Guild Wars 2

Rikimaru.7890:

Seriously why is it that Guardians constantly get crappy Elite Spec names?
“Dragonhunter” was the worst name of all the 1st Elites, as it really sounds stupid due to the fact everyone “hunts dragons” regardless of their profession.

Now worst name of 2nd Elites is probably “Weaver” as first thing you think of when you hear it is someone who makes fabrics. But “Firebrand” comes in 2nd place, I mean what does it even mean? It makes me think of a brand on a cow made with a heated iron.
And how does it even relate to the tomes? “Dragonhunter” at least does relate to the traps, as trappers are a type of hunters.
You would think “Sage” would sound much more appropriate or “Scholar”, but I know it can’t be used as the light classes are called scholar.

I mean there are plenty good names for Guardian elites – “Paladin”, “Paragon”, “Knight”, “Templar”, “Zealot”.
So why do they constantly get such abhorrent names?

Aside from the overused quality of those names as someone has already pointed out, your opinion that we got the worst elite spec name in HoT is purely subjective. It’s an opinion, not fact, and not an opinion I share. I think several of the names were pretty meh (again thanks to overuse), and the only ones close to being original were scrapper and tempest. All the others have been used to death in other games.

Of the new elites I’ve checked out, Deadeye is in my top three that I want to play, and I don’t even play thief all that much… I’m really looking forward to it. I liked Daredevil, but I can really see myself enjoying this spec….

my male reaper uses the icy encasement outfit, and my female necro that will go into scourge is in the standard Dry Bones armor, with brown leather and bone motif.

I really don’t know
whether to be proud or mad
at all of you now

Meowmageddon.1023:

Almost everyone is saying this about their preferred classes. Honestly.. it’s a preview, I’m sure they’ll make little changes but nothing huge, like scrapping it all. Everyone is like.. it just does damage scrap it. It doesn’t do this, scrap it. It’s crap, scrap it.

I honestly don’t believe any of the new specs will be better than what we have now.

I know at least two of the specs are support specs and people are trying to use them to get top tier damage, and other people had to step in and say “HEY! it’s a SUPPORT spec!!!” (Firebrand and Scourge specifically).

So I’ve been trying to figure out what they specs are good for, not what people want them to be good for. And that’s proving difficult.

Daharahj.1325:

bearshaman.3421:

martin.1653:

“mirage cloak is overall worse than a normal dodge”
Whoever agrees with this ^ should uninstall.

Not worse, but not better. just different.

It’s strictly better.

A lot of people use the dodge rolls to get out of AOEs. mirage cloak doesn’t help there.

Tried it out a bit… it makes me feel stupid. Like I feel like it has to be awesome, and I just can’t figure out how to make it work. Maybe it’s me, maybe it’s Mirage. I dunno….

Exedore.6320:

Ohoni.6057:

I’m not a huge Overwatch player, but how do you solo PvE with Mercy?

The comparison he was trying to make is that you’re not in the middle of the fight – you’re the backline.

I thought it was that you are a support healing class now not a “all the dps in your face” class.

I’m confused… are you talking about a scrapper or a holosmith?

I also agree with the OP. I do think mantras need improvement, the cone is not a good mechanic. probably stick to shouts for the time being.

I love the recent changes to guardian and firebrand in general. I feel like I will finally be able to play my guardian in the way I’ve been wanting to for years…

I will admit the 300 cone set up for the mantras is not ideal. However, an elite spec only has one required part: the traitline. And I am very happy with the traitline. The mantras not your thing? Hopefully Anet will fix them, but until then you can still use everything else. This spec is more about the Virtues anyway. I haven’t even considered using the axe tbh. Not sure how it is. But I will never unspec Firebrand.

I really wanted to like this espec. Like you have no idea. I love the idea of shapeshifting. Despite he lack of actually shifting, it’s not bad. But honestly I think this espec serves one primary purpose, maybe it’s only purpose.

Appease people who want a petless ranger.

That’s it.

Everything it can do, some other profession/spec can do better. It’s very versatile, but that means it lacks any direction or obvious purpose. This is the only thing I can see for why you would want to play this over other builds.

It’s appeasement. I hope it works. I was getting tired of all the complaint threads.

Any clue how this will work with the traits in Beastmastery and elsewhere that add effects to the F2 command?

I have the same question as you, HA. And I think that the answer (at least for now) is versatility seems to be the point. It’s a “what you make of it” spec. The pets you choose will have a lot of impact on what you can do, the dagger is available for a condi spec, but you can use whatever, and the stances offer another type of utility skill. But it does appear to lack any obvious role, and maybe that’s the point?

I feel like maintaining these with the speed at which new patches come out has to be a daunting if impossible task….

Speaking of Throw Mine and Gadgeteer… when I have that utility equipped, and I switch to Gadgeteer, it’s showing less damage for the throw mine and no other changes. Wtf?

I haven’t been able to make sense of it.

No. A lot of the stickied threads need to be unstickied. So many updates have happened since this thread has been updated.

Having leveled all the classes, mesmer was the hardest by a long shot.

Edit: recent changes to torment and confusion damage may mitigate this, but I doubt it.

This depends on what game mode you are playing as well. What condition builds work in PVP won’t work in PVE or WvW. Each has its own unique builds because the conditions you have to plan for are different.

altermaven.7385:

I highly recommend promoting mats if there’s not enough of x+1 mats you need, as well as promoting from mats you find abundantly to mats you find scarcely (often true for t3/t4 cloth/leather). Same can be said for components such as blood/totems/etc. Sometimes you can promote from a type that sells horribly to one that sells very well, to make a decent flip, but be careful with this.

Also, yes, you will need a LOT of T2/3/4/5 wood/ingot/cloth/leather if you’re making ascended gear.

I will agree with the “don’t buy all at once” mantra — it’s wiser to accrue mats over time, so you won’t feel as burned on coin, and you can check prices over the days.

Yeah I’ve started promoting any mats that aren’t used in ascended crafting. silver. gold, jute, etc…

Oh. My mistake. This is a pvp conversation. I’ll see myself out.

Fluffball.8307:

bearshaman.3421:

Interesting. I didn’t really think of weapons as being more for a particular game type. I would be curious to hear more about what weapons are more for different game types, but don’t want to hijack the thread. PM me?

It’s a valid point for the thread, since truly hybrid axe wouldn’t be that important for PvE (who cares about power even though you’re on “hybrid” viper stats? It just ups the DPS a tick.)

The answer to your query is really obvious if you’ve done any competitive. Any weapon that has things like evades, heavy CC, self sustain, heavy support, etc.

If you’re a PvEr and have ever found a weapon useless, it’s almost certainly a competitive weapon. All 4 classes’ shield, mesmer torch, thief short bow, etc. etc.

I hadn’t thought of those as competitive weapons, so much as well-rounded ones from a tactical perspective. I had noticed that some were more damage and others covered a wide range of contingencies. I suppose those can also be important to pvp. (and yes I am a pver.)

Simple. Reaper’s Shroud has stability on its #3 skill, so you already have a source for that. Might as well take the damage increase of having a lot more crits.

Now why the CONDI build isn’t using Dhuumfire, I don’t know. especially on a reaper that has a much faster AA.

Fluffball.8307:

bearshaman.3421:

Fluffball.8307:

bearshaman.3421:

Dagger also seems like an unwanted outlier, I never see anyone use it, just cuz torch is so good.

Dagger has been in the PvP meta since launch.

Wouldn’t know that, sorry. I don’t pvp. Kinda thought this was a pve convo, given that it was about axe.

Well the OP mentioned all 3 modes, and the change that inspired the thread was only for PvP. Also axe has had its fair share of the PvP and WvW metas.

At any rate, dagger doesn’t need to be useful in PvE in the same way warrior hammer doesn’t need to be useful there. Most professions have some PvP specific weapons.

(Although once upon a time dagger was used for Lupi solos.)

Interesting. I didn’t really think of weapons as being more for a particular game type. I would be curious to hear more about what weapons are more for different game types, but don’t want to hijack the thread. PM me?

Fluffball.8307:

bearshaman.3421:

Dagger also seems like an unwanted outlier, I never see anyone use it, just cuz torch is so good.

Dagger has been in the PvP meta since launch.

Wouldn’t know that, sorry. I don’t pvp. Kinda thought this was a pve convo, given that it was about axe.

The issue with raids isn’t that power isn’t viable, or necro/reaper isn’t viable, it’s that they are looking at cross class synergies to make the group better and more efficient. Necro is about the most selfish class in the game, now that venomshare is baseline for thieves. We can help with some condi management that no one else has, but for the most part since people have plenty of condi clear, and can apply conditions around just fine, the only thing we really bring to the party at that point is epidemic, and I have no idea how well that works now that it’s been changed two patches ago.

Your build will work fine in OW PVE, and in fractals. People are just really picky otherwise. If you raid with a guild of friends, you should be ok though. PUGs will likely drop you on sight though. (which is why I don’t raid. I play what I want.)

Necro and Ranger, no question. Though Necro needs minions.

Wondrouswall.7169:

That doesn’t make sense that they would base it as a hybrid off of armor stats. It was hybrid at launch when all we had were Dire, Rabid, and Carrion.

It’s a hybrid weapon, but what it needs is a run through the purity of purpose filter on ricochet so it’s a 1-handed ranged full-condition weapon.

For pete’s sake. I’d be up for a bit of self-synergy on that weapon like what Gee added to Necro’s main-hand dagger or Karl did to Thief’s shortbow.

If they could just apply the skill 2&3 damage increase to all modes and have Ricochet bleed foes for like 3s when it strikes a chilled foe, it would work really well with Winter’s Bite and make that AOE effect on Honed Axes worth more the while.

A change like that could bring back the frost Ranger build and give Frost Trap a niche use. Pets like Snow Leopard, Alpine Wolf, Frost Drake, and Polar Bear (well, maybe not since its F2 cooldown is pretty absurd) would have a use without ever being touched.

It could really add some options from multiple angles… which means it will most likely never happen. :|

(carrion is also hybrid, but that’s irrelevant really.) I agree with you that axe doesn’t have any self-synergy, and that change would be pretty good, since axe is the closest thing to a MH condi weapon (sword doesn’t cut it for me. Dagger also seems like an unwanted outlier, I never see anyone use it, just cuz torch is so good.

Yannir.4132:

bearshaman.3421:

Yannir.4132:

bearshaman.3421:

Offhand mace would be my vote. A guardian using guns doesn’t work in my head. shrug

Are you familiar with Witchhunters from the Warhammer universe or Inquisitors from the 40k side? That’s how I could/would imagine a guardian with guns.

Familiar with Inquisitors. Not analoguous to guardians in my head. I’m not sure 40K has one….

Well no, if you think guardians are like paladins. If you think of them more like a crusader, it starts to feel better as a comparison. As guardian is not the goody-two-shoes archetype but a greyer profession than that what you know from other games.

I can’t stand paladins lol. I like guardians because they are not that. To me, they are more like… a knights hospitaler with a little western monk who is focused on protecting the people, more so that than the crusading paladin archetype out to destroy the evil. That’s part of the reason why I hated DH. Now I know there’s a lot of ways to look at guardian, and those are all valid. Just giving my perspective.

I think they view it as a hybrid weapon because the Axe/Torch build uses Viper stats, not Trailblazer, Rabid, or Dire. Viper is a hybrid stat set. Condi and Power high. I’ve never seen anyone use trailblazer, rabid, or dire, unless it was for WvW.

also, Carrion and Sinister are also Hybrid sets.

Edit: should have just finished reading thread. Some of you have made my point for me already.

Yannir.4132:

bearshaman.3421:

Offhand mace would be my vote. A guardian using guns doesn’t work in my head. shrug

Are you familiar with Witchhunters from the Warhammer universe or Inquisitors from the 40k side? That’s how I could/would imagine a guardian with guns.

Familiar with Inquisitors. Not analoguous to guardians in my head. I’m not sure 40K has one….

To each their own. If you don’t like the new elite, you can still play berserker. No one is gonna force you to switch to it, and they are both elites. It’s not like your power curve is gonna go down.

Since it’s doubtful that you will be doing much group content before endgame, you may want to stick to the skills that target you or the enemy moreso than the ones that target allies. Just my two cents.

Both of you are correct on what the traitlines represent. It’s not so simple as to be just one thing for each. The traits could go either way, just depends on your perspective, so you aren’t gonna get agreement on where things should be.

At best, you can say that the traitlines should be more focused, but you still would have to agree on what that focus IS….

Crinn.7864:

Ramoth.9064:

Every class has stuff that improves their mechanics. It was explicitly designed so before the specialisation overhaul. Imagine all warriors getting burst cd reduction baseline, or returned adrenaline baseline or mesmers getting shatter cd reduction baseline… List goes on

….and literally every class runs the class mechanic traitline on almost every build because of it.

Not true. Most ranger builds do not use beastmastery, and most mesmer builds do not use illusions. Most necro builds don’t use soul reaping, and engi builds mostly don’t use tools. Sorry but this is a false argument.

starlinvf.1358:

The bigger underlying problem with the utilities is that we can’t mix and match like other classes. I’ve been using Rev on and off in PvE and only just started in WvW, and its quickly obvious that most builds tend to rely on only 1 utility in each Legend (usually the one with the highest energy cost), leaving the other 2 as purely opportunistic.

The whole reason this usually ends up being awkward is that each skill set (including weapons) exist in a vacuum, and aren’t designed to synergize internally. Part of it has to do with the Rev being considered a pure support class (back liner), but mostly its their attempts to simplify balance by designing it as presets. And more then any other class (in theory)…. Rev synergy does have the potential to compound out of control, if its force multipliers were internal instead of external.

A 3rd legend doesn’t solve the underlying issue, as its the disjointed skill/trait interactions that are causing the class to feel the way it does. What the Revs need for general PvE is for one of trait lines (likely Shiro) to gain better momentum with more enemies in the field. Mallyx in an offensive config does this through AOE; but Shiro lives in this dissonant state where his traits are clearly designed to take advantage of his attack rate to ramp up damage, but it caps out too quick to do well as single target, and his damage gets diluted quickly with multiple targets. On the one hand the cap is there purely for sPvP balance, but it leaves PvE players very few options for handling mob groups at close range without loading Mace/Axe (which means condi gear) and Mallyx for the AOE.

Shiro’s kit (Sw, Trait, and Utilities) needs something that can build up and burst med sized groups of mobs, or a trait that can turn Jade wind into a finishing move, converting vulnerability stacks into damage.

Agreed. +1

reikken.4961:

If you don’t have tempest, go staff with water and arcane, and it doesn’t really matter what your last trait line is

agreed, though if you can use earth as your 3rd to give protection to your allies, it means you can spread your healing around more, and have more time for things to come off cooldown.

Crafting guides work well if you want to quickly level your crafting like what the above poster has linked.

Tbh, I didn’t bother crafting anything until I was lvl 80. What randomly drops, plus what you get from the personal story and from leveling should get you through just fine.

I’ve seen plenty of builds that don’t use trickery, so I don’t get this thread….

Leolas.6273:

noo pls not more godkitten condi.

to each their own

Joxer.6024:

bearshaman.3421:

Joxer.6024:

Oh please just make rifle viable for condi…or a spear..I like that! Just something different from LB but keeping that range. Hell, a big ol bazooka be fun…lol.

umm… why would they change a preexisting weapon that is the long range power weapon option? That would be bad, and elite specs obviously don’t do that.

Yea, I get that…and know it wont happen. Just am hoping for options is all.

If you want a condi rifle, I’m pretty sure that’s what thief is gonna have for its next elite.

A 1200 range condi weapon would be awesome, and would fit the idea of the name Deadshot (obvious sniper reference) and as a counterpoint to Staff. We don’t have a full on condi weapon, so this would be awesome to have finally.

narcx.3570:

bearshaman.3421:

http://qtfy.enjin.com/revenant

Their raid build is a power build.

And while metabattle does have a condi build for it, the power build is rated 20 points higher.

Just FYI.

qT benchmarks condi at 4k higher than power…

http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

That 4k gap is a lot bigger in actual play too as torment deals additional damage to moving targets and anytime you have to do some boss mechanics your condi’s keep ticking, whereas power’s output drops to zero. (Also, if you’re keeping up Natural Resonance, you won’t be able to spin hammers for the entire Jalis part of the power rotation like they do in the benchmark either.)

But, qT aside…
From personal, I raid a lot experience, I can tell you that nobody is going to take you as power unless you are in a dedicated static group that is specifically building/gearing around you pulsing natural resonance. However, you CAN quite often get into a Wing 2 or 4 group as condi these days.

Also, as for metabattle… They don’t clear their ratings every time there’s a patch and a ton of the “GREAT” votes for the Jalis/Glint power raid spec are most definitely from before the natural resonance nerf took them out of the meta.

Oddly enough, condi didn’t make the list here…

http://qtfy.enjin.com/dps#Ranking

Which is where I was looking. huh…

FrownyClown.8402:

Panda.1967:

FrownyClown.8402:

Its pretty hard to be a healer without HoT since the only good healing build is with tempest.

Metabattle.com is a good source for new players

This is actually not true… It is 100% possible to make not only a viable, but an efficient Elementalist healer without Tempest. You’ll want to spec Water, Air, and choice of either Earth or Arcane. Earth for Protection, or Arcane for some extra healing in water attunement.

Scepter/Dagger is a decent combination for a Core Ele Healer… Staff is also very effective… Personally I find Scepter/Dagger more effective, though trickier to use properly.

You can slot Glyph of Greater Elementals as your elite to get some additional healing via the Ice Elemental… but it’s only going to be a minor aid… Earth Elemental with it’s AoE protection ability may prove more beneficial in the long run…

Alright have fun with your 200 radius heals that are dependent on water attunement while I spam my 400 radius ones just by using a shout and a heal.

No need to be salty about it. He’s just providing advice on how to be an effective healer without tempest. Can tempest do it better? Sure. Is it absolutely essential? Only if you plan on doing raids, and if he doesn’t have tempest, guess what else he doesn’t have?

narcx.3570:

I think both builds are quite strong in open world/fractals, but for raiding you’ll have to go condi. (Yes I know you don’t HAVE to go anything to clear raid content, but if you’re power, you are NEVER going to find a group.)

Here are the builds I use:

Condi Open World/Fractals (All Gear Vipers, Berserker Runes, Sigils of Smoldering/Geomancy/Hydromancy):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX5nn3geNSuQvJRboHlsP0kS4I6SJ4EtrkFUlxO92jPNgCSg9oniC

Power Open World/Fractals (All Gear Bersekers, Scholar Runes, Air/Force Sigils):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscmn3guNSuQ7JRboVlsP0rS4IaWJ4EdskFNFqdABoB2FMhNkdMrpNA

For Fractals, swap Hardening Persistence for Radiant Revival and Incensed Response for Equilibrium if there is a PS Warrior or Scepter Condi Ele in your group. Swap Shrio to Jalis if there’s a Chrono in your group (Power Only).

For Raids (Condi), swap Glint for Jalis, Hardening Persistence for Radiant Revival, Incensed Response for Equilibrium, and Herald Traitline for Devastation (1-3-1).

http://qtfy.enjin.com/revenant

Their raid build is a power build.

And while metabattle does have a condi build for it, the power build is rated 20 points higher.

Just FYI.

narcx.3570:

If all you’re doing is ranging with your hammer, do you really need a worthwhile heal skill?

I’ll also be using staff. I always try to have a melee and a ranged option on my characters.

Condi. Daredevil (aside from lotus training) had nothing for condi, and given pistol has condi on its AA and sneak attack, I think that’s where rifle will go too.

Edit: It will have stuff for power builds in the traitline, but the rifle will be a condi weapon.

Joxer.6024:

Oh please just make rifle viable for condi…or a spear..I like that! Just something different from LB but keeping that range. Hell, a big ol bazooka be fun…lol.

umm… why would they change a preexisting weapon that is the long range power weapon option? That would be bad, and elite specs obviously don’t do that.

Artaz.3819:

It won’t be 900 (Warrior design philosophy is up-in-your-face so weapon will be designed to do that). Don’t get any crazy ideas that you’ll be able to equip with offhand shield or warhorn…at least yet.

It will be faster attacking. Faster attacking = more adrenaline. More adrenaline = OP especially with some traits (quickness boon/additional adrenaline per related).

Yes, it’ll be far and away better like HoT power creep still subject to nerfage but ANet is gunning for “balanced” DPS across all new expansion elite specializations. I don’t have a high degree of faith here since quality balance is poor especially with a lack of understanding on burst damage/stat stacking and how non-player bonuses work (recent change adding Might boon to clones).

New elites will likely support the new condi type.

Given the range on rifle and longbow, I’m not sure how you can claim that our only range is melee. There are times when melee is better, but it is definitely not our only “philosophy”. I do think it is impossible to guess what the range will be with daggers, but regardless of that, I think it will not be a condi weapon, since berserker has that covered.