Guild Wars 2

Scribbles.7493:

bartsimpsons.6135:

kill > area denial

WvW is a teambased game. There are lots of classes better at killing than an elementalist, but few classes can match our area denial potential.

D/D may be better if you’re zerging with a bunch of puggies, but if you’re in an organized guild, they’d prefer you to focus on doing the one thing Elementalists are really good at. Laying down lots of combo/control/area denial fields. And that means you’ll be using a staff.

rangers entangle+churning earth = very good at killing

snaplemouton.1294:

Staff is way more powerful in close quarter then D/D. Sadly.

wut?

staff is terrible in close quarters. its so cumbersome and unresponsive.

just give D/D a try. it harder to use than staff imo but it is much better in open fights. you need to play very aggressively and you will need mistform+lightning flash minimum to make sure you have a way to get out once you get in. it works really well if you coordinate with a partner who also has good aoes.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Not everything is about kills, every consider that Area Denial is more important than +1 to your kill count?

kill > area denial

Ananda.8241:

I agree that the punishing people for playing suboptimally is a good thing. However, I have encountered several situations where the optimal play, as far as I can see, is dying repeatedly. Maybe I’m just too inexperienced and haven’t found a better way, and you guys can tell me a better way of solving these problems.

This one I’ve already said above. In an enemy borderland, your server owns the hill or bay keep. It is under attack by 2 servers, from both north and south. The southern force has suddenly diverted all of their people to the supply camp closest to your spawn, overwhelmed your defenses, plopped down 10+ siege weapons there, then go back to sieging the south gate, leaving enough people defense behind to man them. Without that supply camp, the keep is as good as lost. You cannot spare too many people away from the keep, or it will be lost as well. There is obviously no luxury of building a treb somewhere to soften the defenses first. The best way that I can think of, is a small force that continually do a suicide run from spawn to that camp, trying to bring down the sieges and supply as fast as possible. Of course we can use tricks like mesmer portal to be able to approach them in the first place, but it is still a suicide run in any case.

Another, and this happens far more often, is trebs built on top of the pillars in the southern middle island of the borderlands. If your side has excess supply, maybe quick-building a bunch of counter treb outside the tower is an option. But otherwise, you will have to storm that middle island to take them down. If the server is good, all of their forces will just defend the island and not approach the tower until the walls are down. You can still try tactics like flanking them, mesmer portal, etc, but chances are the enemy will be ready for those too. And unless you outnumber them, the best way that I can see is still suicide runs to slowly damage and destroy the trebs and other siege weapons

if a server has invested all/majority of its forces to accomplish an objective, it will most likely accomplish that objective unless you have an extremely coordinated guild there to stop them. If a server is investing all of its forces to defend defend the trebs pounding at your walls or defending a supply camp you should just see that as an opportunity to capture other supply camps.

from what i have observed, when a keep/tower is contested it is highly unlikely the dolyak will ever it make it in anyway. Any smart attacking force will assassinate your dolyak everytime making the supply camp connected to the keep/tower fairly worthless. you will most likely need have some people run supply from another supply camp for defenses/repairs. dont expect pugs to do this; dont expect anything from pugs. thats why i always recommend that people join multiple WvW guilds. that way you will have someone to play with when you log into WvW.

have a look at this video. this is what 5 reasonably coordinated people can do against a zerg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2teQTIs64&feature=relmfu
(they are very well geared though it is still amazing what they pull off)

i think its pretty pathetic that thief daggerstorm is so much better than elementalist tornado its not funny. Arent elementalists meant to be good at AOE? kitten theives have a better aoe elite than we do.

Ananda.8241:

@SteelRecon
Please explain further, why is there a need for ‘upkeep’ and why it should hurt? It is not immediately obvious to me.

because there should be consequences for failing. No death penalty just encourages people to mindlessly throw themselves at a keep until they capture it. Players should be rewarded for good organisation, coordination, ingenuity and ability to play your character and not for simply spending large amounts of time.

Bassario.3465:

First of all, a lot of players are still very new and the average human being has to learn through doing, not everyone… no I’m gonna go ahead and say that almost no one has as much time to play this game as you (based on that u threw 100g at commander status) and therefore you will always see tons of ppl who are sadly still learning. This will happen on both sides and is unavoidable, so just organize as many ppl as you can, stick to a guild who know what they are doing and that is the most u can ever do.

Secondly… you threw 100g at something that gives u a little icon on the map and are wondering why ppl still dont listen to you? I apologize if I find it a tad ironic that you are calling others stupid

you didnt understand what i was saying. i was listing common complaints i have seen on this forum. these are not my complaints; i did not purchase commander status and I dont play this game very much, i just dont have time (i dont even have a level 80). this is partly what makes some of these complaints so upsetting… lots of the problems people are encountering can just be solved through the application of common sense. you dont need to be a hardcore gamer to find solutions to these problems, just engage the brain and try to solve the problems your encounter instead of just complaining about them.

Ananda.8241:

Disagree about the repair cost one. I think removing it is a step in the right direction.

Fighting against HoD or ET, sometimes there are just no other way to take down their siege weapons except to suicide run against them. For example, a critical supply camp can be guarded by 10+ siege weapons an instant after it was taken, and you just have to have the camp back or you’ll lose a keep. It is obvious that doing some suicide run to slowly destroy them is the answer, and even the commanders will be asking you to do it, but the repair cost does make it more painful than it needs to be.

Also, expensive repair cost is a factor that cause a lot of people to give up when the server start losing, instead of continue to fight back. When it is 20 vs 100 in a map, and you are trying your best to slow down the inevitable, dying is not really optional. The high repair cost really feels like a slap then.

just put a treb down in some random spot far away and take out their siege using a scout to assist you aim.

Hell Nirvana.9045:

But the battle doesn’t end when the gate goes down.

It also happens to be the time staff starts to becomes kinda useless and D/D becomes useful. Id rather have a D/D than a staff on me, when the gate goes down. much more powerful weapon in majority of situations where you dont have a wall to the enemy away from you.

Staff is really only good for defending from walls and attacking people on walls. People are getting better and WvW and realising it pointless to autoattack the gate making the whole wall-to-ground (where staff excels) combat kind of obsolete. People are placing trebs and catas far away, forcing the defenders to leave the safety of their keeps/towers and fight them on them on level ground to prevent their walls/gate from falling. D/D excels at facediving into large groups and wreaking havoc.

Skills such a tornado, fire ring, earthquake, churning earth, ring of earth, burning speed combined with other skills such as rangers entangle and theives daggerstorm are capable of killing large groups of people. Small organised groups can decimate entire zergs if they coordinate their AOES properly.

Have a quick think about how many kills you get these days from spamming spells from on top of a wall or at defenders on a wall. Its significantly less then what it used to be earlier. That being said, if there is still a lot of mindless World VS Gate happening and zerg/pug style stupidity on your server, staff will work well.

Revenant.2691:

While I agree with almost every point you’ve made here, I have to disagree with your post. What you’re basically saying is that everything in WvWvW is fine, in which case you’re a fool. By saying “don’t listen to any of the whiners in this forum” you’re saying to ignore anyone who has a legitimate issue or complaint, be it about broken mechanics, exploits, or even just ways to make WvW better. Shame on you, sir.

dude in the title i clearly said “most complaints” and in my final sentence i mentioned that there are legit complaints and that these should not be ignored.
i never said everything in WvW is fine and by whiners i am referring to the people that make the stupid complaints i have mentioned in my post

SteelRecon.3824:

Complaining about complaints. tell me more.

if people just used their brains i wouldnt have to be doing this

Just run around in WvW for a while and observe how stupid people are. Not just pugs, but large guilds as well.

Silly complaints i keep seeing:

repair costs to high/there should be no repair costs:
- maybe if you stop mindlessly following the zerg and chasing enemies all the way to your death and actually think about helping your server. try joining an organised guild and working together towards a clear defined aim.

i bought commander and no one listens to me:
- when you bought commander, you were never guaranteed that everyone will listen to what you say. arena net can not make other players to listen to you. you need to develop your leadership skills.

siege weapons die too easily
- do people even think before they place siege weapons. majority of siege weapon placements i have seen are just stupid. try and learn how to correctly place siege. be creative. if you place a cata on the supply depot roof, you can hit the both the gate and over the wall. YOU DONT HAVE TO PLACE THE CATA DIRECTLY BEHIND THE GATE SO THAT IT CANNOT BE USED TO SHOOT OVER THE WALLS K?

please dont listen to the whiners arena net. they are bad at the game and no matter how much many changes you make, they will still whine because they are bad at the game. that being said there are genuine complaints out there eg. hacks, exploits

arenanet could just give us weapon swap and make it so that we can only pick 2 elements per weapon and we must not use more than 1 element twice.

eg.

staff for fire, water
duals daggers for lightning and earth

or they could just change our weapons so that they have both ranged and melee skills on them…

We are kind of forced to use the staff in WvW because we have no other 1200 range weapon. Unlike every other class ele cant melee+ranged without performing a weapon swap from inventory.

I wish they would make it so that staff had some 130 range moves and maybe they gave use a new weapon for example greatsword (kinda like mesmer) which also has some mixed range spells.

maybe just allow weapon swapping but make it so that you can only use 2 elements per weapon? might make the elementalist a bit more accessible to play.

just switch servers OP; its better to have all the rpers in one server than spread across many, ruining WvW for everyone

i think no one wants to join ET because that RUIN guild has a bad reputation for ruining things

also; who wants be no.1 anyway? thats boring, you have nothing to work towards

1. remove AOE damage cap
- promotes skillfull play over zerging

2. If you die while downed, you should be auto teleported back to spawn
- promotes skillfull play over zerging
- stop dead people spying+providing info to their team
- makes people think 2x before chasing for kills and neglecting objectives

i agree with OP. WvW is not something which is going to be or meant to be perfectly balanced

However i do feel anet needs to give players the ability to win in situations where they are outnumbered given that they play skillfully. at the moment the larger force pretty much always wins because they can just keep reviving each other.

1. remove AOE damage cap
2. If you die while downed, you should be auto teleported back to spawn (no chance for rez)
3. speed up downed state finisher kill animation
4. maybe nerf downed state if the above 3 still dont remedy the issue

i think the nerf to retaliation vs siege weps was an excellent move

Dethwar.1768:

One thing to take into consideration is server population. For example, IoJ and SoS are ranked very high in ANet’s rankings. However, NA prime these two servers have very little populations and no queues. But during Oceanic and Asian prime time hours they have very good populations.

So naturally, if we go up against other servers NA prime IoJ and SoS don’t do very well but during Oceanic and Asian prime hours IoJ and SoS clear the map. So the scores aren’t the only thing to look at. The time of play of their population should also be looked at.

Example, currently ET is blowing out both IoJ and SoS primarily because they got a 12 hour head start in taking over maps and getting all 3 orbs and then just holding. ET should not go up against IoJ and SoS – they should go up against a similar server that has a strong NA presence and weaker Oceanic and Asian presence. IoJ and SoS should go up against weak NA presence but strong Oceanic and Asian presence.

So its not just about the score but distribution and hour of play for the servers that go up against each other. This data is available by looking at queues and population averages during different parts of the day.

this, i dont think u can just look at scores and wins

need to look at population vs time and take that into consideration as well imo

Xandax.1753:

bartsimpsons.6135:

How many times have you lost a keep/tower because people go off and chase the enemy for kills and get killed themselves leaving no one to defend the keep/tower?
<snip>

Can’t remember a single one actually.

what server are u on, im transferring over

How many times have you lost a keep/tower because people go off and chase the enemy for kills and get killed themselves leaving no one to defend the keep/tower?

in WvW people rarely ever bother to defend a tower or build siege. people just make a beeline to the nearest crossed swords on the map because thats where to loot is.

meanwhile the players buying siege weps and running supply from camps to build the siege dont get anything even though what they are doing is significantly more helpful to the server than chasing 2-3 enemies into a keep and getting massacred by cannons….

i think they should just remove the loot/badges on kill and instead give these rewards at random for successfully defending/defending a point. using supply to build/repair something should also be considered as contribution when determining gold/silver/bronze reward.

atm the reward system just promotes mindless zerging.

haha we were on the inner wall of askalion keep defending against eredon zerg massively outnumbered , gate was at 50% and server down saved us looks like it ASSDADfasdasfasdfasfaf

put a supply depot at spawn. might reduce the snowballyness of WvW.

huehueue so funny when this guy gets banned

judging by his behaviour “winning” WvW is his life

tryharding this much is semi understandable if you are outnumbered and have no choice
but this is ridiculous, ET outnumbers SoS and IoJ combined by atleast 2x

i bet they think its their “tactics” which is the key to their success /roflmao

Mayama.1854:

I dont really think its “your” siege weapon if its build, I mean other people build it to. Those silver are less important than the resources spend on it.

yeh but someone who spends

silver + supply > supply

in terms of priority

thanks anet, that was a really fast fix

Newbie.4586:

bartsimpsons.6135:

wow this makes me lol

how kitten up must that guy be in the head to go so far as to what he is doing

its ultra pathetic because they already outnumber us like 5:1

they are recruiting to compete with HoD….it’s also why they prolly threw one of the 24hr matches so they could have a week to recruit oceanic players and be competitive with HoD the week after….course it could all be coincidence.

there goes my faith in humanity

if you purchased the blueprint for a siege wep and you want to use it, whoever is currently using it should be kicked off when you press e or whatever you have bound your interact key to

this will stop pathetic people from switching to opponent servers and occupying their siege for maximum trollage and prevent just regular people from using your siege when you want to use it.

might also encourage people to purchase more siege seeing as you are guaranteed access to it

NixZero.7540:

lets just make us able to vote if a commander is good or a moron, if he get enough bad votes you can just put him in ignore and be done with that, he’s just wasted 100 golds.

a like/dislike or a follow would be enough (with all the whistles and bells to make it look good for rpers obviously)

i like your idea.

i think everyone should be able to thumbs up or thumbs down a commander and the rating should be visible to everyone. it should be a permanent rating and players should be able to change their rating (thumbs up/down) at any time.

they should just remove the downed state from WvW. hell all the sPvP people dont like it either.

downed state makes it very hard for a smaller skillfull group to do anything against an uncoordinated zerg. is the smaller group takes down some people through excellent coordination they have to then kill them in down state which is almost impossible if you against larger numbers.

on top of this it is extremely unintuitive and unsatisfying to have to kill the same person 2x and it makes the game harder to balance as some classes have significantly superior downed state moves.

I think anet should try to balance WvW so it rewards skillfull tactical play and strategy a bit more and large numbers a bit less.

maybe get rid of the AOE cap or increase it and remove retaliation killing siege weapons.

i agree completely that simply having captures/defenses doesnt make anyone a good leader. Im not claiming that my idea will ensure all commanders will be good WvW leaders, but i think it a good measure against having non WvW experienced players becoming commanders and possible ruining WvW for everyone else.

There are a lot of people who casually WvW and they will probably just follow whoever has the commander mark regardless of whether or not they are good commanders. I think having additional measures in place to stop inexperienced players from becoming commanders will not solve the issue completely but it will help.

in addition to any other gold/karma/badge costs commander option should require the player to have experienced WvW.

if you have played BF3, to unlock a certain medic gun, you might need
100 kills with medic guns
20 squad revives
50 squad heals
etc etc

i think similarly in GW2, to unlock commander you should have to do certain things eg.
5 stonemist captures
10 stonemist defenses
100 supply point captures
50 supply point defenses
10 dreaming bay captures
20 dreaming bay defenses
25 bluebriar captures
50 bluebriar defenses
etc etc

this will give commander status some legitimacy and WvW players are likely to trust and listen a commander that they know is experienced in WvW

NOTE: all values are just examples/placeholders. i guess a.net would be the better judge of what these values should actually be.

i was just thinking how cool it would be if we could have siege towers/ladders. then we can have melee fights during sieges, how cool right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_tower

i think it might be a good idea to nerf retaliation against siege weps first, otherwise attackers are favoured too much

organised group melee charges are effective. ive seen organised guilds charge larger unorganised zergs from the side and drive them off/ kill many of them.

if you run in as a melee all by yourself you are going to stand out and everyone will focus fire you. if you run in as a group of melee it makes the enemy panic and die because there are too many people too deal with

in sieges, yeh melee kind of sucks unless there are people to fight through the gate

instead of the siege weapon itself.

this is coming from a guardian

oh god no PVP in a PVP zone

tbh sounds like a valid tactic to stop the enemy from getting free blueprints/gear

cry moar, carebear tears give me strength

we dont need 50 people sitting on the island north of heros lodge/terrace. u dont get points for owning that island and the supply camp rarely every actually supplies anything…

also; please dont derpcharge across the bridge when the enemy has cannons and catas set up on the keep nearby and if you die doing this once please dont come and do it again right after you respawn.

i swear this part of the map is the biggest noob trap. it is amusing to watch herpderps being herpderps for a bit but then i start to cry when they just dont stop doing it.

what do you guys think about having a system where everyone currently active in WvW receives a reward periodically. the more WvW points u have, the more often u get the reward.

the reasoning behind this is very very simple. people are rewarded for doing what helps your server win WvW. i think this will help create a team atmosphere where people will work together to capture/hold as many points as possible. currently the zerg heads wherever there is rewards even though that might not be the best thing for the server. if i have dollar for every time we have lost an objetcive because my team overextended for kills+loot i would have something like $40-50

some problems with this will be ofcourse, people afking with click scripts. i guess this is the major downfall of this reward system. maybe a vote kick option for afkers should exist. the offender in question can nullify all votes against if he simply fills out a captcha which will pop up on his screen.

i have no opposition to pve in WvW, i think it helps create immersion.
BUT
pve should effect the outcome of WvW my providing buffs or reinforcments or something
eg. quaggan camps, dolyaks, supply camp npcs, orb of power npcs

they should put the grub in equally accessible to servers and make it provide a buff or some sort of WvW related reward so that it will become a contested point rather than a carebear magnet…

someguy just suggested we allow siege to be repaired. i think that is one of the best suggestions made and everyone ignored it.

i dont think anet should remove retaliation working on siege or meteor showers ability to hit siege. they should balance them by adjusting the numbers if required but removing them would just remove aspects of gameplay.

i think we should let WvW mature for a bit before we try to balance it.

and honestly, if you are coordinated u should have no problem taking out a larger zerg attacking your keep. i dont know what op is talking about when he says the zergs take out his keeps without siege.