Also, I don’t suggest a nerf to thieves. But knowing we’re hitting them while they’re stealthed would be super instead of swinging blindly and having absolutely no idea whether we’re hitting them or not.
And to clarify, that’s not a nerf. Just because I know I’m hitting you doesn’t mean I’ll be able to track you, it just means I’ll know you’re close by. As is, when you stealth you may as well be invincible. And let me stress may as well. I’m fully aware you’re still vulnerable while stealthed, but unless you’re standing directly infront of your opponent, it’s really not hard for you to literally side-step an attack and your enemy being none the wiser.
You can tell if you’re hitting a thief when the thief is in stealth, your auto attack chain will progress. Also, it seems that ranger rapid fire tracks thieves pretty well generally as long as you start the channel before the thief goes into stealth. Honestly I find rangers to be one of the best classes to keep tabs on my movements when I do enter stealth. That being said, most rangers are by no means able to overcome the damage a thief can put out as quickly as the thief does. At best rangers can delay their death, but finding the thief when he’s stealthed really shouldn’t be a complaint for any aware player, even a ranger.
Also, hint-hint, if a thief is in stealth, odds are he’s trying to hit your back, keep that in mind at all times.
Also been playing my warrior recently, and both Kill Shot and Rapid Fire are long channels, which make taking down troll thieves VERY easy in group play. You can only dodge that 20k Killshot so long as you see it coming. In my opinion, every organized group in WvW should be running a burst rifle warrior as a “Thief Buster”. Running greatsword in the secondary set allows you to heavily punish stealth stomping and save your allies from otherwise dying. Any smart thief won’t engage after a while of seeing your group on the map.
Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.
Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.
Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.
You are bragging because you own rangers all day. Do you not see the 200+ post (and growing) CDI topic? I mean you must feel super special right about now.
Who said I was bragging? I said that he was in no position to call out thieves and tell them to L2P without stealth, which I have done. His argument also vaguely infers that stealth is “cheap” and playing without it will make you an easy kill for him. Please don’t try to twist my words, o’ special one.
Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.
Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.
Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.
10/0/30/30/0 full PTV, hammer+Sw/Wh. Use all shouts since you trait shouts heal with soldier runes
Too bad the best warrior build for front line is also the lamest build to play. If want to maximize your contribution to the group, this is the build to play but don’t expect to get a ton of excitement out of it.
Thats true. I never said it was fun or engaging to play :/
Try solo roaming with it, and add in some zerk/cavalier to boot. That’ll get your heart racing.
You’ve got decent damage with 51% crit damage with fury (60% uptime), can cycle Balanced Stance and Signet of Rage for perma swiftness to assure that you’re never left behind, and you’re not a stick in the mud when assaulting keeps like most pure-melee warriors are; longbow also gives you superior kiting capabilities in smaller fights, and Pin Down is fantastic for stopping mobile enemies (thieves, mesmers, eles).
Posted this build a while back, hybrid damage+Condi which can land eviscerates for 10-14k with nearly 3k armor. Your utilities are pretty flexible, and so are your runes, but be sure to run a few Condi removals and/or run with one or two guardians. You’ll also be very slow.
You should aim for 500 with a hybrid build, but it’s close enough that your conditions are actually doing damage rather than simply ticking away, doing nothing.
Posted this build a while back, hybrid damage+Condi which can land eviscerates for 10-14k with nearly 3k armor. Your utilities are pretty flexible, and so are your runes, but be sure to run a few Condi removals and/or run with one or two guardians. You’ll also be very slow.
Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.
since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.
condi removal (stealth related…unless u wanna count your signet for 1 condi)
blinds (blinding power is stealth related and so is the blind on stealth trait)
backstab/sneak attack(if you go condi or dagger direct dmg…both are used)
healing (best healing in class is in stealth)
defense(best defense other than dodging is here…every class has dodge tho)
s/d p/p s/d are just not played right now at a competitive lvl. yes your very very occaisonally see a s/d thief or a s/p thief but not enough to say its commonplace or even close to meta.
You are rank 13 confirmed baddie, what do you know about hight end pvp? Or competitve level? got no clue even how glory is awarded or how u get points in spvp, you spout your wisdom?
A food critic doesn’t need to know how to cook, nor does a movie critic need to know how to direct. High rank does not equal vast knowledge in PvP, and low rank does not equal little knowledge in PvP. An observer can be just as knowledgeable about the game mode as a seasoned veteran. This doesn’t mean I agree with Travlane – I rarely do. I’m simply pointing this out due to the fact that I see it dropped as an argument constantly when arguing points as far as GW2 PvP goes. It’s ignorant and elitist to assume that someone of a lower rank knows less (although it’s probably true for the majority of people, many of us who are deeply involved in the thief forum and crunch numbers know exactly what we’re talking about when it comes to PvP, the meta, and all other aspects without necessarily being rank 50+). Source: Former Team Legacy member and competitive high end player/spectator, only rank 24. I ran Lowell’s Unicorn Build as a mid-point bunker for a very, very long time. I was also a class lead and participated in every theorycrafting meeting the team had, some of which lasted 72 hours straight just crunching numbers and determining balance.
He just proved his knowledge on other thread ( and oh boy he did). And his knowledge is non existat/ pathetic.
Yep. I never said that I agreed with him. I just thought that I’d point out that people pull the “your rank is low” or “you’re not in the top 1k” card as something that actually means that people know nothing way too much, and it’s not a viable argument in many cases.
Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.
since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.
condi removal (stealth related…unless u wanna count your signet for 1 condi)
blinds (blinding power is stealth related and so is the blind on stealth trait)
backstab/sneak attack(if you go condi or dagger direct dmg…both are used)
healing (best healing in class is in stealth)
defense(best defense other than dodging is here…every class has dodge tho)
s/d p/p s/d are just not played right now at a competitive lvl. yes your very very occaisonally see a s/d thief or a s/p thief but not enough to say its commonplace or even close to meta.
You are rank 13 confirmed baddie, what do you know about hight end pvp? Or competitve level? got no clue even how glory is awarded or how u get points in spvp, you spout your wisdom?
A food critic doesn’t need to know how to cook, nor does a movie critic need to know how to direct. High rank does not equal vast knowledge in PvP, and low rank does not equal little knowledge in PvP. An observer can be just as knowledgeable about the game mode as a seasoned veteran. This doesn’t mean I agree with Travlane – I rarely do. I’m simply pointing this out due to the fact that I see it dropped as an argument constantly when arguing points as far as GW2 PvP goes. It’s ignorant and elitist to assume that someone of a lower rank knows less (although it’s probably true for the majority of people, many of us who are deeply involved in the thief forum and crunch numbers know exactly what we’re talking about when it comes to PvP, the meta, and all other aspects without necessarily being rank 50+). Source: Former Team Legacy member and competitive high end player/spectator, only rank 24. I ran Lowell’s Unicorn Build as a mid-point bunker for a very, very long time. I was also a class lead and participated in every theorycrafting meeting the team had, some of which lasted 72 hours straight just crunching numbers and determining balance.
i run a sword build in wvw
a 10% drop in damage will hurt
but i really wish we would get back the stun breaker on the sword or some other way to deal with mass cc .
or i will be FORCED "not cool " to go with a condition build :S
less damage and no stun breaker and the sword is useless
at least now we can deal damage with our lack of mobility with the sword
Why don’t you be like everyone else and just run a stunbreaker (or two) as utilities?
If you count Shadowstep as two, then I run 4! I only wish Withdraw was also a stunbreaker.
Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.
A little off-topic, but weren’t there also “good things coming” to thief as well as ele and ranger? I may have misheard (also, when is the next Ready Up? I’m terrible with dates xP)
Either way I did not say perma evade only evade builds.
So continue believing that #3 builds require skill
Maybe you should play one. You’ll find out really quick that spamming 3 will get you killed very, very quickly.
You’re the only person here going on about spamming evades. Just having that much access to evade is insane
btw what’s ur secondary weapon set
Tell me, what’s my primary? I’d be tickled to hear, o’ knowledgable one. Go on. Please. If something were wrong with my evades, ANet would have done something about it (they already nerfed vigor to the point where permanent uptime is impossible); however, D/P still prevails as the most prominent weapon set in tPvP. This notion that sword builds are “faceroll easy” is sickening, and I dare you to pick one up and play any real team PvP with it (go ahead – find a team. I’m sure there are just teams lining up for your utter skill and vast knowledge of every class).
You already stated that you run a stealthless S/P build.
And yes sword sets for thieves are “faceroll easy” as you call it. Sorry but Anet has targeted sword/evade builds for a reason.
And they’ve already been nerfed. The only remnants of being “OP” are people like you, who play D/P which sword counters VERY well. See signature for details.
I’m still waiting for you to tell me what my primary set is.
Now you’re dodging
And now you’re perma-stealthing? I’m not going to waste my energy on some jaded bad D/P thief who refuses to play other builds, let alone learn how other classes work in order to make a fair assertion as to whether something is OP or not. You seem to have this notion that I attacked you, when in fact you’re to the point where you can do nothing but look for anything you can get your grubby hands onto to take stabs at me with. I’ve never seen you on the forums, Azu. Perhaps you should just leave, because people like you embody what’s wrong with these forums. You’ve driven this so far off-topic that I doubt it’ll be an open thread for very long.
Fact is, D/P is much easier to play than S/P in WvW.
No, wait: you’re the best. I’m a terrible thief who knows nothing about the class and hasn’t posted any builds, and is rarely on these forums because frankly I don’t even use traits I’m so bad. You’re a god among thieves, man. So good.
Either way I did not say perma evade only evade builds.
So continue believing that #3 builds require skill
Maybe you should play one. You’ll find out really quick that spamming 3 will get you killed very, very quickly.
You’re the only person here going on about spamming evades. Just having that much access to evade is insane
btw what’s ur secondary weapon set
Tell me, what’s my primary? I’d be tickled to hear, o’ knowledgable one. Go on. Please. If something were wrong with my evades, ANet would have done something about it (they already nerfed vigor to the point where permanent uptime is impossible); however, D/P still prevails as the most prominent weapon set in tPvP. This notion that sword builds are “faceroll easy” is sickening, and I dare you to pick one up and play any real team PvP with it (go ahead – find a team. I’m sure there are just teams lining up for your utter skill and vast knowledge of every class).
You already stated that you run a stealthless S/P build.
And yes sword sets for thieves are “faceroll easy” as you call it. Sorry but Anet has targeted sword/evade builds for a reason.
And they’ve already been nerfed. The only remnants of being “OP” are people like you, who play D/P which sword counters VERY well. See signature for details.
I’m still waiting for you to tell me what my primary set is.
Either way I did not say perma evade only evade builds.
So continue believing that #3 builds require skill
Maybe you should play one. You’ll find out really quick that spamming 3 will get you killed very, very quickly.
You’re the only person here going on about spamming evades. Just having that much access to evade is insane
btw what’s ur secondary weapon set
Tell me, what’s my primary? I’d be tickled to hear, o’ knowledgable one. Go on. Please. If something were wrong with my evades, ANet would have done something about it (they already nerfed vigor to the point where permanent uptime is impossible); however, D/P still prevails as the most prominent weapon set in tPvP. This notion that sword builds are “faceroll easy” is sickening, and I dare you to pick one up and play any real team PvP with it (go ahead – find a team. I’m sure there are just teams lining up for your utter skill and vast knowledge of every class).
What: Basilisk Venom Why: When I use it, it seems to last for .5 seconds, when they use it, it seems to last for 3 whole seconds and is therefore too stronk
Viking Jorun.5413 i don’t know if you are one of those thieves that love to say they are experts because they do not use D/P or talking seriously.
D/P is the best set for WvW . . . yes.
But it doesn’t mean it is OP.
Anet must buff other sets to be a real option.
Man i’m really tired of this forum, always calling all good build cheesy, all good counters OP, and “a total imbalance” for every profession they can not kill.
I run stealthless S/P quite successfully in WvW, and shut down D/P thieves on a regular basis, even in dueling and outnumbered situations when I’m seen before I can get the jump on people. I never said that it was OP. I said it was fun, and quite powerful for what it’s meant for. Please don’t take offense when someone says that the set you run is easy to play compared to what they’re used to.
Thanks, mate!
The evade builds are the real OP builds of a thief.
Yet our vigor was nerfed and PW costs initiative, which runs out. Perma evade isn’t a thing, people :P. No respectable S/P or S/D thief spams 3 for evade spam; not even Jumper. If you think sword evade builds are bad, look back on Lowell’s Unicorn Build for “spam 3 2 win haha”.
Viking Jorun.5413 i don’t know if you are one of those thieves that love to say they are experts because they do not use D/P or talking seriously.
D/P is the best set for WvW . . . yes.
But it doesn’t mean it is OP.
Anet must buff other sets to be a real option.
Man i’m really tired of this forum, always calling all good build cheesy, all good counters OP, and “a total imbalance” for every profession they can not kill.
I run stealthless S/P quite successfully in WvW, and shut down D/P thieves on a regular basis, even in dueling and outnumbered situations when I’m seen before I can get the jump on people. I never said that it was OP. I said it was fun, and quite powerful for what it’s meant for. Please don’t take offense when someone says that the set you run is easy to play compared to what they’re used to.
If you’re going for a back an build you definitely need more crit damage. A lot more. D/P has the ability to escape any situation no matter how glassy you are, so don’t be afraid to dump some of that survivability for zerk/cavalier/Valkyrie gear.
My question is, why wouldn’t you take Bountiful theft if you’re taking Sleight of Hand? You’ll prioritize their stability always, and every steal will be an interrupt, also opening up the options for counter play to interrupt heals and steal boons like Aegis and Regen to diminish the sustainability of your opponent while increasing your own.
have fun untill you face someone with brain who knows how to punish d/p
This. Please join the train of people I regularly kill in WvW because of the FotM-ness of D/P.
If you spend the needed time to actually learn it, you will do well. If you don’t, then you are not any better than any Perplexity Engi, Hambow Warrior or PU mesmer (actually PU mesmers are still the king of cheese).
I have no intentions of playing much D/P. I’d rather get good fights in with my S/P anti-meta build and counter the cheese.
Sword is the Meta for thief and it has been for quite some time now……
I’m talking about the overarcing meta of condispam and AI. Sword does well to counter it with on-demand condi removal and plenty of evades. On the topic of people shouting that all sword thieves do is spam 3, I say this: Bad sword thieves will spam 3 because it does the most damage, just as bad dagger thieves will spam 2 for the same reason. Neither can survive a real fight against a skilled opponent, and neither is an effective playstyle. Good players will make any weapon set shine, while bad ones contribute to the stereotype of thiefspam.
have fun untill you face someone with brain who knows how to punish d/p
This. Please join the train of people I regularly kill in WvW because of the FotM-ness of D/P.
If you spend the needed time to actually learn it, you will do well. If you don’t, then you are not any better than any Perplexity Engi, Hambow Warrior or PU mesmer (actually PU mesmers are still the king of cheese).
I have no intentions of playing much D/P. I’d rather get good fights in with my S/P anti-meta build and counter the cheese.
I feel like this would have the opposite effect as intended. While it would nerf the overall sustained damage of the thief (namely sword and Condi builds), it would increase the capability of the thief’s front-loaded damage, further pigeonholing us into burst specs in order to maintain effectiveness.
I always get bored when I’m playing D/P, personally. It’s a lot easier to kill people with it than other builds, even though I tend to annihilate D/P Thieves with S/D (my favorite in the fun department) really easily. It’s just a safer build with the stealth and you can escape from battle when you need to. I even find D/D more fun, but people seem to not want to deal with missing CnD.
Getting bored of most things though lately. Wondering when I’ll get to use Dagger/Focus or Torch or something new. O_o We need more cheese.
Meanwhile you all cry about d/p the wvw meta is still the same braindead hammer train, aoe spam, CCs everywhere etc..
If you face someone good d/p is not immortal..
So why would I want to see nerfed one of the best thief’s weaponset? Just becouse it’s cool writing on forum “im prohhhhh with my random build becouse is not mainstream QQ” ?
It’s just ridiculous guys, play your builds and don’t cry here please, it start to be really boring..
Who’s crying? I said that the set was powerful in 1v1 situations. I never went to the extent of saying it’s overpowered.
Well, yes, GW2 became a pay-to-win game somehow. If you are on a T2 or T3 server in EU, even the PvE events like Tequatl are rarely done simply because you don’t have enough players to fight those more-difficult-events. The jungle worm? No way you will ever see him down on any low polpulated server. What happens is that most players on those T2/3-servers guest on the higher populated servers. This started with Tequatl and is now the more or less only and common way to get those achivements. With WvW it’s almost the same – excepts, you can’t guest. So if you like MMORPG-style fights, you move to a T1. If you don’t really care about the “massive”, than you can do some small scale fighting in T2 or T3. But with this S2 and the expected reward system, most casual WvW players will move to T1. And it’s only a matter of time till PvE players will start to follow. And ANet won’t pool the lower servers until they got almost all money/gems from the moving players.
Hey, there’s this fantastic new thing called guesting! It was implemented a while back to solve the dilemma of world events not being completed on low pop servers, and it’s completely free! I’m sorry nobody ever told you about it. Must’ve been a shame trying to do it all with your own server.
Last week there was this particular thief on the enemy team in my server’s matchup that was running S/P.
And man… it was a barrel of lulz.
Full zerk, glassy as hell. Hangs back most of the time unless odds were in his favor – and then… 2..3,3,3,3,3,3,3 (slight exaggeration). But seriously, I had never seen a S/P thief be able to spam 3 so many times in a row. It was literally the only attack button he ever pressed aside from the 2 opener, and kitten if you took that full 3 spam it was over.
When he wasn’t evading he was a 2-hit kill with D/D but it was fun as hell dropping blinds on him with D/P.
D/P: to counter that sh**, and also mini hammer-trains. :P
My S/P build is quite balanced and is more about sustained damage and healing, not one of those amateur zerk builds.
D/P is overpowered in WvW imo, but try running that build in high level team queues and you’ll find it’s crap. The only reason that build works in WvW is that you don’t have an area you’re forced to stay in. I’m not a fan of builds that rely heavily on stealth though.
In spvp I find s/p pretty faceroll easy but I can see how it’d be more challenging in WvW.
You’d never run this spec in any form of serious PvP. Trickery in that format is King.
And my god is it easy to play. After numerous occasions where AR and ET permastealth thieves told me to L2P (mind you I’m playing my S/P no-stealth build in which half of those thieves died to), I finally decided to grab some exotics, trait out 0/30/30/10/0 for might stacking, and head out. It’s a breath of fresh air not having to worry about losing 1v1’s against equally skilled players. Even D/P thieves crumble under my might (heh, it’s a pun), and it’s sad to see just how easy it is to play. Don’t know whether I’ll stick with it, but it is a fun spec to play, albeit quite cheesy. Vitality? Toughness? Who needs it! Full zerk with traveler runes is the way to go.
My old havoc guild used to “raid” almost every night around reset to 9 (server time) and didn’t really mind who ran what, as long as we did what we were supposed to do well. Some people take the elitist crap way too over the top — trust me, I was in Team Legacy; I know.
Find a better guild. You’re better off without the need to be stressed over your build or class in a game.
I mean, Taquito’s not a bad thief, but don’t go around screaming OP because of one skilled guy who happens to be one of the only thieves able to manage through P/P and make it work. You and your friend have some serious learning to do if you let a P/P thief nearly take you down. Time his burst. Let him burn through death shroud – that’s what it’s there for.
As far as EotM aspects go, I’d love to see some sort of havoc zerg-punishing mechanic like the bridges; however I realize this would require too much change to the existing maps. Would something like a Pitfall Trap which would explode/break after X amount of players step over it be a viable option? Granted this would cost a lot of supply to make, but I’m not the balance team.
OR. Or. Engies had a cannon turret that they placed, with the second half being a flare that they had to place at the exit location, which acted like the mesmer’s portal?
If people would learn which classes you gain each stolen ability from and actually use their finishers we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I swear, I’m the only thief that utilizes a combo field other than black powder.
Boxed sales go down for any game after launch, always. You’re REALLY stretching your neck here to say this game is dying. They made more than their projected profits solely from cash shop sales, not including boxed sales which did increase over the winter period from their drop in Q3. You can’t say, “This game is dying” solely based on box sales. Go look at WoW’s box sales compared to launch and over time and tell me again how GW2 is dying, please.
It’s a lot easier to kill people with it than other builds, even though I tend to annihilate D/P Thieves with S/D (my favorite in the fun department) really easily. It’s just a safer build with the stealth and you can escape from battle when you need to. I even find D/D more fun, but people seem to not want to deal with missing CnD.
