Guild Wars 2

I do however want npcs that comment on stuff and warn of upcoming dangers. Quite a few times in living story npc advice reminded me how i’m supposed to deal with a thread normal bashing and smashing doesn’t work against.

Also that asura commenter @tequatl – since i was usually in turret defense teams i loved her for early heads up about teq finger spawns.

The problem with “flexible” is that somewhere with scaling there will be “optimal” amount of ppl that for example causes boss to use his killer move less often yet is numerous enough to deliver the kill. And so instead of 10 ppl raids we’ll get meta 7 ppl runs or some such, cause “optimal”..

And it has some serious addressing to do since the “base game + HoT for new guys” is the basic deal. No promotions, no deadlines, no conditions. All the time that’s what you get as the new guy.

Vet players gotta jump through hoops (pre-purchase for an x-pac with not fully disclosed features let alone release date) to get “consolation prize” that for most mmorpg companies is a basic “no favours” feature of their expansions (new character slots matching new classes in xpac).

^ what he said.

Both the cash shop and HoT bundling with base game makes me think their policy is “wheather rain or snow, you pay us twice!”

This issue has reached even kitten germany already…
http://captiongenerator.com/46396/Hitler-reacts-to-HOT-pricing

Something turning things upside down gives one a whole new perspective. While chilling and reading HoT reactions i noticed just how entitled the ones accusing others of entitlement are.

Many a comment about HoT from it’s defenders were about how we had 3 years of great gameplay and free updates and now we complain about 50$.

Now that’s entitlement. Even if we had 15 years worth of free playtime, that doesn’t mean jack smack kitten to the deal that is the x-pac. A-net doesn’t owe vets anything, true. But they also don’t owe anything to a-net. HoT standard edition costs 50$ and that’s a fact.

That’s the price for expansion. Not “overly long free time fee”, “over the top LS season 1 & 2 costs” or some such. It’s the price for xpac. And therefore it’s the xpac’s size and content that’s being subject of justified scrutiny and no melodramatic “u.o.us” are gonna work. If the xpac is not worth 50$ in players’ eyes they’re not gonna buy it nor are they obliged to.

You can be an awesome baker and make amazing cakes. But just because i ate 50 times at your place already, doesn’t mean i’ll pay full cake’s price for few brownies on my plate which you advertise as “house’s new special”.

Well to be honest I wasn’t aware. The transgender employees part – that’s first time i hear it, nice shocker. As for ingame stuff, only marjory & kasmeer come to mind, but i didn’t pay much attention to that other then being mindblowingly cheesy and annoying.

My problem is not with “depicting society” which does feature many things not everyone wants to see but are still there, such as these two. But when they openly endorsed it on social media as the Guild Wars 2, and not individual people, that slammed the gate shut for me.

As a chrystian (a very lousy one, but still) i won’t support a game that openly and loudly supports same sex marriage.
I respect your freedom to take any stance you like, as much as I disagree with it, and i hope you’ll respect me taking my leave over it.

Just posting so that the false impression of “everyone’s fine and happy with it” (achieved via deletion of any disagreeing facebook posts) is not cemented.

Rnger spec has been announced. ? It’s 2nd july 2015? My bad, was to post this 2016. Nvm, i was not here;P

Cash shops are kitten, even the fair ones like a-nets are kitten of gaming.

P2P – 100% power goes into game’s quality and content, because that’s the one and only thing that makes the sale. High quality = sales. (and yes that’s the reason so many P2P failed – they didn’t provide solid enough quality).

Cash shop – taking stuff that would otherwise be ingame and putting it behind a paywall makes the sale.

Constant struggle between what goes into base game (because players will flee if it’s neglected) and what goes into cash shop (because money).

I can’t belive ppl start such topics.
CRUCIAL THINGS such as lazers for our sharks and asuras being able to ride moas are still missing! Let’s ponder that!

Well can’t argue with that point. Had they not flapped their beaks about not being P2P and that being a selling point…

Now we’re gonna see more stuff in gem store (that could’ve been ingame) to push their sales cause making new content costs and there’s not sub to solve the problem without nickling & diming. Meanwhile it’s arid desert in terms of new zones to explore till HoT drops, fortunatelly that’s right around the corner a.k.a. “when it’s ready”.

I hate cash shops so much.

Didn’t work because the games were kittenty, lacked quality, or basic business ethics when being run.

Wildstar had horrid optimization to point of being unplayable for many at launch despite having reasonably specced machines.
ESO was an abomination at launch, angry joe’s review says it all.
SWTOR didn’t provide enough new content for P2P standard for what i heard.

Any model with cash shop at front, suffers from basic contradiction – do developers focus their powers on cash shop stuff, or the actual game. And even once that reaches a healthy balance there’s still the questions how much content goes into the game and how many gets gated with $$ in cash shop. This is empoverishing the game, and opening a door for many abusive practices.

With P2P deal is simple. You pay, every month. But you know what you pay for – a full game, with no parts cut out due to monetizing policy. Least in 95% of game’s content, assuming real life is not that pretty. If they fail to uhold that rule and quality service you walk, and they drop into the real of F2P.

Pay 2 Play is a screaming seal of quality if a game survives over 2 years on that model. That or really really rabid fanbase. And as much as like Final Fantasy, i’m no rabid fanboy to overlook shady dealings when i see them.

I play it just fine, though it is a very different game, that lacks where GW2 thrives, and thrives where GW2 lacks.

But this isn’t about one game vs another, this is about one payment model vs another. P2P is in many ways superior to B2P if it is done honestly (like FF XiV and not like SWTOR).

Devs get steady stream of revenue, players get quality service, frequent content drops and no cool stuff getting locked behind cash shop paywall.
If devs/publishers try to breach that model, they take a nose dive and go bankrupt, because if you introduce cash shop and start milking it in a P2P then there’s no reason to not just grab a F2P or B2P games that have that too.

Failure to understand that you need quality game, with quality service, and be wary of cash shops is the reason so many P2P took a hard nose dive. It had nothing to do with payment model being bad, it had everything to do with their failure to understand how it works.

And do you recall Black lion skins, which i dare say are the #1 gem store profit source pushed out so often as recenly?

Daydreamer, mad scientist and now legacy skins come out at machine gun speed, putting pressure to open those black lion chests faster, before they go up in price.

These die fast – B&S went F2P, same SWTOR, and that one is generally a cash grab, famous for putting manpower into cash shop and not new content.

That’s the beauty of P2P – kitten that will be forgiven in F2P or B2P will not slide with players there. Game has to be cared for and run honestly, else down it goes. There are no “whale players” no burst incomes save x-pac releases – devs gotta care and cater to players all the time, because the whip of unsubbing is constantly in player’s hands.

kittenty and poorly managed games will die hard and fast in P2P model. SWTOR, WildStar, B&S (they were too greedy). But GW2 could thrive, and free itself from gem store shackles. But to each his own.

Oh. And i’m sure a-net is not doing too HoT. Notice how much gemshop picked up recent time and all the hard marketing around pre-purchase. They need money and they need it now! Least that’s what their actions bespeak of.

Genesis.8572:

I’m always amused by the people who have been so thoroughly indoctrinated by the outdated MMO subscription model that they are convinced that it’s necessary and beneficial.

I’m quite amused myself that someone just said what you did with straight face and good faith he’right.

My “indoctrination” begun oh..10 days ago? So yeah, it’s veeeery ancient;) Till that time it’s been F2P and GW2.
And how they got me you ask? With hairdresser. I got a quest to help this guy get his hairdressing tools back, which i do, heck nothing better to do atm. After getting all things together i get the expected one time hairstyle change coupon.

What i did not expect is that from this moment on i’d be able to call him as many times as i like and have my hairstyle changed for 2k ingame currency. No real $$ required. I dare you, I double dare you to try that with F2P or GW2 and not feel sore all over your wallet.

Then it hit me. There’s no paywalls to cool stuff with FF XiV sub (i say FF XIV because i know SWTOR tries to still nickle and dime even sub players via their cash shop). I don’t have to watch endless waves of cool weapons and armor flow into some cash shop instead as rewards for doing actual ingame content.

When they guy in radical armor stands next to me – i know he earned it.
No “whales” and no “freeloaders” everyone has really equal footing here. Money’s left at entrance and then just play on, no strings attached. I can live with that kinda deal, and actully am, right now. And if it loses it’s luster – i’ll stop paying and that’s done:>

Einstein said that if you can’t put it in two sentences, then you probably don’t have a firm enough grasp of the problem yet. Guess i don’t, cause i need three;)

The real problem of gw2 (and HoT along the way) is it’s extremely watered down.
It needs a sub.

What does “watered down” mean? Both good and bad things.
If you divide time played by $ spent it’s just…well, no competition. This game rocks.
So cost wise it’s purchase price is greatly watered down over time.

But if you recall the infrequent content drops of questionable sizes these past 3 years, once in blue moon balance patches and dumbing down of the game (NPE, trait changes #1 and recent abominations), there’s your negative watering down at it’s finest and the reason ppl discard trust torwards a-net and are not moving an inch till they get more information on what’s inside HoT.

So if anything the real problem is the B2P model. People may get great value for their buck, but i think it’s fair to say at least some of us need much bigger bang and would not mind paying bigger buck if we were to get proper value for it. Rest of ppl are fine with smaller bang like the one we have, but not for this kinda buck.

So i suggested it once and will again – consider optional subscription for players. One that frees them of gemstore trappings. Skins obtainable ingame, via challenges with new content, rather then behind gemshop paywall. Same for those perma logging tools. You got sub up, you got your chance to get them ingame.

P2P games don’t fail because this payment model is bad – it’s the best of all, and both WoW and FF XIV prove it.
They fail becuase you need a good game to make it work. Luckily GW2 (if this stupidity of dumbing down everything stops) can defend that title with considerable ease, as long as content is delivered in sizable chunks and proper frequency.

He means he’s one of these filthy infidels that plan to play revenant and doesn’t have a free character slot for it. So he’ll have to pay price in blood (of one of his characters) or shell out extra $10 for the slot.

Obviously his problem, silly sod thought revenant was meant for playing. Well if you pay extra for this additional functionality then sure. Other then that you pay for having a game with 9 professions not 8, and a rytlock reskin in LS:> No one said the 9th is be accessible from get go! The entitlement!

Caution! Logic ahead! Enter at your own risk!

So let’s see “HoT” is more expensive because it’s an expansion…
Riiiiiiiiight.

So by that logic an xpansion that is smaller then core game, has already base game’s foundation (financial incomes, art & programming assets, general gameplay mechanics and direction, playerbase), should not be cheaper then the core game that has more of everything, is build from scratch facing much more challenges on every front then the xpac, and right now is way cheaper then the expansion…

Because you know….reasons!

A glider skin is a pre-order incentive. No slot unless you pre-purchase or 10$ extra gets shelled out is arm twisting.

Best example of good practice being nightfall – they had no problem adding 2 slots for 2 new professions baseline, no strings attached.

@ OP thank you man, genuine thank you.

If after this simple, illustrative, cold hard facts & logic post you people can’t see plain as day that something’s wrong here with the whole HoT offering then all i can say “i give up.”

I for one am giving high five to OP for noticing that something in today’s gaming market is seriously wrong. Back in the day we used to get awesome games with awesome deals.

Now days we get to pay awesomely high $$ for marketing expanses, and are offered deals that in old timem would be called a slap in the face and not “promotion” (0 slots for reve unless you pre-purchase).
I’m not gonna judge HoT content since it’s not out yet, but marketing & sales of this game has already earned my deep scorn.

“We were unable to anticipate feline complications due to the reanimation process:)”

Given a-nets rainbowy post on social media 2 days ago….i can see where this is going.

Ranger’s most likely next….whenever he finally arrives.

I won’t compare first trait revamp with specialization system. It was far less an abomination.

Basically you all go "it’s sparkly, it’s simpler, it’s better.
It’s also dumber and restrictive. It could’ve been all the above without taking away player choice and freedom.

Missing stats could’ve been handled much better in spvp giving players full freedom even surpassing previous system (no longer tied to traitlines). But no.

Ability to slot lower tier traits into higher tratislots did not have to be taken away. It could work with specs too. But no.

Ability to go partially into one line without limiting amount of lines we can select as long as we got points for it also wouldn’t kill anyone. but no.

“We know better then you”, now shut up, enjoy the sparklies and wait for our next great idea. I can’t effin wait…

The thread is like saying “They took away our lobster, so let’s ask them for some frogs”.
The issue is not with amulets, it’s with player controlled pool of attributes that we can add similar to old traitlines fashion without their limitations (specific stats tied to specific line).

What we should have is a pool of 1400 attribute points from which we can selects stats freely, each stat capped at 300 however.
Why 1400? Because each line offered 2 stats, 300 value each when maxed out. So 2 full lines + one third’s equal in attrubutes.

If they solve the problem building around that idea then we can talk about fix…for this one issue at least.

Few of these humans are creatures of freedom and prefer to have more, not less of it.
And yeah in few months i won’t be complaning about it. Cause if this trend keeps up (first trait revamp, NPE, specializations, HoT sales practices) i’ll be on a different game’s forum and for a good reason.

Well my builds were doing well because of traitline stats, so asides the above that’s another area that killed my freedom in making new, creative builds:/

Could it be another half sleezy way to incentivize pre-purchase? Naaaaaaaaah, perish the thought.

Ps. if you got small kittens in your home, better hide them quick. I got a feeling soon you’ll have to pre-purchase HoT to get them back if you know what i mean;)

@ Voreo Sabrae: Good joke. I’m the guy who prides on devising new non meta builds, because i hate being a meta sheep, and love being a pioneer who invents new stuff.

zombieneer, condi bunker thief, celestial hybrid ranger – any of those sounds meta to you? These are were my builds.

Kitsune.1902:

I actually don’t really understand you. You paid for base game, and say you had to pay half of your LS2 episodes because you ’weren’t there’, and you don’t sound like you are bothered by it. Why would new players who got the base game as a free sider be bothered by having to pay for LS2 episodes (provided they want them), if you aren’t yourself?

Because I knew the deal – “be there to grab it for free, if you miss it you pay”. They obviously weren’t there, but also aren’t being informed about by a-net, so for some of them that will be a nasty surprise. Especially after “free base game”. Suddenly they see LS2 which was part of base game and it’s not free….

I got no problems with new players getting LS2 for free, and i had to pay for half of mine (wasn’t playing gw2 at that time).

Bad blood is gonna happen when they come knocking on that pay gate. The rage will be real.

If the standard version comes with character slot baseline, no pre-purchase only bs attached then i’d call it a hard bargain, but possible one.

As it is i’m not touching HoT out of principle, until it goes 10$ lower then it’s pre-order price (their price – character slot price that should be in there no questions asked).

It was very different. Sure, there were some walls, but much more space between them.
For spvp (because pve was broken by zerk/assasin meta) i could for example grab berserker’s amulet, but also grab extra tougness and condi damage from traitlines. Speaking of my ranger going into wildreness survival.

That way i had far more customization for making more “middle ground” builds which i loved.

I also had a build that used a full line stuffed with nothing but adept tier traits (my zombieneer). It worked, and it worked well. Well, now i can’t do that cause they know better.

And how about my condi thief? Before going full acrobatics put extra 3k hp on top of his 10.8k squishiness (amulet was settler). Now that build would be too squishy for it’s own good. extra tougness on amulet will not fix the lack of vitality, all the more with condi damage threats. Gone is the 30% extra boon duration, sweet for shadow trap buffs and thril of the crime buffs, condi damage suffers too, because 30% boost on 650 condi damage from amulet is not better or equal to 300 that trickery line gave me.

Just some examples of how their “we know better then you” bit me in the kitten .

Kodan are already on the run from this game’s imbalance.

^ this guy gets it.

riiiight, stripping freedom of choice is called “feature” now.

Ok so what did we “get” with this patch:

1. loss of 30% boon & condi duration from traitlines.
2. inablity to mix and match stats using traitlines in spvp, because you can’t mix & match with only one piece of stat giving gear (amulet).
3. inability to select lower tier traits in higher trait slots.
4. inability to choose more then 3 lines at price of not finishing them.

Sure, maybe some new builds are there and each trait means more, but you know what? I think that could’ve been done just as well without castrating our choices and build options.

A-net is embracing streamlining and i’m starting to embrace disgust at what’s happening to this game.

Ps. Nice art and layout of traits btw. Wish it didn’t come with hefty price of butchering my choice when making a build…

If a-net needs money (and i can see them desperate for it recently), they can do so by providing new content for sale. And they do – notice how gem shop suddenly went into turbo mode, especially with Black Lion Ticket skins sets.

But if you cut out something that should be common sense basic part of expansion, and expect to charge extra money on it, then we’re in same cesspool as 1st day on disk DLC practices that make nearly every player on this planet go livid and curse the very ground the publisher walks on.

What they should not do is trying to nickel & dime us with such underhanded tactics like that character slot story.

Before a-net played by the book – if xpac has new professions, players buying it get matching amount of slots to test drive them. Simple, logical, no one died of poverty over there cause they did it.

Today we get this. If we give them an inch today, they’ll take a mile tommorow (next x-pac), mark my words.

They said veterans will get that slot if they prepurchase, and not everyone on purchase of HoT, after launch included.

It’s a matter or principle over money for me.

Payed x-pac introduces new professions? yes.
Does the new profession require empty character slot to make? yes.

At that point discussion ends and any decent company would include one additional character slot as x-pac’s basic feature. Simple as that.

Depends on what housing. If i’ll get another generic looking cottage, or mansion like in lion’s arch or divinity’s reach then they can burn that idea and lauch it’s ashes into the toilet for all i care.

BUT, if you give multiple options, like these HoT Itzel houses and villages, or asuran architecture, with ability to add pieces on as i see fit (and not just furnish fullly pre-made model that i have no say about), then “I’d buy that for a dollar!”

And of course a-net took the easy way out – boost amulet stats, gg, mission complete!

It would be horrible if they were to give players the same freedom of choice as before with traitline stats, or what’s worse (the horror!) even bigger freedom of choice by letting them allot attribute points to their build just like with traitlines, but without binding actual attribute (such as toughness) to an actual traitline.

Nope, none of that, rest easy kiddies, no need to panic, big brother a-net did your thinking for you!

^ got a hunch you’re spot on there…

Instead they’ll watch many ppl hold on to their money, until “they’re ready”

Ah but i do know how their pre-sales are doing – not too ..hot.

Simple deduction gives all the answers on the subject:

1. they stepped back from no character slot for vets tactic. It was designed to push sales or character slots from gemstore, or higher tier HoT bundles. That this changed is a proof community backlash for this low blow was serious enough to outweight the projected profit from this tactic – in short sale numbers must look grim compared to projected values.

2. They attached that character slot to pre-purchase. The push for selling those copies now is strong. What community wants is character slot for all HoT buyers, because revenant. No strings attached. By attaching it to pre-sale they’re still using shady tactic and risk backlash from players. But also make pre-purchase armed with strong bait for those of us not so hell-bent on keeping certain standards and principles of x-pac relases.

3. Gem store is going into overdrive recently. Anyone seen those Black Lion Ticket skins get coughed up so fast in succession? I never. They’re clearly on offensive with gem store, wanting to rake in some cash here and now.
Guess those presales didn’t deliver so far and alternative sources of “money now!” are needed.

Also if they were sensible never would they announce price before release date. They literally showed us the big, sharp, pointy shinining hook on a line, with little to no bait on it.

They either are that hard pressed for money, or made a really huge PR blunder and now the best they can do is to add the proper amount of bait on it, before way more fishies then they’d like will turn tail and wait till dust settles. Given that it’s clear they’re ..HoT..for money now, not “when it’s ready”..

Like pre-sales of $50 expansion, with 0 information on release date, progress of development, planned size of it and plans post launch?

Can’t argue there;)

It’s pretty sure it’ll be $50 …or $60 …or $70 (yes, jabbing you for those lacking character slots a-net) each time. They don’t wanna scare new players away, so i think each xpac will start at 50$ price point (+- hidden costs), and unlock all the stuff before it.

Also they said HoT was the foundation for their game expansion and character growth model. So now that they know “how” they’ll go about their expansion business we can expect those x-pacs much faster then HoT.

The gem store is already going into overdrive recent weeks, you can tell they’re starved for money, so work will be going full steam from now on, to rake in some serious cash.