Guild Wars 2

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

You got a whole minute to change your build. That is more than enough imo.

It is, but things were much easier in Guild Wars 1 when you could just load a saved build and go.

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

…You are not allowed to use d/p…

Aaaaand there’s your problem. Yes, we know that thieves are sorely lacking options right now. So are elementalists and necromancers. ANet has said that they’re trying to fix that, so be patient.

Elxdark.9702:

thief state atm is garbage, you can only play d/p sa stealth bot spam, running around the map and waiting for an ally to res.

While thief can do the +1 and decaps it will meta, no matter what build but it will be meta just for those both abilities.

Before the patch you could at least play s/d and do as well as d/p but now is either you play d/p sa or go kitten yoursefl because you will be rather useless.

ahh miss the days when you could choose between s/d, d/p and s/p.

And that’s exactly what they’re doing with daredevil. Except for s/p, because that’s too simple mechanically to be good in PvP (i.e. if they made it powerful enough, complete novices would be too strong with it, because of pistol whip). Basically, daredevil brings back pre-nerf acrobatics, which makes s/d viable again, and they are buffing p/p somewhat (although, like with s/p, it’s too simple mechanically for PvP).

Dirame.8521:

Voramoz.6790:

Thieves got a remix of the acrobatics trait line…
Engineer got a 30 second stomp rez bot…

Garbage.

I’m pretty sure your mind will change when all the crazy sick plays come out using the garbage rez bot.

If it goes down in two hits the way every other engineer AI device does, I doubt that those plays will actually happen.

wolfyrik.2017:

That’s not what I’m saying at all. You’ve completely misunderstood the point. What I’m saying is that each type of magic is it’s own style, it’s own aesthetic. I haven’t once denied that people have the ability to learn, infact my first example describes an aztec going to japan. This is a game, not real life and being a game we expect to see certain features in the characters. Stories and games don’t work like real life, we need distinct groups so that we can better ideintify distinct ideas.

As I said, I don’t play a Necro so that I can use Elemental magic. That’s not the same as saying that some real life version of a necro couldn’t learn elemental magic. Nowhere near what I’m saying. The problem is that at the point the necro starts using elemental magic instead of Necormancy, it’s an elementalist, because this is a game with identifiable, distinct ideas.

Druids use Nature magic, Celestials use celestial power.

No basis in rataionality or fact? What are you even yammering about? this is a game. Not reality, not fact. I never said that “anything to do with stars” that’s a ridiculous straw-man you’ve invented with no basis in rationality or fact.

Rationality is the conformity of structure within a belief or narrative. If somemthing conflicts with it’s established, known structure it becomes irrational. In the case of Druid and GW2 we have a clear established idea of structure surrounding nature magic. The ranger is a prime example of it, with the Spirit utilities which harken back to the GW1 nature magic lore. We have nothing about druids using celestial power. Celestials use Celestial powers. These are a seperate, specific group. Just as Destroyers don’t use plant magic and Risen aren’t made of Ice. Sure You could make up an excuse that a necromancer could learn Elemental magic, but in this game in order for it to have any weight, you’d have to make an elementalist, then RP it as a necro. Because it’s a game. In this game druids use nature magic. In this game, Celestial magic is named specifically, it is it’s own unique, specific school of magic belonging specifically to celestial magic users, based specifically in Cantha. That’s what you’re calling assumption? Specifically stated game lore? You have a strange idea about what the word ‘assumption’ means and even weaker grasp of what ‘rationality’ and ‘fact’ mean.

This new celestial form is a contradiction conflicting with the previously established narrative. It is by very definition; irrational.

Another good example of something that isn’t rational is a person defending a game, a work of fiction, from valid criticism about breaking it’s own established narrative, by attacking the critic as irrational.

It’s a game White-knight. Get a grip.

That’s your problem: you believe that Druids have firmly established lore. They don’t. We don’t know a kitten thing about Druid magic, and your assumption that it has anything to do with a Ranger’s Nature Magic is just that: an assumption.

Amante.8109:

Jana.6831:

So? That’s because of the classes’ mechanics, you can buff all you want, still doesn’t change the mechanics how many times do I need to repeat this?

Not Thief mechanics, Shortbow #5. Just Shortbow #5.

Remove that and Thieves disappear from every competitive team overnight.

Which does not change the fact that thieves are competitive, while rangers are not. Nor does it have anything to do with high-end dungeon running, where thieves are welcome while rangers are not.

Engineers got plenty. You could make the argument that the “elite mechanic” itself (the function gyro) is a bit underwhelming on its, but the total package is quite good.

Not something you can say about Daredevil.

I would make the argument that thieves got better utility skills than engineers did with elite specializations. Gyros are a fusion of spirit weapons and turrets…which are both completely useless. It’s even worse than that, though, because the engineer’s weapon swap mechanic takes up utility slots, making those even more cramped for engineers than for other professions.

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Oh, you’re still trying to beat them using d/d I take it? Bad idea. Again, you lose out on gap closing, blinds and interrupts. I usually don’t have too much difficulty when facing them using d/p, although they have gotten tougher recently.

So what? rangers have gotten tougher or rangers are so poor they need a buff?

They used to need a buff, but I think they’re in a decent place right now…at least as far as 1v1s are concerned. They can’t bring as much group support to the table as another profession, even if that other prof is as good at 1v1s as the ranger is.

Honestly, the major issue with thief right now is condition cleanse. With a little bit of that they’d be fine.

Then why do you say rangers have got it worse than thieves?
And no, nearly all classes can hit harder than thief, just that thief has got no defense.
You can only dodge that often.

Thieves have a permanent place in PvP tournaments, and always have. Rangers have no place in PvP tournaments, and never did. The same holds true in dungeons: dungeon groups don’t kick people just for playing thief, but they do kick people just for playing ranger. How many times do I need to repeat this?

wolfyrik.2017:

We know that the druids went into the jungle and become spirits, that were like oakhearts. At what point did they get to cantha and start practicing a totally different type of magic? It makes no sense. That’s like saying maybe the aztecs weren’t all sun-worshippers, some of them could have gone to visit Japan, therfor we’d be ok to design a new aztec that wears a kabuto, fights with a katana and drinks sake.

Sure it could have happened, but it’d would still look out of place. Druids used druid magic, that’s why they were druids. If they started using canthan magic, they’re not druids anymore, they’re canthan spirit users. If this class is using celestial, then it’s a celestial. If it’s a druid, it should use druid magic.

I don’t play on my necromancer because I want to be able to juggle the elements of fire, air earth and water, so why on earth would I play a druid, so that I can use canthan celestial power?

No, you’re saying that “because Europeans used the wheel, the Chinese could not have.” The study of astronomy is not limited to just one continent. Thus, it is unlikely that discovery of the celestial realm would be limited to Cantha. In fact, in real life, every culture, across the entire world, studied astronomy extensively. Believing that anything tied to the stars and planets must be Canthan is a ridiculous assumption with no basis in rationality or fact.

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Oh, you’re still trying to beat them using d/d I take it? Bad idea. Again, you lose out on gap closing, blinds and interrupts. I usually don’t have too much difficulty when facing them using d/p, although they have gotten tougher recently.

So what? rangers have gotten tougher or rangers are so poor they need a buff?

They used to need a buff, but I think they’re in a decent place right now…at least as far as 1v1s are concerned. They can’t bring as much group support to the table as another profession, even if that other prof is as good at 1v1s as the ranger is.

Honestly, the major issue with thief right now is condition cleanse. With a little bit of that they’d be fine.

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

WvW is 1/3 of the game, and even there staff elementalists and well necromancers are more desirable in zergs. I’m really not sure about roaming. However, on top of that rangers aren’t welcome and have never been welcome in meta dungeon groups. They are pretty strong in open-world PvE, but that just happens to be the least important aspect of the game; everyone does fine there. They were the only class not present at the last World Tournament Series. The. Only. One. That right there tells you their PvP viability: pros would rather stack two warriors (who are, themselves, considered weak right now) than take a ranger.

I guess what has been and what is buffed for rangers is their personal survival and not group play, I face them while roaming.
So make a thread in the ranger forum and demand more group play utilities? fine by me.
And I already spoke about pvp, maybe pvp and rangers just don’t work together. You can also demand that anet redesigns pvp so it would fit ranged classes more or tell every ranger who’s into pvp to only play melee – I don’t care, just from my personal roaming wvw experience: rangers don’t need a buff.

Oh, you’re still trying to beat them using d/d I take it? Bad idea. Again, you lose out on gap closing, blinds and interrupts. I usually don’t have too much difficulty when facing them using d/p, although they have gotten tougher recently.

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Edit: But seriously, don’t compare yourselves to rangers here. At its worst ever, thief got MVP at the WTS, while ranger was the only profession not played. Thief has had a place in high-end dungeons and PvP since the game started, while rangers have never been in the meta. Rangers needed something like Druid far more desperately than any other profession in the game. Hopefully it will give them a place in dungeons, raids and tourneys…because they’ve been waiting for a long time.

Rangers are really strong right now. I have no idea of pvp, maybe they just don’t fit into the scheme wheras thieves can always stealh (mesmers do it better). Maybe pvp just isn’t build for rangers, but that doesn’t mean they need buff after buff cause I have to face them in wvw as well, and believe me; they’re doing good in wvw.

WvW is 1/3 of the game, and even there staff elementalists and well necromancers are more desirable in zergs. I’m really not sure about roaming. However, on top of that rangers aren’t welcome and have never been welcome in meta dungeon groups. They are pretty strong in open-world PvE, but that just happens to be the least important aspect of the game; everyone does fine there. They were the only class not present at the last World Tournament Series. The. Only. One. That right there tells you their PvP viability: pros would rather stack two warriors (who are, themselves, considered weak right now) than take a ranger.

wolfyrik.2017:

Ironwill.5389:

I think Anet was going for a slightly different slant on the nature theme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FpY2KQbeQ0

there’s tonnes of lore that could support a nature based class and a celestial based class… I think they were drawing on the GW1 Factions nature/spirit model as their inspiration (come on.. the Revenant has Shiro!)

You guys are missing the obvious attempt to shoehorn Canthan lore into the game (aka… cantha confirmed..)

That doesn’t make any sense, tho either. Druids were a different group from the canthan celestials. If it is supposedto be celestial based then this isn’t a druid. It’s a canthan Weh no su.

It’s like creating an elite spec for thief which uses a greatsword, wears a tartan kilt and runs into battle with shouts as a new utility and an Elite skill called “stitch this, pal!” then naming the spec “Samurai”.

You have no idea whether or not the Druids tapped into the celestial realm. You know that the Canthans tapped into it, but the Druids are a complete mystery at this point. They may have discovered it independently, or it may have been introduced to them by one of their number who had been to Cantha…we have no way of knowing.

Frightlight.3796:

My engi elite got a drone thing with a 30 sec cd that can only be used to rez 1 person or stomp 1 person I guess that’s pretty cool.

Don’t forget that the drone will get cleaved down in about 2 auto attacks. Because counterplay.

Edit: But seriously, don’t compare yourselves to rangers here. At its worst ever, thief got MVP at the WTS, while ranger was the only profession not played. Thief has had a place in high-end dungeons and PvP since the game started, while rangers have never been in the meta. Rangers needed something like Druid far more desperately than any other profession in the game. Hopefully it will give them a place in dungeons, raids and tourneys…because they’ve been waiting for a long time.

Maybe the reason that rangers get the best elite specialization is because they haven’t been in the meta anywhere, ever, for the entire three years that Guild Wars 2 has been out. Thieves may be at their weakest ever, but they still get into PvP tourneys and high end dungeon groups with no difficulty. That is more than can be said of rangers.

However, I will say that the condition meta is far too harsh on thieves, and that Revenant’s reveal is too strong (Engineer reveals don’t matter, because almost nobody’s going to use them). I honestly don’t think that thieves will be in a bad place after HoT releases. Getting a buffed version of (pre-nerf) acrobatics opens up some powerful options.

Well, we got stability, might stacking, and a hammer to get around the completely absurd amounts of projectile hate that they’re cramming into the game. Gyros may as well not exist; why can’t they actually listen?

asweknowit.4798:

I, along with many others, expected a plant based nature druid from what was shown to us at the initial expansion announcement. While well aware design changes happen, I can’t help but be very disappointed by the change in thematic direction this elite specialization took. All of the current mechanics could have been implemented within the thematic framework originally presented

Simply disappointed

Honestly, I don’t mind the theme. In real life, nature often had a strong astronomy component. Stars were used to track seasons, which heavily influenced animal behavior and plant growth. I’m more concerned with their emphasis on healing. Dedicated group healing has no place in the game as it is now, so from a PvE standpoint, Druid’s only hope is that HoT PvE content turns every part of the last three years’ meta on its head. I’m not exactly confident that that will happen.

Kailee.8790:

Agree with Chrispy, so many threads merged in here that its so derailed that the japan bullet train is towing a steam powered locomotive in georgia while somehow being IN A WHOLE FRICKEN ’NOTHER WORLD!

The merge everything that has the word “druid” in it IS NOT WORKING… STAHP MERGING

At least they’re no longer locking every thread that might have criticism in it…not that that isn’t a rather dim ‘bright side’ to look on.

Aomine.5012:

idontnoso.9850:

Heavy:
Healing Class: Revenant
Support Class: Guardian
Kinda Support: Warrior

Medium:
Healing Class: Ranger (druid)
Support Class: Engineer
Kinda Support: Thief

Light:
Healing Class: Elementalist
Support Class: Necro/Elementalist
Kinda Support: Mesmer

Laughed at this part.

Do you really know classes well enough to say things like these?

Heavy:
Warrior: Main offensive support class + partial healing support (shout)
Guardian: Main defensive support class + partial healing support
Revenant: Can’t comment yet because the design is not finalized.

Medium:
Ranger: Sub-par offensive support + potentially healing support in the future.
Engineer: Main offensive support + partial healing support (Heal turret spam)
Thief: Utility support

Light:
Elementalist: Main offensive support + main healing support + some utility support
Mesmer: Utility support
Necro: Sub-par defensive support and sub-par healing support.

Using other classes’ example to justify ranger being the main healer doesn’t make sense because there’s not much of a pattern in all tier of classes to begin with.

Mostly true, but engineers have poor support compared to most support professions. They just have insane DPS if rotated perfectly with zerker or sinister gear. However, they still tend to lose out in dungeon slots because they can’t bring ice bows.

As for GW druid, we have no idea whether or not they had any celestial connection. All we know is that they were an order that went into the Maguuma Jungle and became its protectors, eventually giving up their physical forms. That’s it. There were some celestial beings in Factions, but we don’t know if they had any connection to the Druids or not. If anything critics should be asking for clarification, instead of confidently asserting that there is no connection.

Iozeph.5617:

So are Druids going to be given the ability to blood sacrifice a party member, or a baby even, for a short duration boon during combat?

Say, a five-eight second channeled elite skill(after the fashion of the old guardian tomes) that summons an altar upon which any friendly player or NPC within range has a stone knife thrust into its chest by the Druid in order to create a field in the form of a slowly spreading pool of blood around them. Players standing in the pool receive the boon.

I’d be all for that -naysayers be kitten ed- you know… Seeing as we’re all so obsessed with verisimilitude here.

The whole human sacrifice thing was a fabrication by Caesar to garner support for his genocide in Gaul. Sorry to burst your bubble, but animal sacrifice is as close as you can get, and everyone did that.

Did they really just throw the constructive thread into the toxic thread? Brilliant.

gavyne.6847:

Hear the argument about people who rolled ranger not wanting to be a healer a lot. I’m sure most who rolled a necromancer never did so to be a melee class. But yet Reaper is a melee class and changes how a necro plays completely. Even more surprisingly, a lot of necros ended up liking it after a couple of beta weekends.

If you really don’t want to be a healer, then stick with the ranger. Just as there are necros not wanting to take on the Reaper, as they prefer to be ranged caster instead. But you should give it a try before tossing the idea out of the window. You may be surprised.

Key thing here is Druids provide you with options and a completely new playstyle. Be glad you are now among the few classes that actually got elite specs that provided all new gameplay options. Choices is a good thing. And early speculation puts Druids right into the meta in all 3 game modes. That imo, is huge.

All I’m saying is give it a try before saying no. I hated GS on the necro during BWE1, but by BWE2, I loved it. Just make sure you provide plenty of feedback during the next beta weekend so devs can make proper tweaks and adjustments. My ranger has been on the shelf since forever, but this Druid elite spec is going to get me to dust him off and likely make this my primary alt I play.

The problem with your argument is that, while melee DPS has been the dominant (most desirable) setup in all areas of the game for three years, dedicated healer has never been anything other than trash-tier. So, right from the start, we know that healbot Druid will be utterly useless in all non-HoT PvE. It’s not just that Rangers don’t want to be healers, it’s also “no dedicated healer has ever been useful for high-end anything in the history of this game”.

That being said, using DPS traitlines with Druid in PvP might be worthwhile, for Stronghold in particular because it has more frequent team fights, where the support will be useful, and the healing might be excellent for keeping the lord alive. For PvE, though, I don’t see it catching on unless enormous changes cause Druid to be mandatory…but this would go against the design philosophy of the entire game.

In conclusion: promising for PvP, huge question mark everywhere else, but at least they don’t get stuck with gyros.

Mavander.3208:

The question I have for Irenio is: What if I want to be a dps druid?

That’s a huge question. For three years, they have utterly failed to move the PvE meta beyond “maximize DPS”. If the expansion doesn’t, then I’m worried that Druid will be utterly worthless.

Fluffball.8307:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

You don’t need to make yourself a new sword every month, though. If you have one, and take decent care of it, it will last you. A gun might…although the moving parts are more prone to corrosion than a sword is.

Absolutely. Rangers are sort of ‘practical survivalists’. My point was that they don’t have religious beliefs or something that prevents them from having guns, it’s just not practical if you’re not in a city for months at a time. My ranger, however, spends 95% of her time in the mists fighting with and against people using firearms. Seems like a good time to pick up a readily available firearm herself.

Shortly after launch (presumably before elite specs were dreamt up based on what little we’ve heard about behind the scenes) the devs said they wanted to make sure every profession had access to every weapon. Elite specs appear to be the current method of making that happen.

Also I looked diligently for the quote that all professions and even normal citizens use magic on a daily basis, but it appears that thread was deleted. I’m quite sure it was by Angel McCoy and I believe it was in a layline thread. I looked through her entire post history and couldn’t find anything. Maybe it was Bobby Stein and it was just too long ago…

I believe that’s fairly ‘common knowledge’ among the lore folks though. The wiki offers this, anyway: “Almost every being in Tyria has access to magic in some way or another, and there are countless ways of utilising that magic.”

Of course everyone uses magic. That’s what signets are, that’s what allows engineers to build autonomous turrets, that’s what allows everyone to heal themselves within seconds…

I just think of their lack of guns as a ‘just in case’ type of thing. A ranger wants to be prepared to trek into the wilderness for a few months, and if that situation arises, any guns and firearms expertise would become dead weight and wasted time, respectively.

Durzlla.6295:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

mistsim.2748:

well, to me the choice is very simple. thieves have the stealth mechanic, and good engie builds use 3-4 invulns/blocks, or even stealth. we’re talking complete damage avoidance here. other than SoS, rangers don’t have anything else that is viable. sword, dagger and evasion spamming are generally not used because defending without attacking or leaving the area is totally unproductive and inevitably leads to death.

Thieves/Engis can’t attack or defend points while they are in stealth/invulnerable. Ranger can do those things, while using SoS or evades. So, what did you want to say with this contradictory statement?

Durzlla.6295:

My engi has always had an easier time with condis than my ranger has, but that’s probably because engi has on demand condi cleanse where our big condi “cleanser” is a passive 3 condis every 10s and it doesn’t even cleanse them.

EB sucks, but SotF/WK + some survival skills offer decent condi remove.

Yes, SotF with survival skills is good, but that not only forces you into a specific traitline, but also forces you into using a specific set of utilities, which is why i didn’t include it.

Since when does engineer condition removal not force you into a specific traitline and specific utilities? Without alchemy/elixirs, you get 2 conditions removed every 15-20 seconds.

Fluffball.8307:

MiniEquine.6014:

Guns do go against the philosophy of the natural, so it makes sense that a core ranger would not be able to use them or rather would choose not to. They may get them as a future elite spec as others have stated, but this is why they don’t have it now.

Swords aren’t exactly something you find growing on trees either. I guess you could craft yourself some black powder for crude blunderbuss type thing if you were unusually crafty.

There is a 2nd definition of ranger that I’ve always felt was just as appropriate: a member of a body of armed men, in particular, a commando or highly trained infantryman.

To me that fits exactly the playstyle of a ranger, especially in WvW. Basically a scout (not the WvW definition of scout.)

/ramble

You don’t need to make yourself a new sword every month, though. If you have one, and take decent care of it, it will last you. A gun might…although the moving parts are more prone to corrosion than a sword is. And no, it isn’t likely that you’d be able to make black powder while out in the woods. Even if you could find the sulfur, the ammonium nitrate isn’t so easily obtained. And, after all that, you need to measure it out extremely precisely or else it will just burn slowly and the bullet won’t be going anywhere fast. Even people who know the ideal ratios typically can’t do it without the proper measuring tools.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lol, survival skills being magic? An Unguent is a medicinal paste, Muddy Terrain is throwing mud, Lightning Reflexes is self explanatory, as is Sharpening Stone, the only ones that could possibly be construed as magical is Quickening Zephyr and Entangle, so 2/6 that even seem possible to be magic. Nope, not a lot of magic there bro.

Lolwut? When you use lightning reflexes, you hit nearby enemies with a bolt of lightning. When you use muddy terrain, you convert the ground beneath their feet into mud. Do you really think that throwing a glob of mud at someone will completely immobilize them? As for troll unguent, it heals serious wounds in seconds. Every profession in GW2 uses magic, they just do it to greater or lesser extents. Ranger uses quite a bit.

bliss.4305:

The fact that it can be used TWICE with “Kinetic Battery*” is just crazy. You can effectively shut down any stealth effect in the area for 12 seconds.

In high skill-cap tourneys where clutch fights are greatly affected by successful SR-resses, I don’t see how any opponent engi would give up such counterplay. Granted, Elixir X is very very good and you’d have to spec into Scrapper traitline just to utilitize Sneak Gyro (lets not kid ourselves, rest of the gyros are quite subpar — along with the traitline)… but the potential counterplay on a 20 second cooldown is crazy good.

Engineers don’t have enough of a problem with thieves to justify slotting this. Elixir X and Mortar are both far better uses of that elite slot.

Thz.7569:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Elenire.7306:

What does everything think on the scrapper gryos compared to ranger spirits?

Beyond “they’re both bad”, does it really matter?

That’s not entirely true because of the Engi toolbelt mechanic. While some of the gyros alone seem “meh”, a few of them actually bring some cool toolbelt utility to tack on to their basic function.

Engineers can’t afford to bring a meh utility for a half decent toolbelt skill. Our utilities are already in too high demand, since we need them for weapon swap as well as everything else.

Elenire.7306:

What does everything think on the scrapper gryos compared to ranger spirits?

Beyond “they’re both bad”, does it really matter?

Kocoff.7582:

Wow…. wait up. the Stealth drone lasts 30 seconds and the CD is 30 seconds… The Stealth boon lasts 4 seconds and the interval of application is 3 seconds.

That means in WvW, the Scrapper will be rocking permanent stealth to them and 5 person.

That’s more stealth than a Thief could ever dream of. Permanent stealth roaming?
If you don’t see a flying little gyro miles away you are already dead.

Source?

Ayrilana.1396:

Or you can get informed and realize that they have not scrapped the Druid elite specialization.

I’m guessing it’s been a challenge to get it where it needs to be…because it needs to be really good to make up for the inherent flaws in the profession’s design.

If you want to run an inferior weapon set just for those few situations when you want to tag without having to switch, then you accept that it will get you killed sometimes because it lacks the tools that d/p has. You have the right to complain about being beaten due to your own weapon choice, you do not have the right to be taken seriously when you do so.

Holland.9351:

Fluffball.8307:

There is a theory that rangers are last because they needed the most help.

I keep hearing this, but there really is no proof of it.

Like you said, the only thing we know is that they seem to have kept to the order of the reveals in the same order as the professions are listed on this page: http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ except they skipped Ranger and left it for last. The chances of it being a coincidence are as good as 0.

However, we do not know the reason for it. It could simply be because druids are the most revelant to the lore of the maguuma jungle or a bunch of other reasons.

They probably had to go through many iterations of it. I suspect (and hope) that ranger will be more changed by druid than the other professions are by their elite specializations; they certainly need it the most.

Holland.9351:

Salamander.2504:

Daharahj.1325:

I mean our elite spec IS called “Druid”, I don’t think Rangers want to have anything to do with firearms from a thematic standpoint.

Are we sure about that? Everyone thought engineer would get “forge”…Personally I was blindsided when I saw “scrapper”!

The name Druid has already been confirmed. I think it was at the first reveal of the expansion. Druids are also already part of the maguuma jungle lore since Guild Wars 1. None of the other elite specs are from existing lore I believe.

True, although as a matter of trivia chronomancer was going to be a class in GW Utopia, but that release was changed into an expansion (no new professions).

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

And that’s why I run d/p pretty much everywhere…shadow shot gets you out of AoE fast and blinds your target

You can HS your way out of AoE without requiring a target.

and headshot can interrupt nasty skills like meteor shower.

Or Sleight of Hand. Or with my favorite, Scorpion Wire.

Until they fix the /d part of d/d, it just isn’t as competitive against other players.

Competitive in terms of what?

In PvP, Thieves can easily use D/D if they are not subjected to a roaming/capping/decapping duty.

In PvE and WvW, D/D is the best set to use because D/P lacks the ability to tag multiple targets where D/D can easily to that with DB and Dancing Daggers.

Tagging? Shortbow is better than dancing daggers for that, and the mobility is useful anywhere. Shortbow is the alternate weapon for thieves, sort of like necro staff in that regard.

So you’re saying that D/P is so bad at tagging that you have to pull out the Shortbow…ok.

If there is an appropriate target available, shadow shot is both faster and more initiative efficient as a mobility skill than heartseeker.

I disagree. Just by relying on a target makes it weaker.

It also has the blind as a defensive mechanic. Let me turn the question on its head: what benefit do you get from d/d that is not present in d/p?

AoE tagging. I thought I already post that.

Why is needing to pull out a shortbow to tag such a disadvantage? You use the proper weapon for the job. Shortbow is better at tagging than d/d, so for tagging you use shortbow.

Ah, but we’re not comparing D/D with S/B now are we?

D/p is better at roaming and 1v1 than d/d, so for roaming and 1v1 you use that. Why would camping a single weapon be a goal when you have a weapon swap?

Ah, yes 1v1, of course. No one is deying the superiority of D/P in 1v1.

You asked me what D/D can do that D/P cannot and I answered you.

You should always be carrying shortbow. Always. Because thieves get weapon swap (gasp), we’re comparing d/p + sb to d/d + sb. Using dancing dagger to tag is stupid and a waste of initiative. You get the same tagging potential as the auto attack on shortbow, and a good deal less than shortbow 2. There is no reason to camp d/d when you’re tagging. The bottom line is that you’re using an inferior weapon set, and wondering why you aren’t doing as well.

Terrorsquad.4802:

runeblade.7514:

Anastasis.7258:

2. Rune of Vampirism.

The bug got fixed.

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.
6. Necromancer’s Signet of Vampirism goes through Block/Dodge/Invulnerability.
7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I don’t see anything wrong with these.

The bug did not get fixed. Ppl can still use their f-skills in mist form.

The bug was that elementalists’ downed health was reset after mistform if they ran vamp runes.

Expertise, not nature magic. And honestly, as I’ve said before, the core mechanic should have been preparations…but that’s another issue entirely.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

And that’s why I run d/p pretty much everywhere…shadow shot gets you out of AoE fast and blinds your target

You can HS your way out of AoE without requiring a target.

and headshot can interrupt nasty skills like meteor shower.

Or Sleight of Hand. Or with my favorite, Scorpion Wire.

Until they fix the /d part of d/d, it just isn’t as competitive against other players.

Competitive in terms of what?

In PvP, Thieves can easily use D/D if they are not subjected to a roaming/capping/decapping duty.

In PvE and WvW, D/D is the best set to use because D/P lacks the ability to tag multiple targets where D/D can easily to that with DB and Dancing Daggers.

Tagging? Shortbow is better than dancing daggers for that, and the mobility is useful anywhere. Shortbow is the alternate weapon for thieves, sort of like necro staff in that regard.

So you’re saying that D/P is so bad at tagging that you have to pull out the Shortbow…ok.

If there is an appropriate target available, shadow shot is both faster and more initiative efficient as a mobility skill than heartseeker.

I disagree. Just by relying on a target makes it weaker.

It also has the blind as a defensive mechanic. Let me turn the question on its head: what benefit do you get from d/d that is not present in d/p?

AoE tagging. I thought I already post that.

Why is needing to pull out a shortbow to tag such a disadvantage? You use the proper weapon for the job. Shortbow is better at tagging than d/d, so for tagging you use shortbow. D/p is better at roaming and 1v1 than d/d, so for roaming and 1v1 you use that. Why would camping a single weapon be a goal when you have a weapon swap?

Zatoichi.1049:

Loki.9412:

Medieval themed…with asura gates, teleporting, airships, and the list goes on. I do get the ranger/hunter theme perfectly, and primarily, it’s about taking your enemy out from range with long range weapons. I wasn’t suggesting changing the theme of the ranger entirely but a rifle seems to be reasonable, especially given the technology provided by allies in tyria, if we’re going down that rp thought train. Anyway, I went with engi as it lets me play all the guns, which is what I wanted most.

I don’t think you understand the word “themed.” Did you play gw1? GW2 is a continuation of the very medieval themed gw1, with the early immergence of magi-tech. you just listed the most prominent asuran tech. Only airships were a joined effort of the human and asuran. Most of the technogies the asuran have is kept to themselves and intend on doing so for now. With the exception of the very crude war-themed technology of the charr, and the stuff the the pact have recently created, the other 90% of the world is your typical fantasy medieval world, kings, queens, knights, vikings, pirates, medieval villages, farmers, weapons, castles, blacksmiths, armorsmiths, etc .

Just a nitpick, but charr technology (despite its appearance) is anything but primitive. Mechanized gun turrets with breech-loading, magazine-fed cannons? Self propelled artillery pieces? That is turn of the century (1900s) technology, at least. They even have machine guns, as I recall.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

And that’s why I run d/p pretty much everywhere…shadow shot gets you out of AoE fast and blinds your target

You can HS your way out of AoE without requiring a target.

and headshot can interrupt nasty skills like meteor shower.

Or Sleight of Hand. Or with my favorite, Scorpion Wire.

Until they fix the /d part of d/d, it just isn’t as competitive against other players.

Competitive in terms of what?

In PvP, Thieves can easily use D/D if they are not subjected to a roaming/capping/decapping duty.

In PvE and WvW, D/D is the best set to use because D/P lacks the ability to tag multiple targets where D/D can easily to that with DB and Dancing Daggers.

Tagging? Shortbow is better than dancing daggers for that, and the mobility is useful anywhere. Shortbow is the alternate weapon for thieves, sort of like necro staff in that regard. Also, d/p already tends to have sleight of hand as well as headshot, giving you more interrupts without sacrificing anything significant. If there is an appropriate target available, shadow shot is both faster and more initiative efficient as a mobility skill than heartseeker. It also has the blind as a defensive mechanic. Let me turn the question on its head: what benefit do you get from d/d that is not present in d/p?

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

And that’s why I run d/p pretty much everywhere…shadow shot gets you out of AoE fast and blinds your target, and headshot can interrupt nasty skills like meteor shower. Until they fix the /d part of d/d, it just isn’t as competitive against other players.

So?

If you run a less efficient setup, you’re going to have more problems. That’s just the way it is, with any profession in the game. You chose to run d/d, so you accepted the limitations of the weapon set. I don’t like the lack of options that plague so many professions, but I still have to live with them.

archmagus.7249:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

archmagus.7249:

It seems like you can apply effects (superspeed) to these gyros. If they can be stealthed could you have 2 engineers with stealth gyros sheathing each other?

I doubt it. They probably have constant reavealed on themselves. Besides, wasting 2 elites to do what a thief can with 1 utility seems inefficient.

But from the sounds of it, use can keep the stealth on you while moving, which you can’t do with the thief.

Maybe, although SR gives huge stealth duration left over after it ends. We’ll have to wait and see whether this does as well.

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Except most of that is exaggerated. I play thief often; I know what sic em (for example) does, and it isn’t to the extent of shutting you down completely.

It is.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

At worst, you blind, LoS and reset the fight.

D/D thief, no blind on my weapon set – I might also be out of initative.

Edit: And blind doesn’t save me from aoe which can be better thrown into my direction when knowing my position.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

The thing is, a thief’s time is very valuable. You should not be getting into fair fights as a thief. Yes, you can win them…but it’s a waste of time. Better to find a fair fight and make it an unfair fight via your arrival. That way, you get more kills more quickly, and when you cap the point your teammate there can defend it while you continue to roam. Daredevil will be different: an on-point fighter with evades instead of stealth as the primary defensive mechanic.

I’m a wvw player, I don’t care about pvp or the mechanics in pvp (no offense to pvp players – you know what I mean) – I really want to have a fair chance in a 1 vs 1 – reveal is destroying a good part of that – we already discussed this multiple times and in fact you can compare it to the OP – reveal really is bad.

And that’s why I run d/p pretty much everywhere…shadow shot gets you out of AoE fast and blinds your target, and headshot can interrupt nasty skills like meteor shower. Until they fix the /d part of d/d, it just isn’t as competitive against other players.

Agemnon.4608:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Jana.6831:

Guess the purpose of this thread is to show what “reveal” would do to other classes.

so +1 from me

Except most of that is exaggerated. I play thief often; I know what sic em (for example) does, and it isn’t to the extent of shutting you down completely. At worst, you blind, LoS and reset the fight. The thing is, a thief’s time is very valuable. You should not be getting into fair fights as a thief. Yes, you can win them…but it’s a waste of time. Better to find a fair fight and make it an unfair fight via your arrival. That way, you get more kills more quickly, and when you cap the point your teammate there can defend it while you continue to roam. Daredevil will be different: an on-point fighter with evades instead of stealth as the primary defensive mechanic.

But simply joining a fight is something any class can do. If the class can’t 1 vs. 1 it’s underpowered, period.

I never said that thieves can’t 1v1 (in fact, I said the exact opposite). I said it is a waste of a thief’s valuable time to do so. Other professions don’t +1 nearly as well because they don’t have the mobility to be where they should, when they should.

Saiyan.1704:

Kolly.9872:

Anastasis.7258:

2. Rune of Vampirism.

I would remove every passive effect attivation from runes and traits:
such as remove/give X thing when healt reach the % threshold

+1
These should be an active effect that can only be triggered at 20%-30% health. All these passive effects ahould be a trigget F3-F5 or another key action.

f1-f5 are all used for profession mechanics. They’re running out of keys that can be used.

Jana.6831:

Guess the purpose of this thread is to show what “reveal” would do to other classes.

so +1 from me

Except most of that is exaggerated. I play thief often; I know what sic em (for example) does, and it isn’t to the extent of shutting you down completely. At worst, you blind, LoS and reset the fight. The thing is, a thief’s time is very valuable. You should not be getting into fair fights as a thief. Yes, you can win them…but it’s a waste of time. Better to find a fair fight and make it an unfair fight via your arrival. That way, you get more kills more quickly, and when you cap the point your teammate there can defend it while you continue to roam. Daredevil will be different: an on-point fighter with evades instead of stealth as the primary defensive mechanic.

Lazze.9870:

I’m personally more annoyed by how they couldn’t just leave Healing Spring as it was and still let it benfit from Trapper’s Expertise. The traps themselfes aren’t terrible, Spike Trap and Flame Trap with a third utility skill works fine in PvP, although the Spike Trap cooldown was slightly overdone..

I wouldn’t mind throwing traps, but I can live without it. I do however think the cripple portion of the trapper trait could have been a tad more interesting and impactful. And even if the our new revive trait is good, it sucks that they removed Spike Trap from it as soon as they added the knockdown effect to the skill.

Edit: About trapper runes and pet stealth, pets gaining stealth when the ranger do should be baseline. For obvious reasons…

Stealth for the pet when the ranger does should always have been baseline, as should sharing boons.

Raven.9603:

lets be real about revealed.

• rangers slot sic ’em, mostly because mesmer population needs to be countered somehow.
• engies barely exist, and they dont slot goggles, EVER. also, new stealth elite is not a good choice for PvP next to elixir X or supply drop. For large WvW, new stealth elite provides a much needed group role for clearing mesmers out of keeps, but is not as strong as mortar. for roaming, it might be a good choice, but that will depend on cooldown, and if its taken it will be for escapability, and it will be a tough choice over elixir and supply drop which do way more to actually win the fight.
• guardians …there is little indication guardians have ANY interest in speccing traps. the general concensus is, DH is absolute garbage, traps are garbage, the bow has potential for zergs but not PvP or roaming.

am i missing anyone? did revenants get something?

thats just one class that would commonly carry the counter, and thats probably reasonable.

“discuss”

Revenants get one with Glint. 20s cd, stunbreak, blind, not sure how crippling the cost is but they get it from ending a perma-fury stance.

archmagus.7249:

It seems like you can apply effects (superspeed) to these gyros. If they can be stealthed could you have 2 engineers with stealth gyros sheathing each other?

I doubt it. They probably have constant reavealed on themselves. Besides, wasting 2 elites to do what a thief can with 1 utility seems inefficient.

You have more counterplay options against revealed than rangers do against pet bugs.

Urejt.5648:

I forsee s/d onlychoice after hot. Fist reason s/d has better utilities: teleport, condie removal, stealth from dagger. Secondly shawdow trait line will be garbage due to the fact, that enemy will always reveal you (revenant dragon or gyro reveal). Stealth rezer no longer will be viable. New meta will be daredevil s/d.

It’s extremely unlikely that any scrappers will be running the gyro elite. The rev’s skill might be a problem, although if they choose to use that skill a lot, they won’t be able to use other skills as frequently (remember, revenants have to keep track of energy as well as cooldowns).

Ohoni.6057:

Thieves should get a Trait where if we use an out-of-stealth attack on an Engineer, it prevents them from using Kits and toolkit abilities for 8 seconds.

So, because engineers can block you out of stealth every once in a while with a trait that none of them actually take, you think that thieves should be capable of locking them out of both their profession mechanic (I don’t see steal or initiative being affected by anything here, by the way) and their weapon swap? kitten good thing that you’re not in charge of balance.