someone whose main isn’t ranger.
Come on guys, I love rangers I play ranger only for 2+ years, i’m active on this forum only, no one can claim i’m anti ranger or biased against it(I was eve defendign the unblockble taunt). But this WHAO thing is way over the top to the level is not healthy to the profession. I actualy play WHAO on my native build and you realy dont need to build around it to abuse it, getting from a single heal(which si already very good) pream swiftness, rege, fury high amount of protection ,quickness is insane. I’m not even talking about the group synergie and the might stacking potential(and let me remind you that ranger was designed to not be efficient in stacking might). Its funny, if I would have told you WHAO cahnge – give 8 sec of quickness 8 sec protaction 8 sec fury etc.. all would have agreed its OP.
The problem is that we need a way to share boons with the pet. Besides, the quickness stacking build is a niche build which gives up its offensive trait lines, condition cleanse, stunbreak, heal for the first 16-20 seconds of the fight, and requires swapping pet on cooldown. Killing the pet will hard counter the build, conditions will hard counter the build, boon corrupt will hard counter the build, heavy burst will counter the build…meanwhile, elementalists can run around with near-permanent fury, protection, vigor, and massive might stacking without giving up condition cleanse. I doubt that this buff even makes rangers tournament viable, much less able to stack 4 to a team to win tournaments, yet they’re planning to gut it after only hours, without even a discussion. Double standard.
Or just revert WHaO to what it was before. I don’t understand why this change was made in the first place.
Sharing boons with your pet should have been implemented from the beginning. It’s a crippling deficiency in dungeons.
“The other OP builds were allowed for longer” lmao rangers that’s not a great argument against a minute and a half of quickness and fury.
The build has no condition cleanse, no offensive traits, uses pet swap on cooldown (hint: kill their pet just once and the build becomes completely useless at everything)…and still doesn’t do that much damage compared to meta builds like d/d cele ele. But hey, it’s a ranger doing that damage, and that isn’t allowed. Meanwhile, pet pathing is worthless and f2 still doesn’t work at all.
Edit: by the way, the ranger’s healing skill is on cooldown for the first 16-20 seconds of the fight; more than enough time to burst them down.
Hey all,
We’re aware of these issues and have a pair of fixes in progress!
Good job on the whao change btw. Definitely put ranger more in line with other classes. Pls don’t listen to people crying for nerfs already. None of the new builds seem too good and are mainly a result of people fighting golems and thinking high quickness uptime would be godmode. It isn’t.
Too late. They’re nerfing ranger back out of viability, without even giving us the courtesy of a dialogue on the matter. Meanwhile, elementalists and revenants can continue to stack more boons on an entire team than rangers can on just themselves, but that’s fine because double standard.
There is no defending this amount of quickness.
Stop. Its broken.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in dangerNot to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
There is only 1 thing you have to invest in, which I said in my post was WHaO:
-I said that it is an exchange of only 2 condi cleanse every 20 seconds. In exchange for the potential of 20s quickness, pretty fair trade.
-It is questionable to slot taunt now when it is no longer broken and can be blocked/evaded. Zephyrs Speed offers more utility both with WHaO and general might stacking as well as for something like ressing or stomping.
-you misunderstand the gameplay, you don’t “blow” your skills, you use them normally as you would in any situation previously except now you can just have the potential for 20s quickness.
-you don’t swap the pets on cooldown, you swap them once again when you need to do soAnd if you are playing normally you aren’t immediately healing after every pet swap and every time you use QZ, which means your point is moot.
No, again lets say you NEED to heal so you cast WHaO, a 1s cast, 3/4 of the way through the cast, you swap pets=8s Quickness. You’re not casting heal immediately after swapping pets, you are using heal normally when you need to, but also deciding to swap pets then in order to get 8s Quickness. This is broken in itself because this could potentially have 50% uptime.
Now you don’t have to heal every time after you use QZ, but if you do and then decide to combo it with pet swap as discussed above then you will get 20s Quickness. Essentially you will have almost 50% uptime on Quickness for the cd of QZ. If you do not decide to pop heal, then your Quickness uptime is still ridiculous because of the 6s you get from QZ.
So now you are back to arguing that you will occasionally blow cooldowns when you don’t need to in order to get the benefit of the skill…. That’s part of what makes it balanced….
I mean I don’t see where I argued to blow cds. What about swapping pets right before you heal is blowing a cd? What about healing after using a stunbreak/condi clear, IF you need to heal, is blowing a cd? If you take those as “blowing” cds then ok fine I’m not going to argue with that point anymore.
If they’re swapping pet on cooldown, you probably aren’t actually being hit by the pet most of the time (unless you have no idea how to kite, in which case learn that before making any posts regarding PvP balance). If it’s really a problem, burst their bird right when it comes out, and it will destroy their build entirely. Or stack conditions on them; they have no cleanse and chill will disrupt their build extremely harshly. This ranger build does similar damage to d/d cele ele, but (unlike cele) has no sustain and no condition cleanse. Like a mesmer, it seems overwhelming to someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing…but it isn’t actually overpowered.
By your logic, pets should never hit you if know how to kite, regardless of whether or not you swap pets. So I don’t see your point. Condi cleanse is a base problem with Ranger, stacking condis on Ranger is effective regardless.
If you’re kiting, it can take a good 10 seconds for the pet to get to you. If they’re swapping pets on cooldown (which this build calls for), that’s at least half the time that you don’t take any damage from the pet, and they don’t have the infamous taunt, either. Also, having LR and TU (which are both given up for this build, as I recall) together gives up to 1 condition removed every five seconds, on average, and taking SotP (why did they change the name of that skill?) instead of entangle gives up a little bit more. This build gives up a lot of condition removal, on a profession which already has subpar cleanse in the first place. In order to deal slightly better damage than a d/d cele ele. Think about that.
Comparing yourself to Druid is fruitless. Rangers received more than any other profession. Whereas everyone else received modified existing mechanics or perhaps an extra button to push, Druids got a whole new mechanic nearly on par with Deathshroud in its complexity (it doesn’t have the trait support ds does). This is on top of getting a 2 handed weapon and Glyphs as their utility. The rule we’d seen so far that seemed to say “2hander = tweaked existing mechanics, offhand = new additional mechanics” was thrown out the window. Though perhaps the stricter role the Druid elite spec has offsets this.
Excepting the Druid, The Daredevil mechanic effects aren’t necessarily bad compared to what everyone else received. With the exception of Druid everyone else who received a two-handed just got replaced mechanics (Virtues/Deathshroud). Thief’s dodge mechanic specialty is an oddball like the Engineer function Gyro – but I like that not every elite spec need deal directly with the profession mechanic.
The intrinsic issue with Daredevil is that it forces you to change your dodge. Not everyone wants to dodge further or be caught in extended animations. I personally found the dodges annoying because they were hard to utilize offensively while in melee and forced me out of range.
Having the Daredevil dodge be a slotted F3 or something would be better so that you can still utilize the normal shorter range dodge when you need it.
Rangers got that because they needed it. Ranger has never been relevant in dungeons or in tournament PvP. Thief, on the other hand, has always been relevant in PvP and usually relevant in dungeons. At its worst state ever, thief got MVP at WTS. At its best state ever, ranger was the only profession not present. Don’t even compare.
That being said, daredevil needs smoother animations and non-DD thief needs serious condition cleanse and more ways to mitigate AoE damage so that they can have better team fight presence and be better equipped to handle certain setups in 1v1.
I needs to be changed to have the same table as Fortifying Bond
Thats the most likely thing i see happening.
As much as I want Ranger to be a bit OP for a while at least, I think this is a good idea. I, however, think that the durations should be removed from FB. So the pet gets the full durations from you from “WHaO!” and FB and you gain the shorter duration boons (like FB is now) from the pet with “WHaO!”. That would be better balance imo.
What exactly do you think is OP about that build? Did you even play it? It really isn’t.
I don’t actually think it is that OP actually, it is very cheesy though. In order for it to work, you need to blow all your cooldowns, making you very weak. Although, the ability to stack so many powerful boons in such a short period of time makes it insanely powerful for 1v1s, except vs Necro which is a hard-counter to it. A decent chill duration and some conditions with a few well timed dodges and the Ranger will be down.
No, I have not played it. I will test it out when I get back from Antarctica in 6 weeks, but I don’t think it will be around that long. There will be too much QQ.If you start from above 90% health with Bark Skin, you’ll have 66% damage reduction for ages, after which you can pop “PM!” to take no damage, then SoS for 12s of no damage, at least 33% damage reduction, Quickness and most boons, Might stacked to 25. That’s massively powerful, whether or not you have to blow your CDs to do it.
Pretty sure it doesn’t affect SoS. The immunity to direct damage isn’t a boon.
You are right, SoS and PM are not boons, but that doesn’t prevent you having 12s combined invulnerability while also under the effects of Fury, 25 might, Protection, Regeneration, Swiftness and Quickness, self stacked, quickly. I just think that is a little too much, no matter what class it is on or how fragile it is. And it is fragile.
Unlike a cele ele, this has no kitten ed condition cleanse at all. Any condition build will tear through this like a sharp knife through a wet paper bag. Such a double standard; maybe at some point they could have some dialogue with us about what might or might not be overpowered? Considering they’ve screwed over ranger balance for the entire course of this game’s existence. Their ‘silent sledgehammer’ approach to balancing ranger is rage inducing.
No need to worry.
Roy confirmed Nerf:
https://twitter.com/roycronacher/status/649267788121411585
…And this is why ranger is never meta. A powerful ranger build with no cleanse? Nerf immediately. A powerful elementalist build with the best cleanse and sustain in the game? Meh, leave it be for a few months.
There is no defending this amount of quickness.
Stop. Its broken.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in dangerNot to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
There is only 1 thing you have to invest in, which I said in my post was WHaO:
-I said that it is an exchange of only 2 condi cleanse every 20 seconds. In exchange for the potential of 20s quickness, pretty fair trade.
-It is questionable to slot taunt now when it is no longer broken and can be blocked/evaded. Zephyrs Speed offers more utility both with WHaO and general might stacking as well as for something like ressing or stomping.
-you misunderstand the gameplay, you don’t “blow” your skills, you use them normally as you would in any situation previously except now you can just have the potential for 20s quickness.
-you don’t swap the pets on cooldown, you swap them once again when you need to do soAnd if you are playing normally you aren’t immediately healing after every pet swap and every time you use QZ, which means your point is moot.
No, again lets say you NEED to heal so you cast WHaO, a 1s cast, 3/4 of the way through the cast, you swap pets=8s Quickness. You’re not casting heal immediately after swapping pets, you are using heal normally when you need to, but also deciding to swap pets then in order to get 8s Quickness. This is broken in itself because this could potentially have 50% uptime.
Now you don’t have to heal every time after you use QZ, but if you do and then decide to combo it with pet swap as discussed above then you will get 20s Quickness. Essentially you will have almost 50% uptime on Quickness for the cd of QZ. If you do not decide to pop heal, then your Quickness uptime is still ridiculous because of the 6s you get from QZ.
So now you are back to arguing that you will occasionally blow cooldowns when you don’t need to in order to get the benefit of the skill…. That’s part of what makes it balanced….
I mean I don’t see where I argued to blow cds. What about swapping pets right before you heal is blowing a cd? What about healing after using a stunbreak/condi clear, IF you need to heal, is blowing a cd? If you take those as “blowing” cds then ok fine I’m not going to argue with that point anymore.
If they’re swapping pet on cooldown, you probably aren’t actually being hit by the pet most of the time (unless you have no idea how to kite, in which case learn that before making any posts regarding PvP balance). If it’s really a problem, burst their bird right when it comes out, and it will destroy their build entirely. Or stack conditions on them; they have no cleanse and chill will disrupt their build extremely harshly. This ranger build does similar damage to d/d cele ele, but (unlike cele) has no sustain and no condition cleanse. Like a mesmer, it seems overwhelming to someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing…but it isn’t actually overpowered.
MM does indeed require skill. You need to manage your livelyhood ((Your minions)) because if those little buggers go down you better hope to god the enemy team doesn’t notice. And any good Minion Master worth their salt uses those minions AND their abilities. An afk MM is easy noob bait for soemone running up to a point but if that MM doesn’t use his skills effectively against a skilled opponent that’s a dead MM.
Contrary to popular belief a MM is using quite a few minion abilities, they are not simply sitting on his hotbar. But in that same sense we could look at anyone using a full signetbuild as piggybacking off the passives, sure they don’t go into a fight with disposable pets and you may at times burn these signets. But they are still letting an ability sit passively on their bars and reaping the benefits.
Now it may be late, but I can’t off the top of my head think of an instant and automatic hardcounter/shutdown for any other class combo. Though I am sure if there is I will be corrected. MM to my knowledge was the only one that had two separate classes instantly shut him/her down and take them out of the fight for an extended period of time.
Lastly, do remember this was a bug that has been ingame since launch it was not a proper gameplay mechanic. Anything that transformed you would break your minions period, even tonics, hell the jumping pads at Tequatle break your minions. To a varying degree the mesmers clones rezzing hostile downstates would have been amazing to keep and completely broken against the mesmer, much like instantly popping an entire spec with a single ability was completely broken and is now being fixed.
Another hard counter is Diamond Skin vs. pure condition anything…but DS is ridiculous for that reason.
Ranger is actually kind of strong right now in a 1v1…of course, they can’t cleanse very well, and the gimmick people are complaining about here is terrible, but the profession itself…
And may I add, since when is a thrown dagger an “arcing projectile”?
The arc on a thrown dagger should be more noticeable than for an arrow…am I missing some context or something? This is how the physics has worked since the game came out. Haven’t you ever played ranger at all (for example)?
The Winged foot is the symbol of the Greek God Hermes. Hermes is considered the God of thieves. one of his characteristics was great speed.
The planet mercury and the Roman God Mercury is just a renaming of Hermes and the naming of Mercury the planet was based on its speed in orbit . The Element mercury was also called “quicksilver” due to its fluid nature and how it flowed again referencing Hermes.
^ This is the correct explanation though.
No it’s not. Nothing else is explained in terms of Greek mythology.
Please. The guardian symbol is an Ankh. Of course they reference mythologies.
Reaper’s looks like a thief.
Herald’s looks like a dragonhunter.
Why is dragonhunter’s one a shield ?? (an arrow with a chain would be more explicit)Daredevil’s one reminds me of the Goomba’s Shoe from Mario so I’m okay about that.
(just it doesn’t seem to fit well, since the Goomba’s Shoe is like the strongest thing ever in Mario so…. )
It’s not a shield! It’s an arrowhead! Already been addressed!
Projectile finishers have to hit their target directly to apply their effect (AoE effect from landing does not count).
Water and Light projectiles apply their effect to allies in 150 radius around their target.
I’m pretty sure I get regen on ranger longbow 1 through a water field even with no target selected, much less hit. I’ll test it out again to be sure.
Edit: It does. Hitting, even targeting an enemy is completely unnecessary to get regeneration from a projectile finisher. It’s definitely a bug.
(edited by Unholy Pillager.3791)
*They are in alphabetical order. *
are you telling me that the dragonhunter’s icon is a shield, and the herald’s icon (you know, the guys getting a shield) is a dragon?
:|
DH icon looks like an arrowtip, herald’s is Glint.
thief is definitely most unforgiving class with all its instant stealth, multiple stun breaks, vamp procs, shadow refuge, super mobility, overpowered res power. Kappa
- plain lie
- the most common build runs shs for stun break, which is 2 on 50 sec CD……. that is far from multiple
- vamp procs is not class mechanic; besides vamp runes are banned in tourneys
- use knockback on shadow refuge? it doesn’t make you invulnerable either
- good vertical moblility yes, they do not have best on land moblity tho
- cleave? duhTo be fair, some people run infiltrator’s signet as a utility for another stunbreak.
ok? it is still 30 sec CD and you lose teleport/passive ini regen if you use it
So? It’s not like the passive init regen makes a huge difference (and with the signet on cd, your init regen is identical to the version of the build with powder instead of infilsig). Plus, d/p has amazing mobility anyways, so the shadow step effect of infilsig isn’t needed. The entire reason you take that skill is for the stunbreak.
1) If he uses f2 in reaction to you stealthing, there is going to be at least a 2 second window during which you can simply walk out of range. If the pet in question is a bird, f2 cannot be used at all, because he can’t see you to target you.
2) Again, only if you stay next to the pet for at least 2 seconds and only if the pet is not a bird. Try playing ranger and see how long the delay is between hitting f2 and your pet actually using it. It’s an enormous delay.
3) This is the only scenario you listed that is at all realistic. However, given the times involved, you’re still more likely to be hit by the taunt after backstab lands unless the ranger is blocking (and if the ranger is blocking, you’d probably be hammered out of taunt range by counterattack anyway).
1) You have to sit in SR for 4 seconds, and the taunt radius takes up exactly the entire field if it’s in the middle. this means either get taunted and revealed, or walk out of SR and get revealed. I actually feel like this is the most realistic scenario as 3 is a totally random chance that you get taunted without it being intentional.
2) Fair enough. Though the ranger could cast it as you cast CnD and the taunt would hit almost immediately and would work with birds.
3) Also fair. Still happens on occasion though.
1) The most common pet these days is a bird. Birds cannot use f2 when there is no target available. Plus, just try getting a pet to stand exactly where you want it to, especially if there isn’t a target there to send it after.
2) If you’re next to the pet only long enough to CnD, it’s extremely unlikely. The delay on f2 skills is crippling. They would have had to hit f2 a couple seconds before you CnD, and even then it’s a matter of luck. Most likely it would cancel if you stealthed when a bird has f2 queued, but a canine could pull it off.
3) Yes.
Honestly, the only real problem I see with the reveals is their duration. In my opinion, 8 seconds is too long.
If the taunt hits you while you’re in stealth, you screwed up. Bad. You made a major mistake, and so you get punished for it, as with any major mistake. You would have had to stay within melee range of the pet when it (obviously) isn’t even following you.
Ok, so let’s consider some scenarios.
1) You’re low on hp while fighting a ranger and drop SR to try and reset. Naturally, his pet was right next to you before you stealthed, because it was attacking you. The ranger uses f2, and the taunt has 240 radius and can’t be dodged.
2) P/D, to ensure you land CnD, you use it on the rangers pet since you anticipate the ranger would evade/block it. This usually works well, but this time the ranger presses f2, and again, you are right next to the pet.
3) You jump in to +1 against a ranger to help your warrior friend. You approached in stealth and you are about to backstab the ranger, but the pet just used his f2 and since the pet was right next to the ranger (attacking the warrior in melee range), you get taunted.
It happens. Again, I agree it’s not that big of a deal compared to an engi who can reveal for 8s by flailing with a flamethrower, but it still doesn’t change the fact that taunt can work as a reveal. I never said it was op or that it even happens often, but it can happen and it’s something I have to watch for as many rangers run that trait.
1) If he uses f2 in reaction to you stealthing, there is going to be at least a 2 second window during which you can simply walk out of range. If the pet in question is a bird, f2 cannot be used at all, because he can’t see you to target you.
2) Again, only if you stay next to the pet for at least 2 seconds and only if the pet is not a bird. Try playing ranger and see how long the delay is between hitting f2 and your pet actually using it. It’s an enormous delay.
3) This is the only scenario you listed that is at all realistic. However, given the times involved, you’re still more likely to be hit by the taunt after backstab lands unless the ranger is blocking (and if the ranger is blocking, you’d probably be hammered out of taunt range by counterattack anyway).
thief is definitely most unforgiving class with all its instant stealth, multiple stun breaks, vamp procs, shadow refuge, super mobility, overpowered res power. Kappa
- plain lie
- the most common build runs shs for stun break, which is 2 on 50 sec CD……. that is far from multiple
- vamp procs is not class mechanic; besides vamp runes are banned in tourneys
- use knockback on shadow refuge? it doesn’t make you invulnerable either
- good vertical moblility yes, they do not have best on land moblity tho
- cleave? duh
To be fair, some people run infiltrator’s signet as a utility for another stunbreak.
’Ranger taunt isn’t close to being a real problem, because pets can’t be told to go to a specific place. ’
try ‘Guard’ utility
Yeah, I’m going to take an otherwise inefficient and inferior utility just on the off chance that I might have be able to use it to direct my pet to where I believe a stealthed thief to be…not that they’ll stay there if the pet is moving toward them. Oh, and this entire discussion is academic for birds, because they can’t use their f2 without a target selected, and thus cannot possibly taunt a thief in stealth (unless that thief is standing next to an unstealthed ally with an adjacent pet).
I see where you’re coming from, but you’re exaggerating things considerably to try to make a point. Ranger taunt isn’t close to being a real problem, because pets can’t be told to go to a specific place. It has a tiny range, so to be hit by it you would have to be right next to the pet. Not only that, the ranger would have to get extremely lucky: ranger f2 takes 5 seconds to activate many times, and sometimes it never actually gets activated. I have hit f2 (actually, the button that I’ve assigned for it; my laptop’s f-buttons are weird so I don’t use them) repeatedly, rapidly, for several seconds, only to have my pet fail to use it at all, much less in a reasonable time frame. Pets suck. Oh, and if you jump over some broken terrain (such as the rubble near the henge point in Niflheim) the pet will get stuck most of the time, forcing a swap (and resulting 20 second cooldown).
The engineer has a utility skill that reveals…but nobody uses that. Ever. They have a trait that does it, but it competes with streamlined kits, so few players use it (also, apparently it’s bugged). And they’re going to get a terrible elite skill with a reveal toolbelt component. And nobody is going to use that, either, because we already have 3 elite skills that are strong in both toolbar and toolbelt components, and have greater flexibility in terms of what they’re useful against. I agree that forced reveal durations should be reduced, but until revenant comes it will never be a serious problem in sPvP. WvW, where you can switch your skills and build (and food) based on an opponent in the distance whom you’re planning to attack, is always going to have these sorts of problems…and not just for stealthy professions.
I’m not exaggerating. If taunt hits it’s also basically a reveal. It happens, sometimes even without the ranger intending it (i.e. they’re fighting someone else and you get caught be it by chance). It may not be common, and it’s definitely not as much of a problem as engi or rev, but my statement wasn’t an exaggeration.
As for “WvW…is always going to have these sorts of problems…and not just for stealthy professions” I disagree. As a thief, I can’t swap one trait to completely shut down a necro for example. Sure, maybe I can change my build to be more viable vs certain things, but that’s different.
If the taunt hits you while you’re in stealth, you screwed up. Bad. You made a major mistake, and so you get punished for it, as with any major mistake. You would have had to stay within melee range of the pet when it (obviously) isn’t even following you.
Not even remotely true. Perma swiftness isn’t nearly as much mobility as infiltrator’s arrow. Stealth gyro is terrible; the gyro itself is visible and very fragile, and you have to move extremely slowly to stay in its range. Oh, and nobody is actually going to take it, because rampage, mortar and supply drop are all much better than pseudo-stealth that gimps your movespeed.
I know thieves are in a bad place. However, I’m sick of that inspiring so many of them to make claims which are blatantly false. Making claims that are so obviously false makes people mistrust everything else you say, even the things that are true.
Zodryn: fewer than half the professions in the game have any reveal, and of those only revenant is a serious problem. However, daredevil is intended to make low-stealth thief viable…which makes this entire line of discussion (forced reveal) less urgent.
While thief is not my main, I do play it far more often than I play most professions. The main problems that I’ve encountered recently are twofold: thieves need better condition removal. They needed better condition removal months ago, but with burning as it is now the need is quite desperate. Second, they need better active damage mitigation. In a team fight in which the opposing team has multiple players with strong AoE presence, the thief can be prevented from contributing at all merely by the random mashing of buttons.
The only profession at all in a position to replace a thief in PvP is the mesmer. Rangers are desperately trying to (because they haven’t had a slot in high level PvP at all, ever) but aren’t even in the same league as thieves when it comes to mobility and stealth. The same holds true for engineers.
The point isn’t whether engi has better stealth than thief, but the fact that as the “masters of stealth” we are having our goodies given away to other classes. We don’t even have a stealth elite, but engineers and mesmers do. Even if the other classes never use stealth in any meta builds, it still makes us feel like our role is being given to others when we are already hurting as a class (especially true of mesmer).
Also, engi has liberal amounts of dangerous reveal, not just rev. Ranger also has taunt, which is functionally a reveal. Yes some classes don’t have it, but the odds of not running into those classes that do when roaming or playing sPvP is low. Even now I’ve run into problems in WvW where I am trying to stealth to either assassinate an outlier or escape a small group and some engi decides to swap traits so he can completely screw me over with 8s reveal. I shouldn’t be forced to buy kitten expansion so that I have an alternative (which I could have had previously before the acro gutting).
The stealth we have needs lower cooldowns or longer duration when traited, and we need some way to deal with reveal. Otherwise, thieves really don’t qualify as the masters of stealth anymore.
I see where you’re coming from, but you’re exaggerating things considerably to try to make a point. Ranger taunt isn’t close to being a real problem, because pets can’t be told to go to a specific place. It has a tiny range, so to be hit by it you would have to be right next to the pet. Not only that, the ranger would have to get extremely lucky: ranger f2 takes 5 seconds to activate many times, and sometimes it never actually gets activated. I have hit f2 (actually, the button that I’ve assigned for it; my laptop’s f-buttons are weird so I don’t use them) repeatedly, rapidly, for several seconds, only to have my pet fail to use it at all, much less in a reasonable time frame. Pets suck. Oh, and if you jump over some broken terrain (such as the rubble near the henge point in Niflheim) the pet will get stuck most of the time, forcing a swap (and resulting 20 second cooldown).
The engineer has a utility skill that reveals…but nobody uses that. Ever. They have a trait that does it, but it competes with streamlined kits, so few players use it (also, apparently it’s bugged). And they’re going to get a terrible elite skill with a reveal toolbelt component. And nobody is going to use that, either, because we already have 3 elite skills that are strong in both toolbar and toolbelt components, and have greater flexibility in terms of what they’re useful against. I agree that forced reveal durations should be reduced, but until revenant comes it will never be a serious problem in sPvP. WvW, where you can switch your skills and build (and food) based on an opponent in the distance whom you’re planning to attack, is always going to have these sorts of problems…and not just for stealthy professions.
…
You can’t argue with thieves who don’t realise, that other classes apart from thieves suffer from lack of diversity.
…
http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki
Pop each profession open and count.
Thieves have two builds in the top category, which is as good as most professions. Honestly, many ranger players would kill to have a build in the ‘meta’ category.
Not even remotely true. Perma swiftness isn’t nearly as much mobility as infiltrator’s arrow. Stealth gyro is terrible; the gyro itself is visible and very fragile, and you have to move extremely slowly to stay in its range. Oh, and nobody is actually going to take it, because rampage, mortar and supply drop are all much better than pseudo-stealth that gimps your movespeed.
I know thieves are in a bad place. However, I’m sick of that inspiring so many of them to make claims which are blatantly false. Making claims that are so obviously false makes people mistrust everything else you say, even the things that are true.
Zodryn: fewer than half the professions in the game have any reveal, and of those only revenant is a serious problem. However, daredevil is intended to make low-stealth thief viable…which makes this entire line of discussion (forced reveal) less urgent.
While thief is not my main, I do play it far more often than I play most professions. The main problems that I’ve encountered recently are twofold: thieves need better condition removal. They needed better condition removal months ago, but with burning as it is now the need is quite desperate. Second, they need better active damage mitigation. In a team fight in which the opposing team has multiple players with strong AoE presence, the thief can be prevented from contributing at all merely by the random mashing of buttons.
The only profession at all in a position to replace a thief in PvP is the mesmer. Rangers are desperately trying to (because they haven’t had a slot in high level PvP at all, ever) but aren’t even in the same league as thieves when it comes to mobility and stealth. The same holds true for engineers.
Here’s the thing though. If you look at something like protection that reduces all incoming damage by 33%, you’re basically ignoring every 3rd hit. This would mean that you would have to dodge every 3rd hit to be as effective as protection. The other 2 low health tier classes have anple access to protection or rather continuous heals and blocks. Even with our high dodge rate with the old FG, that just put out evasive capabilities on par with protection. They should have stripped out the damage buffs from the line but left the defensive traits alone, requiring real choice when making builds.
So overall, I don’t agree that they can’t balance around not getting hit. Yes, it’s a little frustrating to fight against, but when it only takes 2-3 solid hits to down a thief, it’s fine.
I partially agree, but in practical terms you don’t actually need to dodge even 1 out of 3 attacks to get 33% damage reduction. Eating a few 1k auto attacks but dodging the 8k burst is a net gain compared to protection.
I think that Druid will be useful in PvP…remember, you still have two whole trait lines for damage. After all, it can just replace wilderness survival in a power based build, and you’ll have the same damage as before, while being better at group support and tougher to bring down.