Guild Wars 2

DevilsGlare.7658:

Chaith.8256:

DevilsGlare.7658:

The “top” players right now focus on their small skirmishes and 1v1s. It nearly feels and seems as if they’re building for themselves and in a selfish way. This is a team game, and with that should mean team synergy. So, why the kitten is there a bunch of wanna-be 1v1 hero’s running around? (Rhetorical)

^If anyone has a high opinion of their plays and strategies, thinks they’ve been around the block and would beat those young whippersnappers at the top now, that’d be you, who suggested the 2-1-2 strat that imploded the universe.

If I have come across arrogant and superior sounding it wasn’t my intention, but you’re down there with me, especially after engaging me in this conversation lol

Can’t, friend. Currently in Korea, therefore I’m a “non-compete” for the NA scene. If you didn’t know, I’ve been here for the past 2 years (which is why our team disbanded).

I’ll be competing in EU shortly, upon my arrival in Germany. Hopefully you’re still around after this whole celestial deal. I wouldn’t miss the chance to show you what you really are. It’ll be like the old days. Stay small, Chaith.

Vain your wisdom is infinite!
who dis your arguing with ?
<3

Dojo.1867:

I would say that more direct dmg is not necessarly a bad thing. For example it is great for rangers to open up direct dmg builds.

The classes that already deal a lot of dmg with little effort should be nerfed/reworked differently. Especially thief is really problemativ and needs to become less polarising. Not only will it always remain kittenty in the hand of weak players and too good in the hand of pro players with the current design – I also think like no other classes it occupies the slot of roaming/glass cannon direct dps. This should actually be accessible to much more classes like ele, ranger, rifle engi etc but they all lose viability if they are so easy to kill by thieves while also lacking the stealth and mobility that thief has.

Well, I do agree with your points of increasing build diversity, but the problem is this change just made classes that were strong, even stronger; defensive rune sets saw no buff, therefore its caused damage to go completely out of control.

I had hoped that there would be a sort of global nerf to classes that dealt too much damage, mainly thief and mesmer.

silvermember.8941:

infantrydiv.1620:

The problem occurs when you have a rank 1 person who just bought the game or someone who just decided to click “solo queue” while doing the queensdale champion train wind up in a game with top 100-500 players because Arenanet chooses to start their MMR at an absurdly high level.

The other day in a solo queue game I found myself 3v1ing on a neuted mid point for over a minute and a half. We were two capped on the other nodes. My team apparently lost a 2v4.

The reason why this is happening in my opinion is this: In single player games like chess, you can start out someone’s MMR very high because there is no way that a person with an MMR of 1000 will ever beat someone with a skill level of 2000.
In Guild Wars 2, you have 4 other people on your team, which means with a huge amount of carry, we can see people with an MMR of 1000 winning in games of people say, with MMRs of 1800, because the 1000 newbie has people rated 2000 on his team, or there is just a particularly hard counter comp.

Blame Arenanet for not changing the MMR system, instead of insulting the new players because guess what you need those new players if you want sPvP to keep getting resources.

The older players have to keep pressing until a dev aka Justin comes in and tell us the status of the new MMR or ladder system. Until then, there is no reason to be bashing the PvEers for Anet’s failure.

With that said, it is better to be nice to the new players because by the time Arenanet hopeful decides to introduce a new MMR system which wont happen until May 27. the initial excite over the new changes in sPvP would have died down and You (veteran PvP) better hope as many new players stuck to it as possible.

tl;dr
Don’t get mad at the new players get mad at Arenanet for not having the foresight to see the MMR system being bad for both new and old players.

Well said.

brannigan.9831:

I think personally that both sides of the “toxic” issue need to grow the hell up. Stop whining at people when everything doesn’t go your way and conversely learn the ignore function and shrug off ragers. I also think its a totally overblown issue. We have too many special flowers on both sides of it.

There are no sides, its just a group of people making the game unpleasant.
I don’t understand why people assume there are sides, toxic behaviour is unacceptable in any shape or form.

Oprah.1347:

Sorry bud, but as much as I respect your play from the past I have to disagree with the general scope of your post.

You cannot isolate this ‘toxicity’ to the sPvP crowd. This toxicity is a symptom of the anonymity of the internet, not of some ultra elitist faction – this is nothing abnormal for a game in modern times. Is it acceptable? No. But that’s a much larger issue.

To be honest, I find it kind of naive for you to even consider that the tiny pre-patch sPvP crowd (which is who I assume you’re addressing) would even be large enough to cause this ‘toxicity’ on its own, as it is now easily dwarfed by the influx of new players. What is actually toxic are these kind of finger pointing posts, instead of writing about how all players in general should treat each other with decency you chose to single out and blame a small group of people, perpetuating the already partisan atmosphere that exists in this game. Xeph, people are jerks sometimes. Plain and simple, it doesn’t matter which aspect of the game they identify themselves with, we all have equal capacity to be an kitten .

In your mini discussion on compassion for other players did you ever consider that maybe the angry kid slinging mud at people during a game is bullied daily at school (or hell, even work). It doesn’t excuse their behaviour, not at all – but like you said everyone has outside influences that may be setting them off on that day. Honestly if you you don’t like what they’re saying do what any sane person would do: report them, block them – move on.

We shouldn’t be trying to pit people against each other with posts like this. I could point out toxicity anywhere in this game (rangers in pve, fractal AR, speed running/full zerk comps), but what good does it do to attempt to shame and alienate a group of players? None. How about we just agree that people need to be kinder in general instead of pointing the finger at one group.

Maybe when we’re done we can all hug each other and roll down a grassy hill like we used to do as kids. Or play this pokeman kitten I hear about sometimes, what the hell is a moltres anyway?

I do agree with what your saying, there is no way that toxicity would stop, but at the moment its just amazing how there is of it going around; I am fully aware its never going to stop, all I am saying is hopefully more people make an active effort to try and avoid that kind of behavior.
I had a game earlier where two people were basically afk in base, because one of them had a legendary and the other proceeded to call him a pve scrub, the argument lasted the whole game.
The amount of trash talk in map chat, far surpasses that of release.

Whilst I do understand that this won’t stop, I am just hoping that people actively try and stop that behavior.

Moltres is a chicken.

When I was discussing those points, I wasn’t doing so for the point of view of someone who has a team; infact I rarely team que anymore, but rather either solo que, or duo que with a friend.

I have on several occasions landed with people from pve land, but I have also learned they have capacity to learn if you communicate with them, if not raging on map chat and being generally toxic bares no fruit, it also could lead to increasing other players frustration within the game. There is no point in generally being hurtful, if it bares no fruit, in this case 9 out of 10 times it doesn’t, in which case there is no point in doing it.
Just because I used to play this game competitively and happen to have a team doesn’t render me unsympathetic, to the situation, it also doesn’t mean that I never solo que, nor does it mean that I have not encountered players that have no clue what they are doing.
The fact of the matter is I just don’t find a burning desire to advertise it, or condemn a whole side of the community to ridicule, I find it more productive to actually try and assist them. It also helps nurture better pvp players, then trying to drive them away.

In every match making to date there is a certain aspect of luck, you might end up with better players then the opposing team or worse, there is nothing you can do about the luck of the draw, there is no system out there that can guarantee you a 100% fair match. Anets system may seem faulty, but that also can be attributed to the small population size of the experienced pvp players, meaning that more times then not your going to end up with people that are fairly new at pvp/

If you find that the way I phrased things is insulting to yourself, then you need only look at the content of my message, I am not trying to personally insult anyone; but if you are so hyper sensitive that you find my choice of words insulting to yourself, then I apologize regarding that matter, I will edit the previous message so that it may suit your taste.

Regarding your last message, that is 100% bogus; the lifeblood of any competitive game is its casual community, they make up the largest amount of viewers, they are the ones the pour resources into the company, that can then further better its game. There is no game out there comprised of only competitive players that has seen any success in the long run.
If you cannot accept that there are going to be people playing this game, who are not skilled or have a shallow understanding of it, then you best change games.

To argue about balance is one thing, but to argue that its fine to ridicule a side of the community, that can only help to serve pvp, is rather daft.
Que pops were terrible post patch, the empty mists was enough to make me log out the instant I logged in.

Oh and for the comment about me trying to get a job with Arena-net, well its been awhile since I have argued with someone so daft, you sir are not only the problem with the community in this game, but just generally mis-informed.

I have gone through your previous posts, and I see the trend you have been following, I just have a question why don’t you just quit the game if you hate it so much, or have you made it your personal quest that everyone else should hate it as much as yourself ?

The luck there was in reference to the fact that phanta landed all those attacks while the thief was in stealth (even asked him myself); but whatever floats your boat man.

Anyways yet again, you twist things to try and justify your argument, there is no real point in this thread, I would rather you don’t use me as reference for any of your arguments.

Good Day :/

Ceraldor.3160:

:/

Thief is the only class that does not abide by this, because they have an excess amount of stealth / evades / gap closer’s / damage on demand; they are possibly the single best class for keeping people down, along with having the high burst potential and great team utility; they are also very survivable.
Running anything but a glass thief is akin to having diarrhea instead of a cheese burger; it just makes no sense.

Just in retort to the comment that you made earlier about me crying about S/D thief, I also did happen to mention earlier in my post that thief is the exception to the rule; regardless you mentioning me complaining about a class that was widely regarded as broken at the time, just proves to me that you are just reaching for straws and coming short.

As Aereniel.7356 put it, you are just looking for people to agree with, it seems that posting further in this thread is rather pointless, proof to that is everyone that have tried discussing the topic only to be put down by you constantly stating that they have missed the point of the thread. Not only that but the childish retort to my previous post just makes it seem like you are nothing but a waste of time; so i’ll just end it here, good luck with whatever point it is that your trying to prove.

Here is my problem with your post, you make gross over simplifications in order to support your point, which now has become rather moot.

Your claims of a bad player being able to win over a good player, just because both are running berserker, is overly watered down;its like both players are beating down on each other; rather you cater everything so that it may suit the argument you are making.
I have never lost a match in this game; and thought to myself gosh if that guy didn’t crit me so much we would’ve won the game, yeah sorry team I got out rng’d.
Truth of the matter is, there is always something you can do to prevent this from happening; getting caught in a burst is mostly through the players own error, maybe I over extended to secure a kill. I can look back on those numbers and think if he didn’t crit me so many times in the burst maybe I would’ve survived it, or I could view it as me making a mistake which got me caught in a bad position and overall caused me to die. This also breeds better players, and a better train of thought, over just assuming you lost purely due to rng; which don’t get me wrong does play a factor (You can take this in a 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3 scenario if you so wish.)

Also I understand that you are trying to “theory craft”, but this subject is so heavily saturated on these forums, regarding tank builds vs zerker builds; there is no shortage of information, this provides nothing new to the argument other then the fact of some tailor made arguments in order to suit the op’s view points.

I apologise if I am coming off as rude; but the over simplifications and tailor made arguments in order to support a notion that is based purely around the op’s viewpoint of how zerker 1v1’s playout; and then dismissing everyone else as not understanding the core subject which you are trying to discuss, does not make “Theory crafting”.

Ceraldor.3160:

@Xeph:
You guys need to understand that I’m not talking directly to gw2 and the conquest mode but much more about XvsX fights in general.
I know that conquest has other rules than a normal fight like deathmatch.

Though since this is theory-crafting, my point is valid saying that offensive players are more dependent on luck therefor have the chance at winning against better players but at the risk of losing against worse players.

why are you only looking at one side of the coin; what if a better player is using zerker amulet, but looses to a worse player who is playing solider/amulet sustain, which I can assure you is infinitely easier to pull off.

For you to make the claim that playing a defensive build; which in essence means that you can focus on surviving and dealing moderate damage through out the fight with little to no risk of being insta gibbed; having the safety net of high hp pools, mitigation and sustain, is harder then running glass, where you need to land your damage, survive by mitigating damage through timed use of cool downs. I don’t know sir but the claim you are making is down right absurd.

Its like claiming that is easier to walk a tight rope with a safety net, then without one.
One can afford to make mistakes with little repercussion; whilst the other has no margin of error available to them.

Also your argument regarding luck, every game has that; there is no way to around the RNG of crits; or possible evades to skills used. This though has little to no impact on the skill required to play the build.

The fact also that your making the assumption that worse players play glass in order to kill better players is beyond far fetched; the worse player also risks getting destroyed and having 0 impact.
Had he engaged with a tanky build, he would accomplish a lot more then had he gone in with a glass build.
This can also be seen clearly through the huge decline in people playing berserker builds, its just no fun dying instantly for someone who doesn’t understand how the game works.

Defensive play has always been a lot easier then offensive play.

This thread makes no sense at all; simply said the reason that the preference at the moment is to play tanky is not synonymous with any of the reasons you have stated.

The reason people have stopped playing glass on anything but thief is because your risk of death to irrelevant aoe damage is too high; along with the fact that most glass canon burst spec’s have a hard time dealing with the out of control condition spam.

I will just give you an example for my personal experiences; take for example a team fight where a spirit ranger decides to focus on a shatter mesmer; it becomes very difficult for a mesmer to deal damage in the teamfight because he is so pressured purely from the spirit rangers 1 spam, that he risks going down before dealing any damage; often forcing the mesmer to disengage the fight until that ranger focuses fire else where.
Had this ranger been focusing fire onto a necro or a warrior, they would be a lot more durable and would be able to sustain / transfer those conditions.

Glass just suffers from easily being shut down in the current meta, its basically like saying I can deal 500 damage 100% every teamfight versus someone saying I can deal 750 damage but that depends on 200 different factors that could occur in the team fight.
In almost all situations you would take the dependable 500 damage.

Thief is the only class that does not abide by this, because they have an excess amount of stealth / evades / gap closer’s / damage on demand; they are possibly the single best class for keeping people down, along with having the high burst potential and great team utility; they are also very survivable.
Running anything but a glass thief is akin to having diarrhea instead of a cheese burger; it just makes no sense.

Berserker in this current meta is just too hard to pull off, with so little reward that people don’t run it anymore; its just easier to play that way. Its by no means an indicator of the persons skill level.

Sorry but I just disagree immensely with the op.

jayson.6512:

HPLT.7132:

I am not crying. I bring up fact…Your 3 last post after I posted some maths is:
“You dont consider this and that” but you cant give examples…you just post over and over again that I am just a bad player. However I cant see you in the top1000 which means you dont do PVP and if you go WvWvW then troll there. People like you let Arenanet reconsider there warriors changes and seriously 8% nerf are not even close to what this class should be nerfed to.

well my healing signet didn’t save me from dying when i fought against Necromancer with minions Power + Condi? my so called OP zerker stance and HS i melt in seconds

Healing Signet was unable to save you from certain death ?!?
I suppose they should revise it then, so that you may survive every encounter possible!!
J/K :P

On a more serious note, I would like to see healing signet having a condition that needs to be fulfilled to in order to provide the healing; I find it kind of strange why it has the highest healing output out of all the signets, yet there is no pre requisite to its activation.
Ele Signet = Casting spells
Thief = Dealing Damage
Mesmer = Keeping illusions up

All those signets have a pre requisite that helps keep them in check, its daunting why the warrior is the only class that just gets a free passive heal from his signet, a long with immune skills.

I know a lot of the discussion revolves around the fact that they are still kill-able so healing signet receiving more nerfs isn’t really warranted.
The thing is for the amount of damage / pressure they deal; they are waaay to sustained, compared to classes in the same damage board.
Warrior isn’t really a viable target in team fights, due to the high sustain and immune’s they have; yet the pressure they deal makes them hard to ignore.
I find that to be unbalanced, any class that is able to deal high amounts of damage, should not have so much sustain; and have it be passive to boot.

The passive sustain means that the warrior never needs to worry about getting his heal interrupted, they never need to worry about going defensive to get their heal cast off; which means they can deal a steady stream of pressure, and even allows them to play reckless at times, with little to no punishment, and what little punishment you dish out, will be passively sustained.

I find it worrying that people are able to defend something that is so clearly over the top; passive sustain of that magnitude should never be made available to a class that can deal great hybrid damage, has some of the best CC in the game, the highest amount of immune skills, has a large hp pool along with great defensive stats, and has great condition clear to boot.
Why would a class that has all those attributes also require such a huge amount of passive sustain, it only helps amplify the amount of CC and damage they can dish out.

What I suggest is to either give warriors a pre-requisite to their signet passive activation, or heavily nerfing the passive and giving the activation a secondary effect.

keep in mind I haven’t revised any of those numbers these are just suggestions
HS
100 hps at 0 Adrenaline
200 hps at 1 Adrenaline
300 hps at 2 Adrenaline
400 hps at 3 Adrenaline
Active
Heals the warrior for 2.7k
Heals for 800 more for each stage of Adrenaline
<I do understand that the above brings it closer to Adrenal Healing, but I am just bouncing ideas here>

Or

Make the passive heal for 150 hps the passive persists through the activation, but we could look at increasing the activation substantially.
Activation = 6k

All I am trying to say here is give warrior sustain some form of counter play; and to all the people saying poison; I would hardly say that is counter play I think that people in this thread have explained that far better than I could so lets just leave it at that.

Hey, so I know I am going to get a lot of hate for this, but I thought I would do it anyway, hopefully it will spark some nice discussion.

I recently picked up the game again, albeit my low experience at the moment, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I had hoped would have changed in the three months I had left the game.

Passive play, I was really surprised that passive play still remains at the top, especially the warrior healing signet, and to a lesser degree spirit rangers.
I do understand that these two classes could use a little bit of a nerf, and it would bring them perfectly inline with everything else, in the warriors case the fix is simple; its just that I find it frustrating to be beaten down by a class that has room for so much error because the sustain is infinite.

Burst Damage, halting strike on Mesmer hasn’t seen a reduction; I find that at the moment it does far too much damage, along with Thief and Ele burst; because lets face it once other classes get nerfed, the former kings will rise to the top again, but if their damage is also brought down inline, I believe that people are going to try and diversify their class compositions.

All in all, since I do lack the experience with this patch, I was wondering if we could have a civil discussion regarding the matter, because I am genuinely interested in what the community thinks, since I have been so out of touch.

Thank you.

Fishbait.6723:

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

Axis, Azshene never sync que’d we as a team are 100% against sync que and have never done it ourselves; the only thing we said on stream was that sync que does work, and that you just need to que at the same time (which is common knowledge).
If you have any proof, or you have seen us on stream doing otherwise, please feel free to link it all our vods are there.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Poxxia.1547:

Xeph.4513:

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Can’t help asking: What is an enjoyable meta?
Imo the GC-burst was not enjoyable, nor were the unkillable , ever-evading classes. Nor is the current meta focused on conditions. Personally I have always been a support-minded person when it comes to gaming, and GC-burst and some exclusive classes access to it without real punishment really killed that part of the fun for me.
Is burst really a “better” meta? Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion and elaboration on the matter..

The fact is, although the GC Meta wasn’t the greatest, there was a lot of teamwork involved and supporting your team mates was very viable; being coordinated in team fight also mattered a lot

let me give you a few examples of this, as a Mesmer dealing with conditions was difficult and having lost sustain; for this reason I always had to coordinate with phantaram that I run in for his heals and move out, I would at times push forward to lower pressure on our guard or ele, until the re-sustained.
In the current meta that sort of play is no longer possible; the heavy condi meta means that you need to bring your own “personal” condition removal.
S/D thieves diving the backline, means that no matter how coordinated you are, you still can’t protect your backline, as he is free to do it as many times he likes.

If you notice most classes that are brought in, are classes that are able to duel very well in a 1v1 (S/D Thief, Spirit Ranger, Necro and Engineer), they are also classes that are very self sufficient, meaning they can hold their own with little support.

This doesn’t mean that teamwork is out of the window, but it does mean that you can be a lot less coordinated and still achieve great results, but fact is its a lot more boring to play then the old GC meta, because its mainly about spamming condi’s from afar.

it’s really hard to explain all of it in writing, if you want to discuss it further, I would be happy to get on voice com and do so.

The point is that is just your opinion. Which is obviously what the forums are for. My initial post is just my opinion.

The old meta sucked way worse. There were less viable classes. Then people did have success with 2 eles. Then you did need a mesmer (till BM came along) to cover back point. It was so boring to find a group and you HAD to have a mesmer, at least 1 ele and a guardian. Now you dont NEED anything. Which is good, and means nothing is that op.

Yes some builds need toning down, but not necro. Necro isnt OP at all. And most good necros agree with me. The people who think it is OP are people who played ele and mesmer and are used to those classes just facerolling everyone.

I do agree to that the forum is for opinions.
but there are less viable classes at the moment then back in the old meta, that much is true.
Mesmer, ele and warrior. are not seeing competitive play.
Previously it was just warrior and necro.
so no there are not more viable classes now.
I also know a lot of good Necro’s that agree its a little too strong, regardless that is up to debate.

Poxxia.1547:

Xeph.4513:

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Can’t help asking: What is an enjoyable meta?
Imo the GC-burst was not enjoyable, nor were the unkillable , ever-evading classes. Nor is the current meta focused on conditions. Personally I have always been a support-minded person when it comes to gaming, and GC-burst and some exclusive classes access to it without real punishment really killed that part of the fun for me.
Is burst really a “better” meta? Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion and elaboration on the matter..

The fact is, although the GC Meta wasn’t the greatest, there was a lot of teamwork involved and supporting your team mates was very viable; being coordinated in team fight also mattered a lot

let me give you a few examples of this, as a Mesmer dealing with conditions was difficult and having lost sustain; for this reason I always had to coordinate with phantaram that I run in for his heals and move out, I would at times push forward to lower pressure on our guard or ele, until the re-sustained.
In the current meta that sort of play is no longer possible; the heavy condi meta means that you need to bring your own “personal” condition removal.
S/D thieves diving the backline, means that no matter how coordinated you are, you still can’t protect your backline, as he is free to do it as many times he likes.

If you notice most classes that are brought in, are classes that are able to duel very well in a 1v1 (S/D Thief, Spirit Ranger, Necro and Engineer), they are also classes that are very self sufficient, meaning they can hold their own with little support.

This doesn’t mean that teamwork is out of the window, but it does mean that you can be a lot less coordinated and still achieve great results, but fact is its a lot more boring to play then the old GC meta, because its mainly about spamming condi’s from afar.

it’s really hard to explain all of it in writing, if you want to discuss it further, I would be happy to get on voice com and do so.

Thank you for the support Poxxia, I would ignore Isaac if I were you, he is on some sort of crusade for CC, and it would do no good to argue with someone like that; just let him have his way.
He has gone out of his way to dig up several posts.

Thank you aswell to everyone else for the support, we really do appreciate it and it does mean a lot to us. The support from the community has been immense and we are very humbled by it, it really does bring tears to my eye’s thank you, you guys are the best.

Authority.6145:

Xeph.4513:

I tanked my elo by playing mesmer in a solo que dominated by necro’s spirit rangers and s/d thieves; I am currently attempting to go up with s/d thief, so I will see how it goes.

No you didn’t. In fact you were on your S/D Thief the first day of soloque. I was with you twice and against you once. We won two games together and the other game you lost by my team by double points.

But whatever makes you sleeping like a hero at night.

Yes and then I tanked my rating by playing mesmer constantly trying different builds and trying to see if I can make it work; I never claimed I havn’t played any other class apart from mesmer.

Defektive.7283:

Darkdanjal.3401:

honestly ArenaNet big fail on your part, TP or as it is now Team Curse is by far the best team on EU, I enjoyed every match of them and now they are not THERE, its a bunch of bull kitten….there goes my interest on PAX and Im sure many players will follow.

kind regards

Darkdanjal

Seriously? It’s not Arenanets fault, if anything you should write to the UAE and complain.

Who cares if they are the best, worst, or mediocre if they can’t get permission from their own government to play.

This has nothing to do with the UAE, since we are allowed to compete outside our country, and we have done so in a lot of lan events in the states, its just that Arenanet hadn’t drawn up contracts for Asian countries.

http://www.wcg.com/6th/history/wcg2004/wcg2004_players.asp (In the USA, check under counter-strike condition zero and u will see that the UAE participated.) please check that sort of information before posting

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Alright lets make a few things clear mesmer and elementalist dps is high, but right now their kill potential is no where near being as potent as necro.
I could go into detail regarding the matter; but I think that the subject has already been saturated.
If you fail to see how strong necro is in the current meta, then I doubt anything I could say would change your mind.

The only thing keeping that burst in check is necros and s/d thief. You remove that and I dread to think about another 7 months of a mesmer/ele/guardian meta.

The thing is people EXPECT to be dominant on their mesmer and ele because they always have been dominant and overpowered. Now necro is viable people cry about it. I dont think it is because necro is OP. I think it is just better than it was. You can still kill a necro easily.

Alot of the known players became known because they played mesmer and ele. As they were the best classes for a long long time. So there is a bias from the known players towards expecting these classes to be dominant. Whilst nobody with legitamacy speaks up for necro or other “newer” classes.

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Alright lets make a few things clear mesmer and elementalist dps is high, but right now their kill potential is no where near being as potent as necro.
I could go into detail regarding the matter; but I think that the subject has already been saturated.
If you fail to see how strong necro is in the current meta, then I doubt anything I could say would change your mind.

I tanked my elo by playing mesmer in a solo que dominated by necro’s spirit rangers and s/d thieves; I am currently attempting to go up with s/d thief, so I will see how it goes.

Sync que works, tested by several people and confirmed.

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

yea the writer really likes that word :<
I would say that I am like a kitten!

sorrow.2364:

Xeph.4513:

Why are you so bitter ?

Because there are so many design flaws in PvP that there isn’t so much to being happy after 1 year of constant updates leading to nothing.

The meta was broken since launch and there wasn’t really a period in which you were able to say “Finally I can play in a balanced game”.

All I see in the sPvP forums are suggestion aiming to make changes that will lead again on imbalances, shifting the meta again in situations in which some profession overshadow all the others.

Mesmer has been and still is a must-take in every tPvP match because of its utilities. In the current meta Mesmer didn’t survived because of not-so-good condition removals. After you’ll bring again Mesmer in the meta, it will be again a must take in every team because of portal, IoL, Moa/TW and so on.

Necromancers and Rangers, after their conditions and spirits will be toned down, will be again unviable and brought in no team ever, because, in the way they are designed, they bring pretty much nothing in the conquest gamemode.

Probably the mother of every issue is that the competitive gamemode is only one and that some professions are designed to be the best at it..?

I have nothing against TP, it’s just that you are the biggest voice in the PvP community, but, still, it looks like you want to bring the meta as it was 6-7 months ago.

So because we don’t share the same balance views as yourself, it means thakittens fine to take shots at us ?
Sorry its just not making sense to me, because I also disagree with how you view balancing but you don’t see me coming on the forums and getting mad at you :<
just try and treat others as you would like to be treated is all I am saying.

But yes on topic, I do agree that mesmers at the moment are not viable in the meta, does that mean they are a weak class ? no
do they need buffs ? no
Fact of the matter is, that if necro and thief are nerfed, then mesmer will once again be viable and in my personal opinion a little too strong, espically damage wise, so what I would suggest is to:
Nerf the damage on berserker.
Remove the mightstacks given on mirror blade and replace it with regen/retaliation.
Reduce the mental torment trait to only giving 10% increased mindwrack damage.
Reduce Halting strike damage by 15% (its a free windwrack right now)

Hopefully that should bring them in line damage wise.
I am sure there are more things that need to be looked at, but I personally would start there.

sorrow.2364:

How can the profession which brings the best team utility and ridiculous skills unviable in tournament play?

It is viable, but the meta tells you that you shouldn’t play Mesmer.

Once ArenaNet will tone down conditions on Necro and spirits on Ranger, as they will surely do, we’ll come back to the Mesmer-Guardian-Engi-Thief-Ele meta, so TP can jump to the bandwagon as they always did, Necro and Ranger will be unviable again, everyone is happy and the previous state of the things is preserved.

There is even a better solution, give Mesmer more damage, more control and more utility. Like, increase the shatter damage to deal 20k+ damage, increase Moa duration to 20s and make Illusion of Life an unconditional ress. So Memser will be broken OP again in tPvP and everyone is happy, again.

Why are you so bitter ?

I love all my Mesmer brothers, may you rest in peace or until the next balance patch…..maybe :<

Romek.4201:

most people which are now in leaderboards farmed it with premade vs SoloQers^^

even when watch top 100 teamstreams they get 50% of the time randomteams – so will see

edit: oh and when we have finaly a real SoloQ you will see a new Phenomen in the forum: The Elohell^^

This statement is untrue during peak hours, we mainly meet teams I would go as far as saying 90% of our games are against teams, only in the later hours of the night do we get solo quers, that’s normally when we stop queuing.

shimmerless.4560:

anyone who tells you that mes sucks in pvp has no clue what they’re talking about and i wouldn’t trust them to operate a toaster

that said, you should choose a class you love and enjoy playing, not a class just because you think it might satisfy your (mostly self-imagined) constraints

But I can operate a toaster :<

Thank you for organising this it was a pleasure to play in, I look forward to more events like this in the future.
Thank you all at Arena Net.

Sathyir.5139:

TRoopEr.5364:

only if you are the member of TP.

So basicaly no.

There were other non eu players who participated this weekend, xeph wasnt exceptional so stop this nonsense pls.

Save it Sathyir, he is not worth the words your typing to him; maybe someday he will grow up.

Jesiah.2457:

I’m not going to try to argue either side here, if I do, then I apologize in advance … but I’m going to say that one thing is for complete certain here.

Mist League’s TO’s is / are about as competent as Arenanet, and that sure as hell isn’t saying very much at all, as I’m sure so very many of you are already aware anyway. My thought on this is that I was only aware it was best of 3, and on top of that, aren’t these matches shoutcasted / streamed as well?

Not only does TP have time to rest up, as some have stated, but the entire time that CC is fighting through, doesn’t it seem as though TP would have all that time to form a tactic against what they’re going up against, while CC is not provided with quite the same opportunity?

On top of changed rules, no similar break period or as much time to mentally / tactically prepare, I’d say this was definitely an extremely amateur move on Mistleague’s / Arenanet’s (? unsure) part, and if this kind of pathetic level of ‘organization’ continues, I sure as hell am not going to keep bothering with this game in any level of seriousness.

This is one side of the coin; we had matches the previous day, which CC could’ve watched and made tactics for.
We wish our matches were on the same day, because there were no teams for us to warm up with, so we essentially came into the tournament without any sort of warmup, save for 1 tournament que against a pug, our nerves and lack of warm up show in our first game, I know people are claiming CC was exhausted, but they themselves have claimed no such thing, infact it was advantageous that their mind was already in the game, while we were coming in cold. If you were to ask me, I would say the teams that have already warmed up are at a huge advantage.

But then again that is one side of the coin no ?

We were both informed by the admins prior to the first match starting; the choice to dispute the admins and explain your situation was open.
I even recall them putting it up on map chat, I doubt that you played all the way to the 3rd match without knowing it was a bo5, and had that been true I would’ve seen you dispute the admins at that point.

This really is quiet strange.

Isaac.6041:

Vayra.3290:

Those are all fair points, but you MUST put it in the rules before the tournament starts. As a TO you cannot change the rules mid-tournament if you want this to become a popular thing as it will completely undermine any trust in you as the TO. In a competitive setting the rules are absolute, and if you as the TO is not above breaking them you cannot expect the teams to follow the rules either.

Agreed. You don’t just change the World Series to best of 9 or best of 5 or best of 3 just because you think it will “add excitement”. World Series is best of 7 and that’s final.

Rules are rules and they should have been followed. Hopefully, they will be next weekend.

Don’t compare little league to the World Series good sir

The option of contesting the admins rules was always there, but CC chose not to, if you feel like the admins are making a bad decision tell them; this would’ve been a great asset to them at the time, had CC contested this choice I am sure that the admins would’ve sympathized with their cause, my only quell here is your calling the admins out, when you didn’t speak up and remained silent about the matter when you could’ve contested it, and then brought it onto the forums calling for bad organizing.
Had you expressed that the situation wasn’t fair I am sure everyone would’ve been on your side including myself.

Krayiss.4926:

Xeph.4513:

I am just going to clear a few things up.
`
Firstly people claiming that we forced Arena-net / dev’s to change necro; are clearly not thinking straight, firstly if we had the power to do something like that, we surely wouldn’t post on the forums regarding the matter, its sad but posting on these forums and being exposed to how toxic people is becoming more unappealing day by day.

Regarding the tournament, if team CC felt like they were being cheated; could’ve simply refused to play the bo5 and gone to the forums and made a thread about it, instead they chose to continue playing, had they won I doubt that there would be a thread regarding this matter on the forums right now.
The tournament admins made it clear that it was going to be a bo5 prior to the match starting, CC did not protest this and neither did we; had CC refused and asked for bo3 or made any case on the spot, then I would sympathise with them regarding this matter.

There was a lot of ways this could’ve been resolved, but to loose and then make a forum post about it, not only that but bringing in all sorts of unfound and unsupported nonsense isn’t only unprofessional, but frankly childish behaviour.
This whole situation could’ve been remedied earlier, but the poor choice of waiting until the matches are over, to complain seems rather shortsighted.

We also had no warning this was going to be a bo5, but adhered to what the tournament admins wanted.

Stop feeding the trolls, stick to the OP about the BO3 rules being changed for the last match. If CC disputed that then they prolly woulda just kicked them out.

I doubt that the admins, when have kicked them out and ended the tournament right there and then, more so they would’ve tried to find a middle ground, since there were 3,000+ viewers watching, and it would be unfair on CC and I am sure that everyone that was watching would’ve sympathised with CC at the time, I know I would’ve; but to play it out and then call for foul play seems a little off to me.

prozon.3561:

Xeph.4513:

prozon.3561:

Xeph.4513:

prozon.3has 561:

Its no secret that anet want tp on the pax, so relax guys. Takse a look at the past tp was a long time dominating the competetive sczene. The most popluar team outside and also most constantly one. In my opinion its fair send them the Tickets. But i never will get confirm with their abuse play. But this happens to you cc guys also. Hard prefered of anets brainless patching.

Yes because we didn’t win those matches with our own effort, its disgusting the attitude some people bring; regardless if Arenanet wanted us there or not, we had to get there with our own efforts as a team, which we did accomplish, you may spread rumours as you like our accomplishments speak for themselves.

They do. Sure. Just confirmed the best team won. It has norhing to do with rumours, just a analyze of the past month. Casual players never be able to get sth even some ontop one wont get it. I wont put tp on a bad shot, only thing is i cant say ur winning by playing the best there are other reassons pushing your success also

Please inform my daft mind regarding what phantom force is pushing us to win.
I am entranced to find out what conspiracy theory that your going to come up with.

Rly? Serious? You are playing op kitten by months… what was tp before anet decided to make the engi the most broken class in the game? What was tp before anet decided to make the ranger the unbeatable 1v1 monster? Ye right one of many other good teams but not this one man show since april. You seriously think you guys are winning all by best playing? Cmon…..

we were around long before then trust me, we were around when thief was broken and we didn’t have one; we were around when cantrips ele was around and we didn’t have one; we were around when engi was the worst class in the game but still played one.
If you are going to talk about all the strong meta classes in our comp; then why not mention all the times when we didn’t have an op classes still held our own as a team.

People can pick and choose situations, and twist things to their favour, but we have a history that speaks for its self.

I am just going to clear a few things up.
`
Firstly people claiming that we forced Arena-net / dev’s to change necro; are clearly not thinking straight, firstly if we had the power to do something like that, we surely wouldn’t post on the forums regarding the matter, its sad but posting on these forums and being exposed to how toxic people is becoming more unappealing day by day.

Regarding the tournament, if team CC felt like they were being cheated; they could’ve simply refused to play the bo5 and gone to the forums and made a thread about it, instead they chose to continue playing, had they won I doubt that there would be a thread regarding this matter on the forums right now.
The tournament admins made it clear that it was going to be a bo5 prior to the match starting, CC did not protest this and neither did we; had CC refused and asked for bo3 or made any case on the spot, then I would sympathise with them regarding this matter.

There was a lot of ways this could’ve been resolved, but to loose and then make a forum post about it, not only that but bringing in all sorts of unfound and unsupported nonsense isn’t only unprofessional, but frankly childish behaviour.
This whole situation could’ve been remedied earlier, but the poor choice of waiting until the matches were over, to complain seems rather shortsighted.

We also had no warning this was going to be a bo5, but adhered to what the tournament admins wanted.

prozon.3561:

Xeph.4513:

prozon.3has 561:

Its no secret that anet want tp on the pax, so relax guys. Takse a look at the past tp was a long time dominating the competetive sczene. The most popluar team outside and also most constantly one. In my opinion its fair send them the Tickets. But i never will get confirm with their abuse play. But this happens to you cc guys also. Hard prefered of anets brainless patching.

Yes because we didn’t win those matches with our own effort, its disgusting the attitude some people bring; regardless if Arenanet wanted us there or not, we had to get there with our own efforts as a team, which we did accomplish, you may spread rumours as you like our accomplishments speak for themselves.

They do. Sure. Just confirmed the best team won. It has norhing to do with rumours, just a analyze of the past month. Casual players never be able to get sth even some ontop one wont get it. I wont put tp on a bad shot, only thing is i cant say ur winning by playing the best there are other reassons pushing your success also

Please inform my daft mind regarding what phantom force is pushing us to win.
I am entranced to find out what conspiracy theory that your going to come up with.

Ixl Super Ixl.7258:

lol xeph, we are not whining or anything we are just telling the truth. If we were to whine we would have already complained about an ARAB- UAE- “Xeph” participating in a EU tournament. Don’t even get me started…

Go ahead, complain that I am allowed to participate in the tournament; all the info regarding why I am allowed to be in the tournament has already been announced on the forums; but if you feel like that would be a better option go for it, this topic has already been discussed on the forums, and it was also mentioned that anyone in a similar situation is allowed to participate.

prozon.3561:

Its no secret that anet want tp on the pax, so relax guys. Take a look at the past tp was a long time dominating the competetive sczene. The most popluar team outside and also most constantly one. In my opinion its fair send them the Tickets. But i never will get confirm with their abuse play. But this happens to you cc guys also. Hard prefered of anets brainless patching.

Yes because we didn’t win those matches with our own effort, its disgusting the attitude some people bring; regardless if Arenanet wanted us there or not, we had to get there with our own efforts as a team, which we did accomplish, you may spread rumours as you like our accomplishments speak for themselves.

Posi.4251:

http://www.mistleague.com/the-guild-wars-2-invitational-presented-in-partnership-with-mist-league-and-mmorpg-com/
According this. ALL MATCHES ARE BO3. Why bo5 ?? I dont understand it. And then people lies like, both teams were AGREE, thats complety a lie.

like I said previously it was stated on map chat; the tournament admins wanted a bo5 for the finals; like you we were informed on the spot, it was announced on stream, and it was announced on map chat in the game for both teams to see.
Those were the rules set by the tournament admins prior to the match starting, and you adhered to those rules when you clicked you ready button, it’s preposterous that you are coming on the forums and saying that you didn’t agree to it, when it was clearly stated, yet you didn’t say anything there and then.

We were told previous to the match that it was going to be a bo5 and was even announced on the stream; before even starting the match, also have some respect towards grouch who endured several hours shout casting.
This behaviour is appalling; the bo5 statement was even announced in map chat before we even started playing.
Have some sportsmanship and don’t bring this behaviour on the forums, there are tournament admins who could help you sort out those things.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Oh, also, to the Op’s point (sorry, I’m about to present in China, my mind is elsewhere, didn’t mean to ignore the OP):

The reason we did a “big” change for the Necro, as I’ve stated before, is that we had the Pax tournament coming. We knew we wanted to get Necros and Warriors up with the other classes, and that’s why we had big changes.

Also, a lot of our changes happen VERY far ahead of what you guys see on live. What do I mean?

• It takes us time to get our changes to editors for writing (any text/trait change has to be edited). This can take a week or more.
• We have to then get changes to writers.
• We then have to make sure we work with artists for any visual changes
• We also have to work with sound to make sure we have sound for any changes
• We have to work with icon artists for icons if they’re needed (in the case of Death Shroud 5)
• We have to make sure the changes get through multiple stages of QA testing
• Then with the changes in, we get time to play them before we do final changes
• While doing all this, we have to take the current meta, be it in dungeons/wvw/pvp, and from that, try to extrapolate what we think needs to be done a few months in advance.

This process can take a LONG time, as you can imagine. It’s not as simple as, “Oh, let’s change this to a 2, and change that to a 7.”

I know the video game industry in general is not very transparent when it comes to how things actually work, but I wanted you guys to know that a lot of times, there is a LOT of process for even the SMALLEST balance/content changes.

We get to see how Ridley Scott made Blade Runner with a companion DVD special, but in video games, no one talks about all the complex processes that go into making and balancing a game as complex as GW2 (which is basically 3 games in 1, all using the same balance #’s).

Hope this makes sense.

Oh, also, the reason we can’t give Necro’s too much disengage has to do with the point of “purity of purpose”.

In this game, we want to allow classes the ability to deal with all situations but in different ways. But, if we give all classes all TOOLS (which is a different thing), then players get confused as to which classes fill which roles, and in what way they fill those roles

Example: In PvP, the Necro and Engi both vie for the position of condition pressure. The engineer has more physical alternatives, the Necro has more boon/condition manipulation, the Engi has more escapability, and the Necro is a little squishier. If we gave the Necro too much mobility or escapability, then all of a sudden their “tools” start to line up exactly. If this is the case, one of them will simply be better than the other, as far as efficacy goes, and thus, one will push the other out of the meta for that “role” on the team. This class would then be the “apex” predator for that role. So, in order to prevent this, we try to make it so that the classes don’t have all their tools overlap perfectly. This means you have to say (following our example), “Well, if we take a Necro, we get more condies, but a squishy body that can’t disengage…..but if we take Engi, we lose some DPS and control (depending on utils), but we get someone who can stand up to a spike better”.

Make sense? If we just gave the escape to Necro’s, then all of a sudden, the Necro is just the clear choice. Not all decisions come down to a clean break like this, but this is the type of thing we’re trying to do when we “deny” some classes certain tools.

This is the same reason that Red doesn’t get interrupts in Magic, the reason that Zergs, normally, have much more mobility than Protoss (since Toss are usually stronger unit-by-unit), and why Karthus has no escapes. By denying tools, you create choices for the players. We sometimes do a poor job of this, sorry. But overall, we try to make it so that all classes have choices, and teams have choices in which classes they bring.

Also, keep in mind we’re trying to get 8 classes to fit into 5 slots, for PvE, Dungeons, and PvP.

This is all high level, and I’m in a rush, but I just wanted to explain this real fast…..

It’s funny, being in China, I have more time to post on the forums than I do while in the office. That’s irony or something….like 10,000 spoons….

-Chap from China

Thanks for the extensive reply John, that clears a lot of things up.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Israel.7056:

Reikou.7068:

Dropouts don’t get invited to an Ivy, plebeians aren’t consulted by presidents, and those in poverty don’t get invited to Davos.

Keep it simple. If you’re not in the top X00 (a rank/rating that is respectable) of the PvP leaderboards for your respective region, you cannot post on the locked board.

End of story.

I don’t think Anet should make an elitist restricted forum.

This game is not just for the top 100 it’s for everyone who plays it, newcomer and experienced player alike. If Anet takes an obviously elitist approach and refuses to cater to their more casual players they risk alienating them entirely.

Yeh, plus “elite” players are more subject to bias because their views are inevitably shaped by what they want/need to be good. Because the game means alot to them.

This is mostly incorrect, fact is people who want to play this game competitively need this game to succeed in order for them to succeed, so they are more likely to throw bias aside in order for this game to become better; what we have here is not a flourishing game, but rather a game that is struggling, so there is no real reason for players that are taking this game seriously to try and derail balance.

As for the casual player, he will always have opinions on what little experience he has, plus the fact that his skill level might not allow him to judge situations correctly, meaning that most of the time they don’t see the bigger picture.
I am in no way saying that their opinion isn’t valuable, but I think that the casual ’s opinion is a lot more subjective to bias, because of their limited understanding / knowledge of the class match ups and overall balance that is required to remedy the problems.