What they need to do is fix chill damage… why doesn’t it stack like burn damage already wtf anet.
Because without the grandmaster trait, it’s not a damaging condition, so the base condition is only useful if it stacks duration, like cripple and weakness. The damage is useful, but not something to change the entire mechanic of the chill condition over, especially when you remember that other people can also apply chill but it won’t do damage.
I know things have definitely gotten off topic…but I absolutely find solace in the fact that a lot of people share the same discomfort. I should have made a poll :P
Do it!
I’d love to see how will it go.
If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably gonna be 50/50, depending on how you word it. Even people who like druid as an elite spec will say that it can be improved and made to work better. So if you are asking can it be improved, the response will be an overwhelming yes, cuz I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. If you are asking should they have given us a completely different elite spec, I think that will be close to an even split.
Honestly, I don’t mind the fact that our weapon damage isn’t all that great because ideally the pet should be doing at least half of our damage output (thematically speaking).
That said, I am likewise annoyed by the number of fights where we are punished if our pet is left on active in dungeons and fractals. Having to put it on passive is a major DPS loss for us.
2) My mesmer tends to die less than other professions in high level fractals, as she is very good at pivoting.
In short, mesmer is great at surviving and multitasking, and can keep their DPS sustained in stressful situations better than other professions who hit hard, but don’t pivot well.
Decimate Defenses allows you to use Valkyrie armor and Berserker+Valkyrie trinkets for some additional vitality with no lose of crit chance (you stack so much Vuln that getting the full 50% bonus to crit chance is cake). The first build that schmu listed shows you the trait/equipment setup I’m currently using on mine (though I went with Rage runes for more fury uptime, and Strength sigil instead of air for more might). I have a different setup for skills but not by much.
Yeah, thief definitely has more shadowleaps (steal, weapon skill, utility skill). You could be bouncing all over the battlefield pretty easily. And between those and stealth and blinds, I don’t know what anyone is better at running away. may come close…
If you make Nature’s Vengeance baseline and change it to a trait that allows movement then it could be optional and be a win-win for both situations.
THIS THIS THIS
I WANT THIS!!!!
While I too would love this, I also think the spirits by themselves may end up getting nerfed. Frost spirit giving 3 stacks of might on an interval and a 3 in 4 chance for a 10% damage boost?
Edit: forgot about the range increase, so they would all work at 1500 radius range, and have lower cooldowns.
Also just because I COMPLETELY forget to mention it, we only have access to 2 viable damaging conditions (bleed and poison) which can be cleared rather easily. We have some burn on trap, spirit, and torch but trap/torch is just a small field and spirit is meh. The only way ranger has access to confusion or torment is via pet/sigils/runes.
Half of rangers condition application comes from being forced into hybrid precision/condition stats so in PvP we have to typically run YOLO builds like sinister/viper with very little payoff compared to other classes.
Also please note I’m not trying to compare Ranger to ANY class and I only compared to ranger to engi once with a single skill. I just want ranger to be able to play condi and not be forced into a build where you have to play perfectly, dodge every big hit, running YOLO stats just do be as good as any other condi class running far more defense than you but putting out as much/more damage.
Check out these builds. The first two are PVE, the third is PVP.
As I said, I’m not a fan of depending on zero range AOE for alot of it, but if you are good with it, you can run condi with ranger very effectively. And there are some really interesting combinations you can pull too.
Life steal? Did I miss something. You cant be talking about signet of malice, it doesnt heal enough by its own. Sigil of blood or rune of vampirism aswell…maybe all 3 of them…
Carrion>no crits>no invg precision. Or are you actually referring to assassins reward?
Do people use assassins reward in pve? Nah, I dont think so. And if they do: sage over carrion. It scales greatly with healing power now. Then again: less condidamage.
What the hell, i dont know but i would be really interested in what that ‘lifesteal’ is supposed to be.
Sage? did you mean apothecary?
Yeah, right. Sage is pvp amulet, not a stat combination. My bad. But you know, what I mean, do ya?
No I didn’t. I don’t PVP, so I had no frame of reference for that.
Pyro…. I can’t believe the amount of stupid we’ve had lately on the Mesmer forum. Between the person thinking Open World PvE needs specialized builds and makes a “profit”, the person that thinks condi Mesmer is the best thing since sliced bread because one team ran it over the weekend, and now this guy. There must have been a convention were they passed out some of the good stuff and we weren’t called in on it.
On topic, condi Mesmer, to me, hasn’t been as good since they deleted clone death traits. Why? Because now our three most easily applied conditions are torment, bleed, and confusion. Unless you run dueling I don’t find bleeds to be worth it so that leaves torment and confusion. Both of which have received nerfs over the years. The most important one recently was the nerf to MtD so that the torment stacks we applied on shatter was 1 from 2. Which sucks. Now you’re essentially bursting someone and if they clear it, dogde, or invuln through it like you would a power shatter you’re screwed until you can set up another burst.
Which basically means the only reason for any team to take Mesmer now after quickness nerfs is portal. And it’s not strong if you can’t use it properly.
You’re talking to someone who hasn’t posted in this thread. 0_o
Sword Shield / – Sword for open world. If I really NEED range, I use a staff, same for zerg fights against a champ (oh those 25k crits <3), while using MoP for max dps. I barely touch the GS in open world. Imo it’s rather a “slacker weapon” or “just for fun”. If you want to chill and dps without big efforts – GS is perfect.
And for some reason, reading this felt like deja vu. 0_o
Edit: and I mean like Inception level deja vu. I feel like I read that post before, and that at that time I had deja vu as well…
Just make them mobile again, the games balance is completely different now and almost every class has had several builds come out that are stronger than that build ever was, all that would happen if it was added back in would be to give people another viable build to use.
I use them now in fractals all the time. frost and sun have a short enough CD that I can drop them at each fight, and I drop SoN when we get to the boss fights, or if people are seriously struggling (pugs mostly).
I agree on Blood Magic. speed increase with dagger, lots of life steal, and you get the trait for Wells too. Minions are the favored utility, though I admit I have never summoned a minion. I used signets/wells mostly.
If you think you are interested in doing a condi build, go with the Curses traitline and the corruption utilities. and staff and scepter/warhorn.
See any of the threads on d/d condition builds as an example.
link? I am actually curious about condi for thief (if it’s possible).
To a particular build? I was speaking to the threads where people complained about condition builds and the use of DB (which is how a d/d build applies conditions)
I tend to play power more but do have a d/d build that uses conditions over power if of interest. It a little different than most you will find as it focuses on healing over outright damage.
I’ve just had a hard time finding anything resembling a condi build for thief. And when I tried to build one, I was pretty sure I was doing it wrong.
no the fact that there is so much aoe, condi and reveal out there now is murdering stealth playstyle
I used to main d/d, which is dead, as a stealth deception playstyle with everything based on stealth to engage, disengage and just troll the enemy, try that now, stealth boom reveal!
that is why so many thieves don’t use shadowarts anymore or Shadow Refuge, because it’s just a big kill me I’m here and can’t do kitten about it Signal!
D/P is played most because every single skill on the bar is strong and hardcounters every other thief build, e.g. every other thief that does not take offhand p has no access to blind, a blind field and a daze
d/p is the only set with a gap closer on the bar #3 which is unblockable and blinds and does more dmg than CnD which should be a hard hitting burst skill but was nerfed because thief op
I can imagine this is the case for pvp. I don’t play pvp however, and I can still stealth with a staff. I just don’t have a spammable weapon skill for it. But the elite spec is definitely not to blame for stealth playstyle being dead in competitive play.
that’s not what I meant, our elite spec is basically what acro used to be (just a bit better) fullfilling a nishe in our gameplaystyle, which was evasion based, now the coin flipped and evasion is the best/most played playstyle because stealth is just lacking
OK that’s fair, though I feel like SA wasn’t well liked even before HoT. Thoughts?
What I got was sustain, sustain, sustain, more sustain, and a single condi trait. Sure the single condi trait is good, but condi ranger has been completely overshadowed by nearly every class where condi is concerned (at least no where near the same level as condi survival pre summer patch).
I’m curious to know why you think this, considering when I have asked about which professions do condi the best, ranger always makes the list (along with engi, necro, and one or two others).
Edit: that said, I’m not a fan of how ranger does condi (a lot of fields), but it is effective when you can place them right.
As for druid, you’re both right, there was excitment and trepidation. Not least because Anet have utterly failed ranger so many times in the past. The only class, I think, that had a spec which was so divisive had to be Engi/Scrapper. Anet chose to ignore everybody’s pleas, chose to ignore every engineer experience of the last few years and demonstrated a total failure to learn from their mistakes, by presenting Engineer, a class with already lousy Ai’s taking up an entire utility type; another set of utility Ai’s. The forums were on fire with people eager for hammer but begging Anet to reconsider the gyros. They didn’t and the gyros were exactly what the players expected. Badly, designed, badly implemented, buggy and with no sight of fixes. Just like Turrets.
Ranger suffered the same problem. Anet had an opportunity to fix things. They didn’t listen. They just steamrolled ahead, ignoring the problems that have been demonstrated over the last three years.
That’s why many players feel robbed.
I’ll just point out Druid and Scrapper are made by the same person.
I agree that there was excitement and trepidation. However, if people thought an elite spec was going to fix an entire class, I would have to say that that was a failed hope from the start. It’s another spec, a line of traits, a weapon, a new set of skills, and in some cases, a new mechanic. What’s missing from that list?
Any fixes to the preexisting structures of the class.
Throwing a supercharger into a old, wornout car isn’t gonna win you the Indy500. The whole thing has to be worked on.
Chronomancer definitely did to the poor base Mesmer before it was gutted. Reaper also did to the iffy base Necro.
I would disagree. It gave them another spec line to use, so people replaced whatever was the weakest line with the elite spec one, and in most cases, picked up the elite spec weapon. That didn’t fix the old weapons, or the old skills, or the old trait lines. It just added one solid point to build around. Because by not fixing the rest of the profession, the elite spec has become the profession (referring to reaper and chrono specifically).
Life steal? Did I miss something. You cant be talking about signet of malice, it doesnt heal enough by its own. Sigil of blood or rune of vampirism aswell…maybe all 3 of them…
Carrion>no crits>no invg precision. Or are you actually referring to assassins reward?
Do people use assassins reward in pve? Nah, I dont think so. And if they do: sage over carrion. It scales greatly with healing power now. Then again: less condidamage.
What the hell, i dont know but i would be really interested in what that ‘lifesteal’ is supposed to be.
no the fact that there is so much aoe, condi and reveal out there now is murdering stealth playstyle
I used to main d/d, which is dead, as a stealth deception playstyle with everything based on stealth to engage, disengage and just troll the enemy, try that now, stealth boom reveal!
that is why so many thieves don’t use shadowarts anymore or Shadow Refuge, because it’s just a big kill me I’m here and can’t do kitten about it Signal!
D/P is played most because every single skill on the bar is strong and hardcounters every other thief build, e.g. every other thief that does not take offhand p has no access to blind, a blind field and a daze
d/p is the only set with a gap closer on the bar #3 which is unblockable and blinds and does more dmg than CnD which should be a hard hitting burst skill but was nerfed because thief op
I can imagine this is the case for pvp. I don’t play pvp however, and I can still stealth with a staff. I just don’t have a spammable weapon skill for it. But the elite spec is definitely not to blame for stealth playstyle being dead in competitive play.
Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.
Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.
I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.
Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?
Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.
3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.
Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.
Actually I remember quite clearly after the announcement of Druid that the ranger forums blew up with excitement over the new elite spec. People were going nuts with anticipation about it, both here on the forums and on in-game chats.
Edit: In fact, with the possible exception of Chrono and Daredevil, I don’t think any elite spec was as highly anticipated.
Reaper, dude. Reaper was by far the most exciting announcement. Necro was in such dire need of help and Reaper promised alot. It was a spec for which Anet actually did listen.
As for druid, you’re both right, there was excitment and trepidation. Not least because Anet have utterly failed ranger so many times in the past. The only class, I think, that had a spec which was so divisive had to be Engi/Scrapper. Anet chose to ignore everybody’s pleas, chose to ignore every engineer experience of the last few years and demonstrated a total failure to learn from their mistakes, by presenting Engineer, a class with already lousy Ai’s taking up an entire utility type; another set of utility Ai’s. The forums were on fire with people eager for hammer but begging Anet to reconsider the gyros. They didn’t and the gyros were exactly what the players expected. Badly, designed, badly implemented, buggy and with no sight of fixes. Just like Turrets.
Ranger suffered the same problem. Anet had an opportunity to fix things. They didn’t listen. They just steamrolled ahead, ignoring the problems that have been demonstrated over the last three years.
That’s why many players feel robbed.
I agree that there was excitement and trepidation. However, if people thought an elite spec was going to fix an entire class, I would have to say that that was a failed hope from the start. It’s another spec, a line of traits, a weapon, a new set of skills, and in some cases, a new mechanic. What’s missing from that list?
Any fixes to the preexisting structures of the class.
Throwing a supercharger into a old, wornout car isn’t gonna win you the Indy500. The whole thing has to be worked on.
People are jerks, and will insult you whenever you come up with a playstyle they don’t know how to handle. Don’t worry about it.
If your teammates are the ones saying it, ask them for suggestions, and if they don’t have any, ignore them.
Always expand your knowledge of all the things your profession is capable of, and never get stuck on one playstyle. Even if you have a favorite, it’s good to be familiar with other ones in case yours doesn’t work for whatever current situation you’re in.
Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.
Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.
I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.
Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?
Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.
3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.
Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.
Actually I remember quite clearly after the announcement of Druid that the ranger forums blew up with excitement over the new elite spec. People were going nuts with anticipation about it, both here on the forums and on in-game chats.
Edit: In fact, with the possible exception of Chrono and Daredevil, I don’t think any elite spec was as highly anticipated.
I was actually there, it was a bunch of non Ranger players coming over getting caught up in announcement hype before going back to thier own better designed classes when the Betas started. Most Rangers were pointing out the problems with the spec straight away.
I was also there, and there were many who I had seen on the ranger forums for a long time, who have been ranger main players then entire time, very much looking forward to it.
Every class in the game has problems. every elite spec has problems. That didn’t stop people from being excited about it while pointing out the problems. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
So I switched off mesmer a while back, and have come back to… well, you know. This isn’t gonna be another thread about any of that. This is what I want to know.
I play primarily PVE. No raids, maybe fractals eventually but not a concern right now. Just starting out again, so not even to level 80 yet lol.
So here’s what I’m asking for. What are people doing with mesmer in the more casual environments (Open World, World Boss, some dungeons, map meta events)? What has worked well, what has been fun to play, what has been enjoyable?
Keep things positive here guys. There’s enough negativity and resignation elsewhere.
Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.
Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.
I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.
Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?
Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.
3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.
Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.
Actually I remember quite clearly after the announcement of Druid that the ranger forums blew up with excitement over the new elite spec. People were going nuts with anticipation about it, both here on the forums and on in-game chats.
Edit: In fact, with the possible exception of Chrono and Daredevil, I don’t think any elite spec was as highly anticipated.
I have not seen 1 healing focused Druid in wvw or pve or fractals. I bet there are not healing focused Druids in spvp. The only place healing is used is raids because everyone stands still bashing a boss. This is a poor design.
Any druid is going to be able to heal. The thing is, there isn’t a need for a healing ONLY druid. You can bring very strong heals while buffing your party’s damage output big time, and doing alot of damage (power or condi, your choice) at the same time. So why overheal, when you can heal enough and do so much more?
Yep, Ranger got the short end of the stick on this one.
So suggestions:
1. Immediate +30% damage output on bow(long and short) across all attacks.
2. Traps should actually trap, like dragon hunter and should do more damage than theirs. We are supposed to be the masters of the wild.
3. Stealth detection and targeting ability. We’re supposed to be trackers and hunters. Our pets should aid in this. Especially dogs sense of smell and cats good hearing.
4. Sniper elite shot. Similar to mordrem snipers.
5. DPS increase, period.
I’ll say it again. The theme of our class is an adventurer type that uses the forces of nature to fight his battles. Some sort of sneaky death sniper fits the thief far better than the ranger, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they get LB on the next expansion. I like LB (love it actually), but the elite specs where about expanding the classes into new areas. Druid did that (admittedly some parts of the execution could be improved). This sniper idea that alot of people (not just you) keep talking about would just be doubling down on a weapon we already have, and turning us into thieves tbh.
My thoughts are this: My mate rolls a thief main, and he switched to Marauder gear as well. It actually helps your precision and vitality over berserker gear at a minor loss of power and ferocity, but he found he was much more survivable with that gear. Also I agree about invigorating precision, or you can use assassin’s reward or the Signet of Malice healing skill. passive heals are a thief’s best friend.
Edit: Try the traits and skills first. If that doesn’t help enough, then try the Marauder gear, but hang on to the Berserker gear, because hopefully you will eventually hit your stride on active defense and knowing how to deal with the threats in Maguuma so you can switch back to it.
That makes sense. I’m not the best at calculating uptimes, so thanks for explaining. I’m also used to pugs, so I find I’m bringing most of the might to the party and myself, even with revenants and warriors around. Take that for what you will. (Mostly in fractals and dungeons).
How does the Perma-Daze work? (possibly my last question lol)
Why do we need DH? we already have longbow and traps. It would have been highly redundant. Sure, their traps are OP, but still redundant.
The elite specs are right where they need to be. If you want an archer without the ties to nature, play a warrior or a DH. If you didn’t want something so obviously nature themed, why did you play a ranger in the first place?
Question on the DPS Healer build: Why Glyph of Unity? is it just for the CA version? I would have thought SotP would be a better option with Rapid shot on the LB and the Bristleback’s F2. Or the Spirit of Nature if you are looking for more group heal. The range of both weapons puts you outside the range of GoU as well.
Also surprised you didn’t take Windborne Notes and Verdant Etching on the Max Healer one, or two-handed training on the Daze Healer one (no greatsword, what’s the point?) but I know you have reasons.
Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. I do mostly find myself in pugs or solo as opposed to highly organized groups. The condi build will primarily be for higher level fractals where (Ive been told) the bosses tend to have escalating toughness, and condi becomes highly desired. and the occasional WB.
