Guild Wars 2

Everyone knows that air runes in their current state are broken, I doubt that anyone is going to deny this; but fact is prince you got outplayed in that fight, there was no indication that air runes were even the reason you lost that fight, you played badly and you were punished for it, so I don’t understand why your arguing otherwise.

I also don’t think that payne tried to justify that air runes are balanced, he just tried to explain the fact that you don’t even do a good job of showing that air runes are what lost you that fight; and the fact that your upset at the rng factor of the air runes and sigils is also a moot point, mmo’s and moba’s alike have always the rng factor incorporated into them, crits and weapon procs have always and will always be around.

I just don’t understand what it is you wish to achieve, by going after payne when all he did was simply clarify what happened in the video and it also baffles me that people still don’t understand that sigil procs and rune procs are part of the gameplay and I doubt they will be removed, there will always be a level of rng that players should be ready to deal with, you can come on the forums and whine about it whenever you feel like you were unlucky, but I doubt that will help the case.

Regarding your argument about thieves, I have found that good elementalist (this isn’t a poke at prince in anyway, because the video provided doesn’t really give a good indication of skill level.) have an easy time dealing with thieves if they understand how to avoid the initial burst, and that thieves in general aren’t as bad as people make them out to be, and we personally haven’t really ran a thief in our main comp and we are still doing very well. Albeit they do need a nerf towards DD and BS to bring them a bit more in line damage wise.

P.S I am no way saying that air runes don’t need to be nerfed, I fully and 100% agree that they should.

I don’t think that anyone can deny the fact that Mesmers need a nerf; the problem is that the nerf needs to be balanced and that the class can remain viable even after those nerfs are implemented; I do understand the fact that a lot of people would like to see the class nerfed to the ground, and I personally see the problems with the class, so I would like to make a few suggestions.

Portal CD be increased from 60r → 90r

Mindwrack damage increase trait “Mental Torment” be decreased from 20% increase damage to 10%.

Distortion no longer takes into account the amount of illusions you have active, but be a flat 1 second invulnerable.

Decoy no longer makes the mesmer invisible but instead blinks the mesmer back 900 units spawning an illusion in his place; this can also be applied to the trait “Desperate Decoy”.

I feel like those would be fair nerfs at the moment to mesmers, given the fact that over nerfs are very popular now a days.

Thank you <3

The problem with thief is apparent in both low and high level play; a lot of people have been claiming its an l2p issue, but its not.

Thief is currently on the same pedestal as Mesmer, which is broken.

I really feel for someone who wants to start learning this game, constantly getting one shotted or shattered down without a chance to react; its in my opinion absolutely ridiculous that Arena net have decided not to address this issue and keep things as they are. A simple solution to this would’ve been to slightly nerf the damage on backstab and give it an initiative cost of around (5-6), largely nerfing the thieves damage output after landing a backstab.

Its sad that people are trying to defend this class or claim that its balanced or inline with other classes.

I could write a whole essay about why I think thief and mesmer are both broken classes and their damage ratios really need to be looked at, because you cant provide classes with invul invis and shadowstep/blinks and also give them a high damage output, this pretty much makes the way they will be played very one dimensional.

Anyways, if you really think thief is balanced or in anyway in no need of nerfs I would be happy to show you otherwise in game.

I have been stuck in a tournament game for well over an hour.

Moving me out is very much appreciated.

@GankSinatra: A Guardian is a strong node control defender, whilst an engineer excels at being on a side node because they have great mobility and can move across the map if needed, whilst a bunker Guardian is restrained to a certain node, and if that node is avoided by the other team in favor of capturing side nodes than the guardian can find himself quickly rendered useless.
A Guardian depends on people showing up to his node and engaging him, if a team chooses to ignore, the Guardian than that is another issue all in it’s self.
I understand that is an unorthodox strategy, but we have perviously used it at times to great success.

A bunker Guardian is heavily countered by a bunker Engineer, who depends on bombs to deal his damage and has as much control as the guardian; although he isn’t as tanky, but than the guardian is forced to tank the bombs among the various different knock backs and control spells the engineer has to offer.
There is a counter to a bunker Guardian, but people are not yet familiar with all aspects of the game as I stated before, and what might seem to be broken to you right now, might not be in the near future, even without patch changes.

Kikkee.8206:

Xeph.4513:

Sorry to say, you sir are very ignorant; I don’t mean this as a personal attack on you or anything, but if you think that Arenanet is ignoring the pvp player base in favor of the pve players, than your sorely mistaken; also this completely bogus argument regarding the fact that they have earned all the money they can from pvp players and are now seeking to milk the pve players, isn’t only absurd but completely unfound and incorrect.

Open-ended personal attack. Let’s see if you back it up…
-| ig·no·rance? ?[ig-ner-uhns] Show IPA
noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
As stated above I never meant it as a personal attack, therefore it’s your choice to treat it as so. |-

For an mmorpg every player is potential revenue; they wouldn’t disregard a good amount of their player base in favor of another,

…missed this unfounded attempt at a rebuttle in your mashed up sentence the first time around. All I really need to say is read the patch notes, then come back and tell me they aren’t “disregarding a good amount of their player base for another.”

-| As explained under pvp balance takes long than pve balance, and if something is clearly broken to certain extent than they need to prioritize fixing that; please point me to something in pvp that is broken to the extent of making it unplayable. |-

a lot of people also seem to assume that pvp balance is the same as pve balance, its not.

Changes made to the pve environment are relatively easy and don’t effect the regular pve player in an overly large mannor, whilst changes in pvp can overturn a whole meta and thus need to be approached with care and excessive testing, so please don’t confuse this fact.

You just proved my point right here… " changes in pvp can overturn a whole meta and thus need to be approached with care and excessive testing". So you’re saying that ArenaNet has not committed enough resources to pvp to balance it in a sufficient or timely manner? Timely being before the original 2 million purchasers had not got fed up and moved on.

-| What I am saying is that ArenaNet is probably compiling information and giving you a better balance patch; instead of just making hasty changes that could otherwise harm the pvp environment; time factors are there because last I checked no company has unlimited resources or are expected to meet a certain persons time schedule. |-

Also please if you would, tell me about the “Pro teams” that have left Guildwars 2, just drop a few names, because I want to know out of interest.

The warrior from Team Paradigm streams to 5,910 more people in pandaland than the 90 or less (usually less) people that watch your stream Xelpher.

-| Last time I checked teams where compromised of more than one person, so you still fail to give me the name of one team that has left Guildwars 2 |-

Lastly if someone wants to leave this game in favor of another, than that’s a choice they made for any given amount of personal reasons and doesn’t always necessarily need to reflect on Arenanet.

Did you actually read my statement? The forums are riddled with people angered at the Guild Wars II pvp arrangement and I was merely attempting to offer an explanation (an explanation that you have not even addressed in this personal attack). How do the complaints regarding pvp not reflect on Arenanet? Should we blame, I dunno, Blizzard? Who else does it reflect on?

-| Every game has forums riddled with people who are angry about one thing or another, does that mean that every company needs to cater to them personally ?
As I said, just because Arenanet didn’t fit certain people’s time schedules doesn’t mean what they are doing is wrong, I will continue to standby that fact and wait for the pvp patch, if the changes made are not satisfactory than I will have a base to formulate an argument about how Arenanet failed. |-

In conclusion, before you go representing Team Last Resort to your potential consumer base, you may want to come with a better argument than blankly calling a hypothesis ignorant without posing any relevant testaments to it’s incorrectness.

I am sorry that you fail to see what it is I tried to get across here, but simply said view points differ; and if you choose to ignore blatant facts, that is your choice to make.

GankSinatra.2653:

uncop.5073:

GankSinatra.2653:

because they are the best bunker class at the moment, does that make them overpowered;

That is the definition of overpowered. Being the best at something where noone gets close. So yes, yes it does.

No, best is not the same as overpowered. Guardian is not the best because it dominates every single aspect of the bunker role, it’s the best because they have reliable tools for every kind of situation. Always nerfing whatever is the best just creates a race to the bottom, if the best thing isn’t overwhelmingly so.

They’re still the best arent they? Maybe it doesnt DOMINATE all areas, but it is the BEST in almost every kind of situation, according to your words. That still sounds OP to me, no matter what semantics are used as the underlying reason. They are simply by far the most effective in the most situations, that kinda reeks of OP to me when compared to others.

And buffing everyone else up is more of a problem. We would be much better off with classes playing like elementalists than if everyone had a one-shot skill on a 2 minute cooldown. Should we be giving everyone quickness, full hp aoe heals, permanent retaliations and multiple ways to stop a stomp? I very much disagree.

TTK is already a tad too high…this game needs some toning down if you ask me, not toning everything up.

Quick question, apart from having retaliation toned down (which I completely agree with.) What other things do you want nerfed/removed, because as far as I’m concerned many classes have several ways to stop a stomp; as a mesmer I have 2 stuns, a daze, chaos storm (with some rng luck) and moa.
Engineer has (Flamethrower and Big bomb)
Elementalists (Updraft, Earthquake and Tornado)

The full hp aoe heal, is very easy to counter and the guardian can be cc’d to stop it; if he has popped stability than remove the condition using several different boon removals.

Guardians are strong, but they are not a god class and by no means do I find them overpowered; the only thing I wish for is a nerf to retal and everything else is currently in line.

HasuGhost.5672:

What I’m trying to say is if you have some classes that are clearly the best in fulfilling some roles and therefore are needed in a team comp, aren’t they overpowered? You just gave an example in your last post. The guardian is the best bunker, period. Aren’t they a little overpowered in comparison to other classes in this role? I think if some classes are just mandatory in a team comp, the balance isn’t just there yet.

Okay here is where you make your argument completely unreasonable; there is always going to be that one class that excel’s in certain field, to ask Arenanet to make all classes be able to bunker aswell as guardian is next to impossible, albit that doesn’t mean that other classes cannot also fulfill the bunker role because engineer, necromancer and warrior all have very viable bunker builds, but guardian has better tools at their disposal. This good sir is what is known as a meta. Also a quick tip necromancers are very well equipped to kill bunker guardians or soften them up for their other team mates to take out.

There is always going to be a meta and people will always take what they believe best fulfills a certain role they require, for example no one is going to take a guardian into a roaming role, because frankittenhey just can’t do it and don’t have the necessary tools, whilst an ele is better equipped to take on that job, does that in your mind make ele overpowered ?

I find that what your looking for Arenanet to do it next to impossible, or simply they should delete all classes and keep just one.

I know teams that run without a mesmer or a thief; but currently guardian is a must have for any team, because they are the best bunker class at the moment, does that make them overpowered; not really. All I am asking if for you to clarify what is it that you find imbalanced.
Also contrary to popular belief its not always the wisest decision to put a mesmer on treb in khylo; as the game advances more and more people will come to see that.
It’s also very difficult to fit that criteria your looking for, most teams at the moment are going for the safe choice classes and no one has started to really branch out with the class selection.
Regardless you didn’t answer my question in a direct mannor, what is it that your trying to get at, be more specific in what it is you find broken and completely over the top, that its toppling balance.

HasuGhost.5672:

@Xeph:
With all due respect, I think just saying the game is fine isn’t very effective, especially considering you are playing a mesmer (like you mentioned). Why don’t you guys make a team comp without using mesmer/guardian/thief and beat other good teams? Then you post it in youtube and we can all actually believe balance is fine.

Instead of just generalizing the whole balance issue, like your doing at the moment; how about you point out what it is that you find unbalanced regarding pvp and I would be happy to answer that, because what your asking me to do here would require a lot of time for me to type up.
Regardless I will generalize, firstly I have been playing mesmer since bwe1 and I played it through out that time I’ve spent in Guildwars 2, not because its broken but because I enjoy the concept of the class, do I find mesmer to be broken?
Yes and no, mesmer is a very strong 1v1 profession and thus it puts it under the limelight, every player would like to be able to win their 1v1’s and thus a lot of focus has been put on the mesmer class, but at the moment the changes needed to make mesmer balanced are actually very minor. (Reduce damage on phantasms, Reduce damage on shatter and remove the immobilize from the illusion swap on the sword.)

Regarding removing thief, guardian and mesmer from our team comp, I’m sorry but I couldn’t help but laugh a little at that statement, because we happen to run every class in our team comp between now and than, do we always run with a thief (no), do we always run with a mesmer (no) and same as true about guardian.
Do we find that it is the most effective team comp, in our case yes. Although I have seen many successful teams run without one of each of those classes.
What is it that your trying to get at ?

Kikkee.8206:

Nearly every post in here is about anet ignoring pvp. No balancing, no e-sports, no rankings, no queues for solo/duo’s… here is the reason why, pass it on:

PvP’ers don’t spend money. Once we buy the game, that’s it, they’ve got all they can from us. PvE’ers spend real money to get gold for crafting, gear, containers… Put plainly, there’s no money in the pvp portion of this game.

Not even the ‘pro’ pvp teams are staying with this game atm. They’ve stooped to playing with panda’s. So if you’re looking for competitive pvp, sadly, this is not the place.

Sorry to say, you sir are very ignorant; I don’t mean this as a personal attack on you or anything, but if you think that Arenanet is ignoring the pvp player base in favor of the pve players, than your sorely mistaken; also this completely bogus argument regarding the fact that they have earned all the money they can from pvp players and are now seeking to milk the pve players, isn’t only absurd but completely unfound and incorrect.

For an mmorpg every player is potential revenue; they wouldn’t disregard a good amount of their player base in favor of another, a lot of people also seem to assume that pvp balance is the same as pve balance, its not.
Changes made to the pve environment are relatively easy and don’t effect the regular pve player in an overly large mannor, whilst changes in pvp can overturn a whole meta and thus need to be approached with care and excessive testing, so please don’t confuse this fact.

Also please if you would, tell me about the “Pro teams” that have left Guildwars 2, just drop a few names, because I want to know out of interest.

Lastly if someone wants to leave this game in favor of another, than that’s a choice they made for any given amount of personal reasons and doesn’t always necessarily need to reflect on Arenanet.

@Poxxia: Firstly thanks for the reply.
I understand that the situation has been blown way out of proportion, and that people tend to over exaggerate the situation; but whats really ticking me off is the fact that most of these arguments are without base or research.

I would suggest that people take their time and do proper research on all the classes; because so far I have found this game to be more balanced than others, yes in some regards certain builds are completely countered by others, but thats part of the fun of pvp.
I just hope people could see past the same things, and look at the bigger picture, balance is still in a good place and there are no more than a few tweaks needed, and as time goes by more and more people will realize this.

Regarding my build, just add me to friends and whisper me in game at anytime and I would be happy to oblige.

The features that are needed to make the game an Esport haven’t been implemented yet, there fore you can’t really expect there to be much interest generated on twitch. (Simply its boring to watch teams do random tournaments over and over.)

The game has been out for round about a month, so don’t expect it to be a twitch sensation, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done before that can happen.

I just baffles me how people can set such a high expectation, when a game has only been around for a month, give it some time and than start complaining; better yet take a break until they have implemented all the features they have promised and try the game than.

I personally find that the balance and the idea of the game hold promise to be an Esport, albit things have grown a little stale for me with the lack of options in Spvp; I’m just hoping that Arenanet takes their time and approaches the next step with care.

When you first target them check under their name, if they have a title up the illusions won’t have it. Also the main mesmer tends to have a lot of boons running at any given time, signets are also another thing to look out for (if not used during combat). Otherwise just pay good attention to their movements.

Hey, I normally don’t post much on the forums, but upon seeing this I just had to comment.

I’m just sick of the obscene amount of whine on these forums, especially that regarding balance in this game; because it’s my personal belief that Arenanet did an excellent job with releasing a game with this amount of balance and polish.
While I do agree there is still work to be done regarding class balance; I just don’t believe its as titanic as some people make out to be.
I also would like to point out to people that this game is more so about balancing builds, instead of classes; because each class has several builds available to them. Like I can have problems vs a good ele when I run a phantasm build, but I have a much easier time vs that same ele running a shatter build.

All I can say is find a build that works for you, try out different classes and just try and have fun with the game.